So the Egyptians had a Zodiac wheel and it is said that their knowledge of the 12 signs was learned from the Greeks who learned it from the Babylonians.
(click on image for full size)
(https://thothastrology.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/dendera_zodiac.jpg)
They built upon this knowledge by things such as the 24 hour day, sun dials and water clocks. They also replaced the Greek deities with their own gods.
They obviously were pretty well versed in Astrology and Astronomy.
Here comes the mystery -
When Napoleon decided to visit Egypt, he brought along many trade professionals including draftsmen who etched plates of what they saw. 40 volumes worth actually.
Later photos of what they drew confirmed the accuracy of their plates. All 40 volumes can be viewed online.
The curious part is plate 6 in volume II -
https://www.edition-originale.com/en/prints-engravings-photographs/description-de-legypte-1809/-description-de-legypte-thebes-1809-26091 (https://www.edition-originale.com/en/prints-engravings-photographs/description-de-legypte-1809/-description-de-legypte-thebes-1809-26091)
(click on image for full size)
(https://www.edition-originale.com/media/h-3000-chabrol_description-de-legypte-thebes-byban-el-molouk-bas-reliefs-sculptes-et_1809_edition-originale_0_26091.jpg)
So what are the 2 planets in the same orbit above his head?
Before you say the Sun and Moon, remember the Sun God Aten is always displayed in heiroglyphs with rays emanating.
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/HRKJAN/akhenaton-with-aten-egyptian-sun-god-HRKJAN.jpg)
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/B10N3D/akhenaton-in-the-form-of-a-sphinx-worshipping-the-rays-of-aten-18th-B10N3D.jpg)
So I tried locating any pictures of this hieroglyph with no luck, in hopes of seeing more of the top part to see what else is on that orbit.
DESCRIPTION DE L'EGYPTE. Thèbes
Translation of the page says :
DESCRIPTION OF EGYPT. Thebes. Bybân el Molouk. Carved and painted bas-reliefs in the fifth and fourth tombs of the kings to the west, bas-reliefs of the fifth tomb to the east. (ANTIQUITES, volume II, plate 84)
Imperial Printing, Paris 1809-1829, 71x53,5cm, a sheet.
Original etching in plano, untrimmed, extracted from the edition called "Imperial" of the Description of Egypt or Collection of the observations and researches made in Egypt during the French expedition, published by the orders of His Majesty the Emperor Napoleon the Great .
Made between February 1802 and 1829 by order of Napoleon Bonaparte and published from 1809 [actually 1810], it was printed 1000 copies on Vergé watermarked "ancient and modern Egypt " and offered to institutions.
So since these guys were up on their Astrology and Astronomy, what could those 2 planets represent, and are there any more depicted above?
my first reaction is binary suns
but 51, what photo are you referring to exactly..cause i'm not sure
Quote from: space otter on June 12, 2018, 04:12:20 AM
my first reaction is binary suns
but 51, what photo are you referring to exactly..cause i'm not sure
I just fixed the photo explanation above.
Quote from: A51Watcher on June 12, 2018, 04:15:13 AM
I just fixed the photo explanation above.
I still don't understand which one are we supposed to look at.
Anyway, here's a much better version of that image.
(click for full size)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/descript2_084.jpg)
Quote from: ArMaP on June 12, 2018, 11:14:45 PM
I still don't understand which one are we supposed to look at.
Anyway, here's a much better version of that image.
(click for full size)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/descript2_084.jpg)
I would say it is the one standing in the bottom middle photo, of the dude with the erection, appears to be 2 planetary orbs depicted in the sky on either side of him
Quote from: The Seeker on June 13, 2018, 12:49:25 AM
I would say it is the one standing in the bottom middle photo, of the dude with the erection, appears to be 2 planetary orbs depicted in the sky on either side of him
I suppose that's the one, but I like to be sure. :)
51 can you say where that came from or anything else about it?
they did have a god named min who was depicted with an erection
obviously a fertility god
but i don't think that is who this is..just guessing, mind you
but it looks like he is between the moon and the sun
and if the three stars were in a line i would say orion's belt
but as a triangle.. i don't know
what can you tell us
Very interesting, but I, too, am clueless. Since I was a kid I've wished I could read hieroglyphics.
That little dude looks like he's hanging from the guy's penis. There's a very subtle line, but it could be just a continuation of the line on the right.
Doesn't it look like the little guys on the left and the right are catching spheres from the stars?
Looks to me like those "two" objects might be just one on an orbital path.
Sorry about the spacing. Something's whacked, but I can't fix it.
Sky,
If you search DESCRIPTION DE L'EGYPTE. Thèbes
You get a page in French.
Click on translate and you get -
DESCRIPTION OF EGYPT. Thebes. Bybân el Molouk. Carved and painted bas-reliefs in the fifth and fourth tombs of the kings to the west, bas-reliefs of the fifth tomb to the east. (ANTIQUITES, volume II, plate 84)
Imperial Printing, Paris 1809-1829, 71x53,5cm, a sheet.
Original etching in plano, untrimmed, extracted from the edition called "Imperial" of the Description of Egypt or Collection of the observations and researches made in Egypt during the French expedition, published by the orders of His Majesty the Emperor Napoleon the Great .
Made between February 1802 and 1829 by order of Napoleon Bonaparte and published from 1809 [actually 1810], it was printed 1000 copies on Vergé watermarked "ancient and modern Egypt " and offered to institutions.
That's all I can find.
Doing a google image search of hieroglyphs penis or erection brings up several guys like this but none with planets in orbit like this guy.
The orbit on this one appears to continue up over his head but maybe not since the artists did not include it.
Irene,
Yep the little guys do seem to be catching orbs.
I am just surprised there are no actual photos of this glyph to study and see theories by others.
Yes could be one planet in 2 different positions of orbit.
Without further info hard to tell much of anything.
Okay, this is out there and pure speculation.
The orbiting object passes by stars, which then shoot eggs to the little dudes. The little dudes shoot the eggs at "Penis Man" who fertilizes them and makes little people.
Okay, flame me. ;D
Quote from: A51Watcher on June 13, 2018, 07:02:06 PM
Irene,
Yep the little guys do seem to be catching orbs.
I am just surprised there are no actual photos of this glyph to study and see theories by others.
Yes could be one planet in 2 different positions of orbit.
Without further info hard to tell much of anything.
Well, remember, a lot of historical material has been outright destroyed. The remainder is probably in the basement of the f'ing useless twat Vatican.
A51,
You don't like my theory?
Quote from: Irene on June 13, 2018, 07:48:47 PM
A51,
You don't like my theory?
Sure. I like all theories cause they get me thinking.
Yours got me thinking the little guys on the right might be catching meteorites from the stars. The Egyptians highly valued them.
But the little guys on the left seem to be catching from the orbit, not stars.
Frustratingly there is no car touche or any text indicating who the main guy is.
Armap - Thanks for the better resolution! 8)
Well Irene,
Since this one seems to be about fertility and we have a little guy connected to his penis, your theory seems to be more on track than mine.
Maybe the position of the planet indicates what time is best for fertility.
eta: Position of the Moon instead of Sun since there are no emanating rays.
And there are 12 of those little guys holding eggs.
And the larger guy at the bottom has a line to his penis that continues to the dude hanging from his penis.
I would question the idea that this image was intended to be of literal space. I think it was more likely a symbolic illustration of some kind. That being the case, the two spheres probably do not represent planets, but something else.
I would encourage some research into the writing of R.A. Schwaller, for people who are interested in the Egyptians. Schwaller demonstrated that the Egyptians thought in an extremely different manner to the way we do, and that said manner is actually very difficult to translate, not least because it requires accepting the existence of things which most of us do not.
For example, people talk about the Egyptians having "beliefs," regarding the Afterlife, but for the Egyptians it was not a matter of what we would call belief, in the sense that "belief," usually implies a degree of doubt. The Egyptians had absolutely no doubt about their ideas whatsoever. They took it for granted that the Afterlife was real, to exactly the same extent that we assume that the sun is going to come up tomorrow morning.
Do I blindly idealise the Egyptians? Probably more than I should, yes; but still not to a complete extent. The heirophants and Pharoahs were still tyrannical by our standards. Even though I think the Pharoahs probably did treat their tomb builders well, at 50 feet or more off the ground, in 40+ C degree heat, there are still going to be accidents, and somewhat large numbers of them; and that goes double for gigantic underground tombs like KV5. Sandstone can be very hard, but it really isn't the most stable rock in the world, because at the end of the day it's just compressed sand. If you look, you'll notice that the UK's standing stones are generally much better preserved than the Egyptian stuff, and many of those are either of the same age or older.
ok was in the middle of doing some searches and the tv says tornado near by so i'm done for now
here's how far i got but i don't think it means anything and not a good line of inquiry later dudes
........................
ok so let just pick it apart
lots of info at the links listed if anyone is into reading about it
this is what we know from A51
Thebes. Bybân el Molouk. Carved and painted bas-reliefs in the fifth and fourth tombs of the kings to the west, bas-reliefs of the fifth tomb to the east. (ANTIQUITES, volume II, plate 84)
so who's tomb was it and what were they trying to say
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El-Tarif
and contains tombs of the late First Intermediate Period, Second Intermediate Period and early Middle Kingdom. Old Kingdommastabas are possibly attributed to local rulers of the Fourth or Fifth Dynasty.[1]Eleventh Dynasty (2040-1991 B.C.E.) tombs of local rulers have also been noted in the form of a series of pyramids dated to 2061-2010 B.C.E, the largest of which are Intef I to Intef III, who were kings of this dynasty.[4]
The Theban dynasty ruled from Thebes, which was the capital of Upper Egypt. Intef I was a local Egyptian ruler at Thebes. He was a member of the 11th Dynasty during the First Intermediate Period. He was the first ruler who adopted the title of Pharaoh. He was an important nomarch and his name finds mention in Thutmose III's chapel. Intef II who was also called a Pharaoh was his brother who ruled for 50 years from 2112 to 2063 B.C.E. This dynasty developed a particular type of burial tombs which were called the saff-tomb or rock-tomb; saff in Arabic means "rows." These were built by the rulers of the New Kingdom and they buried their dead in saff-tombs at the necropolis at El-Tarif.[4][5] All of their tombs are in dilapidated condition, given their age.[6]
so maybe it's this Intef guy and it is showing he produced many sons and they were all gods
this is on the side of the report
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Funerary_stele_of_Intef_II.jpg/220px-Funerary_stele_of_Intef_II.jpg
with a link to here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thebes,_Egypt
The Ancient Egyptians originally knew Thebes as Wo'se or Wase. A was was the scepter of the pharaohs, a long staff with an animal's head and a forked base. From the end of the New Kingdom, Thebes was known in Egyptian as Niwt-'Imn, the "City of Amun". Amun was the chief of the Theban Triad of gods whose other members were Mut and Khonsu. This name of Thebes appears in the Bible as the "Nōʼ ʼĀmôn" (נא אמון) of the Book of Nahum[4] and also as the "No" (נא) mentioned in Ezekiel[5] and Jeremiah.[6][7]
First Intermediate Period[edit]
By 2160 BC, a new line of pharaohs (the Ninth and Tenth Dynasties) consolidated Lower Egypt and northern parts of Upper Egypt from their capital in Herakleopolis Magna. A rival line (the Eleventh Dynasty) based at Thebes ruled the remaining part of Upper Egypt. The Theban rulers were apparently descendants of the prince of Thebes, Intef the Elder. His probable grandson Intef I was the first of the family to claim in life a partial pharaonic titulary, though his power did not extend much further than the general Theban region.
obviously the 'line' of heirs was important..so a new search looking for this intef line and/or he is saying that he is from one of their three major gods Amun, Mut, Khonsu...all are linked so I'll come back after looking for Intel the elder (also linked) and intel 1
interesting info but not helpful to this question
http://www.ancientegypt.eu/1-intermediate-period/intef1.php
Intef I.
WRITTEN BY FELGR PAVEL ON 25 MARCH 2013.
http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/articles/article_2.2.html
https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/ancient-egypt/pictures/egyptian-relief-sculpture-and-paintings/tomb-of-kheti-in-beni-hasan-necropolis
ok how about wall art in the tomb of intef I
and some more searches
ok back to the gods
I do find it amusing that when discussing possible Ancients BEFORE the Egyptians... we use main stream archaeology sources :P
That is similar to using NASA photos to prove NASA is hiding stuff...
Just sayin :P
::)
(https://scontent.flas1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34985075_1961364303938599_1104123963090403328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeHrbntQjhfmAro4XxtT79jSxIKwj6O1tZcV-DU_gJchgnSVuuHSCh0fo6RSbp3hRnRd-DZl8fJADlOyKk-Q9w8UBVay66S_yQqRX4yBKcMDjw&oh=74252de93e2d1cd394926abaf5334c78&oe=5BB502A4)
yeah :P well you can't use what you don't have ;D so we're kind stuck
i thought if we could figure out what tomb that was in we might stand a chance to figure out more.. but i was going in circles
sigh
Okay, not feeling too hot, my fat ass has been on the couch for days. Over the past 24 hours I've scoured image searches and looked at hundreds of pics.
The algorithms really blow because I plugged in the Third, Fourth, and Fifth Dynasties as some of the search terms, and what kept popping up?
Blasted Tutankhamen and Akhenaten.
The translation of the French looks good. I know a bit of Latin, so I can sort of fumble through the Romance languages. Not Portuguese though. That's a damn mystery. ;D Same for Romanian. My ancestors would be ashamed.
Anyway, I will stay on the hunt.
Quote from: space otter on June 14, 2018, 06:54:39 PM
yeah :P well you can't use what you don't have ;D so we're kind stuck
i thought if we could figure out what tomb that was in we might stand a chance to figure out more.. but i was going in circles
sigh
That has been the problem :D
If it wasn't for the fact that in today's world there are many people on their own going out to the actual sites and taking pictures we would be really stuck.. Brien Forster; Graham Hancock; Mohamed Ibrahim and others
There are a couple groups on facebook that all these guys frequent and post all the good stuff. I just need more time to go through it
I just looked now and Here is an example: This is one I had never seen before just now. Its on the ceiling at the Dendera temple so I suppose fits with the Zodiac thread :P
Mohamed Ibrahim
June 12 at 8:08pm ·
Question:
Do you think the decoration on the ceiling of Dendera temple was made before they built the ceiling or after ??
(https://scontent.flas1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35164886_10155322949105836_7315466161456414720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeEp2hdTiaDxrc1PxhpVkcV7Irbx4-3nM2pOH48MggXSEmbVdYOQBCeDIKM12nn75kMX0Yz2dBky89L2nzbOFQKKZ9B5-eFuWFidPuK4V_YaIA&oh=cd9901b2efe872ea465192b358b2b40b&oe=5BB76D03)
The Khemit School of Ancient Mysticism
This is the main group Brien Forster, Graham Hancock, Jonny Enoch and Mohamed Ibrahim and many others on the same hunt as us hang out there. I will start bringing more works over here. I have been slack in following that
The Khemit School of Ancient Mysticism
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Khemitology/
Mohamed Ibrahim: Runs Egyptian tours with tghe express focus on looking at all the odd things
Studied Egyptology at Tourism and Hotels Faculty .Hellwan University
Lives in Giza
From Badrashên, Al Jizah, Egypt
https://www.facebook.com/itkapt
Brien Forster:
Hidden Inca Tours
Studied Sciences: biology, chemistry, mathematics and physics at University of Victoria
Lives in Cuzco, Cusco, Peru
https://www.facebook.com/Shipibospirit
Jonny Enoch
Founder at Metaphysical Source
Works at Clinical Hypnotherapy
Lives in Vancouver, British Columbia
Jonny travels the world and has collected a lot of material from Manly Hall and others. A while back he and Hancock and others were working on a presentation about that odd wheel device found in Egypt I am waiting the results
(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2191586714201546&set=a.437333322960236.117356.100000507175960&type=3&theater)
Graham Hancock:
https://www.facebook.com/GrahamHancockDotCom?ref=br_rs
ok after continuing my search i have come to the conclusion that the original pic from A51 is not astrological but a story being told about some one's life or life connections
sooooooooooooooooo if we could get more info as to where that image was found we might learn more..
for now..done :(
so here's where i went if anyone is interested
https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Intef+I
from reading here I don't think it was on a tomb wall..maybe somewhere else
but searching egyptian astrology depicted in tombs
takes me this way
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/408138784951148832/
More information
One of the oldest astrological artifacts depicting a horoscope is the Egyptian Zodiac of Dendera dated to 50bc, which was discovered on the ceiling of the Temple of Hathor in Dendera of Central Egypt. The Zodiac of Dendera depicts aspects of Nile Valley astronomy, astrology, agriculture and calendar making. It has two circles of figures in its design. The inner circle of figures move counter-clockwise like the stars, showing the astrological signs of the zodiac circling the North Pole
http://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-ancient-writings/iconic-dendera-zodiac-ancient-egypt-oldest-horoscope-world-007460
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendera_zodiac
Dendera zodiac
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Louvre_122006_019.jpg/220px-Louvre_122006_019.jpg)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Coordinates: 26°8′30″N 32°40′13″E
The Dendera zodiac as displayed at the LouvreThe sculptured Dendera zodiac (or Denderah zodiac) is a widely known Egyptian bas-relief from the ceiling of the pronaos (or portico) of a chapel dedicated to Osiris in the Hathor temple at Dendera, containing images of Taurus (the bull) and the Libra (the scales). This chapel was begun in the late Ptolemaic period; its pronaos was added by the emperor Tiberius. This led Jean-François Champollion to date the relief correctly to the Greco-Roman period, but most of his contemporaries believed it to be of the New Kingdom. The relief, which John H. Rogers characterised as "the only complete map that we have of an ancient sky",[1] has been conjectured to represent the basis on which later astronomy systems were based.[2] It is now on display at the Musée du Louvre, Paris.