I am out to make a difference. I am out to make it so that every Person affiliated with the oil industry can live more richly than if They worked to retirement and were living off whatever They managed to save, affording up to what it would allow. If They wanted to.
Think about that for a moment. Every Person working in the gas stations, in trucking, taxiing, and other transportation...and the echelons of office workers in the corporate pyramids... Every person in machine shops, from garages to car lots. Every Person in plastics sales...and manufacturing. Every Person in those board rooms... All could choose to live more richly than if They retired with full benefits. And They won't have to wait for retirement.
But not only the People affiliated with the oil industry, the People affiliated with insurance, too.
• And food production.
• And aerospace.
• And the fashion industry.
• And banking.
• And advertising.
• And sales.
• And schools.
• And entertainment.
• And sports.
• And charity
• And government.
• And the impoverished.
What does that mean, "live more richly?" It means that We all could live as if retired with an unlimited bank account. Do everything We dreamed of doing, have what We dreamed of having, back when We truly believed that all We had to do was work hard and at 65, We could live as WE wanted. It is The Abundance Paradigm.
This course is for the purpose of showing You how We can get there from here.
T.A.P., You're It
A three hour course on The Abundance Paradigm (T.A.P.)
Instructor: Amaterasu Solar
Date:
Time:
Place:
In this course 3 hour course, Amaterasu will discuss:
- Planetary resources
- Robotics and other technology
- Energy/Power/Money relationships
- Free energy = no need for money
- Complications (structural impedances in social systems)
- Governance vs. government
- The Betterment Ethic vs. the work "ethic"
- The tipping point of awareness
- Consciously choosing
- Choices
With science and sociology applied, it is possible to radically change this world for the better. There are hurdles to clear in making the change, but in this course, those hurdles are addressed and a solution to each is given.
This course will not only give You a chance to see things from The Abundance Paradigm, but give You the tools to help Others understand it as well.
The course is offered freely; any donation You choose to make will be accepted afterwards.
?
am interested. how, when, n where?
T.A.P., You're It
The Abundance Paradigm (T.A.P.) syllabus
Planetary Resources1. Food.......a. We throw away enough to feed all of Us
.............i. Distributing by profit and not need
.......b. Organic farming produces better yields
.......c. Paying farmers to NOT grow crops – plenty of land
.......d. New extra-high yield techniques
2. Clothing.......a. Textiles are abundant
.......b. If made to last, clothing could be shared and passed on
.......c. "Fashion" is a system institution to keep money flowing
3. Shelter.......a. Options are available for Us all; money keeps Us from providing
..............i. Rock, wood, hemp, earth, recycling
.......b. One Human to ¼ acre won't fill up Australia
..............i. Australia is four percent (4%) of land mass excluding Antarctica
.......c. Volume of Humans would not fill a side canyon of the Grand Canyon
.......d. There's enough space in Texas to give every one of Us 1500 sq ft
.......e. Statistically speaking, Humans don't exist on this planet
4. Water.......a. Dean Kamen's (Segway fame) water purification device makes any water potable
.......b. Money to provide energy for purification lacking in most areas of the world
.......c. World surface is mostly water – plenty available
Robotics and Other Technologies1. Present robotics is capable of doing all necessary functions outside of emergencies.......a. Farming
.......b. Manufacturing
.......c. Cleaning and maintenance
.......d. Supplying
.......e. Diagnostics
2. The Interweb is now connecting virtually the whole planet.......a. Problems can be communicated immediately
.......b. Solutions can be found worldwide
.......c. Governance and judicial functions can be handled via the web
3. Personal cameras are becoming the norm – We can record Our personal perspective, to which We have inalienable rights, as Our Witness4. Data storage is expanding by leaps and bounds – Our whole lives will be possible to record5. Open-source program all public works.......a. Allows All to work on betterment
.......b. Ensures clean code
.......c. No "back doors"
Energy/Power/Money relationships1. The basis of money is an exchange of meaningful energy expended.......a. The first hunter, gatherer, fisher, farmer, miner used and collected free resources
.......b. The meaningful energy expended was what was bartered, traded, work-exchanged for, though the products were (erroneously) seen as having the value
.......c. Money as We know it is merely a convenient "place holder" for when Some have what Others want but the Others have nothing those Some want
.......d. Money, therefore, merely accounts for meaningful energy expended
.......e. A paycheck is an accounting of the meaningful energy One expended
2. Power over Others is a function of money and charisma.......a. With money, controlling behavior is made possible
.......b. Charisma is social power and usually makes positive impact
3. With energy as a basis for money, money/power (over Others)/energy can be seen as three forms of the same thing, like ice/water/steamFree energy = no need for money
1. Adding free energy removes the cost of energy all down the line, and in the end, the resources are free
2. Adding robots to do any necessary work no One WANTS to do removes the cost of Human energy.......a. No need to pay robots
.......b. Humans will do work They WANT to do for mere social currency
..............i. Appreciation
..............ii. Lauds
..............iii. Thanks
..............iv. Gratitude
..............v. Reputation
..............vi. Recognition
..............vii. Self-satisfaction
3. We all have avocations – things We do because We want to do them and not because We will get money – these will become Our vocations for social currency
4. Free energy technologies exist and have been suppressed for 50-100 yearsComplications (structural impedances in social systems)
1. Money systems – impedes abundance
2. Legal systems – impedes freedoms
3. Charity systems – impedes concepts of All being deserving
4. Punitive systems – impedes freedoms
5. Educational systems – impedes information flow
6. Governmental systems – impedes local choices
7. Military systems – impedes peaceGovernance vs. government1. Etymology of "government" is "control mind"
2. Governments all place control in the hands of the few, even a democratic government
3. Governance is an agreed upon system whereby no few are in control; All may participate
4. Stigmergic governance via the web is possible now.......a. Stigmergy is emergent structure based in societal behavior
.......b. Linux is a prime example of stigmergy
.......c. Three Laws are all the Laws there are
.......d. Those that care participate in resolving any issue
.......e. Punitive justice can be meted out by those who care within the three Laws
The Betterment Ethic vs. the work "ethic"1. The work "ethic" is a slave's ideal – expend Your Human energy to the enrichment of Others
2. Instill a Betterment Ethic and, with profit removed as a motive, We will seek betterment
The tipping point of awareness
1. Once 10% of Us are aware of something, We all seem to have the awareness – this is the tipping point
2. Awareness can rapidly spread via the Interweb
3. The more that choose to spread awareness, the faster it will spreadConsciously choosing1. As a group, Humans can consciously choose any change – as long as awareness has reached the tipping point
2. With a plan, Humans on this planet can create heaven on Earth
Choices1. We can choose to spread awareness of a plan for the planet
2. We can choose to implement the plan
3. We can create heaven here on Earth for all Humans
4. Keep it in ConsciousnessThe Plan1. Spread awareness of the plan to the tipping point
2. Release free energy technologies.......a. Industry
.......b. Agriculture
.......c. Transportation
.......d. Homes
3. Invest in replacing old energy sources with free energy
4. Invest in replacing Humans with robots in all necessary functions no One wants to do
5. Spread the ideas of:.......a. Personal Witness
.......b. Open-source programming for all public works
.......c. The Betterment Ethic
.......d. Following Our bliss, and teaching Our children to find Theirs
.......e. Organic farming only – eradicate GMO
.......f. Stigmergic governance
..............i. Set up a central website
..............ii. Local, regional, continental, planetary levels
..............iii. Social responsibility is spending 15 minutes or more a day checking the site and adding input when One sees a problem or solution
.......g. If We choose, We can release Humanity from slavery, hunger, poverty, oppression, profit motive
Your mind has been touched, Your awareness raised. Now You must choose... T.A.P., You're it.
Notes:What of the People who love power? This is a question I have been asked, relative to T.A.P. I ask, what of Them? I do not discount the influence of charisma, but most of the Ones that rise to power in the scarcity paradigm have money behind Them.
Let Us consider a power-hungry and evil Person in a Society that judges Those They meet based on the three Laws. If this Person has no other bliss, and can offer Others nothing but this Person's ideas to motivate Them to help with the plans – You can't have power over Others without having "minions," otherwise You become a "lone gunman" and We take You out of social circulation – that Person had better have some amazing charisma. And until You have a decent sized base, You are, at most, a gang, and too many waves made will cause Us to take the gang out of social circulation.
Today, We judge Others by "laws" artificially and frequently non-ethically decreed. Profit motive and political connections lead to "laws" that are created for special interests. And because "laws," once enacted, just stay unless We see radical issues and move to remove the "laws" – like Prohibition of alcohol – they stay on "the books," We have millions of "laws" and cannot truly judge others except by the "laws" as We think We know them, or rather, by "laws" as We think they should be. Many of the "laws" contradict each other, and there is no way any of Us can know them all.
What We see, therefore, is intrusion, curtailing of liberty, inconsistency, and limited ethical judgment.
You can think and believe whatever You want, but it is by Your choice of behavior You create, and so how You choose to behave will be the measure by which You are judged. If Some don't like Your choice of behavior, don't spend time with Them. If You are not fond of anOther's behavior, don't spend time with Them – and if the behavior breaks any of the three Laws, You (and any Others who care) may remove the One choosing poor behavior from social circulation.
Of course, as Accuser, You will be held to the same three Laws relative to the accusation, and Many who care may not take Your side. So always choose Your behavior wisely.
(more notes may be added in the future)
Quote from: variance on September 19, 2012, 09:50:02 PM
am interested. how, when, n where?
I am working on that. [smile]
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 19, 2012, 09:57:34 PM
I am working on that. [smile]
Have you thought about an online course?
I have, ArMaP. But first I need to play a venue and videotape it , preferably from several angles. That way, I can edit it, enhance it and then then offer a polished piece.
I'm much better when I have a true audience. [smile]
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 19, 2012, 09:57:34 PM
I am working on that. [smile]
super cool. looking forward to it.
and look, i found the quote button; it's much easier. would not have known if you hadn't given me the tip. thank u!
Most welcome, v. [smile]
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 20, 2012, 02:30:05 AM
...and We take You out of social circulation
...too many waves made will cause Us to take the gang out of social circulation.
...and if the behavior breaks any of the three Laws, You (and any Others who care) may remove the One choosing poor behavior from social circulation.
"...take You out of social circulation"
What exactly does that mean?
Amy, Im so happy to see that youve made progress in your selfless quest! I missed having you around, but it seems you have made the best of your time, locking in a firm lesson plan and making the AP accesible to all.
To do a lecture on dvd or youtube is imperative, and you certainly have the passion to make it very appealing to all!
Damn, Im so proud of you!!!!!
I hope you can get the next phase lined up, and make the move..theres no stopping now!
And yes taking those violators out of social circulation is quite interesting...might make a few wake up and think about their actions, eh.?
So excellent to see you returning to glory, amiga!
Cheers!
Dave
Quote from: zorgon on September 20, 2012, 02:53:00 AM
"...take You out of social circulation"
What exactly does that mean?
A comfy, lavish, even, house that You can't leave. [shrug]
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 20, 2012, 04:06:30 AM
A comfy, lavish, even, house that You can't leave. [shrug]
Like the graybar hotel?
LOL!
Le
Something on that order. [grin]
Quote from: Amaterasu on September 19, 2012, 09:57:34 PM
I am working on that. [smile]
Get the curriculum fleshed out enough, and we could start getting people giving talks about this, Amy. I've often thought that the permaculture model could well be applied to your ideas, in terms of creating certification for people who can then do workshops and get people thinking.
If I can get the whole videotaped, I can release it on the web. I have a PowerPoint thing that goes with it, and really, what I have here is the framework. The stuff I would add is merely illustrational as opposed to added necessary info.
So anyOne is welcome to use this framework and illustrate with Their own pieces - or ask Me what I might add for that purpose...or wait until I have the tape out. [smile]
Quote2. Governments all place control in the hands of the few, even a democratic government
All too true.
That's fine if you have a 'good president' but if you had a 'bad' president, he can undo in a single term what the last 3 'good' ones did.
America had only 2 really great presidents, Lincoln & Kennedy.
Look what happened to them... ::)
Quote4. Stigmergic governance via the web is possible now
I would hope so, but i suspect there will be endless bickering over the 'hacking' of votes, and also many attempts to sway the voters with disinfo tactics & so on. much like there is now.
Transparency is a key issue here, maybe we can go somewhere with it...
QuoteThree Laws are all the Laws there are
..I still think it will be 4 laws, but i digress...
The Plan?
Love it, it's no more or less than i could think of for a better way for humans to live. Cool.
People who love power, well i guess we are always going to have them, it's something that we will have to unlearn, given time.
Of course you are always going to have 'natural leaders', those with the charisma & sheer determination to get things done. These people are key figures in the transition, we need them all to be involved, despite whatever plans they have for themselves.
This is all something that we all (or at least the majority of us) would have to agree on, berfore we can go further.
Maybe it's not unreasonable to assume that 10% of us agree on a Planetary Reform or whatever you want to call it, and that the rest (for want of a better option) will follow along..
I'm hoping we get even that far :)
A video? Hell, yes, brilliant!
Maybe we could host an internet radio show with phone-ins etc, Dave & me had something in mind a while back.
I would love to do that, i need a new website anyway since 'brainstorm' went down the tubes (long story).I think it's time to try a Podcast on Itunes ;)
Here's to the future!
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 29, 2012, 06:32:37 PM
I would hope so, but i suspect there will be endless bickering over the 'hacking' of votes, and also many attempts to sway the voters with disinfo tactics & so on. much like there is now.
Transparency is a key issue here, maybe we can go somewhere with it...
In TAP, unlikely there will be any power in disinfo - take a look at Gaza, for instance. Israel tried to spread disinfo, making Themselves out to be the "victim." But the truth reigned on Twitter and Facebook, and most were not duped by this, calling for ceasefire. There was not much support for Hamas, but LOTS of support for the Palestinian People.
So yes, Individuals may TRY to spread disinfo, but most will see the truth - and the disinfo spreader will only earn demerits and become pariah.
QuoteThe Plan?
Love it, it's no more or less than i could think of for a better way for humans to live. Cool.
People who love power, well i guess we are always going to have them, it's something that we will have to unlearn, given time.
No One will have power over Others - regardless of how much They WANT it. In turn, though, We will all have autonomous power over Self. Glad You see value in the plan. [smile]
QuoteOf course you are always going to have 'natural leaders', those with the charisma & sheer determination to get things done. These people are key figures in the transition, we need them all to be involved, despite whatever plans they have for themselves.
These natural leaders will emerge, with different Ones for different problems. But all solving of problems will be for the Betterment, else few will follow a malicious leader.
QuoteThis is all something that we all (or at least the majority of us) would have to agree on, berfore we can go further.
Yes and no. We can release FE and We will be moved to build robots as the cost of energy is removed from things down the line. What would be best is to have the societal framework in place, I agree. That is why I wrote The End of Entropy, to seed the ideas prior to the FE release, giving Humanity a foundation in the post-scarcity world.
QuoteMaybe it's not unreasonable to assume that 10% of us agree on a Planetary Reform or whatever you want to call it, and that the rest (for want of a better option) will follow along..
I'm hoping we get even that far :)
10% is all it takes. The tipping point is about 10%...
QuoteA video? Hell, yes, brilliant!
Maybe we could host an internet radio show with phone-ins etc, Dave & me had something in mind a while back.
I would love to do that, i need a new website anyway since 'brainstorm' went down the tubes (long story).I think it's time to try a Podcast on Itunes ;)
Here's to the future!
If I can get a PC-friendly camera and editing software, I can create the vid. Someday it will happen. [smile]
Quote from: undo11 on November 29, 2012, 09:07:16 PM
when the communists started using race as a card that could destroy whole societies and governments, they didn't consider that it might come back and bite them on the arse. they knew people were inherently racist, and that it would take alot to make them non-racist, and as a result, would be incredibly easy to screw up whole countries, racial groups and guarantee genocidal behavior if necessary.
what they didn't foresee, apparently, is that in addition to being inherently racist, we are also pretty much incapable of forgiveness, only temporary truces that are easily erased due to inherent racism. any attempt to stop it now, will be like spitting in the wind.
the people who started this thing rolling, almost single handedly provided the mechanism to destroy the planet's inhabitants, including their own descendants.
Brilliant Post mate ;)
Although I don't myself go into the whole political aspect so much....
What you say really illustrates what I try and convey regarding the Ori... and how something went really bad in the past which to this day still plays on us whether good or bad???
Here in Oz we have this continual debate about "Boat People". It was tired when it started years ago and more tired now considering Oz willingly signed up to accept so many refugees per year. The Politicks brand these people depending who is losing the ratings as cheaters from time to time which then sets that thought in motion.
I want Lasers to eradicate this crap ;)
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 29, 2012, 07:47:46 PM...
If I can get a PC-friendly camera and editing software, I can create the vid. Someday it will happen. [smile]
Greetings:
Will a Galaxy III be considered as PC-friendly?
There is a plethora of editing software - even some FREE - what is your preference?
BTW, is the '3-hour' number an educated guess or a real number?
Go get'em, girl. :-*
Peace Love Light
tfw (http://serve.mysmiley.net/animals/animal0028.gif) (//http://)
Liberty & Equality or Revolution
Quote from: undo11 on November 29, 2012, 08:31:32 PM
false accusations. lying. deliberately setting up the other person because of their race, so that they end up on some horrible work program that no one else wants to do and robots can't do. the same thing that has plagued the human race for thousands of years. in other words, same bat time, same bat channel.
Give Me a scenario where One would deliberately set anOther up in TAP... Give Me an example of a "horrible work program that no one else wants to do and robots can't do." You are not explaining how these things would happen.
Yes, there may be some false accusations made - but less frequently than before - and with Personal Witness (read the novella first link at the bottom of The End of Entropy) seldom will accusations stick - and make any who bear false witness pariah.
Quote from: Somamech on November 29, 2012, 09:37:38 PM
What you say really illustrates what I try and convey regarding the Ori... and how something went really bad in the past which to this day still plays on us whether good or bad???
Here in Oz we have this continual debate about "Boat People". It was tired when it started years ago and more tired now considering Oz willingly signed up to accept so many refugees per year. The Politicks brand these people depending who is losing the ratings as cheaters from time to time which then sets that thought in motion.
I want Lasers to eradicate this crap ;)
These "boat People..." What would happen if They could just choose to move somewhere else, order Their desires on computers They can have for free (delivered by robots), and live in Their community... Do You think there would be the problems We see today?
Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 29, 2012, 10:12:49 PM
Greetings:
Will a Galaxy III be considered as PC-friendly?
No clue. [smile] Will it DL the files to a computer?
QuoteThere is a plethora of editing software - even some FREE - what is your preference?
I'm most familiar with After Effects, but am sure I can operate most any editing software.
QuoteBTW, is the '3-hour' number an educated guess or a real number?
In vid it will be less - I left time for Q&A... Not sure how long the actual presentation is, as I have not "delivered" it except in My head - so that is an appx. Likely to actually be shorter.
QuoteGo get'em, girl. :-*
Ain't nothin' gonna stop Me. [smile]
The lack of equal education in our societies causes contamination of races and classes. = Equal Education should be free to all.
Everyone is part of a race, class, gender and was raised with certain beliefs as to who they are according to thier race, class, gender. These paradigms breed hate and lies which cause an unequal playing field for all. Grudges amongst all these catagories have lasted for thousands of years.
In order to work together, there would have to be some major changes. In many ways, it seems that history itself being taught to new generations gives rebirth to these problems over and over again.
When we're born we're innocent to these things, they are indoctrinated into us.
( Oh and HELLO to all! :D )
captain dave
hi! :)
Quoteit won't work, even though it's a great idea, it just won't. at least, not for "white people."
It will work for
all of us or it won't work at all.
I don't think any 'ism' is so strong that people don't realise that.
This has to be the fundamental message in TAP that will forestall any arguments on race or religion in the Plan.
We are all in this sh*t together
okay, i removed the disruptive posts. i thought, for some reason, we were still discussing if the idea could work.
You're cool, Undo :)
For me, it's way past the 'if' stage, it HAS to work, if we are to avoid being slaves forever.
Maybe TAP isnt THE solution, but it's a darned sight better than the system we have now, & human relations will sometimes be put to the test, just as with any great change.
I'm not good at communicating with fellow humans, believe it or not, but i TRY.
If we all try to make the world a better place, irrespective of our personal views, then it has a much better chance.
"Think the world better" is a phrase i got from somewhere.
OK this may sound like sentimenal tree-hugging hippy optimism, but i couldn't care less, as long as it's a system based on morals like love, respect, & a general consent that by helping others, you are helping yourself.
Now, if a 5 year old can understand that, why can't our great leaders??
In any case, i'm not suited to politics, i'm off to play with some machines ::)
Quote from: Captain Dave on November 30, 2012, 06:00:49 AM
The lack of equal education in our societies causes contamination of races and classes. = Equal Education should be free to all.
Everyone is part of a race, class, gender and was raised with certain beliefs as to who they are according to thier race, class, gender. These paradigms breed hate and lies which cause an unequal playing field for all. Grudges amongst all these catagories have lasted for thousands of years.
In order to work together, there would have to be some major changes. In many ways, it seems that history itself being taught to new generations gives rebirth to these problems over and over again.
When we're born we're innocent to these things, they are indoctrinated into us.
( Oh and HELLO to all! :D )
Funny thing is there, is that the ones getting the "premium" education, are the ones following the dogmas of the last six millenia.
College breeds the idiotic perpetuation...the new generation riding the wave of sickness behind their insane parents.
Perpetuating the trained parrot mentality with their insane agendas, from the original Tower of Babel event.
Raaawwk, lets use money.
Raaawwk, lets form governments.
Raaawwk, lets control the citizens with poison foods and products.
Raaawwk, follow this ridiculous insane religion.
So, we as humans pick up the poo from the parrots..just like we do for our beloved doggies.
I guess we really are the serfs here.
Parrot Serfs.
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 30, 2012, 02:25:00 AM
These "boat People..." What would happen if They could just choose to move somewhere else, order Their desires on computers They can have for free (delivered by robots), and live in Their community... Do You think there would be the problems We see today?
Well According to an expert in the field 90% of people who joy ride on rather rickety boats are genuine refugee's who are in serious danger of being killed. On the flip side the same expert also said that only 20% of people claiming Refugee Status who enter the country via Biz Visa's and Holiday Visa's are genuine. The latter seem to be the people rorting the system because they have money to do so ;)
Strangely I watched 2012 tonight for a second time and saw the end scene which I missed the first time around. The ending scene where the Dr took control over the ruthless prick of a politician really shone to me. as a good lesson into how selfish hoomans are when it comes to SHTF scenarios and how awesome they can be.
So a refugee in a boat that would not even qualify for water worthy status escaping the likes of nutters in the middle east is more likely than not to be a pretty decent citizen :D
QuoteFunny thing is there, is that the ones getting the "premium" education, are the ones following the dogmas of the last six millenia.
College breeds the idiotic perpetuation...the new generation riding the wave of sickness behind their insane parents.
Darn right there.
I guess i had what you may call a 'premium' education, i went to a very select school, went through the whole class/race/caste thing.
But we were also taught to think for ourselves, think freely & so on, hardly the norm for schools of that type, and i NEVER listened to my parents ;)
The problem was, all the kids in that school were super smart, we didn't accept the BS being peddled in the state schools, & they knew it.
So they kept us busy with all kinds of activities, mostly technical challenges....
I can understand refugees, i fled my own country years ago because i got fed up with the system.
I had a choice, i wasn't going to be killed if i stayed (well maybe, London is a pretty dangerous place to live) but i decided to leave.
Most of us don't have a choice at all, or do we?
The chinese masters tell us that there is
always a choice something i still adhere to.
Quote from: Captain Dave on November 30, 2012, 06:00:49 AM
The lack of equal education in our societies causes contamination of races and classes. = Equal Education should be free to all.
Everyone is part of a race, class, gender and was raised with certain beliefs as to who they are according to thier race, class, gender. These paradigms breed hate and lies which cause an unequal playing field for all. Grudges amongst all these catagories have lasted for thousands of years.
In order to work together, there would have to be some major changes. In many ways, it seems that history itself being taught to new generations gives rebirth to these problems over and over again.
When we're born we're innocent to these things, they are indoctrinated into us.
( Oh and HELLO to all! :D )
Welcome back, Dave. There has been a faction throughout history that has used the differences to divide and conquer, frequently basing the propaganda on the idea that Others will take from One. In abundance, not only is such propaganda difficult if not impossible to spread, but no One will feel threatened in Their livelihoods and resources.
ama
you can't state, categorically, that you will be able to control the outcome, once it is set in motion, particularly since you'll need a justice system and as you know, human justice systems are abused constantly and have been since the dawn of human civs. i agree your concept will remove quite a bit of that, theoretically, the problem is, the guys who are already in control of the show, don't want people to have freedom of choice, only the illusion of freedom of choice and even that is occassionally removed, just to keep the herd afraid and under control.
i really like your idea, but i don't think it behooves you or the idea, to suggest anyone who disagrees about any tiny part of it, is automatically bad.
Quote from: Somamech on November 30, 2012, 06:51:39 PM
Well According to an expert in the field 90% of people who joy ride on rather rickety boats are genuine refugee's who are in serious danger of being killed. On the flip side the same expert also said that only 20% of people claiming Refugee Status who enter the country via Biz Visa's and Holiday Visa's are genuine. The latter seem to be the people rorting the system because they have money to do so ;)
Strangely I watched 2012 tonight for a second time and saw the end scene which I missed the first time around. The ending scene where the Dr took control over the ruthless prick of a politician really shone to me. as a good lesson into how selfish hoomans are when it comes to SHTF scenarios and how awesome they can be.
So a refugee in a boat that would not even qualify for water worthy status escaping the likes of nutters in the middle east is more likely than not to be a pretty decent citizen :D
Irrespective of Their "goodness," if They lived in TAP, They would NOT be an issue to anyOne. They could find a place on Earth or in the sky to set up Their community, and no One would care that They are there. They are no skin off anyOne else's nose.
Quote from: undo11 on November 30, 2012, 08:24:56 PM
ama
you can't state, categorically, that you will be able to control the outcome, once it is set in motion, particularly since you'll need a justice system and as you know, human justice systems are abused constantly and have been since the dawn of human civs. i agree your concept will remove quite a bit of that, theoretically, the problem is, the guys who are already in control of the show, don't want people to have freedom of choice, only the illusion of freedom of choice and even that is occassionally removed, just to keep the herd afraid and under control.
i really like your idea, but i don't think it behooves you or the idea, to suggest anyone who disagrees about any tiny part of it, is automatically bad.
I never said One who disagrees is "bad!" (?!?!?!) I asked for a scenario wherein there are racial issues. That's all. If You can give Me a scenario that I cannot show how it would not be an issue, I will concede.
Quotefrequently basing the propaganda on the idea that Others will take from One.
that is what i'm referring to. you know you are going to encounter that, in fact, i just was arguing that point earlier in the thread. not from the persepective of people sitting around syphoning off other people's labor, but from the perspective that racism has been religously beat into people's heads to the point where it's going to be a matter of spiritual belief, even in the face of plenty. removal of scarcity will solve quite a few problems, but that is not one it can resolve.
the problem is, if it is then suggested that those who think that way be put to justice for disrupting the system, soon you have removed large groups of people for just having a difference of opinion. in effect, you're trying to set up a system that for all its good points, will inevitably lead to massive suffering for large sectors of the populace, or those sectors of the populace that the powers that be have been so fervently trying to genocide anyway. in which case, your system has just been used to create the same kind of problems that systems in the past have used.
that's why the original concepts presented for the public by the founders of the usa, were inevitably the only workable, humane system. EVERY person is endowed with rights from their creator, not just the people who aren't religious or racist.
Beth, why would One fear Others taking from Them when They can have all They want?
That makes no sense. So, no... " [I ] " DON'T "know [I ] [am] going to encounter that."
Quoteyou can't state, categorically, that you will be able to control the outcome, once it is set in motion,
That's the beauty of it, but once that ball is rolling
in the right direction it will be impossible to derail, though i daresay many will try ;)
Quotei really like your idea, but i don't think it behooves you or the idea, to suggest anyone who disagrees about any tiny part of it, is automatically bad.
There will always be disagreements...
I still disagree with amy on the number of 'prime' laws, or natural laws, that we need to survive as a species.
That doesn't stop us from being able to work together one little bit, we both see the bigger picture, we both enjoy each other's posts.
We both see that this is important, far bigger than the 'opinions' or wants of a single person or group.
Actually, it would eventually pay off. Justice is merely the upholding of those laws, freely agreed to by everybody.
Anybody who breaks those laws will have to be punished, usually by denial of social contact, incaceration at home etc.
Compare this with the brutal systems we have today, this is paradise, even for a criminal!
So what have people got to lose?
That very (physical) freedom and social contact will be the things we prize the most in the future, so this would be a kind of torture to the offender of the future.
There's more, but my wife is distracting me...
Quotesoon you have removed large groups of people for just having a difference of opinion.
They are allowed to have an opinion, we all do.
And you are even allowed to act according to your opinion or beliefs, something that is denied many people today.
But if you act on those beliefs to intentionally break the prime laws, that would be considered criminal behavior.
The more you follow this, the simpler it becomes.
3 (or 4) basic laws, governing all of humanity, TAP is the guide, the path we need to follow.
Thank You, Luke. Spot on.
And yeah... The WORST that can happen is that We won't have to pay for energy, saving billions - trillion! - overall.
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 30, 2012, 08:52:37 PM
Beth, why would One fear Others taking from Them when They can have all They want?
That makes no sense. So, no... " [I ] " DON'T "know [I ] [am] going to encounter that."
it isn't fear of taking goods. we're talking about people who are racist, based on religious texts or their interpretation of religious texts, deliberately trying to get people who they view as the enemy,
imprisoned or whatever options for punishment your system has in store for law breakers. then the call could easily go out to just put all such people in prison or punishment because they are abusing the ONE's peace. and next thing you know, people who haven't done that, are also punished because they bear any similarity to it.
that's why i say you have to keep it so everyone has rights, even the religious or racists, and how are you gonna do that if their very existence messes up the sanctuary of the ONE? i'm afraid that the gift of the feather has been underestimated in your ideas.
what i suggest you do, and i suggest this highly, is read some research papers done on groups like jim jones or similar groups, who start off with a fantastic premise and then get bent into twisty pretzel shapes by reality.
I'll settle just for the free energy, it's a fundamental part of TAP.
Quotethat's why i say you have to keep it so everyone has rights, even the religious or racists, and how are you gonna do that if their very existence messes up the sanctuary of the ONE? i'm afraid that the gift of feather has been underestimated in your ideas.
Sure, people will even have the freedom to express their 'racist' views (imo there are VERY FEW true 'racists' in the world) but if they break those laws...
In any case, a fundamental law of life is love & respect, can you have that & also be a racist?
Don't think so...
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 30, 2012, 09:07:56 PM
I'll settle just for the free energy, it's a fundamental part of TAP.
Sure, people will even have the freedom to express their 'racist' views (imo there are VERY FEW true 'racists' in the world) but if they break those laws...
In any case, a fundamental law of life is love & respect, can you have that & also be a racist?
Don't think so...
well let me put it this way:
would you rather have a law system over you that favors your rights as a person, whether the system agrees with them or not, or favors the rights of the society, which can be lead around like a brain washed robot when necessary?
i realize the big fellows have been working hard for generations to get an utopian idea that will actually work, but to be honest, i just think they sell utopian society ideas as a cover story for wiping out sectors of the populace who they fear will topple them. usually it's based on sound logic too, but let's be honest, what are the odds they would actually want an utopian society that benefits everyone and not just them? when have they ever actually let that be the case?
Quotewould you rather have a law system over you that favors your rights as a person, whether the system agrees with them or not, or favors the rights of the society, which can be lead around like a brain washed robot when necessary?
Can't we have both?
I agree we should all still retain our basic human rights as humans, but the structure of society must come first.
Anyone who would 'lead us around' will by trying to pervert that to their own ends, & will eventually they will break one of the laws, or encourage others to do so.
Quotebut let's be honest, what are the odds they would actually want an utopian society that benefits everyone and not just them? when have they ever actually let that be the case?
They never have, they never will.
There were a few, like Kennedy who saw it, but they removed him pretty quick.
But if that idea spreads to millions of people, they going to wipe us out, too?
I say bring it on, i could use the exercise ;)
It's too late, the cat's out of the bag, many are waking up & asking questions.....
case in point
after the 2008 stock market collapse, people who's money hadn't been lost in the collapse, took their money out of the banks and started investing in gold.
obama now wants to tax that gold with 90% tax. this means if those who bought gold, don't turn around and sell it (forcing its value down to rock bottom) before the tax is implemented, and put their money back in the bank, they will lose almost all its value in taxes.
i knew this was going to happen back in the 70s. i read a book by a guy who said literally, the only thing that would maintain its value would be real estate, and that gold, silver, paper money, etc, would end up being totally worthless. i had a hard time imagining gold being worthless because it has always been valuable. how would that even be possible. well now i know how.
Quote from: undo11 on November 30, 2012, 09:01:51 PM
it isn't fear of taking goods. we're talking about people who are racist, based on religious texts or their interpretation of religious texts, deliberately trying to get people who they view as the enemy,
imprisoned or whatever options for punishment your system has in store for law breakers. then the call could easily go out to just put all such people in prison or punishment because they are abusing the ONE's peace. and next thing you know, people who haven't done that, are also punished because they bear any similarity to it.
What are They going to do? If the three Laws are not broken, They have nothing. "Abusing One's peace" is not under the three Laws. If One's "peace" is abused, One is free to move. And "the call could easily go out" but if there is no Law broken, We will ignore it - but We won't ignore People breaking a Law against these folks.
Quotethat's why i say you have to keep it so everyone has rights, even the religious or racists, and how are you gonna do that if their very existence messes up the sanctuary of the ONE? i'm afraid that the gift of the feather has been underestimated in your ideas.
They have a right - EVERYONE has a right to do as They wish - within the three Laws. Poor behavior will result in pariahhood. Breaking a Law will result in pariahhood at least and lockup in luxury at worst.
Quotewhat i suggest you do, and i suggest this highly, is read some research papers done on groups like jim jones or similar groups, who start off with a fantastic premise and then get bent into twisty pretzel shapes by reality.
Yeah. And Jim Jones' group was creating what issues? Any against the three Laws? Breaking the three Laws is the only crime. All else is permissible - but, again, poor behavior will get One avoided by Others.
Quote from: undo11 on November 30, 2012, 09:36:53 PM
case in point
after the 2008 stock market collapse, people who's money hadn't been lost in the collapse, took their money out of the banks and started investing in gold.
obama now wants to tax that gold with 90% tax. this means if those who bought gold, don't turn around and sell it (forcing its value down to rock bottom) before the tax is implemented, and put their money back in the bank, they will lose almost all its value in taxes.
i knew this was going to happen back in the 70s. i read a book by a guy who said literally, the only thing that would maintain its value would be real estate, and that gold, silver, paper money, etc, would end up being totally worthless. i had a hard time imagining gold being worthless because it has always been valuable. how would that even be possible. well now i know how.
What has all this concern for money, gold and taxes got to do with TAP?
EDIT to add: Yes, in scarcity, there are these problems...
it's because these are the guys you are up against. they don't care if millions or even billions of people disagree.
Quote from: undo11 on November 30, 2012, 10:12:44 PM
it's because these are the guys you are up against. they don't care if millions or even billions of people disagree.
If all of Us who are not Them take control, those few Them have no say.
Quote from: Amaterasu on December 01, 2012, 01:41:14 AM
If all of Us who are not Them take control, those few Them have no say.
Problem with that is you don't know who THEM are... you cannot identify the real seat of power. And as long as they remain hidden, focusing on a generic PTB or imagined 'Illuminati" will do little
And maybe some of THEM are here and now.... at least it looks that way when ya check IP hits :P
(http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg)
It doesn't matter who They are, z. If 99% of Us are going a different direction, that 1% ain't gonna hold Us back.
99%? That is a lofty goal... I have yet to get 4 people in a room all go in the same direction :P and that was with people on the same page ;)
If I get 10% I'm at the tipping point. If The tipping point is hit I will have a good 90%.
And 90% should be good enough.
I'm sure if You asked People, 99% would say They would retire with an unlimited bank account - the essence of TAP lifestyle - so I just may get 99%.
Big difference between arguing about the nit-pickies of how to proceed with planning an event or whatever.
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 30, 2012, 09:59:18 PM
What are They going to do? If the three Laws are not broken, They have nothing.
OK, lets say I am a Psychopath or religious extremist. I make guns, raise a small army and try to run my City and break the three laws. What happens then?
Quote from: Pimander on December 01, 2012, 07:31:59 PM
OK, lets say I am a Psychopath or religious extremist. I make guns, raise a small army and try to run my City and break the three laws. What happens then?
There would be people who would be willing to do something about it. People have often talked about how the Indian caste system (the
Varnashramadharma was supposedly such a terrible thing, but what they don't understand is that the four varnas were actually intended to be a reflection of natural, dynamic self-organisation.
Brahmanas - Priests, sages, scientists.
Kshatriya - Kings, police, military.
Vaisya - The suits, basically. Corporate staff, businesspeople of various kinds, shop owners, merchants.
Sudra - Unskilled labour.
These four groups have always existed within any society on Earth, no matter how the social system that was present tried to organise itself. It's unlikely that that would change within TAP; said people would simply have different roles than they do now. The four groups simply recognise these four perpetual categories of human nature. Position in the varnas was never meant to be hereditary in formal terms, because it isn't in real terms either. Someone might have the Brahmana nature as one individual, but that doesn't mean that their child is going to; the child could well be a Sudra.
To go back to your analogy, though; a group of Kshatriya (that is, individuals who were naturally/inherently militaristically inclined) would temporarily arm themselves and deal with you. Before you ask whether or not said group might try and stage a coup afterwards, then from my perspective at least, it would be almost completely pointless for them to do so.
The reason why, is that whether via ECG or one of the other sources, I estimate that space travel would become mainstream more or less immediately following TAP's implementation. As a result, even assuming that either a portion or the totality of the Earth's surface was somehow captured by a militant group, it would be unlikely that such terrorists would succeed in dominating the entire population. Most would be off-world, and if they wanted to try and chase every last one of us down through space and round us all up, they'd be more than welcome. ;)
Quote from: zorgon on December 01, 2012, 01:50:22 AM
Problem with that is you don't know who THEM are... you cannot identify the real seat of power. And as long as they remain hidden, focusing on a generic PTB or imagined 'Illuminati" will do little
And maybe some of THEM are here and now.... at least it looks that way when ya check IP hits :P
(http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg)
Very astute observation.
More likely suspects:
187.XX.XX.156
Santa Cruz De Sul...
82.XX.XX.47
Nottingham...
87.XXX.XXX.151
Utrecht...
72.XX.XXX.95
Largo...
(http://serve.mysmiley.net/animals/animal0028.gif) (//http://)
Quote from: Pimander on December 01, 2012, 07:31:59 PM
OK, lets say I am a Psychopath or religious extremist. I make guns, raise a small army
Let's discuss this army. Describe the approach to these People You might take to convince Them to follow You...
Quoteand try to run my City and break the three laws. What happens then?
Well, IF You figure out a way to get People behind You, and Others are not happy about it, They tweet, email, whatever, and word gets out, and Those who care will move to find the truth, examining any evidence brought forth on the web from all sides - Personal Witness recordings, Testimonies, etc. - and then We who care will decide.
But I'm thinking You would not get that army - at best You might form a gang with a few Others who share ideology outside the simple Laws. What will You offer Them They don't already have to follow You?
Quote from: petrus4 on December 01, 2012, 07:46:13 PM
To go back to your analogy, though; a group of Kshatriya (that is, individuals who were naturally/inherently militaristically inclined) would temporarily arm themselves and deal with you. Before you ask whether or not said group might try and stage a coup afterwards, then from my perspective at least, it would be almost completely pointless for them to do so.
In other words, the situation will be handled stigmergicly. The leaders will emerge, much like Anonymous's leaders seem to have.
Quote from: Amaterasu on December 02, 2012, 03:50:32 AM
Let's discuss this army. Describe the approach to these People You might take to convince Them to follow You...
Well lets see.... offer them free food and booze... make sure I have dancing girls in the camp and from time to time give them a piece of paper of recognition for deeds well done..
That ought to cover it... well at least that worked for me :D
It is surprisingly easy to raise a Loyal Army. All you need to be aware of is the Law of Vassalage. When you find out what a person's price is to be your Loyal Vassal, you need only meet that price and you will have followers
(http://landoflegendslv.com//07foreign/03orgs/01SCA/images/Events/Estrella2002/battle/battle041.jpg)
Now one example is Bjarki the Black... a very big fellow... special ops. He contracted as my personal body guard for a "year and a day"
Here he is beside then Governor of Nevada Kenny Guinn and two TV 3 news people.
(http://landoflegendslv.com/07foreign/01ov/images/Events/Forest1999/People/002.jpg)
What your program doesn't allow for is that there are MANY people like Bjarki that live for the battle... and most of them are big and mean looking (Bjarki is a pussy cat unless you cross him ;)
QuoteWell, IF You figure out a way to get People behind You, and Others are not happy about it, They tweet, email, whatever, and word gets out, and Those who care will move to find the truth, examining any evidence brought forth on the web from all sides - Personal Witness recordings, Testimonies, etc. - and then We who care will decide.
Though they have said that the pen is mightier than the sword, I think your Tweets would not fare to well against my Claymore
(http://landoflegendslv.com/07foreign/01ov/images/Events/Forest1998/People/99015.jpg)
Ah the nostalgia.... I feel the need to recruit again :D Any takers?
QuoteBut I'm thinking You would not get that army - at best You might form a gang with a few Others who share ideology outside the simple Laws. What will You offer Them They don't already have to follow You?
I have seen grown men cry when receiving a Knighthood after a good battle... you have NO IDEA the power of this until you have experienced it first hand. If you could, you would understand how easy it is to get an army together.
It has been this way throughout history... I do not see it changing anytime soon. Our medieval groups number in the TENS of THOUSANDS world wide. The SCA alone has 35,000 plus members.
And these are the honorable ones... :D I won't even get into those survivalist armies everywhere
Quote from: Amaterasu on December 02, 2012, 03:55:13 AM
In other words, the situation will be handled stigmergicly. The leaders will emerge, much like Anonymous's leaders seem to have.
So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will.
Do that, and no other shall say nay. -- Aleister Crowley
Dream on! It is not in the heart of earthly man to live like robots, nor to be 25/7 cared for by robots. This is a made-up approach to life, and is as "fictional" as fiction can get. I personally like some fiction, but, i certainly don't try to turn it into my (nor others) reality of life!!
A couple of thoughts where some form of this would be in vogue - - long-term space voyages. I would envision those to be all-things-provided societies, which could continue even after landing, if somewhat permanent. But that thought is presently pretty much fiction too. And even then, man will still be man, with all of his weaknesses and shortcomings.
The other thought is related to "heaven", is biblical scripture, which is definitely not fiction. But I won't go into any farther detail on that here except to say that heaven will involve the "spiritual man", not the "earthly man", so the "heart" of the heavenly man will certainly be different, as will his every thought and action.
There are many many needs of people all over the world that await the someone(s) who can give them help. But a fact of life, is.....usually "MONEY" is needed to address those needs. Right-now problems like that are all over and every where. But, there are so few "champions" who will stand up and be a part of helping address the real needs of the day TODAY - only a few! :o
(Mostly just my opinions)
Quote from: zorgon on December 01, 2012, 01:50:22 AM
Problem with that is you don't know who THEM are... you cannot identify the real seat of power. And as long as they remain hidden, focusing on a generic PTB or imagined 'Illuminati" will do little
And maybe some of THEM are here and now.... at least it looks that way when ya check IP hits :P
(http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg)
I think there are so many Psyop groups doing so many things, no one know's exactly what's really going on. I mean Who could?! Everyones got their agenda and the illusion of control, but it's all too deep to see it all.
Just when one group catches a glimpse of "the truth", it changes. That's why I say what we have now is little more than organized chaos.
Only a truly supreme being could see all things - And understand them. My basic label for that "Supreme Being" is "God". I believe that "God" is (simply put) all things joined together as one thing. You name it, whatever it may be and it is a part of "God".
Now I know alot of people are touchy about religion, and I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about a label for every thing joined together as one thing... Past, Present, Dogs, Cat's, Dust, Infinity, Thoughts, You, Me... EVERYTHING. Call it by whatever label you choose -call it the Universe instead of God if thats your thing.
Pretty much the only thing I do know is that it Exists and it's Alive, and it Thinks and Hears and See's and It's the only one that
really knows whats going on. The rest of us are just guessing.
( That's who I go to for the best advice and pretty much the only one I really trust because people are known to lie. ) ;)
Quote from: zorgon on December 02, 2012, 04:53:31 AM
Ah the nostalgia.... I feel the need to recruit again :D Any takers?
*Grits teeth, then makes an attempt to smile politely*
Thanks, but no thanks. ;)
Quote from: rdunk on December 02, 2012, 07:51:13 AM
but, i certainly don't try to turn it into my (nor others) reality of life!
Isn't that the same goal as Christian missionaries? Everyone becomes a blind sheep in the care of a flock?
::)
Quote from: petrus4 on December 02, 2012, 05:30:10 AM
-- Aleister Crowley
Aleister Crowley is to Rosicrucians what Satan is to Christians :P
Quote*Grits teeth, then makes an attempt to smile politely*
Thanks, but no thanks. ;)
That's okay... I am pretty sure you wouldn't 'cut the mustard' as it were :)
But until you try it, don't knock it. There is nothing like having loyal Vassals hunt and kill the Beast and present it for your approval before the feast begins :D
(http://landoflegendslv.com/07foreign/02ren/images/Events/RenFair1998/Feast/F114.jpg)
This is something that money cannot buy
Quote from: zorgon on December 02, 2012, 10:18:24 AM
That's okay... I am pretty sure you wouldn't 'cut the mustard' as it were :)
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist saying that.
QuoteThis is something that money cannot buy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg913f8Tjqc
Nice video :D Proof TAP won't work :P
Quote from: petrus4 on December 02, 2012, 09:12:53 AM
*Grits teeth, then makes an attempt to smile politely*
Thanks, but no thanks. ;)
lol, not my cup of tea or coffee either.
Quote from: zorgon on December 02, 2012, 04:53:31 AM
Well lets see.... offer them free food and booze... make sure I have dancing girls in the camp and from time to time give them a piece of paper of recognition for deeds well done..
Um... They can have free food and booze without Your offer. Hardly a lure. And what will You offer the women to get Them to choose to dance? I'm not seeing these as being successful army-building options in TAP.
QuoteThat ought to cover it... well at least that worked for me :D
Sure, in a scarcity paradigm. Not so much in The Abundance Paradigm.
QuoteIt is surprisingly easy to raise a Loyal Army. All you need to be aware of is the Law of Vassalage. When you find out what a person's price is to be your Loyal Vassal, you need only meet that price and you will have followers
Yes, in scarcity that works awesomely. In abundance, the price can only be of a social nature since food, drink, shelter, and all other material things are available without becoming a vassal.
QuoteWhat your program doesn't allow for is that there are MANY people like Bjarki that live for the battle... and most of them are big and mean looking (Bjarki is a pussy cat unless you cross him ;)
MOCK battle. I bet He would at least hesitate if You had a battle where People are maiming and killing One anOther. And MOCK battles may turn out to be quite common. Sure, playacting will retain its popularity. So... Sure TAP allows for that.
QuoteThough they have said that the pen is mightier than the sword, I think your Tweets would not fare to well against my Claymore
How many have You actually killed, z? If any, how do You feel about it?
QuoteI have seen grown men cry when receiving a Knighthood after a good battle... you have NO IDEA the power of this until you have experienced it first hand. If you could, you would understand how easy it is to get an army together.
And all that will continue - as long as it is all MOCK. Geez. You act as if You believe the playacting is REAL.
QuoteIt has been this way throughout history... I do not see it changing anytime soon. Our medieval groups number in the TENS of THOUSANDS world wide. The SCA alone has 35,000 plus members.
And They are actually killing One anOther? No. They are PLAYACTING. And, again. Throughout history We have lived in a scarcity paradigm. The abundance paradigm is TERRA INCOGNITA.
QuoteAnd these are the honorable ones... :D I won't even get into those survivalist armies everywhere
I don't see the survivalist "armies" out killing People. They might in a survivalist scenario, I agree - but TAP is NOT a survivalist scenario, is it?
Quote from: rdunk on December 02, 2012, 07:51:13 AM
Dream on! It is not in the heart of earthly man to live like robots, nor to be 25/7 cared for by robots. This is a made-up approach to life, and is as "fictional" as fiction can get. I personally like some fiction, but, i certainly don't try to turn it into my (nor others) reality of life!!
Man, Your view of TAP is skewed. Humans following Their bliss are NOT "liv[ing] like robots," nor does anyOne HAVE to live with robots. One is welcome to live like any from any age past. Live in caves and gather food and firewood like cavemen. Live in a yert on the Mongolian steppes. Live in a log cabin One built with One's own hands. One can live in a house One designed and robots (and any Humans whose bliss it is to build houses) built. One is FREE to live as One wishes within the three Laws. Are You saying Humans should NOT be free?
QuoteA couple of thoughts where some form of this would be in vogue - - long-term space voyages. I would envision those to be all-things-provided societies, which could continue even after landing, if somewhat permanent. But that thought is presently pretty much fiction too. And even then, man will still be man, with all of his weaknesses and shortcomings.
No One HAS to live with any tech whatsoever. The whole point of TAP is to offer FREEDOM to choose what makes One happiest, do what One wishes, live as One wishes. All TAP does is make it unnecessary to AFFORD what One wishes to pursue. SO many now have dreams They die with unfulfilled - because They were not lucky enough to scrape together the MONEY needed to do what They envision. They spend Their lives for meager pay pumping Their energy into the system, hoping for the "big break."
QuoteThe other thought is related to "heaven", is biblical scripture, which is definitely not fiction. But I won't go into any farther detail on that here except to say that heaven will involve the "spiritual man", not the "earthly man", so the "heart" of the heavenly man will certainly be different, as will his every thought and action.
My vision of "heaven" is a place where I can create without having to worry about food/clothing/shelter/water supply.
QuoteThere are many many needs of people all over the world that await the someone(s) who can give them help. But a fact of life, is.....usually "MONEY" is needed to address those needs. Right-now problems like that are all over and every where. But, there are so few "champions" who will stand up and be a part of helping address the real needs of the day TODAY - only a few! :o
Because money engenders greed. A fear of Others taking from One. Remove the need to have money to get the basics, and all help will be available without concern.
Quote(Mostly just my opinions)
Based on a misconception, it seems.
Quote from: zorgon on December 02, 2012, 10:41:57 AM
Nice video :D Proof TAP won't work :P
Hardly. Those goons who did the "master's" bidding - were entrained by the money/power They were allowed by the "master." What could that "master" offer Them when there is no money and They can have the material things They want and there is no power over Others?
I am actually living a perverse sort of the abundance paradigm as we speak.
let me explain:
If we were to limit the concept of "abundance" to consumer durables, particularly of a mechanical or electronics variety, then because of 99% of my fellow mans inability to understand the basic principles of operations of it, and the operation of the consumer society as it is, I find that I am able to have pretty much anything I want providing I am willing to put in a bit of repairing and cleaning for a price that may as well be nothing.
I find in myself a strange reluctance to then part with my "treasures" even when I no longer have immediate or predicted use for them! The end result is that I end up needing more space to "live" than strictly speaking I need... I own five motorcycles for example. Who in the name of all that is holy NEEDS five motorcycles?
Admittedly, I am not actually fully living in the abundance paradigm, in reality I still have to purchase fuel for my daily drive, and food for my cat and I, and occasional equipement for the engineering efforts, so there is a small need to "make a return on my labour" still, but I would rest easier, knowing that in Amy's abundance paradigm I would put my skills to use for the common good, not just collect artifacts, like I, and so many of my peers seem to do now, the moment that we seem escape from the scarcity paradigm...
FB.
what's the video got to do with z, petrus?
was that a threat or just an indicator of how rulers tend to be corrupted by their own rulership? (i really don't think you have room to be criticizing others about corruption, considering your current vassal-hood to kali.)
Quote from: zorgon on December 02, 2012, 10:18:24 AM
This is something that money cannot buy
i know exactly what you're getting at. we were created to be vassals. so we have found various ingenious or not so ingenious ways to do that. we are psychologically predisposed to serve, either ourselves, each other or an ideal, such as a god, goddess, president, king, queen or pharaoh, etc. it's a human "need" almost, as if there's a part missing if we aren't actively involved in serving something or someone.
Quote from: Amaterasu on December 02, 2012, 03:50:32 AM
Let's discuss this army. Describe the approach to these People You might take to convince Them to follow You...
Hypnosis, religion or mind control.
Quote from: Pimander on December 02, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
Hypnosis, religion or mind control.
First, One person will go hypnotizing and/or mind-controlling enough to have an army before someOne else notices...? As for religion, all is permissible but that which breaks Laws. No religion has a majority, and if We adhere to these three Laws, any perps breaking them will be overpowered stigmergicly.
Quote from: Amaterasu on December 02, 2012, 05:22:27 PM
First, One person will go hypnotizing and/or mind-controlling enough to have an army before someOne else notices...?
Someone may notice. So what?
There is mind control going on all around us and some of us have noticed. Does that mean nobody can be controlled. No.
I am not trying to put you off improving the world. But solutions are needed to potential pitfalls.
Quote from: Amaterasu on December 02, 2012, 05:22:27 PMAs for religion, all is permissible but that which breaks Laws.
That does not mean religion cannot be used to control people and make them fight.
Quote from: Amaterasu on December 02, 2012, 05:22:27 PMNo religion has a majority, and if We adhere to these three Laws, any perps breaking them will be overpowered stigmergicly.
You hope....
So, if religion is used to create an army, or mind control of another variety (there are so many) how will these three laws stop them? Will you have an army to match theirs because you might need one.
I'll say it again, the thing we should be working on is what to do now. We do not have abundance. Awareness is not abundance. What you need are workable solutions to the problems of energy and changing the legal and economic system. I don't see that happening right now.
Alongside trying to make people aware, you need to change things so you can stop lawmakers (and the corporate lobby) from putting a stop to any budding movement. I don't think you understand how effective CoInTelPrograms have been at stopping social change.
I'd like to be wrong but I think we are getting ahead of ourselves
Cool post, Petrus;
QuoteThese four groups have always existed within any society on Earth, no matter how the social system that was present tried to organise itself. It's unlikely that that would change within TAP; said people would simply have different roles than they do now. The four groups simply recognise these four perpetual categories of human nature.
That's the way i see it also.
QuoteMost would be off-world, and if they wanted to try and chase every last one of us down through space and round us all up, they'd be more than welcome.
We won't be
allowed offworld until we stop having tantrums & throwing bombs at each other ;)
Rdunk, TAP is not a dream, it's a state we need to reach in order to survive as a species, any other system will be short-lived.
Zorgon's description of feudal life will be the norm, but maybe-just maybe- we can learn to follow the natural laws.
Even feudal states will eventually merge into one big state, like Europe did.
QuoteIt is not in the heart of earthly man to live like robots, nor to be 25/7 cared for by robots. This is a made-up approach to life, and is as "fictional" as fiction can get.
So who dug your sewer? Welded your car, painted it, cooked the beans & put them in a can for you?
Would you like to do those things yourself?
Would you have the time?
That's why we invent robots, to do the dangerous or mind-numbingly boring work, & make life easier for us. Of course, you can go & live in a log cabin in the woods & never see a robot again,
if that is your whish. No-one is forcing anything upon you.
Fruitbat, we share the same genes, i'm sure of it ;)
QuoteSo, if religion is used to create an army, or mind control of another variety (there are so many) how will these three laws stop them? Will you have an army to match theirs because you might need one.
We'll probably need police of some sort.
Impartial police that never sleep, are reasonably bulletproof, & with the ability to capture & restrain people without harming them.
A cop that sees all humans as equal.
Robocop?
LOL!
TAP Robotists 2, Humans 0.....
Quote from: undo11 on December 02, 2012, 03:36:38 PM
i know exactly what you're getting at. we were created to be vassals. so we have found various ingenious or not so ingenious ways to do that. we are psychologically predisposed to serve, either ourselves, each other or an ideal, such as a god, goddess, president, king, queen or pharaoh, etc. it's a human "need" almost, as if there's a part missing if we aren't actively involved in serving something or someone.
I don't feel a
need to serve anyone, though I feel I have been coerced to do so many times. I do however want to help others.
Society in many ways creates a trap that truncates freedom.
When hidden away from the public and it's influence I feel far more peaceful and thats something I think everyone deserves - Peace.
Sometimes I have served TPTB, not because I was forced to, but simply because I wished to see where that road would lead. Sometimes I have been forced to serve, but I did so with resistence.
The true me is always still hidden way in the back watching everyone making their moves and learning. I'm still exploring my surroundings and learning just as I did when I was a child
When an individual chooses to be different than others, usually TPTB throw a fit. Once they have determined that you are unlike them, they actually take the time to focus on you their efforts to change you into what they think you should be.
Rather than "TPTB" it could just as easily be called the "MOB" mentality. I have seen many an individual make clear rational decisions on their own. I have seen those same individuals make irrational decisions when influenced by the "MOB" mentality. Why do people cater to the MOB? Usually Fear & Self preservation seem to play key roles. ( which can encompass anything from social status, freedom or life itself )
In my opinion, the right answers and therefore decisions can only be found when everyone has the chance to review shared information privately so as to not allow mob mentality to convalute their decision.
For instance, when information is presented in written form you can review it privately and analyize the facts. When a speaked stands before you in the presence of others, you can be swayed by vocal means, body language, reactions and responses from others (cheers, boo's) Etc... To me these factors can change a good decision into a bad one.
Hi Cap'n
QuoteThe true me is always still hidden way in the back watching everyone making their moves and learning. I'm still exploring my surroundings and learning just as I did when I was a child
Welcome to Thy Inner Self, and welcome to the human race, this is the way we really are, but we don't dare show it ::)
QuoteWhen an individual chooses to be different than others, usually TPTB throw a fit. Once they have determined that you are unlike them, they actually take the time to focus on you their efforts to change you into what they think you should be.
Oh yeah, they tried that from school onward.
Never really cared what they think ;)
One teacher told me flat out i would never hold a laser in my hands, they are just too expensive.
I have 9 of them, not counting all the CD players ;)
I certainly did not listen to them when they preached 'punish the (insert race/creed/lifestyle of your choice here) for they are not like us, & they seek to destroy us'
QuoteIn my opinion, the right answers and therefore decisions can only be found when everyone has the chance to review shared information privately so as to not allow mob mentality to convalute their decision.
Yes, provided you get the
factsQuoteFor instance, when information is presented in written form you can review it privately and analyize the facts. When a speaked stands before you in the presence of others, you can be swayed by vocal means, body language, reactions and responses from others (cheers, boo's) Etc... To me these factors can change a good decision into a bad one.
Took the words out of my fingers :)
Ever heard the old joke;
"God laughed when she heard people thought she was a white male"
We should not be swayed by body language, charisma, or stereotyping.
All we need to share, are our thoughts & emotions.
8)
Quote from: Captain Dave on December 02, 2012, 09:02:08 PM
I don't feel a need to serve anyone, though I feel I have been coerced to do so many times. I do however want to help others.
Exactly the point. There's a big difference between the altruistic imperative, and a desire for subjugation.
Quote from: petrus4 on December 02, 2012, 09:25:25 PM
Exactly the point. There's a big difference between the altruistic imperative, and a desire for subjugation.
RIGHT!
A prime point of one of the basic laws in TAP is that you are duty-bound to help others. By not doing so, by
failing to help others you are not only needlessly putting them at risk, but ultimately that of society itself.
ETA: That does not mean you are duty-bound to help one group of humans bash another group ;)
Quote from: Pimander on December 02, 2012, 06:40:21 PM
Someone may notice. So what?
There is mind control going on all around us and some of us have noticed. Does that mean nobody can be controlled. No.
Because People are not empowered to do anything. They need to stay working to feed Their families, or don't have the money to go do something, or are strong-armed to shut up, or lured with money/power... When We're all freed to stake a stand on Our firmest precepts, with no monetary prybar to pull Us away, We will put a stop to poor behavior choices.
QuoteI am not trying to put you off improving the world. But solutions are needed to potential pitfalls.
I agree. But what most are not seeing the depth of the personal empowerment that is offered in TAP. I keep saying, shifting paradigms is difficult.
QuoteThat does not mean religion cannot be used to control people and make them fight.
True, but money will no longer be the motive. The reason the staunch stance was taken in "having to believe" had much to do with the idea that the more in the "flock" the more money for the priest class. With the money motive no longer at play, with none fighting for scraps, or whatever... I'm betting Humans will do a far better job of getting along.
Priests who advocate breaking the three Laws will likely lose following.
QuoteYou hope....
No... I KNOW. I have watched People who care do some mighty awesome stuff even when restrained by money. Unrestrained, I expect some awesomely mighty efforts.
EDIT to add: Look at Occupy Sandy. THEY were feeding FEMA workers! Look at what THEY did with People who CARE. And THEY had funding concerns, product concerns, and on and on. They did VASTLY more than FEMA or the Red Cross (a money-sucking front) combined.
QuoteSo, if religion is used to create an army, or mind control of another variety (there are so many) how will these three laws stop them? Will you have an army to match theirs because you might need one.
Yup. All who care.
QuoteI'll say it again, the thing we should be working on is what to do now. We do not have abundance. Awareness is not abundance. What you need are workable solutions to the problems of energy and changing the legal and economic system. I don't see that happening right now.
No but awareness leads to the tipping point which WILL lead to abundance. So... Spread to the tipping point while You're scratching Your collective head trying to figure out what nest. When the tipping point is reached leaders will emerge to make it so.
QuoteAlongside trying to make people aware, you need to change things so you can stop lawmakers (and the corporate lobby) from putting a stop to any budding movement. I don't think you understand how effective CoInTelPrograms have been at stopping social change.
I'd like to be wrong but I think we are getting ahead of ourselves
I think We should consider this other, but to be frank, these issues will be solved all the sooner when a path forward hits the tipping point.
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on December 02, 2012, 09:33:27 PM
RIGHT!
A prime point of one of the basic laws in TAP is that you are duty-bound to help others. By not doing so, by failing to help others you are not only needlessly putting them at risk, but ultimately that of society itself.
ETA: That does not mean you are duty-bound to help one group of humans bash another group ;)
Not exactly. No One is "duty-bound" per se... But We will carry the Betterment Ethic. That is key in what We teach. Rather than teach Our children that They have to find a career that makes money - and if Their bliss doesn't pay the bills They have to give it up and find something that does (work ethic), We teach Them to follow Their bliss, and always look for ways to make things better and put the ideas They may have out on the central website for consideration - and action should the idea be awesome.
To look for ways also to better the relationships They have with Those around Them. Try to make People happy, and since They don't have to spend Their time in stress and anguish, or mind-exhausting energy function, this should be much easier for Us.
Social superconductance will also add to making Betterment an easy choice. Rarely will We have to spend time with anyOne We don't want to. We will not have bosses We hate, coworkers that creep Us out, underlings that frustrate Us no end. The People We surround Ourselves with will be the People We CARE about. We may go to a party and run into some jackass, but when the party is over, We may never see HUME again. Hume maybe got Humeself on the "do not invite" list.
This will make for a substantially smoother operation in society. Superconductance.
Encourage creativity and the search for Betterment and, without the constraints of money, this planet WILL be made better.