Now, I know this will rile some here a bit. Please don't shoot the messenger.
From: http://www.businessinsider.com/born-again-brain-size-2012-5
QuoteIt turns out there is a relationship between the brain and religion.
Researchers at Duke University monitored changes in the hippocampus of 268 adults of specific religious groups over the course of eight years.
The hippocampus is a region of the brain that plays an important role in emotion as well as memory formation and storage. Atrophy, or shrinking of the hippocampus has been linked to depression, dementia, Alzheimer's disease and chronic stress.
According to the study from 2011, people who said they experienced a life-changing experience showed greater hippocampal atrophy. Born-again Protestants, Catholics and people who had no religious affiliation also had more hippocampal shrinkage than non born-again Protestants.
Read more at the link.
This report is either true or BS. If it riles anyone maybe they need to ask themselves why? ;)
A good thread for some hearty debate, Amy, and one you know I couldnt resist!
Metaphorically, its right on the nose, and to meet a religious person and talk to them about anything alternative to what theyve been indoctrinated with is futile, and frustrating.
The shrinkage spoken of here is directly caused by having a closed mind as opposed to an open one, and is the root of why these people dont see the forest through the trees...religion is designed to narrow the mind, and to cloak the truth beyond a simple mindset that follows prehistoric mind control techniques that are still effective today.
Of course, the rile you talk about is the only weapon they have in their sorry arsenal of outdated myths and half truths of misinterpretations.
I find those who boast about how the bible and its contents are the only truth available, are basically cutting off the foot to spite the leg!
Studies have shown many things shrink the brain...living near power lines, listening to the monotonous bass line in rap music, and having too many children etc,etc, so add one to the fire, and maybe it will extinguish its mindless self someday!
Cheers,
Littleenki
My experience with Catholocism left me with the impression that thinking is not encouraged. I was raised Catholic, experienced the changes implemented by the second Vatican council, and eventually figured out that Catholocism and I aren't really compatible.
Shasta
well my philosophy is to question everything
who the hell decided on this study..who implemented it and who exactly did they study and
what part of the populace did these participants represent
question everything
i was involved with enough research to truly know most of it is bullpoop
some dude has a theory that needs proved so they do a study and
golly gee no matter what the findings..bingo..theory proved..
so who's idea was it to find this out and why
sigh....
here a line further down in the link
Researchers hypothesized that changes in brain size could be linked to long-term stress associated with being a member of a minority religious group.
and an 8 year study..REALLY...whose relative needed to be employed for that long ..
good buddy george sums it up real well.. even if he goes a bit off topic in the middle
George Carlin -Question Everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-QIY7ys-k
i need to qualify that i am not against religion but against non thinking and non questioning
Good input, all of You. I don't know what to make of the study, but it caught My eye and I am glad I brought it here for debate.
Quote from: sky otter on May 15, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
i need to qualify that i am not against religion but against non thinking and non questioning
However, most - but not necessarily all - religion does not encourage thinking.
Religion tends to encourage either faith and/or belief in a particular system based most often an interpretation of scriptures and laws. If thinking were encouraged then people born into Christian families would not mainly grow up to be Christians, Muslim children most often Muslims, Buddhists mostly become Buddhists and so on. Surely that is obvious?
Spirituality and spiritual groups and people (like me) are fine in my book. Mass religion is just one more opium for the masses. It is all about control.
I'm with You on that, Pim. I was raised with no religion - lots of love and ethics, but no religion. I discovered I am very spiritual, interconnected, and such, but could not accept dogma.
Quite frankly, I consider even the thought of doing a "study" on this subject quite funny, and would consider whatever the outcomes of the study, to be very suspect. It just seems pretty incredulous to think that any type of learning has any affect whatsoever on brain size, religious learning included. I guess that from this study, one can conclude that learning 1 +1 = 2 increases the brain size, while learning that Jesus is the son of God reduces the brain size??? HUH? ???
As a matter of interest (as if it matters :)) ), if this be true, then we Christians have Jesus to blame for our having a smaller brain. For, in the Bible, there is a scripture that very directly addresses, on point, why we could blame him for it.
1 Corinthians 2:16
"For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart." (Ampl.)
So, if the God of this universe has given us (we as Christians) his mind, then I guess it is his fault, if it is smaller than a normal brain!!! I can live with that just fine! :) :D ;D
George Carlin. Man, I miss him!
Littleenki said " good thread for some hearty debate, Amy, and one you know I couldn't resist!
Metaphorically, its right on the nose, and to meet a religious person and talk to them about anything alternative to what they've been indoctrinated with is futile, and frustrating"
We don't need to zero in on just one group.... but if you have had any kind of dealings with a "like" group you will see the similarities the fastest.
My husband was born in Massachusetts.... Cape Cod to be exact.... Provincial thinking is their stock in trade. They are a tough group... Portuguese lobstermen on one side of his family and very early settlers on the other. A tough crowd. The weather and the rough seas don't blow them off course and he inherits those traits honestly and I am proud of him for that.
The downside is..... What ever they don't already know.... is not important. Literally. If knowledge hasn't filtered down to them regarding history or useful concepts.... they don't need to know it. And anything that is outside their realm is... highly suspect.
George " escaped". There was enough of the Portuguese romance in his soul to head for warmer climates and he is adventuresome.... but mentally he still harks back to....the easy to repeat phrase. " I don't believe it." And even if you come up with proof... if its uncomfortable... he will reject that.
Its something that we have learned to work around. But I do not discuss " other dimensions" or " alien lifeforms" ( They don't exist you see....because if they did.... we would know about them by now.... simple rationale which actually sometimes is difficult to even dispute!) If we would get into any kind of " conspiracy" discussion he dismisses that with a wave of his hand.
So we talk about things that are solid and understandable... and those are the rules in our house.
Georges family of course was Catholic but I am not looking at that alone as the reason for this attitude... I am sure that we can find it all over this country and worldwide....its a mental " comfort zone" that some of us employ and there are times when I appreciate their stand. Life is far simpler when you just don't think about this stuff and if that means using less of the wondrous gift that we call a brain... then.... its every ones personal choice I guess...... so borrowing from a Buffett song I am sure that I am not the only one whose " heart is in the kitchen but whose soul is in the stars."
Linda
what i find interesting about it is, it suggests if you read texts about spirituality and come to a conclusion, that this degrades your brain. so the overlying message is, "don't have an opinion on anything (except having an opinion that having opinions will make you stewpid)"
hehe
oh no, ole bethy here is not going to fall for this debate about to happen :D
Quote from: undo11 on May 15, 2012, 06:18:34 PM
what i find interesting about it is, it suggests if you read texts about spirituality and come to a conclusion, that this degrades your brain. so the overlying message is, "don't have an opinion on anything (except having an opinion that having opinions will make you stewpid)"
hehe
oh no, ole bethy here is not going to fall for this debate about to happen :D
;D ;D ;D
gawd linda
i'm laughing real hard here
you could be describing any ethnic group that i have come across..
any tirbe or small group who cling to that ..if we needed to change it would have already happened.. ;) ;D
i think my hubby may be realted to george.....sigh..must be some balance of nature we can't agree on this stuff ;D..he does listen so maybe some day...lol
but it must somehow be in the ancient dna that to survive is to cling to a group and group beliefs
to be safe and protected....to me it's the hive mentality and personaliy
scares the bejesus otta my little brain..
i was raised catholic until..like carlin says..i reached the age of reason
got into tons of trouble for asking questions
so what i really take away from this is
stale = no growth
and Beth.. not pickin on you ..i admire your tenacity and accept that
your conclusion is not the same as mine
Quote from: undo11 on May 15, 2012, 06:18:34 PM
what i find interesting about it is, it suggests if you read texts about spirituality and come to a conclusion, that this degrades your brain. so the overlying message is, "don't have an opinion on anything (except having an opinion that having opinions will make you stewpid)"
hehe
oh no, ole bethy here is not going to fall for this debate about to happen :D
You are a trip, beth!!!! :D great response!
Le
Quote from: Linda Brown on May 15, 2012, 05:50:52 PM
George Carlin. Man, I miss him!
Littleenki said " good thread for some hearty debate, Amy, and one you know I couldn't resist!
Metaphorically, its right on the nose, and to meet a religious person and talk to them about anything alternative to what they've been indoctrinated with is futile, and frustrating"
We don't need to zero in on just one group.... but if you have had any kind of dealings with a "like" group you will see the similarities the fastest.
My husband was born in Massachusetts.... Cape Cod to be exact.... Provincial thinking is their stock in trade. They are a tough group... Portuguese lobstermen on one side of his family and very early settlers on the other. A tough crowd. The weather and the rough seas don't blow them off course and he inherits those traits honestly and I am proud of him for that.
The downside is..... What ever they don't already know.... is not important. Literally. If knowledge hasn't filtered down to them regarding history or useful concepts.... they don't need to know it. And anything that is outside their realm is... highly suspect.
George " escaped". There was enough of the Portuguese romance in his soul to head for warmer climates and he is adventuresome.... but mentally he still harks back to....the easy to repeat phrase. " I don't believe it." And even if you come up with proof... if its uncomfortable... he will reject that.
Its something that we have learned to work around. But I do not discuss " other dimensions" or " alien lifeforms" ( They don't exist you see....because if they did.... we would know about them by now.... simple rationale which actually sometimes is difficult to even dispute!) If we would get into any kind of " conspiracy" discussion he dismisses that with a wave of his hand.
So we talk about things that are solid and understandable... and those are the rules in our house.
Georges family of course was Catholic but I am not looking at that alone as the reason for this attitude... I am sure that we can find it all over this country and worldwide....its a mental " comfort zone" that some of us employ and there are times when I appreciate their stand. Life is far simpler when you just don't think about this stuff and if that means using less of the wondrous gift that we call a brain... then.... its every ones personal choice I guess...... so borrowing from a Buffett song I am sure that I am not the only one whose " heart is in the kitchen but whose soul is in the stars."
Linda
Ive never met a George I didnt like, and it is sure to be a high point when I meet him, Linda, as we will be talking chorizo and all the awesome portuguese food there is out there, and then we will get really hungry and make some!!!!
Good for you, George, you are a smart man!
Cheers!
Littleenki
correct me if'n i'm wrong but isn't that article like "circular logic"?
like if you were to break it down into its simplest forms, would it say something like 1+1=2 therefore, 2=1+1 ? both statements are true, but it allows no variants, such as 1-3=2 or 1+1+1-1=2 or any variation thereof? it's true but not true at the same time. i hate that lol
i call those mind traps. the more you think about them, the more a maze you create, because the thing is framed in such a way that your "work" can only be shown in one format and any other format is not going to arrive at a suitable answer but rather depict your lack of "thinking" in the first place. i seem to recall reading how we hate most what we are the most guilty of. might be something to that!
(checks self......ut oh)
in the words of roseannrosannadannah
"nevermind." ;D
or in the words of monty python..."and now for something completely different" LOL!!!
Le
Quote from: Littleenki on May 15, 2012, 07:19:00 PM
or in the words of monty python..."and now for something completely different" LOL!!!
Le
well, actually the saying goes: "We hate most in others, what we hate most in ourselves. " ever wonder why someone's personality rubs ya the wrong way? well now you know :D or at least, that's what the saying says. but isn't that a case of circular logic? here we go again.
i should probably correct my prior statement:
other formats arrive a suitable final answer but the teacher (in the case of the op article, the authority figures listing off how protestants and catholics have hippocampal discrepancies. it's like saying if your skin is black or white or orange etc, you are a dummy! these people wrote the book on how to be extremely prejudice and get accolades for it ), that teacher, WILL ONLY ACCEPT 1 answer.
now that right there is the pot calling the kettle black calling the pot black calling the kettle black, etc. it's .........it's.....
very intelligent and thoughtful! how nice!
we're all fine here now thank you. how're you?
:o
Hate to mention, Beth, but the last time I looked, 1-3 = -2... [grin]
Loved Your first response. I don't know what to make of the article, as I said, but surely it is good fodder for discussion and observation. [smile]
needed correction because typing fingers and brain disconnected..
apologies
my response should have read like this:..
gawd linda
i'm laughing real hard here
i think my hubby may be realted to george.....sigh..must be some balance of nature that
we (me and hubby) can't agree on this stuff ..he does listen so maybe some day...lol
you could be describing any ethnic group that i have come across..
any tirbe or small group who cling to this belief of ..if we needed to change it would have already happened..
it must somehow be in the ancient dna that to survive is to cling to a group and group beliefs
to be safe and protected....to me it's the hive mentality and personaliy
scares the bejesus otta my little brain..
i was raised catholic until..like carlin says..i reached the age of reason
got into tons of trouble for asking questions
so what i really take away from this is
stale = no growth
and Beth.. not pickin on you ..i admire your tenacity and accept that
your conclusion is not the same as mine
..............................not this..where's the embarrased emoticon?
gawd linda
i'm laughing real hard here
you could be describing any ethnic group that i have come across..
any tirbe or small group who cling to that ..if we needed to change it would have already happened..
i think my hubby may be realted to george.....sigh..must be some balance of nature we can't agree on this stuff ..he does listen so maybe some day...lol
but it must somehow be in the ancient dna that to survive is to cling to a group and group beliefs
to be safe and protected....to me it's the hive mentality and personaliy
scares the bejesus otta my little brain..
i was raised catholic until..like carlin says..i reached the age of reason
got into tons of trouble for asking questions
so what i really take away from this is
stale = no growth
and Beth.. not pickin on you ..i admire your tenacity and accept that
your conclusion is not the same as mine
Hate to mention, Beth, but the last time I looked, 1-3 = -2... [grin]
hehehe, luferac htiw gnixim htam dna aixelsyd, llti teg ouy ni elbuort.
Le
LOL! Fortunately aixelsyd is not something I suffer from. BUT... I CAN read backwards! (And upside down...)
Quote from: Amaterasu on May 16, 2012, 01:48:23 PM
LOL! Fortunately aixelsyd is not something I suffer from. BUT... I CAN read backwards! (And upside down...)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Le
so can i. :D
must be hippocampal damage. let's find out.
ha ha..as well as mixing thoughts as above so proved
i can write backwards quite fast..should say print....used to do it and call it mirror writting..i did it to entertain
my younger siblings when i had to babysit
have yet to figure out if it is regressive or progressive.. ;) ;D
thanks for the understanding :D
nothing yet.
i just wonder how they account for religious people who are "intelligent"?
and what the criteria are for "intelligence". if they are going by standard IQ tests, college grades, SATs or what?
i was on the dean's list and then the president's list in college. also a member of mensa. was invited to be in several organizations for geniuses. i can play 3 musical instruments, write poetry, have some limited art talent, can work with metaphor and symbol as good as the next guy. although i know i'm not a genius, i don't think i'm "stupid."
some of the greatest inventors and geniuses of the past, were religious people. i don't get this insistence that people who "believe" in something, anything, are stupid. i think they must be going with the concept that if you believe anything without question, you aren't challenging your mind. however, the idea that religious people don't ask questions is a negative stereotype that's been dreamt up to serve the cause of people who don't like religion. it's simply not true. people ask questions all the time. they don't necessarily tell everyone else they are asking questions because frankly, until they say otherwise, it's no one else's business what they think about in the privacy of their own minds.
i'm going to advance the theory now, that you'd better be careful clinging unquestioningly to their studies ,because to me, it has all the earmarks of yet another "witch burning".
p.s. most of the "witches" who were burned , were not witches in the "fairy tale" sense. in fact, they were just average religious people, who, for whatever reason, earned the negative attention of people who decided to accuse them of being "evil." in effect, there were no witches burned at salem. those were all religious people burning religious people, most likely for social, political and/or sexual reasons.
when are we gonna quit this sh i t?
Quote from: Littleenki on May 16, 2012, 01:38:23 PM
Hate to mention, Beth, but the last time I looked, 1-3 = -2... [grin]
lol! and that too!
see what i mean? there are so many variants of the same universal truth. i don't get what the big deal is but am not fond of watching a slow motion genocide in the making. pay attention to what they are saying. they are trying to characterize the PEOPLE of abrahamic faiths other than judaism, specifically, as "idiotic" but none of the others. this should raise some eyebrows considering abrahamic faiths are based on sumerian and egyptian information! that part is hidden . you have to dig it out of ancient texts, but it's all over the freakin' place.
on the other hand, religious judaism is under attack for being the cause of greed and war, because some industrial-military complex guys and bankers are, or claim to be, jewish. they are working the public like a gaggle of violin maestros!
all i can figure from this is the target isn't all jewish people but religious jewish people of a particular breed. and all christians and muslims, seem to be big flashing targets, no matter what the extent of their beliefs are. no matter how moderate, no matter how extreme. why is this, you might ask? (i know i did!) all i can figure is this is the plan for depopulation. mischaracterize and stereotype huge groups of people, make them seem like the only problem on the planet is them, and then, work the inate prejudice of the average individual, into a feeding frenzy, so by the time the thing starts to collapse, they can just point and say: kill it.
Undo.....I am going to challenge you a little bit here, You said
"it's simply not true. people ask questions all the time. they don't necessarily tell everyone else they are asking questions because frankly, until they say otherwise, it's no one else's business what they think about in the privacy of their own minds
Asking questions in your mind OF COURSE is valuable and I consider our gift from the Creator. However when you finish your statement you show others too how you can be swayed....
They don't necessarily tell everyone else..... YOU say because frankly what they are thinking is no one elses business but underneath that could it be that you would be simply avoiding persecution and ridicule for thinking thoughts that are outside of the realm of those around you. Aren't you bending then to a form of silent " control?"
I am slow to say many of the things that I believe and think for that very reason so don't think that I am excluding myself in this.... but its not really because its " nobody Else's business" Its more ( in MY case anyway) that I don't want people coming after me with torches or discounting everything else I have to say simply because they can not put their minds around some of the more..... uh.... unconventional thoughts and things that I have experienced.
And yes.... the knee jerk reaction is to simply say...." Its none of their business what I am thinking".... but your decision not to share those thoughts with others... that's being affected here by crowd peer pressure and you would be doing yourself a disservice by not seeing it. That's just my opinion. Pick it up... or leave it on the floor. Linda
Quote from: undo11 on May 16, 2012, 05:57:51 PM
so can i. :D
must be hippocampal damage. let's find out.
Ok. My sides are aching! Thanks for the belly laugh!
well let me put it this way:
if i agree with some things and disagree with other things, i get in trouble from the religious people who agree with all the things. however, if i agree with ANY OF it, i get in trouble with people who think it's all bullcrap and that only stupid people would believe any of it. it's a vice grip, meant to keep you to one extreme or the other. there's no tap dancing down the middle or tight rope walking, or anything resembling balance between common sense and spirituality for either side, unless the person is also a reasonable individual. reasonable individuals, if they aren't part of the "in crowd" (got no clue who the in crowd is), usually get severly marginalized by reality.
Quote from: undo11 on May 16, 2012, 10:51:38 PM
well let me put it this way:
if i agree with some things and disagree with other things, i get in trouble from the religious people who agree with all the things. however, if i agree with ANY OF it, i get in trouble with people who think it's all bullcrap and that only stupid people would believe any of it. it's a vice grip, meant to keep you to one extreme or the other. there's no tap dancing down the middle or tight rope walking, or anything resembling balance between common sense and spirituality for either side, unless the person is also a reasonable individual. reasonable individuals, if they aren't part of the "in crowd" (got no clue who the in crowd is), usually get severly marginalized by reality.
Well, there are those of Us who don't believe in the "god" thing, but have no issues whatsoever with any who do. If it fulfills One, awesome.
Amy's right, Undo. it's okay to believe anything you want, and God is just as possible a reality than any out there, so good for you, and keep believing in God, as something created all of this originally, and why not call them God?
Cheers!
Littleenki
Quote from: Littleenki on May 17, 2012, 01:40:36 AM
Amy's right, Undo. it's okay to believe anything you want, and God is just as possible a reality than any out there, so good for you, and keep believing in God, as something created all of this originally, and why not call them God?
Cheers!
Littleenki
Because, for some of us, God is not a "them", except as in the "Trinity" (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost), as presented and described in the Bible!
But, as you say, "it's okay to believe anything you want" - - - as long as one is satisfied with the expected outcomes in the "end", for whatever one believes. ???
Cheers!!
Rdunk:
QuoteSo, if the God of this universe has given us (we as Christians) his mind, then I guess it is his fault, if it is smaller than a normal brain!!! I can live with that just fine!
I'm with you, bro..
Linda:
QuoteThe downside is..... What ever they don't already know.... is not important. Literally. If knowledge hasn't filtered down to them regarding history or useful concepts.... they don't need to know it. And anything that is outside their realm is... highly suspect.
Very true.
I have to say, an 8 year study is a long time, and they are kind of jumping to conclusions here.
Show me the brain of someone who's been on their Playstation for 8 years, see if you can find their brain, let alone the Hippocampus :D
You know my views on religion, but the scriptures etc are also full of history, both real and imagined, and it's up to us to pick through the pieces and see what we can learn.
Personally, i find buddhism to be a great example of 'self betterment', 'be kind to others' and 'learn all you can', 'be at one with nature' etc etc.
How can this be bad for me?
OK so i'm not dressed in orange with a tambourine, and i worship no-one except maybe Tesla ;)
And he was no god or saint, just a very clever man.
The dumbing-down mind control techniques that are used in many religions, as well as TPTB, the media etc are the same. All we need to do is be aware of what their message is.
"Nothing to see here, move along" is usualy the message when people start asking questions.
"Technology is evil" is another one.
Technology is not evil, just as money isn't. It's just the way we use them that makes it a good or a terrible thing.
Always look for the message IN the message, look for the subliminal part, since being aware of it will shift your view of it, and your response to it will be different than the desired result.
In any case, believe in anything you want, so long as it does no harm to others.
I can get along with all kinds of people, i've chatted to Rabbi's, Priests, Mullahs and never had a real problem with any of them, they could not understand my lack of religion, just as i could not understand their faith in it.
Certainly there are extreme views in some of these religions, which i think is narrow minded & that is also a product of their upbringing or environment.
As usual, it's the various interpretations of these texts that cause the trouble.
Remember Brian losing a sandal in the Monty Python film?
How could you possibly interpret a book which said 'slay thine enemies' on page 94 but said 'thou shalt not kill' on page 70?? (just an example there, no particular religion in mind)
I think the universal religion (if we really have to have one) would be Asimov's laws ;)
And not just 3 laws Amy, the Zeroth law should be there as well, until such time as we are incapable of mass destruction.
4; A human being may harm another if it's to prevent them harming a lot of others.
This would not mean blowing them away, but using extreme force when necessary.
Now i know some of you will baulk at that, but if some nutcase wants to blow up a shopping mall, they should be stopped by any means possible, don't you think?
To recap on those 3 laws:
1: A human being may not harm, or through inaction, allow another human to be harmed.
2: A human being is expected to look after themselves and those around them, except where this conflicts with rule 1
3; A human being may perform any reasonable task within their ability, when asked to do so by another, providing this does not conflict with rules1&2.
(let's call that the 'work ethic law')
Addenum to rule 3 (the original 4th law): A human may do whatever they like in their free time, so long as it is constructive, and does not conflict with the first laws.
How's that for a religion? Count me in...
sign me up, Luke, and i want a cool patch to go on my uniform!
LOL!
You are a wise man, my friend, very wise indeed!
Le
Luke, I'm in Your camp all the way, except that, the law You offer assumes seft defence/defence of Others is a "willful" thing, and though there are elements of Will involved, it primarily is a reactionary thing.
Yes, Amy, it's a reaction thing.
We would automatically react to, say, a child falling in a river.
Someone woud dive in, without thinking (especially if they are a good swimmer, it would be second nature to them).
Unfortunately, we seem to have lost this natural ability to care for each other. The will may be there, but the action is restrained, or doesn't come at all.
Why should we not come to the defence of someone being attacked?
OK most of us are physically incapable, especially if the attacker is very big or aggressive. That's why we have Police, but robots woild be far better in this respect, they could move faster, and restrain a human, and they wouln't give a damn how big they are, whether they are armed or not.
They would be prepared to get destroyed in the process, something a human will not do.
Their first task would be: Protect the humans, also from each other if need be...
Of course there will be complications arising from these laws, and Asimov has even adressed them.
He even saw how these laws could be applied to humans, and extrapolated another 3000 years of human evolution from them. Fascinating stuff.
Hollywood missed all that, of course, when they filmed 'I Robot'- no surprise there 8)
Amy, Luke, you are both right! It is a deep subject, helping others.
Asimov is a favorite of mine, and when I was a boy reading his work, I didnt think about the depth of his ideas, just how cool his stories were! :)
Ive seen the non helpers sit idle when someone is drowning, and have also seen someone stop on the interstate to help a crash victim, and get killed by rubbernecking drivers driving by the scene, so either way, you just have to make the call at the time, I guess.
If you remember the last Seinfeld they get arrested for not helping, and everyone thought, what the? A pretty fitting end for the show, and if youve been to the city of New York proper,you know they will step over a dead body to get their starbucks there! :(
We need to adopt a new approach to our fellow man and woman, and allow this idea to grow and turn into a natural desire to help or comfort someone, and it cant happen soon enough.
Kill them with kindness, it doesnt hurt as much!LOL!
Littleenki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MECtoQ9YL3Q
A lot of talk here guys..... but no attempt to scientifically refute the findings of the study. Interesting. 8)
Pimander's right folks, lets get to the meat of the matter.
I for one dont have the wherewithal to do a study like this, so I will speak from my vast people experiences which I do have after twenty years of business and social interaction with many people at art shows(thousands a day sometimes!)
I cant know every facet of how a person became who they are today, but when I do, I can make a decision as to what their mental state is.
For the many folks Ive met who are openly religious, I find them kind and caring, but there is still a bit of hollowness going on in some of their heads. They seem to relate everything they do to god or the bible, and dont stop to smell the roses, so I wonder if the hippocampus affects the olfactory sneses....It can be frustrating communicating with a devoutly religious person sometimes as it's like talking to a wall, unless it pertains to the narrow view they have, very frustrating, but most are kind loving people who deserve no cynical repercussions on my part, so...heres a pass religious people
Those Ive known who have had NDE's are a different story, and it seems the reaction they have right after is key in determining their continued open minded thinking, or closing the door to new knowledge and harping on how since they made it out of that electrocution, they must be in god's hands. That kid was me when I decided to use the experience as a new start, and have grown in the hippocampal region ever since(I think!LOL).My friend Steve(not here) had a similar experience and was damaged for it for life. He actually has become a deeply religious person, and joined a ..wait for it...snake handling church in Georgia. Hes pretty much a narrow minded kook now, but he still can write like a madman! :o
Scientific, or empirical proof of this study isnt in my realm of finance so winging it through lifes experiences is my data curve, and I have to say, on the outside the determination that religion makes the brain smaller can be quite noticable. Its ok though, as when you believe something with 100 percent of your heart, the brain decides to lock that part in, and makes it shrink a bit due to lack of use.
Objective thinking grows the brain, and narrow mindedness shrinks it...cut and dry.
Cheers, and time for an excedrin!
Littleenki
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on May 21, 2012, 11:01:55 AM
Yes, Amy, it's a reaction thing.
We would automatically react to, say, a child falling in a river.
Someone woud dive in, without thinking (especially if they are a good swimmer, it would be second nature to them).
Unfortunately, we seem to have lost this natural ability to care for each other. The will may be there, but the action is restrained, or doesn't come at all.
Why should we not come to the defence of someone being attacked?
OK most of us are physically incapable, especially if the attacker is very big or aggressive. That's why we have Police, but robots woild be far better in this respect, they could move faster, and restrain a human, and they wouln't give a damn how big they are, whether they are armed or not.
They would be prepared to get destroyed in the process, something a human will not do.
Their first task would be: Protect the humans, also from each other if need be...
Of course there will be complications arising from these laws, and Asimov has even adressed them.
He even saw how these laws could be applied to humans, and extrapolated another 3000 years of human evolution from them. Fascinating stuff.
Hollywood missed all that, of course, when they filmed 'I Robot'- no surprise there 8)
One thong to keep in mind is that attacks will become almost non-existent in abundance. Why steal someOne's purse? Why murder someOne. The degree to which crime will drop will astound most. Even rape - which is a power thing, not a sexual thing - will drop as the would-be rapist finds 100% power over Self.
The three Laws will seldom be broken because there is very little in the way of motivation to do so. Maybe jealousy... But We need them for the purposes of judging those few who choose poor behavior despite the freedom and abundance in Their lives.
Quote from: Littleenki on May 21, 2012, 12:34:37 PM
Amy, Luke, you are both right! It is a deep subject, helping others.
Asimov is a favorite of mine, and when I was a boy reading his work, I didnt think about the depth of his ideas, just how cool his stories were! :)
Ive seen the non helpers sit idle when someone is drowning, and have also seen someone stop on the interstate to help a crash victim, and get killed by rubbernecking drivers driving by the scene, so either way, you just have to make the call at the time, I guess.
If you remember the last Seinfeld they get arrested for not helping, and everyone thought, what the? A pretty fitting end for the show, and if youve been to the city of New York proper,you know they will step over a dead body to get their starbucks there! :(
We need to adopt a new approach to our fellow man and woman, and allow this idea to grow and turn into a natural desire to help or comfort someone, and it cant happen soon enough.
Kill them with kindness, it doesnt hurt as much!LOL!
Littleenki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MECtoQ9YL3Q
With the removal of money from Our social system, We will not fear litigation because We tried to help or got involved. Our hearts will open, and We will act accordingly. Sure, some of the older Ones with ingrained responses won't change, but overall there will be a move towards loving One anOther. Money is the biggest barrier to Love.
Quote from: Pimander on May 21, 2012, 12:37:27 PM
A lot of talk here guys..... but no attempt to scientifically refute the findings of the study. Interesting. 8)
Ah, back on topic. [smile] I have nothing to refute the findings. [shrug]
I have nothing to refute the findings either. However, I do think that anyone who believes this "study" has any credibility, is probably a "little shy" of average, on the IQ bell curve!! ;) ;)
(No offense intended!)
Since My partners mother went down with alziehmers three years ago, I have been actively studying what is detectable of people with such.
I have a high street shop where a multitude of people come in with all sorts of conditions, and those who show the signs of dementia etc I pay special attention to, and then try to talk to them of their condition and personal circumstances, often it is their partners who can reveal most.
IMHO the brain is not the core of our information fields, just the processors.
IT IS THE SHRINKAGE OF THE FIELD that causes the FORGETTING.
All information is FIELD based, and our memory is contained in the field.
The two seperate brains have their own design operations.
The left one is mostly to do with the physical vehicles needs, the right one is the interface to our alternate selves in other dimensional geometry based fields.
The field about ourselves is highly complex with a vast amount of input points, and every so called illness is related to the lack of, or interfererance with these field inputs.
I can follow each and every seperate field lines, and have built up a personal understanding of the consequences of many of these suffering interferance or been so low powered as to cause multiple forgettings.
As above, so below.
We are small self similer entities to the planet, and the field input points are normally well marked with churches and megalithic structures.
Our fields are fed in scalar fasion from the planets, the planet is fed via the sun etc etc.
IMHO We are right now in a geometric pinch point in galatic size where a FORGETTING is occuring.
With this also comes a REMEMBERING for those who's personal fields are large enough to access different field geometries.
If multitudes of people slowly FORGET , then I can understand the need to build camps to house such, as they will not remember who or what they are.
At such times it will be required to get to the most powerfull of such points, and noahs ark going to the top of mount Sinai is possibly a tale of such a need.
Location, location , location with as many of those who can remember as possible.
You can only know that which is in Your field, as a tree can only know what is in a trees field, a horse that which is in a horses field.
Little is stored in the brains, shrinkage of the brains will be a sympton of them forgetting to be brains, not because they are shrinking thus causing the consequences.
Our understandings of ourselves are flawed, I have and am remembering lots, sorry I can't better verbalise what is presently not in the planets field memory.
hobbit
Quote from: rdunk on May 21, 2012, 06:15:14 PM
I have nothing to refute the findings either. However, I do think that anyone who believes this "study" has any credibility, is probably a "little shy" of average, on the IQ bell curve!! ;) ;)
(No offense intended!)
I hate to say this but anyone who has made a decision to dismiss a study without anything to refute it has an awful lot to learn.
What reason do you have to dismiss, "anyone who believes this "study" has any credibility, [as] probably a "little shy" of average, on the IQ bell curve!!" That's a strong statement.
First of all the study (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0017006) is published in a Peer Reviewed journal - PLoS ONE Journal Information (http://www.plosone.org/static/information.action;jsessionid=57CEF3FA32FEC2C63477931B9089ABBA). I can also reliably inform you that the authors of the paper are the real deal. As a rule neuroscientists are not exactly shy on the IQ bell curve. I'd even venture to say that scientists working in the field are right up there with the highest.
I stated that most religion does not encourage thinking. I will revise that and suggest that religion does not encourage clear thinking - especially about religion.
@Hobbit: You are on to something by associating memory with fields rather than the brain. That is one of the great mysteries in science and also in esoteric science.
Indeed, Hobbit!
A holographic wonderland floating on the Dirac Sea!
Memory fields causing tosion effects on everything in existence? Yep!
Le
Quote from: Amaterasu on May 15, 2012, 03:42:26 PM
From: http://www.businessinsider.com/born-again-brain-size-2012-5
The study by the Researchers at Duke University may have flaws that question their conclusions. The first flaw would be the limited sample space of the study, which focused only on Protestants and Catholics and leaves out all the other belief systems which can have similar effects. If the researchers' intent was only to find fault in the Christian religion, they were successful.
Another interpretation of the results is that people who find inner peace have normal sized hippocampus regions. People who experience mental turmoil have a swollen hippocampus region, and are experience detrimental pressure on their brains. A belief system such as an established religion leads to favorable conditions in the human existence.
OR...
Religion only works on those with a smaller mind :P
:P
Does Rosicrucianism promote inner peace?
OR
religion makes you comfortable
and
when you are comfortable you stop searching for real answers
therefore you don't need a larger brain
Quote from: Pimander on May 15, 2012, 03:50:27 PM
This report is either true or BS. If it riles anyone maybe they need to ask themselves why? ;)
I certainly still agree with Pimander............on the BS thought!! ;)
Quote from: SerpUkhovian on October 26, 2015, 10:29:09 AM
Does Rosicrucianism promote inner peace?
Not exactly no... they promote:
Spiritual Wisdom
Expanded Awareness
Sense of Connectedness
Mastery of Life
"The Rosicrucians are a community of Seekers who study and practice the metaphysical laws governing the universe."
Those, when Mastered do however give you inner peace :D And perhaps a little arrogance ;)
Would you mind defining 'metaphysical laws'?
It would help me in a debate I'm having with someone about the validity of metapysics..
"Why do we get what we want sometimes, and other times what we want eludes us? Why are some born rich, others poor? Why do some have great talent while others are limited in ability? What causes the wind to blow, the earth to explode, the sea to churn?
When you live among nature you can see the ebbs and flows that constitute life. The changing of the seasons, the sprouting of seeds into a plant, the rising and setting of the sun. We learn to be in rhythm with creation. Like the cycles and phases of the Earth's moon our lives flow.
Universal energy moves in us, through us, and around us. The energy we breathe is the same energy that makes up Earth and the sun and the universe. The patterns and rhythms imply an intelligence, a Creator, imaging how the energy will flow. We call those patterns Universal Laws. To understand them is to come closer to their Creator.
When we look up at the sky at night we marvel at our Universe. There are no strings or gears or generators causing the planets to move or holding stars in place. We stay on this spinning ball whether on its "top" or "bottom" and we wonder, why? Physics tells us it's gravity - the magnetic pull of the Earth herself. "What causes that pull," we ask. Metaphysics reaches to answer such questions.
Metaphysics is the study of the laws that govern our Universe and how we can live in harmony with these universal principles that govern creation. " copyright 2002 School of Metaphysics
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings so that you shall come easily by what others have labored hard for."
-SocratesQuote"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
– Yoda
Quote"You will know (the good from the bad) when you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
– Yoda