Okay, you're a man and you want to be a woman. Fine, but don't expect your employer or the taxpayers to foot the bill.
Here in America's Dairyland, two men who want to be women are suing the State because the State, their employer, has refused to pay for their sex-change surgery.
My taxes are already ridiculous. I sure as hell don't want to pay the bill for elective surgery of this nature. If people want this kind of surgery they should pay the bill out of their own pockets.
Where does the crazy end?!
QuoteTwo transgender University of Wisconsin employees sued state entities Friday in federal court over their refusal to pay for their gender transition surgeries.
The two employees sued the UW System, the Board of Regents, insurers and others with the assistance of the national and Wisconsin arms of the American Civil Liberties Union.
"As a result of (state policies), plaintiffs' health insurance plans single out transgender employees for unequal treatment by categorically . . . depriving them of all medical care for gender dysphoria, a serious medical condition codified in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and International Classification of Diseases," attorneys wrote in the lawsuit filed in federal court in Madison.
A spokesman for Gov. Scott Walker stood by how the state has handled the issue.
"We believe the policy adopted by the (state) is a reasonable measure that protects taxpayers from funding sex changes for state employees and complies with both state and federal law," Walker spokesman Tom Evenson said by email.
The state has long declined to cover gender transition surgery. It was poised to change course last year, but stuck by the ban after Attorney General Brad Schimel's office urged the state to keep it in place, according to the lawsuit.
The lawsuit was brought by two employees who were born male but have long identified as female.
Shannon Andrews is a UW School of Medicine research assistant who paid for her gender transition surgery out of her own pocket. Alina Boyden is a UW-Madison graduate student and teaching assistant in anthropology who has foregone treatment because her state insurance plan will not cover it.
"Many people can relate to paying into an insurance plan only to be told that the treatment they need is not covered," Andrews said in a statement. "But when the reason you are denied coverage is because of who you are, it is even more painful. And it's clearly discrimination."
Source . . . (http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2017/04/07/transgender-employees-sue-wisconsin-uw-system/100184164/)
Within the new context of gender fluidity, I was wondering if I could self-identify as a lesbian with a penis?
Quote from: Eighthman on April 12, 2017, 09:07:14 PM
Within the new context of gender fluidity, I was wondering if I could self-identify as a lesbian with a penis?
;D
If what they have is a recognised "mental disorder" then I think the treatment should be paid like other in the same circumstances.
Quote from: ArMaP on April 13, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
If what they have is a recognised "mental disorder" then I think the treatment should be paid like other in the same circumstances.
You say the most insane things. Portugal must be a very unusual place to live.
If they're mentally ill they're not thinking straight. They should be counseled, medicated, and prevented from mutilating their bodies.
I wish Richard Feynman was still alive. I liked his dismissal of psychology as pseudoscience. Too much stuff not repeatable.
So, there are people who obsess that an arm or a leg isn't part of them and may try to cut it off. They may be treated as delusional or OCD.
If we substitute one's male member, somehow that's different - and sane(?) - rather than an illness. And this often after most of a lifetime of protecting it from errant softballs. Yeah, that makes sense (not)
Quote from: Irene on April 13, 2017, 12:41:20 AM
You say the most insane things. Portugal must be a very unusual place to live.
My opinions represent what I think, not what the whole country thinks, obviously. :)
And I don't see how applying the same rules to people in the same circumstances is insane.
QuoteIf they're mentally ill they're not thinking straight.
I suppose that's true, although some mental disorders do not affect people's reasoning.
QuoteThey should be counseled, medicated, and prevented from mutilating their bodies.
If this is a medical condition then a doctor is the right person to say what the treatment should be, including surgery. If someone suffers from a strong distress about something and the treatment is surgery, then why shouldn't the same apply to someone that is strongly distressed about their own sex?
PS: I'm not saying that the state should pay the sex change, I'm saying that the state should pay the treatment, whatever that may be, if that's what it does to other patients suffering from an equivalent mental disorder. Giving people a different treatment because they complain about their sex is not, in my opinion, fair.
Quote from: Eighthman on April 13, 2017, 12:58:02 AM
So, there are people who obsess that an arm or a leg isn't part of them and may try to cut it off. They may be treated as delusional or OCD.
If we substitute one's male member, somehow that's different - and sane(?) - rather than an illness.
That's not what I understood of what they say, I understood it as not being different, as also being an illness, and that's why they are entitled to the treatment.
One has to wonder what would be the result if these people had been raised in an environment sanitized of the current social climate.
::)
Quote from: ArMaP on April 13, 2017, 01:19:26 AM
That's not what I understood of what they say, I understood it as not being different, as also being an illness, and that's why they are entitled to the treatment.
Not on my dime. 8)
Quote from: ArMaP on April 13, 2017, 01:14:30 AM
Giving people a different treatment because they complain about their sex is not, in my opinion, fair.
As My father, a wise and wonderful man, said to Me often, when I would wail, "That's not fair!"
"There's no such thing as fair."
So true, I thought I knew some people and they ripped me off.
No such thing as fair, no.
What these people "say" is barely relevant, it's all about what they feel about body parts - and their removal thereafter. The medical profession no longer has the balls to stand up against forms of self mutilation.
If the above is true, then it is reasonable that we should witness a trend in society towards the acceptance of fantasy in ordinary life instead of reality - and what do we see?
"Alternative facts", Fake news, rejection of election results on no evidence whatsoever, emotional public protests with no issue focus, laughable efforts to 're-define' gender based on whims, rejection of economic responsibility, feelings that a nation is somehow invincible, rejection of evidence based science in favor of politicized 'truths'......
Need I go on?
Quote from: Irene on April 13, 2017, 02:28:14 AM
One has to wonder what would be the result if these people had been raised in an environment sanitized of the current social climate.
::)
Like a few years ago, for example.
PS: one thing we don't usually see on the news is the number of people that have surgery to change to the other sex and then change their mind and want to go back to the original. They also have a high percentage of suicide attempts after changing sex, so things are not as "rosy" as they present it.
i thought this happening was very timely
acceptance seems to be winning..hurray for humanity.. a bright spot
http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/jeff-probst-reacts-to-survivor-outing-you-just-dont-do-that-to-someone/ar-BBzMYDp?li=BBnb7Kz
Jeff Probst Reacts to 'Survivor' Outing: 'You Just Don't Do That to Someone' 14 / 23
ETOnline ETOnline
Zach Seemayer
5 hrs ago
'Survivor' Castaway outed on national TV by fellow player
NowThis News 'Survivor' Contestant Zeke Smith Outed as Transgender by Fellow Castaway Jeff Varner
Jeff Probst is opening up about his reaction to Survivor castaway Jeff Varner outting fellow tribe member Zeke Smith as transgender during the tribal council on Wednesday's episode of Game Changers.
"In 34 seasons of Survivor, I have rarely, if ever, personally commented on what is said or done in the game. But this is a unique situation that falls outside the normal boundaries," Probst told Entertainment Weekly on Wednesday. "I cannot imagine anyone thinking what was done to Zeke was okay on any level, under any circumstances, and certainly not simply because there was a million dollars on the line."
During the controversial tribal council, Varner -- who had previously admitted that he had a feeling he was going to be sent home -- made a last-ditch effort to save himself by revealing Smith was transgender.
The attempt backfired almost immediately, with most of the tribal council reacting in outrage and disgust at Varner's actions. He tried to defend himself, protesting, "I argue for the rights of transgender people every day" and saying that he would "never say or do anything to hurt anyone here," but was ultimately sent home unanimously by his tribe.
"I think the response from the tribe, as it so often does, mirrors what the vast majority of society will feel," Probst shared. "[Which is], you just don't do that to someone."
While Probst has seen a lot in his tenure on the long-running CBS reality competition series, the 55-year-old host said the moment left him reeling and in a state of shock.
"I wasn't certain I heard what I heard. My brain had to rewind and play it back," Probst recalled. "It was one of the most surreal moments I've ever encountered on the show. From the outside, it looked and sounded like a regular tribal council, but in reality, it was one of the most raw and painful studies of human behavior that has ever happened on Survivor."
Following the tribe's decision, a still-shaken Smith left Varner with a hug, and said that he hoped the incident would be a learning experience that could "lead to a greater good." Probst admitted that he was "blown away by how he handled the entire situation."
"[I was] very impressed with the compassion Zeke showed Varner," he said. "I found his ability to still find some level of humanity for someone who had just injured him so severely, maybe his crowning moment."
While his fellow castaways didn't know that Smith was transgender, Probst said he was told before filming Survivor: Millennials vs. Gen X, the 33rd season of the show which Smith also competed in.
"We agreed that if his story was to be told, he would be the one to decide when, where, and how," he said. "As for someone else bringing it up, Zeke was fully aware someone might suspect it or bring it up and he said, 'I will deal with it as it arises.'"
Probst said he's also spoken with Varner following the incident, and explained, "I do believe he wishes he could take the entire event back."
"I hope Varner is able to take this moment and turn it into something positive," he said. "People make mistakes. Granted this happens to be a pretty severe one, but as you saw even with Zeke --- there is hope that something good can come from this."
Survivor: Game Changers airs Wednesdays at 8 p.m. ET/PT on CBS. Check back to ETonline on Thursday to see our interview with Varner.
...........................
'Survivor' Contestant Outed As Transgender During Shocking Tribal Council
"I think he hoped others would believe that trans people are dangerous and fraudulent," Zeke Smith said.
By Noah Michelson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrT06dQ5Xlc
Note: This story contains spoilers.
"Survivor" contestants have a reputation for double-crossing one another, but one competitor hit a new low when he outed a fellow player as transgender on Wednesday night's episode.
Jeff Varner told his tribe ― and the rest of the world ― that Zeke Smith is transgender during a shocking tribal council in the beloved reality TV show's 34th season.
According to EOnline.com, Varner admitted to "Survivor: Game Changers" host Jeff Probst "that he felt he was going home," and then proceeded to out Smith in an attempt to paint him as untrustworthy and perhaps inspire other contestants to switch their votes.
"There is deception here. Deceptions on levels, Jeff, that these guys don't even understand," Varner said. "Why haven't you told anyone that you're transgender?"
Smith, who identified as a gay man in both seasons he's appeared on "Survivor," but who had not come out as trans, was blindsided by Varner's comments.
"I think he hoped others would believe that trans people are dangerous and fraudulent," Smith told People magazine. "That reasoning is infinitely worse than him outing me because it's the same one used to discriminate against, attack and murder trans people. What's great is that nobody bought it."
In fact, several of Smith's team members were outraged by Varner's disclosure, according to The Hollywood Reporter.
"You didn't have to do that," Andrea Boehlke said. Tai Trang added: "Nobody has the right to out anybody."
Varner attempted to clarify his position, claiming he's an ally of the transgender community.
"I argue for the rights of transgender people every day in the state of North Carolina," Varner said. "I would never say or do anything to hurt anyone here. Jeff, I'm arguing for my life. I feel like I've got to throw everything at the wall."
But even after apologizing for outing Smith, Varner was voted off the show.
Smith, a 29-year-old asset manager from Brooklyn, New York, said he never wanted his trans identity to play a part in how he was seen or treated during the competition.
"I didn't want to be the 'first transgender 'Survivor' contestant,'" he told People. "I'm not ashamed of being trans, but I didn't want that to be my story," he said. "I just wanted to go out on an adventure and play a great game. I just wanted to be known for my game."
He added: "It's important people see he lost that fight. The message should be clear that hate will always lose."
Nick Adams, director of GLAAD's Transgender Media Program, spoke out about the disturbing moment in a press release posted on the organization's website minutes after the episode aired.
"Zeke Smith, and transgender people like him, are not deceiving anyone by being their authentic selves, and it is dangerous and unacceptable to out a transgender person," Adams said. "It is heartening, however, to see the strong support for Zeke from the other people in his tribe. Moments like this prove that when people from all walks of life get to know a transgender person, they accept us for who we are."
The organization also noted that its "Transgender Media Program worked with Zeke Smith and CBS for several months to ensure that when the episode aired Zeke would have the opportunity to speak for himself about his experience."
From what I understand, elective surgery is not usually covered by insurance, and that these particular cases would be considered elective surgery. I've read that individuals wanting gender reassignment surgery are required to meet very stringent criteria, before such surgery will be performed.
I see a different scenario in the case of intersexed children who are born with ambiguous genitalia, and arbitrarily assigned a gender by their parents and doctors. If that assigned gender doesn't fit them when they're grown, I think a case could be made for requiring insurance to pay for fixing a trauma that was done to them when they were too young to consent.
Shasta.