Pegasus Research Consortium

Hello Fellow Members,

I am kicking around getting a laptop and going online the old-fashioned way. I would like input from other members as to what laptop you would buy for yourself for this purpose.

All input, positive or negative, is welcome.

Thank you in advance for your contributions to this thread.

Regards,

Irene :)

Personally, i prefer Dell or Toshiba; big hard drive, usually lots of memory, wifi, the usual bells and whistles...

8)

Seeker

Toshiba will not last long...I have had these when I did field service work and only ever managed to keep one for about 5 - 6 months. Hard drives are not very good.

If you want anything reliable get a solid state hard drive option. Had good luck with Asus & HP laptops. Still have an Asus laptop that is almost 6 years old and still works.

I buy exclusively DELL...have a long standing account.

Several years ago, I bought laptops for 3 of my kids.... and one for myself....(most of my lunar videos were done on this laptop.)
Max memory is always a must, good graphics card also. I bought an XPS MODEL.

One thing did look for were plenty of USB ports....
I then bought several external drives, two, one terabyte drives and one 2 terabyte...(best idea I had)...filled them up with Lunar photos and music.

Irene, do you actually need a "laptop" in today's world?? If you do........then you do!! But today, if you want a laptop to carry around when you go places, a laptop is a pretty heavy choice relative to others options, like maybe an IPad. For me now, the online stuff I want to do when I am away from home, I use an iPad or my iPhone

For my home use, I use an Apple IMac with 27 inch display screen - I didn't really want to change to Apple, but a son gave this to me. After some learning on using it, I would never go back to a Microsoft based machine. And that 27 inch HD display is really great for watching videos and searching for Mars and Moon anomalies!! Also I do like the Apple file systems much better, and now when working on a file or editing, it does automatically save any changes:)

The Apple Air laptop is good - my wife has one. Has the same basic operating system as on my IMac. I do still prefer to use a "bluetooth mouse", even with the Apple laptop!  :) 

Quote from: rdunk on February 14, 2017, 11:25:08 PM
Irene, do you actually need a "laptop" in today's world?? If you do........then you do!! But today, if you want a laptop to carry around when you go places, a laptop is a pretty heavy choice relative to others options, like maybe an IPad. For me now, the online stuff I want to do when I am away from home, I use an iPad or my iPhone

For my home use, I use an Apple IMac with 27 inch display screen - I didn't really want to change to Apple, but a son gave this to me. After some learning on using it, I would never go back to a Microsoft based machine. And that 27 inch HD display is really great for watching videos and searching for Mars and Moon anomalies!! Also I do like the Apple file systems much better, and now when working on a file or editing, it does automatically save any changes:)

The Apple Air laptop is good - my wife has one. Has the same basic operating system as on my IMac. I do still prefer to use a "bluetooth mouse", even with the Apple laptop!  :)

I do everything on my S6. My monthly phone bill is $300+ for 40G's+.

I just read Verizon is going to offer unlimited data again, but will slow service if you burn too many G's. W T F . . .

Complete bulls**t. Just once I'd like to be treated reasonably as a consumer.

QuoteFor my home use, I use an Apple IMac with 27 inch display screen.

If you don't mind, what version OS are you running.? I thought my IMac at 9.22 was maxed out at that, and my internet provider - Windstream here in north Georgia - does not support anything Mac before 10.x    :(

Thank you.

Quote from: Ellirium113 on February 14, 2017, 10:06:55 PM
Toshiba will not last long...I have had these when I did field service work and only ever managed to keep one for about 5 - 6 months. Hard drives are not very good.

If you want anything reliable get a solid state hard drive option. Had good luck with Asus & HP laptops. Still have an Asus laptop that is almost 6 years old and still works.

My last Toshiba lasted for over six years; the case broke at the hinge when it died, but the hard drive and all the hardware is still good  8) I am using the hard drive out of it with a SATA drive as an external hd  :P

Seeker

The only laptop I bought was an old, second hand Toshiba that was completely obsolete at the time (that's why it was so cheap), as I prefer desktop systems to laptops (they allow me to change more things ;D ).

From what I have seen with the laptops used at work and from those brought by clients to repair, there aren't really better or worse brands, which is no surprise, when you see that all components are the same, made by a few companies.

Having said that, I always liked Asus, either laptops, desktops or just motherboards (some HP desktops use rebranded Asus motherboards), but the most recent Asus bought by the company where I work broke both hinges after a few months, but it keeps on working, three years after. :)

PS: I only recommend solid state drives if you don't have any problem losing the data on the hard drive, solid state drives, when they fail they fail suddenly, without warning and there's no way of recovering the data.

Quote from: the seeker on February 15, 2017, 12:24:09 AM
My last Toshiba lasted for over six years; the case broke at the hinge when it died, but the hard drive and all the hardware is still good  8) I am using the hard drive out of it with a SATA drive as an external hd  :P

Seeker

I have always had Toshibas, four of them. I bought the last one in '06, which was the only one I had a problem with, and they were known for this. The DVD aspect of the thing stopped working, although the CD-ROM aspect was unaffected. Weird.

I am partial to Toshibas, but I would like as much info as possible from those experienced with recent laptops.

Ellirium,

What is a "solid state hard drive"?

Quote from: Irene on February 15, 2017, 12:55:35 AM
What is a "solid state hard drive"?

I know I'm not Elirium, but a solid state hard drive is more or less the same as an USB drive connected inside the computer instead of a mechanical hard drive. They are much faster, silent and use less power. They are also more expensive.

Quote from: ArMaP on February 15, 2017, 12:58:55 AM
I know I'm not Elirium, but a solid state hard drive is more or less the same as an USB drive connected inside the computer instead of a mechanical hard drive. They are much faster, silent and use less power. They are also more expensive.

Thanks ArMaP.  :)

The best bet is to store everything on an external hard drive and make back up copies  8)

but that is just my opinion; I am not a computer geek  :P

Seeker

Quote from: the seeker on February 15, 2017, 01:12:33 AM
The best bet is to store everything on an external hard drive and make back up copies  8)

but that is just my opinion; I am not a computer geek  :P

At work I make copies of all important files every day. Once a week those copies are copied to another disk. At the end of the year that copy is encrypted and uploaded to a cloud storage service. :)

Quote from: the seeker on February 15, 2017, 01:12:33 AM
The best bet is to store everything on an external hard drive and make back up copies  8)

but that is just my opinion; I am not a computer geek  :P

Seeker

The only things I need to save are a few documents and personal photos, so I have everything backed up on thumbs.

I am looking at scanning the family photos though, about 6000 of them. Huge project.

Quote from: ArMaP on February 15, 2017, 12:58:55 AM
I know I'm not Elirium, but a solid state hard drive is more or less the same as an USB drive connected inside the computer instead of a mechanical hard drive. They are much faster, silent and use less power. They are also more expensive.

Right you are ArMaP, and as an added bonus you do not have to worry about file fragmentation like you do with data on conventional hard drives.

Quote from: Ellirium113 on February 15, 2017, 02:07:52 AM
Right you are ArMaP, and as an added bonus you do not have to worry about file fragmentation like you do with data on conventional hard drives.

True, but as an added problem they wear out with use, so modern Solid State Drives have software to avoid writing twice on the same place if there is space available, but even that is not enough if you have a SSD that is in constant use. Windows 10 detects SSDs and doesn't access them as frequently as traditional hard drives to help avoid problems, but that problem is there, as it's a characteristic of the way they work.

Also, as I said before, like USB drives, when they fail they fail without warning and (usually) without possibility of recovering the data.

Quote from: Ellirium113 on February 15, 2017, 02:07:52 AM
Right you are ArMaP, and as an added bonus you do not have to worry about file fragmentation like you do with data on conventional hard drives.

If you run linux then you don't get fragmentation issues with most of the file systems.

Why do people still use Windows?  Commercial sh1t!

Quote from: Pimander on February 15, 2017, 10:48:05 AM
If you run linux then you don't get fragmentation issues with most of the file systems.

Why do people still use Windows?  Commercial sh1t!

Pimander, what you aren't taking into consideration is that 99.9% of what is available to the general public over here in the US is Windows or Android or Mac unless you can afford to go after a custom built system...

8)

Seeker

You can just wipe Windows or OSx straight off the system if you want to.  Most PCs come with Windows or OSx pre-installed but with modern Linux distributions you can just install them pretty easily.

Once Linux is installed you no longer need to worry about viruses and malware and can run free open source software downloaded from the linux distributions own servers so no danger of downloading dodgy software from the internet.

I used to have a dual boot set up so I could boot into a choice of Linux or Windows.  I found Windows was just too much hassle to use and never used it after a while so don't even bother having Windows any longer.  I never pay for software unless I want to donate and have not had a malware problem or crash for years.  Completely stable system.  You can't get that from the commercial offerings which is why 95% of internet service providers run their servers on Linux.  Windows and company are just not good/stable enough and are slower.  Full stop.

People also have to buy more expensive hardware because their systems are slowed down by the bloated OSx and Windows.  It makes better sense to have a cheaper PC running a leaner operating system like linux (or BSD or other Unix like system).

The reason it used to make sense for non-teccy people to use Windows was ease of use (it used to require IT knowledge to run Linux).  That reason no longer applies.  Beginners Linux distributions are free, easy to install and as user friendly as Windows without the virus/malware worries.  I can't recommend it any higher.

Linux rules!  8)

What do I miss about Windows?  Absolutely nothing at all.  There is not a single thing I can't do now that I want to with my PC running Linux instead.

Quote from: Pimander on February 15, 2017, 10:48:05 AM
If you run linux then you don't get fragmentation issues with most of the file systems.

That's because most files systems used by Linux move the file around when they do not have enough space between the end of the file and the start of the next file, so they act as if they are defragmenting the drive while saving files. The problem with that method is that, depending on the size of the files, when a disk has more than 80% or 85% occupied the system stops being able to do the file moving and the disks do become fragmented, but, unlike in Windows, there's no direct way of defragmenting a disk in Linux (as far as I know).

Windows 10 (I don't remember if Windows 8 already did it) defragments disks automatically, so there's no need to defragment them manually.

QuoteWhy do people still use Windows?  Commercial sh1t!

Because they want to. :)

Quote from: ArMaP on February 15, 2017, 02:03:49 PM
Because they want to. :)

I forgot to mention.  the need for a virus checker to run constantly also slows the system down further on Windows.  The virus software has to constantly monitor for suspect files.

If you have a fast PC then it will be even faster with Linux.

Of course, if you want to support a slow, malware vulnerable, bloated operating system that is your business but there are good alternatives. :)

Hi Pimander,

You have to remember that not everyone is tech savvy including me. I'd be terrified to do what you've described after investing hundreds in a new computer.

I don't want a brick.  :P

I have a Toshiba that works well for me.  My previous Toshiba also worked well, right up until the cat baptized it.  My employer issued Leno of Thinkpads to the field nurses, so we can do our EMR charting.  The laptop is nice.  The EMR program, not so much.

Shasta

Quote from: Pimander on February 15, 2017, 01:23:12 PM
You can't get that from the commercial offerings which is why 95% of internet service providers run their servers on Linux.

I seriously doubt that, seeing that 29.83% of all sites in the Internet are running on Windows. :)

I just switched over to Verizon's unlimited plan. Dropped $120 off my bill with a click.

Quote from: ArMaP on February 15, 2017, 10:18:22 PM
I seriously doubt that, seeing that 29.83% of all sites in the Internet are running on Windows. :)

I meant the service provider servers.

I seriously doubt the 29.83% figure is the actual operating system of the service providers servers.  I think even Microsoft were having to use Linux technologies for their network/server services.  :P

If ISPs host Windows websites then they are most likely running Windows in containers (or virtual machines) on Linux.  It is the best way to avoid getting viruses or getting server crashes.  Windows is relatively insecure and unstable so most companies don't use it.

Linux is now bigger than Windows.  Android is Linux so most people use it unless they have an iPhone (end pay for an overpriced bit of hardware).

ETA:

QuoteLooking deeper, Linux's importance to the Web is even more extreme. By W3Cook's analysis of Alexa's data, 96.3 percent of the top 1 million web servers are running Linux. The remainder is split between Windows, 1.9 percent, and FreeBSD, 1.8 percent.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/can-the-internet-exist-without-linux/

Quote from: Shasta56 on February 15, 2017, 07:11:54 PM
I have a Toshiba that works well for me.  My previous Toshiba also worked well, right up until the cat baptized it.  My employer issued Leno of Thinkpads to the field nurses, so we can do our EMR charting.  The laptop is nice.  The EMR program, not so much.

Shasta

I've had very good luck with my Toshibas, so I think I will start researching the new ones.

Thanks much to all for assisting me with this.

Irene :)

Quote from: Pimander on February 16, 2017, 01:06:01 AM
I meant the service provider servers.

I seriously doubt the 29.83% figure is the actual operating system of the service providers servers.  I think even Microsoft were having to use Linux technologies for their network/server services.  :P

If ISPs host Windows websites then they are most likely running Windows in containers (or virtual machines) on Linux.  It is the best way to avoid getting viruses or getting server crashes.  Windows is relatively insecure and unstable so most companies don't use it.

Linux is now bigger than Windows.  Android is Linux so most people use it unless they have an iPhone (end pay for an overpriced bit of hardware).

ETA:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/can-the-internet-exist-without-linux/

I didn't know Android is Linux. The Swype part of it sucks. I can absolutely nail a word on the keypad and it will totally f**k it up.

It's frustrating because my S5 was great that way. Don't know what they changed, but it's been pissing me off for the last two years.

Quote from: Pimander on February 16, 2017, 01:06:01 AM
I seriously doubt the 29.83% figure is the actual operating system of the service providers servers.  I think even Microsoft were having to use Linux technologies for their network/server services.  :P

IIS is Windows only.

QuoteWindows is relatively insecure and unstable so most companies don't use it.

Windows is only unstable on unstable hardware. All the servers I manage, both at work and at home never give me problems and stay months without being turned off, and when that happens is usually because of lack of power.

Quote from: Irene on February 16, 2017, 01:32:51 AM
I didn't know Android is Linux. The Swype part of it sucks. I can absolutely nail a word on the keypad and it will totally f**k it up.

I find touch screen irritating too.  A keyboard is just so much more efficient and finger friendly.  A screen is meant to be viewed so it helps if your fingers are not in front of it. :)

Quote from: ArMaP on February 16, 2017, 01:42:08 AM
IIS is Windows only.
Windows is only unstable on unstable hardware. All the servers I manage, both at work and at home never give me problems and stay months without being turned off, and when that happens is usually because of lack of power.

Relatively unstable.

I'd expect on a home server or many businesses it is stable enough.  I think ISPs servers are under massive strain and if Windows is 98% uptime vs 99.9% uptime (for the sake of argument as I don't know the figures) then  Windows would be down 20 times as often.  If you are supplying businesses or internet access to consumers that is significant.

I have found that refurbished products from credible retailers or even from the factory have worked just fine for me.  In fact, I am using a refurbished computer right now.  I'm using a Dell Latitude E6400 that was hooked up to a network at a business.  Been using it for quite some time.  My tablet is a Samsung refurbished tablet bought 2 years ago and still working fine.  To each their own I guess.

Quote from: Pimander on February 16, 2017, 01:53:29 AM
I think ISPs servers are under massive strain and if Windows is 98% uptime vs 99.9% uptime (for the sake of argument as I don't know the figures) then  Windows would be down 20 times as often.

If we ignore external reasons, the 6 servers I manage have 100% uptime, the same as the Linux and Windows 7 computers I also manage at work.

Quote from: ArMaP on February 16, 2017, 09:23:26 AM
If we ignore external reasons, the 6 servers I manage have 100% uptime, the same as the Linux and Windows 7 computers I also manage at work.

What about when you update or install something?  Don't you have to reboot?  You don't in Linux (unless you have to update the kernel).

Even if Windows was as good, lean, stable and secure as Linux (which I don't believe for a second) it costs more money to do the same thing.  It is not open source either.  for me there is no contest. :P

Quote from: Pimander on February 16, 2017, 11:41:26 AM
What about when you update or install something?  Don't you have to reboot?

It depends, older versions of Windows required much more reboots after updates than modern versions. As for installs, I don't remember the last time I had to reboot a computer after an install, as most ask for that without a real need to reboot, specially those that install services.

Recent research published in the journal Archives of Environmental and Occupational Health concluded that the "Laptop is paradoxically an improper site for the use of a LTC [laptop computer], which consequently should be renamed to not induce customers towards an improper use." [emphasis added]

What lead these reseachers to reach such a seemingly drastic conclusion?

In the study referenced above and titled "Exposure to electromagnetic fields from laptop use of "laptop" computers," researchers found that electromagnetic fields (EMFs) produced by laptop computers likely induce currents within the adult body, and the bodies of developing fetuses exposed by proxy, to unsafe levels.  They found that in the laptop computers analyzed EMF values were "considerably higher than the values recommended by 2 recent guidelines for computer monitors magnetic field emissions..."

Furthermore:

When close to the body, the laptop induces currents that are within 34.2% to 49.8% ICNIRP recommendations, but not negligible, to the adult's body and to the fetus (in pregnant women). On the contrary, the power supply induces strong intracorporal electric current densities in the fetus and in the adult subject, which are respectively 182-263% and 71-483% higher than ICNIRP 98 basic restriction recommended to prevent adverse health effects.

— Archives of Environmental and Occupational Health, 2012 Jan; 67(1): 31-6
The fact that laptop computers may have adverse health effects was confirmed late last year (Nov. 2011) in the journal Fertility and Sterility, which we reported on in this article.  In summary, researchers discovered that laptops connected to the internet through Wi-Fi decrease human sperm motility and increase sperm DNA fragmentation. This was the first human clinical study of its kind to establish that laptop-associated radiation can cause substantial harm to male fertility.

Read More at Source  Why Laptops Should Be Renamed To Protect Consumers (http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/laptops-should-renamed-protect-consumers/)


Laptop radiation dangers may be greater than you realize. (http://www.earthcalm.com/is-your-laptop-dangerous)

If you use your computer for many hours a day, this may be the greatest source of electromagnetic radiation danger you're exposing yourself to, even with all the other sources of radiation in the environment today.

But if your computer is a laptop—or a tablet—you're facing even more complex dangers. Especially if you use it on your lap.

Ironically, laptops are not safe on lap tops.

Although the results of studies about electromagnetic radiation danger from computers are controversial, there is abundant research concluding that laptops are particularly dangerous, especially when used on the lap.

If you look in the small print of your laptop user's manual, you will probably find wording something to this effect: "Warning: Do not place on lap." If a user's manual actually indicates a warning like this, you know this is something you need to pay attention to. And if you research the subject, you'll find that the FCC report regarding safety from EMFs back in 1996 states that a laptop needs to be placed at least 20 cm from the body (about 8 inches).

Additionally, the 1996 FCC regulations were only measuring thermal dangers of laptops (which are serious enough in themselves). However, what most researchers are concerned about these days are the non-thermal hazards of laptops—the long-term effects on the immune system and the links being drawn between laptop radiation and serious conditions and diseases.

(much more at link)

It is just and right that we sue.

Quote from: thorfourwinds on June 25, 2017, 10:47:29 PM

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/Dell_Escher-Laptop--22427.jpg)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on June 25, 2017, 10:47:29 PM
In the study referenced above and titled "Exposure to electromagnetic fields from laptop use of "laptop" computers," researchers found that electromagnetic fields (EMFs) produced by laptop computers likely induce currents within the adult body, and the bodies of developing fetuses exposed by proxy, to unsafe levels.  They found that in the laptop computers analyzed EMF values were "considerably higher than the values recommended by 2 recent guidelines for computer monitors magnetic field emissions..."

Seeing that most modern monitors, both in laptops and desktop computers, use a different system (LEDs instead of LCDs with fluorescent lamps), I suppose we need some new studies.

Quote from: rdunk on February 14, 2017, 11:25:08 PM
Irene, do you actually need a "laptop" in today's world??

There are those of us, rdunk, who do not consider today's world an improvement over yesterday's.

I am probably the only person here who does not think in terms of corporate brand names, Irene.  I have been using a computer for thirty years.  Aside from the monitor, I know how to assemble a very capable and still man portable (http://www.thermaltake.com.au/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002373) computer from parts, for a price within the region of $600 AUD.  My current computer is a laptop, but truthfully I would prefer to replace it with one with that case.  I do not use a mobile phone, as I consider them a means of enslavement masquerading as a form of technology.

In order to buy any computer, including a pre-built laptop, however, it is important to have some idea both of your intended uses of the machine, and the amount of money that you can spend.  If you can give me some idea of those considerations, then I may be able to help you find something appropriate.

While I will admit that I wouldn't normally buy from Dell myself, this example (http://www.dell.com/business/p/inspiron-15-5567-laptop/pd?oc=z510852au&model_id=inspiron-15-5567-laptop) may be suitable for you.  It contains a medium grade current generation processor, and its' other specifications are adequate for non-gaming use.  It comes with Windows 10, which you will most likely find acceptable, although I would not.

EDIT:-  On reading Thor's recent post, I again feel vindicated in my own pattern of computer use.  I have consistently observed that the more mainstream and supposedly advanced computer technology has become, the more dangerous and degenerate in overall terms it has also.  The safety of radiation from mobile phones is still questioned in some circles; and I never noticed a degradation in my eyesight until I moved from CRT to LCD monitors.

Quote from: petrus4 on June 26, 2017, 01:01:56 PM
The safety of radiation from mobile phones is still questioned in some circles; and I never noticed a degradation in my eyesight until I moved from CRT to LCD monitors.

But you got older too, so who's to blame? ;)

I didn't notice any difference when I moved from CRT to LCD, and I spend some 12 hours or more each day looking at a monitor.