BEGIN NOTE
This is a repost of my original thread, for two different reasons.
a} The original thread has been hijacked and filled with largely irrelevant material by {{{several people}}}
b} I consider Amaterasu's subforum, in hindsight, to be a more relevant place for this thread, as acknowledgement of the existence of the psychopaths (or The Lizard Hearted, in Amy's unique terminology) is part of The Abundance Paradigm.
I want discussion and analysis of this topic, but only the topic itself, as it is described here. I do not want individuals such as [redacted] coming into the thread and dumping great loads of irrelevant material into it, which then completely disrupts it.
END NOTE
Something I am currently motivated to do, is encouraging people to acknowledge the reality that contemporary Western society is largely run and governed by psychopaths. The reason why I want people to become aware of that, is because once people do, they will no longer defend or advocate the dishonest ideologies (such as Capitalism) which the psychopaths use to justify their own behaviour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSDIT55KeKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGyvxqYSbE
If you have the time, please watch these, especially the first film, I Am Fishead, and educate yourselves.
This is the missing link; the missing piece. We can try and devise and implement whatever kind of socio-economic system that we want; nothing will work, until we confront, acknowledge, and accept the existence of the psychopaths.
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
-- Markus Tullius Cicero
You are perfectly welcome to create your own forum to promote your agenda, which the majority of people here do not agree with as being a viable solution.
You are also free to use the special guest section set up for TAP and post your info there.
You are not free to dictate or call out specific people for going off topic in a thread.
Every forum has the same problem. Once a thread's point has been made and read by those interested and they made their comments either pro or con, the thread will usually take other directions. This is human nature and also the fact that the topic is vague and encompasses a wide range of related material, so it is easy to wander off topic onto related side tracks
with your permission, petrus, i will repost my prior comment about one of your videos. i am interested in your response
Quote from: petrus4 on November 24, 2012, 09:50:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGyvxqYSbE
This video, to show it again as an example, is a fantastic introduction to psychopaths, for the person who probably does not know anything about them at all.
The single main reason why I want people to be exposed to this sort of information, is so that they can then begin to put 2 and 2 together, and realise that virtually all of the institutions and ideologies of modern society (such as Capitalism, Socialism, Communism etc) which they usually defend and advocate as being good things, are actually the creations of psychopaths.
wonder why he thought conda lisa rice was a psychopath. i note that it covers all spectrums but he seems to be mostly taken with republicans and christians lol
also, the idea that competitiveness is a sign of psychopathy might be over the top a bit, as humans need that aspect of being human, to survive. it's just that some take it to the extreme. for example, i play wow. sometimes i go to battle grounds. i note people who just pvp and collect their points and move on. and others that pvp, stop and spit on your corpse, snack on your corpse (cannabalize), make rude gestures at your corpse, t-bagging your corpse, and etc. that, i think, is over the top examples of competitiveness. they don't just want to win, they want to stomp your face in the dirt, then laugh about it for awhile and brag to their friends later. just the point of excelling at it isn't enough.
Quote from: zorgon on November 25, 2012, 11:50:28 PM
You are not free to dictate or call out specific people for going off topic in a thread.
Point taken. I truthfully felt nervous after having made the post, because I thought I probably
had gone too far.
Quote from: petrus4 on November 25, 2012, 11:58:06 PM
Point taken. I truthfully felt nervous after having made the post, because I thought I probably had gone too far.
didn't mean to cause you that much unnecessary displeasure and discomfort! just talking alot cause, well, i think alot. i think you think alot too, that's why you're here with the rest of us trying to figure out what's up with everything and, in the case of your thread here, how to recognize people who might be the cause of it or a condition that might be the cause of it. i just dunno how to connect psychopathy to competitiveness. without stepping over that fine line of making everyone who plays a game or has a debate or disagrees, into monsters.
Quotea} The original thread has been hijacked and filled with largely irrelevant material by {{{several people}}}
Guilty as charged, M'lud....
Quoteas acknowledgement of the existence of the psychopaths (or The Lizard Hearted, in Amy's unique terminology) is part of The Abundance Paradigm.
Oh yes. This is important.
Amy, if you're reading this, it's important to let people know there is a problem, before telling them there is a cure for it....
We are discussing the problem, being psychopaths.
I found that film from the OP very interesting, i've seen the 'corporate psychopath' at work ::)
QuoteSomething I am currently motivated to do, is encouraging people to acknowledge the reality that contemporary Western society is largely run and governed by psychopaths.
I agree with you......what we need to do (once we have all agreed this is the case) is to work on a solution.
TAP is a solution, but it won't happen without blood & tears being shed.
QuoteA nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.
Cicero was right ::)
QuoteOnce a thread's point has been made and read by those interested and they made their comments either pro or con, the thread will usually take other directions.
always...
As for going too far, it was on the edge, and Z is strict but fair. This thread, and this forum, will survive, because we communicate, right?
(sorry about all the commas, it's my style...)
Quotehow to recognize people who might be the cause of it or a condition that might be the cause of it. i just dunno how to connect psychopathy to competitiveness.
It's a fine line, there are those who compete & are satisfied to have come so far, and there are others who are
never satisfied, no matter how much they acheive.
Power junkies, i call them, mostly psychopathic in nature ::)
Quote from: undo11 on November 25, 2012, 11:57:48 PM
with your permission, petrus, i will repost my prior comment about one of your videos. i am interested in your response
I will look for this in the original thread. I'm hoping Zorgon will delete this one before it gets too large, because I realise that I should not have made it.
Finally found this video of a classic psychopath, the Iceman interview.
His father was a psychopath and Richard, his son had a very abusive childhood.
Iceman tortured animals as a child and would put his victims in a cave with a camera to capture the rats eating them to death.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=007UO2aOm-U
Just watch 10 to 15 minutes Petrus of above video and let me know your thoughts about this guy.
Please.
I don't want to know about him, i've met people like him.
They mostly come unstuck, & die of their own exploits....
I'm just going to stick with the tech issues from now on, i'm not a philosopher by any means... ::)
Quote from: petrus4 on November 25, 2012, 10:08:52 PM
a} The original thread has been hijacked and filled with largely irrelevant material by {{{several people}}}
Sorry mate. Like Beth I think a lot and get carried away. I'm also like a dog with a bone when I have a point to make so we inevitably drag thoughts out of each other and practically forget what the thread is about. There was no deliberate hijacking of the thread from anyone.
ETA: Oh no, that post was off-topic. :o
Quote from: Pimander on November 26, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
ETA: Oh no, that post was off-topic. :o
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Quote from: zorgon on November 26, 2012, 02:54:48 AM
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I will repeat what I wrote in the T.A.P., You're It! thread:
What of the People who love power? This is a question I have been asked, relative to T.A.P. I ask, what of Them? I do not discount the influence of charisma, but most of the Ones that rise to power in the scarcity paradigm have money behind Them.
Let Us consider a power-hungry and evil Person in a Society that judges Those They meet based on the three Laws. If this Person has no other bliss, and can offer Others nothing but this Person's ideas to motivate Them to help with the plans – You can't have power over Others without having "minions," otherwise You become a "lone gunman" and We take You out of social circulation – that Person had better have some amazing charisma. And until You have a decent sized base, You are, at most, a gang, and too many waves made will cause Us to take the gang out of social circulation.
Today, We judge Others by "laws" artificially and frequently non-ethically decreed. Profit motive and political connections lead to "laws" that are created for special interests. And because "laws," once enacted, just stay unless We see radical issues and move to remove the "laws" – like Prohibition of alcohol – they stay on "the books," We have millions of "laws" and cannot truly judge others except by the "laws" as We think We know them, or rather, by "laws" as We think they should be. Many of the "laws" contradict each other, and there is no way any of Us can know them all.
What We see, therefore, is intrusion, curtailing of liberty, inconsistency, and limited ethical judgment.
You can think and believe whatever You want, but it is by Your choice of behavior You create, and so how You choose to behave will be the measure by which You are judged. If Some don't like Your choice of behavior, don't spend time with Them. If You are not fond of anOther's behavior, don't spend time with Them – and if the behavior breaks any of the three Laws, You (and any Others who care) may remove the One choosing poor behavior from social circulation.
Of course, as Accuser, You will be held to the same three Laws relative to the accusation, and Many who care may not take Your side. So always choose Your behavior wisely.
From: http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2759.0
Good one, Amy :)
I missed the TAP thread first time round, reading it now.
In many ways similar to my thread on 'the implications of free energy' which is still in the 'closed' area, sorry about that peeps ;)
OK so it's all a very neat idea, and there are tremendous obstacles in our path, the main one being human nature itself, i.e.distrust & greed etc.
But you are doing a fine job of setting it out in a simple manner that people can understand, and adressing all the pro's & cons. Excellent.
This list of social payment for work done is (for me at least) not even needed:
Quote.......b. Humans will do work They WANT to do for mere social currency
..............i. Appreciation
..............ii. Lauds
..............iii. Thanks
..............iv. Gratitude
..............v. Reputation
..............vi. Recognition
..............vii. Self-satisfaction
For me, it would be a case of:
I would do it, because i CAN do it (repair machines etc).
I would do it, because it
needs to be done, and i would definitely enjoy 'payment vii', self-satisfaction in seeing a job well done.
Thank You, Luke. I will reiterate that in TAP, there is no such thing as "greed." Define "greed" when One can have what and as much of what One wants...
Amy, you're a star 8)
i would define greed as 'people WANTING more than they NEED'.
For example, i WANT a million bucks, but i don't NEED a million bucks to survive....something like that??
Off to work now,
Later!
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on November 29, 2012, 07:34:04 PM
Amy, you're a star 8)
i would define greed as 'people WANTING more than they NEED'.
For example, i WANT a million bucks, but i don't NEED a million bucks to survive....something like that??
Off to work now,
Later!
Heh. Define "need..." One might presume that if One had a cave, food and water handy, heat, animal skins for clothing - that One then has "all One needs." In TAP One can have LOTS more than One needs - a nice house, fresh organic food of wide variety, plenty of clean water, heat AND air conditioning, a vast array of clothing options, plus refrigerators, freezers, stoves, computers, cameras, indoor plumbing, lighting, and so forth. In the US, We ALL have more than We need.
But what will change in TAP is that the push to consume will vanish. We will not have profit motive driving advertising with an onslaught of ads, spam, "special promos," etc. We will all gravitate to a level We are COMFORTABLE at (virtually ALWAYS with more than We NEED).
Products will be made to last - so obtaining a new [whatever] will be reduced radically in frequency. No motive to make things break so as to ensure future sales, along with rejection of flawed products, will ensure this (lightbulbs will last a century or more...). So waste will be minimal.
There is plenty on this planet for all of Us to have everything We WANT - and what We WANT will NOT be dictated by fads, ads, or profit motive.
QuoteBut what will change in TAP is that the push to consume will vanish. We will not have profit motive driving advertising with an onslaught of ads, spam, "special promos," etc. We will all gravitate to a level We are COMFORTABLE at (virtually ALWAYS with more than We NEED).
It's all part of feeding that competitive spirit, "keeping up with the Jones's" what my grandmother would say :)
If my neighbour buys a BMW X-5, i should have one, too.
Bull, i'll stick with my tired old french van, it suits my needs perfectly, even more so when i convert it to water power ;)
It will carry more, & give 40% better mileage, it won't break down, & it won't need a computer to fix it ::)
My neighbour now has a problem, he's in hock up to his neck, i payed cash for mine, second-hand.
It's already written out of the yearly budget, i'm saving for another one (just like this one) when she finally gives out.
This is the point where repairs become more frequent, and the option of a newer car is cheaper.
I've had over 34 cars. Some i sold for profit, some because they were too expensive to run.Some were stolen, some i got rid of because certain people were looking for me.
Many were scrapped or written off, i got every last mile from them, going to the most extreme use of duck-tape you could ever imagine!
But if i had a car, like that one, built to last 200 years......
QuoteProducts will be made to last - so obtaining a new [whatever] will be reduced radically in frequency. No motive to make things break so as to ensure future sales, along with rejection of flawed products, will ensure this (lightbulbs will last a century or more...). So waste will be minimal.
Exactly!
That's one of my prime areas of interest.
Later!
i think the majority of psychopaths die at a young age.
the thing is science can border on psycopath ie.watching rats feed on live humans.
this challenge of morals is different for each individual.
i have worked for close to a hundred employers in my life.
almost all of these folks was very greedy.
most of the ones who were not are now out of business.
the majority were sharp in their field but border line retarded outside their area of expertise.
the common denominator was greed.
most to this day are not happy.
a good example is my neighbor directly across the street.
makes almost hundred grand a year as a train operator for the powerplant.
ownes a three hundred thousand dollar house and a new truck.
on his days off, he does meth,steals my irises,kills my dog,breaks into my house and steals my last joint in my ashtray while im at work.braggs about the millions he has saved.
real piece of work.
sooner or later he will slip up.
thats all i can hope for.
as i live in texas,im waiting to catch him deep on my property.
until then i live my life in poverty waiting patiently.
if psycopathy wasnt profitable to nature,then nature will eliminate it.
i believe tap goes against nature,or nature would have already created it in society.
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on December 02, 2012, 09:57:10 PM
It's all part of feeding that competitive spirit, "keeping up with the Jones's" what my grandmother would say :)
If my neighbour buys a BMW X-5, i should have one, too.
Bull, i'll stick with my tired old french van, it suits my needs perfectly, even more so when i convert it to water power ;)
It will carry more, & give 40% better mileage, it won't break down, & it won't need a computer to fix it ::)
And what do You think will happen when ANYONE can have that fancy car? Won't be what One uses to measure success. Betterment will be the measure. Are You doing more than Your neighbor to better this planet?
And most will keep Their vehicles, getting new ones as truly needed - and the new ones will have no planned obsolescence built in.
Quote from: robomont on December 02, 2012, 11:38:48 PM
i think the majority of psychopaths die at a young age.
the thing is science can border on psycopath ie.watching rats feed on live humans.
this challenge of morals is different for each individual.
i have worked for close to a hundred employers in my life.
almost all of these folks was very greedy.
most of the ones who were not are now out of business.
the majority were sharp in their field but border line retarded outside their area of expertise.
the common denominator was greed.
most to this day are not happy.
a good example is my neighbor directly across the street.
makes almost hundred grand a year as a train operator for the powerplant.
ownes a three hundred thousand dollar house and a new truck.
on his days off, he does meth,steals my irises,kills my dog,breaks into my house and steals my last joint in my ashtray while im at work.braggs about the millions he has saved.
real piece of work.
sooner or later he will slip up.
thats all i can hope for.
as i live in texas,im waiting to catch him deep on my property.
until then i live my life in poverty waiting patiently.
if psycopathy wasnt profitable to nature,then nature will eliminate it.
It is. Psychopathy will be very UNprofitable in a society that uses social currency.
Quotei believe tap goes against nature,or nature would have already created it in society.
"If man was meant to fly, We'd be born with wings."
Dear, JUST NOW in all Our (known) history on this planet do We have the two key elements required. Free energy access and robots - and so, through My work, nature is making it happen. Now.
just because i dont believe its not possible doesnt mean i dont support your idea.
every lazy freeloader would also ,as some people have no shame including myself.
free energy will be a problem due to all the folks who work in the industry.
for the three unit electrical coal power
plant to provide ten megawatts of power to dallas.
a thousand people are employed.
at an average 100,000$.
thats alot of money keeping the economy going.
there are thousands thru out the nation.
but i will say good luck in your cause.
i like the general idea.
its how i live my life because money sure isnt my driving force.
Quote from: Pimander on November 26, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
ETA: Oh no, that post was off-topic. :o
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Quote from: zorgon on November 26, 2012, 02:54:48 AM
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Quote from: Eradicator on December 03, 2012, 01:50:24 PM
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Psychopathic emoticons.
How to spot them?
Hey Robo;
If you're in Texas, & someone is on your proerty, can't you just shoot him?
You will always have social parasites feeding on the system.
We really have to get out of THAT mentality.
Mostly i do it by asking "what have I done today?"
Something useful, i hope.....
As for the people working in the power industry, they will have to adapt, there will be plenty of jobs for those that WANT to work.
Quotebut i will say good luck in your cause.
i like the general idea.
its how i live my life because money sure isnt my driving force.
And i for one, thank you deeply for feeling that way :)
hey i missed those last posts, was it funny?
Zorgon got banned?
Oh, My! ::)
z got banned from where? (I'm confused...)
i thought pimander got blocked,two back to back post?whos the exterminator?
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=3196.msg44949#msg44949