Here's a pretty cool idea and does not require major modifications:
After five years of research, students at the University of Middle Tennessee have installed a full plug-in hybrid kit in a stock 1994 Honda Accord. The setup gives between 50 and 100 percent better gas mileage with two electric motors delivering power directly to the rear wheels, leaving the engine-powered front wheels to work with little effort. The price of all the parts comes to about $3,000 and can be applied to almost any car.
Energy for the motors comes from a lithium ion phosphate battery that sits in the trunk. The battery in the research vehicle is big and ugly so it can easily transmit data, but the production version will be about "the size of a carry-on bag," said head researcher Professor Charles Perry.
The twin three-phase DC brushless motors sit in the empty interior around the rear brakes. They power the wheels directly, rather than going through the drive shaft like other hybrids. Each motor produces 200 pound-feet of torque. The setup has four patents pending, all of which will be owned by the university to fund future research.
(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2012/08/electric-wheel.jpeg)
Now that's an intelligent use of technology.
any sense out the? :) you Just down efficiency of ICE so badly, but ICE will remain as prime engine ;)
Quote from: SarK0Y on August 17, 2012, 01:38:00 AM
any sense out the? :) you Just down efficiency of ICE so badly, but ICE will remain as prime engine ;)
Oops, sorry SarKOY, I forgot the link.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/08/hybrid-conversion/
It will add a little weight, but not more than 1 or 2 passengers, depending on how big they are so it will not overly burden the ICE. It will work best for low speed, short trips, with a range of 35 miles. I thought that the motors in the wheels was a neat idea. Now older cars can be modified to be a hybrid and this may be a more affordable alternative for some. This may evolve into a better alternative to just the ICE when used with a bigger battery, and of course, with advances in battery and motor technology, this will improve the capability of this type of application.
COSMO, those hybrids have no sense: old cars are too weighty, bad aerodynamics, batteries have long time to charge + low energy density & power is consumed by not only electromotor. actually, cities have to be adjusted to provide wireless transmission of power, so electromobiles could become prime transport 4'em.
Quote from: SarK0Y on August 17, 2012, 03:26:12 AM
COSMO, those hybrids have no sense: old cars are too weighty, bad aerodynamics, batteries have long time to charge + low energy density & power is consumed by not only electromotor. actually, cities have to be adjusted to provide wireless transmission of power, so electromobiles could become prime transport 4'em.
What kind of wireless power transmission are you suggesting? Like Tesla? I agree that would be ideal but am not sure that the oil companies would allow that to happen. Maybe in the future?
When electrical hybrid cars are discussed, it is always about the miles per gallon reduction. Why does no one ever mention whatever the "electrical costs" are, for keeping the batteries charged, so the "hybrid" can do its part? Plus battery replacement cost, as well as life-cycle maintenance costs that should be considered.
In this case, two 5 HP motors together producing 200 lbs of torque, are probably drawing significant amps??
And as designed, battery power will only last for 35 miles or so of use, until recharge is needed.
Obviously, I don't really see this as any kind of real answer to our desired mpg efficiency for our autos. Of course, a lot of things play into mpg's anyway, and this new addition even quits working at speeds above 35-40 miles per hour. Thus, all other driving miles above the cut-off speed, including highway miles, will be with a couple of hundred (prox) extra pounds , which will certainly negatively affect the standard mpg's too.
I vote for continued mpg improvements to the standard engines. My VW Jetta Wagon , with turbo diesel, averages about 40 mpg, all driving. Highway, at 70 mph, is right at 40 mpg. At 55-60 mph, mpg is 45- 47 mpg, with a/c etc..
My question is, why hybrids??
Quote from: rdunk on August 17, 2012, 04:40:29 AM
When electrical hybrid cars are discussed, it is always about the miles per gallon reduction. Why does no one ever mention whatever the "electrical costs" are, for keeping the batteries charged, so the "hybrid" can do its part? Plus battery replacement cost, as well as life-cycle maintenance costs that should be considered.
In this case, two 5 HP motors together producing 200 lbs of torque, are probably drawing significant amps??
And as designed, battery power will only last for 35 miles or so of use, until recharge is needed.
Obviously, I don't really see this as any kind of real answer to our desired mpg efficiency for our autos. Of course, a lot of things play into mpg's anyway, and this new addition even quits working at speeds above 35-40 miles per hour. Thus, all other driving miles above the cut-off speed, including highway miles, will be with a couple of hundred (prox) extra pounds , which will certainly negatively affect the standard mpg's too.
I vote for continued mpg improvements to the standard engines. My VW Jetta Wagon , with turbo diesel, averages about 40 mpg, all driving. Highway, at 70 mph, is right at 40 mpg. At 55-60 mph, mpg is 45- 47 mpg, with a/c etc..
My question is, why hybrids??
Yeah I totally understand your points. Today's batteries are probably not a good solution due to weight, initial and replacement costs along with limited range. What we really need is better energy storage, and that is a technology that I try to follow. I think the best thing that appears to be doable in the near future is ultracapacitors. There was a company Estor, that claimed a few years ago to have developed ultracapacitor technology, but I think they had problems with getting a high number of recharge cycles out of them. I think the material were breaking down after a limited number of charges. Ultracapacitors would be a great answer if the bugs can be worked out. Short recharge time, light weight and good range would be possible once they are perfected. Here is a link about Estor. I have not heard anything about them lately. Too bad. I had hoped they would be successful. I want a car that I can charge with a solar panel that can go 300 miles and rehcarge in a few minutes!
http://www.z-car.com/blog/2008/06/16/estor
EStor is a company based in Cedar Park, Texas, United States that claims to have developed a superior type of capacitor for electricity storage, which EEStor calls 'Electrical Energy Storage Units' (EESU). Its CEO and president is Richard Weir, who is also a co-inventor named on their principal technology patent.
These units use barium titanate coated with aluminum oxide and glass to achieve a level of capacitance claimed to be much higher than what is currently available in the market. The claimed energy density is 1.0 MJ/kg (existing commercial supercapacitors typically have an energy density of around 0.01 MJ/kg, while lithium ion batteries have an energy density of around 0.54–0.72 MJ/kg).[2]
Based on these claims, a five-minute charge should give the capacitor sufficient energy to drive a small car 300 miles (480 km). However, standard household wiring is not capable of delivering the power required for this, so charging times this short would probably require purpose-built high capacity dispensing stations. Overnight charging at home should still be practical, as is using a second EESU for the home which could be charged overnight using cheap, off-peak electricity to then charge the EEStor unit in the car in 5-10 minutes on demand. Also according to Ian Clifford a normal household outlet with 110 volt supply can fully charge the EESTor powered CityZENN in 4 hours for a 250 mile range and a normal household outlet with 220 volt supply can fully charge the EESTor powered CityZENN in 2 hours for a 250 mile range. CityZENN target price is around $25000 – $30000.
Quote from: rdunk on August 17, 2012, 04:40:29 AM
When electrical hybrid cars are discussed, it is always about the miles per gallon reduction. Why does no one ever mention whatever the "electrical costs" are, for keeping the batteries charged, so the "hybrid" can do its part? Plus battery replacement cost, as well as life-cycle maintenance costs that should be considered.
In this case, two 5 HP motors together producing 200 lbs of torque, are probably drawing significant amps??
And as designed, battery power will only last for 35 miles or so of use, until recharge is needed.
Obviously, I don't really see this as any kind of real answer to our desired mpg efficiency for our autos. Of course, a lot of things play into mpg's anyway, and this new addition even quits working at speeds above 35-40 miles per hour. Thus, all other driving miles above the cut-off speed, including highway miles, will be with a couple of hundred (prox) extra pounds , which will certainly negatively affect the standard mpg's too.
I vote for continued mpg improvements to the standard engines. My VW Jetta Wagon , with turbo diesel, averages about 40 mpg, all driving. Highway, at 70 mph, is right at 40 mpg. At 55-60 mph, mpg is 45- 47 mpg, with a/c etc..
My question is, why hybrids??
The academy of science recently did a study comparing gas vs electric cars from birth to death.
What energy it takes to get the metals out of the ground, to fab those metals, batteries, the lithium etc., the whole shot and then also the 'fuel' consumption whether battery or gas.
Sadly, in the end electric come out slightly worse than gas.
But that is for now. We obviously need to continue research on all fronts relating to green.
It just aint quite there yet.
For now.
;) ;D
Cosmo, I will say that thats a pretty cool setup, and a retrofit would be quite easy for the shadetree mechanic. Just making the kits and selling them could finance a massive movement towards a new form of transportation, like HHO and others.
Problem is those darned batteries and their toxic waste potential.
Indeed A51, the electric hybrid is just a band aid for the problem, and the way manufacturers are jumping on it shows us how far away from reality they are.
What we should be seeing is a rise in HHO engine production and retrofitting and fast. If we dont the middle east lunatics will have our asses in a sling. Oops, they murdered the most promising inventor though..go figure.
Also, we need to apply a 100 mile economy for a large section of the US, to save on shipping and trucking costs for our food...force people to eat what they can grow where they are, or make them move where the food is.
Help me out here Sam...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7ehccspao
So much waste is the result of needing to have everything and please everyone.
Pathetic overpopulaters and their spoiled offspring...oh whats that another birthday party for Johnny?
Get the Escalade gassed up and lets go!
Reality check? My ass!
Our world is a quagmire of greedy aholes who cant recognize what we really need to do, and thats eliminate the mindless excess, and go back to where we were when we had respect for our fellow man and environment.
Until then, no hybrid or electric car will stop the regression or save the planet from big oil.
And, as unpopular as it may be, we need to stop importing foriegn cars and goods, and shift manufacturing to our shores once again.
We will have to suffer before we move forward, but our generation is too selfish to be the one to go down in history as the one which save humanity...so we rot.
Angry uncharacteristic rant complete...back to normal...OOOOOhhhhmmmmm!
Le
Quote from: Littleenki on August 17, 2012, 05:23:12 AM
Cosmo, I will say that thats a pretty cool setup, and a retrofit would be quite easy for the shadetree mechanic. Just making the kits and selling them could finance a massive movement towards a new form of transportation, like HHO and others.
Problem is those darned batteries and their toxic waste potential.
Indeed A51, the electric hybrid is just a band aid for the problem, and the way manufacturers are jumping on it shows us how far away from reality they are.
What we should be seeing is a rise in HHO engine production and retrofitting and fast. If we dont the middle east lunatics will have our asses in a sling. Oops, they murdered the most promising inventor though..go figure.
Also, we need to apply a 100 mile economy for a large section of the US, to save on shipping and trucking costs for our food...force people to eat what they can grow where they are, or make them move where the food is.
Help me out here Sam...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7ehccspao
So much waste is the result of needing to have everything and please everyone.
Pathetic overpopulaters and their spoiled offspring...oh whats that another birthday party for Johnny?
Get the Escalade gassed up and lets go!
Reality check? My ass!
Our world is a quagmire of greedy aholes who cant recognize what we really need to do, and thats eliminate the mindless excess, and go back to where we were when we had respect for our fellow man and environment.
Until then, no hybrid or electric car will stop the regression or save the planet from big oil.
And, as unpopular as it may be, we need to stop importing foriegn cars and goods, and shift manufacturing to our shores once again.
We will have to suffer before we move forward, but our generation is too selfish to be the one to go down in history as the one which save humanity...so we rot.
Angry uncharacteristic rant complete...back to normal...OOOOOhhhhmmmmm!
Le
Yeah, not an immediate solution, but maybe a stepping stone. This transition will be evolutionary instead of revolutionary maybe?
Le, Kinison! Loved that guy. We lost a great one there! Hey....check out Estor's ultracapacitor recipe!
These units use barium titanate coated with aluminum oxide and glass to achieve a level of capacitance claimed to be much higher than what is currently available in the market. The claimed energy density is 1.0 MJ/kg (existing commercial supercapacitors typically have an energy density of around 0.01 MJ/kg, while lithium ion batteries have an energy density of around 0.54–0.72 MJ/kg).[2]
BT coated with aluminum oxide and glass...check out that energy density! The last I read it the problem was that after a number of recharge cycles, the dielectric started breaking down. Does that performance give you any ideas??? Glass....hhhmmmm....just silicon right?
Quote from: COSMO on August 17, 2012, 04:11:26 AM
What kind of wireless power transmission are you suggesting? Like Tesla? I agree that would be ideal but am not sure that the oil companies would allow that to happen. Maybe in the future?
http://news.discovery.com/autos/electric-roads-could-power-cars-110915.html