I have looked at nasa's images and am suprised by the lack of detail.
I have photographed craters Aristarchus and Romer over the last six
months, from my back yard,using a meade etx-125, 2x
barlow, and meade dsi II color and orion starshoot.Ran the video through
registax.What I see is not what is shown at nasa, as far as I can tell.Will
include a sample of my photos.Please comment and give me some info.
08rubicon, of course your photos are different from Never A Straight Answer's; unless you decide to let them do their wonderful airbrush magick on your footage; then it will match. ;D but I would suggest sending your footage to Sgt. Rock n Roll; he has the ways and means to do a top notch analysis for you. He has posted some very interesting images here for us already...
also looking forward to more of your photos to peruse 8)
seeker
Quote from: 08rubicon on April 20, 2012, 12:34:54 AM
I have looked at nasa's images and am suprised by the lack of detail.
I have photographed craters Aristarchus and Romer over the last six
months, from my back yard,using a meade etx-125, 2x
barlow, and meade dsi II color and orion starshoot.Ran the video through
registax.What I see is not what is shown at nasa, as far as I can tell.Will
include a sample of my photos.Please comment and give me some info.
Hi, Since you must have already done a comparison on your photos to NASA photos, would you mind sharing which NASA photos you compared them to? The 3 photos on this thread were at 822x694, 390x348, 748x577 pixels. Did I get that right. If so what are you originals? Or what is the resolution, pixel to actual size. ( example: 1 pixel = 1 mile ) I really like to compare apples to apples if possible. Low res photos hide a lot. But large mountains and valleys should be similar.
A good first step I use is to bring a low res in with a high res and size them to the same scale to see the difference. Then go from there.
Thanks, Deuem
reply to deuem- I wish I could answer your questions..The only image of crater romer I can find is
at www.nrl.navy.mil/clm/ -the clementine luner map, and google earth/moon..looks like the same
image..My unit will give max resolution of one mile +..Pixel size is 3.6 x 3.6 microns..My images
of romer show something in the upper side of crater that is not in any official image I can find.I think
it is a dome structure about six miles wide x thirty miles long, perhaps covering a mining opperation ?
thanks
Quote from: 08rubicon on May 14, 2012, 06:19:45 PM
reply to deuem- I wish I could answer your questions..The only image of crater romer I can find is
at www.nrl.navy.mil/clm/ -the clementine luner map, and google earth/moon..looks like the same
image..My unit will give max resolution of one mile +..Pixel size is 3.6 x 3.6 microns..My images
of romer show something in the upper side of crater that is not in any official image I can find.I think
it is a dome structure about six miles wide x thirty miles long, perhaps covering a mining opperation ?
thanks
Ok Rubicon, How about going back into Google Moon as a start. I am not saying that is the best place to start but it can easily be done. And free! ( I like free ) If you can grab the same snap shot there and then close in on it, a comparison can start. You can then find/share the moon coordinates. Once you have them just type them into any search engine and you will come up with all sorts of photos found. I always search Moon locations by the coordinates. Try it and let us know.
In this world everything is based on resolution. You must go for the highest you can find.
Also were the photo sizes I listed for your prints correct? Are the masters larger?
I love Moon shots and working on them so I guess you have a new friend, Keep it up.
In my last active forum I spent several years working with another Moon friend. I wonder if he would be interested in this. Last I checked he gave up the moon in favor of politics. But that could change.
Also I do all of my work in meters. If you post miles can you add both. I was also schooled in the American/English system of measure and it took me years to convert my brain. In the end the metric system is easy to learn, All 10 based. In Google Earth I even changed my defaults to metric to help me learn.
Deuem
Deuem; image 3-28-1stax, origional size-640 x 480 stacked to
822 x 694 -- image 4-6-1stax , origional size 640 x 480, stacked to
390 x 348-- image moon s2 , origional with dsi II color cam, size
748 x 577. Crater aristarchus images are common, crater romer images
only can be found(by me) on google and www.nrl.navy.mil/clm at
25.5 degrees N and 36.5 degrees E . Thanks for the info..
More images- all meade dsI II color size 748 x 577
08rubicon
We have a resident member who is more than familiar with the Clementine archive (ArMaP). I have sent an email so hopefully he can track down any decent images of Romer Crater and see what we find. If there appears to be something I will contact my local observatory and ask them to photograph the crater or better still ask them to assist me in the endeavor.
Does that sound like plan?
Try this link
http://lpod.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-3673
http://the-moon.wikispaces.com/R%C3%B6mer
http://lpod.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=3673&fullsize=1
Is this the one?
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/Romer.jpg)
Deuem
pimander and deuem-The plan is what I was wanting to happen, and the image
is of crater romer - notice that below and left of romer is one small crater with
nothing showing in the upper portion of romer..check my image of romer, and
see three small craters lower left, 2 newer than the one shown by nasa. Also,
you will see in my image something large ( 6 miles wide x thirty or so miles
long ) in the upper right side of the crater. Thanks for all your help in finding
an answer to this anomoly.
Hi, is there any way you could mark up a copy of the photo. It is easy to see the buldge you are talking about but which craters on the lower left? The whole place is craters.
Deuem
Sorry for taking so long to answer, I had a problem with the Clementine database I use, so I had to use the older method. :)
That crater appears on two of those larger Clementine images (images that are in fact mosaics made with several photos.
There are also some Kaguya/Selene photos, but I am almost falling asleep, I already made some 8 mistakes in this post. :)
PS: I may even have the wrong photos, but I don't think so.
PPS: apparently the images are too big, I will try to post them tomorrow. Sorry. :(
This is half of the real resolution of the images, but I guess that's enough for this.
http://starbase.jpl.nasa.gov/archive/clem1-l-u-5-dim-uvvis-v1.0/cl_4011/browse/750nm/large/ui24n033.htm
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think only half the crater is visible or that image (36.4E). :-/
ETA: Oh, it's the smaller one just below that one isn't it? My mistake. LOL
ETA: Doh! ignore edit! ::)
Here is my summary of the best images I have so far.
08rubicon has taken 2 images using an optical scope in their back yard where Romer is clearly visible.
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1152.0;attach=955;image)
As you can see there is a triple crater visible to the SW of the main crater (Romer A?).
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1152.0;attach=951;image)
The triple crater is also visible on this image taken with the same scope (I think).
(http://www.lpod.org/coppermine/http://lpod.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-368displayimage.php?pid=3673&fullsize=1)
(http://lpod.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_Romer_LO-IV-073H_LTVT.JPG)
This image is from a Lunar Orbiter shot, which has already been posted by Deuem. There is no triple crater visible. SOURCE: http://lpod.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-3673
(http://lpod.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_Romer-Clementine.jpg)
Finally we have one from Clementine (colour). Again we don't see the triple crater to the SW. SOURCE: http://lpod.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-368
Please correct me if that summary is wrong.
The big question for me is...... Are you sure you have taken pictures of Romer with your scope?
Does any of the surrounding landscape match the Lunar Orbiter or Clementine images? I suspect not. The Clementine and Lunar Orbiter images closely match whereas the 08rubicon ones appear to have different terrain around them. Also notice how the edge of the crater to the SW is so close to the main crater that it appears to "touch" it. In the Clementine and LO images Romer D to the SW is some distance away from Romer A.
Of course I could be completely wrong in which case one of you will shoot me down in flames shortly? I hope so because if there is a triple crater to the SW of Romer then perhaps we have a discovery on our hands. ;)
Hi all,
ask John to post the 224 page of the Lunar Orbiter Photographic Atlas,
page 224 , photo number IV-73-H3.
I can't do it : my scanner is out ...
Hope that will help !
Have a good day !
Guerande
Would that be th surrounding area by any chance?
If yes, does the crater pictured by 08rubicon look like it is definitely Romer?
Don't think so ...
But I'm not a specialist, just " amateur ".
The images do not correspond.
John , plse, yr advice ? :)
All the best
Guerande
Quote from: Pimander on May 17, 2012, 09:43:59 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think only half the crater is visible or that image (36.4E). :-/
It's true, only half of Romer crater, and I am starting to think that we are looking at the wrong crater, as the area doesn't look like the area around Römer crater.
I sense the same conclusion. OP, can you try again to locate your photo on Google moon and get the coorodinates angain. Something feels odd. Can you match it up and screen shoot it.
Deuem
That's a relief. I was worried for a moment there that everyone else was convinced it was Romer that 08rubicon had shot! ::)
You probably think that's odd but when nobody else said anything.... LOL
Quote from: Pimander on May 18, 2012, 09:08:28 AM
That's a relief. I was worried for a moment there that everyone else was convinced it was Romer that 08rubicon had shot! ::)
You probably think that's odd but when nobody else said anything.... LOL
WHEW! glad you said it...I didn't think they were the same either, but not being an expert in such matters, even though I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, I didn't want to make a fool out of myself... :o ;)
Peace 8)
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on May 18, 2012, 01:32:43 PM
WHEW! glad you said it...I didn't think they were the same either, but not being an expert in such matters, even though I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, I didn't want to make a fool out of myself... :o ;)
I'm not an expert. This is a hobby only for me. ArMaP knows far more about lunar/planetary imaging than I do.
However, I'm always willing to stick my neck out when something doesn't smell right. It gets me into arguments with "experts" and sometimes I turn out to be wrong. On the upside, often it helps us all learn just as much when we explore an idea or argument without too much fear of being wrong. I'm willing to look foolish occasionally in the name of truth. :o
People who ask many questions may appear to be ignorant. However, people who ask none will remain ignorant forever.
Ahem ;)
Pimander--I am sure of the crater romer, however, at full moon, the image
of romer is not clear in my photos..sort of like haze or dust over the crater..
also 'seeing' is not good at full moon-too bright..will try to find a full moon
shot, and a wide angle shot to verify location.. I am not very good at altering
my images..barely able to post them.kinda new at this -sorry.
thanks much
O.K., you have hit on the origional problem..My images do not match anything
official of crater romer.I have the correct crater, and have compared the
area to clementine map. It seems the official image is either very old, 1994 or
before, and the three newer craters in the lower left are very fresh, or the official version is computer generated. I am looking forward to something
from the clementine resident expert. I have come to the limit of my equipement
and knowledge..I am at a loss as to the 'construct' I see in my images. I do not seem to be able to mark up my images, but the new craters have not been
named as they do not exist in any official image..this image is taken near full moon, and seeing is poor and the moon surface is obscured by haze or dust.
thanks for all the help.
Quote from: 08rubicon on May 19, 2012, 03:39:25 AM
O.K., you have hit on the origional problem..My images do not match anything
official of crater romer.
Is this new image you posted from the same area? If it is then I think this is one of those cases in which the shadows change so much the area that we cannot recognise it. That's why Kaguya/Selene images have a "morning" and "evening" version, besides the "mapping" version.
I will look more into this. :)
Are you sure that's not crater Piccolomini?
On Google Moon.
(http://i.imgur.com/9Onavnz.jpg)
On the Clementine image browser.
(http://i.imgur.com/GbdCU9L.jpg)
You may know that the moon is not a stationary target. It and the earth are
floating in space. The earth rotates on it's axis and wobbels( seasons), and the
moon rotates on it's axis, and is said to wobble, as it orbits the earth.The ralation of the target crater will change from one photo sesion to the next,and will look different slightly hour by hour, day by day and month to month,where-as the map image is static in a north orintation,and does not change.So, it is reasonable that the area around the crater will appear different as the position of the camera and the angle of the sun changes..Notice the relationship between crater romer and crater le monnier in my image and the map image.
Crater posidonius does not show in my image as my camera has limited field
of view. The moon will be in position for a new image at end of month.
Quote from: 08rubicon on May 20, 2012, 04:59:34 PM
You may know that the moon is not a stationary target.
I know that.
QuoteIt and the earth are floating in space.
I know that too.
QuoteThe earth rotates on it's axis and wobbels( seasons), and the moon rotates on it's axis, and is said to wobble, as it orbits the earth.
I know that too.
QuoteThe ralation of the target crater will change from one photo sesion to the next,and will look different slightly hour by hour, day by day and month to month,where-as the map image is static in a north orintation,and does not change.
I don't understand what you mean by "The ralation of the target crater will change from one photo sesion to the next", the relation (I suppose that was what you meant) with what?
QuoteSo, it is reasonable that the area around the crater will appear different as the position of the camera and the angle of the sun changes..Notice the relationship between crater romer and crater le monnier in my image and the map image.
I looked at that several times, and I don't see how those two images may be showing the same area.
In the image below I try to explain what I see in common in your photos that show the supposed crater Römer and what I don't see on your photo that shows Mare Serenitatis.
(http://i.imgur.com/5GC9cFA.png)
One of the things that makes me think that your photo does not show crater Römer is the direction of the light, as the shadows are almost from north, something that, as far as I know, doesn't happen. That's why I thought of rotating the image and look for areas that look like your photo, and, to me, the area where we can see crater Piccolomini and crater Fracastorius looks like your photo.
Bellow you can see the comparison between the features visible in your photos and the features on the Piccolomoni crater area.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ab2odTX.png)
PS: I made the Google Moon image a little darker to make the features more easily noticeable. :)
Edited to add a view from the Piccolomoni crater area, taken by Kaguya/Selene, the "morning" version.
(http://i.imgur.com/PUZr4Wx.jpg)
I see your point - will study this further thanks for ihe input
Armap- You are correct. My own images show that piccolomini is the crater
we have been looking at..I appreciate all the comments and imput from
everyone..We can put this episode to bed... thanks again I saw the connection
by rotating google moon piccolomini image 90 deg. to the left..It was then very
plain to see....thanks for your help..
08rubicon
Thanks ArMaP. Did you just spot the correct crater by browsing Google Moon or did you use an image search with a browser?
Quote from: 08rubicon on May 21, 2012, 03:45:08 AM
I appreciate all the comments and imput from everyone..We can put this episode to bed... thanks again.
No worries mate. This was worthwhile as an exercise for a number of reasons, in my opinion. Don't stop looking.
Oh yes. I'm going to change the title of this thread probably as we could do with one called "NASA Images" that explains how to find and use them when looking for anomalies.
Also to all readers. Don't let it make you fear making mistakes. If we learn from our mistakes then people who make none learn nothing. ;)
Quote from: Pimander on May 21, 2012, 10:03:18 AM
Thanks ArMaP. Did you just spot the correct crater by browsing Google Moon or did you use an image search with a browser?
By browsing Google Moon. :)
Looking at the shadows I thought that shadows like that would be nearer to the poles, but as nearer the north pole things look different (I usually look for the same type of geology, as it makes things easier), I looked into the south.
Unfortunately, image search does not work that good, and my image search project has been suspended for a long time, as I haven't had time for it. :(
In future I also think it will be worth asking anyone posting their own Moon pictures whether North on the picture is actually North. ::)
Check out www.lunar.gfsc.nasa.gov and click on 'lunar reconnaissance
orbiter' looks like a good map
08rubicon
08rubicon oh very impressive, nice very nice ;) what location did you take the pics at?
i'm sorry if you have said i skipped a few pages just to say good job! is there any NASA stuff or other agency stuff left up there you can get a shot of?
I use a meade etx-125-at with an orion ssIV video cam and
run the video in registax..I took the images from central u.s.a.
08 rubicon