Because of comments in the New Member board re this subject, I thought it worthwhile to maybe discuss that a little more directly here. My reason for that is.............some things in our lives, and learning, are foundational for all scientific truth, and Our Sun is one of those "foundations".
Man has come a great technological distance, from the flat Earth days, while, in the great scheme of this universe, we have hardly taken anything more than a few "baby steps". But "learned men of old", and man's brilliance through today, should have left the fairy tales a long time ago. Anyone can make up stories, about any subject, and describe it as "truth", just as Arson Wells did on the radio many years ago. But, the real truth for man, is in what real science, and or forecasts tell us, on the basis of facts as we know them.
Today, regarding our star, the Sun, we know where it is in space, and we know how it moves. It rotates, and it moves with our solar system in the Milky Way Galaxy. But to our days and nights, it is pretty much standing still, while our Earth rotates on its axis once every 24 hours. Obviously, it is the Earth's rotation that gives a bit of "illusion" to man's eye and mind regarding the Sun, as the days become nights, and nights become days.
Of all of the things I know of, other than maybe the oxygen we breathe, nothing comes across as being more real, than the Sun, and its sunlight. Most of us could go into a "gazzllion" ways that cause us to know that the Sun is a real as dirt, and not an illusion!! One would be, we not only see it, but if we look at directly, only briefly, we risk "blindness", because of the strength of it rays. Another would be, that, if we let sunlight strike our skin directly for any length of time, we risk sunburn to our skin from those same sunrays of light. Another one that takes away any aspect of illusion, is that our bodies must have vitamin D to survive. Our need for vitamine D is directly satisfied through processing that our skin does as it absorbs sunlight. And direct sunlight is the only light that is symbiotic with Vitamin D production in our bodies.
Another way we know the sun is not an illusion, is that we have plants of all types over all of the Earth. Not many plants will survive in the dark, much less grow, and yield their fruit. Sunlight is just as directly important to plant life, as it is to man, and all other animal life!
And we could go on and on and on and on with this for years. With all of our technology progress in the past 50 years, we know a great deal more about the Sun than ever. Now, with various instruments on Earth, and in space, that look at and monitor the Sun, and its activity 24/7/365, we just flat out know the Sun is just what it is - a simple yet magnificent star, with a few planets that in orbit around it. One of these instruments is the NASA Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO), which is out in space, about 1,000,000 miles from earth. Of course, these instruments observe explosions on the Sun, giving us advance warning of possibly being hit with vast clouds of atomic particles and magnetic fields thrown out by the Sun on an almost daily basis.
Illusion? It is awfully difficult for me to accept that thought of having any real basis of fact. Just trying to bring a little clarity to this thoughtful question! ;D
Any and all comments are welcome!!
For those interested, I am including a couple of paragraphs from NASA relative to SOHO, and also a link to the full article which addresses several other "Sun" questions we might have.
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/explore/faq.html
Also, here is a link to the primary SOHO/Nasa website, with a great deal more news. information, and pics relative to space-science of the Sun.
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/
In addition, another very informative solar site has been noted that I will post a link to is "SECCHI" - Sun Earth Connection Coronal and heliospheric Investigation. This is a U.S. Naval Solar site, discussing equipments which also are monitoring the Sun.
http://secchi.nrl.navy.mil/
WHAT IS SOHO AND HOW CAN SOCIETY BENEFIT FROM ITS SCIENCE?
SOHO stands for Solar and Heliospheric Observatory and is a satellite that studies the Sun 24 hours a day, 365 days a year without interruptions. The spacecraft has 12 scientific instruments collecting information about the Sun ranging from activity in the Sun's corona to vibrations deep in the Sun's interior.
Because the Sun is the only star close enough to have real and dramatic effects on our life here on Earth, we certainly expect and hope that improving our observations and our understanding of this beautiful, awesome object will in the course of time bring about beneficial applications. While it's never possible to tell where the quest for knowledge will lead, at this time the area where we have the greatest expectation of useful fallout is in the "space weather" arena.
"Space Weather" may sound abstruse, but it's a concept that is growing in importance as mankind pushes further and further against the limits within which we live. When a farmer had only an acre or two to worry about, a look out the window was a good enough weather forecast for the day's plowing. When he has thousands of acres to plow, seed, and fertilize, he may find it necessary to plan on a much broader scale in order to avoid disaster; thus, we need weather satellites and global forecasting systems for tropospheric weather. Similarly, when communication and electrical grids connected only local communities, the worst threat might have been a lighting strike on a local utility pole. But today, our electrical power grids span entire continents, and our communication lines reach across hemispheres, linked by synchronous-altitude satellites. It's not too early to be thinking about the effects on these extended systems, of vast clouds of atomic particles and magnetic fields thrown out by the Sun on an almost daily basis.
rdunk,
With respect,
"We know"
No, YOU repeat.
Hobbit
Ah, Rdunk, a cool thread, as the sun has many facets, yet none known as of yet except it is always there!
Is the sun hot?
Is the heat we feel the result of field interactions, or energy differentials?
Is it really on fire?
What makes up the geometry of the sun?
These are the questions to learn the esoteric nature of Sol, and what it really means in the context of our so called solar system.
Every planet and star has the same interior geometry, and all planets and stars have those vile vortices amongst their surface.
Is the sun just a ball of burning hydrogen?
Nope, it is a duality of two wholes, melded into a double torus, living and dying at the same time.
Watch those flares as they return, return, return, to the surface of the sun.
Why do they return?
Why are they located along the two axis at 19.47 degrees?
What are sunspots really?
What is a double tetrahedron within a sphere mean to you?
Look to the star of my namesake, David, and the circle of life.
It's all there, friend!
Much to study now, going to work!
Cheers!
Littleenki
Rdunk,
If I could expand upon my rather short post previously?, I was pushed for time.
I appreciate the thread OP.
I should better explain why I said You repeat.
We are all BELIEVERS to differing degrees.
We believe that which is presented as facts by parents and so called teachers.
Indoctrinators would be a more accurate description.
You said "we know....." multiple time.
We, You, Me do not KNOW, We assume to the best information available, but it becomes stated in a factual manner.
You said that We know where it is in space.
Describe space.
You said we know how it moves,
Describe how.
You said the sun is as real as dirt,
Describe both.
You said that We know the sun is not an illusion because We have plants,
Describe how this occurs.
You said We just flat out know what the sun is,
describe it.
You said a lot more, but if You answer then above , You will be a star.
hobbit
Quote from: hobbit on May 29, 2012, 06:59:39 PM
Rdunk,
If I could expand upon my rather short post previously?, I was pushed for time.
I appreciate the thread OP.
I should better explain why I said You repeat.
We are all BELIEVERS to differing degrees.
We believe that which is presented as facts by parents and so called teachers.
Indoctrinators would be a more accurate description.
You said "we know....." multiple time.
We, You, Me do not KNOW, We assume to the best information available, but it becomes stated in a factual manner.
You said that We know where it is in space.
Describe space.
You said we know how it moves,
Describe how.
You said the sun is as real as dirt,
Describe both.
You said that We know the sun is not an illusion because We have plants,
Describe how this occurs.
You said We just flat out know what the sun is,
describe it.
You said a lot more, but if You answer then above , You will be a star.
hobbit
Hello hobbit! Glad to see your comments. I will make the response you requested, but I will do it mostly in a general way, rather than addressing your individual thoughts.
Learned men throughout the eons and ages have understood the reality of this universe, and what we call our solar system. Men of old have studied the sun, and the stars, and have preserved that for all, with drawings, writings, sculptures, glyphs, and in astronomical structures. Some have even worshiped the Sun, as their spiritual God.
No one needs "parents or teachers" to tell them about the existence of the Sun, unless they live in a dark place somewhere, away from the light of the Sun. "Most everyone" just knows about the Sun in their "knower"! We people just know all of those things I mentioned in the OP about the Sun, relative to its brightness, and its warmth. Some of the more technical elements related to the Sun, man has learned by experience, and through research. And, in the links I posted, one can "see" that research continues even today, as we learn more and more about the universe, as it is presented to us.
The Earth, Sun, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, and the Universe, as a whole "is what it is"! All are real and finite elements in the grand scale of things that we know about. And as such, we can live our lives on the basis of all knowledge about these things, without reservation.
Could all of this change someday? Absolutely yes!!! The Bible says all of this was spoken into existence by the Word of God, and he could just as easily speak it out of existence. Of course, God also says "Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away".
So, however God made that Sun of ours, it is just as real, as is the dirt of the Earth we walk on. IMO!
Besides what God has said, all of our scientists of every ilk, in every way, have confirmed what we all know to begin with, and then so much more that we didn't know. And the strive for knowledge and understanding continues.
With what we know now about the Sun, another way to describe it would be that, it not only exists, but is is "alive", in the way every "star" is alive. With the scopes and with cameras in space, the life of the Sun is being recorded 24/7/365. And all of those "living features", some of which directly affect our lives and our planet, are giving us increased ability to deal with the Sun within our own environment.
hobbit, I am not looking for a star. I am more interest in some clarity relative to some of the comments related to our Sun, in that I do not believe we live with an "illusionary Sun", but rather we live with a "star" that is alive and well! ;D ;D
Rdunk,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIEV1OanDGY
All I really wanna do, is puzzle out this wacky universe.
I have recieved by mysterious means answers, I don't know what the questions were.
You say God, I say system.
You say scientists, I say repeaters.
Does anyone KNOW how We see????, how LIFE occurs????
, how a tree grows???
I have a feeling You will BELIEVE Your God dunnit????
I prefer, and am driven to puzzle out the basic method of all of this, I do not intend to defer such responsibility to some all powerfull deity.
I will take personal responsibility as I know My heart centre is the centre of My universe.
I want to adhere to K.I.S.S.
Keep it simple stupid...as the complexity veils the basics.
Cre4ation of matter that transmutes into mass, and all from a sound.
In the beginning was sound, and how that sound travels is where creation occurs imho.
And how the stars emerge.
hobbit
Hope everyone likes the birds?????
Turn, turn, turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHvf20Y6eoM&feature=related
BUT WHAT IS TURNING????
The illusion is that the created physical is turning, but keeping to simple and basics, You need to go back to the beginnings.
Most people are familier with tree growth rings?
Where does the wood come from????
Don't please say out of the ground, there would be big holes everywhere.
Go and stand at the base of a giant redwood and THINK.
Turn,turn,turn.
Been the geek I am, and having a fabulous advantage in been able to see how trees are operating I once collected together the cut up pieces of a felled tree , it had been cut into 9 inch slices.
Each branch had a hardwood spike touching different growth rings, I could then see what I already knew in that those branchs were arranged around in fibonacci sequencing , and are actually antennae to contact the local cosmic inflows relative to where the tree is sited.
hobbit