Pegasus Research Consortium

Just some further thoughts on Bob Lazars description and theories on How the Saucer relates to the Gravity Theories to create anti gravity.

Before I got to know about Bob Lazar... I had a bit of Physics understanding... and little Chemistry understanding about Atoms or atomic structure... and I dont think my knowledge is much greater now..

I dont think I really had much of a grasp or understanding on Bobs description of his Gravity Descriptions..
other than being more aware of what he describes as 'Gravity B" which as being as the forece of gravity that we are taught at basic school level... like Newtons story of how an apple falls from its tree branch to the ground via gravity due to Earths attraction.

I dont think that I had ever really thought about gravity holding an Atoms parts together...

but thinking more about things,,,

We are aware of  How Gravity effects our Earth and the Planets within our solar system and how our Earth and the planets rotate around our Sun..which is on a larger scale..

which is actually very similar maybe to how the atomic world of an atom is on a VERY minor scale

and an atom has a nucleus  at the centre of its structure.. that may relate similar to how our Sun is the centre of our solar system...

(https://www.ou.org/jewish_action/files/solar-system.jpg)

and how an atoms elections.... orbit around the atoms nucleus similar to how planets rotate around our Sun.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EnqmSS0duHA/TK5XcHF4vHI/AAAAAAAAAAs/yXWlPWIysvI/s1600/gw3512,1262037475,atom.jpg)

or

(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/j/1/u/L/W/U/atom-nucleus-electrons-hi.png)


So the gravity effects on the planets around the Sun keeps the planets in their orbits which is maybe seen as "Gravity B"
similar to the gravity we experience holding us down on Earth..


and like wise the gravity force within an atom... keeps its elections in their orbits around the atoms nucleus.


BUT and THIS MAYBE IMPORTANT !!!

On Earth... Bob Suggests that "Gravity A" which is to do with  gravity effects on Atoms  ... that it is a much STRONGER Force than "Gravity B"  which relates to Gravity as we experience on Earth holding us to the surface of our planet Earth. and he says "Gravity B" is a weaker Force..

I dont think that Id ever really thought about "Gravity A"  that relates to atomic structure or bonding...in relation to just how strong a force it is in Comparision to Earth like "Gravity B"

I am not sure if ever at School anyone ever really explained about "Gravity A" to me or that it was some sort of different STRONGER TYPE gravity that bonded Atoms together.. that was any different than the general gravty that we experience on Earth...

Does or was anyone else on PRC aware of the two differences before becoming aware of Bobs description of it ?

IF "Gravity A" is so strong...in comparision to "Gravity B" of the Earths gravity....


INITIALLY MY QUESTION IS WHY ?   is it Stronger ???

But THEN if you could some how manipulate it... and INVERSE its effects...

I think I maybe able to understand what Bob may mean..

Bascally that  if you inverse the effects of the atomic bonding of the Saucers atoms within  the materials that it is made of..... that they can can then REPEL and act against "Gravity B" of the Much less strong Earths gravity..

and then you get the Saucer or Craft to act against  the Earths gravity as we know it...

and  then I think that you get ANTI Gravity !

Is this what this Photo is representing !

NOTE  :   The White Arrows in the Photo... are representing the "Gravity A" effects acting Downwards (or repelling and opposing the direction of force) from  Crafts materials  Atoms....

So those Gravity FORCE effects are acting Downwards. that in turns pushes the Craft Upwards... and Opposing the Earths lesser "Gravity B" that is Normaly acting Downwards..

Is the effects of  Earths  "Gravity B" also being inversed and act in an upwards direction rather than its normal downwards direction by being attracted to the Crafts Material atoms.. and hence pushing the craft upwards rather than holding it downwards...


(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/orbit.jpg)

Look at the color of the arrows.. how they are acting...

WHITE ARROWS = "GRAVITY A"  The SAUCER CRAFTS  ATOMS Gravity effects.. with its gravity force now acting downwards.. and opposing the Earth by pushing against the Earth...that in turn gives  the Crafts materials atoms lift..

and dont forget this force of "Gravity A" Crafts materal atoms  effect is MUCH STRONGER than  the Earths "Gravity B"

and instead of falling as quick and wih the same force normal objects fall to earth...  it is doing the opposite and rising with the same force and speed and direction  as an object would normally  fall ...

SO it needs to be controlled somehow if and when it hovers...or does not want to just go straight upwards non stop into space.. hence  a crafts use of its 3 amplifiers.... if using just one could allow the craft to just hover..

BLACK ARROWS = "GRAVITY B "  (The Earths gravity)... (reversing and acting upwards instead of its normal downward effect)

I am not sure if the Crafts gravity Ampflifiers are also able to inverse the effects acting on the craft by altering the direction of the earths gravity..  In doing so I suspect only in relation to the surrounding area of the Craft..

but Im not sure how it be if say the craft is 32 miles high up...

that is hard for me to try to understand..or believe possible..

Is this to do with the Gravity Amplifiers somehow altering or inversing (or reversing its phase shift 180 degrees for eg so the atomic gravity effects act in the opposite way) the effects of "Gravity A" atomic bonding  within the Crafts atoms within its materials that its made off.. .. that then repel and oppose "Gravity B" Earths gravity effects to allow it to act as anti Gravity..

0-90° Phase-Shift = Amount of Lift or Repulsion

90-180° Phase-Shift = Amount of Attraction

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/pulse.jpg)

My Question then if it is  so..

Is HOW does the Gravity Amplifiers WORK to alter the  "Gravity B" effects on the Crafts Materials atoms ?

IF that is actually Possible..

Also there is ref to the

    The Microwave Analogy

which I think also could relate to the Earths magnetic Field  as it refers to a magnetic wave..

or its referring to Microwave within the Electro magnetic spectrum..

I have not yet fully tried to study this part and need to try to do so in further detail. in how it may relate to some of the other parts that I have posted.

Quote

    Compare the similar graphical patterns the disc as a waveguide and Transverse Magnetic waves in a circular waveguide. Notice the form the gravity wave takes as it is guided up and around the disc. Notice also microwaves in TM11 mode, using cylindrical waveguides. Revolve this cross section and the result is a spherical waveguide which would be geometry of our sportmodel. The natural patterns are surprisingly similar. It is also interesting that the most disruptive of waves occur just outside the elliptical area. This disruption usually results in the air around the disc ionizing, producing the legendary silent bright light.

QuoteTransverse magnetic waves in a circular waveguide in TM11 mode. Rotate this pattern and you have a spherical waveguide in remarkably similar   proportions to the Reticulan craft and the wave-guided distortion around the disc.

Microwaves, light waves, and gravity waves all behave similarly in regard to being guided and lensed.   Many models and graphic analogies can be derived from comparing these forms of radiation.

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/electrom.html





Then his thories may well be correct and its not as hard to understand maybe as I thought if I am understanding it correctly !.


I think some on PRC have already understood this ..

But maybe some had not quite considered it this way..

I have spent some further time trying to read thru and gain a better or further understanding of the written Material on the version of Bob Lazar original website .

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/home.html

I will say that prior to doing this, that I did really understand some parts of it to do with How the craft worked in relation to being able to fly or levitate in relation to how the Element 115 and reactor created not just the nuclear like reaction that I was maybe mainly familiar with.... but more to do with how the various Gravity effects were  either created or how they were suggested to be used in relation to the operation of the craft in how it is able to create or use both "Gravity A" and "Gravity B" WAVES to lift , levitate or fly which ever way one wants to describe it...

I was partially aware of some of the facts... but I do think after today that I have learned or maybe understood better certain suggested facts..in how its suggested to operate or work in order to operate the craft..

In ref to "Gravity A waves" ... I was only made more aware of some basic facts about them, but  that I never really understood how they came to be or how they were used.

One basic description is that they were seen by main Science more as a "Strong Nuclear Force" that bonded Atoms together. The term Nuclear Force was devised since the 1930s, but the term "strong nuclear force" is from the 1970s...according to ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_force

But what I did not realise was that as the nuclear material  used was Element 115, its been suggested  that at the time as an unknown Element or suggested that it is from an off Earth location or from another planet maybe from another galaxy..  and  that the "Gravity A" wave  effects  are from within the Element... and that the gravity waves do actually act outside the elements atoms basic structure.... where as Most EARTH Like elements..which are held together by "Gravity A waves" or Nuclear forces only act WITHIN side the atoms   materials....

and its the fact that the "Gravity A waves" from the Element 115 are what is said to be unique to enable the waves to be used in a way to aid the Saucer  Craft to be able to use them to operate in the way that they do.. in order to use them to work in relation to the Earths own natural " Gravity B waves "

The element 115... does two main things... when in operation with the crafts reactor..

It creates the power thru being being bombarded by other protons fired within the reactor to obtain another proton and make it Element 116 for a short period that in turn that reaction creates a reaction to produce heat or radiation and for a short while small amounts of ANTIMATTER that later reacts with a gaseos matter that converts to power the craft...  but also the reaction also creates the "Gravity A wave"

QuoteThe flux of antimatter particles produced in the reactor are channeled down an evacuated, tuned tube (which keeps it from contacting with the matter that surrounds it) and reacted with a gaseous matter target. This Total Annihilation reaction is the most efficient and energetic nuclear reaction there is. The more familiar nuclear reactions are Fission, producing energy from the splitting of atoms as used in nuclear reactors & atomic bombs, and Fusion, the fusing or combining of atoms (typically hydrogen nuclei) to release even more energy. Fusion is the reaction that powers the sun and other stars and is what gives hydrogen bombs their "punch". These two more common nuclear reactions are dwarfed by the power and efficiency of the annihilation reaction used in the alien reactor.

The reaction between the gaseous matter target and the antimatter particles produces a continuos release of tremendous amounts of heat. This heat is converted directly into electricity by the use of a thermionic Generator. The Thermeonic generator used in this reactor is so efficient, that there is no detectable waste heat produced. This is an apparent violation of one of the basic laws of thermodynamics. Similar, but not nearly as efficient or powerful, thermionic generators are used as power sources in our satellites and space probes.

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/reactor.html


It was suggested that we did not know about "Gravity A waves" until the Aliens told the Scientists at S4...

so if thats the case thats why more than likely we never new about them from School....

I wanted to try to find that out if anyone was not aware !

So I find that would be VERY interesting.... if True !

I think this webpages explains a lot if you can follow and try to understand it..


http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/bigwedge.html

It seems its suggested that the Craft  when it produces the Gravity A waves... are the able to work in relation with the Earths "Gravity B waves" and that the craft can sort of float on the waves like a ship floats on water..

but the gravity waves are not only operating at one level like water waves do in relation to being fixed to Earths surface levels. The gravity wave effects can operate at various levels above the earths surface or within the Earths atmosphere at various levels.. hence why the craft can float on them as it rises up at higher levels above the earths surface.

The other thing that I found of interest is that the gravity waves are seen as Electro magnetic waves.. like light , microwaves etc...  and that they can be attracted around the craft that can make it invisible...

which this link trys to explain

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/electrom.html

The one thing at the moment that I cannot seem to find however is information on the Ampflifiers and how they work or effect the craft in terms of increasing the gravity waves strength or size..

I can see how the ampfliers operate to control the direction of the craft.. but it does not indicate how they increase the gravity wave effects..

This gives a  basic description of what various types of amplifiers do..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier

There are some other websites that have been created that show other created images that are not from Bobs original website..


(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/bridge.jpg)


(http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/fj-3/f-spacecraft-gravitycontrol-.JPG)

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/fj-3/f-spacecraft-gravitycontrol-.JPG


(http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Bob_Lazar_S4_Disc_Images/Gravity_Amplifier_and_Core_Plates.gif)

(http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Bob_Lazar_S4_Disc_Images/Gravity_Amplifier.gif)


(http://www.pearltrees.com/s/pic/or/bob-lazar-82373604)

There is also a ref to WAVE GUIDE...that is shown in more detail in a picture on the the more recent updated Bob Lazar website that I was unable to obtain an original picture of it from the website.. but I have found these images elswhere



(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.hXYGAMCDtGht4cE2vVPtIAHaEv&pid=Api)

www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.hXYGAMCDtGht4cE2vVPtIAHaEv&pid=Api


(http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Bob_Lazar_S4_Disc_Images/Gravity_Waveguide.gif)


I dont think that I had also really understood what the function of this had been also... but now have a better understanding as it seems to be something that allows gravity waves to surround the whole craft.

There is a mention of a Thermionic like Generator used within the craft... but I dont think there are diagrams that show where it is positioned within the craft or in relation to the reactor as shown on Bobs websites..

Quote
The reaction between the gaseous matter target and the antimatter particles produces a continuos release of tremendous amounts of heat. This heat is converted directly into electricity by the use of a thermionic Generator. The Thermeonic generator used in this reactor is so efficient, that there is no detectable waste heat produced. This is an apparent violation of one of the basic laws of thermodynamics. Similar, but not nearly as efficient or powerful, thermionic generators are used as power sources in our satellites and space probes.

But this website shows something about it.. that I recall seeing before some time ago , .that seems very good..


http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Gravity_Generator.htm

more info on Bob and the Saucer Sports  model Craft..

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/


Below is tw versions from Wikipedia about Gravity waves or Gravitaional waves that vary !

I assume Gravitational wave description is more relevant to this thread... I am not sure why they class two descriptions..

The articles seem to suggest gravity waves have only in recent last few years been acknowledged..but were proposed back in the early 1900s.. and also Albert Einstein in 1916.....

Quote
Gravity waves were first proposed by Henri Poincaré in 1905[1] and subsequently predicted in 1916[2][3] by Albert Einstein on the basis of his general theory of relativity.

On 11 February 2016, the LIGO and Virgo Scientific Collaboration announced they had made the first observation of gravitational waves. The observation itself was made on 14 September 2015, using the Advanced LIGO detectors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_wave


Those was just some things that I thought were worth mentioning...for now !

I don't claim to understand the details, but the short version is that there are three basic prerequisites.

a}  The ship has to be built in the right shape.
b}  You need a ring of the right kind of metal inside the base of the ship.
c}  That ring must be electrically charged with energy of the correct voltage.

Assuming that all three of the above conditions are met, then the ship will form some kind of magnetic sheath or envelope around itself, which is somehow in opposition to the gravitational field of the Earth.  The shape of the ship is important, because it has to match the shape of the magnetic bubble created by the drive.

Navigation is accomplished by distorting the artificial gravity field so that the ship lists in the direction you want to go.  Perhaps not coincidentally, it's pretty much identical to the warp field theory which is supposed to cause faster than light travel within Star Trek.

(http://forgetomori.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/adamski.jpg)

This was reputedly the image of a UFO associated with the contact experience of George Adamski.  I have no idea whether the image is genuine, but observe the three spheres on the base of the craft.  If what I have read is correct, they represent the steering mechanism, because they are made of a kind of metal which allows the field to be distorted in their respective directions.

I read David Wilcock's suggestion that these craft need a psychotronic or cybernetically based steering system, (that is, one which can connect directly to the pilot's nervous system) because the ship can move at sufficiently high speeds, that the reaction time required for a signal to go from the brain to the hands, and then to a steering wheel or something similar, would be too slow, and the vessel might crash before the pilot could avoid the obstacle.

AFAIK, this technology is also different from Schauberger's vortex technology.  Craft which use vortex technology have unstable movement, due to that principle.  Craft made with the technology described here, can move in straight lines, and can reverse directions at speeds which conventional human aircraft are nowhere near capable of.  This explains the often very erratic movement, reported by witnesses of these vehicles.

Let's get a few ducks lined up, shall we; it isn't anti-gravity, it is the creation of an independent gravity bubble; it is polarized just as the earth's field is, and it opposes the earth's field by having reverse polarity

the occupants of the craft are not subject to the forces of momentum or inertia because they are in an independent field; in normal motion, you feel g force because you are moving within the field itself; in this bubble you are not moving, the field is...

the three gravity amplifiers on the bottom work similar to a surfer waiting on a wave crest; by deforming the field in the direction of travel causes, in effect, a wave in the field; the stronger the distortion, the faster it moves

a very simple explanation but it covers the basics

and Astro, if the craft is hermetically sealed, a life support system is rather simple as long as you have a source of water, power for electrolysis, and a scrubber to remove co2 and possibly some heat or an air conditioner

Astro - just one item you are off on.

The gravity A wave is not created during the reaction. E115 has an over abundance of Gravity A.

So much that it actually extends past the shell of the atom. Not very far, but just enough that it can be accessed and amplified.

Gravity A normally resides in and works on the atomic level keeping particles in stable orbits.

This is obviously a strong force to be able to keep matter stable.

The outer perimeter of an atom is known as the shell.

In all matter we know of so far the Gravity A wave does not extend beyond the shell. The only exception seen so far is Element 115. The small amount that extends beyond the shell is enough to access and amplify.

Now you have an amazing tool. One that was created on the atomic level now residing on a much larger level performing it's magic on matter instead of just particles.

Quote from: petrus4 on June 16, 2018, 12:04:37 AM
I don't claim to understand the details, but the short version is that there are three basic prerequisites.

a}  The ship has to be built in the right shape.
b}  You need a ring of the right kind of metal inside the base of the ship.
c}  That ring must be electrically charged with energy of the correct voltage.

d}  You need a working knowledge of the unified field theory so that your ships field can isolate you inside from the effects of inertia etc... 

ie Inertia dampers like they have on Star Trek that never seem to work because they are always getting tossed around in the ship :P They don't have seat belts either LOL  I know its for dramatic effect but if they are getting tossed around every time there is a sudden maneuver, then every time they engages the warp drive you would have to scrape them off the walls :P

So far as (I know no one on earth has that technology yet)

A force field bubble also means

1) it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get a clear photo of a craft unless it is parked on the ground with the engines off

2) it would appear blurry or almost invisible by day, and glowing at night, the color and intensity of that glow being a factor of speed and power level.  The higher the power, the more light is reflected

3) it would explain the 'lost time' episodes because if you are near or within a very strong gravitational field (NOT anti gravity  toss that word onto the scrap heap as it is useless) time would slow and even appear to stop in relation to the world outside that field

4) inertia would not effect anyone INSIDE the field, as relative to the field, you are motionless.  HOWEVER without a working knowledge of the Unified Field Theory  it would not be possible

Those 4 above effects fit 99% of the USEFUL UFO reports :D

BUT  those same effect can also fit the Plasma Critters just as easily

Quote from: astr0144 on June 15, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
Just some further thoughts on Bob Lazars description and theories on How the Saucer relates to the Gravity Theories to create anti gravity.

I don't recall Bob saying they use anti gravity :P

Quote from: zorgon on June 16, 2018, 11:24:08 PM
2) it would appear blurry or almost invisible by day, and glowing at night, the color and intensity of that glow being a factor of speed and power level.

Why?

I think Zorgon has a good point with the Star Trek reference.  How many concussions did the crew suffer with all that being thrown around? 

With so many theories Petrus... I think its hard to try to understand the details..

and in terms of the Bob Lazar Sports model theory... it seems its purely based on Element 115  or the Craft would not work.

In my case I just never really understood and still do not fully as to what the effects from the E115 to give off "Gravity A waves "   when all other Earths Elements do not seem to do or operate in the way  E 115 does.

I still wondered about some of the other theories that we are aware of ..be it magnetism.. or earths magnetic fields..
and power sources.

Bob certain suggested that the shape of the crafts hull or bottom was important in how it aided gravity bubble to surround it..

The 3 spheres on the G. Adamski craft... they seem a bit similar to the 3 amplifiers on Bobs Sports model Craft.

In terms of determining the direction on the Sports Model... as far as I undertand at least when working within the closer proximity of Earth... the Amplifiers help direct the craft as they can alter positions by various degrees of angle or tilt in several directions.

The Amplifiers do other things as well which I was trying to find more info about by initially could not see much else wrote about them (other than how the direct the craft).. that I believe increase the strength or size of the gravity waves .

this I found indicates that they use or create  Electro magnetic pulses in the core plates inside them..to ampfly the gravity field from the crafts reactor... it also makes ref to Searl effect..

QuoteBefore initially lifting off the ground, the disc briefly gave off a corona discharge, a sound similar to that of high-voltage electricity, and then it was completely silent, its bottom glowing blue.  The hissing and glowing are by-products of the tremendous electromagnetic pulses generated in the gravity amplifiers of the craft.  The intense currents flowing through the core plates of the "Sport Model" Flying Disc's gravity amplifiers generate the intense magnetic fields to amplify the gravity field produced by the craft's Anti-Matter Reactor.  Robert Lazar's observance of this phenomenon is consistent with the physics of the "Searl Effect."  Likewise, it appears that the "Searl Effect" physics was being employed by the U.S. Navy to produce the distortion in Space-Time required to render a U.S. Navy Warship visually and radar invisible during the Philadelphia Experiment.

Quote Petrus.

QuoteI don't claim to understand the details, but the short version is that there are three basic prerequisites.

a}  The ship has to be built in the right shape.
b}  You need a ring of the right kind of metal inside the base of the ship.
c}  That ring must be electrically charged with energy of the correct voltage.

Assuming that all three of the above conditions are met, then the ship will form some kind of magnetic sheath or envelope around itself, which is somehow in opposition to the gravitational field of the Earth.  The shape of the ship is important, because it has to match the shape of the magnetic bubble created by the drive.

Quote
This was reputedly the image of a UFO associated with the contact experience of George Adamski.  I have no idea whether the image is genuine, but observe the three spheres on the base of the craft.  If what I have read is correct, they represent the steering mechanism, because they are made of a kind of metal which allows the field to be distorted in their respective directions.

It does say somewhere on Bobs websites that the is not using Anti gravity !

but for some reason for a long time I always considered that the craft was using Anti Gravity as I believe many other people have done..

I and many still struggle with trying to determine gravity and what Anti gravity is ?

But part of it to me seems overcoming existing gravity in the opposite direction.. or allowing objects to rise up..

whether they have any form of power to do that or not is probably the question..

as many objects oppose gravity is one way or another. be it birds and insects or Aircraft and Rockets. or UFOs.

So maybe I should had titled the thread word  "Bob Lazars "Opposing Gravity" theory" !  instead of Anti Gravity..

but the suggestion of a gravity bubble and and reverse polarity may be another worthy  simplified suggestion.

I think there is more to the amplifiers than what Bob describes on his website in how they work mechanially to aid direction of the craft...in other ways in terms of how they generate the intense magnetic fields and how they operate inside with the core plates. Which I dont think he explains.

The creator of this website (is it Ken Wright).. has added a lot of extra material in relation to Bobs Craft / website ...

he seems to have a very indepth understanding of Physics..some of it maybe far too complex for myself and most of us to understand.. when he also relate to Einsteins theories.

http://gravitywarpdrive.com

Does the Gravity Generator relate to the crafts Amplifiers or the Reactor or something else or it relates to all or different parts.  I know Bob also relates to a Thermo Like Generator...but thats to do with heat and energy of the craft..

this refers to Gravity ! 

http://gravitywarpdrive.com/Gravity_Generator.htm

                                   ----------------------------------------------

I am sure that they could or maybe do have a life support system along the lines as you describe...

but for some reason I dont think it got mentioned... I think there was one part of the craft that Bob did not get to see inside... so maybe it was within that section..

QuoteLazar was never given access to the upper level of the disc.  Therefore, Lazar was unable to provide any specifics as to what the porthole-like areas at the top of the disc actually were, but, most definitely, they are not portholes. as shown here..http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Flying_Disc_Operational_Specifications.htm

or maybe it worked more also with a Mothership that had all those facilities..

WHAT I REALLY STRUGGLE TO UNDERSTAND OR ACCEPT... is some descriptions that I have seen where some how the Craft is able to use some sort of gravity to connect to say very far away places elsehwere in space and sort of lock onto it and  thet craft be then taken there with a type of  releasing a stretched elastic band effect...


was this also using wormholes or black holes or just within plain type space as mainly consider it..

which if this was to work like the stretched rubber matt effect with a mass acting within it as say the craft...and gravity from the craft somehow is able to lock on to any point in space where it like grabs the rubber matt and is pulls on it.. and on doing so propels the craft towards it as that part of the initial extended rubber snaps back... may suggest travel almost anywhere maybe at the speed of Light or faster maybe if gravity waves are faster than light waves.. which I think I read that was suggested somewhere.. That I dont think that I had come across before or absorbed it..

QuoteThe following is an analysis of the way some types of UFOs travel, its the rubber sheet explanation of space-time manipulation by Bob Lazar.1

"Assuming they're in space, they will focus the three gravity generators on the point they want to go to.  Now, to give an analogy:  If you take a thin rubber sheet, say, lay it on a table and put thumbtacks in each corner, then take a big stone and set it on one end of the rubber sheet and say that's your spacecraft, you pick out a point that you want to go to - which could be anywhere on the rubber sheet - pinch that point with your fingers and pull it all the way up to the craft.  That's how it focuses and pulls that point to it.  When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone (or spacecraft) follows that stretched rubber back to its point.  There's no linear travel through space; it actually bends space and time and follows space as it retracts.  In the first mode of travel - around the surface of a planet - they essentially balance on the gravitational field that the gravity generators put out, and they can ride a "wave," like a cork does in the ocean.  In that mode they're very unstable and are affected by the weather.  In the other mode of travel - where they can travel vast distances - they can't really do that in a strong gravitational field like Earth, because to do that, first of all, they need to tilt on their side, usually out in space, then they can focus on the point they need to with the gravity generators and move on.  If you can picture space as a fabric, and the speed of light is your limit, it'll take you so long, even at the speed of light, to get from point A to point B.  You can't exceed it - not in this universe anyway.  Should there be other parallel universes, maybe the laws are different, but anyone that's here has to abide by those rules.

http://gravitywarpdrive.com/Gravity_Generator.htm
"

QuoteStandard experimental techniques exist to determine the propagation speed of forces.  When we apply these techniques to gravity, they all yield propagation speeds too great to measure, substantially faster than light-speed.  This is because gravity, in contrast to light, has no detectable aberration or propagation delay for its action, even for cases (such as binary pulsars) where sources of gravity accelerate significantly during the light time from source to target
.  http://gravitywarpdrive.com/Speed_of_Gravity.htm

What I have only just found out is that gravity waves can be suggested as part of the Electro magnetic spectrum, even past that of gama waves... so I assume they are very small in ampitude but maybe have much shorter wavelengths.

Longer wave lengths are at the other end of the EMF scale.. like Radio waves for eg

This shows a EMF chart as where gravity waves reside in the Spectrum. to the far right side of it..

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/fj-3/f-spacecraft-gravitycontrol-.JPG

Quote from: The Seeker on June 16, 2018, 01:03:45 AM
Let's get a few ducks lined up, shall we; it isn't anti-gravity, it is the creation of an independent gravity bubble; it is polarized just as the earth's field is, and it opposes the earth's field by having reverse polarity

the occupants of the craft are not subject to the forces of momentum or inertia because they are in an independent field; in normal motion, you feel g force because you are moving within the field itself; in this bubble you are not moving, the field is...

the three gravity amplifiers on the bottom work similar to a surfer waiting on a wave crest; by deforming the field in the direction of travel causes, in effect, a wave in the field; the stronger the distortion, the faster it moves

a very simple explanation but it covers the basics

and Astro, if the craft is hermetically sealed, a life support system is rather simple as long as you have a source of water, power for electrolysis, and a scrubber to remove co2 and possibly some heat or an air conditioner

On trying to do some searching for info on Anti gravity... there are quite a few related threads, but maybe they offer differing views on theories that work that maybe seen as Anti Gravity...

But finding a one main  specific description of it... I am not sure that I can find... even searching elsewhere online.
even this website has various articles about it, but finding a specific explanation I am not sure its that easy.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/secret_projects/antigravity.htm

This is one version that may apply.. but I am not sure its an eg as to the way I was trying to percieve it in terms of defying gravity directly on Earth.. opposing standard gravity on Earth rather than what may occur in Space between 2 bodies.....

QuoteSection 1: What is antigravity?

As was noted in Chapter 2, Einstein's "cosmological constant," a postulated minute repulsion force necessary to account for the absence of universal gravitational compression was not completely rejected until 1999 when it was discovered that it was not a constant at all, but must have varied over the universe's life. Equations didn't allow for the acceleration of the newborn universe accurately without increasing the cosmological constant.

Also that year, it was determined that the beautiful, unexplained, axial jets of matter and x-rays and gamma rays observed from black holes, neutron stars and galactic centers were the result of a repulsive force arising perpendicular to their rotation. [see http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast11jun97_1.htm for info on these jets. Note that the jets appear to turn on and off as one would expect if matter passed over the axial repulsive fields variably] The repulsive effect is so strong from galactic centers that if our sun were placed in the repulsive field, its entire mass would be accelerated almost instantly to a speed quite near to the speed of light. Not only that, but the light emitted by the sun would be compressed to x-ray and gamma-ray energies as it traveled down the repulsion gradient. This wavelength compression happens in an opposite fashion to the wavelength expansion that is theorized to occur as light nears a massive gravitational source. Soon after these discoveries were described, the "cosmological constant" was discarded and equations describing the antigravitic effect substituted.

The antigravitic effect is best visualized as a two-body interaction. Assume the two bodies have equal mass and therefore equal gravitational pull. Assume the bodies are in a stable orbit around one another, maintaining an equal distance between them. The bodies orbit in a single plane around a single axis. As they orbit, a repulsive force is emitted from each body perpendicular to the orbital plane. The force is equal to each body's resistance to the gravitational pull of the other. In other words, the resistance to orbital compression is redirected perpendicular to the orbital plane. In our example, the average repulsive effect could be visualized as a cylinder or repulsion perpendicular to the orbital plane and intersecting with the orbital path. The repulsive force increases exponentially as the orbital plane is approached. As the mass and orbital speeds increase, the antigravity forces are likewise increased.

In most situations, the antigravity force is insignificant, due, in part, to the perpendicularity of the effect and also because the gravitational forces resisted are normally minute. This is why the "cosmological constant" was set so low and often questioned. However, a black hole's gravitational pull is hardly small. It's this incredibly strong gravity that causes the huge antigravitic displays from black holes as their cores rotate and resist further compression.

Descriptive equations of antigravitic interactions are only simple in two dimensions. It's impossible to predict the repulsive effect generated by the complex and variable rotation of our sun. Suffice it to say that repulsion is strongest from the axis and negligible from the plane of rotation. It is this repulsive effect that accounts for the planarity, or disk-like shape of our own solar system and the repulsion of enough matter to form our Oort cloud. It is also this effect that accounts for the planarity of a black hole's accretion disk and even the planarity of galaxies.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/secret_projects/project127.htm

QuoteQuote Zorgon : 
I don't recall Bob saying they use anti gravity :P

I had referred to what you say earlier in one point in my prior post.. but also later had wrote something that you refer to.

but thanks for your comment on acknowledging to what I had wrote... I hope that it has cleared up some further understanding on my behalf to how the craft worked in relation to gravity waves.

I am not sure how easily some of the members got to understand what was wrote on Bobs description and for how long that they have grasped it for....

Its sort of a weird thing thou... as I beleive Gravity waves have only recenly been acknowledged as being for real and not just a theory..

but in relation to some thing like "Gravity A" its only purely relevent if you believe or can acknowledge that it only works on earth with materials from other off Earth places..

We have certain elements that are Nuclear related.. and some that may have crashed on Earth..

But Bobs theory is seeming to suggest that Element 115 came here to Earth from ETs...

so there seems there was never any other ways we could have known about such a thing..

its a bit of a catch 22 situation..

and certainly we would not have if ETs have not arrived on Earth..

It may have only been if we were ever in the furture to find it on another planet or body.. which would be unlikely unless we have something like E 115 to get is there... or could create it here on Earth maybe by being able to say alter existing nearest like similar elements

Quote
Astro - just one item you are off on.

The gravity A wave is not created during the reaction. E115 has an over abundance of Gravity A.

So much that it actually extends past the shell of the atom. Not very far, but just enough that it can be accessed and amplified

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 16, 2018, 10:46:29 PM
Gravity A normally resides in and works on the atomic level keeping particles in stable orbits.

This is obviously a strong force to be able to keep matter stable.

The outer perimeter of an atom is known as the shell.

In all matter we know of so far the Gravity A wave does not extend beyond the shell. The only exception seen so far is Element 115. The small amount that extends beyond the shell is enough to access and amplify.

Now you have an amazing tool. One that was created on the atomic level now residing on a much larger level performing it's magic on matter instead of just particles.

Bobs Anti gravity theory can be seen on Star Trek Next generation Episode 2 1988. Anti-Matter reactor propulsion system what a coincidence.

What about when Gene Huff asked John for an tape exchange for a real estate appraisal?? Who would think a Lear would need a real estate appraisal in 1988 ? ?

Well lets see it wen t like this " Hey John I'm Gene Huff I need a copy of the UFO Tapes (Billy Meier tapes) ?" ok ... Next thing you know Bobs Sport Model looks identical to Billy Meiers pics Lets have a look:

(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Testors.JPG)
Now Billy Meier
(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Billymeier.jpg)

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Quote from: bigpappy51 on June 21, 2018, 09:54:11 AM
Bobs Anti gravity theory can be seen on Star Trek Next generation Episode 2 1988. Anti-Matter reactor propulsion system what a coincidence.

Actually the British physicist Paul Dirac first predicted the existence of antimatter in 1928.

What a coincidence.

Einstein predicted gravity waves in 1916.

What a coincidence.

Quote
What about when Gene Huff asked John for an tape exchange for a real estate appraisal?? Who would think a Lear would need a real estate appraisal in 1988 ? ?

Well lets see it wen t like this " Hey John I'm Gene Huff I need a copy of the UFO Tapes (Billy Meier tapes) ?" ok ... Next thing you know Bobs Sport Model looks identical to Billy Meiers pics Lets have a look:

(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Testors.JPG)
Now Billy Meier
(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Billymeier.jpg)

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

So who are you calling a liar? John or Gene? And for what reason?

They were both UFO nuts at the time and John was a local celebrity in Nevada having been on the news and in the news for talking about UFO's.

So he was the go- to guy there if you were a UFO nut and wanted to get inside information.

And John has posted several times in the last year about his various financial difficulties through the years. Needing an appraisal for a 2nd mortgage is also a sign of financial difficulty. So getting a free one in exchange for copying some videotapes sounded like a pretty good deal.

Gene also thought he was getting a good deal until he saw the size of John's house.  ;D


"UFO Tapes (Billy Meier tapes)"

Don't recall either Gene or John saying Billy Meier tapes. I'm thinking that is your label added.

Yes Gene did want UFO info from John, and I'm sure that Billy Meier info was included along with Linda Howe and a host of others.

Bob has said he considered both of them nuts at that point for believing any of this material.


He later said when he saw The Sports Model at Area 51, "it looked just like the one that Swiss Farmer guy took pictures of".

(At that point I wondered if he was talking about the birthday cake model)

(http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20140715/127404)


(or the Beamship)

(https://cdn.disclose.tv/sites/default/files/styles/article_image/public/img/post/2016/09/15/nasa-engineer-the-billy-meier-ufo-case-is-real-135270.jpg?)



But the closest thing to the sports model Billy ever made photos of was this 'model'

(http://www.ovnis.com.mx/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/billy-meier-ovni.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DRxuFx8IfLI/U27tSHq6jzI/AAAAAAAAI0Y/IxPgQwS8nd0/s1600/billy+meier+ufo_aliens+contact.jpg)

(http://files.fern-flower.org/fern-flower/750_0.jpg)

Not quite the same as the actual Sports Model at Area 51 now is it? 

(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Testors.JPG)


But close enough to where you can see where Bob would consider them similar.

Especially if he did not see the closeups and only saw this image -

(http://www.ovnis.com.mx/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/billy-meier-ovni.jpg)

They DO look quite similar at that distance.


And using an artist rendition drawing like you did to compare Billy's craft to Bob's is rather disingenuous.  Just an accident right?  ::)

What year was that drawing made? And by whom?


But forget drawings, how about using some real photos from Billy. Any of those actually look "identical" to the Sports Model?

I don't think so.


What about some real photos taken by Bob:

(https://i.imgur.com/lM5u0hg.jpg)


...or some real photos taken by myself:

(https://i.imgur.com/y7uu5LL.jpg)


Looks like a Sports Model to me (you know, like the ones that Swiss farmer guy took).  8)

Compared to some members on PRC who may be keen on Sci Fi and Star Trek and are keen followers of the series...as well as having good understanding and memory often what the series episodes are about... I have seen it on and off over some years but only used to watch it for entertainment mainly when it was the original series.. with Kirk and Spock... My brother however was a keen Treky and read a lot of sci fi and probably had a good understanding often to understand what each episode was more about in detail or how the Science theory parts  (Fact or Fiction) may have related more to it..

On having a quick browse about StarTrek..  I am surprised to find out that there was not as many episodes in the Original series as I had thought... so I must have watched a very lot of repeats over the years and not realised it..

what I mean by that is that I thought that the original series had gone on for over 10 years or maybe many more. since the mid 1960s.. but it had ony ran for 3 years initially followed by 22 further episodes..

(Probably also as I recall when it was mentioned when it was  25 yrs or more since it was 1st shown)

I recall they did so many movies mainly with the original known same main cast..

but I did not realise that it was not until 1987 until the next series "Star Trek Next Generation" that you refer to started.

I really cannot believe that it was that long ago... and I just have no idea where time has gone...
I seemed to think when I read your post that it was only 10 to 15 yrs ago... NOT 31 yrs ago..

QuoteStar Trek is an American media franchise based on the science fiction television series created by Gene Roddenberry. The first television series, simply called Star Trek and now referred to as "The Original Series", debuted in 1966 and aired for three seasons on the television network NBC. It followed the interstellar adventures of Captain James T. Kirk (William Shatner) and his crew aboard the starship USS Enterprise, a space exploration vessel, built by the United Federation of Planets in the twenty-third century. The Star Trek canon of the franchise includes The Original Series, an animated series, five spin-off television series, the film franchise, and further adaptations in several media.

In creating Star Trek, Roddenberry was inspired by the Horatio Hornblower novels, the satirical book Gulliver's Travels, and by works of western genre such as the television series Wagon Train. These adventures continued in the 22-episode Star Trek: The Animated Series and six feature films. Four spin-off television series were eventually produced: Star Trek: The Next Generation followed the crew of a new starship Enterprise set a century after the original series; Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager set contemporaneously with The Next Generation; and Star Trek: Enterprise set before the original series in the early days of human interstellar travel. The most recent Star Trek TV series, entitled Star Trek: Discovery,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek

SO after saying all that ! .... Upon reading what you refer to about the Star Trek generations series that you ref to..
I had thought that chances are that Anti grvaity would have been mentioned at one time or the other in the original series also...  unless you know different !

From what you have said.... do you know if what you refer to is correct in the being the 1st or maybe only time that Anti Gravity was mentioned in any Star Trek series ?

And in that episode.... How would you say  that it refers to Bob Lazars Anti Gravity Theory, Does it refer to Element 115 ?
or some similar theory..

Star Trek the next generation Episode 2 in 1988.... that it was series 2..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation

is that the episode that you mean ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Silence_Has_Lease

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5aqylr


I had a quick browse thru it and could only see mentioned of Worm  or Black Holes or warp Drive..
I never noticed anything that related to Bobs theory was was obvious to me. unless there was some other mention related to Gravity..

What time frame is it that you may refer to ?


I was aware of the Billy Meier Photo but I have not really studied his material as earlier on when I became aware of his material,  my impression from others who refered to his story... did not make me really think it was worth while...

so I assume that suggests that you do not believe Billy Meires material or think his photos are made up or a hoax !  ?

I could not recall the main details in ref with John Lear to Billy Meiers tape..
but reading A51s comments I think I follow what your suggesting..that at that time John had access to many UFO related things... and it was before the Internet as we know it today.. Was John one of the only persons at that time who may have had access to such information or materials ?

I could see your point about Gene Huff if one was not more aware of other things about his connection to the story..

BUT was there other Contacts that Gene could have gone to to get that Billy Meier tapes...or could he have just obtained a  photo... did it need to be the full tape film of it.. ?  why purely would it be down to John Lear ?

If the story was a hoax... would they have needed to include Gene Huff in it ? as I dont think I really know why that would be so... unless say he was someone at the time also some experts at photography or film developement in ref to having filmed Bobs Craft  an develeoped the film..when all 3 were said to have witnessed the craft..

I can also see your point how the Billy Meier craft looks similar to Bobs Sports model..If one was thinking the way that I think that your indicating in ref to such related facts.. then.. you may have a valid point..and some may still  think that way.

In ref to the Photo that you refer to... On a quick search I cannot find any specific date ref to it..
but in the wikapedia article it seems he had connections to UFOs between 1942 to 1975...

Do you know what date that  that Billy Meire UFO photo was said to be taken or created ? or is it from the Tape film ? if when was the tape filmed ?  Was some years before Bob Lazar came on the scene or just prior in the late 1980s ?

I will say that Bobs Sports Model craft... looks  more modern in design than I had imagined when I first saw it.. than I would have expected a general UFO to look like...

Or maybe we should expect that if UFOs are for real.. that they should look even more modern  futuristic loooking in design that maybe many craft that get witnessed..

I dont really know if there has been many other witnessed craft other than Bobs and Billys that had similar appearance ?

But after all that has been mentioned... Does that still suggest there is some issue with Bobs Story ?

If it was suggested back in 1988 in Star Trek for the 1st time .. say that it made a ref to something similar to Bobs Craft theories with say something similar to Element 115... then that is of interest..

but is that to say its suggesting Bobs storys made up , or could it also be that those in charge wanted to release certain facts about it, as a type of slow release prior to Bob informing the World about it..

As some researchers believe that those involved in  the UFO World ..who say monitor UFO information in ref  to the public.. do at times let the public become  more aware of certain UFO facts or technology..say in a slow to gradual way..in stages or steps..

If possibly so.... its still seems hard to prove either way..

I still think A51s Video footage seems some of the more conclusive evidence to Bobs Story that to me anyway seems to match what some would imagine to match Bobs reports on the crafts activity.. based upon things that I have researched and can recall so far..

QuoteMeier claims his extraterrestrial encounters began in 1942, at the age of five, when he met an elderly Plejaren man named "Sfath".[8] After Sfath's death in 1953, Meier said, he began communicating with an extraterrestrial woman (though not a Plejaren) called "Asket". All contacts ceased in 1964, he said, then resumed on January 28, 1975, when he met "Semjase",[8] the granddaughter of Sfath, and shortly thereafter another Plejaren man called "Ptaah". Other Plejarens, including a woman named "Nera", have since allegedly joined the dialog as well. Photographs of these two women were later proved to have been faked.[1][9]

Meier founded a religious movement based on his alleged contacts with Semjase, called the "Freie Interessengemeinschaft für Grenz- und Geisteswissenschaften und Ufologiestudien" (Free Community of Interests for the Border and Spiritual Sciences and Ufological Studies) in the late 1970s and established his "Semjase Silver Star Center". The movement's headquarters is in Switzerland.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Meier

QuoteBobs Anti gravity theory can be seen on Star Trek Next generation Episode 2 1988. Anti-Matter reactor propulsion system what a coincidence.

What about when Gene Huff asked John for an tape exchange for a real estate appraisal?? Who would think a Lear would need a real estate appraisal in 1988 ? ?

Well lets see it wen t like this " Hey John I'm Gene Huff I need a copy of the UFO Tapes (Billy Meier tapes) ?" ok ... Next thing you know Bobs Sport Model looks identical to Billy Meiers pics Lets have a look:

Quote from: bigpappy51 on June 21, 2018, 09:54:11 AM
What about when Gene Huff asked John for an tape exchange for a real estate appraisal?? Who would think a Lear would need a real estate appraisal in 1988 ? ?

It's called looking to refinance the mortgage :P  people assume because John inherited that big house that he has money... well he doesn't... so he took a loan out on the house, which is why he is in trouble today

He was not included in the rest of the fortune, being the black sheep of the family :P

Quote from: ArMaP on June 17, 2018, 12:39:01 AM
Why?

Already explained why in several threads :P

Quote from: Shasta56 on June 17, 2018, 03:57:15 AM
I think Zorgon has a good point with the Star Trek reference.  How many concussions did the crew suffer with all that being thrown around?

I am assuming the film makers did that for dramatic effect LOL  otherwise space travel would look boring.

Just like space ship fighters would not fly in arcs... they would move in vectors

Quote from: bigpappy51 on June 21, 2018, 09:54:11 AM
Well lets see it wen t like this " Hey John I'm Gene Huff I need a copy of the UFO Tapes (Billy Meier tapes) ?" ok ... Next thing you know Bobs Sport Model looks identical to Billy Meiers pics Lets have a look:

(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Billymeier.jpg)

ONE MAJOR FLAW  in your theory...

THIS was Billy Meiers saucer :P

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Billy_Meier_UFO_66.jpg)

QuoteQuote from: zorgon on June 16, 2018, 03:24:08 PM
2) it would appear blurry or almost invisible by day, and glowing at night, the color and intensity of that glow being a factor of speed and power level.

Quote from: ArMaP on June 17, 2018, 12:39:01 AM
Why?

Gravity lensing caused by the amplified gravity field and neon light effect from the voltage on the outside of the craft.

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 22, 2018, 04:24:53 AM
Gravity lensing caused by the amplified gravity field and neon light effect from the voltage on the outside of the craft.

(http://allbetsareoff.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/shield_2.jpg)

(http://discovermagazine.com/~/media/import/images/7/5/5/invisibilitycloak.jpg)

(https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/2017/06/060717_LG_white-dwarf_inline_730_REV.jpg?mode=magazine&context=193345)

Quote from: zorgon on June 22, 2018, 04:41:26 AM

(http://allbetsareoff.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/shield_2.jpg)

(http://discovermagazine.com/~/media/import/images/7/5/5/invisibilitycloak.jpg)

(https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/2017/06/060717_LG_white-dwarf_inline_730_REV.jpg?mode=magazine&context=193345)

Yup.

The field lens created between the craft and the observer -

(https://filmfork-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/content/brazil-inline-02.jpg)


And the amount of distortion seen, varies in real time in relation to the amount of distortion being produced by the pulses producing the field.

I mentioned that I have not as yet studied in much detail about Billy Meier or whats UFOs he claimed to have seen..

On doing doing quick searchs however...  there does seem many a picture or website that relates to the one Bigpappy posted..

So "Z" why is that not the same one as one of Billy Meiers as you indicate ?

Could not the legs it lands on ,only appear when landing / landed.. and are not seen during the flight..

although it would seem that the the  legs are located would be detectable in the flight photos..


(http://www.truthseekah.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Billy-Meier-UFO-Contactee.jpg)



This is another similar photo to Bobs S.M craft


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yh93vawma_Q/TIZ1aeML6wI/AAAAAAAABZw/cIVLvCL54Dc/s1600/beamship1.jpg)

I now see that one of the Billy Meier photos was referred to as in 1975... thats 13 years before Bobs story came out..

so I dont see why Gene Huff would be asking John for the tape for info or  an image of that craft just the year before in 1988..

unless the image / tape  or other information about that craft had been unobtainable all that time.

Some reports suggest that  Billys photo was claimed to be a hoax by his wife..

but will we ever really know for sure ?  Maybe it was for real as some believe Bobs craft is... and was a similar craft to Bobs S.M.



(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Billymeier.jpg)

Quote from: zorgon on June 22, 2018, 04:12:27 AM
ONE MAJOR FLAW  in your theory...

THIS was Billy Meiers saucer :P

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Billy_Meier_UFO_66.jpg)

Astro, out of the 4 pics you just posted, the first 3 are drawings, not actual photos; the one that you copied that Z had posted is an actual picture, not some artists' rendition...

Note what you say Seeker...

Im not sure what I may had been thinking at the time of posting or commenting on the images.

Probably.... its because of images I posted ..that they relate to that similar drawing / image that B.P51 posted..
and I was not sure if some of them may had been based on another different UFO story to the of Billy Meiers..
and that they may just seem similar..

I am not sure if one of the images may had related to some claimed craft from Venus..(that may had been a different connection). or if Billy referred to that also...

Thats why I was asking if "Z" maybe was aware or could recall..

Quote from: The Seeker on June 22, 2018, 12:04:40 PM
Astro, out of the 4 pics you just posted, the first 3 are drawings, not actual photos; the one that you copied that Z had posted is an actual picture, not some artists' rendition...

I find the thoughts of the technology if such a Force field really exists either in Bobs Craft or where ever..

I wonder if such a thing may exist as a type of craft that just has some sort of surrounding cover without the metallic outside skin that we generally see on a Saucer like Craft !

It would be great to have such a thing and to be able to travel anywhere within  it  , in an instant...

(http://allbetsareoff.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/shield_2.jpg)

This has some further info on Gravity Lensing.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Gravitational_lens-full.jpg)

QuoteUnlike an optical lens, a gravitational lens produces a maximum deflection of light that passes closest to its center, and a minimum deflection of light that travels furthest from its center. Consequently, a gravitational lens has no single focal point, but a focal line. The term "lens" in the context of gravitational light deflection was first used by O.J. Lodge, who remarked that it is "not permissible to say that the solar gravitational field acts like a lens, for it has no focal length".[7] If the (light) source, the massive lensing object, and the observer lie in a straight line, the original light source will appear as a ring around the massive lensing object. If there is any misalignment, the observer will see an arc segment instead. This phenomenon was first mentioned in 1924 by the St. Petersburg physicist Orest Chwolson,[8] and quantified by Albert Einstein in 1936. It is usually referred to in the literature as an Einstein ring, since Chwolson did not concern himself with the flux or radius of the ring image. More commonly, where the lensing mass is complex (such as a galaxy group or cluster) and does not cause a spherical distortion of space–time, the source will resemble partial arcs scattered around the lens. The observer may then see multiple distorted images of the same source; the number and shape of these depending upon the relative positions of the source, lens, and observer, and the shape of the gravitational well of the lensing object.[9]

There are three classes of gravitational lensing:[7][10]

1. Strong lensing: where there are easily visible distortions such as the formation of Einstein rings, arcs, and multiple images.

2. Weak lensing: where the distortions of background sources are much smaller and can only be detected by analyzing large numbers of sources in a statistical way to find coherent distortions of only a few percent. The lensing shows up statistically as a preferred stretching of the background objects perpendicular to the direction to the centre of the lens. By measuring the shapes and orientations of large numbers of distant galaxies, their orientations can be averaged to measure the shear of the lensing field in any region. This, in turn, can be used to reconstruct the mass distribution in the area: in particular, the background distribution of dark matter can be reconstructed. Since galaxies are intrinsically elliptical and the weak gravitational lensing signal is small, a very large number of galaxies must be used in these surveys. These weak lensing surveys must carefully avoid a number of important sources of systematic error: the intrinsic shape of galaxies, the tendency of a camera's point spread function to distort the shape of a galaxy and the tendency of atmospheric seeing to distort images must be understood and carefully accounted for. The results of these surveys are important for cosmological parameter estimation, to better understand and improve upon the Lambda-CDM model, and to provide a consistency check on other cosmological observations. They may also provide an important future constraint on dark energy.

3. Microlensing: where no distortion in shape can be seen but the amount of light received from a background object changes in time. The lensing object may be stars in the Milky Way in one typical case, with the background source being stars in a remote galaxy, or, in another case, an even more distant quasar. The effect is small, such that (in the case of strong lensing) even a galaxy with a mass more than 100 billion times that of the Sun will produce multiple images separated by only a few arcseconds. Galaxy clusters can produce separations of several arcminutes. In both cases the galaxies and sources are quite distant, many hundreds of megaparsecs away from our Galaxy.

Gravitational lenses act equally on all kinds of electromagnetic radiation, not just visible light. Weak lensing effects are being studied for the cosmic microwave background as well as galaxy surveys. Strong lenses have been observed in radio and x-ray regimes as well. If a strong lens produces multiple images, there will be a relative time delay between two paths: that is, in one image the lensed object will be observed before the other image.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lens


MY BIG QUESTION ?

Could or does Speed of Gravity really exist ? as suggested in some of the earlier posts made or is there any other main thread that has covered it in some detail ...  (That I have overlooked)

I ask ,as if its likely true ... it seems a major Topic in UFO technology or our Future Long Distance Space travel.


Suggestions are its Billions of times faster than Speed of Light !

something that has only recently sank much more deep  in my psyche...

I must have either just browsed thru this webpage or ignored it or something for some reason...and not noted this statement or considered it correctly.....am I the only one ???

and if its been highlighted on PRC... some how I must either not believed  or really understood what was being said and understadning the importance of it,    or ignored it or something..

BUT NOW being MORE Concious of it...

This seems one of the MOST Important suggestions that I have ever come across.. in particular if its potentually relating to what maybe the speed at what a Saucer could operate at to travel thru space..

Does this statement refer to that ???


and is this the most important statement ever claimed to do with UFOs Space travel ?

Quote"The Speed of Gravity - What the Experiments Say," demonstrating that gravity propagated at least 20 billion times faster than light and may very well propagate instantaneously

QuoteRobert Lazar claimed that gravity propagates instantaneously.  If one thinks about that, it actually makes perfect sense logically.  Gravity warps or bends space and time.  We measure the speed or velocity of an object by observing the distance that the object travels in a given time interval.  If the very parameters that we use to measure distance and time are significantly affected by strong gravitational fields, then it would be impossible to actually define a finite speed to the propagation of gravity. A recent article, "Rethinking Relativity," had stated that Associate Professor Tom Van Flandern from the University of Maryland issued a document, "The Speed of Gravity - What the Experiments Say," demonstrating that gravity propagated at least 20 billion times faster than light and may very well propagate instantaneously.

2/3s down the page under the Gravity Amplifier section /  image

http://gravitywarpdrive.com/Government_Scientist.htm


IF its possible to travel at a "Speed of Gravity and its seen as  being Instant..

Could it be that be suggesting that its possble to travel anywhere at an instant thru Space with a Craft like Bobs Sports Model !  maybe also thru time..

back to the future or into the Future...

Its suggested that Gravity  can also  relate to Space Time Compression ..  that maybe possible...

That to me would be one of the most interesting topics, that I could think off !

I think we on Earth...could accept to ourseleves that Gravity does seem to always act instant to our time frame beliefs or acceptance...or maybe how our brains may interpret it..

But as we tend to just experience it in our every day lives... just like we do with light...

In reality .. we had not idea before the speed of Light was claimed to have been measureed just how fast light was in how we percieve it .... and likewise if Gravity has an even faster speed... we have no idea of the real speed of gravity either..

BUT THIS CLAIM TO ME ... AT the moment is based on the more recent suggestions from Bob Lazar ! Based on him saying that they found ths out from the effects of Element 115 and how "Gravity A" from it was detected..

OTHERWISE....  they way that I see it we would not have been able to suggest this...

So at the moment to me ... this theory is only relevant if what Bob claims is truth..

The Scientists cannot claim this works with the other main elements that we know on Earth ! as "Gravity A" within the bonds of other element atoms does not penetrate outside the atoms shells..

So this theory is all down to Bobs statement !  is it true or not !

Its certainly the most interesting theory ! and very thought provoking !

Maybe I understanding this .... if so can anyone claryfy ?

To think this maybe a possibility is driving (or has driven) me insane !

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 22, 2018, 04:24:53 AM
Gravity lensing caused by the amplified gravity field and neon light effect from the voltage on the outside of the craft.

Wouldn't a gravity field strong enough to create lensing create other noticeable effects, like attracting small objects, for example?

Quote from: ArMaP on June 22, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
Wouldn't a gravity field strong enough to create lensing create other noticeable effects, like attracting small objects, for example?

No. It is a small localized gravity distortion field.

Thus distorting our view.

"As the intensity of the gravitational field around the disc increases, the distortion of space/time around the disc also increases. If you could see the space/time distortion, which we can't, this is how it would look.

(http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/distort2.gif)

As the gravitational field from the amplifiers becomes more intense, the form of the space/time around the disc not only bends upward, but at maximum distortion, actually folds over into almost a heart shape around the top of the disc.

This space/time distortion is taking place 360 degrees around the disc, creating a volume of distortion, so if you were looking at the disc from the top, the space/time distortion would be in the shape of a donut as it enclosed the disc.

When the gravitational field around the disc is so intense that the space/time around the disc achieves maximum distortion, the disc can't be seen from any vantage point and, for all practical purposes, is invisible.  All you would se would be the sky around it.

At various angles prior to the disc achieving maximum distortion, the disc could be visible from one vantage point and not another.  All you could see would be the environment around it. This is similar to being able to see stars that are behind the sun, due to the intense gravity of the sun bending the light path between the star and earth.

Essentially, this creates a sort of space-time bubble around the craft. "Maximum distortion" is not necessary for standard flight over the surface of a planet. Except in the case of rapid "streaks" across the sky. Maximum distortion is essential for this mode of travel. The typical fire light comet in the night sky is not the craft, but rather the air around the craft ionizing and trailing it."

http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/maximum.html (http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/closed/maximum.html)

Quote from: astr0144 on June 22, 2018, 11:36:26 AM
I mentioned that I have not as yet studied in much detail about Billy Meier or whats UFOs he claimed to have seen..

On doing doing quick searchs however...  there does seem many a picture or website that relates to the one Bigpappy posted..

Well it is not a picture. It is a drawing made by an artist, copying the picture on the cover of the Testors model.

Quote
So "Z" why is that not the same one as one of Billy Meiers as you indicate ?

Could not the legs it lands on ,only appear when landing / landed.. and are not seen during the flight..

although it would seem that the the  legs are located would be detectable in the flight photos..

The legs are not the point (except for the fact they don't exist in any of Billy's photos OR the Testors model) and totally irrelevant.


The primary difference, is the evenly spaced black portholes around the top of the craft -

(http://www.alienscientist.com/images/Testors.JPG)



NONE of Billy's photos show any black portholes around the top. Only artists drawings have added that feature.

I am confidant that none of these drawings/paintings were created, published or copyrighted pre- 1989.


(http://www.crystalinks.com/semjaseufo.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1T9YXyM1Bfw/SqwpkRDY0yI/AAAAAAAADek/mFaz6fLv2Gw/s400/Billy+Meier+Semjase+Pleiadian+Beamship.JPG)

(http://www.galaxiaki-omospondia-fwtos.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Billy-Meier-Semjase-Contact-Pleiadian-Human.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yh93vawma_Q/TIZ1aeML6wI/AAAAAAAABZw/cIVLvCL54Dc/s1600/beamship1.jpg)

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OF8eoQYZHPA/S98wQ_ROvRI/AAAAAAAAAow/Gq-82ai6xTk/s1600/Telos-image.jpg)



Examine all the Billy photos you like but NONE of them display black portholes around the top.

Apparently the artist made 'a mistake' when trying to depict the craft shown in Billy's photos, PLUS they forgot to include the rings around the dome. ::)  -

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Billy_Meier_UFO_66.jpg)


So... instead of Bob copying Billy's photos, as bp has tried to imply, it is actually the other way around, where artists in the Meier camp have copied Bob's UFO.