Found these interesting articles on this website..
There are some MJ12 documents that seem to have been copied...some that had been attempted to be destroyed but were saved...Hard to say if its for real or a Hoax...
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects71.htm
Scroll down 2/3rds down the page to :
JFK MJ-12
Part 1: Original Scorched Carbon of CIA Memo LinksGovernment UFO Cover-Up and JFK Assassination
Then scroll down over 3/4 of the scroll bar within the page .
"This Oppenheimer-Einstein Draft says the presence of unidentified spacecraft is accepted as de facto by themilitary, and the date is June 1947 - before the alleged crashs of discs or wedge-shaped aerial vehicles inNew Mexico. It deals with the subjects that you'd expect competent scientists to deal with; i.e., where do thenon-humans come from, what does the law say about it, what should we do, and why are they here? Thoseare the subjects of this June 1947 six-page document."On the first page of the six-page document, note the TOP SECRET classification. As you can see, there arenot many extra marks on the document. The last page shows no signatures, but it does show VannevarBush's initials after the note that essentially says, 'I don't think that we should let Einstein talk to thePresident,' and MJ-9 Gordon Gray agrees."While the language usage does not reflect the refined writing of Oppenheimer, it is easy to imagine thatEinstein, dictating with an accent, might have produced these words. The principal factors favoringauthenticity of the Oppenheiimer-Einstein Draft are:- Literary analysis compares favorably with other Albert Einstein pieces during 1940s such as the use of Latin, German and Jewish words.- Period manual typewriter.- Authentic Vannevar Bush handwritten initials 'VB' on last page.- Einstein officially retired from the Institute of Advanced Studies in 1945, but continued to live and work inPrinceton, New Jersey, when the draft was written in 1947."Further, the document suggests that in the event that EBEs desire to settle here on Earth, there will be'profound change in traditional concepts' of law and the possible need for a new 'Law Among PlanetaryPeoples.' There are also propositions concerning the necessary creation of a 'Cosmic International law' thatwould protect the rights of all celestial states to lay claim on otherwise unclaimed solar territories. Finally,the document addresses the presence of celestial astroplanes in our atmosphere as possibly a result of Earthmilitary experiments with nuclear fission and fusion warfare devices. Oppenheimer and Einstein encourageconsideration of our potential Earth future situation and safety due to our present and past actions in space.How can we avoid a perilous fate?"
Here is a part of your link that caught my attention.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects71.htm
A second set of circumstantial evidence concerns a leaked document that claims that Kennedy knew, while serving in the U.S. Congress, about UFO crashes and the recovery of alien bodies. As a former Naval Intelligence officer, Kennedy was deemed reliable to receive such highly classified information. While the authenticity of the document in question, "Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit Summary," is disputed, the U.S. Army did finally acknowledge through FOIA responses that the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit did at one time exist and was abolished in the late1950s.
I don't understand the ARmys involvement.I would like to verify that connection.. I suspect that this group was a privately missioned group with NO military ties to answer to.... but thats just my impression knowing the people that I feel were involved in it.
For whatever it is worth.... I believe that I overheard a conversation between my father, Townsend Brown and Helen Towt ( Navy Reserve) at our home in Leesburg Va in 1955. They didn't see me at first and Dad asked her....." so how are things going at the IPU? "She started to answer and then suddenly caught sight of me out of the corner of her eye ( I was just nine then). She laughed and simply responded...." Oh! Stinky as always Townsend!" and then they went on to other subjects.
Helen and Dad though shared much in common... she had worked at Wright Patterson. earlier... and in 1955 was working at a law office in Leesburg which was affiliated , I learned later, with General Marshal who had a home on the outskirts of town.
Helen was a close family friend and I believe had contacts that I am still trying to uncover.
She was actually the person who named NICAP when Dad first formed it and though she never said much I always had the strong impression that the subject of " Flying Saucers" was very much something that she knew alot about. She knew Rose Hacket personally... (a lady who would go on to work at NICAP after Dad left and also knew most of the people who were running NICAP. Most of them had previously met at the home of the lady who posted the " Little Listening Post" which was an early UFO study group newsletter.)
That strange departure from their conversation always puzzled me as a kid....I was curious but knew better than to ask....that particular moment stuck with me though and I have wondered just who the IPU might have been.
Has anyone tracked down where their main base of operation was? Want to bet it was right outside of Washington.... near the town of Leesburg?
Here is some back up information for those of you who are asking .... who the heck are you?
http://www.geeman-headquarters.com/page90.html
"The key to this phase was a then 67-year-old widow named Mrs. Walton C. John - better known as "Clara" to her friends. Clara John was the occasional publisher of a mimeographed tract known as The Little Listening Post which dealt with a variety of of novel and esoteric items, not the least of which was the UFO. In the course of her excursions into the netherworld of the bizarre and the novel, she had come into contact with Townsend brown and by 1955 had managed to maintain an intermittent correspondence with him for several years.
Clara John, however, was far too active a personality to satisfy her interests through mere correspondence. In the spring of 1956, Mrs. John had enthusiastically organized a small circle of friends and acquaintances, all of whom shared a common interest in the UFO, into what came to be called "The Flying Saucer Discussion Group" - an informal collection of the curious and interested which met on a more-or-less monthly basis at the Y.W.C.A. and invited well known figures in the UFO field to speak.
Barely a month later, what was to become the largest, and for a time the most influential, of the UFO organizations was created: "the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena," more commonly referred to as NICAP. On Aug. 29, 1956, a mere two weeks after final endorsement by the Flying Saucer Discussion Group. Townsend Brown filed documents of incorporation for the new organization in the District of Columbia, listing among the Board of Governors two physicists, two ministers, two businessmen, a former rear admiral and a retired army brigadier general. Clara John voiced the hopes of all concerned by stating her expectations that the "floodgates of confusion" in the UFO field had "at last found a safe and orderly outlet."
Does that also sound like the aim of the IPU? Can that organization and these people be so far removed that their paths would not have crossed again and again?
Linda
Quote from: astr0144 on May 09, 2012, 03:38:54 AM
astro -
bibliotecapleyades.net has a lot of interesting information.
The Day Before Roswell information here as well as the Tour Guide information helps put these things in perspective.
Note there is some puzzlement about this being written in June before Roswell. Those up to speed on the news clippings find no puzzlement in this date as they realize it is quite late in the wave that year.
The Tour Guide helps illustrate how presidents come and go, but appointed positions are there for life. They consider politicians nothing more than temporary hollywood celebrities soon to fade from the scene, while it is up to them to carry on the real work of the country with a long term strategy, and no talking head is going to get in their way.
The page you linked is a good example of that.
Quote from: A51Watcher on May 10, 2012, 01:58:58 AM
astro -
The Tour Guide helps illustrate how presidents come and go, but appointed positions are there for life. They consider politicians nothing more than temporary hollywood celebrities soon to fade from the scene, while it is up to them to carry on the real work of the country with a long term strategy, and no talking head is going to get in their way.
The page you linked is a good example of that.
A very good example of this can be found in the words of Bill Clinton during an interview on national TV; " There is a government within the government that I cannot control."
Elected officials of any sort are a temporary position; look into the state department, department of defense, any branch of government that is not elected officials and follow the trial of crumbs...
seeker
I sometimes post and don't always manage to follow up or check what has been wrote or to reply in detail , especially if its an in depth article or topic.
I note Linda's detailed reply and comments...I hope to find time to look further into some of this topic...
A51...I wasn't sure if Maybe I should have posted this in your Roswell thread or not...
Without a doubt there does seem some excellent material wrote in bibliotecapleyades.net..
By any chance are you familiar with Dr Michael Wolfes works..
IF so , I am curious If you think overall that he was truthful in his writings...
I think as You and Seeker comment...Gov as we know it are puppets to keep the masses occupied...No doubt there is various levels that we never get to know about officially...
Its only reports from certain Elite researchers who may release certain details to the likes of those keen enough to try and investigate...or lucky enough to be on forums like PRC !
A very good example of this can be found in the words of Bill Clinton during an interview on national TV; " There is a government within the government that I cannot control."
Wow, seeker, thats the most honest statement from an elected official ever! ;D
Cheers
Littleenki
The main thing to keep in mind about 'the MJ-12' documents is -
- They are 'alleged' to be copies of real documents.
- Even the identity of the person 'leaking' them is unknown.
Very interesting much like Leonard Stringfield's stuff, but until verified one way or another, it does little to further our research.
I find authentic documents wrested from their clutches very interesting and also look to them for corroboration when reading such things as the MJ-12 stuff.
Best source for those is Richard Hall - Uninvited Guests, and also The Black Vault website.
There are many tidbits bubbling to the surface through FOIA released documents, although many are heavily censored, to allow one to get a glimpse of what lies behind the curtain...
just as the staggering number of topics in the public domain that totally contradict the proscribed dogma fed to Joe sixpack by NASA, the military, and the media, it's just a matter of digging for them; Zorgon has provided ample proof of that...
and it does get ones attention when individuals such as Morris Jessup start talking of extraordinary matters they suddenly wind up at room temperature, or falling from high windows...
seeker
"There are some MJ12 documents that seem to have been copied...some that had been attempted to be destroyed but were saved...Hard to say if its for real or a Hoax...
It worries me alot when someone presents material that has been copied.... they say.... from an original.... but they don't bother to say that was done until AFTER they have been called to task on it. When you get caught with your hand in the cook jar like that its really hard to profess your innocence but these guys do it over and over. I don't get it.
Linda
Quote from: the seeker on May 11, 2012, 03:16:35 AM
... and it does get ones attention when individuals such as Morris Jessup start talking of extraordinary matters they suddenly wind up at room temperature, or falling from high windows...
seeker
Or how about winding up with a hundred times the lethal amount of carbon monoxide in your bloodstream from a supposed suicide caused by running a hose from your exaust pipe inside the window of a car and rolling it up.
How are you then supposed to breathe in that much?
Or how about...
never mind I'll just leave it there for now.
I'll just agree with the seeker that cases such as these DO get ones attention as a researcher.
Is it any wonder then that I always used a cover name during my 4 decades of research?
These days everyone in the field knows me as "Dennis" up in Portland. I started using that nick around 1989. ;)
(http://www.disclose.tv/images/thumbs/v_8f14179f61cad1a.jpg)
"EH? my name? is there something wrong, officer? It's Ralph, Ralph Schmidtlapt; I am sorry, but someone picked my pocket at the movies last night, got my billfold and all my i.d."
Caution and prudence are oft times the better part of valor; much info and knowledge can be gained from watching from the shadows, keeping a keen eye, an inquisitive mind, and being careful of the toes exposed around the fine line in the sand...
seeker
When we were in our early twenties and trying to figure out how we could still be together.... me helping Dad in his lab and the fellow Paul Schatzkin called "Morgan"..... globe trotting about..... living his dream of being the next Bond. J.D. Bond <g>..... we decided that someday we would run away together when our " chores" were done.. I was going to be "Gertrude Trogmoller" and he was going to be A"lawicious Humperdink." We figured with names like that NOBODY would bother to look us up!!!
But I suppose these days Brown or Jones or Smith or whatever would do too.
Hiding in plain sight does work at times ;D
but after 5 decades of dealing with all the twists and turns it is simpler and easier to just remain quiet and unnoticed yet still inquisitive and attentive...
seeker
This has stuck in my head. I have not verified my memory of it, though...but it seems to me that someone named Dennis Lee Rose contact Paul Schatzkin and gave him some letters from Morris K. Jessup in which he complained about the way Townsend was running NICAP. He (TTB) had not invited a single person from UoP (or was it the UoP project?) to take a significant position in the new organization.
Perhaps that was in Defying Gravity? or perhaps Paul posted it on his old forum. Forgive me, it's another dropped bit, but I'm putting it out here for anyone who remembers, knows, or cares to research it.
rose
Throw a red flag on that one Rose. We will put it on our hunt list. U of P huh. Thats interesting. Those people keep showing up..... first a student team at Aztec which " just happened" to be first at the crash scene before even the military showed up..... Just interesting how they seem to always be in this story, just somehow under the surface! Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on May 12, 2012, 03:59:05 AM
Throw a red flag on that one Rose. We will put it on our hunt list. U of P huh. Thats interesting. Those people keep showing up..... first a student team at Aztec which " just happened" to be first at the crash scene before even the military showed up..... Just interesting how they seem to always be in this story, just somehow under the surface! Linda
Hey, Linda, its another cosmic haha, as tonight at work,I met a fellow who visited the Aztec site for the last three years, attending the annual festival there. I had never even heard of the site, and now twice in one night, I hear about where the other craft or other piece of the craft fell. Wow!
It is getting daily these hahas, and I cant wait for tomorrows version! LOL!!!!
Cheers!
Littleenki
The linked webpage in your OP explores the possibilty of Kennedy's death being an inside job by official agencies with approval 'from the top'.
While there are many books and documentaries that also point to this conclusion, I think all one really needs to do is have a look at this long- hidden video clip to know everything one needs to know, about if the above conclusion is supported.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RooHng_3wM
NOW do you see who's really running the show around here?