http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08tk8TqqtuU
Thats troubling, Amy, as for one, the ground water is going to be contaminated for sure, and if anything is sinking that would mean the ground beneath the reactor has been compromised in some way.
Can you say meltdown? Isnt that about what would happen if the reactor fuel had a full meltdown..it would sink into the ground beneath the reactor and form a void due to its incredibly high temperatues?
Or has it been in a meltdown all along, and Tepco has been able to hide it.
I remember seeing somewhere a photo of the fuel pool in one of the reactors and it was empty with no bottom. Hmmm..
Ahh here we go...
(http://flyingcuttlefish.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/art_13.gif)
(http://www.mothballmillstone.org/images/drypool.jpg)
Looks like the ground beneath Fukushima will be compromised for centuries to come..sad:(
Le
I have been told that spent fuel pool four has the possibilty of poisoning the entire nothern hemisphere if the water slops out and the vast amount of toxite shite contained therein catches fire.
If that happens, I am going to get some fine intoxicants sorted out, and get with my favourite people and do my best to enjoy what remains of life before my premature death (IMHO) by radiation sickness or cancer.
Of course there will be days where I cannot just lightheartedly enjoy my time, and during those periods I will be revisting the wide pool of people I knew who were sensible and not rabidly anti nuclear, and saying:
"I told you what the problem was, and what to do, you didn't take any notice".
For this who have missed my previous rants on this subject the probelem is that nuclear energy is inherently "wrong". We need to stop doing it immediately, and focus our energies on dealing with the energy shortfall resulting in the immediate shutdown of all nuclear plants, and the massive mess containment problem that we already have.
Ignore me at your peril. According to some bloke off the internet I and the other people who share my particular "disorder" am gifted with the ability to see the best of all possible ways.
Since my personal life experience suggests that he might be possibly be right, I think it would be irresponsible not to share my insight with the rest of you.
The amusing irony for me, I have always had a weather eye on the hideous danger presented by nuclear power, have planned for, and acquired the means and skills to have a damn good chance of escaping (even spent pool 4 going up in flames), I am sure my loved ones would still elect to sit glued to the TV watching the news reports of radiation-sick americans, and ignoring the fact that we are next, rather than helping me pack and plan for a long journey south in a stolen aeroplane...
I've been keeping a very loose eye on my personal radiation dosage, and it's way higher than a german nuclear powerstation worker is supposed to get, and the background nowadays goes up and down much more than it should, but NO-ONE I ever told has ever reacted with more than resigned disinterest to these facts.
I suspect that it may possibly actually be too late now anyway, and if it is, whilst the normal people are panicking and complaining, I will again be out of step, because I know AFTER the life extinction event has happened will be the best time to get well and truly disinterested in this topic, and all things nuclear. Can't change it then, may as well enjoy it, because I have paid my dues and done the work already when it comes to understanding about things nuclear...
Have you?
FB!
Fruitbat, how can we check our personal radiation levels daily..is there a cheap sensor or badge we can pick up..you know I never thought about getting a sensor or any type of device to measure the radiation around me...good idea IMHO.
Let us know if there is an available one we can all afford, then the widespread folks of PRC can come together on a special thread and upload their daily readings...
Always good to have a chart to refer back to..eh?
Be safe, brother Fruitbat!
Dave
Quote from: Fruitbat on October 07, 2012, 02:55:10 PM
...
I suspect that it may possibly actually be too late now anyway, and if it is, whilst the normal people are panicking and complaining, I will again be out of step, because I know AFTER the life extinction event has happened will be the best time to get well and truly disinterested in this topic, and all things nuclear.
Can't change it then, may as well enjoy it, because I have paid my dues and done the work already when it comes to understanding about things nuclear...
Have you?
FB!
Greetings:
We try ;D
Perhaps additional reading material might be helpful :P
FYIDo Citizens of Earth Have the Right to a Radiation-free Environment? (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1177.0#top)
Fukushima, Pandora's Box and the Nuclear Demon (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2168.0)
"I Have Become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds" (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0)
Wasting Away - The Nukes in Your Backyard (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2726.msg37754;topicseen#new)
Radiation Watch 2012 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1218.msg12638#msg12638)
San Onofre - America's Fukushima? (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2245.0)
"NukaTuna" - The Last Fish in the Ocean (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1442.0)
3/11/11 - The Day The World Changed Forever (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1577.msg40897#msg40897)
America's Being Nuked: Can Together We Stop the Madness? (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2643.msg36607#top)
Fukushima Tsunami Meltdown Debris Field ETA America Summer 2012? (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1376.0)
and our flagship piece
Earth Aid (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1405.0)
Peace Love Light
tfw (http://serve.mysmiley.net/animals/animal0028.gif) (//http://)
Liberty & Equality or Revolution
I have spoken often of the evils of nuclear energy. I have protested. But TPTB have it worked out how to kill most of Us off. With radiation and poisons and toxicities and on and on...
Yeah, I want off this planet - but not to Planet Dirt.
Quote from: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 03:01:31 PM
Fruitbat, how can we check our personal radiation levels daily..is there a cheap sensor or badge we can pick up..you know I never thought about getting a sensor or any type of device to measure the radiation around me...good idea IMHO.
Let us know if there is an available one we can all afford, then the widespread folks of PRC can come together on a special thread and upload their daily readings...
Always good to have a chart to refer back to..eh?
Be safe, brother Fruitbat! -Dave.
It's very very simple, and costs about 100 bux to find a cheap russian or chinese radiation counter that is (alledgedly, and most likely fairly accurately) calibrated in microsieverts. MIne keeps a running total of all the counts, and the batteries last three days of continous beeping and it sometimes takes me a fortnight to get around to changing the battery, but it also tells me that I am getting a frig of a lot more rads than I did last time I measured radiation back in the seventies and eighties. More scarily it tells me that I have got a significant uptick in levels for a few days at a time, and there is frig all I can do about it, except wear a sucession of NBC suits and breathe through canisters, which would make me even more unemployable than I already am...
LE to be more helpful, I just bought one of these because it is amazingly cheap, and can be used with an unbuilt kit I have (75$) that will give me much more options for calibration and accurate measurementes and logging, possibly straight to the internet WHICH IS WHAT MORE PEOPLE NEED TO BE DOING RIGHT NOW.
https://checkout.payments.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?XOProcessor&sessionid=18756837018&pagename=ryprender
and here's a kit for 36bux:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-IDE-compatible-DIY-kit-Geiger-nuclear-radiation-counter-w-LCD-/170907678427?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item27cae436db
ALL THE WORK DONE EXCEPT PUTTING IT IN A BOX AND POWERING up:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-IDE-compatible-Geiger-counter-dosimeter-w-LCD-shield-tube-and-USB-/170916377421?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item27cb68f34d
DON'T BUY ONE OF THESE: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Electromagnetic-Radiation-LCD-display-Detector-EMF-Meter-tester-radio-EMC-/130758444599?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item1e71cf8637
This looks fairly useful, out of the box.. (but I'd ask em if it keeps it's memory in between battery changes..)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radiation-detector-dosimeter-with-Geiger-Counter-SBM-20-model-R-tracker-GR-09m-/300790604276?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item46088461f4
I'm good at finding stuff on ebay, and given the way that teh fukuchima thing has been handled, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, measure it YOURSELF.
(Radiation related stuff pushes me over the edge and I start usings ALL CAPS, sorry about that...)
GO spend some money, on geiger counters, the econmy needs it and you may feel a "need to know" just when you should be getting on that plane headed south...
FB!
Excellent post, Fruitbat, Im going to order a good one, and then we can corellate our readings from across the pond!
PRC Radcheck Unit..coming soon..anyone else want to join?
And, does anyone here have a knack for creating an editable map so we can all download our results from day to day?
Le
If I get more book sales...
Quote from: Amaterasu on October 07, 2012, 07:19:55 PM
If I get more book sales...
Uh oh got bit by the money bug :P
Quote from: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 05:36:46 PM
PRC Radcheck Unit..coming soon..anyone else want to join?
Sure I will :P As soon as I can afford one of these
(http://www.ptraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/P1330256-e1344233931835-500x666.jpg)
Before Fuk U Shima there were $180ish now they over $500 :o
I have an old NAVY one big box but needs special battery hard to find
Bob Lazar used to have nice ones but he is all sold out, Seems Fuk U Shima has made the geiger counter folks reich :P
http://unitednuclear.com/
These ones are good I would be happy with one of these :D Then I can go find radioactive rocks and find out how hot the ones in my garage are
(http://www.conservativedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cdv-700_geiger_counter_circa_1960.jpg)
(http://roberto.baldassar.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/geigercounter.jpg)
British Ebay Geiger Counters (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sis.html?_nkw=GEIGER%20COUNTER%20VICTOREEN%20CDV%20715%20MODEL%201B%20&_itemId=230672673431)This is a good one.... at $289.00
DX-2b Geiger Counter
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Geiger-Counter-DX-2B-Radiation-Monitor-Meter-Detector-FREE-TESTING-SOURCE-/02/!BZD37L!!2k~$%28KGrHgoOKioEjlLme88sBKkzeIcdGw~~_3.JPG)
Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Geiger-Counter-DX-2B-Radiation-Monitor-Meter-Detector-FREE-TESTING-SOURCE-/120956787440)One left...at $439.00
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JZxVwX6mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
[urhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B009HAPEFA/ref=asc_df_B009HAPEFA2207470?ie=UTF8&condition=new&tag=dealtmp333626-20&creative=395165&creativeASIN=B009HAPEFA&linkCode=asml]AMAZON[/url]Price Compare (http://www.buycheapr.com/us/result.jsp?ga=us21&q=gamma+scout+geiger+counter)
Im looking too Zorgon..the ebay one is a bi pricey for me..we hav an army surplus here and he says he has one for a hundred bucks..not sure what kind though..Ill check it out this week.
Pretty sad day when we are looking for geiger counters to use for everyday basis, eh?
That first one looked nice..and German engineering..sehr schön
Cheers!
Quote from: zorgon on October 07, 2012, 07:29:08 PM
Uh oh got bit by the money bug :P
Uh... Not really, just need money for rent, and three book sales ain't gonna cover that, let alone "luxuries" like ping counters.
good idea on the map thingy,also i like the plane idea.gotta buy tires next month.gotta wait.
Ama, I believe Z was making a simple statement, not a dig: we are all bit by the money bug right now; I would like to get a decent survey meter also, but the funds aren't there; I do believe we as a group do need to check levels daily wherever we are; Fukin shima is not going to go away, has been a total disaster since the first rumble of the quake, nothing but lies and deceit fed to everyone...
seeker
Quote from: the seeker on October 07, 2012, 11:14:51 PM
Ama, I believe Z was making a simple statement, not a dig: we are all bit by the money bug right now;
No it WAS a 'dig' :P Afterall she said she was interested in that 'Dream" i mentioned... and THAT is one big money bite :D
QuoteI would like to get a decent survey meter also, but the funds aren't there; I do believe we as a group do need to check levels daily wherever we are; Fukin shima is not going to go away, has been a total disaster since the first rumble of the quake, nothing but lies and deceit fed to everyone...
I was going to get one just before FukU Shima hit literally a week before I was looking at it. Only $90.00 back then. Then suddenly they went through the roof and people paid $350.00 for a $10.00 Iodide pill bottler on Ebay causing a shortage for people who really needed them.
Just shows what human nature will do unleashed. :D
Now with the continued scare that same meter is $450 to $600 So much for 'help thy fellow man' :P And its not only corporations... every Tom, Dick and Mary Jane doing it on Ebay to make a fast buck
Quote from: Littleenki on October 07, 2012, 03:01:31 PM
Fruitbat, how can we check our personal radiation levels daily..is there a cheap sensor or badge we can pick up..you know I never thought about getting a sensor or any type of device to measure the radiation around me...good idea IMHO.
Radiation badges used by all atomic workers.
(http://xrayservice.com/Images/Radiation%20Badges.jpg)
When it is over exposed you will know you are in trouble :D
Those badges are cool Zorgon....I wonder if they adjusted the amount it takes to change them since fukushima?
Le
I REALLY like that orange one zorgon.
Can I recommend that every one consider the concept of "cumulative accumulated dose"?
This means that a counter with an analog meter is all but useless for anything but telling you what you are gettting right at the time you are using it. In my experience the increases are acute short term excursions lasting for a couple of days or so followed by a gradual return to the previous levels. You want your counter to be logging over time.
The best bargain no doubt is the one I posted that you need to put into a box, it's got most of the functionality of zorgons lovely 500$ orange machine but at a fith of the price and one fiftieth of the aesthetic appeal.
Be aware of the pitfalls though. When I measured back in 1986 the results of a little (never publically known) nuclear incident, all it really did for me was make me aware of a situation that was dire and over which I had no control. Owning a geiger counter isn't going to make you happy, particularly in the US if spent fuel pool four drains and catches fire whilst the puddle of melted isotopes is going "prompt critical".
What will you be able to do for yourself apart from die quietly?
Even if all goes right, they cannot actually remove the fuel from spent fuel pool four because currently there is not a robot in existence that can tolerate the radiation. It's a fukin'shambles is what it is, and the japanese are now backtracking on their original wise and sensible decision to shutter their nuclear program, and stockpiling plutonium!! Total madness!!
Has any one ever stopped to look at some of these technologies? Especially the new proposals that are touted as being "safe". One design actually involves immersing the radioactive core in (tonnes of) Liquid Sodium!! Like that's going to go well... (just type "sodium" into you tube, and you'll quickly see that radiation and liquid sodium are a perfect match, IF you were trying to create the most efficient way of irradiating a biosphere...
Wow, I really do rant about this don't I?
I just hate the powerlessness because it's such a big issue and no-one seems to have a clue, except a bunch of lying cheating bastards who seem hell bent on killing us all for money..
Have a look about the internet LE you'll quickly find that people have already organised a global person based radiation metering project, and the mapping and software has already been done for you. The arduino based counters are ideal for the task with only a slight bit of technical learning as far as I can tell, and now I got a tube I'll build mine and maybe get connected up to that wordwide community.
I am told that it can be quite instructive to measure your old engine airfilters... At least under the NWO ideal of ONE world order, with one banking system one currency and one law system, it should be eventually possible to sue someone, and if one has amassed a collection of the most contaminated airfilters one can find, over the next few years, it should be possible to frig them up using the NWO legal system itself, and coin a fair bit into the bargain.
If life gives you lemons...
FB.
Quote from: the seeker on October 07, 2012, 11:14:51 PM
Ama, I believe Z was making a simple statement, not a dig: we are all bit by the money bug right now; I would like to get a decent survey meter also, but the funds aren't there; I do believe we as a group do need to check levels daily wherever we are; Fukin shima is not going to go away, has been a total disaster since the first rumble of the quake, nothing but lies and deceit fed to everyone...
seeker
Sorry if that came off in any way defensively. I was just explaining. [smile]
Quote from: zorgon on October 07, 2012, 11:52:09 PM
I was going to get one just before FukU Shima hit literally a week before I was looking at it. Only $90.00 back then. Then suddenly they went through the roof and people paid $350.00 for a $10.00 Iodide pill bottler on Ebay causing a shortage for people who really needed them.
Just shows what human nature will do unleashed. :D
Not "Human nature," per se, but Human behavior in the constraints of the scarcity paradigm.
QuoteNow with the continued scare that same meter is $450 to $600 So much for 'help thy fellow man' :P And its not only corporations... every Tom, Dick and Mary Jane doing it on Ebay to make a fast buck
Yup. That need for exchange (money) twists People's behavior.
THIS is like what I have but much more appealing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2012-April-SOEKS-DEFENDER-Dosimeter-Radiation-Detector-Geiger-Counter-/380436228517?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item5893c429a5
It also has a mains adapter so the batteries won't let you down.
At 220bux it's not completely unattainable for most of you and there is some warranty, in case you live long enough to need it...
IF you can devote a computer to it, and don't mind sourcing the tube seperately, (they are very cheap) this is a damn cheap option, but you'll only get "cumulative" if it's always connected to the running computer. But if you want to set up an online facility, this at 44$ plus 2.49$ for the tube is as cheap as I can find!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GQ-GMC080-Geiger-Counter-Kit-Nuclear-Radiation-detector-/110963195570?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d5ebfeb2
Shall I keep looking? eventually I'll find a good 75$ unit...
FB. (My counter is beeping quite a bit right now...)
Now youre talking, Fruitybat!
Good post!
When the microwave popcorn in the cupboard starts popping..get the hell outta there!
Le
OK, I'm really quite unhappy now.
I'm getting 10x what I should be this evening. and the counting keeps getting faster.
Tomorrow I build a counter, and I sell it to the first person I can frighten enough to buy it, making as much profit as I can without losing the sale.
I'm going to repeat the process as fast as I can (Using my margin to increase production rate in a grim parody of the nuclear fuel cycle) Until someone cottons on and turns the bloody things off and starts clearing up the mess.
I've had ENOUGH now. LE, build that FE generator please, and if you don't mind, be quick about it!
I'm off to bed.
FB!
So the readings are getting higher in UK and US, so they have to be real high in neighbouring countries of Japan.
Draw a stright line between fukushima and the UK, since the wind goes via the US, go through the US in the direction of the UK.
Radio nucleides are relatively heavy and they fall out of the sky with time.
it takes time for the air to get to the UK, going via the US first.
I'm measuring peaks of 10x background, in the UK after the plume has passed over the full landmass of the usa...
Can anyone see where I am going with this line of deduction?
Incidentally it was very foggy when I was measuring peak "rads" last night.
It was very quiet this morining but has increased throughout the afternoon again.
I measure indoors except when I go out with the device in my pocket.
FB!
Quote from: Fruitbat on October 20, 2012, 06:22:21 PM
Draw a stright line between fukushima and the UK, since the wind goes via the US, go through the US in the direction of the UK.
Radio nucleides are relatively heavy and they fall out of the sky with time.
it takes time for the air to get to the UK, going via the US first.
I'm measuring peaks of 10x background, in the UK after the plume has passed over the full landmass of the usa...
Can anyone see where I am going with this line of deduction?
Incidentally it was very foggy when I was measuring peak "rads" last night.
It was very quiet this morining but has increased throughout the afternoon again.
I measure indoors except when I go out with the device in my pocket.
FB!
Yes, it is easy to see your point, FB; the jet stream carries the particles 'round the world; makes one ponder about all the hoopla about D.U.M.B.s the last several years...
seeker