I watched this today, a pretty good compilation of debunking the show Ancient Aliens..let us know what you all think!
Its in HD so fire up the big screen and enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ
Cheers!
Le
I was disappointed that They didn't address the number of stones in the pyramid and the fact that if it was built in 20 years as claimed, stones would have had to be going into place like every 5-10 minutes...
Though They may not have used weird tech... I'm certain They are far older than claimed, and took a LOT longer to build - especially with the methods as described.
Quote from: Amaterasu on October 19, 2012, 12:33:04 AM
I was disappointed that They didn't address the number of stones in the pyramid and the fact that if it was built in 20 years as claimed, stones would have had to be going into place like every 5-10 minutes...
Though They may not have used weird tech... I'm certain They are far older than claimed, and took a LOT longer to build - especially with the methods as described.
I agree, Amy..where this video shines is in its common sense approach to how AA is just to be a money horse for the History Channel..but where it wanes is in its explanations for how everything was done, and what timeline was involved.
They approch it from a mainstream standpoint, and tell us that the copper tools and various ridiculous lifting and placement techniques were employed..but as for the reality of it, they dont address the fact that it was all done by past advanced civilizations, instead of aliens.
They talk about how everything was built in the current era, and how the typical explanations for who and what are correct..but I and apparently, you, know better.
I also sensed a certain respect for the christian religious viewpoints on several of the issues there, so to trust these guys is going to take a lot more foundation aside from the stuff they debunked.
Sure the AA folks have an agenda, and Giorgio is a complete dippoop in my opinion, but the past civilization theory I personally hold dear applies here, and many of the artifacts and megalithic sites have a much more mysterious past than they tend to suggest.
Off to post my ideas on the post you made earlier..I do have a interesting viewpoint on it..and I like the gist of it as a whole!
Cheers!
Dave
Quote from: Littleenki on October 19, 2012, 12:52:06 AM
I agree, Amy..where this video shines is in its common sense approach to how AA is just to be a money horse for the History Channel..
Like most of those connected to TV shows or videos of "alternative theories".
Some years ago I posted a video on YouTube, taken from a NASA site, showing the breaking of the tether from that famous experiment, and I received a copyright complaint. Some company was clamming that what I had posted was from one of their documentaries, as they were into those "alternative theories" and had one documentary with those images. To show that they were important people they told me that most of the management came from other big companies, including Sony, so that shows that although they appear as "alternative" to the MSM they have the same people behind them.
PS: I showed them that I got the video from a NASA site, so things ended there.
Quote from: Littleenki on October 19, 2012, 12:52:06 AM
Sure the AA folks have an agenda...
Indeed They do. They're not particularly credible - although I think the basic premise is sound. And, as You pointed out, this piece too has an agenda.
Until we get into The Abundance Paradigm...agendas will abound.
Found this article:
http://www.philipcoppens.com/aaq_art5.html
Debunking Ancient Aliens Debunked
Hehehe..I talked to Filip recently and he told me about thjs article but I forgot..thanks Amy!
Le
Quote from: Littleenki on October 18, 2012, 09:11:09 PM
I watched this today, a pretty good compilation of debunking the show Ancient Aliens..let us know what you all think!
Its in HD so fire up the big screen and enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ
Cheers!
Le
I sat through about half of it before I got bored. I will give the guy who produced it credit, though. AA Debunked is the very first time I've ever seen a materialistic/"skeptical" refutation of literally anything, where the author either didn't resort almost exclusively to the appeal to authority fallacy ("person X isn't recognised by academia, therefore obviously anything they say should be dismissed out of hand, because they're not a member of the mainstream circle jerk") or hysterically emotive ad hominem.
I also thought the author was correct about AA's claims about construction being outlandish and non-credible. The Greeks and Romans built architecture which in some cases wasn't all
that much less awesome than that of the Egyptians, and in their case, if you tried to say that aliens did it, you'd immediately get laughed at. Greco/Roman construction methods are a matter of historical record.
The Egyptians were extremely intelligent, and I don't believe that AA gives them anywhere near enough credit. It's actually quite insulting, when you think about it; the idea that we absolutely had to have alien help to build the pyramids, because obviously we're far too stucking fupid to be able to have done so ourselves.
As for Giorgio, he truthfully doesn't bother me at all. He makes me laugh, if anything. If you want to talk about someone on that show who I think is really in the twilight zone, then that would be David Childress.
And then there's THIS:
http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/387/
Ancient Aliens Debunked Debunked Debunked – My Response to Philip Coppens
Quote from: Amaterasu on October 19, 2012, 07:14:17 PM
Found this article:
http://www.philipcoppens.com/aaq_art5.html
Debunking Ancient Aliens Debunked
Unfortunately, Philip refers to the author of AA Debunked as "stupid," which is regrettable. I think AA Debunked raised some valid points, (particularly regarding construction and architecture, as mentioned) but I didn't agree with it on all points. AA Debunked's coverage of the Dendara lightbulb was particularly unsatisfying, as it completely ignored von Daniken's possible reproduction of the bulb, as well as another reproduction of a very similar arc light bulb which I've seen on YouTube.
Yes... Honesty is being stretched a wee bit on both sides, I think...
Quote from: petrus4 on October 19, 2012, 07:48:41 PM
As for Giorgio, he truthfully doesn't bother me at all. He makes me laugh, if anything. If you want to talk about someone on that show who I think is really in the twilight zone, then that would be David Childress.
Childress is just making money out of books. You just have to take what he says with a shovel of salt. :)
i dont have dish but i did see the one on the lightbulb.really pissed me off.
we could produce a better show than that.
do they even know what the word science means?
they all need a kick in the nads.
that would force some oxygenated blood to their brains.
If everything they were going to say was true on the Ancient Aliens show, it would have never been produced and would have never made it past the moderators. The best part of the show is to get peoples minds at least thinking about this sort of thign. Though, only a small percent will begin to research and begin to have independent thought on their own.
Quote from: Pimander on October 19, 2012, 08:59:42 PM
Childress is just making money out of books. You just have to take what he says with a shovel of salt. :)
The main thing that I love about Giorgio Tsoukolos, is his near-identical resemblance, both facially and vocally, to the actor Fisher Stevens. I'd love to get them both together on-screen at the same time, or even have Tsoukolos perform an impersonation of Vincent Lotello from
My Science Project. Given the nature of that film, Tsoukolos is almost how I would have expected Lotello to have turned out as an older adult.
"Here comes Lotello, yo!"(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3cS1315n8UQ/0.jpg)(https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1769649316/TwitterProfile_1.jpg)
Can you tell which is which? ;)
The other thing I have to love about Tsoukolos, come to think of it, is that he's CSICOP's worst nightmare. ;)
Quote from: Pimander on October 19, 2012, 08:59:42 PM
Childress is just making money out of books. You just have to take what he says with a shovel of salt. :)
Childress is who got John started in all the Moon conspiracies ;)
As for the Great Pyramids, they were built by the last race. The Pyramids align perfectly with the stars of Orion as they were in 10,000 BC, about the same timeline as the recent discovery of Gobekli Tepi and the Lost City of Dwarka...
So believe what you wish :P but that is the truth of it.
Now if only we could have a look at that Inventory Stella :D
Quote from: zorgon on November 12, 2012, 08:48:17 AM
As for the Great Pyramids, they were built by the last race.
The last race. Are you referring to the 4th Root Race, Zorgon?
The Atlanteans, who had bodies which were three meters in stature, created a very powerful civilization. The Atlantean continent was immense; it extended from the south to the north, from the Austral region to the Septentrional. This Atlantean Root Race had its four seasons, or ages.
Quote from: petrus4 on November 12, 2012, 12:22:02 PM
The last race. Are you referring to the 4th Root Race, Zorgon?
The Atlanteans, who had bodies which were three meters in stature, created a very powerful civilization. The Atlantean continent was immense; it extended from the south to the north, from the Austral region to the Septentrional. This Atlantean Root Race had its four seasons, or ages.
I think Zorgon is referring to the Zep Tepi people, or those of the "first time"
Pre-Khemitians, Pre-deluvial, and definitely Pre-modern human as ourselves.
Theres many who claim to have found the reason for the pyramids and what they did..of course all speculation...some say they were cosmic ray collectors, some say HHO generators, some say Torsion field concentrators, some say gravity generators, etc, etc, but until mainstream archaeology loses their grip on the dogmas of todays beliefs concerning the pyramids, we shall be destined to wallow in uncertainty about their true use.
Regardless of who built them and where they were from, it is a fact that at some point our forefathers lived on other planets and their DNA resided in other galaxies..that can be said with nearly 100 percent accuracy.
So, TV show debunked or not, Ancient Aliens existed and will never be proven wholly untrue by anyone.
Its all in the definition of what youd call an "alien".
Le
Quote from: petrus4 on November 12, 2012, 06:42:44 AM
The other thing I have to love about Tsoukolos, come to think of it, is that he's CSICOP's worst nightmare. ;)
They have worse nightmares to come. ;)
QuoteSCEPCOP
SCEPCOP is the 1st Coalition of Researchers, Investigators, Writers, Truth Seekers, Freethinkers and Intellectuals united to counter and expose the PseudoSkepticism movement for their fallacies, religious fanaticism, unscientific behavior, misinformation, denial, suppression, bigotry and ridicule toward all data, experience or science that challenges orthodoxy or does not fit into a materialistic paradigm. We do not support every quack claim out there, but advocate true skepticism, proper application of the Scientific Method, objectivity and unbiased open inquiry toward all paranormal and unconventional data. We are the world's first counter-pseudoskeptic movement providing resources, articles, books, videos and an online community.
We support the proper application of the Scientific Method, which involves the updating of one's hypothesis to the fit the data, rather than rejecting any and all data that doesn't fit into an a priori hypothesis, which the PseudoSkeptics do, which is totally unscientific and the antithesis of the Scientific Method.
www.debunkingskeptics.com
Check out the site. Become a SCEPCOP. :)
Cool site Pimander..enjoying right now..thanks!
Quote from: zorgon on November 12, 2012, 08:48:17 AM
Childress is who got John started in all the Moon conspiracies ;)
Childress is onto something for sure regarding civilisation being far older. I've met him. He over-concludes and wanders into speculation though. I think he knows he does but wants money for books. :P
While I agree that the monuments at Giza - especially the lower parts of the Second Pyramid, The Great Sphinx and some of the temples near the Great Pyramid - indicate a far older date of construction than conventional Egyptology permits, the 10,000BC date doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There is no concrete evidence that the date is highly significant.
I'm a revisionist too. That doesn't mean I can't still be a critical thinker.
wahoo debunking the debunkers..been at that a bit
years age i read about old old..oldest chuches in europe having star orientation
both in thier building places and writings in or on them stating certain things
the study was done by a german , i think
i am right now kicking myself for not saving the reference to that
have you ever come across it...? anyone
I'm a revisionist too. That doesn't mean I can't still be a critical thinker.
i hope you won't be insulted P.. if i say ditto ;D
Closer to reality all the time. You keep surprising me, Sky. :)
It might have been a French guy actually.
(http://www.rilko.net/EZ/rilko/rilko/imagelibrary/rilko_chartres_page_header.gif)
THE MYSTERIES of CHARTRES CATHEDRAL.
Louis Charpentier. The occult message of numbers and relationships.
Illustrated.
You'll find that book and more on that type of material here. Research Into Lost Knowledge Organisation (http://www.rilko.net/EZ/rilko/rilko/page05.php?PHPSESSID=m8ut14iakl46aegi6l2cgnsje1)
Unless it was Josef Heinsch, Principles of prehistoric sacred geography (http://www.cantab.net/users/michael.behrend/repubs/ggw/heinsch_gvkg/pages/gvkg_en.html)
(http://www.cantab.net/users/michael.behrend/repubs/ggw/heinsch_gvkg/images/gvkg_03_en.png)
Square of the Holy of Holies, Ark of the Covenant, and holy hill orientation.
Same metrical relations in sacred buildings as in the old spatial ordering of the landscape.
Notice any similarities between the two figures above? Happy hunting. ;)
Quote from: Pimander on November 12, 2012, 02:06:39 PM
They have worse nightmares to come. ;)
www.debunkingskeptics.com
This almost brings tears to my eyes. The cavalry have finally arrived. It's about time we had a scientific counter to atheism. It has been a long time coming. We can hope that the neo-atheist insurgency may soon be coming to an end.
The next step is to liberate Wikipedia from these vermin, as it sadly became completely infested with them not long after its' inception. From there, controlled demolition theory in the case of 9/11 needs to gain the respect it deserves, as well. The effort to drive back the infernal minions of Richard Dawkins still has a long way to go, but this is an important first step. ;)
ah P.. i am laughing at surprizing you..you must have led a secluded ivory tower life to have never run across anyone like me... ;) ;D
i will have to do some nice reading here..thanks..but i'm still thinking it was a german guy
and this looks like mostly solar orientation from what i can see and what i am remembering was more oriented to constellation/s ..and it was all pre christian..and if i am remembering correctly pre druid also..mostly small churches in small old villiages that had been overlooked but still existed
and it was there placement geographically that was telling more than just one tale
i read a lot of chartres stuff before i made my 100' (yeah i meant ' ) labyrinth back in 2000
another example of the good ole christians taking over a paga hot spot
you've given me a good starting spot... 8)
;D
Quote from: sky otter on November 12, 2012, 07:51:34 PM
ah P.. i am laughing at surprizing you..you must have led a secluded ivory tower life to have never run across anyone like me... ;) ;D
Hardly. :)
Quote from: sky otter on November 12, 2012, 07:51:34 PM
i will have to do some nice reading here..thanks..but i'm still thinking it was a german guy
Look above again.
QuoteHeinsch, a regional planner in Germany, developed his landscape-geometry theories in the 1930s. He published them in various places, the most accessible being this paper delivered to the Geographical Congress in Amsterdam in 1938. His theories became known to the Straight Track Club in England, and an English translation by R.P. Jones (which I have not seen) was summarized in F.C. Tyler's book The Geometrical Arrangement of Ancient Sites; from there Heinsch's theories were quoted in John Michell's influential work The View Over Atlantis (Sago edition, 1969, p. 21).
http://www.cantab.net/users/michael.behrend/repubs/ggw/heinsch_gvkg/pages/gvkg_en.html
;D
hardly, he says..english humor is so dry... ;)
anyway.. i did read your guys and that was not it..not early enough
so i am still looking..i haven't found what i think i remember (phew)
but i have found a nice little reference to what i was looking for
a prelim of sorts
i have copied some parts ...and we are kinda - sorta going off center
so if you move this to somewhere..just let me know where to find it..
even though i am fair at tracking, i'm gettin lazier than i like to admit..sigh
here ya go
http://sacredsites.com/europe/sacred_geography.html
this first part was just an interesting tidibt that made me think of soma and his orgone stuff
and free energy stuff some of the guys here are attempting as new..
Often erected directly over power points along the Earth's meridian lines, the dolmen megaliths served to tap terrestrial energies for the benefit of human beings.
Another fascinating thing to know about many of the dolmens is that they were originally entirely covered by alternating layers of organic and inorganic materials. While the purpose of this construction technique is presently unknown, it is interesting to note that the scientist and psychic Wilhelm Reich used the same technique in the construction of his so-called orgone generators, these being (much smaller) devices that were able to generate, concentrate and radiate a mysterious form of energy. Could the ancient builders of the dolmens have been using their unique construction techniques for a similar purpose?
...
Thom's evidence, however, could not be dismissed. Both overwhelming in quantity and painstakingly accurate in presentation, it undisputedly demonstrated the phenomenal astronomical knowledge, mathematical understanding, and engineering ability of ancient megalithic people. Indeed these abilities were so advanced that they were not equaled by another European culture for over 4000 years. Thom's excellent books, Megalithic Sites in Britain and Megalithic Lunar Observatories, show with eloquent certainty that megalithic astronomers knew the yearly cycle to be a quarter of a day longer than a round figure and that they recognized the precession of the equinoxes, the 9.3 year major and minor standstill cycles of the moon, and the lunar perturbation cycle of 173.3 days which allowed them to accurately predict eclipses. Furthermore, these megalithic builders were extraordinarily keen engineers and architects expert in advanced geometry 2000 years before Euclid recorded the Pythagorean triangle theorems and over 3000 years before the value of Pi (3.14) was 'discovered' by Indian mathematicians. Surveying sites with the accuracy of a modern theodolite, these ancient builders developed a unit of measure, the megalithic yard of 2.72 feet, which they used in stone monuments from northern Scotland to Spain with an accuracy of +/ - .003 feet or about 1/200th of an inch. Following the leadership established by Alexander Thom, the English scholars John Michell and Robin Heath have gone on to demonstrate even more of the brilliance of megalithic mathematicians and engineers.
....
Imagine the surprise and, at first, strident disbelief of the archaeological community when megalithic construction dates of 4000-2000 BC were factually established. The stone monuments of Europe were suddenly a thousand years older than those previously believed "world's oldest stone monuments," the Egyptian pyramids.
Carbon-14 dating had thus effectively and totally undermined the diffusionist theories as suitable explanations for the development of Europe's megalithic culture. This accurate archaeological dating technique, in conjunction with Thom's site surveys, demonstrated with irrefutable certainty that megalithic culture was indigenous to Europe, that it had developed wholly on its own (though perhaps with a mysterious Antlantean influence), and that it was the most scientifically advanced culture in the world during the long ago time of 4000 to 2000 BC.
As mentioned previously, each specific power place is unique by virtue of both its location and its energetic emanation. Certain power places were noted by ancient people as having energetic emanations which were influenced by particular astronomical cycles. The astronomical observatories erected at these power places were designed in such a manner as to be oriented toward the celestial body or bodies which influenced their power place emanations. While there were similarities in astronomical orientations between various observatories, there were no constant alignment patterns used, as each power place was unique in both its Earth surface location and its astronomical correspondence point. The energy link between these two unique points, planetary and celestial, produced a subtle energy emanation unlike any other place upon the Earth. As these energy emanations varied from place to place, so also did the type of structures that were erected to study the periodic changes in emanation of the earth energies.
......
Myths and legends traceable to periods of the early Neolithic seem to indicate that a mysterious group of 'astronomer-sages' knew of the periodicity of cometary objects and their potentially lethal effect upon the planet. Authors Knight and Lomas in Uriel's Machine make a convincing case that the stone rings of megalithic times were used as both calendrical indicators and cometary prediction devices in service to mankind.
alright..back to the hunt..good thing the stupid football game sucks or i would be in front of the tube instead of intellectual stuff like this... ;D
8)
:(
can't find what i was looking for..sigh..but found a lot to read and that's always a good thing
so sorry for the side trip
:P
Quote from: Pimander on November 12, 2012, 03:33:50 PM
... the 10,000BC date doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There is no concrete evidence that the date is highly significant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yz1DfTF3-E
I've read the book and seen the film. I completely agree that the end of the ice age played a major role in removing lots of evidence of civilisations and also probably in catastrophic changes. I am not especially convinced by Graham's attempt to tie in star patterns or the precise dates they (Hancock and Bauval) give for the Giza monuments
Regardless of quibbling over precise dates (covertly in an attempt to vindicate Edgar Cayce but they are not open about it), Hancock has done a lot of good work. He has made so many questions about conventional archaeology and its shortcomings and also injected new life into historical/prehistoric revisionism. I have loads of time for him and others like him.
Well, You have to admit that it is interesting that computer simulations bring Leo in line with the sphinx, Orion in line with the pyramids in Giza, and Draco in line with the other temple complex at 10,500 BC... Mere coincidence? Personally I doubt it.
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 26, 2012, 04:39:07 PM
Well, You have to admit that it is interesting that computer simulations bring Leo in line with the sphinx, Orion in line with the pyramids in Giza, and Draco in line with the other temple complex at 10,500 BC... Mere coincidence? Personally I doubt it.
This demands a longer answer and I don't have time right now.
I don't think the Draco one is significant as they don't match Draco exactly and they don't include all of the temples.. The sphinx is simply aligned due East (as are thousands of monuments) so is a marker of the cardinal points. the pyramids do not match Orion's belt exactly - do you really think builders with the skill of the Egyptians were not capable of aligning them perfectly with the belt?
I'll try to remember to come back later when I have time to go through the details. Feel free to remind me. I used to believe it all myself until I had a deeper look.
Fair enough, Pim.
this is the one that gets me. every so often i go back and watch it again, just to refresh my memory, cause there's so much interesting data in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooy2LTJoMVM
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 26, 2012, 03:56:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yz1DfTF3-E
Indeed, Amy, Hancock needs no quote...he is the preeminent lost civilization explorer of our day. Bauval and Childress, not so much aside from theoretics and endless postulation on Childress part specifically.
As for Orion, theres a lot of evidence it links not only the Giza plateau, through Carl Munck's work, but also Atlantis coordinates and the Orion alignment with stonehenge, Teotihuacan, Tiwanaku, and Giza.
!0.500 BC..there are a lot of theories about why that specific date keeps popping up in numerous research efforts, and most are pretty solid, especially the work of Barbara Hand Clow in her book Awakening the Planetary Mind. Over to the right on amazon for a tenner.
Where aliens and ancient aliens fit in according to all these ideas of past civi;ization to me is clear..some say aliens built the megaliths and possessed the lost technology, and also shaped our ultimate DNA set...some say it was just highly advanced prehistoric humans.
Personally Im in the middle, as it would be ludicrous to say aliens have never came here at any time in the past...but thats ok for some..not for others.
If one wants to see another good video about the Pyramids which discusses excellent dating efforts, this video is also good...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tshlYmX8OkI
Its part 1 of an eight part series, which deserves the time of all eyes interested in the failure of Egyptology's farcical propensity for dubious and less than accurate renditions of what Egypt really is made of.
As for Draco..nothing jumps out more than this site..home of the most stunning architecture on this planet in my opinion and that of many others as well....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lZFghk8UE
Those here such as Amy and Pimander will recognize the smooth concise delivery of..yes...Graham Hancock.
Serpent Mound is another place that is said to align with Draco, and a clear forerunner for North American astrology mysteries involving the fort Ancient culture. A meteor landed here and could it have brought more than rock and dust? Why did the Indians build this structrue right on the edge of the crater????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0GVGG5WUyw
No aliens here, just antedeluvial humans?
Cheers!
Le
Great thread!
I rather like AA documentaries, though they do tend to exaggerate ::)
The 10,000 year date does coincide with the position of orion at that time, the theory works for me. I have also read some evidence of a nuclear disaster (war?) that happened 33,000 years ago, that would place it more in the time frame of Atlantis going under??
Anyways, i'm just posting here so i can find the thread tomorrow & watch the film :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW0ApDr032I
1hr 11 minutes - 1hr 15 minutes. - The film's central thesis, more or less. Causes some serious endorphins in me actually, when the info is taken together with the music. ;)
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 26, 2012, 11:41:39 PM
Great thread!
I rather like AA documentaries, though they do tend to exaggerate ::)
The 10,000 year date does coincide with the position of orion at that time, the theory works for me. I have also read some evidence of a nuclear disaster (war?) that happened 33,000 years ago, that would place it more in the time frame of Atlantis going under??
Anyways, i'm just posting here so i can find the thread tomorrow & watch the film :P
Hey Luke..a quick add in here..speaking of Atlantis...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oI5PUwPkFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8rP00H8krU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChiDottZ0cw
Cheers, brother!
Dave