I checked with Zorgon first, and he says this is new so here we go -
I was browsing Moon photos a bit ago, (I guess that's what us old guys do after they've already seen the craft at Area 51 ;D ;) )
here -
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/browse (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/browse)
and chose the •AS16 : 787 images,
and then started browsing the images.
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/browse?camera=P&mission=16 (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/browse?camera=P&mission=16)
While looking over AS16-P-4095 -
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?image_name=AS16-P-4095 (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?image_name=AS16-P-4095)
...on the left hand side I noticed a white 1/2 circle (ellipse actually) along the top.
Below that are 2 dark areas, one slightly to the left and one to the right.
As I began to zoom in, I noticed something odd in the dark area to the right -
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/Moon/AS16-P-4095_CENTER_LRGcrop91.png)
You can view the original high resolution version online and also zoom even further here -
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?image_name=AS16-P-4095 (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?image_name=AS16-P-4095)
So then...
Glitch?
Lightning on the Moon?
Corona discharge?
Welding in space?
Swamp gas, thats it! ::)
P.S. - Can somebody do a screen cap of the high res version online, zoomed in on that anomaly?
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/A51_moon_01.png) (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/A51_moon_01.png)
Now that's what I call service! ;D
8)
Definitely looks like electrical discharge
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/A51_moon_02.png)
Negative image
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/A51_moon_03.png)
And there are other ones behind that big one, can you see them as well.
Wowsers!
If that ain't a film error, then it is an LTP. Wicked cool find regardless.
*The electric universe fellas would really dig this one.
Quote from: biggles on August 22, 2012, 06:07:28 AM
And there are other ones behind that big one, can you see them as well.
Yes I see them, with the image rotated it looks sort of like a lightning storm coming from the clouds (which are also above and covering the surface).
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/Moon/A51_moon_02rotate.png)
Probably about the same as the others! Really looks pretty strange!
Very nice find. Very nice.
The only thing that bothers me, if its such a bright white almost like a lightning strike, how come there isn't any reflection on the surrounding strata? I would think that a strike or discharge that large would have a tremendous amount of flash in the surrounding area. To me it would light up the whole area...Just wondering...excellent photo though...first time I've seen that in an old Apollo photo...
kuddos for the find.
Rock 8)
I'm stumped. Just posting to say that I don't think that is lightening.
I think it looks like a Plasma Emission, usually caused by high energy situations. Tectonic plate shifts cause this with in our earths crust, as well as it being produced by just right atmospheric conditions, not a lot of Pictures of them though that can compare, but may have something to do with atmospheric conditions and differences from earth to the moons surfaces. Very cool find.
1Worldwatcher
My first guess is light leakage on the processor.
Why is there such a straight line cut under it and also in the area many straight lines, shadows?
If it were lightning on the moon it should only be white, no color at all.
On Earth the electricl fields excite the air gas and make more colors.
Deuem
Quote from: deuem on August 22, 2012, 03:02:27 PM
My first guess is light leakage on the processor.
Why is there such a straight line cut under it and also in the area many straight lines, shadows?
Maybe.....
Quote from: deuem on August 22, 2012, 03:02:27 PM
If it were lightning on the moon it should only be white, no color at all.
On Earth the electricl fields excite the air gas and make more colors.
Deuem
What lightening would look like and whether is might exist on the moon would depend entirely on whether there is any atmosphere.
No atmosphere? Where would the lightening come from? How would an electric discharge be visible if there was no atmosphere anyway?
If there is an atmosphere then it is possible but I still don't think that an electrical storm looks like that from an orbiter.
Lots of ggod theories here, and so many image experts, especially the Dueum! :)
My personal opinion after sleeping on it and checking some other anomalous pictures from Earth, where electrical discharges are concerned..is that it is an electrical anomaly, consisting of plasma outflow from some unknown source.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Plasma-lamp_2.jpg/300px-Plasma-lamp_2.jpg)
My heart tells me that unknown source is a fracking operation on the Moon, and the resulting anomaly is what it looks like when fracking underneath the surface occurs in a vacuum.
(http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Bakken-lights-N_Dakota_2010_2000_1992_rgb.jpg)
Boy Mining can be bright sometimes!
Speaking of flashes in a vacuum...
(http://numberonekits.com/_import/_images/large-flrod2.jpg)
Same as a reaction in a neon tube which is vacuumed out and filled with gas...it lights up in so many odd ways when the voltages are off a bit.
Dueum, I think the flare from side to side is a reaction of lens flare, but the actual event is still happening down there, in the core of the anomaly.
Are they using particle beams or some sort of energy beam device to perform fracking mining techniques?
Cheers!
Le
Neither liquid neon or plasma are present in a "vacuum". Plasma is basically an ionised gas.
Quote from: Pimander on August 22, 2012, 03:52:18 PM
Neither liquid neon or plasma are present in a "vacuum". Plasma is basically an ionised gas.
Yes, expelling from under the surface.
Plasma might not be present on the Moon, but it certainly can be ejected into the Moon's proximity from underground, right?
And havent we heard the Moon has a slight atmosphere somewhere?
Funny, a neon tube is vacuumed, and there is plasma occuring inside it...
Or, theres a dome, and this took place within it. :o
Le
I don't thin that a vacuumed neon tube is really a perfect vacuum though (if there is such a thing ;) ).
I'm not hot on image analysis so I'm still not convinced it isn't a processing glitch anyway. I guess it is possible that plasma could be ejected into the supposedly very thin Lunar atmosphere but the sausage shaped part looks suspiciously like a processing glitch.
However, I am no image expert, just a sponge trying to absorb info quickly.
Quote from: Pimander on August 22, 2012, 04:11:50 PM
I don't thin that a vacuumed neon tube is really a perfect vacuum though (if there is such a thing ;) ).
I'm not hot on image analysis so I'm still not convinced it isn't a processing glitch anyway. I guess it is possible that plasma could be ejected into the supposedly very thin Lunar atmosphere but the sausage shaped part looks suspiciously like a processing glitch.
However, I am no image expert, just a sponge trying to absorb info quickly.
I think were on the same page here, Pimander, both of us are spongy! It certainly makes a real cool phot for my collection though..printed it out, and its on my shop wall already!:D
Lets all sponge together!
(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/28737663/Spongebob+Squarepants+SpongeBobSquarePantsp35.jpg)
Cheers!
Dave
Well, let's face at least the truth of what we can see with the photo. There is something very odd here, with what looks like a "planar" surface, extending off of the side of this crater, with very strange looking stick-ups all across the visible top surface. Now I suppose these stick-ups could possibly be attached to the crater wall, rather than a planar surface, but the lighting does leave that in some question.
Only two of these stick-ups seem to be exhibiting activity. The very bright one, which is front-center, and then, a second one to our far left has what seems to be slight activity.
Then to the rear of all of this, one can see two even larger similar objects, which do not seem to be active. It is hard to tell how they are attached, however, they seem to be horizontal to the the others. and much larger.
To me, this sure does have an appearance of something "very different", and certainly "un-natural, from our general understanding of the NASA Moon. (and I am no moonie either)
This just may be something beyond our current technological understanding. Why don't we just send a Rover over there to check on it??
Anyone ask NASA for a comment?? They may have addressed this long ago!! ;)
Nice Find A51 ;D
Downloading the tiff now ;)
Lunar Dome Atmos Generator for those times when you want it nice and cozy after a hard day mining :D
Plasma in a vacuum
(http://www.astronomy-for-kids-online.com/images/catseyenebula.jpg)
Quote from: Littleenki on August 22, 2012, 04:14:28 PM
Lets all sponge together!
There is no point being a sponge if its waterlogged and cannot absorb any more
::)
IMHO, regardless of the source or the content of the anomaly, a light that bright as I said before, should light up the entire area. Except for the immediate area everything is just a black void...I'm going with photo glitch...but hey what do I know..lolol.... :o
Rock 8)
Quote from: zorgon on August 22, 2012, 08:05:46 PM
There is no point being a sponge if its waterlogged and cannot absorb any more
::)
No, Z, I meant the space chicks could give us a sponge bath....:D
Le
First of all, nice find. :)
Now, about the anomaly. As Sgt.Rocknroll said, if it was on the Moon's surface it should brighten things up, at least a little, and we cannot see anything like that.
Knowing that this came from a film camera, I think it's possible that this was really an electrical discharge on the film's surface, as that happens with some frequency if the conditions are right (mostly, no moisture in the air).
I will ask my sister, she's a professional photographer (and the source of my knowledge about photography, either directly or indirectly). Meanwhile, I'm downloading the original TIFFs, but it's going to take a while. :)
ArMaP, I think we're on the same page. I'm trying to download the 6.6 gig jpg2000 file now. Only 2.2 gigs left... :o
Rock
I downloaded one of the TIFF files but I had two problems:
1 - it was the wrong area. ;D
2 - Photoshop complained about not having enough space on the scratch drives. :(
PS: If I'm not mistaken, the TIFF files are that big because they are 16 bit files, so, while we cannot see any difference from an 8 bit file on a 8 bits per pixel screen connected to a 8 bits per pixel video card, Photoshop can work with those 16 bits, so a levels adjustment gives better results than on an 8 bits file.
Well, it is bright enough to light up the "stuff" that is right there around it, in the black of this crater/shadow, because we can see the different pieces.
And I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but the "discharge" seems to be happening on the left-leg of a "Y" type stick-up, similar to some of the others we can see there. If one looks closely, the right- leg of the "Y" can be seen sticking out to the right of the discharge.
The question of this discharge is one thing. The other thing for us to consider is, what is all of this other stuff - the various stick-ups and stick-outs??
Also, does anyone think the "physical" characteristics of the discharge to be just a little interesting? Nowhere is there anything "constant" about it. Notice there a concise blob at its base. From the base, going up (I will call it up) is a thin but not straight discharge beam, amounting to about 15% of the total height of the discharge. Then, from there, the discharge beam is wider, and gets wider the higher it goes, as well as exhibiting some fuzziness/cloudiness.
One other thing - besides the vertical discharge beam, the nearside horizontal seems to display some of that charge, or do you think that is just some kind of reflection. We can see some part of it extending to the far left, onto the visible moon surface. and there is a white object where the beam terminates (or originates?). Then directly to the right of that white object, is another longer white object of some sort (shaped a little like a helicopter - lol )
Just a lot ot consider - somewhere in this may be an answer to our "energy problems" - any other photos of this specific area?
And another screen shot, for simplicity!
Looks like somebody opened the door and left the light on...
Quote from: COSMO on August 23, 2012, 01:38:51 AM
Looks like somebody opened the door and left the light on...
Darn Moon kids!:D
LE
Well I managed to download the 6.6 gig jpeg2000 file and man what a difference the Hi-Res viewer makes. I'm pretty sure its a photo glitch. The anomaly actually continues on to the upper left dark area and you can see that it's on top of the photo rather being in the photo if you know what I mean. I've taken screen shots of both areas but unfortunately I guess my cable company didn't like me taking all that ban width cause now I can't upload anything. :o So you'll have to take my word for it. I'll try tomorrow to upload the screen shots for you.
Quote from: ArMaP on August 22, 2012, 10:19:17 PM
Now, about the anomaly. As Sgt.Rocknroll said, if it was on the Moon's surface it should brighten things up, at least a little, and we cannot see anything like that.
Oh great. I thought Armap would pop up and say oh yeah that's this caused by that, and have several examples ready. :-\
So much for that, looks like everyone is stumped.
Ok sure a camera glitch that performs Kirlian phtography.
I'm liking Le's idea of frakking, which would also help explain the TLP or 'galloping volcanoes' that have been seen and reported for many decades now by observers.
If it's a camera malfunction, I would really like to see some examples of this type.
As to Sgt. Rocks point about lighting up the area (which may end up being correct), I would point to how the 'cloud' (or double exposure) can be seen on top of the surface and a few craters, indicating height of an unknown value. Perhaps the height is too far up to light up the ground.
I am as stumped as everyone else and open to all suggestions.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 23, 2012, 02:52:17 AM
Well I managed to download the 6.6 gig jpeg2000 file and man what a difference the Hi-Res viewer makes. I'm pretty sure its a photo glitch. The anomaly actually continues on to the upper left dark area and you can see that it's on top of the photo rather being in the photo if you know what I mean. I've taken screen shots of both areas but unfortunately I guess my cable company didn't like me taking all that ban width cause now I can't upload anything. :o So you'll have to take my word for it. I'll try tomorrow to upload the screen shots for you.
Great! I look forward to it. ;D
Hey there, 6.6 image is big! DO they have them for all the other Apollo images - like the ones in Alan Strums ULO book?
Some very good explanations thus far, as LE has pointed out, but still think it is a "Plasma burst/release/emission" though.
I f John was right about the moon having a semi compatible atmosphere, then that would explain the the double exposure/ghost/Ionization affect around the object of discussion.
Another thing too consider is that we are experiencing an extreme amount of Solar activity via CME's/Solar max/EM fluxes which in all possibilities would and could cause difference's with in the CMB's are ready present in the Universe.
The "Photo Glitch" explanation is a possibility, but I have not ran across anything like it in anything I have looked at so far, but then as most of us here have already admitted "Not really a photographer or Video Guru either".
"Fracking" really got my attention, because this too would be a circumstance of intelligent involvement for this happening. If LE is right, this means Johns theories of the mining on the Moon are more feasible than ever. it would be the "Court of Law" kind of evidence that would put a cab-bash on the whole thing being nothing more than a theory. I am anxiously awaiting for Sgt.'s and A51's contacts for validation, but for now "WOW!" is all I can say.
If this is a Plasma discharge, and the Ionization is what we are seeing, and the Fracking that would cause such an event, and it would also support that the Lunar surface 'DOES' support an atmosphere of sorts, it would put too rest all the Nay-Sayer's of Johns Proposed theories of the Lunar surface being mined,. "By who?" Thats another question all in it's own, but would have to side with "Not Us" as an explanation.
Have too wait for the experts here to draw a definitive conclusion on this one, one heck of a catch though for sure!
1Worldwatcher
I would still hold out on this one, that much light should brighten up the place. If this is light from a Moon source I would expect to see more of a light bloom around the flash and even see into the crater. The only other thing, would be some kind of smoke or cloud that is being lit up by the Sun. That would only self iluminate. So, I would bet on it being a glitch followed by a smoke plume. I would not bet on anything electrical.
\
If that crater was lit up, yes!
Deuem
While looking closely at this anomaly photo, I decided to take a look at the next /adjacent Apollo photo in this series - AS16-P-4097.
While looking at that photo, I saw another anomaly that I will add to this thread. While it is a part of the "black and white", looking closely a vertical structure can be seen. It may be cylindrical, and it does have a spherical shape on its top. It does seem to be standing between two vertical opposing vertical walls, with maybe a wall also on the nearside.
An interesting anomaly, and there may be others right here, in this area.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS16-P-4097
Quote from: zorgon on August 22, 2012, 07:58:43 PM
Plasma in a vacuum
It isn't a vacuum if there is plasma there. :P
As A51 mentioned a ways back, the "lighting" of the crater walls by the discharge light, would be relative to its distance from the walls.
Does anyone here know how far away this light is, from the crater wall - This photo was taken at an altitude of about 71 miles, and even at that altitude, we can still see the light of the discharge in the photo. So, this thing could be quite large, from 100's of feet to several miles tall.
I suppose this light might be 1,000 feet from the wall, or it might be 5 miles, or maybe 10 miles from the crater wall.
It really is a little difficult to reason with how this lights up the walls, if we don't know its size and proximity to the surface areas.
It does seem to provide significant light to its immediate area.
If this is a camera glitch I would think it is a buildup and release of static electricity as Armap proposed, as opposed to a malfunction that released voltage.
If we could get a picture or diagram of the construction of this camera it would be a big help.
A large central zap of static surrounded by smaller ones is one possible explanation for such a double exposure being created I suppose.
But clearly part of the anomaly is overlaid on top of the surface image.
The straight line Deuem mentioned is indeed suspicious to a processor, but not enough to be a deal breaker.
I am still open to any explanation either way.
Certainly is an odd one not seen before.
Yea, A51, that straight line and no surface flash is not going to make this photo get into the Hall of records.
On Earth a lightning flash lights up everything at night like daylight for miles on end. With zero or a little atmosphere it should flash for tens of miles. We should see the crater lit up with a real nice pattern.
I have not run this photo with Deuem yet because it is Black and White but I could if you want. If it is a camera film problem it will have zero lines or rings. The rings will stop at the light. See if ArMaP wants to run the PMV. This will stop or continue this issue. Either his PMV or Deuem would show a light pattern well outside the white area. If it is a film failure there is no extra rings all over the film.
Deuem
May I offer another explanation? Could this be a film blemish?
I offer the following link which indicates that blemishes do happen during film processing.
http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/index.html
These are apollo pictures but ASU says that film blemishes do happen. Could be static electricity that made an impression on the film. Not throwing water on anyones suggestions but offering one of my own.
Hi spacemaverick! Well, I will let the "experts" decide on what the experts think about what this is. :)
But, if we count, there are 15 or 16 individual pieces in this photo, plus the very so obvious light, which steals the "show'. While many of these pieces are similar, each one is absolutely different. And the two very large pieces we can see to the rear are entirely different from the others, in shape and form.
While photo glitches probably do occur, the detail in this photo gets pretty complicated, if we try to make this whole thing "glitch related", don't you think? ;)
This camera took a lot of pics on this same day, and others. Maybe one of us can find another similar occurrence, to help validate it, one way or the other. This one is a proverbial "needle in a haystack" anyway, so , probably won't be easy to find another, even if there is one!!
Right on rdunk! I bet NASA is looking feverishly for another one like it right now!
Le
Well, another thing on this light discharge anomaly. No one else speaks to this, but I did mention it in the other anomaly I posted just above. and that is "artificial shadowing"
When I looked at this pic again, and thinking about others comments about "no lighted crater walls"., I started looking at the shadowing here. And............,, I noticed that it too looks as if it has been applied. Again, I am no expert, nor even shadow novice, but, in a place like this, me thinks there should be no shadows with long straight-line edges, Whatever on the moon could make a long precise straight-line shadow??
Well, in this photo piece with the discharge, the shadow is very black, and notice that the long right-hand edge of it is perfectly straight. Impossible for that to happen ------ probably not, but, where is the hill or crater, right here, that will make that kind of shadow??
The shadow looks applied, at least in part, to me!! And if that is the case, then no wonder that the crater walls don't seem to be lighted by the flaring discharge.
But then, that, OF COURSE, would raise another question or related statement - - if NASA were trying to hide stuff, then why would they not get the flare covered up?? And that would be easy to answer - - the dumb butts just missed it!! :))
Just more thoughts!
Here is A51's link to the pic, if anyone wants to look at this shadow edge. You do have to magnify it several times to get it to where you can actually view the shadow straight edge (after you find the flare in the pic - lol).
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?image_name=AS16-P-4095
Quote from: spacemaverick on August 23, 2012, 07:49:33 PM
May I offer another explanation? Could this be a film blemish?
I offer the following link which indicates that blemishes do happen during film processing.
http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/index.html
These are apollo pictures but ASU says that film blemishes do happen. Could be static electricity that made an impression on the film. Not throwing water on anyones suggestions but offering one of my own.
Will wait for Sgt. Rock and see what he has regarding the anomaly.
Here's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tiggra15/3174159482/) a link to a photo with an electric discharge that happened inside a camera while rewinding the film.
I asked my sister but she never saw it on photos, she only saw it happening while unwinding the roll while in the dark room.
Ok, guys it seems it was Photobucket that was having the problem, so I switched to Imageshak.
The following screenshots were taken from a 2000jpeg 6.6 gig file.
The first image shows the original anomaly.
(http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/203/newanomaly.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/857/newanomaly.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
The second image shows both anomalies. if you draw a line from the original up and to the left, you'll see the other one. Its on a straight line and I'm assuming they are the same.
(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/25/newanomaly2.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/newanomaly2.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
The third image is a close up of the second anomaly so you can see it's the same type.
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/6741/newanomaly1.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/newanomaly1.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
So what's the verdict?
Peace 8)
Rock
Did someone mention the "2nd discharge anomaly, or, did you just find it? I don't remember it being mentioned before now.
So, it is in the same pic - straight line and higher??
Yes, I did go look on the original pic, and did find what what you termed as a 2nd piece like this.
Could be, but, doesn't look much like the op item.
If you look real close in the second image you will find a third and it does not show up real clear.
When I go to a different site for the Apollo pics, the 2nd one is not visible anywhere in the photo. The 1st is there, but not the 2 nd.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS16-P-4095
I may be way off base but my opinion is that it is Electrostatic discharge on the film from the film process. I would say "film process blemish." I am by no means an expert but ran across moon images before, where I thought I was seeing some tunnels and the link I went to on the ASU site for the images showed me where I was viewing process blemishes. I await the experts opinion.
The difference in the resolution between the other formats and the 2000jpeg file is incredible. I didn't see the second anomaly until I viewed it with the HI-Res viewer. As I said before, I believe this a 'glitch' in the film or camera. Regardless of the light source or the content of the anomaly, there would be more lighting of the surrounding area, and there just isn't...
I'm considering downloading more 2000jpeg files but it takes so long and I don't want to piss of my cable company...lolol..
Peace 8)
Rock
One thing I noticed is that near the brightest part of the discharge we can see some darker lines, parallel to the line from the discharge is coming, and it looks to me like something was being illuminated by the light of the discharge, something like a nearby piece of the camera.
And yes, I noticed the smaller discharge on the viewer, a well calibrated monitor is an important piece of equipment when analysing images. :)
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 24, 2012, 12:19:31 AM
The difference in the resolution between the other formats and the 2000jpeg file is incredible.
What's the resolution of that file? I downloaded one of the TIFF files (1/8 or the full image), and the resolution is an impressive 39793 x 25448.
Well, now that's settled, what are your thoughts on the anomaly I posted in reply #36 in this thread?? Thus far no one has mentioned it!
Quote from: rdunk on August 24, 2012, 02:36:38 AM
Well, now that's settled, what are your thoughts on the anomaly I posted in reply #36 in this thread?? Thus far no one has mentioned it!
Well there is another one I spotted down and diagonally to the right of the first one I posted about 7 inches away at full zoom), and I mentioned it to Zorgon, but held off mentioning it here at least until everyone had a chance to chime in and possibly explain it.
It is similar in nature but much less spectacular.
Quote from: spacemaverick on August 23, 2012, 07:49:33 PM
May I offer another explanation? Could this be a film blemish?
I offer the following link which indicates that blemishes do happen during film processing.
http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/index.html
These are apollo pictures but ASU says that film blemishes do happen. Could be static electricity that made an impression on the film. Not throwing water on anyones suggestions but offering one of my own.
ok now that I have had a moment to catch up on the thread and follow the various links, I'm pretty confident spacemaverick found the answer(s) for us.
From his link, first off the schematic of the camera -
(http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/metric_camera.jpg)
... and then some examples of the 'blemishes' (Electrostatic discharge) that occured -
(http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/static.png)
I would have to say case closed.
Great work spacemaverick!! 8)
PRC rocks.
Quote from: rdunk on August 24, 2012, 02:36:38 AM
Well, now that's settled, what are your thoughts on the anomaly I posted in reply #36 in this thread?? Thus far no one has mentioned it!
Looks like the anomaly in #36 is right up Sarge's alley rdunk, certainly not mine.
We have an expert for everything here. 8)
PRC rocks.
Thanks A51!! I still want to believe that there are things up there that would tell us undeniably that there are beings there. The evidence is there, I just need to believe it. Guess that will take time. Glad you found that camera picture and the blemish artifacts. That other one in 36 has me baffled. Looks like a tower to me.
I also want to thank everyone who participated in this thread, the analytical and creative ideas put forth were all top- notch!
AND...
All views were discussed and bandied about in a polite and friendly manner!
How awesome is that?!! ;D
I see this trend in many and most of the threads around here.
Thank you 8)
Quote from: A51Watcher on August 24, 2012, 04:11:08 AM
ok now that I have had a moment to catch up on the thread and follow the various links, I'm pretty confident spacemaverick found the answer(s) for us.
From his link, first off the schematic of the camera -
(http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/metric_camera.jpg)
... and then some examples of the 'blemishes' (Electrostatic discharge) that occured -
(http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/static.png)
I would have to say case closed.
Great work spacemaverick!! 8)
PRC rocks.
A51 and others, I have seen this diagram of the camera many times now and have studied it also. Please note: there is a second camera, A Stelar camera that is shooting 35mm film 90 degrees to one side. My question is, I have never once found any of these photos and a cross link between them and the moon surface photos. They must use that film for pin pointing their position in space. Have you ever seen even one of them? even better, a chart for the moon to star photos. And they say they could not see stars yet they have a star camera right there. Hum?
Deuem
Quote from: spacemaverick on August 23, 2012, 07:49:33 PM
These are apollo pictures but ASU says that film blemishes do happen. Could be static electricity that made an impression on the film. Not throwing water on anyones suggestions but offering one of my own.
This is pretty much the type of thing meant when I suggested a processing "glitch".
Quote from: spacemaverick on August 24, 2012, 04:22:36 AM
Thanks A51!! I still want to believe that there are things up there that would tell us undeniably that there are beings there. The evidence is there, I just need to believe it. Guess that will take time.
To be fair, even if that had been a "plasma ejection" on the Moon, would that have proven to you that there are beings up there? ???
Proof of the presence of intelligently controlled craft with technology way beyond that possessed by Earth Humans would surely be stronger evidence. Well, that is my ten cents worth anyway. ;)
Quote from: Pimander on August 24, 2012, 05:14:12 PM
To be fair, even if that had been a "plasma ejection" on the Moon, would that have proven to you that there are beings up there? ???
Proof of the presence of intelligently controlled craft with technology way beyond that possessed by Earth Humans would surely be stronger evidence. Well, that is my ten cents worth anyway. ;)
Like I said, I want to believe but a lot of my life teachings have been otherwise. I have to overcome these for me to really believe. It is not my time to realize that there may be other races, even on the moon. It seems the evidence is there, I, (in my own mind) need more.
Yes, you did mention there was a process glitch. That honestly helped me key in on process glitches of a different type on the ASU site and offer up what I did. Your process glitch was correct. Your comment spurred my mind into remembering coming across this sometime before.
Quote from: Pimander on August 22, 2012, 04:11:50 PM
I don't thin that a vacuumed neon tube is really a perfect vacuum though (if there is such a thing ;) ).
I'm not hot on image analysis so I'm still not convinced it isn't a processing glitch anyway. I guess it is possible that plasma could be ejected into the supposedly very thin Lunar atmosphere but the sausage shaped part looks suspiciously like a processing glitch.
However, I am no image expert, just a sponge trying to absorb info quickly.
To clarify: this is the entry that led me to look for the problem on the ASU site. Thanks Pimander.
Quote from: A51Watcher on August 24, 2012, 04:11:08 AM
From his link, first off the schematic of the camera -
(http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/ABOUT_SCANS/metric_camera.jpg)
That's a different camera, the one that took these photos was this one.
(http://history.nasa.gov/afj/simbaycam/pan6.jpg)
We can see that the film changed direction twice, thanks to some rollers that made a 45º angle to the direction of the film, the same angle of the "anomaly". :)
Quote from: ArMaP on August 24, 2012, 11:44:07 PM
We can see that the film changed direction twice, thanks to some rollers that made a 45º angle to the direction of the film, the same angle of the "anomaly". :)
You have your answer there folks. :)
Although we seemed to have put this to bed, what about the stelar camera on the first camera, Anyone ever find photos from that one? Deuem
I have to agree with Deuem on this one. "Is there a First camera vantage point picture too compare notes?" Too many things such as this go left untouched as being proven or debunked, and this is where the trouble lies for hard core reseaching and proof beyound a shadow of a doubt.
I do understand that there are some artifacts with in malfunctioned photo's , but with the Moon theories being there for research and investigation, the Conspiracy theories of there being a civilization on the Lunar surface, it deserves the utmost investigatory prowess too be validated as what is being explained.
So much has been debunked by such methods, and this may be the damaging factor in the truth of the matter at hand. IMPO ;)
1Worldwatcher
Quote from: deuem on August 26, 2012, 08:08:34 AM
Although we seemed to have put this to bed, what about the stelar camera on the first camera, Anyone ever find photos from that one? Deuem
I have never seen a photo from that camera (as far as I know), but that's not surprising, as the camera was used to "record star field at a fixed point in space relative to mapping camera axis so that orientation of the latter can be accurately determined for each mapping camera frame".
But they have a folder for it's images on the Apollo Image Archive (http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/data/), so I guess we have to wait. :)