http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0zm1Blykn8
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/08/22/award-winning-manga-to-be-freely-used-by-anyone-for-anything-anytime-author-will-not-request-royalties/
This is a huge victory for that which is wrongfully called software piracy, and is a major milestone in the progress towards actualisation of the Abundance Paradigm. We can hope that many other media producers will eventually follow the examples of pioneers such as this man; as the completely free and unrestricted circulation of information, is something that is a necessity, if we wish to achieve an open source based, and truly transparent and accountable society.
Today this, and tomorrow the Pleiadian Equal Value System (http://www.highvibrations.org/archive5/equalval.htm), and Amaterasu's Witness device, as well as her robotically aided logistics system, based on open source code. We are moving closer.
Indeed. There's a book out entitled "Free" and it discusses the expectation of free stuff... Most often it is in conjunction with a sales pitch or a sale...but free is gaining ground in its own right.
(Apologies for taking so long to respond. STILL catching up! LOL!)
free sounds fantastic, and sometimes we could all use free, but the current call for free is to keep the common man from realizing any personal success by virtue of his labor and product., so that only a handful of people at the top have abundance and everyone else has to beg for handouts . sorry to say it but the abundance paradigm will not work.
You keep saying that, Beth, but so far I haven't seen WHY You think it won't.
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 24, 2012, 01:06:23 AM
You keep saying that, Beth, but so far I haven't seen WHY You think it won't.
well i was out looking for software to build the mmorpg. there's lots of free software out there to make games with, for example, hero engine has a very advanced mmorpg game engine platform and an entire business package and server package attached. they make money when the game does.
however, as i mentioned in my ebooks, there's a glass ceiling that i have yet to scale, due to any number of reasons, starting with other christians refusing to let me thru (i apparently haven't "paid my dues" yet, even though jesus said there is nothing i could literally offer that would prove i was any more or less worthy than the next guy), other non christians refuse to let me thru, and etc. since both sides don't seem to think i'm worthy of being allowed to succeed at any endeavors, i can only surmise that free won't mean jack squat to people who want to succeed unless they also have "paid their dues" and those dues could be a literally endless list that you will never be able to achieve. in effect, the deck is stacked already. so the abundance paradigm will not work.
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 01:04:13 AM
free sounds fantastic, and sometimes we could all use free, but the current call for free is to keep the common man from realizing any personal success by virtue of his labor and product., so that only a handful of people at the top have abundance and everyone else has to beg for handouts . sorry to say it but the abundance paradigm will not work.
It's very simple, Beth.
As far as at least software is concerned, everyone simply makes what they have freely available. That is, if you've produced or downloaded something, you make it available, and everyone else makes available what they have likewise. In such a scenario, then, you wouldn't have someone like Prince or Metallica complaining about people pirating their music; because they would know that, while their own material was freely available, they could also take whatever they wanted for their own use or expression from the network themselves as well.
I have been trading software for many years; most of my life, in fact, so this is a topic and a concept which is very dear to my own heart.
For physical resources such as food etc, admittedly it does become a little more complex than in the case of pure information; but we're already at a point where it could be done for at least staple items, if the will was there. Yes, we have things like rare earth metals and such which are not replicable yet, and so for them I could see a provisional economy still being necessary; but we already know how to both turn mercury into gold via a nuclear reactor, as well as how to synthesise diamonds. So I'm confident that in time, the knowledge would come as to how we could make literally any material completely renewable.
http://www.highvibrations.org/archive5/equalval.htm
If there is one thing I would really encourage you to do, it is to start to be
willing to look at this idea. The one great stranglehold which the corporations have right now, is that they have created a scenario where people are not willing to even look at something like the EVS, because it is assumed to be either impractical or immoral.
What we are proposing is
not immoral, and this can be demonstrated by observing that everyone can benefit from it. I've downloaded books via torrents before, and then sent the authors money afterwards; I also did it just the other night with a new game I've got. When I go back to Nimbin, I will probably give a copy of said game to someone I know who is very poor economically, and would likely not be able to afford it. Nimbin is a place where these types of values are held much more naturally and spontaneously by the people there.
So I'm not someone who just wants to be a parasite; and this also isn't just some theoretical abstraction for me. I've lived it; I do so on a near daily basis, as much as I can.
The Missionary Church of Kopimism (http://kopimistsamfundet.se/english/).
http://questioncopyright.org/
http://www.isohunt.com/ - A search engine for bit torrent.
Quotehowever, as i mentioned in my ebooks, there's a glass ceiling that i have yet to scale, due to any number of reasons, starting with other christians refusing to let me thru (i apparently haven't "paid my dues" yet, even though jesus said there is nothing i could literally offer that would prove i was any more or less worthy than the next guy), other non christians refuse to let me thru, and etc.
If Christians won't support you, you need to find someone who will.
I am not advocating that you should cease to love Jesus Christ at all, Beth; but Jesus is not the church. The church is made up of human beings; often small-minded, petty, vindictive, mean-spirited human beings, who are that way because they are deeply unhappy.
I used to go to church myself, and at times it was beneficial, but a lot of the time it also wasn't. If it is serving you, then keep it; but if it is not, and if you can, try and be willing to let the church go.
doh, i don't think you're a parasite nor do i think the abundance paradigm is parasitical. one of the deals in the paradigm is that you get to do whatever is you want to do and so does everyone else. ain't no way in hades that people who already have all the advantages will share the spotlight with people who aren't on their list of who can pass go and collect 200 dollars. even if the dollars weren't there, there would still be competition. and a pecking order. and prejudice. and unpaid dues that never seem to be satisfied.
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 01:14:05 AM
well i was out looking for software to build the mmorpg. there's lots of free software out there to make games with, for example, hero engine has a very advanced mmorpg game engine platform and an entire business package and server package attached. they make money when the game does.
however, as i mentioned in my ebooks, there's a glass ceiling that i have yet to scale, due to any number of reasons, starting with other christians refusing to let me thru (i apparently haven't "paid my dues" yet, even though jesus said there is nothing i could literally offer that would prove i was any more or less worthy than the next guy), other non christians refuse to let me thru, and etc. since both sides don't seem to think i'm worthy of being allowed to succeed at any endeavors, i can only surmise that free won't mean jack squat to people who want to succeed unless they also have "paid their dues" and those dues could be a literally endless list that you will never be able to achieve. in effect, the deck is stacked already. so the abundance paradigm will not work.
What is it that They're not letting You accomplish...? Give Me a specific here.
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 01:43:06 AM
doh, i don't think you're a parasite nor do i think the abundance paradigm is parasitical. one of the deals in the paradigm is that you get to do whatever is you want to do and so does everyone else. ain't no way in hades that people who already have all the advantages will share the spotlight with people who aren't on their list of who can pass go and collect 200 dollars. even if the dollars weren't there, there would still be competition. and a pecking order. and prejudice. and unpaid dues that never seem to be satisfied.
You will only earn "spotlight" if People like what You produce. Presently, the "spotlight" is on those who can pay for it. If You could create a game and have it produced and distributed...People will play it and comment on the web as to Their experience and if lots of People like Your game - "spotlight" for You.
If Your game sucks...no spotlight. Simple. No One will have the power to control the spotlight - except by creating something better.
Quote from: petrus4 on September 24, 2012, 01:35:54 AMThe one great stranglehold which the corporations have right now, is that they have created a scenario where people are not willing to even look at something like the EVS, because it is assumed to be either impractical or immoral.
One of the main stumbling blocks as I see it is those that are promoting this concept do not have an INTERIM solution.
Over 40% of Americans today are living from paycheck to paycheck just to keep alive and a roof over there head. Without an interim solution they don't have the luxury of considering this concept
There is no way a change like this can happen overnight. The infrastructure alone will take decades to put in place...
How do these people eat and live in the meantime?
I hear talk of the 'tipping point' a lot with no clear explanation of what exactly that means. Is it the thought process that once enough people are 'aware' of the possibility, it will magically manifest out of thin air?
This change will take time... and a LOT of people will need to provide the infrastructure for free...
How do those people live and eat in the meantime?
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 01:43:06 AM
doh, i don't think you're a parasite nor do i think the abundance paradigm is parasitical. one of the deals in the paradigm is that you get to do whatever is you want to do and so does everyone else. ain't no way in hades that people who already have all the advantages will share the spotlight with people who aren't on their list of who can pass go and collect 200 dollars. even if the dollars weren't there, there would still be competition. and a pecking order. and prejudice. and unpaid dues that never seem to be satisfied.
One of the things that Sasha talks about with the EVS, is that they way we make it work, is by trying not to worry about whether or not everyone else is going to accept it, but simply finding a group of people, on an individual basis ourselves who will. Sure; the David Rockefellers and other rich psychopaths of the world will still be there. The Lizard Hearted are probably going to hang around for a while yet.
However, if we can find a group of people of like mind, with whom we can be immediately mutually supporting, then the existence of the cabal honestly ceases to matter. They are doing what they want to do, and we are doing the same.
I know I'm already pushing too hard here, though; and I'm sorry. I have to be willing to honour other people's choices when they don't coincide with mine. I also have to remember to refrain from feeling like a victim when someone else disagrees with me; or feeling that I have to convert literally everyone else on the planet to my way of thinking, in order to get what I want or need. I do not need to do that.
All I will say, in closing, is that I know that TAP/EVS are only impossible, because many people currently do not
want them to be. It is wanting them to be possible, that is the primary obstacle. The cabal know that, and that is why they have tried to create a scenario where individuals do not
want to free themselves.
z, add free energy. Use the govt to spend money retrofitting and building the infrastructure. As the cost of energy dissipates, things become cheaper and cheaper. No One has to do anything differently on a daily basis in Their lives. Keep doing what We have been doing. As jobs are removed by robots (and only those that the Person doing them doesn't WANT to do them will be filled in this way), use the govt to support Them - "welfare," if You will, and eventually there will be no cost for anything.
100% of the cost of EVERYTHING is energy. The gold nugget deep in the mountain has no value until the miner expends meaningful energy to get it. And though We may see the value as being the gold nugget...what GAVE it any value was the meaningful energy someOne expended. the amount of value may be arbitrarily assigned, but it was the energy that allowed a value at all to be assigned.
Quote from: zorgon on September 24, 2012, 01:56:17 AM
One of the main stumbling blocks as I see it is those that are promoting this concept do not have an INTERIM solution.
There are interim solutions, Zorgon. We're already seeing community gardens developing all over America and other countries; I've read about possible vertical farm initiatives, as well. These are scenarios in which people can contribute to the process of growing food for everyone in a given community, including themselves, and can thus be employed in that process.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9CCxdkOng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI7nRoT142Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5_LPYFyaFE
Another part of the problem, (a big part) is the American government beginning to use its' police to literally defend itself and corporate interests, as far as such things as USDA armed raids on organic dairy farms and such are concerned. The government are fighting tooth and nail, and are going to continue to fight; because they know that when we succeed, it's going to mean the end of them as an institution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5EmxoPvB4
What they
don't understand, however, is that we don't want to see them as the enemy. We'd much prefer it if they'd give up fighting and come and join us; because what they don't understand is that they are actually fighting against their own best interests. We want a society that is better for every single human being; and that includes, ironically, the people who are currently willing to kill us in order to maintain their own falsely perceived power.
QuoteIf Christians won't support you, you need to find someone who will.
I am not advocating that you should cease to love Jesus Christ at all, Beth; but Jesus is not the church. The church is made up of human beings; often small-minded, petty, vindictive, mean-spirited human beings, who are that way because they are deeply unhappy.
I used to go to church myself, and at times it was beneficial, but a lot of the time it also wasn't. If it is serving you, then keep it; but if it is not, and if you can, try and be willing to let the church go.
you seemed to have missed the part where i said non-christians do the same thing, particularly after they find out i'm a christian. lol
i seem to recall you posting in another thread here that christians are this that and the other thing. now just to give you some idea how that translates into problems for me, is that those thoughts are in your subconscious mind so when you and i have interactions, every time i do something even remotely irritating, i mean it could be something extremely minute, it will seem bigger than normal to you because you already don't appreciate my world view, even if my world view is not typical and perhaps less offensive to you (?). the fact i resemble something in anyway, that you are already predisposed to despising, is going to interfer with your ability to just treat me like a person and a friend. i know, i've seen it happen over and over again.
i don't go to a church btw.
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 24, 2012, 02:12:41 AM
No One has to do anything differently on a daily basis in Their lives. Keep doing what We have been doing. As jobs are removed by robots (and only those that the Person doing them doesn't WANT to do them will be filled in this way), use the govt to support Them - "welfare," if You will, and eventually there will be no cost for anything.
If no one has to do anything differently then nothing will change. This very thread is asking authors to do just that CHANGE what they are doing and give their work away for free.
Jobs are already being replaced by robots and those effected are NOT having a choice.
Welfare? Yeah I see how that works just around the corner... all the illegals getting free medical care and all those Cadilacs and HumVees collecting their welfare checks and food stamps, while an HONEST person cannot collect assistance as was meant to be
Free energy won't happen until some inventor actually gets a working device into production. If free energy is your ticket to Nirvana, it will be a very long wait
China probably has the best chance at getting close to that... I would move but then they are prejudiced against "Whitey"
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 02:20:31 AM
particularly after they find out i'm a christian. lol
Well stop telling them :P
Quote from: petrus4 on September 24, 2012, 02:19:39 AM
There are interim solutions, Zorgon. We're already seeing community gardens developing all over America and other countries; I've read about possible vertical farm initiatives, as well. These are scenarios in which people can contribute to the process of growing food for everyone in a given community, including themselves, and can thus be employed in that process.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9CCxdkOng
i think the aquaponics are a great idea. but um, yeah i can see big farming corps giving up all their years of dedication and hard work, and their family businesses, can't you?
Quote from: zorgon on September 24, 2012, 02:34:10 AM
Well stop telling them :P
lol! too logical. lol if i can't express who i am, i'm not free. this either has to be resolved by agreeing to disagree and still be friends, or admitting that you feel you should be able to do the thinking for me. and since i'm still perfectly capable of thinking for myself, that's not an option. :D
Quote from: petrus4 on August 27, 2012, 09:23:06 PM
This is a huge victory for that which is wrongfully called software piracy, and is a major milestone in the progress towards actualisation of the Abundance Paradigm. We can hope that many other media producers will eventually follow the examples of pioneers such as this man; as the completely free and unrestricted circulation of information, is something that is a necessity, if we wish to achieve an open source based, and truly transparent and accountable society.
Okay so I looked at the site you linked and you are jumping the gun here...
Seems you are quick to justify being a PIRATE :P
Sato is saying that he will not relinquish his copyright, but that he will not enforce it for an indefinite time.What he is saying that a copyright should have a finite limit of time just like a patent. This allows the creator to make his/her money THEN relinquish the rights.
In the patent world every time you want to renew a patent, the cost gets higher. The intent is that eventually that patent costs too much to be worth it and then the monopoly is broken
In THIS case he made his 10 MILLION already LOL
Quote from: zorgon on September 24, 2012, 02:45:00 AM
Okay so I looked at the site you linked and you are jumping the gun here...
Seems you are quick to justify being a PIRATE :P
Sato is saying that he will not relinquish his copyright, but that he will not enforce it for an indefinite time.
What he is saying that a copyright should have a finite limit of time just like a patent. This allows the creator to make his/her money THEN relinquish the rights.
In the patent world every time you want to renew a patent, the cost gets higher. The intent is that eventually that patent costs too much to be worth it and then the monopoly is broken
In THIS case he made his 10 MILLION already LOL
he made it, and hes being nice and willing to share, but the everything must be free crowd believe this is a move in the right direction. so what we will end up with is only certain people will be allowed to be successful and everyone else will have to wait around for handouts.
there aint no way the guys at the top are gonna let the general public be a success enmasse. then their success would be meaningless and they couldn't convince people to kill each other anymore, etc.
if it happens it will be freakin' miracle
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 02:20:31 AM
you seemed to have missed the part where i said non-christians do the same thing, particularly after they find out i'm a christian.
Sure. Christians don't have any monopoly on being pathological. Absolutely none at all. Most of the worst people I encounter online are strong atheists.
There is no inherent corrolation between a person's ideology and their degree of mental illness. The atheists I've encountered can often be just as sick as many Christians; they simply are for different reasons.
An atheist's sickness tends to be related to their nihilism. Because they generally believe that literally nothing has inherent worth, it's very difficult for them to derive positive meaning from anything, including an overall purpose for being alive. This generates more intense rage in them, than I've seen within people of virtually any other group. The archetypical atheist is a truly incredibly miserable and rage filled human being.
Quotei seem to recall you posting in another thread here that christians are this that and the other thing. now just to give you some idea how that translates into problems for me, is that those thoughts are in your subconscious mind so when you and i have interactions, every time i do something even remotely irritating, i mean it could be something extremely minute, it will seem bigger than normal to you because you already don't appreciate my world view, even if my world view is not typical and perhaps less offensive to you (?).
I'm already aware of the fact that you are more intelligent than probably 90% of the rest of the people I typically encounter, irrespective of group or ideological affiliation. You do exhibit
some traces of psychopathology, of course. Literally everybody in this day and age does, myself included, so that does not need to be considered an insult. Yours seem to revolve primarily around a (relatively mild, admittedly) persecution complex relating to your faith, and an unfortunate degree of sympathy for your own gender, relative to mine.
Both of these issues are completely forgiveable, however, (and in fact are vanishingly minor, in the grand scheme of things) so I do not hold either of them against you.
QuoteThe fact i resemble something in anyway, that you are already predisposed to despising, is going to interfer with your ability to just treat me like a person and a friend.
I suspect that your perception of my negative bias against Christianity, is actually doing more harm to your ability to perceive that I genuinely do value you as a human being, than it is to my own ability to recognise said worth in you.
Given what I have read about Jesus Christ, I will be sufficiently immodest as to suggest that he and I probably could have been very good friends, had we been alive simultaneously. My rejection of the religion which bears his name, should not be interpreted as a rejection of the man himself. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 02:40:13 AM
lol! too logical. lol if i can't express who i am, i'm not free.
Well true to a point... but does EVERY situation require you to say "Oh by the way I am a christian" :o
Back in the day Pagans wore that pentagram hidden from view because to announce themselves meant instant persecution and maybe death :P
A friend of mine is a Witch... no not a Wiccan but a Witch... not really he just pretends to be one a wannabe :P but he put bumper stickers all over his car advertizing and wondered why he had issues :D
One does not need to advertize ones religion in normal day to day dealings with life :P
But if ya do, you have to suffer the consequences :P
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 02:36:25 AM
i think the aquaponics are a great idea. but um, yeah i can see big farming corps giving up all their years of dedication and hard work, and their family businesses, can't you?
Yes, the psychopaths and the STS polarised members of the population are going to try and hold things back, undo. Being counter-evolutionary is part of the definition of the STS/negative/entropic polarity. We could almost say that the loyal opposition would be remiss in their own duties if they did not try to stop us. That's their job.
Just because they try, however, does not necessarily mean that it immediately follows that they will succeed. Money is not the only power in the universe. If it was, then even these few examples I have given you would not have occurred. I am sometimes surprised myself, to learn of the magnitude and strength of the collective resistance to corporate psychopathy, which currently exists. Battle has been very much joined, I assure you; it is not for one moment a case of the Lizard Hearted doing whatever they want, and nobody else pushing back.
Quote from: zorgon on September 24, 2012, 02:45:00 AM
Okay so I looked at the site you linked and you are jumping the gun here...
Seems you are quick to justify being a PIRATE :P
Piracy is the corporate term for it. I prefer to think of it as being somewhat less imbued with corporate mind control. As far as I am concerned, "intellectual property," is both a morally and rationally illegitimate concept.
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 02:47:56 AM
everyone else will have to wait around for handouts.
Well heck... you can send my welfare checks to Las Vegas :D Then I can go get a nice car to be free to do what I really want to do :D
Quotethere aint no way the guys at the top are gonna let the general public be a success enmasse. then their success would be meaningless and they couldn't convince people to kill each other anymore, etc.
Amy called it "Spotlight" Here is what Spock has to say about it all
"..it all comes down to POWER"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXV5ciE8ucE
QuoteMoney is not the only power in the universe.
man you aren't kidding!
as far as the lizard hearted, well, i don't know but i tihnk somebody is just trying to make lizards look bad. lol i mean what if they are a real, intergalactic race? and this kind of association of evil with lizards is just predisposing a large group of people to prejudicial thoughts so if they encounter them in the future, they will be willing to shoot them or something. until we can prove, without any doubt, that there are real, significant issues with reptilians, i'm even leery of suggesting they are even as bad as us humans. we only have people like david icke to look to on this topic. i mean, afterall, yoda was a lizard lol (yeah i know he was just a fictional character, i'm just pointing out that the altnernative community can be manipulated just as easily as any other community, and who the heck knows at this point, what ETs or other sentient races might be like? i sure don't. haven't met one yet.
Quote from: petrus4 on September 24, 2012, 02:55:43 AM
As far as I am concerned, "intellectual property," is both a morally and rationally illegitimate concept.
So what have you produced that would give you what Amy calls "Spotlight"?
I have seen many websites around the net that copy AND TAKE FULL CREDIT for my hard work on the Naval Space Command. Now I could take action but seems little point.
It is frustrating though to have people come back and post "Hey so and so has this cool idea about Space Command... ever here about it"
Do you think THAT is right and justified? I call that outright Piracy... I call that outright plagerism and I call that outright disrespectful. When one of those persons now writes a book and makes money off my work without even acknowledging me... do you consider that to be fair?
"As far as I am concerned, "intellectual property," is both a morally and rationally illegitimate concept."
Yup I guess you do :P Sorry I disagree with you... they have just STOLEN my "Spotlight and I will make sure they are CURSED
And one problem with the "Do as you will" concept. Well TWO really...
The first is those that profess such a plan usually get annoyed when people don't want to follow or listen to it. Back in the "Hippy" days it was "Do your own thing" but if "your own thing" didn't happen to fit their pattern you were called "the man" or worse.
If your going to promote "Do as you wish" then you have to allow EVERYONE to do as they wish... and not complain when their thing is not your thing :P
The other is this... Crowley said "do as you will shall be the whole of the law"
Well that was corrupted from the original...
"That it harm none, do as thou wilt" or "Do what you will, so long as it harms none"
This same principle applies to freedom of speech... you have the right to say what you wish SO LONG AS IT HARMS NO ONE. This is something most people overlook :P
You can't have it both ways. You cannot say "Everyone is free do do as they wish" without having that "Do no harm" clause. Otherwise you only have anarchy and chaos
QuoteI'm already aware of the fact that you are more intelligent than probably 90% of the rest of the people I typically encounter,
*jaw hits floor*
nobody has ever told me that before and i'm nearly 55 years old.
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 03:17:14 AM
i'm nearly 55 years old.
55? LOL Spring Chicken yet :P
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 03:00:05 AM
as far as the lizard hearted, well, i don't know but i tihnk somebody is just trying to make lizards look bad. lol i mean what if they are a real, intergalactic race?
Been saying that all along :P
And don't forget LIZARDS were the dominate life form on this planet for over 400 million years... think about it... the entire existence of man a mere drop in the bucket
Unless that Christian part of you has issues with accepting the long life span of Dinos :P
Quote from: zorgon on September 24, 2012, 03:14:42 AM
So what have you produced that would give you what Amy calls "Spotlight"?
I have seen many websites around the net that copy AND TAKE FULL CREDIT for my hard work on the Naval Space Command. Now I could take action but seems little point.
By saying that there seems to be little point, are you implying that you have not, in fact, really been harmed by what they have done?
QuoteDo you think THAT is right and justified? I call that outright Piracy... I call that outright plagerism and I call that outright disrespectful. When one of those persons now writes a book and makes money off my work without even acknowledging me... do you consider that to be fair?
Yes, but what is never really acknowledged, is the fact that money is really the core of the issue, isn't it? In other words, if we were not living in a scarcity based society, you would not need to use a monopoly on your own mental output, in order to generate income, in order to live. So if, at least mentally, we can take ourselves out of that scenario, then we can realise that, if living in such a scenario, it would not be an issue at all.
Our society does not actually reward the production or creation of abundance by the individual. It really rewards the regulation of scarcity. Look at the concept of the "Disney vault," as one example. Disney take steps to periodically increase the rarity of certain of their films, and by doing so, arbitrarily manipulate public demand for them.
As a further result of this social structure, if you yourself wish to eat, you feel that you have no choice to but to also join the game, and engage in similar behaviour with your own creative work, in order to try to ensure paying demand for it. If we were living in a society that was not organised in such a blatantly psychopathic manner, then while I could definitely understand anger over a lack of
attribution, I myself at least would probably not be angry over the use of my own work, if attribution were given.
QuoteYup I guess you do :P Sorry I disagree with you... they have just STOLEN my "Spotlight and I will make sure they are CURSED
That is vindictive. I do not consider such justifiable; and more to the point, my own karmic profile does not allow me to get away with such, even at such times as I am tempted to engage in such behaviour. If you have the luxury of being able to get away with such acts, then consider yourself fortunate; although it is a perverse kind of good fortune; and your attitude here is also in conflict with what you go on to say about doing no harm, in the remainder of the quoted post.
Which is it? Do you consistently do no harm, or do you curse people in retaliation for behaviour which you consider wrongful, and then consider yourself justified?
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 03:17:14 AM
*jaw hits floor*
nobody has ever told me that before and i'm nearly 55 years old.
My statements reflect merely that which I observe. I do not engage in flattery, and unless there is some risk of censure, of a particular kind that would cause me disadvantage, I do not particularly care about offending people, either.
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 03:17:14 AM
*jaw hits floor*
nobody has ever told me that before and i'm nearly 55 years old.
I guess that means you missed my advice to Primus about you then. :P ;)
Quote from: zorgon on September 24, 2012, 02:31:58 AM
If no one has to do anything differently then nothing will change. This very thread is asking authors to do just that CHANGE what they are doing and give their work away for free.
Ah, f'chissake. Sure, policy makers and those they direct need to do things differently. I'm speaking of the cleaning lady in the local hotel. I'm speaking of the truck driver. I'm speaking of the grocery stocker. I'm speaking of the bank teller. I'm speaking of the farmer. And so on and so on. Ere Ye really THAT dense then? [grin]
Authors will continue to sell Their works... But as the need for money dissipates, and with a Conscious awareness of the goals throughout society, when the time comes that the author can live richly whether S/He sells anything or not, the the writing will be done by Those who WANT to write and judged on the merits as perceived by the readership as a whole, and not by some editor or "critic."
QuoteJobs are already being replaced by robots and those effected are NOT having a choice.
Yeah, but what do You think Their choice would be if They didn't NEED the job to survive and could live richly without it? I am sure that if someOne's bliss is to work 16 hours a day in a sweatshop, We could accommodate Them.
QuoteWelfare? Yeah I see how that works just around the corner... all the illegals getting free medical care and all those Cadilacs and HumVees collecting their welfare checks and food stamps, while an HONEST person cannot collect assistance as was meant to be
You're SO seeing this from a scarcity paradigm! No One will be an "illegal" as all may live richly - "illegals" are only a problem when They're seen to be "taking something away" from Others - and borders will lose significance with sigmergic governance via the web. AND the money We spend on war presently, as Bill Hicks said, would feed, clothe and house ALL of the world abundantly.
QuoteFree energy won't happen until some inventor actually gets a working device into production. If free energy is your ticket to Nirvana, it will be a very long wait
OR if the toadies see They are better off to STOP toadying and release the information to the public, and We collectively spend money developing it. Individual inventors have already built working devices and been killed and threatened and otherwise shut up.
QuoteChina probably has the best chance at getting close to that... I would move but then they are prejudiced against "Whitey"
If the awareness spreads that the whole planet will change and it is to Their advantage to offer it to the world...
Anyway, I believe the tipping point, when reached, will make all the difference in the universe.
Quote from: zorgon on September 24, 2012, 03:25:03 AM
Been saying that all along :P
And don't forget LIZARDS were the dominate life form on this planet for over 400 million years... think about it... the entire existence of man a mere drop in the bucket
Unless that Christian part of you has issues with accepting the long life span of Dinos :P
nope. no problem at all. at this point, it seems perfectly logical, just based on the info in ancient texts and the statuary before 3000BC
Quote from: A51Watcher on September 24, 2012, 03:36:43 AM
I guess that means you missed my advice to Primus about you then. :P ;)
i guess i did!
QuoteThose who WANT to write and judged on the merits as perceived by the readership as a whole, and not by some editor or "critic."
it already works this way. the writer makes money by readers buying their book.. the readership is effected adversely or positively by those who manipulate public opinion. don't tell me there won't be magazines and other such methods to sway public opinion in abundance paradigm? . afterall, they would be doing what they want *et.al, writing critical reviews* will this just turn into a moneyless version of what we already have, complete with pecking order and people who are adept at swaying public opinion and a bunch of people doing nothing while everyone else works? i mean currently all they'd have to do to negatively impact a book's sales is to say it is christian, democratic, republican, jewish or muslim. well that is, unless the book was an opportunity to witness one of those people behaving badly. lol
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 04:42:26 AM
i guess i did!
Go on then Primus... tell her what I said.
ok I guess he is not around.
Here is what I said -
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2567.msg36084#msg36084 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2567.msg36084#msg36084)
Quote...I think Zecheria Sitchin did an excellent job in one of his later books displaying a collection of scriptures that clearly indicated that when various people were speaking to the Lord, they were speaking to a real being, not some disembodied voice.
Also the giants in the early times that took human wives have me very interested in what was going on there, the who what where how and why of it all.
undo11 is extremely well versed in all these subjects and I find all her posts fascinating and educational. She is one of the most devout and at the same time open minded Christians I know of. She is open to and interested in any information related to this and sorts it all in to some great theories, and is ok with not having all the answers yet.
I wish more researchers (of any subject) were ok with not having all the answers, and not get in a big rush and choose some half- baked explanation and run with it.
Anyway... Back to what I think, I think there is much more than meets the eye to all religion.
As petrus mentioned, it is ok to look for other perspectives on what you already know, you will either discard them or look further, depending on the merit you find in them.
My best suggestion would be to read some of Zecheria Sitchin's work, and to keep an eye on what undo has to say, lot of education and experience goes into her posts and she manages to even point out where Zecheria misses the mark on occasions.
At this point I suspect the Bible may be a chapter in a bigger story.
Cheers
thanks A51! what a nice compliment!
what do you think of the abundance paradigm? it sounds great on paper but will it work?
Quote from: undo11 on September 24, 2012, 05:05:57 AM
it already works this way. the writer makes money by readers buying their book.. the readership is effected adversely or positively by those who manipulate public opinion. don't tell me there won't be magazines and other such methods to sway public opinion in abundance paradigm? . afterall, they would be doing what they want *et.al, writing critical reviews* will this just turn into a moneyless version of what we already have, complete with pecking order and people who are adept at swaying public opinion and a bunch of people doing nothing while everyone else works? i mean currently all they'd have to do to negatively impact a book's sales is to say it is christian, democratic, republican, jewish or muslim. well that is, unless the book was an opportunity to witness one of those people behaving badly. lol
No. It does NOT work that way now. Now, an author must be run through the gauntlet of editors and publishers. Then MAYBE Their book will be published. And maybe promoted. And then maybe They will make money to live on. Authors write to make money (and maybe edify and entertain as well) as a primary motive for the most part.
In the abundance paradigm, there is no monetary motivation, so written works will be strictly for edification and entertainment and social status. All works will be available. No One will need to write to put food on the table. The initial judging will be the readers and not Others that decide whether the book will be published so that readers can read. There will not be suppression - refusal to publish because content is disruptive...
Even if You consider Self-publishing... If One has no money to get THAT going, the writings will languish in today's world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw-MFeR8Frw
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 24, 2012, 04:20:47 PM
No. It does NOT work that way now. Now, an author must be run through the gauntlet of editors and publishers. Then MAYBE Their book will be published. And maybe promoted. And then maybe They will make money to live on. Authors write to make money (and maybe edify and entertain as well) as a primary motive for the most part.
In the abundance paradigm, there is no monetary motivation, so written works will be strictly for edification and entertainment and social status. All works will be available. No One will need to write to put food on the table. The initial judging will be the readers and not Others that decide whether the book will be published so that readers can read. There will not be suppression - refusal to publish because content is disruptive...
Even if You consider Self-publishing... If One has no money to get THAT going, the writings will languish in today's world.
but people that want their book promoted by the paradigm critics will still be forced by the people who want to be paradigm editors. see, everyone is doing what they want to in the paradigm. to tell a perfectly legit career field like book editors, that they are out of job so sorry get a different one, wouldn't work in the paradigm would it? imagine how many jobs you would have to axe just to force the world to behave the way you want them to
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 01:48:52 AM
but people that want their book promoted by the paradigm critics will still be forced by the people who want to be paradigm editors. see, everyone is doing what they want to in the paradigm. to tell a perfectly legit career field like book editors, that they are out of job so sorry get a different one, wouldn't work in the paradigm would it? imagine how many jobs you would have to axe just to force the world to behave the way you want them to
Let's consider editors... Today, many are editors NOT because They LOVE to edit, but because it puts food on the table. In abundance, those People will be doing something else with Their time. Those who LOVE to edit will be honored to be asked to edit works, and do as much as They want to of editing. And writers WILL want editors often enough, I am sure, to keep Those who LOVE to edit busy. When books are "spotlighted," when they become popular, the editors will earn social currency.
No One is being forced to to behave any way They don't want to as long as Their behavior does not break the three Laws.
Oh, and there will be no "careers..." Just People choosing to pursue Their bliss.
EDIT to add: Critics... They will be any and all who both read the work and want to speak out about the quality. They will be most anybody at one time or another. Some will gain reputations as good critics, and Others will take Their advice to heart, reporting on how good the advice was, and those critics will gain social currency.
ama
i really do love the idea but it's just not going to work. people who want to do something that ruins that vision in anyway, such as wanting to continue doing what they know how to do, such as editing texts, or prostitution, drug dealing, writing religious books or books that are subversive in some way, it would require such a high level of micromanagement of everyone's paradigm that people would feel oppressed in the midst of their free stuff.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 01:48:52 AM
but people that want their book promoted by the paradigm critics will still be forced by the people who want to be paradigm editors. see, everyone is doing what they want to in the paradigm. to tell a perfectly legit career field like book editors, that they are out of job so sorry get a different one, wouldn't work in the paradigm would it? imagine how many jobs you would have to axe just to force the world to behave the way you want them to
Undo, the thing that you are not understanding here, is that we are talking about a scenario where "jobs," are absent. In the society that Amaterasu and I (and to a greater or lesser extent, Jacques Fresco, although there are some minor differences of opinion there) envision, "jobs," do not exist.
This is where it becomes exceptionally difficult for most people to see where we are coming from. Even in terms of the Internet, probably 90% of the population do not have the kind of direct personal experience that I have had with a gift economy, (in terms of childhood pre-Internet software sharing for the Commodore 64 and Amiga computers, and then more recognisable file sharing once the Internet became available) and even fewer would have had my recent anthropological experience with the hippie subculture, where I was able to observe elements of an ethos very similar to the Abundance Paradigm/Equal Value System, being viably practiced on a daily basis.
In other words, the only reason why I know that any of this works, is because I have direct, empirical evidence; I have
seen it work.
The other problem is that most people are so heavily ideologically invested in Capitalism, that it is largely impossible for them to comprehend that another viable system might exist.
Said other system is viable, or could be, but it is not viable in a sociopolitical environment like the current one, where society is governed by psychopaths, and where society also has a strong atheist/pseudo-rationalist caste, which is aggressive in enforcing public ideological conformity to the lies of the psychopathic authorities. Our police state is not merely one in physical terms, but in intellectual terms also; Richard Dawkins and his disciples play the same role for the mind, that uniformed police do for the body.
Another thing to understand, is that the media industry in particular, are relentless in their brainwashing of the population. Theft constitutes a moral crime where it exclusively concerns non-renewable, physical objects; such that the theft of one of said objects, causes an irredeemable loss to the owner of said object.
The media cartels would have people believe that that is true to precisely the same degree with intangible media; that is, information itself. This is, however, flawed reasoning, and it is engaged in deliberately, for the purposes of promoting psychopathic greed. What file sharing potentially causes a loss of, is the
distribution monopoly governing a particular example of media; and given the scarcity-based nature of the rest of society, said monopolies are justified on the basis that individuals require money in order to maintain physical existence at all.
Look to your Messiah, Undo. I am not advocating anything which he himself did not. He advocated that people have faith in the idea that they will be provided for without worry, and you probably also know of the example of his feeding his disciples from a wheat field on the Sabbath, which like many other things he did, drew criticism from the Jewish authorities.
Quotepsychopathic greed
working (if able) to buy necessities is not psychopathic.
furthering your education so you can do an even better job to make even more money, is reward for dedication. neither of these are bad things.
where the problem arises is when some can't or won't work or when someone deliberately sabotages the hard work of others. for example, i painted a picture about 10 years ago, of the singer david bowie. it was my first real digital painting of a famous person. all my other artworks were of fantasy based things that i just made up, like mermaids or fairies for example.
well i took the color pallete from the photograph of bowie and using a digital paint program painted it free hand on an empty digital canvas., without any layers or tracing or even guidelines. i used the smudge tool, to achieve effects that made his hair look crazier, cause it was bowie as the goblin king from labyrinth with that wacky red hair spiked all over the place. then, when i was happy with it, i put it in an online art gallery, where i had some of my fantasy work. the owner of the gallery accused me of just taking the smudge brush and pushing the colors around so that it looked like i painted it. and he did this not only on my galler but on the forums for the whole site which had thousands of members.
i was devastated. after i recovered from the blow, i tried to submit other artworks to another fantasy based art gallery and they wouldn't accept them, claiming the same thing, that i was photo manipulating. i was not. i went from being sad to be livid, and completely gave up art for years. then finally i submitted a piece to a real high brow fantasy art gallery. it was rejected but the reason given was that it was not good enough, rather than accusing me of photomanipulation. this was acceptable as it was a problem that could be resolved. i would just improve it and resubmit it until they accepted it.
at the time, they had a works in progress forum where other artists could critique your work. immediately this chick descended on my art and claimed it was total crap. when i finally got it to the point where it was accepted by the gallery (and that wasn't easy), she accused me of...........photomanipulation. after that i only managed to get one other piece up there everything else was rejected. i was literally run out of the art world on a rail. not because i didn't have talent, but because, as a general rule, people suck :D
here was the first piece the high brow art gallery accepted:
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 02:18:31 AM
ama
i really do love the idea but it's just not going to work. people who want to do something that ruins that vision in anyway, such as wanting to continue doing what they know how to do, such as editing texts, or prostitution, drug dealing, writing religious books or books that are subversive in some way, it would require such a high level of micromanagement of everyone's paradigm that people would feel oppressed in the midst of their free stuff.
Huh??? Lessee... I want to edit; it is My bliss. I put an ad on the interweb. Five writers see it and send Me Their stuff. I edit it for Them and send it back - and then They publish. Who's doing any management?
I want to have sex (not sure what I would prostitute Myself for...); I put an ad out on the web. 20 guys respond and I arrange time with all of Them. When They're done, They post reviews to the web of Their experience, and if I'm good in bed, I earn social currency, and MORE guys contact Me. If I'm not so good, I may have to keep running ads. Who's doing the managements?
I want to provide drugs; I put an ad out on the web and 10 People contact Me and I give Them drugs. They use them and report on the web about the quality of what I provided. If My drugs are good, I earn social status. If not, I may keep having to put out ads. (To be fair here, drug dealers are NOT drug dealers because They LOVE to deal drugs; They are drug dealers to make MONEY...) Who's doing the management?
I want to write religious books; it is My bliss. I spend all the time I want to, writing. I may even hunt the web for an editor... When I think a book is finished, I publish it... Who's doing the management?
I want to write subversive books... Hmmmm. What would One be subverting...? "Let's go back to most of Us living in poverty with a power "elite" taking the planet over; with millions of Us dying in starvation each year, with a debt-slavery system and being controlled through money! Here's how!" Ok, even presuming there is something to subvert, if One wants to write such, One can. One can even publish it. But readership - or at least anyOne willing to support the plan after reading... Those may be hard to come by. Still... Who's doing the managing?
Please! Give Me more things People LOVE to do. Or anything that needs doing. I will show You how there is no management at all.
ama
scenario:
joe blo is a writing critic. he loves to critique the writings of others and other people like to read his critiques. he becomes famous. authors begin scrambling to have this guy critique their work. he starts rejecting pieces and has a separate column on crappy writers. yeah.
yeah, you are underestimating the levels people will stoop to for pecking order with or without money.
in a closed society like petrus was talking aobut, that's a different thing entirely. they have the liberty to reject members who are not willing to do the task assigned to them. and if they chose the task willingly they would likely not keep it if something more appropriate to their interests came their way.
captain jack. thankfully no one accused me of photomanipulating him
my most popular painting,
riku from the video game, kingdom hearts. i painted for my daughter. she was a riku fan.
i'm bringing all this up to show you that there was no reason for them to treat my artwork like they did, other than it wasn't as good as someone else's or was too good (looked to lifelike in the case of bowie. i learned i would have to deliberately make it look messy. doh. but riku, you can just tell i painted it, even though it's neat, you can see the brush strokes easily).
the point here is, these paintings were on FREE ART GALLERIES. yes, i was run out on a rail from a free art gallery. free, as in everyone does their thang, sorta art gallery. no money involved.
paradigm won't work.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 03:02:45 AM
working (if able) to buy necessities is not psychopathic.
In a scarcity paradigm, in a world where that is expected, nay, even necessary to live, this is true. But if One did not have to work for the necessities, One is then free to spend time as One chooses.
It would be psychopathic if One chose to continue a world where People must spend the bulk of Their time enriching the few, doing things They are less than enamored of (with bumper stickers saying "I'd rather be [doing what, in the abundance paradigm, They COULD be doing]), as debt slaves, with rampant poverty and starvation - over choosing a world where They and everyOne had plenty of quality food to eat, appropriate and well made clothing of Their choice, a domicile They are happy with, and available transportation to anywhere.
Quotefurthering your education so you can do an even better job to make even more money, is reward for dedication. neither of these are bad things.
So further Your education to become an expert in Your bliss and earn social currency - renown, praise, being the "go-to" Person... And You don't have to go into debt to half Your life to get that education. No, they're not bad - it's just that there is so much BETTER a way to go.
Quotewhere the problem arises is when some can't or won't work
Not in the abundance paradigm...no NEED to do anything. But with One's bliss available to One, most WILL choose to contribute in a way They love.
Quoteor when someone deliberately sabotages the hard work of others. for example, i painted a picture about 10 years ago, of the singer david bowie. it was my first real digital painting of a famous person. all my other artworks were of fantasy based things that i just made up, like mermaids or fairies for example.
well i took the color pallete from the photograph of bowie and using a digital paint program painted it free hand on an empty digital canvas., without any layers or tracing or even guidelines. i used the smudge tool, to achieve effects that made his hair look crazier, cause it was bowie as the goblin king from labyrinth with that wacky red hair spiked all over the place. then, when i was happy with it, i put it in an online art gallery, where i had some of my fantasy work. the owner of the gallery accused me of just taking the smudge brush and pushing the colors around so that it looked like i painted it. and he did this not only on my galler but on the forums for the whole site which had thousands of members.
i was devastated. after i recovered from the blow, i tried to submit other artworks to another fantasy based art gallery and they wouldn't accept them, claiming the same thing, that i was photo manipulating. i was not. i went from being sad to be livid, and completely gave up art for years. then finally i submitted a piece to a real high brow fantasy art gallery. it was rejected but the reason given was that it was not good enough, rather than accusing me of photomanipulation. this was acceptable as it was a problem that could be resolved. i would just improve it and resubmit it until they accepted it.
at the time, they had a works in progress forum where other artists could critique your work. immediately this chick descended on my art and claimed it was total crap. when i finally got it to the point where it was accepted by the gallery (and that wasn't easy), she accused me of...........photomanipulation. after that i only managed to get one other piece up there everything else was rejected. i was literally run out of the art world on a rail. not because i didn't have talent, but because, as a general rule, people suck :D
I will admit, there is little cure for interpersonal poor behavior. Except that such digital galleries will be online, will be begging the artists (not the other way around), and other shifts (like those doing galleries will be doing so because They LOVE to do them and not because They can make money...), and a gallery purveyor will have a rep to keep and will be more inclined to be civil. Too many artists treated poorly and the gallery will die.
restating this from above, so you address it ama
the point here is, these paintings were on FREE ART GALLERIES. yes, i was run out on a rail from a free art gallery. free, as in everyone does their thang, sorta art gallery. no money involved.
paradigm won't work.
one last picture. in order to paint a pic of one of my favorite movie characters (wesley from princess bride), i had to put it up with a link that showed every step i took to paint it, every tool, frame by frame, i uploaded each new change, consisting of some 10 pages of copies of the image after each new modification. that's the extent i had to go to to redeem myself. a few people said it looked great, one put it in classic movie gallery, but that's where it ended because my rep as an artist had already been ruined.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 03:45:30 AM
restating this from above, so you address it ama
the point here is, these paintings were on FREE ART GALLERIES. yes, i was run out on a rail from a free art gallery. free, as in everyone does their thang, sorta art gallery. no money involved.
paradigm won't work.
one last picture. in order to paint a pic of one of my favorite movie characters (wesley from princess bride), i had to put it up with a link that showed every step i took to paint it, every tool, frame by frame, i uploaded each new change, consisting of some 10 pages of copies of the image after each new modification. that's the extent i had to go to to redeem myself. a few people said it looked great, one put it in classic movie gallery, but that's where it ended because my rep as an artist had already been ruined.
Beth, if that is what You're using to say the whole will not work... I wonder. But in T.A.P., what skin will it be off Your nose if some galleries reject Your work? Lesson: Document the process (that's where Personal Witness would be very handy, n'est pas?). Then no One will dare make accusations unless They are quite sure of the truth to the accusations They make. If You had documented the work in progress of the Bowie thing...that would have been egg all over the face of the accuser.
Sure, some People will be snits. Eventually though, it will catch up with Them. No, all problems are not solved. Just the vast majority. And to be fair, if I had the rep of Picasso and could trade it for Humanity living as well as Each wished...I'd ditch the rep in a heartbeat.
Oh, and BTW... NICE work!
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 03:02:45 AM
working (if able) to buy necessities is not psychopathic.
The activity in and of itself is not, no; but the authors of the system which created the necessity for such,
are.
Before you defend the
conventional/Capitalistic work ethic, I would also strongly suggest that you take a close look at who it primarily benefits. You will likely discover that it is not you.
Quotefurthering your education so you can do an even better job to make even more money, is reward for dedication. neither of these are bad things.
I will never attempt to claim that work, in and of itself, is an inherently bad thing. The problem arises in the definition of work, and also the social organisation surrounding said work. Human societies make no allowance whatsoever, for any form of natural self-organisation. Everything must be organised by some centralised, autocratic authority which supposedly knows best.
(http://rense.com/kdona/02Pyramid%20stone%20with%20eye%20un.jpg)
It all goes back to our friend, here; the proverbial loyal opposition. These are who Amaterasu refer to as the Lizard Hearted. Their way of life depends not only on them being the tiny minority at the capstone of the pyramid, but them also having a broad base of loyal, industrious, busy workers, who outnumber them by at least several million to one.
So naturally they want us to have as strong a work ethic as possible; because it's preferable for them in several different ways if you are willing to motivate yourself for their agenda, rather than them having an overseer crack a physical whip. Apart from anything else, they rely very heavily on our being able to deceive ourselves that we are actually free; and that is made very difficult if we have an external taskmaster.
Quotethen, when i was happy with it, i put it in an online art gallery, where i had some of my fantasy work. the owner of the gallery accused me of just taking the smudge brush and pushing the colors around so that it looked like i painted it. and he did this not only on my galler but on the forums for the whole site which had thousands of members.
Antisocial behaviour, in my observation, is primarily caused by people being in positions of authority, when said positions also govern a sufficiently large number of people, that said authorities are also relatively anonymous, and therefore are also unaccountable. To get a positive result in virtually any social scenario, you want a total number of less than a thousand people, within the individual group or context you are in.
So, yes; by going to a web site with a viewer number in the thousands, you were more or less guaranteeing yourself a negative result, since positive social dynamics have no chance of scaling to a community of that size. You need to be in a more intimate environment if you want it to work.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 03:21:28 AM
ama
scenario:
joe blo is a writing critic. he loves to critique the writings of others and other people like to read his critiques. he becomes famous. authors begin scrambling to have this guy critique their work. he starts rejecting pieces and has a separate column on crappy writers. yeah.
Sorry. Missed this...
What would motivate this guy to start making a list of People He thinks are crappy? Is it a Betterment Ethic? Really? Most will see that as rather petty. They want to know who the GOOD writers are. HIS social currency will drop.
Quoteyeah, you are underestimating the levels people will stoop to for pecking order with or without money.
No... No I'm not. Pecking orders are for People who need to establish Themselves in a hierarchy. In T.A.P., there IS no hierarchy, per se, and all must prove THEMSELVES and not rag on Others for status...
Quotein a closed society like petrus was talking aobut, that's a different thing entirely. they have the liberty to reject members who are not willing to do the task assigned to them. and if they chose the task willingly they would likely not keep it if something more appropriate to their interests came their way.
Except... There ARE no assigned tasks. Anywhere. The People doing the work do it because it makes Them HAPPY. Sure, People will shift around in what They are doing as time goes on, but the point is that there will be PLENTY of People to do the creative, investigative and caring things, while the dull and unsavory things are done by machine.
Have You read My piece on stigmergic governance...?
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2103.0
ama
i promise i will read it momentarily (stigmeric), but allow me to point out that what will happen, i'm fairly certain, is that people who are not popular, for whatever reason, will be deemed unfit to have the benefits everyone else has and this will result in a sort of prison like population of people who have to do all the stuff no one else wants to do. there will be no paradigm for them and no safeguards in place to assure that doesn't happen. if 6000+ years of human civilization has not taught you that, you aren't paying attention.
k i responded in your stigmeric thread
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 05:31:25 AM
ama
i promise i will read it momentarily (stigmeric), but allow me to point out that what will happen, i'm fairly certain, is that people who are not popular, for whatever reason, will be deemed unfit to have the benefits everyone else has and this will result in a sort of prison like population of people who have to do all the stuff no one else wants to do. there will be no paradigm for them and no safeguards in place to assure that doesn't happen. if 6000+ years of human civilization has not taught you that, you aren't paying attention.
Deemed? Why? EveryOne can go to the web and order what They want and the robots will deliver. You think the robots are going to pass judgment? No One will be dealing on any regular basis with anyOne They don't like. If someOne is unpleasant enough, don't hang out with Them.
And haven't You been paying attention? Anything no One WANTS TO DO is done by ROBOTS.
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 25, 2012, 06:10:37 AM
Deemed? Why? EveryOne can go to the web and order what They want and the robots will deliver. You think the robots are going to pass judgment? No One will be dealing on any regular basis with anyOne They don't like. If someOne is unpleasant enough, don't hang out with Them.
who will enforce the laws? they will be pressured by groups that are already in place in society, to eradicate their competition, for the hearts and minds of the planet. so you'll have abrahamic religions vs. atheism, vs. buddhism vs. new ageism vs. everything else -ism. somebody is gonna get sent to the labor camp to do the jobs no one else wants to do in the name of society and social order. just exactly what stalin did. and he was the biggest mass murder in human history.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 06:13:58 AM
who will enforce the laws? they will be pressured by groups that are already in place in society, to eradicate their competition, for the hearts and minds of the planet. so you'll have abrahamic religions vs. atheism, vs. buddhism vs. new ageism vs. everything else -ism. somebody is gonna get sent to the labor camp to do the jobs no one else wants to do in the name of society and social order. just exactly what stalin did. and he was the biggest mass murder in human history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjSXG9zALvk
It is already happening.
no actually i' m not.
this is why. i have been studying and admiring the work of mr jacque (the florida guy who came up with the future city and hydroponic farming and all that. watched many videos of his and read info on him too). was impressed greatly till i heard him say, just briefly (and this always seems to be that sort of underlying secret that is obvious but not discussed), that religion would have to be done away with in the name of peace and progress. what that translates to is, it isn't enough to control how you spend your time or where, or in what state, but also what you think about in the space between your ears. this is not an acceptable future for religious people, and i'm sure were the shoe on the other foot, it would not an acceptable future for the non religious.
considering the rhetoric i see spewed around the internet, the increasing hostility towards christians and the obvious backlash towards them, the hostility towards jews and muslims, the concerns and fears pinging off the walls, the brainwashing enmasse of people via popular music, movies, television, the internet, video games and etc, don't tell me that the first people that would be forced to go do those jobs no one else wants to, would not be the people deemed least desirable, which as you can tell in modern day society is as follows:
1. any one in an abrahamic religion.
2. white people
to further break that down.
1. any white people in an abrahamic religion.
to further break that down
1. any white people in judaism or christianity.
now you know, and i know, it ain't gonna be jewish people. it's gonna be the christians.
they'll be the new peons of the planet...at least, the ones that are allowed to live.
seriously, don't sit there and pretend you haven't actually pondered this cause i think i can read well enough to know how this world view places on a popularity chart .lol
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 06:28:47 AM
no actually i' m not.
this is why. i have been studying and admiring the work of mr jacque (the florida guy who came up with the future city and hydroponic farming and all that. watched many videos of his and read info on him too). was impressed greatly till i heard him say, just briefly (and this always seems to be that sort of underlying secret that is obvious but not discussed), that religion would have to be done away with in the name of peace and progress.
Yes, Jacque is an anti-theist. He actually makes Richard Dawkins look like Gandhi in more or less general terms. That is one of my problems with him. There are a couple of others.
As to your other point, no, Christians aren't going to be made into a slave caste and sent to the re-education camps; at least not in any scenario that I advocate. What Christians don't seem to recognise, is the fact that they themselves being persecuted on a unique basis in that manner, would imply that their view of themselves as being at the center of the universe was actually correct; which, frankly, it isn't. If anyone was going to be sent to re-education camps, there is no sane reason why it would exclusively be Christians who were sent to them. Other groups would be as well; in fact, Muslims would be much more likely to be ahead of you in the queue, given the current political climate.
QuoteThis is going to get you abused; and frankly, for this point, you deserve it.
pardon?
have you read my thoughts on bible prophecy yet, petrus4?
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 06:13:58 AM
who will enforce the laws? they will be pressured by groups that are already in place in society, to eradicate their competition, for the hearts and minds of the planet. so you'll have abrahamic religions vs. atheism, vs. buddhism vs. new ageism vs. everything else -ism. somebody is gonna get sent to the labor camp to do the jobs no one else wants to do in the name of society and social order. just exactly what stalin did. and he was the biggest mass murder in human history.
Who will enforce the three Laws? Those who care. And with the web, that can turn into millions pretty quickly if the crime is heinous enough.
If poor behavior choices are made and any of the three Laws are broken...it won't matter what ism You are.
And if Those who care see that You are a threat, You will be confined to a luxury estate somewhere and not be allowed to leave - taken out of social circulation.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 07:39:53 AM
pardon?
a} I did not mean
you individually, there.
b} I also actually went back and deleted that entire rant, because I recognised that it was counterproductive. I should have deleted it before I submitted the actual post.
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 25, 2012, 07:48:01 AM
Who will enforce the three Laws? Those who care. And with the web, that can turn into millions pretty quickly if the crime is heinous enough.
If poor behavior choices are made and any of the three Laws are broken...it won't matter what ism You are.
And if Those who care see that You are a threat, You will be confined to a luxury estate somewhere and not be allowed to leave - taken out of social circulation.
not acceptable. what if the person didn't do anything wrong but someone who knows how to hack the internet, makes them look guilty?
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 25, 2012, 07:48:01 AM
And if Those who care see that You are a threat, You will be confined to a luxury estate somewhere and not be allowed to leave - taken out of social circulation.
That has already pretty much been done in northern Europe; I remember the outrage expressed over photos of Breivik's accomodations. Americans, it seems, tend to believe more in stress positions, water boarding, and being held in solitary confinement in near caves, as a means of preventing re-offense, and inducing sound social and moral reform in criminal offenders. ;)
Quote from: petrus4 on September 25, 2012, 07:48:38 AM
a} I did not mean you individually, there.
b} I also actually went back and deleted that entire rant, because I recognised that it was counterproductive. I should have deleted it before I submitted the actual post.
yes but those are your actual thoughts. that's like so different than how i think of you and the other people here. it's like a shock to my brain when i see it cause it doesn't register fully on my logic circuits.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 07:53:19 AM
yes but those are your actual thoughts. that's like so different than how i think of you and the other people here. it's like a shock to my brain when i see it cause it doesn't register fully on my logic circuits.
Well, before you dismiss me as a total bigot, understand that I am feeling particularly sore due to edlogic's behaviour at the moment; it isn't actually due to you individually at all.
I'm just tired of the feeling that some of the things which are most valuable to me, are continually implied or thought of as being demonically evil; again, not by you, but by Christians I encountered on ATS; and even though the ones here are generally well-behaved, there have occasionally been hints of narrow mindedness among one or two others here, as well.
I do not want to believe in a universe which God is considered in control of in theory, but Satan is considered in control of in practice, Undo. I do not want to believe in a universe where extraterrestrials are unavoidably demonic by default. I am also very tired of the attitude, when looking at and trying to understand such things as the pyramids, which simply
do not make sense according to the contemporary mainstream view of reality, that it doesn't matter if we don't have answers concerning those things, because if something isn't explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it is supposedly Satanic anyway.
I want to believe in a universe which has love as its' motive force; and more, contrary to the opinion of many Christians, I actually believe that said universe
does exist. I want a scenario where we do have the ability to change the future for the better; and again, I think we actually can have that.
I don't want to, and I'm not going to, believe in an alleged scenario where humanity is unable to go further than the higher atmosphere of this planet, because supposedly as soon as we do, we are opposed by literal
demons flying around in UFOs, who demand that we go back; because supposedly our own planet is the one small part of this entire universe which Satan does not completely and totally rule. This is what some Christians I've seen on the Internet, actually believe.
It is sick, it is false, it is unnecessary, and I utterly reject it.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 07:51:18 AM
not acceptable. what if the person didn't do anything wrong but someone who knows how to hack the internet, makes them look guilty?
The open-sourced, unhackable internet... Well, that's where Personal Witness comes in.
To be frank, though I imagine it MIGHT happen that someOne would commit a crime and TRY to do that... The incidents of crime will be so uncommon that there will be an intense scrutiny and investigation by MANY who are disinterested but care.
And if You are perhaps trying to suggest that We should forgo the AP, because someOne might try to frame another - happens ALL the time now and FAR more frequently - by many orders of magnitude - than it would in the AP.
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 25, 2012, 03:13:08 AMWhen They're done, They post reviews to the web of Their experience, and if I'm good in bed, I earn social currency, and MORE guys contact Me. If I'm not so good, I may have to keep running ads. Who's doing the managements?
And how is this 'social currency' any different from money... which started out as social currency in the first place?
In Toronto several businesses set up a barter system. We were selling security systems so we would barter a home alarm to those in the system who needed one and they would return whatever service that they provided.
Works great on a small scale, but soon you end up with an imbalance. They was solved by keeping a note book of credits... so if you didn't need any more shows, but needed your car fixed, you could use that credit to do that.
In effect in the end the same thing happens that happened with money... that credit becomes a barter currency. he only advantage was it wasn't taxes and was under the radar.
Now we bartered goods that we had an abundance of and when we had idle time it was good for us to build that barter credit.
The problem comes when their is a missing link in the chain... what happens if there is no part supplier in that loop? Where do we then get replacement parts to continue to barter?
Your system could work fine on a small local level... it can NEVER work on a Global scale...
It would require setting back the clock to a simpler age... and that would NEVER fit into the program of the majority of people today
The example you used of sex for social currency... it has limits. Sooner or later you will reach saturation and then start to decline in production and eventually be cast aside for someone better.
What do you do then? Back to more welfare? And what use is social currency if you cannot spend it or trade it or whatever?
Sounds good on paper... works okay in small scale test scenarios... but the logistics of even trying to convert the current system would be a near if not impossible task
But for it to have ANY chance of success you need to provide an interim solution that is acceptable to all... because if you cannot tell people how they will survive during the transition without hardship, your plan will fall on deaf ears
I want to provide drugs; I put an ad out on the web and 10 People contact Me and I give Them drugs. They use them and report on the web about the quality of what I provided. If My drugs are good, I earn social status. If not, I may keep having to put out ads. (To be fair here, drug dealers are NOT drug dealers because They LOVE to deal drugs; They are drug dealers to make MONEY...) Who's doing the management?
I want to write religious books; it is My bliss. I spend all the time I want to, writing. I may even hunt the web for an editor... When I think a book is finished, I publish it... Who's doing the management?
I want to write subversive books... Hmmmm. What would One be subverting...? "Let's go back to most of Us living in poverty with a power "elite" taking the planet over; with millions of Us dying in starvation each year, with a debt-slavery system and being controlled through money! Here's how!" Ok, even presuming there is something to subvert, if One wants to write such, One can. One can even publish it. But readership - or at least anyOne willing to support the plan after reading... Those may be hard to come by. Still... Who's doing the managing?
Please! Give Me more things People LOVE to do. Or anything that needs doing. I will show You how there is no management at all.
Quote from: petrus4 on September 24, 2012, 03:29:57 AM
By saying that there seems to be little point, are you implying that you have not, in fact, really been harmed by what they have done?
But see? You are contradicting your own (Amy's) plan. She says that if you work for free and do good you will earn social currency and 'spotlight'
So yes I have been harmed greatly because those people have stolen my 'spotlight' and in fact there is no mention of me at all... so all my work and ME don't even exist.
So where is my BLISS? To sit and watch others get the 'spotlight' for what should be my joy to share? My bliss in creating the work?
Quite frankly then, if you deny me the justice of seeing that social currency or 'spotlight' which Amy says is all we get, then you are bring a hypocrite and have just given the answer why AP will never work
QuoteYes, but what is never really acknowledged, is the fact that money is really the core of the issue, isn't it?
No it's not. If it was money (in THIS case we are discussing) I would have gone the way of ATS with ads, tracking etc. What it IS about is my work being recognized as MY work, so that when I leave this world for the next, someone will remember I was here.
Plagiarism on the web robs me of that... If I cannot expect recognition for my work, then why should I even bother? Would I not be better off just saying; "Screw it all, let the sheep figure it out for themselves, I am going to sit on the beach and watch the sun go down"
You guys are trying to sell your program to us based on being able to do what we want. our BLISS... but if others take that away from you, then my Bliss would very quickly evolve to Anger. If it continues to not have a solution that returns mt Bliss it will evolve to Hatred and then to Action that will not be good.
In effect... just back to where we are today
QuoteIn other words, if we were not living in a scarcity based society, you would not need to use a monopoly on your own mental output, in order to generate income, in order to live. So if, at least mentally, we can take ourselves out of that scenario, then we can realise that, if living in such a scenario, it would not be an issue at all.[
That is the BIGGEST flaw with your system... you guys are like a broken record, stuck on that word "Money"
Sure people today need money to survive... so do I... My family and critter like to eat... we like to have a roof over our head and yes I can adapt to living in tents better than most of you combined and do it in comfort and style... but is it practical in 110 degree heat when your body can no longer compensate? No it's not
But money is not all that drives them. In fact on a list of things people will kill for it's not near the top of the list. Robbing them of what you call BLISS will cause a fight much faster than anything else. Will those three laws protect my Bliss? If so how are they any different than copyright laws today?
And if the system cannot protect my rights to be recognized for my work, then of what use is that system?
QuoteOur society does not actually reward the production or creation of abundance by the individual. It really rewards the regulation of scarcity. Look at the concept of the "Disney vault," as one example. Disney take steps to periodically increase the rarity of certain of their films, and by doing so, arbitrarily manipulate public demand for them.
So what? That is Disney's Bliss... do you deny them their Bliss because you want to copy their work for free?
QuoteAs a further result of this social structure, if you yourself wish to eat, you feel that you have no choice to but to also join the game, and engage in similar behaviour with your own creative work, in order to try to ensure paying demand for it.
Again you are a broken record and not dealing with reality. I have never said I want money for my work. If I did I would not have wasted 6 years being top poster at ATS giving them content that they get rich from, without even a cent in royalty
But during that time they protected my rights and my Bliss
If i need to eat I am perfectly capable of going out into the Nevada Desert and hunt deer, grouse or jack rabbit or dig up a Yucca root and pick some prickey pears. In fact I have a batch of those right now. Can catch some fish in the lake... so don't need money to eat
But if no one gives me credit for my work, then explain to me why I should continue wasting my time? If others can just take it for free and post it as their own... what is the point?
Get money out of your brain for just a moment and think about it logically
QuoteIf we were living in a society that was not organised in such a blatantly psychopathic manner, then while I could definitely understand anger over a lack of attribution, I myself at least would probably not be angry over the use of my own work, if attribution were given.
Well there you go you just admitted it yourself
" if attribution were given"
Plagiarism rarely if EVER gives attribution. They just take it and use it and most often profit from it and kick you to the curb. THAT is why it's called PIRACY :P
I just did a google search today for something I had on my site and figured it would be faster to find that way. What happened was I found three major websites that had the work on their site and came up first in google ratings, with NO mention of me or Pegasus as the source... and My site, the point of origin? Didn't even show up in the list.
And in one case from a previous search, one site had the audacity to not only steal the work and pawn it off as their own, but to hotlink to my site for the images, thereby stealing my paid for bandwidth to boot
You may be okay with this action... but let me tell you one thing. If this is the way your plan works, count me (and millions of others) out :P
That is vindictive. I do not consider such justifiable; and more to the point, my own karmic profile does not allow me to get away with such, even at such times as I am tempted to engage in such behaviour. If you have the luxury of being able to get away with such acts, then consider yourself fortunate; although it is a perverse kind of good fortune; and your attitude here is also in conflict with what you go on to say about doing no harm, in the remainder of the quoted post.
Which is it? Do you consistently do no harm, or do you curse people in retaliation for behaviour which you consider wrongful, and then consider yourself justified?
[/quote]
Quote from: zorgon on September 25, 2012, 10:04:57 AM
And how is this 'social currency' any different from money... which started out as social currency in the first place?
There is no way for a few to control the many. There is no starvation and dying of thirst for lack of currency. There is no material poverty. There is no motive to hide cures and innovations. There is no way to steal it. There is no motive to defraud. ...
And money did NOT start as social currency. Meaningful energy expended in energy scarcity was the beginning of physical exchange: I'll give You what My meaningful energy expended produced for what Your meaningful energy expended produced.
QuoteIn Toronto several businesses set up a barter system. We were selling security systems so we would barter a home alarm to those in the system who needed one and they would return whatever service that they provided.
As I have said before, when I say "money," I mean ALL exchange: barter, trade, work exchange, shells, beads, coins, bills, checks, electronic funds. So bringing in an exchange example for illustration is moot.
QuoteYour system could work fine on a small local level... it can NEVER work on a Global scale...
You are only saying that because You are still approaching it from that scarcity paradigm which requires accounting for the energy expended.
QuoteIt would require setting back the clock to a simpler age... and that would NEVER fit into the program of the majority of people today
No, it would not. 100% of the cost of anything is energy. Remove the cost of energy and everything is free. You are still stuck in the (energy) scarcity paradigm.
QuoteThe example you used of sex for social currency... it has limits. Sooner or later you will reach saturation and then start to decline in production and eventually be cast aside for someone better.
Huh? I have no idea what You're trying to illustrate here...
QuoteWhat do you do then? Back to more welfare? And what use is social currency if you cannot spend it or trade it or whatever?
No need for welfare once the cost of energy is removed. No need to exchange for good food, appropriate clothing, comfortable housing and transportation anywhere.
QuoteSounds good on paper... works okay in small scale test scenarios... but the logistics of even trying to convert the current system would be a near if not impossible task
Again, You assume a need to exchange. There is none in the abundance paradigm.
QuoteBut for it to have ANY chance of success you need to provide an interim solution that is acceptable to all... because if you cannot tell people how they will survive during the transition without hardship, your plan will fall on deaf ears
[sigh] We are DOING the "interim solution" NOW. All We need to do is add free energy, promote it and spend missile money on implementing it and as the cost of energy is removed, things become cheaper and cheaper until they're free.
Quote from: undo11 on September 25, 2012, 06:28:47 AM
...don't tell me that the first people that would be forced to go do those jobs no one else wants to...
No One will be forced to do anything but follow the three Laws. Those jobs no one wants to do will be done by ROBOTS.
Quote from: zorgon on September 25, 2012, 10:44:03 AM
But see? You are contradicting your own (Amy's) plan. She says that if you work for free and do good you will earn social currency and 'spotlight'
No... I am saying that if You work at YOUR BLISS and do well...You will earn social currency. And if You do not do well...You have spent Your time in bliss.
QuoteSo yes I have been harmed greatly because those people have stolen my 'spotlight' and in fact there is no mention of me at all... so all my work and ME don't even exist.
This will be radically reduced in T.A.P. You will have Personal Witness to prove Your work, there will be negative social currency for trying to claim Others' work, and little motive to do so.
QuoteSo where is my BLISS? To sit and watch others get the 'spotlight' for what should be my joy to share? My bliss in creating the work?
In this money motivated society, You are limited in time spent in Your bliss. In T.A.P., ALL Your time can be spent as You would like.
QuoteQuite frankly then, if you deny me the justice of seeing that social currency or 'spotlight' which Amy says is all we get, then you are bring a hypocrite and have just given the answer why AP will never work
You will not be denied in T.A.P.
QuoteYou guys are trying to sell your program to us based on being able to do what we want. our BLISS... but if others take that away from you, then my Bliss would very quickly evolve to Anger. If it continues to not have a solution that returns mt Bliss it will evolve to Hatred and then to Action that will not be good.
Others will not take Your work in T.A.P.
QuoteIn effect... just back to where we are today
Not at all.
QuoteThat is the BIGGEST flaw with your system... you guys are like a broken record, stuck on that word "Money"
No. You are stuck in the scarcity paradigm.
Quote from: zorgon on September 25, 2012, 10:44:03 AM
If i need to eat I am perfectly capable of going out into the Nevada Desert and hunt deer, grouse or jack rabbit or dig up a Yucca root and pick some prickey pears. In fact I have a batch of those right now. Can catch some fish in the lake... so don't need money to eat
Great. If you realise that, you're ahead of the curve, relative to most people. :D
QuoteBut if no one gives me credit for my work, then explain to me why I should continue wasting my time? If others can just take it for free and post it as their own... what is the point?
It might surprise you, but we are in full agreement, here. Ego gratification has been one of the guiding forces of virtually every gift economy on record, at least that I've read about. You probably about the Native American concept of the potlatch, where those who were considered wealthy tried to outdo each other not in terms of the amount that they had, but the amount that they tried to give away.
So absolutely, I insist on the right of attribution, 100%. The license I've used for pretty much anything I've done in the past, has been the BSD license; I'll quote the relevant parts for you.
QuoteCopyright (c) <YEAR>, <OWNER>
All rights reserved.
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
I am not, as I have perhaps said, an advocate of copyright; in my own case, the copyright statement is left there primarily as a place to put
my name. Hence, the preservation of my name being attached to my work, is one of the legal conditions of anyone using my material, under this license.
If you have not done so in the past, I would suggest using something similar to this, and keeping a record of your having done so; and that way, if someone does plagiarise your work, you have the means of contesting said plagiarism.
I will, however, also make another point here; and that is to answer your question about why you should bother to do something at all, if it is simply going to be plagiarised. While ego gratification is an important secondary motivation, (and can actually be applied for positive ends, if it is done appropriately) the real definition of someone's passion, at least in my own mind, is something that is done for reasons that go beyond said ego gratification. In other words, it's something you'd do whether you were going to receive public adulation for it after the fact or not, simply because of the degree of joy you derive from it
at the time.Nobody will ever see what I have built in Minecraft, as one example. Very few people, if any, will ever see the scripting work I did while using FreeBSD. Most of my time as a Hunter within World of Warcraft was spent alone, as well. Yet I would happily spend every last second I invested in all of those activities, all over again, regardless of the lack of public exposure, simply because of the degree of happiness that they provided
me.So while, yes, plagiarism would upset me, and I still consider avoiding it important, it ultimately would not prevent me from engaging in an activity which was truly emotionally gratifying to me, purely for its' own sake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqav3L5_0O4
As one other point; Amy, do you know about NESARA? I only found out about it myself a few days ago.
Sounds familiar.... Links...?
http://nesara.org/main/index.htm
NESARA OR THE ABUNDANCE PROGRAM (http://the2012scenario.com/nesara-or-the-abundance-program/)
Thanks, Thor. I emailed them... [grin]
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 25, 2012, 05:26:10 PM
Those jobs no one wants to do will be done by ROBOTS.
ROBOTS :o
Well bring em ON baby!!! I got my BLISS right here...
EMP cannon... take those suckers right out with one shot :D
(http://www.amazing1.com/Graphics/empbg10.jpg)
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 25, 2012, 05:12:28 PM
[sigh] We are DOING the "interim solution" NOW.
How? Raising 'awareness' is not a solution. How will you feed clothe and house people until your utopia is reached?
QuoteAll We need to do is add free energy,
Well there is the hitch right there... there is no such thing as free energy. You have been duped.
It is true that energy is abundant all over the multiverse, but harnessing it, distributing it in a convenient way and using it are NOT free, no matter how your try to frame it :D
Quote from: zorgon on September 25, 2012, 11:42:59 PM
How? Raising 'awareness' is not a solution. How will you feed clothe and house people until your utopia is reached?
Did not say *I* was doing it. I said WE were doing it. Soup kitchens, Salvation Armies, charity orgs, welfare, e&t&c.
QuoteWell there is the hitch right there... there is no such thing as free energy. You have been duped.
It is true that energy is abundant all over the multiverse, but harnessing it, distributing it in a convenient way and using it are NOT free, no matter how your try to frame it :D
Initially, true. But... Once the cost of the energy to build the machines (local access - like in Your home, in the factories, in the farm equip., etc.) and distributing them, the cost of building & distributing AND using will be FREE!
undo -
You asked if I think this will work.
Truthfully I do not know.
And frankly I am skeptical.
However...
I also see it as I would being present at the first Wright brothers test flight where everyone was skeptical.
It has never been done before, and it is unknown if it even CAN be done, and the odds don't look good.
Sure looks worth a shot and a few crash landings to see if it COULD work though.
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 26, 2012, 01:34:18 AM
Did not say *I* was doing it. I said WE were doing it. Soup kitchens, Salvation Armies, charity orgs, welfare, e&t&c.
Noble indeed to help those in need... ;D
Well that works fine for the homeless, but I am not ready to give up my house and live in shelters and eat in soup kitchens... and neither will the rest of those in the working and middle class, the main target audience.
If it came down to that I will take my tent city on the road and set up camp somewhere comfortable... maybe a benevolent farmer will have a spot of land not in use in trade for work :D And I have room for 60 in that city... more if they bring their own tent :D
But I like my creature comforts :P
It's the interim getting from here...
QuoteInitially, true. But...
to here...
Quoteusing will be FREE!
that is the problem ;)
Quote from: zorgon on September 27, 2012, 08:25:58 AM
Noble indeed to help those in need... ;D
Well that works fine for the homeless, but I am not ready to give up my house and live in shelters and eat in soup kitchens... and neither will the rest of those in the working and middle class, the main target audience.
If it came down to that I will take my tent city on the road and set up camp somewhere comfortable... maybe a benevolent farmer will have a spot of land not in use in trade for work :D And I have room for 60 in that city... more if they bring their own tent :D
But I like my creature comforts :P
It's the interim getting from here...
to here...
that is the problem ;)
z, We continue as We have been except that We add free energy and promote it and finance it from government. Somehow We will get there, as We somehow are getting from yesterday to today to tomorrow. Add the free energy, and step by step, the cost of energy will be removed. Nothing much changes except in how much One has to pay for things. Today this costs $20; tomorrow $15. A week or a month or a year... Zero. And that includes robots to remove the need for Humans to do things They don't WANT to do.
You seem to think that in order to have T.A.P., We need to do something differently outside of providing the means to have free energy. We don't.