Pegasus Research Consortium

a}  Suspect was a customary "lone nut."

From memory, the traditional scenario is that early witnesses and media reports will mention multiple shooters, but once the site has been secured, the story reverts to the "lone nut," claim.  I wasn't paying attention early on this time, so someone else will need to confirm or deny that in this case.

b}  Suspect has large cache of weapons on-site; police supposedly found weapons and explosives at the Sandy Hook shooter's residence.  Suspects being depicted as amateur weapons experts with stockpiles has become somewhat traditional for these incidents, I've noticed.

c}  Photos of isolated bodies are on Google Images, but I'm not seeing the large number of corpses that I would expect from the numbers cited.

d}  Suspect's age is unusually high; 64.  I can't remember an earlier shooter being much older than 35.

e}  Suspect was apparently shot by police in his room, although the first account I read said that he was already dead when the police found him.

Although it's probably still a bit early, so far it looks like a fairly standard false flag.  About the only two details that stand out to me, are the shooter's age, and the fact that they apparently aren't attributing this one to terrorism.  They seem to be claiming that he was a local resident who acted alone.

I will be interested to see how Trump uses this, and what the political and legal consequences will be.  I'm assuming there will be massively increased pressure on the second amendment, with the usual suspects among the Leftist media in support of it.

According to Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-02/who-was-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-and-what-was-his-motive), there were initial reports of multiple shooters before the story was changed to the "lone nut" narrative...as usual.

James Holmes was an amateur with a stockpile.  He even had body armor.  He also rigged his apartment to blow up.  The Columbine shooters were high school students. They had explosives. This stuff happens. 

Shasta

Quote from: Shasta56 on October 02, 2017, 04:57:40 PM
He also rigged his apartment to blow up.

Why though, Shasta?  That's the question.  Did he "just snap?"  Is everyone who carries out one of these incidents a "lone nut" who "just snaps?"

"Just snapping," is not an explanation.  It's specifically avoiding an explanation.  Even if the government is not involved, we still need to figure out why people "just snap," so that we can prevent the usual loss of life from occurring when the next person does.

A doctor at University Hospital had a file on James Holmes.  She knew he was mentally unstable and dangerous.  She chose to hide behind doctor/patient confidentiality.  That rule doesn't apply when someone poses a threat to self or others.  The Columbine shooters had a history of being bullied for being different.  I can only address the stuff that I happened in my realm and affected me directly.  I have insufficient knowledge in the other cases.

Shasta

Quote from: Shasta56 on October 02, 2017, 05:24:31 PM
I can only address the stuff that I happened in my realm and affected me directly.  I have insufficient knowledge in the other cases.

Shasta

I apologise if it sounded as though I was attacking you.  That was not my intention.

More information in the below image.

(https://i.redditmedia.com/bGUqwfv1db10uhWjIoXDxhjL8pP0TiVYVSkouTKI5eU.png?w=592&s=a3eee3461737694eaf00f9dcefdad018)

I watched the news early in the morning about 7 am iin the UK and it said 1 or 2 had been killed ..24 wounded of which 12 were in serious condition..

yet I did think surely hearing all the firing, that there must have been many more people hit...or badly injured.

I check the internet 12 hours later and now it says 58 killed.

Unbelievable  & horendous. !   :o

There was also rumors of other shootings at other L.V hotels around the same time.. but I think that was just social media suggestions.

Hope "Z" or any other members were not at the hotel concert event at the time.

I doubt John would attend but his Family may have..

Im not sure IF "Z" would attend such events or how far away from the hotel any of them live from it distance wise..But I dont think they are on the South side of Vegas..

Las Vegas shooting: Gunman who killed 58 had 'at least eight guns in hotel room'

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/las-vegas-shooting-least-two-dead-gunman-opens-fire-hotel-balcony-near-casino-065154574.html

I think I'm just touchy about shootings.  I was working at the hospital where some of the Columbine victims up, James Holmes did his dirty work in my wheelhouse, and I stayed at Mandalay Bay last year.  Exactly one floor above where the shooter was.  We had the suite on the 33rd floor.  Quite a spectacular view.  And I was in a drive by shooting back in 1993.  Didn't get hit, but I certainly wasn't happy about it.  And Denver Police tried to blow it off as fireworks. 

Shasta

There have been bigger shootings after Columbine. Columbine had 15 dead (including the shooters), but since then they had the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting (33 dead, including the shooter), the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting (28, including the shooter), the 2015 San Bernardino shooting (16 dead including the shooters) and the Orlando nightclub shooting (50 dead including the shooter).

Quote from: petrus4 on October 02, 2017, 03:17:53 PM
a}  Suspect was a customary "lone nut."

From memory, the traditional scenario is that early witnesses and media reports will mention multiple shooters, but once the site has been secured, the story reverts to the "lone nut," claim.  I wasn't paying attention early on this time, so someone else will need to confirm or deny that in this case.

Some people said there was more than one shooter, but the sound in the videos I saw sounded like just one gun. Typically, this type of action is done by just one person, not only in the US but all around the world.

Quoteb}  Suspect has large cache of weapons on-site; police supposedly found weapons and explosives at the Sandy Hook shooter's residence.  Suspects being depicted as amateur weapons experts with stockpiles has become somewhat traditional for these incidents, I've noticed.

If you are going to shoot lots of people are you going armed with just one gun? That wouldn't make much sense, although the Virginia Tech shooter had only two pistols and was not an amateur weapons expert.
In this Las Vegas case the brother of the suspect said he was not a "gun guy".

Quotec}  Photos of isolated bodies are on Google Images, but I'm not seeing the large number of corpses that I would expect from the numbers cited.

58 people on an area close to 15000 square metres gives an average of more than 250 square metres for each body, so I'm not surprised. I would be surprised if the bodies were all close to each other.

Quoted}  Suspect's age is unusually high; 64.  I can't remember an earlier shooter being much older than 35.

True, the Columbine shooters were 17 and 18 years old, the Virginia Tech shooter was 23 years old, the Sandy Hook shooter was 20 years old, the San Bernardino shooters were 28 and 29 years old and the Orlando nightclub shooter was 29 years old.

In a less famous and with "only" 10 deaths (including the shooter) case, the Red Lake shootings, the shooter was only 16 years old, and a member of ATS, the reason why I always remember that case.

Quotee}  Suspect was apparently shot by police in his room, although the first account I read said that he was already dead when the police found him.

It looks like he killed himself before the police arrived at his room.

QuoteAlthough it's probably still a bit early, so far it looks like a fairly standard false flag.  About the only two details that stand out to me, are the shooter's age, and the fact that they apparently aren't attributing this one to terrorism.  They seem to be claiming that he was a local resident who acted alone.

It's common for cases like this to be the action of an isolated person. Sometimes it's just because they "don't like Mondays", like in the 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting, the case that inspired Bob Geldof to write "I don't like Mondays".

QuoteI will be interested to see how Trump uses this, and what the political and legal consequences will be.  I'm assuming there will be massively increased pressure on the second amendment, with the usual suspects among the Leftist media in support of it.

Well, if this had happened last year, people would be saying that Obama was trying to "get their guns", so I'm interested to see what people say this time. :)

10/02/2017 01:56 pm ET
It's Completely Legal To Walk Around Las Vegas With A Machine Gun
Nevada's lax gun laws are pretty much the norm in the U.S.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nevada-gun-laws_us_59d235e4e4b06791bb11d6b8?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

...............................................................

0/02/2017 06:38 am ET Updated 58 minutes ago
Here's What We Know About Stephen Paddock, The Las Vegas Shooting Suspect
Police said the "sole aggressor" of the mass shooting killed himself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock_us_59d1fec6e4b09538b5093cbf?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

The gunman who police said sprayed bullets into a crowd of people at a country music festival in Las Vegas was an avid gambler who lived in an upscale retirement community about 80 miles outside the city.

Stephen Craig Paddock, 64, opened fire from his hotel room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino around 10:15 p.m. on Sunday, during a performance by Jason Aldean at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, authorities said. At least 59 people were killed, making it the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history. At least 527 others were injured.

A SWAT team blew open the entry to Paddock's hotel room with an explosive and found him dead, police said. The hotel was across the street from the outdoor venue.
<>
Authorities seized at least one full-automatic rifle and as many as 19 other firearms from the room, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing an unnamed law enforcement official. The cache included AR-15-style and AK-47-style rifles and a large amount of ammunition. Sources also told The New York Times that at least 20 firearms were discovered in the hotel room.

<>
Stephen Paddock gambled more than $10,000 a day numerous times in recent weeks at Las Vegas casinos, according to NBC News, which cited a casino executive and a source who had seen reports to the government on cash transactions. Some of Paddock's transactions topped $30,000, NBC said. It was unclear whether Paddock was a winner or loser, according to the network.

Paddock had no history of criminality that would raise red flags, police said.

<>

Stephen Paddock sold a house he owned in Melbourne, Florida, in 2015, the Sentinel noted, but it wasn't clear whether he lived there.

Paddock bought his current residence in Mesquite in 2015, according to USA Today. The Sun City Mesquite senior complex features 1,400 homes, an 18-hole golf course, swimming pools and a recreation center.

Paddock owned two airplanes and had a private pilot's license, according to public records.

A former Florida neighbor said Paddock described himself as a professional gambler and was "very trusting," the Palm Beach Post reported. Don Judy recalled how Paddock handed him a house key on their first meeting in 2013, asking him to check on his home and welcoming him to use any new equipment inside.

<>

Authorities said they didn't know what motivated the shooter.

ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack, but a law enforcement spokesman said in a press conference there is no indication of that.

The Paddock family reportedly has a notorious history. The Paddocks' father was a bank robber who made the FBI's Most Wanted List, Eric Paddock told outlets.


.....................................

Gun Stocks Climb After Las Vegas Shooting
Heightened fear after mass shootings often leads to more gun sales.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gun-stocks-climb-after-las-vegas-shooting_us_59d24477e4b06791bb11f178?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009






i don't know or want to know how much more messed up humans can get

Quote from: ArMaP on October 02, 2017, 11:58:57 PM
True, the Columbine shooters were 17 and 18 years old, the Virginia Tech shooter was 23 years old, the Sandy Hook shooter was 20 years old, the San Bernardino shooters were 28 and 29 years old and the Orlando nightclub shooter was 29 years old.

And the Batman movie killer was 25 -

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2238381.1432810925!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/james-holmes.jpg)

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/las-vegas-shooting-queensland-eyewitness-to-mandalay-attack/news-story/17c907f4046f30ccfedf831e27e93cc8

An Australian man at the scene claims to have witnessed multiple shooters.

In the interests of rational objectivity, I will say this:  If Steven Paddock is proven to have been the only shooter, then I will be more inclined to take the authorities at their word; but if accounts of multiple shooters continue to appear, and the police either deny those or refuse to comment on them, then I will remain suspicious about the possibility of a false flag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpcqS6ZiCuw

Here is a video in support of the two shooters theory as well.

pets r us

i'm not ruling out false flag just tossing this in

right after this, i saw about 4 different reports..one even said there were 4 shooters one dead, one in custody and two in the wind
then, the two shooters  and then a few more about who it was....

my kinda point is that immediately after something like this happens there is always someone in a rush to file their story and be first..
so before i make a judgement i  wait and see
reports from those who were there
but also knowing in the heat of horror there are also many perceptions and contradictions

with that many humans at the scene i'm sure the stories will be many and varied..so what to believe is fluid and changing
just my opinion, of course

from the news as always it's believe it or don't



The gunman who unleashed hundreds of rounds of gunfire on a crowd of concertgoers in Las Vegas had two "bump-stocks" that could have converted semi-automatic firearms into fully automatic ones, officials said.

The devices have attracted scrutiny in recent years from authorities.

<>

"This replacement shoulder stock turns a semi-automatic rifle into a weapon that can fire at a rate of 400 to 800 rounds per minute," she said.

A semi-automatic weapon requires one trigger pull for each round fired. With a fully automatic firearm, one trigger pull can unleash continuous rounds until the magazine is empty.

<>

Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock had 23 guns in his hotel room.

Two officials familiar with the investigation told the AP that Paddock had two bump stocks. They are investigating whether those stocks were used to modify weapons used in the massacre, according to the officials, who were briefed by law enforcement and spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still unfolding

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/las-vegas-gunman-used-bump-stock-device-to-speed-fire/ar-AAsQ32O?li=BBnb7Kz



.................................





But what may have seemed like a difficult feat, firing across an urban area and into a crowd from about 500 yards away — the equivalent of several football fields — appears to have been offset by Paddock's preparations, which made it possible for him to inflict mass carnage.

Law enforcement officials cautioned that their information remained preliminary amid a rapidly unfolding investigation, and it was at times contradictory. But officials said Paddock established firing positions by smashing a pair of windows in his hotel room. He was armed with at least 23 firearms, authorities said, including rifles designed to be fired at such distances. He was also perched from a vantage point that increased the likelihood that even errant shots were more likely to strike someone than had he fired them from ground level.

<>

These preparations, along with the downward angle of Paddock's gunfire and the density of concertgoers, would make the shooting more lethal than it might otherwise have been, and more difficult to counter or escape.

<>

Audio recordings of the shooting suggest that at least one of Paddock's weapons fired automatically, discharging multiple bullets with a single depression of a trigger, in what are commonly called bursts.

<>

n some videos of the shooting, the rate of fire sounds inconsistent, at times sputtering.

This suggests the possibility that a weapon could have been modified to fire more quickly, a change to semi-automatic firearms known as bump or slide fire. Such modifications harness the recoil to allow for rapid fire.

The Boston GlobeBy C.J. Chivers, Thomas Gibbons-Neff and Adam Goldman
9 hrs agohttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-thoroughly-prepared-for-massacre/ar-AAsPWSh?li=BBnb7Kz



..................................................................



Authorities described a level of preparation that suggested the attack was planned in advance. Police said Paddock arrived on Thursday, three days before the shooting, at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino on the southern end of the Las Vegas Strip. He took more than 10 suitcases into his suite, officials said.

Paddock aroused no suspicion from hotel staff even as he brought in 23 guns, some of them with scopes. One of the weapons he apparently used in the attack was an AK-47 type rifle, with a stand used to steady it for firing, people familiar with the case said.

<>

Investigators also found at least 19 additional firearms, thousands of rounds of ammunition and the chemical tannerite, an explosive, at Paddock's home in Mesquite, Nev. They also found ammonium nitrate, a chemical that can be used in bombmaking, in Paddock's vehicle, Lombardo said.

The Washington PostTim Craig, Mark Berman, Matt Zapotosky
1 hr agohttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaking-news/as-las-vegas-grieves-investigators-struggle-to-uncover-motive-behind-shooting-rampage/ar-AAsQwtT

Quote from: space otter on October 03, 2017, 04:37:23 PM
pets r us

i'm not ruling out false flag just tossing this in

I'm not saying it definitely is a false flag, either.  All I am really saying is that there seem to be some parallels between this incident and earlier ones.

I also may not be an American, but I am a passionate advocate of the right to bear arms; and that is because I've experienced home invasion and a couple of other scenarios where my life was threatened.  I also believe, on an instinctive basis, that all forms of either political or economic authority should be assumed to be both predatory and psychopathic, until explicitly proven otherwise.

It's easy to support gun control when you have never needed to defend yourself.

I am a civilian, a coward, and a hypocrite.  I acknowledge it and do not try to hide it.  I know, however, what the right thing is, even if I do not always have sufficient backbone to do it myself.

Full Police Audio that night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oHkWdJ1_jc

:'( :'(

(https://i.redditmedia.com/APqSP5kwZcPjXItWrQ5466m4mrQpwhjG6CU5Gm9yJfk.jpg?w=432&s=b839930e01e4aeab9f1e0d1546edbe22)

More testimony about multiple shooters.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 03, 2017, 03:01:08 PM
An Australian man at the scene claims to have witnessed multiple shooters.

No, he said that there were multiple shooters, he didn't say he witnessed multiple shooters. Also, his report is a little strange, as he says that he "got outside safely" and then hid in some bushes, so he was safe inside the hotel and then went outside, where the shooting was happening? ???

QuoteIn the interests of rational objectivity, I will say this:  If Steven Paddock is proven to have been the only shooter, then I will be more inclined to take the authorities at their word; but if accounts of multiple shooters continue to appear, and the police either deny those or refuse to comment on them, then I will remain suspicious about the possibility of a false flag.

You are not being unbiased, as you are comparing "proof" that Steven Paddock was the only shooter with "accounts" of multiple shooters, and those are not the same thing.

Also, what kind of proof can someone show that there was only one shooter? One person in the room? Not proof. Shots only at one place at a time? No proof, they could be more than one and not shooting at the same time.

Quote from: ArMaP on October 03, 2017, 08:52:23 PM
Also, what kind of proof can someone show that there was only one shooter? One person in the room? Not proof. Shots only at one place at a time? No proof, they could be more than one and not shooting at the same time.

I gave you gold for this.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 03, 2017, 08:45:31 PM
More testimony about multiple shooters.

In at least two instances, people that were reported as being armed near the area were not related to the shooting, one of them had only a BB gun.

I haven't seen any clear evidence that there were more shooters.

Is there clear evidence that there was just the one shooter ?


/// @Petrus, can you ping me a link to the Alexis A image if you have one please ??

thanks,

Fans'

Quote from: fansongecho on October 03, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
/// @Petrus, can you ping me a link to the Alexis A image if you have one please ??

I'm searching Facebook.  There are at least half a dozen accounts with that username, and although two are similar, neither of them have the profile photo which that image did.  Knowing Facebook however, I wouldn't be surprised if they deleted the account in response to what she posted there.  I will try a Google image search as well.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 03, 2017, 09:30:23 PM
I'm searching Facebook.  There are at least half a dozen accounts with that username, and although two are similar, neither of them have the profile photo which that image did.

This one?
Alexis Alcocer (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005147949469)

Where are all the thousands of shell casings if this is the room that the guy was firing from ?  ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6l-D5qL4Us

Quote from: fansongecho on October 04, 2017, 08:56:27 AM
Where are all the thousands of shell casings if this is the room that the guy was firing from ?  ::)

Do we have photos of the whole area of the room(s)? Do we have photos of the broken windows from where the shots were fired?

I agree that we see few casings in the photos, but I don't think we have enough photos to say that there were few casings in the room(s).

I'm appalled by how long it took to neutralize this man.

There was an officer on the floor prepared to act and he was ordered to wait for SWAT.

I'd have disobeyed that order.

I won't ascribe motives for ordering that man to wait. That would be unproductive.

Please, no lectures on Tombstone Courage.

ArMAP, That room would have had shell casings everywhere..  shell casings that are ejected from a rifle of any kind have a very high exit velocity - I am sure there are US folks on here who can testify to that if they have been on a shooting range -
IF he was firing for over a extended period of time, it would be littered with them.. also where is the debris from the breech of the doors?

He wasn't firing the guns in the room, it was out the window(s).  (There is a picture of Mandalay Bay hotel showing two windows smashed out.)  He was 35 floors up think of the angle the guns would have to be aimed at.

I would say many shell casings would be found at the base of the hotel as they would be outside the room.

In updates I've heard (especially from Laura Loomer getting info from Mandalay employees): The shooter was a platinum member in the hotel (meaning he can get special privileges); he had one room reserved in his name and the adjoining room was reserved in his girlfriends name (booked weeks in advance).

The union office window in the hotel is completely covered with Antifa posters. In the shooters room Antifa propaganda was all over the place (yes this could have been planted, just saying what has been reported). The shooter was filming himself shooting into the crowd and had a camera in the hall to watch when police arrived. Another insider (police) revealed the shooter did not kill himself, he was shooting at the police and was killed by them. The shooter had recently wired $100,000 to the Philipines (heavily Islamized now) where his girlfriend supposedly was. His girlfriend is apparently and Antifa and Islam supporter. The Mandalay hotel (owner?) had circulated memos (Laura Loomer has a copy of the actual memo) offering to match employee donations to organizations like Antifa, BLM, etc.

To me this man was radicalized (or hypnotized) into doing this with the support of the Mandalay hotel that apparently has heavy security yet he got in with over 20 weapons and ammunition 5 days before the event. I see this as just the beginning of all the brainwashed/radicalized minions being called to arms to start a civil war against everyone who doesn't think like them (you know, the opposition they refer as to Nazi's and white supremecists).

A recent video emerged (Louder with Crowder) who had people infiltrate Antifa that confirms they are hugely organized at higher levels, well funded, and planning in November to orchestrate many strikes with guns and knives to take the government down. I think this Mandalay massacre is just a hint of what's to come - and their tactic is to then blame it on the right/Republicans/Trump supporters/Nazi's/white supremecists, etc. to justify their actions and claim they were standing up and doing the right thing. A completely bass ackwards logic that the media and Hollywood will undoubtedly rejoice in.

This is part of the George Soros/globalists take down of America (and Europe) plan using these feeble minded people to start all this. Trump got in and since Hillary isn't in the WH to usher in global domination and sign away everyone's rights with the TPP and Paris Accord they are taking the US out this way instead. Bringing in milions of unvetted muslims is also part of the agenda to get rid of average people - we're "in their way" and they want us taken out. Is also happening in Canada and Trudeau is parroting the same BS - after the Edmonton ISIS attack he said "Diversity is our strength and he condemns white supremecists". *barf*

It's game on people - the globalists are manipulating everything - Antifa is aligning with radical Islamists, they are all uniting to bring in a civil war. :-( They want no one to have guns to protect themselves as Pelosi, Hillary, Kimmel plead to take away gun rights. Yeah, that will really make a difference alright...

They are saying this is the largest massacre in American history but it isn't - The massacre of over 150 Lakota men, women and children at wounded knee by the cavalry is - the cavalry went in to "disarm" them. Sound familiar???

let the reader BEWARE !!!!!


http://triblive.com/usworld/world/12798047-74/russia-taking-advantage-of-american-tragedies-such-as-las-vegas-shooting

Russia taking advantage of American tragedies such as Las Vegas shooting
Aaron Aupperlee     Tuesday, Oct. 3, 2017, 10:54 a.m.


The top link shared for most of the day Monday by the 600 Russian-affilitated accounts monitored by the Alliance for Securing Democracy was a story on www.truepundit.com, a conservative news site given a "Pants on Fire" score by PolitiFact and called "super-dubious" by Politico, that cites exclusive information from an unnamed FBI source that Stephen Paddock "had 'radical leanings' when it came to politics."
"Any time there is a tragedy, there is ripe ground for disinformation," said Schafer, coordinator for communications, social media and digital content for the Alliance for Securing Democracy. "Right now, I would say be very, very cautious of the news coming out."

Wish
i did not see your post when i posted and just now read it and went who the heck is laura l.

so of course i looked her up..not to discredit her but to see what slate she was coming from

QuoteIn updates I've heard (especially from Laura Loomer

everyone is entitled to an opinion but it helps to know what their base is

here's what i found that helps me decide about what she says
my opinion.. mixed with just enough truth to make you wonder

Laura Loomer - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Loomer
Laura Elizabeth Loomer is an alt-right American political activist and Internet personality. During the summer of 2017 she was a reporter for Canada's The Rebel ...
‎Barry University stunt · ‎Julius Caesar play ... · ‎Other activities


Laura Loomer - Home | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/lauraloomerofficial/
Laura Loomer. 4.1K likes. Laura Loomer is an investigative journalist.
Laura Loomer - The Rebel

https://www.therebel.media/laura_loomer
Laura Loomer is a right-wing investigative journalist and activist. Originally from Arizona, Laura began her journalism career working as an undercover journalist ...
Images for Laura Loomer


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Featured_content

Laura Elizabeth Loomer is an alt-right[1] American political activist and Internet personality. During the summer of 2017 she was a reporter for Canada's The Rebel Media, until resigning in September.[2][3][4][5][6] Prior to June 2017 she worked for Project Veritas with James O'Keefe.[

Career
Loomer is a former employee of conservative activist James O'Keefe, who is known for selectively edited undercover video investigations.[8] Loomer is the New York correspondent for the conservative Canadian news site The Rebel Media, nicknamed The Rebel, that has been referred to as the "Canadian Breitbart."[7][9]



did that selective editing jump out at cha.. it did me

SO did anyone find out if Ron and John's Familys are ok ?

Las Vegas shooting: Woman told crowd 'you're all going to f***ing die' before attack started

Did anyone catch this.... I saw it I think on the morning of the event... seems to be a little weird. Just some regular nutcase saying "we are all doomed??"  maybe. Heres a link to a newspaper report....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vegas-shooting-stephen-paddock-attack-warning-eyewitness-what-happened-latest-news-updates-a7978821.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vegas-shooting-stephen-paddock-attack-warning-eyewitness-what-happened-latest-news-updates-a7978821.html)

Quote from: wish on October 04, 2017, 04:11:32 PM
To me this man was radicalized (or hypnotized) into doing this with the support of the Mandalay hotel that apparently has heavy security yet he got in with over 20 weapons and ammunition 5 days before the event.

I'm going to want some sort of evidence that Paddock had weapons training, before I believe he actually did this.  From what I've read, (and what is consistent with the videos) the shooter was using an M60 machine gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun).  Assuming this firearm was obtained legally, it would have been modified by the BATF to allow only semi-automatic fire, although there are apparently other mods which to some extent reverse the changes that are made to the weapon before it becomes legal.

This gun weighs 10.5 kg, and has a total length of around a meter.  It fires rounds nearly 3 inches long.  In other words, this is a big gun.

I can't see a 64 year old carrying this weapon for long distances or to a great height, and I also can't see this weapon being fired by anyone who had not been taught how to use it.  Its' recoil is immense, and would require both strength and experience.

Putting it simply, I don't think Paddock did this.  I think this was a bona fide black op.  There was probably a team of between 2-4 military people, who would have been extremely well trained, and who got in and out relatively quickly.  I also think the cops were told about this in advance, which is why it took them over an hour to show up.  They may or may not have been given detailed info about what was going on, but I think at the very least they would have had orders to stay out of the way for a certain period of time, which for whatever reason they were willing to obey.

QuoteA recent video emerged (Louder with Crowder) who had people infiltrate Antifa that confirms they are hugely organized at higher levels, well funded, and planning in November to orchestrate many strikes with guns and knives to take the government down.

They might be well funded; but at every protest I've ever seen, the supposedly militant Left these days, in every Western country, in tactical terms are a genuinely contemptible joke.

They don't co-ordinate.  They don't even try to lure or isolate individual police, in response to the cops' usual phalanx(ish) tactics.  They don't use focused fire (rocks or molotovs in their case, not guns) at the outer edges of the police line.  They don't try and flank the police.  They don't display any discipline or willingness to control their emotions in order to achieve longer term objectives at all.  They're essentially teenaged to 25 year old, angry, Millennial useful idiots who just want to smash things.  Against a group like that, literally any contemporary police unit anywhere who seriously decided to take the gloves off, could mow them down like flies.

The American Left has no hard, physical or military power.  They rely on censorship, mockery, lies, and deceiving other people into thinking that they have the moral high ground, and then getting said other people to do their dirty work for them.

QuoteI think this Mandalay massacre is just a hint of what's to come - and their tactic is to then blame it on the right/Republicans/Trump supporters/Nazi's/white supremecists, etc. to justify their actions and claim they were standing up and doing the right thing.

They can only claim that they are doing the right thing, for as long as they stick to the candlelight vigils, downvoting people on Reddit, and producing slime-drenched sound bites from Bono or Russell Brand.  The moment they become truly known for employing physical violence, as Black Lives Matter apparently already have, then any claim to the moral high ground goes out the window; and more than anything else, the false pretense of having the moral high ground is what the Left need.

The Left don't try and achieve totalitarian dystopia with violence, for the most part.  Sure, it's been done at times, yes; but the preferred strategy consists of tearful speeches from Nelson Mandela and convincing everyone about historical inevitability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo

They want consent.  They want people to think that what they are trying to achieve is simply the right thing.  Once they are entrenched, then yes, you will simply be shot or sent to a gulag if you don't obey them; but before they are established, they need public support, so it is vital for them to appeal to popular idealism. 

They need you to think that hate speech is not free speech.  They need you to believe in white privelege.  They need you to believe in rape culture.  They also need to use mockery and censorship as their only means of countering dissenting opinions, because they don't have anything else.  They don't have logic.  All they have is hypocrisy, lies, cowardice, and perpetual malevolence.

This is the entire reason why I am not a Utopian idealist myself any more; because I know that to the extent that you have such idealism, it will be used against you.  Post-scarcity economics, world peace, and political equality are nice dreams; but in the hands of some people, they are also tools for achieving human extinction.

QuoteThis is part of the George Soros/globalists take down of America (and Europe) plan using these feeble minded people to start all this.

If this is Soros' plan, then he needs to use some of those billions of his to hire better strategists; because I've seen the Brain come up with better ideas.


To George Soros, I have only one thing to say:-

"NARF!"

QuoteBringing in milions of unvetted muslims is also part of the agenda to get rid of average people

"Oh, God, the Muslims are coming!  THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!!"


Can you spot the similarities here, kids? 8)

More seriously, I go back and forth where the Muslims are concerned.  Most of the time they don't bother me, and I think about lots of other things; but every now and again I'll read something which will remind me of the idea that it won't actually be the meek, but rather car-burning, Shariah-enforcing rape gangs who inherit the Earth.

It could happen.  I mean that.  It could.  The only issue in my mind is that there is Transhumanism, Communism, and human extinction due to global warming to be terrified of, as well.  When it comes to my own personal list of things to go into a foetal position on the floor about, the Muslims aren't in the top five.  Ebola and Fukushima are probably higher at the moment; not to mention the perennial problem of what I'm going to eat today.

QuoteIt's game on people - the globalists are manipulating everything - Antifa is aligning with radical Islamists, they are all uniting to bring in a civil war. :-(

Uniting...that reminds me of a song I heard in the closing credits of one of Michael Moore's films.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP4l_PeBMyk

I've heard it said recently that it is dangerous to listen to the propaganda of totalitarian movements in irony or jest; and it probably is.  The latter half of this post may come across as mockery as well, and I apologise if it does.

My intent is not derision.  My intent is to produce laughter, because I consider that a desirable alternative to tears.

This is the Kali Yuga.  This is the Tribulation.  This is the time that has been prophesied for the last six millennia, as a warning because of what a nightmare it was going to be.  We're sitting in the very middle of it, right now.

The armies of the Communists, the Fascists, the Muslims, and Ray Kurzweil are all converging upon us and the current moment.  We live in the crumbling remains of a society that was specifically designed to kill all of us in the first place.  Humanity is forgetting how to nurture its' young, because the majority of two generations have now been raised in daycare or in front of televisions, as opposed to by their parents.

I don't have any solutions.  No one does.  Maybe humanity won't survive.

Part of me thinks the Communists have already destroyed me.  They've already done what Marx set out to do.  I say this because the real purpose of Communism wasn't directly to take over the world.  Its' real purpose was much worse.

The real purpose of Communism is to convince people that there is nothing better available.  It's to teach us to think that humanity's best, most nurturing, and most really compassionate instincts are based on a lie.  It's to teach us to think that whatever idealism we might have, is just something to be twisted and exploited as a means of getting us to accept the establishment of a form of global totalitarianism that we could never remove, or even want to remove; because we would already believe that said totalitarianism was literally the only possible choice in existence.

From 4chan, via Facebook:-

(http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1507144991881.png)

Is this accurate?

Quote from: fansongecho on October 04, 2017, 12:54:02 PM
ArMAP, That room would have had shell casings everywhere..  shell casings that are ejected from a rifle of any kind have a very high exit velocity

Besides the possibility of most of the casings being ejected out of the windows, as far as I remember seeing, guns eject the empty casings to the right side, so they could have been ejected to the right of the area we see in the photos.

Also, he was using two adjoining rooms, and we don't know if we are seeing photos of the two rooms or just one. We don't know how close to the window(s) used to shoot from that area in the photos is. There are too many things we don't know, so I don't consider it strange that we see so few (relatively) casings on the photos.

Quote- I am sure there are US folks on here who can testify to that if they have been on a shooting range -

I have been expecting someone with more knowledge to comment on it, but it looks like those that know are not posting or are not even reading this thread.  :(

QuoteIF he was firing for over a extended period of time, it would be littered with them.. also where is the debris from the breech of the doors?

I noticed that, the entrance looks too clean.

Quote from: wish on October 04, 2017, 04:11:32 PM
A recent video emerged (Louder with Crowder) who had people infiltrate Antifa that confirms they are hugely organized at higher levels, well funded, and planning in November to orchestrate many strikes with guns and knives to take the government down.

So they are planning something for November and do this now? That makes no sense, why would they make this, putting people more on the cautious side before their "big action"?

QuoteThey are saying this is the largest massacre in American history but it isn't -

That's not what I have been hearing, what I heard them saying is that this is the biggest shooting in modern American history.

QuoteThe massacre of over 150 Lakota men, women and children at wounded knee by the cavalry is - the cavalry went in to "disarm" them. Sound familiar???

Yes, the Lakota had something the others wanted, and it wasn't the guns, it was the land.

Quote from: Somamech on October 04, 2017, 05:16:45 PM
SO did anyone find out if Ron and John's Familys are ok ?

They were on Monday morning (Portuguese time). I sent him a message and he told me they were all OK.

Very powerful words Petrus4

(I am being really careful to not trivialise other comments on the thread either)

Do we know if anyone has gone down to where the concert was and taken images of the area that the shots were rained down on?

I have heard conflicting reports that the door was also shoot threw by SWAT and the main suspect returned fire back before being killed, and in the door that was not breached I don't see any evidence of shots either way, and in the image of the lower torso and legs there does not seem to be any evidence of shots against the walls or blood? - (maybe he had a bullet proof vest that slowed the velocity of the rounds hitting him? but would the SWAT firing have been that accurate that it didn't tear up some of the walls?

I don't know if he did take his own life,and wasn't killed by SWAT gunfire - and I am not making assumptions either way, and I know there were two rooms and too few pictures to make total sense of that scene .. and we don't know how long it was before forensics took the images  ::) 

Do you know if he windows in the Mandalay are Hurricane Level protected (as reported on some sites) I see a useful hammer in one image, alluding to it being used to smash the windows.

Goodnight, sleep well.

Fansongecho

Quote from: fansongecho on October 04, 2017, 11:14:26 PM
I have heard conflicting reports that the door was also shoot threw by SWAT and the main suspect returned fire back before being killed, and in the door that was not breached I don't see any evidence of shots either way, and in the image of the lower torso and legs there does not seem to be any evidence of shots against the walls or blood? - (maybe he had a bullet proof vest that slowed the velocity of the rounds hitting him? but would the SWAT firing have been that accurate that it didn't tear up some of the walls?

I think there's audio of the breaching of the door, if there is it should show if there were shots fired at the time or not.

I have a question or two: is there a balcony out side the rooms? After watching the video, there are heavy floor length drapes in front of the windows which could have played a role as to where the spent casings landed

There are 4 different AR 15's pictured, along with roughly 100 casings on the floor scattered about; they appear to be 5.56 AR rounds, and I do not see any  7.62x51 (.308) casings, which is what is used in an M60 as petrus alledged, and I don't see any links

the room is around 320 feet above ground level; he had to be leaning out and pointing down at the concert area, even if it was 500 yards away, so it is possible that the majority of the casings are outside the building...

as for the door, the room had a double door; one is pictured intact(the right side door) and the other is lying sideways; it does appear to have multiple bullet holes in the door itself

I have a hard time believing that this did not happen.  I know a couple people that were there and are really messed up now with shock.

In my opinion, not everything that happens has to be a false flag.  There are wackos in this world that go postal once in a while.

This is no Sandy Hook in my opinion.

Quote from: The Seeker on October 05, 2017, 06:12:56 AM
I have a question or two: is there a balcony out side the rooms?

No, the exterior walls of the room are the glass panes we see from the outside. There's a video made by someone last year showing that room and we can see the view from there to the concert area.
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/Las_Vegas_1.jpg)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/Las_Vegas_2.jpg)

QuoteThere are 4 different AR 15's pictured, along with roughly 100 casings on the floor scattered about;

I just read somewhere that he shot around 200 shots.

Quote from: micjer on October 05, 2017, 12:35:35 PM
I have a hard time believing that this did not happen.  I know a couple people that were there and are really messed up now with shock.

In my opinion, not everything that happens has to be a false flag.  There are wackos in this world that go postal once in a while.

This is no Sandy Hook in my opinion.

Gave ya Gold for that one Micjer...
Just a well planned attack by a nutcase...

I stayed in the corner suite of a different floor last year.  Same corner as where all of this happened.  The suite had four large windows, each covered with heavy floor length drapes and sheers.  Two windows in the main area, and one in each bedroom.  The draperies are opened and closed by wall switch.  There are no balconies.  The suites offer a really good view of the strip.

Shasta

The greatest mass murder in US history was at Wounded Knee - in which the US army murdered Indians when it tried to take away their guns.

Another proof that the mass media can't be trusted.  Native American lives aren't counted and some of my skepticism about 'institutional racism' just went away.

this may have been the guy mentioned earlier  who was told to wait for the swat guys.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jesus-campos-las-vegas-shooter_us_59d5c607e4b0cde45872e30e?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Nick Visser
Reporter, HuffPost
10/05/2017 08:38 am ET
Unarmed Hotel Security Guard Who Found Las Vegas Shooter Hailed As Hero
Jesus Campos, wounded in a barrage of gunfire, said he was "just doing" his job.

An unarmed security guard at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino was hailed as a hero for pinpointing the Las Vegas shooter's location, despite a withering barrage of gunfire that wounded him in the leg.

Jesus Campos was on random patrol inside the hotel when the gunman opened fire Sunday on thousands of people gathered at the Route 91 Harvest Festival with modified assault weapons. According to The Daily Beast, Campos tracked the sound of gunshots to the 32nd floor and tried to open the door of the suite where the gunman was barricaded. The killer, who had set up security cameras outside the room, fired a furious barrage of bullets into the hallway, wounding the guard.

Campos was responsible for helping authorities nail down the gunman's exact location in the massive casino-hotel complex, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said Wednesday.

"It was the security guard," Lombardo said during a news conference. He said the gunman fired "well over 200 rounds straight into the hallway" after a peephole camera showed Campos and police officers who responded to his discovery of the location.

"It is amazing that the security guard didn't sustain additional injuries," Lombardo said. "His bravery was amazing because he remained with our officers, providing them the key pass to access the door and actually continued to help them clear rooms until our officers demanded that he go seek medical attention."

Police eventually blew open the door and found the killer dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Dave Hickey, president of the security labor union that represents Campos and hundreds of guards at the Mandalay Bay, told The Daily Beast a bullet in the guard's leg will be removed in surgery at a later date.

Campos, reached by ABC News, said he was "just doing my job" and was "fine" after the drama.

"I'm telling you that I don't think that our officers are recognized enough for the valuable role that they play in protecting property, people and even the nation," Hickey told The Daily Beast.

Nearly 60 people were killed in the attack on Sunday night and about 500 were injured. Investigators are still trying to piece together the gunman's motive.

Quote from: ArMaP on October 04, 2017, 10:15:18 PM
They were on Monday morning (Portuguese time). I sent him a message and he told me they were all OK.

Thanks mate!

Although I don't really expect either of them to be attending a country music festival... I have no idea if any of their family's may have been involved and that was what worried me.

Thanks again for answering my Q Ara  :)  It wont help all the victim's, but it help's me in knowing that the people I know who live in Vegas are ok.

It's time's like this tragedy I'm glad it's hard to find what happened to certain technology.

Imagine what would have happened if Metal Storm got out into the Nut-Case world???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8hlj4EbdsE

http://www.rense.com/general96/paddockblood.html

Very graphic (warning).  The scene looks staged.

Quote from: Eighthman on October 05, 2017, 08:01:36 PM
http://www.rense.com/general96/paddockblood.html

Very graphic (warning).  The scene looks staged.

The blood and the shell casings? Why?

suicide gun appears to be a distance away from hand.   Spent cartridges appear to be on top of blood rather than blood on top of cartridges.

Not know in what position he was when he shot himself I cannot have any idea of what could have happened to the gun. Also, if I'm not mistaken, if he still had the gun in his hand the standard practice would be to kick it out of his hand before confirming if he was dead or not.

Flowing blood (or any other fluid) would get under the cartridges.

Is there a solution to gun control that requires no change to the Constitution?

First, make some allowance for private defense but not private arsenals as the right to bear arms is sustained thereby.

Second, create militias at the state/county level - which would allow controlled use of military level weapons at approved gun ranges in exchange for volunteer membership in local fire protection, border patrols or auxiliary police, including office work.  Irresponsible people get booted out while others get their Rambo impulses fulfilled.  Under the 10th Amendment, no commandeering of local militias is allowed - consistent with Founding Father's being against standing armies. Thus, 'a well regulated militia'.

It seems to me that you could do this by using the simple language of the 2nd Amendment and also be consistent with its history, while reducing gun violence.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 06, 2017, 08:20:10 PM
Yes.  Shooting the people who want it. 8)

lolol...good one Petrus4....

to answer the question,,,,no because there will always be CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!!....

Rock  8)

8thman, you seem to overlook the fact that 99% of crimes commited with firearms are not by law abiding citizens, or with lawfully purchased firearms

there is too much hype and bs out there; that one casing Jeff Rense is having a cow about could have been inadvertently kicked into the blood pool

and by the way, it is SOP to move any firearm away from the perp, even if they appear to be clearly dead...

I have a Glock model 32 on my side whenever I walk out my door; I also have a backup pistol and a CCP in my wallet; tis better to have it and not need it...

Agitation for gun grabbing is a permanent feature of US politics. What I suggest is a way to save our rights without further injury to the Constitution.

If police tampered with the crime scene as you claim, it would be good to hear it.  There should be huge numbers of spent cartridges laying around.  Of any place on Planet Earth, Vegas hotels must be loaded with video cameras and recordings - are they available?  Paul Craig Rogers has the best blog on this tragedy - we will never know exactly what happened but the narrative presented doesn't make sense.  Imagine a work of fiction with lots of pages torn out and you've got it.

Does anyone realize What Might Yet Happen with this? There is no established motive but rumors are emerging that there are links with ISIS and/or CIA and/or Antifa.  Tag one of them and this becomes a pivotal event in history with an aftermath similar to 9/11. 

Sounds pretty ridiculous.

wow another one i had to look up



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts

Paul Craig Roberts (born April 3, 1939) is an American economist, conspiracy theorist, journalist, blogger and former civil servant.[3] He is best known as a journalist specializing in economic affairs from an anti-establishment, liberal conservative perspective.[4]
He reached the height of his government career when he became the United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy under President Reagan in 1981.[5] In office he and his staff successfully combated the stagflation (price-inflation and stagnation) then plaguing the American economy. Tighter monetary policy was used to restrain inflation; in addition lower marginal tax rates were used to increase the rewards to work and investment.[6] In recognition, he was awarded the US Treasury's Meritorious Service Award for "outstanding contributions to the formulation of United States economic policy".[7]

Just remember, kids.  The reason why the government seriously wants to confiscate your guns, is because it will be much more difficult for them to herd you into FEMA death camps if you still have them.  They want to remove your ability to defend yourselves.  That is primarily what this is about.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 07, 2017, 07:55:05 AM
They want to remove your ability to defend yourselves.  That is primarily what this is about.

It always is the motive behind gun control laws; the founding fathers gave us the second amendment to protect ourselves from an oppressive government; it bodes well to remember that both Poland and Nazi Germany had strict gun laws before WW2

Imperial Admiral Yamamoto stated Japan would not invade the mainland US because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
8)
It needs to stay that way...

Quote from: The Seeker on October 07, 2017, 12:15:52 PM
it bodes well to remember that both Poland and Nazi Germany had strict gun laws before WW2

No, Nazi Germany didn't have strict gun laws, only for Jews. In fact, gun laws were made less strict by Hitler, to allow almost all people to be able to have a gun. At the same time it made it more difficult (or even impossible) for specific groups to have guns, the groups they wanted to eliminate.

QuoteImperial Admiral Yamamoto stated Japan would not invade the mainland US because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Invasions on foot are soooo last century. :P

Quote from: petrus4 on October 07, 2017, 07:55:05 AM
Just remember, kids.  The reason why the government seriously wants to confiscate your guns, is because it will be much more difficult for them to herd you into FEMA death camps if you still have them.

They don't need to confiscate people's guns, they just need to make people that own most guns think that someone else is the enemy, so they are the ones doing the shooting.

Quote from: Eighthman on October 07, 2017, 03:12:27 AM
Of any place on Planet Earth, Vegas hotels must be loaded with video cameras and recordings - are they available?

In another forum a member posted a link to an article from 2016 that showed that out of 27 Las Vegas casinos only 4 had cameras in the hotel hallways. Sure, they have lots of cameras, but only in the casino area.

QuoteDoes anyone realize What Might Yet Happen with this? There is no established motive but rumors are emerging that there are links with ISIS and/or CIA and/or Antifa.  Tag one of them and this becomes a pivotal event in history with an aftermath similar to 9/11.

Yes, rumours are the best way of creating an enemy where there's none, or to shift blame from the real enemy to a new one.

I have read rumours that he was a "right wing gun nut", "an undercover FBI/CIA weapons trafficker", "connected to Antifa", "Country Music hater", etc., etc.

The thing we see less commented on is that he was just a lunatic with a plan.

The most credible theory so far is that he was an arms trader with an alphabet agency - either a deal with radicals went bad and he got selected as the patsy or he realized that he was going to be killed as a 'loose end' and so took revenge.

The FBI has been accused by some sane, credible people of setting up terrorist events, in effect.  They 'encourage' fringe people to take up arms and kill - so that they can pounce on them and claim credit for breaking up terrorist cells.  Supposedly, things don't always go as planned. Hence,........

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/Terror-Plot-New-York-Concert-Landmark-ISIS-Las-Vegas-Arrest-Times-Square-449749293.html

Funny how a terror plot from a year ago reaches the headlines.  Must just be coincidence.....

Quote from: Eighthman on October 07, 2017, 02:56:58 PM
The most credible theory so far is that he was an arms trader with an alphabet agency - either a deal with radicals went bad and he got selected as the patsy or he realized that he was going to be killed as a 'loose end' and so took revenge.

I don't think it's that credible, as the arms were legal and registered in his name. I don't see anyone trying to buy guns illegally buying legal guns. What's the point?

https://www.rt.com/news/405806-fbi-texas-shooting-isis/

Yup, the FBI has to do business with ISIS, just to keep tabs on 'em.  Just coincidence....

Maybe he was selling to felons or people who didn't want any record of the transaction.  Or maybe the original reports of fully automatic weapons was true and we're being lied to.

I noticed that GLP seems to be swept free of the more credible threads on this.  Guys at Langely just following orders?

Published on Oct 9, 2017
In essence, because of the differences in the speed of sound vs. the speed of the bullets from a known cartridge (.223 Remington, in this case), the time lag between the last bullet hitting the pavement and the last audible report of the rifle muzzle can be used to very accurately calculate the range of the shooter.



More importantly, when the audio from the Las Vegas shooting is analyzed, it reveals TWO shooters operating at the same time, not just one shooter. Shooter #1 is operating at 425 – 475 yards, which is consistent with the Mandalay Bay hotel, but shooter #2 is operating at approximately 250 – 270 yards.



Published on Oct 7, 2017
The FBI is clearly lying about the Las Vegas shooting, which is why Americans increasingly don't trust the FBI and increasingly believe the agency is involved in a massive criminal cover-up.



As The Gateway Pundit is reporting, the FBI is now coaching Mandalay Bay employees to change their stories and lie about what they heard: Multiple guests in Stephen Paddock's room!

Follow the money...

Michael Chertoff: Former United States Secretary of Homeland Security co-author of the US Patriot Act has a group called, the Chertoff Group (http://www.chertoffgroup.com) founded in 2009. It's a "security and risk management group".

The Chertoff Group has a vested interest in a massive push for backscatter machines because they're the biggest producers of these machines, along with another firm called OSI (https://www.osi-systems.com).

According to the source which was carbon dated September 11, 2017, the plan these two firms has is to pass laws that require the machines in all public places. This will be in the name of safety. And Americans will be happy to do it. Just like we were with the Patriot Act after 9/11. After they accomplish this they'll merge their firms in 2020, sell their stocks and make billions in profits. All while making the US like the Middle East, which is their ultimate goal.

The government wants these machines going up in all the casinos in Las Vegas and eventually in places like parks, public schools, grocery stores, libraries, restaurants, public transportation stations, all event places, malls, everywhere you can imagine. They want to make America like the Middle East as far as "security" goes.

The Chertoff Group will make billions from this deal. Wynn Casino (http://nypost.com/2017/10/08/vegas-shooting-wouldnt-have-happened-at-my-casino-steve-wynn/) already has backscatter machines (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k21lCzNLG8) in their casino and it hasn't even been four days. Dozens of newspaper articles have already mentioned how this is going to happen. The head of the Department of Homeland Security has been on CNN and talked about these machines and how we need them. Will Trump casino be next?

James Murren (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Murren), CEO of Mandalay Bay/MGM Resorts International is a sitting member of the National Infrastructure Advisory Council (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Infrastructure_Advisory_Council). He's responsible for getting legislation and regulations passed for security & technology infrastructure in public places. Things such as x-ray backscatter machines.

So the CEO of Mandalay Bay is a sitting member of the Homeland Security National Infrastructure Advisory Council?

This is not normal people!

Sheldon Adelson: CEO, Las Vegas Sands Corporation (https://www.sands.com)
Contributed 25 million dollars to Donald Trumps campaign
Worth 32 billion dollars
Owns Israeli newspaper, Israel Hayom (http://www.israelhayom.com)

Wait for it.....

https://youtu.be/901lYbPmqu4

They'll read your eyeballs when you enter the door....know everything about you....
8)

So does this mean I can't take my swords into Excalibur Casino anymore?

::)

Quote from: zorgon on October 12, 2017, 02:14:34 AM
So does this mean I can't take my swords into Excalibur Casino anymore?

::)

Only the ones approved by renfair inspectors! ;)

Zorgon, I suspect that you might be able to get your swords, knives, halberds, maces, shields, lances, pikes, battle-axes, dirks, and a full suit of armour in there buddy..  I mean a guy can get XXX (insert total number of weapons) without tripping any alarms..  :o :o  so it shouldn't be to much of an ask m8  :)

*not trying to trivialise the events of that terrible night*

Cheers,
Fans'

Ranty!
Published on Oct 4, 2017
On the 30th sept 2017, WGOW talk radio, reported on their website about stephen paddock and the massacre that happened there. The problem is, that the event didn't take place until 2 days later. My good friend Antonio Subirats released this information on the day of the attacks, his video can be seen here


ANOTHER VIEW:

"Um, excuse me for a moment here, but I have a really stupid question. I know you told me there's no such thing as a stupid question, but this one seems really stupid anyway.

The media has released photos of guns and ammo magazines laying around on the floor of the supposed "sniper's nest" hotel room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel in Las Vegas, but there's something totally wrong with these pictures:

#1) Where is all the expended brass?

#2) Where are all the carpet burns from hot brass and hot gun barrels?

#3) When seconds count, the police are only 72 minutes away... but why?

#4) I swear this is my last really stupid question, but please...

This whole scene is being called a "sniper's nest" by the entire fake news media, but I've looked and looked and I still don't see a sniper rifle anywhere. What I see are a bunch of AR-15s that fire .223 rounds (or 5.56 mm for you metric heads). Sniper rifles are bolt-action rifles, not auto-loading semi-auto rifles.

Now, I've only fired about 100,000 of these rounds myself, so I'm still a newbie, but the last time I checked, these rounds are usually about 55 grains in mass, and they lose about 75% of their kinetic energy by the time they reach a 400-yard target (the distance from the Mandalay Bay hotel to the concert lot is about 400 yards). You can see the dope yourself at Gundata.org.

On top of that, the bullet drop is 32 inches, which is of course almost three feet of bullet drop. Now, given the elevated angle of the shooter, that bullet drop wouldn't be quite as dramatic, as the coefficient of a 20 degree declination angle is, of course, 0.94. But the energy of this round at 400 yards makes it only marginally effective. It's just at the outside boundary of the effective range of a .223 cartridge, as any good Marine will tell you.

Conclusion? All these casualties couldn't possibly be caused by .223 rounds. Most likely, they were actually heavier rounds fired from something like a belt-fed AK system (7.62 x 39mm rounds), or perhaps even a belt-fed .308 automatic weapon. So where is all the brass, anyway?

Did Stephen Paddock possess magical brass that can disappear after being fired?"


Comment from John Christian:

QuoteI'm a trained Navy Combat Corpsman, stationed with the Marines for 15 years and went through a war with them. I've yet to see anyone interviewed that is injured. I've seen one say he was hit in the neck and the bullet is still in his neck, and not a bandage in sight...NOT POSSIBLE!!!

Another guy says he was shot in the foot and within 24 hours, he's standing during a TV Interview...NOT POSSIBLE!!!

Another TV interview guy claims to have been shot in the head and the bullet exited 3 inches from where it went in and once again, not a single bandage in sight and even talks about having brain swelling, yet some hospital let him out...NOT POSSIBLE!!!

What people are experiencing is trauma from Crisis Actors telling them that people were shot and many killed...when the truth of it was NOBODY was injured or killed.

It was a FEMA DRILL !

Did you know about the Illuminati card called "Las Vegas"...with a Jack and an Ace on it...while Jason Aldean's logo is a Jack and an Ace, which is also tattooed on his left bicep and the Jack is valued at 10, while the Ace can be valued at "1" and it all happened on 10-1...

Coincidence? I don't think so...Jason Aldean's tour was called "They don't know"...which has been cancelled. It was a Staged Event with the Army there with moulage kits, as I trained with in combat medical school...look real, with blood and everything, yet not actual...

PLEASE DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BELIEVE ANY TV PROGRAM...it is just that...PROGRAMMING!!!

Quote from: thorfourwinds on October 13, 2017, 09:14:49 PM

Shooting started about 10 PM Pacific Daylight Time - Sunday - Oct. 1, 2017

So, how is the following possible?

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/LV_shooter_WGOW_sept29.png)

That date is added by Google, it's supposed to be the date of the last time the Google bot read the page.

A little test gave me this result. :)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/Google4.jpg)

It looks like, as with most Google things, it can't be trusted. :)

Thank you ArMaP.
Please bear with me, but how does that explain that the story was posted 2 days before the 'event'?

Quote from: thorfourwinds on October 14, 2017, 12:42:05 AM
Thank you ArMaP.
Please bear with me, but how does that explain that the story was posted 2 days before the 'event'?

The story wasn't posted 2 days before, the same way that story on the image I posted (about today's Trump speech about the Iran deal) wasn't posted 3 days ago, that date is the date Google read the page.

From what I found (the image and video you posted and the search I did), it looks like that happens to pages that have the same address but change the content, so while Google shows the updated text it shows an outdated crawl date, probably the previous crawl date.

Edited to add that there's no way of knowing when a page was published on the Internet, as, unlike images, what we see rarely corresponds to a file existing on a disk, they are created on the fly with information from a database, like this forum.

Quote from: fansongecho on October 12, 2017, 11:04:41 PM
Zorgon, I suspect that you might be able to get your swords, knives, halberds, maces, shields, lances, pikes, battle-axes, dirks, and a full suit of armour in there buddy..

Well that is true  but we haven't had a group outing for a few years since the guild kind died...

The last time we went we took bow and arrows  but we did call ahead and told them. it was funny because the noob security outside said we couldn't bring in the bows... yet said nothing about the swords LOL  We told them call your boss and all was cool  So we went Dragon Hunting

(http://landoflegendslv.com/80media_thankyou/01PublicityPhotos/Excalibur04/001/62.jpg)

Problem is when stupid people do stupid stuff the security mind goes crazy. The security mind NEVER catches a bad guy BEFORE the fact, they just make life miserable for all of us

Example the TSA at airports... they have never caught ONE terrorists but frisk old people and feel up your junk, fondle and strip search children and steal your stuff. (Just google TSA agent arrested and go back 10 years)  WHO are the real terrorists? Those that say they want to "protect" you

These days everything is a "false flag" until it happens in YOUR town and you see the bodies.  What then> Is it still a 'false flag"? Was it government created? If so WHY? what is the point and purpose? Everyone already believes its all BS news so who is effected ?

An operation has to have a purpose and effect or its a waste of time. When did we get so jaded that we can't see a random nutcase gone berserk?

Not much about it here on the news since I got back... Vegas tends to not high light things like this because it effect tourism, which is our life blood. The sooner its put behind the sooner life returns to normal.

If all shootings and bad news is 'false flag'  and we all know it... WHAT is the point? Think about it


In the meantime I will call Excalibur and see if we are still cool. Might wait a bit to let it cool down

(http://landoflegendslv.com/80media_thankyou/01PublicityPhotos/Excalibur04/002/57.jpg)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on October 14, 2017, 12:42:05 AM
Thank you ArMaP.
Please bear with me, but how does that explain that the story was posted 2 days before the 'event'?

Knews feeds do this all the time...  they will post an article on a certain day, then post an 'update' over top of it, burying the original story with the new report...  There are always two dates on an article  the original published date and the UPDATED date...

This issue has given me lots of grief over the years search articles and updating existing links.  It sucks because you can't copy their articles but they delete them and change them so it all gets lost

(so I save a copy anyway when its something important. Usually they won't bug you for copyright AFTER they have dropped it on their sight as its "old news" and no value to them

Quote from: fansongecho on October 12, 2017, 11:04:41 PM
I mean a guy can get XXX (insert total number of weapons) without tripping any alarms..

Well we always wore them in plain sight At the Treasure Island they required we had them piece tied (a small sting to keep someone from pulling it out from behind you) Excalibur did't care :D

But there are no metal detectors at casinos  There is facial recognition software on the cameras  but you would have had to been flagged for a previous action before it alerts anyone.  It did work in our favor on several occasions with noobie security. LOL One time Bijarki the Black my then body gaurd  6'2" built like a bear had two cross sowrds on back, two arm band claw daggers and assorted knives...

We got in and a noob gaurd stopped us and said "You can't bring those in here"  meanwhile the other security heard a weapons call and came looking. When they saw it was us, the stopped to watch how the noob did.  So we calmly told him we could, he called his boos... boss was a noob LOL  so we explained again and he called upstairs... so we hear  "yes they are peace tied... but..."  then "yes but..."  and then he turned to us and said "enjoy your stay" 

Awww the Goode Old Days... when the front center viewers box at the Excalibur Tournament was reserved for us costumed folkes :D

THIS is Bijarki (Bear in Norwegian)  He is special Ops :D  The guy to the left is then Governor Kenny Guinn and two channel 3 News people  This is what he was wearing at Treasure Island that cause d the stir

(http://landoflegendslv.com/07foreign/01ov/images/Events/Forest1999/People/002.jpg)

Welcome to my reality :P

A friend of my daughter is a nurse in Las Vegas.  She said the hospital where she works got shooting victims.

Quote from: thorfourwinds on October 13, 2017, 09:14:49 PM
Conclusion? All these casualties couldn't possibly be caused by .223 rounds. Most likely, they were actually heavier rounds fired from something like a belt-fed AK system (7.62 x 39mm rounds), or perhaps even a belt-fed .308 automatic weapon. So where is all the brass, anyway?

I read an M60.  I don't remotely claim to be a gun nut, but from what little I do know, an AK weighs considerably less and would be easier to move around.  They still aren't a small gun though, (at least partly because of the size of the magazine) so I would assume that if you were seen with one, there would still be questions asked.

From the video footage I saw, the sound of the bullets at Mandalay had an unusually deep, base tone.  An AK firing has a much higher pitched, more treble sound; it's like thunder cracking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSuAPjw2Jgw

I have heard the gunfire I heard in the Mandalay videos before, though.  It reminded me of the sound of an IWI Tavor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWI_Tavor), which is an assault rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjx4KSKHIC4

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=5nKx717ySu4

If you compare the above two videos; the first contains an IWI Tavor firing.  The second contains the sound of the initial gunfire at the LV concert.  I found another video on YouTube, and there appeared to be some kind of crackling overlaying the gunfire, which to me did not sound like gunfire at all.  The rate of fire does not sound like anything fully automatic, either.  It seems fairly close in both videos.

I expect that this will receive derision, but I will explain how I first heard of the IWI Tavor.  I play Minecraft and have for many years.  A year or so ago now probably, I came across a modification for the game which contained simulations of a number of more recent firearms.  One of them was the IWI Tavor, which was known in the game as an MTAR. 

I don't entirely know if this part of the recreation was accurate, but within the game an AK-47 was included as well, and I preferred the Tavor because its' heavier weight meant that it was more stable, and I had less problems maintaining aim due to recoil.  The real weapon seems to have remarkably low recoil for a gun of its' type.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 15, 2017, 04:23:05 PM
If you compare the above two videos; the first contains an IWI Tavor firing.  The second contains the sound of the initial gunfire at the LV concert.

The sound in that second video is lacking high frequencies, everything sounds low pitched, the videos I have seen have a much better sound.

QuoteI found another video on YouTube, and there appeared to be some kind of crackling overlaying the gunfire, which to me did not sound like gunfire at all.

A short sound, like a snap of fingers? I saw some people saying that's the bullet breaking the sound barrier, and that's why we only ear it in some shots, those that came closer to the camera.

QuoteThe rate of fire does not sound like anything fully automatic, either.  It seems fairly close in both videos.

That's the first thing I noticed, that the fire rate was not consistent, it usually slows down but, in at least one case, it accelerates again, before slowing down again at the end.

The police radio recordings show that there were reports of shooters everywhere in that area, but as soon as the police got to the places they didn't find any sign of shooting.

Quote from: ArMaP on October 17, 2017, 08:28:22 PM
The police radio recordings show that there were reports of shooters everywhere in that area, but as soon as the police got to the places they didn't find any sign of shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czCwt6fAalA

petrus4, could you please use words? It's easier to understand what you mean. :)

Quote from: ArMaP on October 19, 2017, 12:47:20 AM
petrus4, could you please use words? It's easier to understand what you mean. :)

Forgive me.  I posted that video outlining the shell game, as an analogy.

You will observe that with several of these terrorist incidents, there have reportedly been numerous drills operating simultaneously with the incident itself, with the effect that first responders became confused and were unable to tell which incident was real, and which was a drill.  They have, to connect it with that video, been unable to figure out which shell the pea was underneath.

The fact that this is a (somewhat; it does not happen every time) consistent characteristic of these incidents, is part of what leads me to believe that they must have governmental support, because only the government could authorise drills to be running at the same time as the attacks.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 19, 2017, 10:09:09 AM
The fact that this is a (somewhat; it does not happen every time) consistent characteristic of these incidents, is part of what leads me to believe that they must have governmental support, because only the government could authorise drills to be running at the same time as the attacks.

Two questions:
1 - Was there a drill occurring at the time of the attack?
2 - Aren't those drills announced in advance?

My experience has been that drills are announced cedar in advance, to both the responders participating, and to the municipality where it takes place.  Littleton Hospital had a mass casualty drill a week before the Columbine shooting.  Those of us working night shift were confused when we woke up and had voice mails asking us to report to work due to a mass casualty.  The city and county of Denver has held drills, due to Denver Health being a level one trauma center.  It's also known as "Knife and Gun Club."  Medical Center of Aurora, which got many if the theater shooting victims is known as "Knife and Gun Club East."  After a while, we joke about stuff, because it would drive us nuts otherwise.

Shasta

Vegas shooting survivor, California charity co-founder dies suddenly

Unhurt Woman Survivor, 100% Certain
There Were Multiple Ground Level
Shooters In Crowd, Tells Her Horrific Story -
And Is Then Found Dead In Her Bedroom

http://www.seacoastonline.com/zz/news/20171011/vegas-shooting-survivor-california-charity-co-founder-dies-suddenly

http://rense.com/general96/unhurtdies.html


But the gunfire wasn't stopping this whole time. It wasn't ceasing. It wasn't slowing down. And It was directly behind us, following us. Bullets were coming from every direction. Behind us, in front of us, to the side of us. But I know, I just know, that there was someone chasing us. The entire time I felt this way. The farther we got from the venue, the closer the gunfire got. I kept looking back expecting to see the gunmen- and I say MEN because there was more than one person. There was more than one gun firing. 100% more than one.

As we were running, we kept changing direction, because it felt like no matter what direction we took, we were being followed. So we ended up running in a weird triangular path. The first place I remember getting to was a parking lot, and I told Casie (who was slightly in front of me) we needed to get under one of the trucks. She turned to me and started her way back to me, and that is when the gunfire got even CLOSER than ever before. It was RIGHT THERE. It was within the parking lot. Everyone around us was panicking once again. So we ditched the idea of getting underneath a vehicle, and we continued the run for our lives. If you know me, you know I am a big girl, who is out of shape, and who definitely does not run for any reason. But I can tell you I ran like I have never run before.

The 2nd place I remember going by was Hooters- which is where we met back up with the rest of our small group. We ran towards the entrance thinking we could take cover there, but as we got closer, a stampede of people ran out, terrified. We could only conclude that there was another gunman inside of that hotel. This made us even more scared- we had nowhere to go- no one to trust. At some point, we ended up at the airport & even entered the building for safety. Everyone as we entered were screaming at the staff "IS IT SAFE IN HERE?" but we weren't getting anyone to answer us, so after running about 30 feet into the building, not getting the answers we so desperately needed, we decided it, too, wasn't a safe spot, so we got out of there quickly and continued running.


APPLE VALLEY, Calif. — About a week after surviving the mass shooting at the Route 91 Harvest Festival in Las Vegas, Kymberley Suchomel has died.

Suchomel, 28, who was not injured during last week's shooting, died early Monday at her Apple Valley home, according to her grandmother, Julie Norton, the co-founder of the High Desert Phoenix Foundation.



Coincidence.......Hmmmmm  :-X

I would like to say that when I first saw this thread and read that it was a false flag, I did not read the information presented.

I was thinking that it was like Sandy Hook where I believe that it was all fabricated.

This is more like the JFK shootings where there looks like there were more involved than reported and of course the patsy dies to close it all out. 


So there purpose is trying to legislate more gun control, hence more people control I would assume.

I don't know how things are offline in America, but if Reddit is an even remotely accurate indication of the state of the country, then the situation is genuinely starting to become extremely scary.  You've got people talking about how they think violence towards political opponents with authoritarian views is justifiable, without realising that that makes them just as bad themselves.  There are also people saying that if a person gets a net negative vote score in a given subreddit, that person should then be prevented from posting in that sub again, which means that the person would no longer have the ability to improve their reputation; when most of the time people's motivations for downvoting comments are completely arbitrary.

There is no empathy.  There is also no recognition that even if you are completely selfish, the reason why it is still a bad idea to advocate that anyone else should be arbitrarily censored, banned, or killed, is because an environment where it can happen to anyone else, is an environment where someone can also rationalise doing it to you.

Quote from: micjer on January 30, 2018, 01:11:56 PM
So there purpose is trying to legislate more gun control, hence more people control I would assume.

Many people say that whenever a new shooting happens, but the laws stay the same.

Seriously, if "they" want to control people they don't need to take or control their guns, they just need to make them think what they want. It's more useful to have an idiot with a gun on your side than having an idiot with no gun. :)

I see that a video with the audio only showing on this thread seems to have disappeared.  I found another copy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au9nDtp1Slc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au9nDtp1Slc)

This is  1.5 hours long of the entire incident.  The one previous only has 28 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCxhqq4keDw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCxhqq4keDw)

It is interesting that at 19:40 it is stated that ``that it was likely confirmed that there are at least 2 shooters``

Also there was a suspicious black dually truck that sped away that raised interest.

This is an interesting video of pics from room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJy-M-XfCnU



This is the LVMPD full report.


https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1_October_FIT_Report_01-18-2018_Footnoted.pdf

I heard that also..!!  If you listen to the long version, it is also mentioned that reports came in that there were shooting at 2 other hotels.  I think in all the confusion that people reporting shots were confused.  That can happen in large incidents but, the possibility does exist.

I am sure that there was a lot of confusion while it happening.  Not sure what the truth is.


Warning graphic nature may be disturbing for some.
Girl with gunshot wounds.


Francis X. Maloney
Published on 15 Jan 2018
For the record I started recording around 10:10. I do not know the name of the girl being carried and dragged through the VIP tent, but she appeared to be shoot twice. I'm not sure why I waited over five minutes to start shooting video, but due to the Security containment of the venue I truly believed that the gunman was right outside of our tent and would be walking up the steps at any minute and I was more concerned with how I was going to handle that while my girlfriend was under the sofa. I was truly puzzled by the different reactions of the other concert goers as seen in the video. I had no idea he was across the street 32 floors up. I realized this burst of fire was very different from the rest because it is now coming in our direction as confirmed on the time stamped police vest cam video. This is also when I learned where the shots were coming from and decided it was time to leave. Over the next 5 minutes I made our way from the SW corner of the venue to the NE corner where we exited onto Giles Street near the Tropicana Hotel. (Where the unhelpful police were hiding behind their cars)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7RZeUCmvHQ&feature=youtu.be

This must have been terrifying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7RZeUCmvHQ&feature=youtube

The police use a standardized  ICS (Incident Command System) to systematically keep down confusion among their responding officers.  There were other law enforcement agencies responding, so a coordinated effort could be implemented in order to cover most of the area in and around the entire incident area.  You have to know what you are getting into before you respond.  Otherwise, you could very well lose members of your response team.  They had three teams deployed to 3 different locations because of calls coming in from citizens in 3 different hotels.

Looking at the video below and looking at the number of guns that were in that room, how was there not more people killed and wounded than there was!

Talk about shooting fish in a barrel.  Nowhere to hide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmB-ME8i2bA

I can`t blame the police for hiding behind cars, until they found out where the shots were being fired from as they certainly would have been targets.

To recap, the main reason why I think there must at least have been multiple shooters at Mandalay, (whether or not it was necessarily false flag) is because I can't see a 55 to 60 year old man carrying an M60 machine gun around by himself for extended periods.  They are a big enough gun that at times they have been tripod mounted; and not only that, they are very much a military weapon.  The ATF only allows Americans to apparently own them in semi-automatic form.

In my mind, if a civilian was truly going to do something like this, but still wanted a machine gun, then the AK-47 makes a lot more sense, for multiple reasons.

a}  According to Wikipedia, an AK-47 weighs 3.47 kg.  The M-60 weighs 10.5 kg, which is almost three times the AK's weight.  A heavier gun translates very directly into reduced mobility.  That means it will take more time to move, which in turn increases the likelihood that the user will be caught by the police, and it also increases the odds of fatigue.  At 41 years of age and in considerably less than optimal fitness, I do not like carrying weights of more than probably 3-4 kg for extended periods of time.  A 55 year old is presumably going to be much less enthusiastic about carrying a 10 kg firearm than I would be.

b}  The AK uses (relatively) almost the same size of ammunition; 7.62x39mm.  The M60 uses 7.62x51mm.

c}  While it is true that the AK has a much slower rate of fire, it can still fire bursts at 600 rounds per minute.  Additionally, this slower rate of fire would make the weapon easier to obtain legally, and would presumably be incrementally less likely to arouse suspicion.  (In America, at least; anywhere else it would still cause hysteria on the part of the authorities)

To me, the use of the M60 was a possible flaw on the part of whoever orchestrated this, assuming that we are talking about someone affiliated with the government who wanted the public to believe that a civilian was behind it.  As far as maximising casualties is concerned, yes, the M60 makes sense; but that is quite literally the only reason why it does.  The AK would presumably be marginally less effective in such a crowd, but said lesser effectiveness would be offset by its' weight and legality advantages, as mentioned.

Where did you get the M60 from? ???

He had 14 AR-15s (around 3 Kg), 8 AR-10s (between 3 and 4 Kg), a Ruger American bolt-action rifle (around 3 Kg) and a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver.

Why would he need that many guns, Armap?

Quote from: petrus4 on February 18, 2018, 04:54:11 AM
Why would he need that many guns, Armap?

I don't know, but that doesn't answer my question: where did you get the M60 from?

Quote from: ArMaP on February 18, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
I don't know, but that doesn't answer my question: where did you get the M60 from?

Mostly from the sound from some of the footage I saw; it was pretty much identical.  It was a much deeper, lower pitched sound than I was expecting from bullets.  I haven't heard a lot of gunfire but what I have heard usually sounds like loud cracking.  This was different, and the rhythm is the same as what I've seen from videos with an M60 firing as well.

I'm far from a specialist in this area, but the first thing I noticed on the videos from the Las Vegas shooting was that the fire rate was irregular, and that doesn't happen with an M60, it has a very steady rate of fire (from what I could see/ear in the videos).

Do we have someone used to how an M60 and an AR-15 sound in here? :)

I have fired an M60 in the army.  Listening to the firing, it sounded more like the M16 I fired in the army.  They now in the civilian sector call them AR-15's.  If they fire a 5.56 NATO round which has more of a louder sound than a civilian .223 round, then that would only partially account for the different sound.  He could have changed the bolt to where he could fire .22 caliber rounds.  .22 caliber rounds are much cheaper and are more plentiful and can do enough damage to a body, to render it dead or severely wounded.
The .223 or 5.56 NATO round when it hits bone will flatten out and tumble like a razor blade in the body.  The other variables are videos taken from different positions amongst buildings, will give you different echo's bouncing off the different structures.  People taking videos are at varying distances and in different positions will increase the variables, hence the different sounds.  The maximum EFFECTIVE range is 400 meters for the M-16 or AR-15.  He could have had a bump stock or even a crank attached to the trigger to make it like an automatic.  He could also pull the trigger very fast which could sound like automatic fire.

Having worked armed security after my stints in the military, law enforcement/corrections and then armed security...security outside the military and corrections is a joke her in the states.  That is a whole different story in itself.

Do not overlook the fact that several rifles were reported to be AR-10's, which fire 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester) the same as an M60...

Quote from: The Seeker on February 18, 2018, 09:31:52 PM
Do not overlook the fact that several rifles were reported to be AR-10's, which fire 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester) the same as an M60...

Yeah, I forgot to mention those also.  7.62 are messy but very effective...

I would say very effective, mav: I have fired an M60 before, and with military ball ammo the .308 is very lethal at 1,000 yards...

Has there been anything Stateside that updates the official / unofficial narrative to this event folks? 

I recently saw some YouTube conspiracy links about the Saudia Arabia purge of Princes and succession to the SA thrown, also some YT on 3 x Helicopters involved but I couldn't make head nor tail of the motive they were pushing for this, and I wondered if you guys/gals had been following any other theories and leads?

Cheers,
Fans'

Quote from: fansongecho on May 17, 2018, 12:35:09 PM
Has there been anything Stateside that updates the official / unofficial narrative to this event folks?

Maybe this (https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/witness-reports-give-insight-into-las-vegas-shooting/)?

Is there a link missing ArMap on your reply?? or where you being obtuse buddy?

The link is there, I just clicked it. ???

Click "quote" to see if it shows it.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/witness-reports-give-insight-into-las-vegas-shooting/ (http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/witness-reports-give-insight-into-las-vegas-shooting/)

This is the link ArMap put there.

ArMap.. soz..  I didn't see the link on my page.. and thanks for the link  :) :)

///

Spacemaverick - cheers for the full link that I could see  :) :)

Quote from: ArMaP on February 17, 2018, 06:59:55 PM

He had 14 AR-15s (around 3 Kg), 8 AR-10s (between 3 and 4 Kg), a Ruger American bolt-action rifle (around 3 Kg) and a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver.

Casinos have 20 cameras covering ever square inch of floor space.  HOW did he get all these weapons into the room with no one seeing him?  Hmmmm?

They have videos over a period of time that show bell hops bringing in luggage at different times.  Either their security stinks or someone else knew what was going to happen.  When I get some time I will try and compile some up to date videos.  It seems the formatting here has changed because I tried putting up a video on the MH 370 breaking news and it only showed the link...

Quote from: spacemaverick on May 19, 2018, 03:58:40 AM
  It seems the formatting here has changed because I tried putting up a video on the MH 370 breaking news and it only showed the link...

yeah it changed but ArMaP fixed it  just paste the entire URL and it will load

https  ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mgfhVQ1GyA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mgfhVQ1GyA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94IRiJjURn0

I posted this in John's section and got no replies :P  So I will repost it here

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Utah/John_Lear.jpg)
John Lear
2 hrs ago on Facebook

More Fake News from the dementia infected brain of the Godfather of Conspiracy John Lear. The management disavows any knowledge of the following news release and implores people not to believe it.

With he resignation of Steve Wynn as CEO of his company for sexual improprieties over a thirty year period, using his employees as his personal sex choices, the question is, Who is Next?'

The next industry mogul to fall from grace will possibly be Sherman Adelson, owner of the Las Vegas Review Journal and presumably the person in charge of the RJ's wholesale capitulation to the FBIA and their dishonesty concerning the 'lone shooter' in the alleged 'massacre' Oct. 1st of last year.

Now that there is a question of who the dead man in Steven Paddocks room was with the Clark County Coroner refusing to sign off on an autopsy of the alleged body pf Steven Paddock local sources are demanding that Adelson be held accountable for his newspapers dishonesty and refusal to print the facts that make it likely there was more than one shooter and that the alleged 'one shooter' was not Stephen Paddock..

Adelson who allegedly bought the Las Vegas Review Journal just so he could fire John Smith, a reporter who wrote critical although factual stories about Sherman Adelson., apparently had no newspaper experience or plans for the paper after firing Smith.

But after firing Smith was Adelson ready to assume the helm of Las Vegas largest newspaper? Whoever was at the helm October 1st, 2017 appeared to print the daily disinformation issued from the FBIA. and refused to hold the FBIA accountable for the inconsistencies of their news releases.

Every single issue of the RJ called Stephen Paddock, 'the lone gunman' without the slightest bit of evidence. On the contrary there was ample evidence that there were at least 2 shooters and very likely more than 2 shooters.

However the Las Vegas Review Journal under he direction of Sherman Adelson had become the FBIAs mouthpiece and house organ issuing forth everyday with more nonsense none of which supported the lone gunman theory.

The local FBIA office chief thug stood behind Sheriff Lombardo with a smug, self satisfied smile, as the sheriff made a public statement obviously written by the FBIA. Some say the sheriff appeared to have a gun in his back held by the FBIA office thug.

Will Adelson apologize for his newspapers wholesale capitulation to the FBIA when and if it is proven that not only was Stephen Paddock not the dead man found in his room but that Stephen Paddock never fired a shot from his 32nd story window from which not one single video showed a muzzle flash on that Oct. 1 evening.

In their February 7 issue this morning the Las Vegas Review Journal on page 8B Business prints under headline 'Mandalay Bay renumbering floor liked to massacre' prints: a shooter used a suite on the 32nd floor to kill 58 people...' Whats this? A shooter? Not Stephen Paddock anymore?

Its true. The RJ editorial staff morons have backed off 5 solid months of accusing Stephen Paddock as being the lone gunman now use 'a shooter?'

Nice going you RJ editorial staff morons. What next, not quite 58 dead?

I posted this one just now as the latest post in this story. I will pull up the other posts John made regarding the Vegas Shooting. There are a LOT of questions about it...

I do like John's disclaimer LOL  keeps us safe  :-X

BREAKING: LAS VEGAS SHOOTER INVESTIGATION JUST TOOK AN UNEXPECTED TURN

Posted 4 days ago

Months after the Las Vegas shooting, the FBI has finally arrested the second person of interest, Douglas Haig.

Knowledge of the second person of interest became available to the public after a judge ordered 300 pages of search warrant records to be released.

http://maganews.io/article.asp?id=115925

VEGAS MYSTERY DEEPENS: Coroner REFUSES to RELEASE Gunman's Autopsy

QuoteIn yet another stunning twist into the investigation of Stephen Paddock's Las Vegas rampage, the Clark County coroner's office is refusing to release the gunman's autopsy; saying they won't disclose the report until "ordered to" by a District Judge.

According to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, the coroner's office has desperately fought to keep the official autopsy of Stephen Paddock's body confidential, going so far as to pay out $32,000 in legal fees to fight those seeking to view the findings.

This week, a Las Vegas court ordered the Clark County office to release the records but has so far failed to comply; claiming they were waiting for the legal decision to be "finalized."

"I don't believe this is consistent with what the court ordered," said an attorney on behalf of those seeking to view the report. "They have delayed this for too long, and whatever stage the coroner's report on Paddock is in, it should be provided to the Review-Journal and Associated Press without further delay. No more games. Release the records."

"(The judge) also rejected arguments by the coroner's office that there were any privacy interests with regards to the autopsy of Stephen Paddock, let alone any that outweighed the strong presumption of access to records in Nevada," added the lawyer.

The coroner's decision to withhold the autopsy raises even more questions as speculation swirls surrounding the case. Local law enforcement have released little information regarding Paddock's rampage; the worst mass shooting in American history.

https://www.hannity.com/media-room/vegas-mystery-deepens-coroner-refuses-to-release-gunmans-autopsy/

I have it all collected here... John hasn't posted anything new in a while

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/02files/John_Lear_Las_Vegas_Shooting.html

Thanks Zorgon.  This was another interesting and baffling situation as are some others.  Thanks to ArMap for the fix.  I want to go over the Mandalay Bay situation because something does not sit right in my gut with this.