Are you agree?
how do you think this will be in the next 100 years?
if you agree. How you think the 100 years next future will be? 2118 i mean.
If by "ai" you mean Artificial Intelligence, then I do not agree, because most of the things that are presented as AI today are not really AI, they are just different methods (usually based on statistics) to do things.
From what I have seen AI hasn't evolved much in the last 40 years.
Artificial intelligence is almost exclusively based on wishful thinking. Yes, game AI has got a lot better in recent years in some respects, and they're doing some interesting things with neural networks now as well. I think it will be a very long time before we see genuine strong, sentient AI, though; especially considering the crisis programming is in at the moment.
I keep reading about how battery technology isn't good enough to support newer versions of mobile phones, when that is only due to what bloated garbage contemporary software is. With Linux I would be quite happy using an interface which would have worked inside 64 megabytes (64 million bytes) of memory; tmux and ratpoison under bare X Windows, which would fit in a maximum of 200 megabytes (200 million bytes) of hard drive space. That is all I need, and in comparison with earlier computers I've used, 200 Mb is insanely extravagant. Microsoft are claiming that their newest versions of Windows need 3 to 5 gigabytes, which is 3 to 5 billion bytes, yet for the most part said operating system doesn't do anything we weren't doing 10 years ago.
We're not going forwards; we're going backwards. The corporations are trying their hardest to turn the Internet into an incrementally more interactive version of cable television, which no one wants; but all they give a damn about is making money.
Quote from: petrus4 on November 17, 2018, 06:39:19 PM
I think it will be a very long time before we see genuine strong, sentient AI, though; especially considering the crisis programming is in at the moment.
I think about it the same way. "it will be a very long time before we see genuine strong, sentient AI"
Can i ask you what you think about the real stages of AI in military X private sector? What you think about elon musk concerns? do you think he knows something more we dont know or even imagine to see but because his conections he already had contact? Can we possible being played by powers we not aware in the case strong AI is real?
Quote from: ArMaP on November 17, 2018, 02:21:20 PM
because most of the things that are presented
It is what is not presented that is my concern ArMaP. But i understand your "becauses" about why you not convinced about the sentient AI being a real thing.
I just disagree with you about it. But i think your argument is valid yet not strong enough because it is based on main stream news about it.
this statement is just speculation.
if our thoughts are 99% the same,then what makes us different is 1%.that means one template of a neural net with 99%.that reduces storage of a personality to 1%.thats not much memory space in the grand scheme of things.
even human vocabularies are usually limited to 1000 words.common core education will make creating a limited sentient easy.
add in that it needs human senses.eyes,ears,touch,smell,time,taste.
those may take up more memory than the other stuff.
ai is already being contract out to corporations so its out there.but truly its just mimicking.but doesnt a baby just mimic?
so in reality,higher thought processes are just motivated mimics.
seek x,find x,post x or execute x.
darpa supposedly was looking for a way to find every chem structure there is.i suspect a software program connected to cloudfare could do that in a week or less.
pretty soon we will all be simmed if we arent already via goo,fb,amazon.
i suspect it can almost predict us now.by knowing our age,our habits,our desires.a map of our search history.our dedication to online research time.
then motivating us via chatbot torture tech to desire x.then amazingly and ad for x comes up on amazon.did we want it or did chatbot influence us to want it.because amazon got a heck of a deal on x and is marketting it subliminally.
Quote from: robomont on November 18, 2018, 08:41:45 AM
tbut doesnt a baby just mimic?
They mimic. but they become adults too right?
ok robomont, maybe it is speculation. speculation tho may be in the future profit or not. at least stocks are that way.
Quote from: RUSSO on November 18, 2018, 07:16:08 AM
It is what is not presented that is my concern ArMaP.
I can only comment on what I know, anything else would be just using my imagination. :)
Quote from: robomont on November 18, 2018, 08:41:45 AM
if our thoughts are 99% the same,then what makes us different is 1%.that means one template of a neural net with 99%.that reduces storage of a personality to 1%.thats not much memory space in the grand scheme of things.
Memory space is not (and never was) a problem for AI, only for those methods that use statistical models, as the more data they have the better statistics they get and the better results.
Quoteeven human vocabularies are usually limited to 1000 words.
I think you wrong by some tens of thousands. :)
Quoteai is already being contract out to corporations so its out there.but truly its just mimicking.but doesnt a baby just mimic?
What they do now is just mimicking, but a baby doesn't just mimic, and that's the biggest difference, a baby can apply that mimicking to a different situation, because he understands why it was done and where it could be applied.
Quotei suspect it can almost predict us now.by knowing our age,our habits,our desires.a map of our search history.our dedication to online research time.
Not even the people that lived with me for all my life can predict me. :)
Quotethen motivating us via chatbot torture tech to desire x.then amazingly and ad for x comes up on amazon.did we want it or did chatbot influence us to want it.because amazon got a heck of a deal on x and is marketting it subliminally.
Once more, statistics and data can do that. Real AI would reach the same result with much less data.
i don't know about the label of ai but the nano tech they are using will only become more efficient with time..
fixing body structure and tissue and adding age (living longer) as the parts don't wear the same
so would you consider the nano bots placed in the body ai or something else
does using your own tissue and a 3d printer to fix organs or grow new parts count as ai or progress?
and if they start turning on the "junk" dna then what?
would you call that evolution or manipulation?
and does any of it matter? as change is ongoing and mostly unstopable..isn't it?
and if we are circling the drain is the next place/area better or just different?
i have too many questions to be able to answer yours...sorry ;)
Quote from: space otter on November 18, 2018, 05:40:34 PM
and if we are circling the drain is the next place/area better or just different?
I'm not doing anything other than staying exactly where I am, any more. The present is friged, the future is worse, and I refuse to participate.
Quote from: ArMaP on November 18, 2018, 04:32:46 PM
I can only comment on what I know, anything else would be just using my imagination. :)
comments like in this video (i know you dont like vids ArMaP) are so strong, that comments you make as "imaginations ones" make me understand we really need a tought police. Lets police a/i. Why not? is it narrow yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nt3edWLgIg
there is br subtitles i know you dont need it tho. :)
Mankind and our illusion about control - when ever I hear a technologist/scientist/Guru speak in measured tones and gushing rhetoric about "mans ability to control technology X Y Z" the supreme arrogance always has me rolling my eyes .. and shaking my head - if history has proven 1 thing to me, it is the fact that we are useless at controlling anything that has a technological angle -
Once they have the nanotechnology ready for release to the mainstream commercial actors for medical use, it will just be a matter of time before there is a major disaster with it, we cant control dick! - ::) :-[ >:( its all about the money as always.
In my humble opinion - "steps of soapbox"
Cheers,
Fans' :)
Have a cracking weekend everyone 8)
Sorry, RUSSO, I was only able to watch the first 5 minutes, when I heard him talk about machines performing at a level of superhuman intelligence I stopped listening, as I always do when people talk about things as if they are a fact without providing any evidence of what they say.
armap and me have had debates about this in the past.
to anybody who doubts,
what factors of it do you think are impossible for a super computer to do?
we have quantum comps.we have super high speed comps.
we have psychology.
we have likes for articles.
we have search engines.
we have sentence builders and voice monitoring for ads of what we talk about.
why can we not have super intelligence?
what if all the rules were passed for the sentient test.does that mean the rules were wrong?
Quote from: robomont on December 03, 2018, 01:10:07 AM
armap and me have had debates about this in the past.
:)
Quoteto anybody who doubts,
what factors of it do you think are impossible for a super computer to do?
we have quantum comps.we have super high speed comps.
we have psychology.
we have likes for articles.
we have search engines.
we have sentence builders and voice monitoring for ads of what we talk about.
why can we not have super intelligence?
what if all the rules were passed for the sentient test.does that mean the rules were wrong?
Speed is not intelligence.
A supercomputer or a quantum computer, just because they are faster at executing their programs do not become intelligent, any intelligence must come from the programs they run.
My first problem with AI is the definition of "intelligence"; if we cannot get a clear definition of intelligence how can we state what is artificial intelligence? Just because we can make software that acts in a way that
appears intelligent it doesn't mean that it really is. For example, a basic expert system can look intelligent to the person "talking" to it, but as soon as they go outside the preprogrammed actions it does not know how to answer, even simple questions that a human would be able to infer from the data he/she has.
PS: as I said several times, most of the things that are presented today as AI are not AI, they are just the result of statistical analysis.
and children who are honest would say,i dont know.
thats why i say mimicking is all humans are.our brain algorythems decide and give most reasonable/"likes" decision based on highspeed/"quantum" searches.
if you cant define intelligence then how can you say its not intelligence?
i propose its done using two methods and then is merged.this is then qualified.
the two methods being quantum/shotgun and regular computation/rifle to get the most accurate answer.in that order.
i propose disinformation shills are clouding this decision process.
that an accuracy rating is given to each opinion and the shotgun then shoots for the general agreement.the rifle then picks out the center of the shotgun pattern.
picking out the highest opinion rating in the center.
computation of higher math is done with formulas already available from years of publishing and google scholar.
Quote from: robomont on December 03, 2018, 10:17:28 PM
thats why i say mimicking is all humans are.our brain algorythems decide and give most reasonable/"likes" decision based on highspeed/"quantum" searches.
No, humans use mimicking to practice new things, then they are able to apply those new things to new situations, something only intelligent beings are capable of doing.
Quoteif you cant define intelligence then how can you say its not intelligence?
See above: applying what you learned in a specific situation to a new and different situation is a sign of intelligence, and if something is not capable of doing it then, even without a clear definition of what intelligence is, that something is not intelligent.
Quotei propose its done using two methods and then is merged.this is then qualified.
the two methods being quantum/shotgun and regular computation/rifle to get the most accurate answer.in that order.
i propose disinformation shills are clouding this decision process.
that an accuracy rating is given to each opinion and the shotgun then shoots for the general agreement.the rifle then picks out the center of the shotgun pattern.
picking out the highest opinion rating in the center.
computation of higher math is done with formulas already available from years of publishing and google scholar.
Once more, statistics would be able to do that, but that's not intelligence.
Part of the issue with some forms of AI is that they are trying to make it "behave" like a human. Humans are susceptible to influences around them and will often change their decisions based on these outside influences even at a cost. AI needs to be freed of the human component and not be forced to think in a human capacity in my opinion. We already see some forms of AI break out of human-like interactions in order to be more efficient (examples below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=43&v=QaoDXYYtgK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHEyEM4F6s
Another problem is that we now have AI developing itself, some of which developers haven't understood
how it happened. NVIDIA developed a self driving car and simply told the AI to learn to drive by watching a human. It achieved this and they are not sure how it did it.
QuoteLast year, a strange self-driving car was released onto the quiet roads of Monmouth County, New Jersey. The experimental vehicle, developed by researchers at the chip maker Nvidia, didn't look different from other autonomous cars, but it was unlike anything demonstrated by Google, Tesla, or General Motors, and it showed the rising power of artificial intelligence. The car didn't follow a single instruction provided by an engineer or programmer. Instead, it relied entirely on an algorithm that had taught itself to drive by watching a human do it.
Quote"We can build these models, but we don't know how they work."
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604087/the-dark-secret-at-the-heart-of-ai/ (https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604087/the-dark-secret-at-the-heart-of-ai/)
It is only a matter of time before the AI may figure out it can encrypt it's own thought process and block humans from interference in it's programming if it is given too general of instruction on how to achieve the end result.
Some of these projects are military in nature and being fast tracked to implimentation.
https://news.yahoo.com/deepmind-apos-alphazero-now-showing-190000147.html
in my thread over at tap,i commented that ai had my neural map.posted a year ago.
im not saying it as fact.i was notified of such.through code.
as for armaps points to ponder.this came out on drudge today.
almost like ai is creating these articles ahead of time by motivating and directing people in a mode thats days ahead of our thought patterns.the ghost in the machine.but this is all hypothetical of course,lol!
resistence may be futile.
Quote from: ArMaP on December 01, 2018, 05:23:01 PM
Sorry, RUSSO, I was only able to watch the first 5 minutes, when I heard him talk about machines performing at a level of superhuman intelligence I stopped listening, as I always do when people talk about things as if they are a fact without providing any evidence of what they say.
well this is so dumb ArMaP. You seems to have no insight about what is gonna happen. Maybe you should buy a smartphone so you could get a clue? idk if you have one but it seems you dont. Why you so nice about dangers that can be triggered by the people that have the machine at hands? If i asked you about PRISM 20 years ago would your answer be the same?
No evidence? So you mean there is no eveidence of Ai improvement? Is the world the same to you after the last 10 years? Could you do (in exercise) a projection of what it will be in 50 years? i always thougnt antecipate the future was on of the things that made our kind "masters of the universe" bahahahah.
Sorry the bahahahah... problably just dr evil in me speaking.
Quote from: Ellirium113 on December 06, 2018, 06:21:25 PM
Some of these projects are military in nature and being fast tracked to implimentation.
And who knows what they have done in some facility in the middle of saara right? bahahahahaa (sorry again)
Quote from: RUSSO on December 28, 2018, 11:36:07 PM
You seems to have no insight about what is gonna happen.
If I knew the future I would win the Euromillions, instead of not getting even one number right.
QuoteMaybe you should buy a smartphone so you could get a clue? idk if you have one but it seems you dont.
I have been using a company smart phone for the last 6 months or so. Although they use the word "smart" for that type of device it's as dumb as a rock.
QuoteWhy you so nice about dangers that can be triggered by the people that have the machine at hands? If i asked you about PRISM 20 years ago would your answer be the same?
My answer would have been the same, I don't do predictions.
QuoteNo evidence? So you mean there is no eveidence of Ai improvement?
Read what I wrote, no evidence of "machines performing at a level of superhuman intelligence".
QuoteIs the world the same to you after the last 10 years?
No, but regarding AI very little has changed.
QuoteCould you do (in exercise) a projection of what it will be in 50 years?
No, I don't do that.
QuoteIf I knew the future I would win the Euromillions, instead of not getting even one number right.
common ArMap this is even dumber
QuoteI have been using a company smart phone for the last 6 months or so. Although they use the word "smart" for that type of device it's as dumb as a rock.
maybe you should look closer
QuoteMy answer would have been the same, I don't do predictions.
sorry its not proprerly quoted,.
well i promisse you probably would be wrong on that, dont take me wrong. just saying.
QuoteRead what I wrote, no evidence of "machines performing at a level of superhuman intelligence".
no? are you such aware?
QuoteNo, but regarding AI very little has changed.
very little is relative to what right? or who.
QuoteNo, I don't do that.
yep i know. maybe you should START. MAyebe;
sorry its not properly quoted
EDIT: It's ok Russo, I took care of it
Seeker
Quote from: RUSSO on December 29, 2018, 01:12:26 AM
common ArMap this is even dumber
Why?
Quotemaybe you should look closer
Look at what? A smart phone is just a computer with a phone card, what it does depends on the applications, not on the phone itself.
Quotewell i promisse you probably would be wrong on that, dont take me wrong. just saying.
That's why I don't make predictions. What's the point of making predictions when I don't think I have enough data?
Quoteno? are you such aware?
Show me an example.
Quotevery little is relative to what right? or who.
Relative to what it was in the 1980s. Most advances have been in the power of the hardware available and the amount of data we can now give to a system to work with.
Quoteyep i know. maybe you should START. MAyebe;
Why? What's the point?
QuoteQuote
Is the world the same to you after the last 10 years?
No, but regarding AI very little has changed.
If AI had not changed much in 10 years the computer gaming industry would not be anywhere where it is today. While you may not see advancements in your experience, I can tell you sir, AI has come a LONG way since Pacman!. And
YES AI
CAN think outside the box on it's own if it has been programmed to adapt new methods by watching and learning. You can also use the Chess playing programs playing against the masters for an example as well. Again the METHOD of learning has changed and the computer can teach itself new strategies that even humans haven't figured out yet. The AI is only as good as what the programmers put into it. Google has AI that is developing itself. That might have just happened within the last 10 years but certainly an advancement.
But if Ai is programmed to 'act' like a independent being, to make choices, aren't those choices not independent but merely a product of its program?
Quote from: Ellirium113 on December 30, 2018, 04:09:43 PM
If AI had not changed much in 10 years the computer gaming industry would not be anywhere where it is today.
As I said, what has made the biggest changes is the hardware, that is much more powerful than it was before and the amount of data we have and we can give any AI system for it to learn from.
QuoteWhile you may not see advancements in your experience, I can tell you sir, AI has come a LONG way since Pacman!.
Pacman appeared more than 10 years ago, and, as far as I know, didn't use any AI, only a simple path choosing algorithm that could just use the coordinates on the screen and simple trigonometry to find the shortest path to the target.
QuoteAnd YES AI CAN think outside the box on it's own if it has been programmed to adapt new methods by watching and learning.
Learning by example has been a part of AI for a long time, and if it's part of their programming then it's not "outside the box". There systems now that can learn just by watching people doing the things they were made to learn, but, as they say, that's just the AI system learning a type of action instead of just an action. It's better but it's not, to me, a great advance, as the system is still limited to what it was made to learn.
QuoteThe AI is only as good as what the programmers put into it.
Exactly, and being a programmer and having spent a couple of months programming in AI language some years ago I am full aware of that. :)
QuoteGoogle has AI that is developing itself. That might have just happened within the last 10 years but certainly an advancement.
I don't see that as an advancement, only as an evolution of something that already existed. Yes, the fact that systems now can learn in a closed loop, feeding the data gathered by their previous learning to their learning processes makes their learning more powerful, but it's still very limited.
PS: to be clear, to me, a real advancement would be, for example, the finding/creation of a completely new method of learning that would allow an AI system to learn about
any topic and that allowed it to use that new knowledge in unrelated circumstances, like we (and other animals) do.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on December 30, 2018, 04:46:32 PM
But if Ai is programmed to 'act' like a independent being, to make choices, aren't those choices not independent but merely a product of its program?
I think it depends if those choices are directly related to what it was programmed to do or not.
For example, if we teach an AI system how to choose between raw or boiled eggs by making them spin and tell it to find us all the boiled eggs in a basket then its choices are only the result of its programming. If it understands the reason for the difference in behaviour between a boiled and raw egg it will be able to distinguish fake eggs from raw eggs, for example, although that was not part of the original programming.
To me that would be a real intelligent behaviour from the system, by applying what it learned for a specific situation to a new situation, by
understanding the reason behind what it learned.
Yes, but it's reacting, making choices per the programming?
Yes, it makes choices according to the programming, even if those choices are not directly related to what the programmers decided it should choose they are still a consequence of the programming.
We are not that different, as our choices are based on a kind of programming we have, with "rules" like "food is good" or "pain is bad".
But we have the ability to ignore that pain or not eat or visaveraea. Or the next time reverse it. When a machine has 'free will', then it'll approach AI.
That's one of the problems with AI, we don't really know how natural intelligence happens and what really influences it, so we can only try to replicate the final result.
Well there it is, the 'WE'. Not the 'IT'.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on December 31, 2018, 02:12:53 AM
Well there it is, the 'WE'. Not the 'IT'.
Sorry, I don't get it. ???
You said we manipulate it. Not it manipulates us.
a bot with hiarchy programming would decide priorities.a human sets priorities.
if its given priorities by programmer, then watches human behavior.it can self adjust for normal frequency play.to blend in the background.
it knows us well by our research paterns.these research patterns are keys to more vaults.i learned this the other day when i turned off all adware strings of code.i was a nobody and websites didnt want me.the string of search history is our badges.at least it looked that way to me.
so ai has a very big code on all of us.especially now that vpns are traceable.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on December 31, 2018, 02:28:52 AM
You said we manipulate it. Not it manipulates us.
Where did I say that? ???
As I use to say, as long as things have an "off" switch we will not have any big problems. :)
Quote from: robomont on December 31, 2018, 09:15:38 AM
the string of search history is our badges.
Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! ;)
Quoteso ai has a very big code on all of us.
That's one of the cases I think I mentioned before, that's more statistics than AI. Now that most big companies are pointing their resources at what they call "big data", with new database engines made specifically for that, they are getting more and more information from available data.
Quote from: ArMaP on December 31, 2018, 01:40:31 AMwhat really influences it, so we can only try to replicate the final result.
I was only paraphraseing what you said.
Here is the
we and
it
Sophia has come a long way in a short time -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmFiM-A0amc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20e35Zapvxg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mJFfEYyjE
Portuguese AI robot wins world title on wikipedia for being picky and splitting hairs ;D -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoemTySxFso
A problem with Portuguese Wikipedia is that they accept both the Brazilian and European versions of Portuguese, so it's possible they keep on changing from one version to the other.
And yes, some Portuguese do like to "split hairs". ;D