U.S. sets steep final duties on Chinese solar panelsQuote(Reuters) - The United States on Wednesday set steep final duties on billions of dollars of solar energy products from China, but turned down a request from lawmakers and U.S. manufacturers to expand the scope of its order.
Source:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/10/us-usa-china-solar-idUSBRE8991NR20121010
The News goes a little further making a bit of Story!
Remember whilst reading this that Neither call each other out regarding the moon or what Buzz is doing in China ;D
US self-harming tariffs on China solar panelsQuoteWASHINGTON -- American solar businesses may see cost double when they paid the Chinese factories, as US Commerce Department on Wednesday affirmed steep punitive tariffs on Chinese solar panels.
The department made a final determination that Chinese producers and exporters sold crystalline silicon photovoltaic cells, whether or not assembled into modules, in the US market at dumping margins from 18.32 to 249.96 percent, and received countervailable subsidies of 14.78 to 15.97 percent to manufacture these solar panels.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-10/11/content_15810593.htm
US affirms punitive duties on China's solar cellsQuoteWASHINGTON -- US Commerce Department Wednesday announced its affirmative final determinations in antidumping duty and countervailing duty investigations on crystalline silicon photovoltaic cells from China, whether or not assembled into modules.
The department said Chinese producers and exporters sold solar cells in the US market at dumping margins ranging from 18.32 percent to 249.96 percent, and they received countervailable subsidies of 14.78 percent to 15.97 percent.
Source:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-10/11/content_15809865.htm
Hypocrisy.
When is a free market not free? When its biggest beneficiary, USA, do not allow free trade.
Hypocrisy.
SO hey whats going on Here ?
My old man's solar setup pumps back into the grid! (its another whole story of how they try and sting ya on that one) but yeah he is providing power :D
Hell, silicon valley traders have margins of 500%......
It is scandalous though, we could all have our appliances at much lower cost........
Quote from: Pimander on December 21, 2012, 08:35:51 PM
Hypocrisy.
When is a free market not free? When its biggest beneficiary, USA, do not allow free trade.
Hypocrisy.
Its crazy really. Manufacturing in asia is what has driven prices down to some degree. At times it annoys me but to place tarrifs on solar power when people can get it cheap is so blindingly absurd.
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES on December 21, 2012, 08:37:34 PM
Hell, silicon valley traders have margins of 500%......
It is scandalous though, we could all have our appliances at much lower cost........
The company I work for presently work on 50%... which is pretty unheard of in most circles apart from the US. Baffles me how much people are at times not saving money from prototyping in china compared to what they should be :-[
Quote from: Somamech on December 21, 2012, 08:41:30 PM
but to place tarrifs on solar power when people can get it cheap is so blindingly absurd.
Not if you are a government in the pockets of big oil.
If the president does anything contrary to the interests of big oil he will be joining the dead Kennedys. Ask George Bush Senior why that is.
Mind you PWM and Pim.. A little birdy told me earlier in the year that a lot of TW companys setup solar shops... yet they were they were too silly to find markets :D
Will check that out when I'm over there in March which is a dead certa ;)
It's starting to look like black market for energy.
Quote from: Pimander on December 21, 2012, 08:52:22 PM
It's starting to look like black market for energy.
Like I said mate, I will check it out... Solar Panels changes the game!
A black market for some YES.. almost literally for those voting !
Almost beddy byes for me now mate. (Wifey is great... but at time's she does have a point LOL)
The oz Green Party told people they would follow a ten year plan to work power out through normal means. See it happen ? Nope. Not because of their Plan.... but its easier to charge me "my" 100% more for so called gold connection's (that is what the gov said) than just provide proof.
I concur that the rapid increase in sparky is relevant to independence ;)
hey energy isn't free and is never going to be free unless everyone has the same access
as long as there are haves and have nots..there is a profit to be made and folks willing to do whatever to make that profit
here's a little quote that sums up a lot - underline is mine
Gas producers clearly stand to benefit from export. One of the lesser known realities of the gas fields is that today's prices are not sustainable as they don't offer producers enough value to drill profitably. Even accounting for the cost of gas liquifaction and shipment, the spread between U.S. prices and global prices ensures them a better profit from export than they currently get at home.
http://theenergycollective.com/arnoharris/160796/export-natural-gas-accelerate-our-clean-energy-future
they have wells everywhere around here now and are still trying to put in more..and they are currently building a huge pipe line to connect with ports in philly and n.j.....
farms have been trashed due to the way they are changing laws about mineral rights
http://www.frackcheckwv.net/impacts/the-human-story/
they are even going so far as to say even if you own the mineral rights under your property
it only covers so many feet down....below that they can do what they want
right now they are doing seismic surveys
http://www.beachapedia.org/Seismic_survey
by either setting off explosions or shaking the ground..even in towns
i'm curious to see what happens when they do this in the spring
because most of western pa. is honeycombed with old coal mines
and the shaking is sure to cause subsidance..watch for stories on that soon
ahh never mind
::)
Quote from: Pimander on December 21, 2012, 08:35:51 PM
Hypocrisy.
When is a free market not free? When its biggest beneficiary, USA, do not allow free trade.
Hypocrisy.
This country isn't any better, Pim!
The CSIRO and Federal Police spent most of the 80's and 90's destroying all the independent Energy Researchers (Solar Cell and other). Now it seems that BHP and the CSIRO are the only players left.
Use Law enforcement to destroy your opposition and steal all their ideas!
Gee, that's a real free market!
And how does solar electricity replace or reduce oil consumption in the US?
And how expensive is solar electricity when night storage and backup generators are figured in ( since it might not shine sometimes and a gas turbine is needed to come on line)?
Note: I am the only person I know within 10 - 20 miles around to have solar cell panels at my house.
Quote from: Eighthman on December 22, 2012, 12:04:30 AM
Note: I am the only person I know within 10 - 20 miles around to have solar cell panels at my house.
Well enlighten us then.
I just did - by asking the right questions.
If you guys really wanna talk about free energy, there seems to be a device that's real but I lack enough knowledge to pursue it.
Takes some knowledge of nuclear physics and maybe chemistry. Tried on one site but no one would help me.
A look at Solar power in NZ..
http://www.solarcity.co.nz/what_will_i_save
theres so many ways to go on solar.
one must know ahead what your trying to do.
from off the grid to just running a few small items.
a simple system system can be built for under a thousand bucks but will not be legal to install into your power company.
solarcells come in different price ranges.
the way ive thought of doing one is with a car battery ,a voltage converter dc to ac from an auto parts house, a single solar panel.
this settup would run my tv for a few hours and maybe a single light.
as finances improve,i would then add more of each.
if you go the route of legal,just the power convertor is like five grand i think.
this machine automatically disconnects power from the service provider during an outage to prevent the lineman from being electrocuted by your system.
plus it puts out an ac signwave that is in sync with the power companies electrical signal.
this is how your power gets sold back to the local provider and your stuff doesnt fry your neighbors fridge and tv or worse blow up a transformer.
Synchronous inverters - such as 250w units- are quite inexpensive. China makes 'em and you can get them cheap on ebay.
That way, you can feed power back into the lines without telling anybody. Reduce your bill.
Quote from: sky otter on December 21, 2012, 09:34:57 PM
hey energy isn't free and is never going to be free unless everyone has the same access
as long as there are haves and have nots..there is a profit to be made and folks willing to do whatever to make that profit
here's a little quote that sums up a lot - underline is mine
Gas producers clearly stand to benefit from export. One of the lesser known realities of the gas fields is that today's prices are not sustainable as they don't offer producers enough value to drill profitably. Even accounting for the cost of gas liquifaction and shipment, the spread between U.S. prices and global prices ensures them a better profit from export than they currently get at home.
http://theenergycollective.com/arnoharris/160796/export-natural-gas-accelerate-our-clean-energy-future
they have wells everywhere around here now and are still trying to put in more..and they are currently building a huge pipe line to connect with ports in philly and n.j.....
farms have been trashed due to the way they are changing laws about mineral rights
http://www.frackcheckwv.net/impacts/the-human-story/
they are even going so far as to say even if you own the mineral rights under your property
it only covers so many feet down....below that they can do what they want
right now they are doing seismic surveys
http://www.beachapedia.org/Seismic_survey
by either setting off explosions or shaking the ground..even in towns
i'm curious to see what happens when they do this in the spring
because most of western pa. is honeycombed with old coal mines
and the shaking is sure to cause subsidance..watch for stories on that soon
ahh never mind
::)
True my old friend it aint never free ;) It takes resources to make a solar panel, provides jobs etc. Honestly i am sure many people other than me have done whole industry wide scope on this one :D
A good example of price gouging using myself as an example here in Oz in the last 16 months or so is brain bending :o
When I moved into this rented house we were hovering on a Quarterly Bill of 300 bucks for Electricity Usage in 2011. In that time I had no qualms keeping cool with air con when temps that read above 100f whilst putting on the AC for awhile to cool the house down.
Wont bash the Oz gov so much on Solar as they have had rebates for awhile which did get my dad off-grid to an extent. So thats cool, the Oz gov did something awesome!
In 2012 every bill we received for electricity has doubled in price, yet we use less :'(
Quote from: The Matrix Traveller on December 22, 2012, 07:22:47 AM
A look at Solar power in NZ..
http://www.solarcity.co.nz/what_will_i_save
Thanks for that Link Matrix!
I really do wonder how Pensioners or Unemployed even live in Australia... Lucky Country ? ;D
Quote from: starwarp2000 on December 21, 2012, 09:42:03 PM
This country isn't any better, Pim!
The CSIRO and Federal Police spent most of the 80's and 90's destroying all the independent Energy Researchers (Solar Cell and other). Now it seems that BHP and the CSIRO are the only players left.
Use Law enforcement to destroy your opposition and steal all their ideas!
Gee, that's a real free market!
Crickey! Don't get me on that topic !
When i first started working in the industry i work in till this day I was making some parts for that Car that was an Oz industry Showcase with the orbital engine IIRC. Last year or so I went looking for that and found GM and CSIRO turned a Commodore into a Hybrid Beast ;D
Quote from: Eighthman on December 22, 2012, 02:46:44 PM
Synchronous inverters - such as 250w units- are quite inexpensive. China makes 'em and you can get them cheap on ebay.
That way, you can feed power back into the lines without telling anybody. Reduce your bill.
I think what Pim was asking 8man is that Solar Panels are real, and do Exist.. and you said something well worthy of ALL Members Attention mate ;)
I know we all get a bit "Save a book" or "Burn the Book" at times. And in saying so I would think that good solar knowledge is well respected here between both Camps ;D
In a Nutshell I think someone was giving you a little nudge nudge wink wink to speak up... we are all ears :)
QuoteBaffles me how much people are at times not saving money from prototyping in china compared to what they should be
They do some nice HV equipment, & much cheaper than anyone else, for a poor inventor that makes them ideal..
Eighthman, you are at the right place ;)
We are looking into all kinds of free energy scenario's, there's plenty of threads right here on PRC that go into great detail.
OK so the problem with solar panels (even cheap ones) is one of storage & conversion to AC. Zorgon even did a thread on it, as i recall......
The legislation for using them here in Europe is tough, but not impossible.
For example you can easily get permission from the town council to install them, provided it's done by an approved contractor. That cuts out the small buisnesses & the D.I.Y.-ers.
And you have to have a special 'dual tariff' meter fitted, which can run backwards.
Why? so that you can sell your extra energy back to the power company.
The catch is that after all that expense, you get something like 3 cents per KwH, but you pay them at least 7 cents per KwH at any other time.
There are 2 plus sides to this, albeit small ones.
One is that your house is generating energy & earning money while you are away on vacation etc, and the other is that you can get about a third of the cost subsidized from the government, only you have to be real quick with the application, it's on a first come first served basis and the pot is usually empty within a few days!
Better to use them for a 12 or 24v DC system, which you don't have to declare or get permission for....
As for inverters, we are designing a few of our own,like the super inverters and some neat class D/E designs provided by Fruitbat 8). I have already promised the first 2 units to PRC for whoever needs them the most, i think Zorgon and Amaterasu will be the first names on that list :D
ETA: I guess that means i'll have to make them 110 v 60Hz.... :P
I'll tell you what I know and then see if anyone can help. Here goes......
J Naudin tests free energy notions in his lab. He tested an idea called "VSG" he got from a French scientist, who claimed that they observed free energy in Tokamak experiments with various elements.
The rationale for the VSG device is written in French , at some length. Babblefish only goes so far.
He reported clear overunity results that seemed well calibrated. However, I don't understand exactly what triggers the reaction described. A HV pulse? Or Alpha particles from a Thorium welding rod?
Another guy reported replication of the device: www.intalek.com
That's about it.
yes 120vac 60HZ.what can you make them for,in american dollars ?
I'll take a peek :D
8man, we have at least 2 members on PRC who ARE french, they could help us with the translations ;)
Micjer is french i think, try sending him a PM with some links, in fact that goes for anyone who knows french members here ;)
The french group i found working on the MEG (yahoo groups) were doing quite well, shame i didn't understand all of what they were chatting about (i'm too lazy to use Babelfish anyway, it's just as easy to learn some French), but the diagrams & photo's were worth a thousand words..
The thorium thing i've heard of in many systems, Naudin originally did some cold fusion experiments, in fact i've probably posted on it here, can't remember ::)
But using Thorium in a Tokamak setup IS new to me, i'll have to read up a bit first.
Touts suites, mon amis ;D
ETA; Hi Robo, missed your post, wait 1...
In dollars?
No idea, the real expensive parts are the capacitors, transformers, heatsinks etc.
But i have plenty of those already :P
So the actual cost, for me at least, is almost nothing.
What it's going to cost is time, but theres progress.
What i would like to do (aside from the 2 free units) is to post all the diagrams, pics, how-to's parts list etc so those of you who know which end of a soldering iron to hold, can make them themselves. I'll even supply the heatsinks, i've got tons of 'em :)
If you like i will look up the cost of the parts from Conrad / RS / Maplin or somewhere, & give you a price for the parts.
Naturally if i start selling them, i will make them as cheap as i can for PRC members.
In fact, I won't sell them, but maybe PRC can?
This is something that has cropped up a few times, i think it would be a nice earner for Peggy, not only hard cash, but with a piece of actual hardware to back up her reputation.... ::)
What do ya think?
To clarify on the cost of inverters, up to about 500 watts, there are some good ones on the market for what? 150 bucks or less?
I would prefer we begin with something like 500 watts, but i'm thinking inverters in the 10Kw range.
Enough to power the average house ;)
I know what the industrial ones cost, it's a small fortune!
These we can build for about 1/6 of the cost :P
In fact, like i keep telling people, recycle the damn stuff, most of the (normally very expensive) parts i get from old/damaged equipment that my clients throw away. Who cares, they can afford a new one, they don't care what happens to the old stuff, so long as it gets removed.
Especially if it contains hazmats, they can't store it on the grounds :P
Getting back on topic, if PRC started selling actual free energy machines, it would spell our doom.
However, what we do have are some highly efficient inverter designs, and we could sell those (again with special rates for members) and not get into trouble.
Now, if we built a flex-meg or some other circuit that is say, 99.9% efficient, then we would be quite safe from TPTB.
Having said that, one could easily market a device that, once taken home & fiddled with, would maybe become 500% efficient.....?
Food for thought, that one ::) and the topic for a new thread, methinks ;)
Google J Naudin and it will take you to his stuff.
The VSG experiment used a carbon rod/ thorium welding rod spark gap with a big coil magnet around it.
I wondered if he was using a 'charge cluster' effect - something which mainstream science ignored completely, even though a Russian scientist independently verified the effect. (K. Shoulders patent)
I will have a look, i'm sure i've seen it already, but i see so much these days.
I'm quite sure that a normal brain would have melted by now, but i'm actually enjoying it. Please forgive me if i miss the occasional post guys ;)
I have posted plenty of thoughts on the properties of charge in the 'gold ring' thread & elsewhere.
My 'pet theory' is that charge is in fact, inter-dimensional.
It is therefore capable of phenomenon such as FTL & gravity effects, as posted in the TT Brown discussions (a must for all members interested in 'antigravity').
There is also plenty of info in my own forum, if you have something to add/post, & discuss in a clear scientific manner (more or less LOL) then maybe you can join us in the inventor's group 8man.
Quite frankly, we need as many brains working on this as possible.
This area is strictly for inventors, however, if you can ferret out ideas/info & pass it on to the group, you are also welcome.
Amy is a wizard in this, & that's why she is there also :)
There are 3 kinds of inventors, and then you have the 'communicators' like Amy (Amaterasu) & a few other interested parties.
So if anyone thinks they are 'inventor' material, they are welcome to PM me for an invite, you will find it informal, on a first name basis.
Some of that spills over to the public forums, as does the information.
No problem with that, either.
The point is that the forum is a nice quiet area where the boffins among us can get together & share theories/results etc. Most of the focus is on replicating or confirming certain 'taboo' technologies.
The 3 kinds of inventor & their tasks are outlined in the green thread, entitled 'The implications of free energy & a proposal'
I won't go into the implications at this stage, but the proposal is a tech approach to solving problems, free energy is the main problem, AG another but nonetheless receiving a lot of attention.
Basicaly it works towards (or along the lines of ) Amy's TAP system.
All devices/inventions get assessed & where possible, tested, by us.
The info, plans etc are all posted, & the plan is to release everything, open source, once we have enough proof, preferably in the form of a functioning machine, or undeniable proof of one.
Water, or HHO is such a system.
It has been proven to work, not only by the inventors like Stan Meyer et al but also by colleagues of mine, from the original Inventor's forum years ago.
Besids, most of it is out there already, many of you know that already.::)
What we need to do, is get that technology out on the streets where it belongs, not in some dusty archive or Hanger 18 or wherever they stash 'secret' technology these days...
P.S. The three types of inventors are Thinkers, Tinkerers, and Builders :P
i was thinkin 2kw.enough for air conditioning and or a microwave oven.
a marketing gimmick may be a stand alone unit that just powers a central air unit.
it would be mounted above the outside unit to provide shade and power.
im curious to here about the french thing.my ninth grader is taking french but her vocabulary is lacking in technical jargon.
2 Kw is good, it will run most household appliances.
As a rough guide inverters are like audio amps, about a dollar a watt.
So normally, a 2Kw inverter will set you back 1600-2000 bucks.
I'm just pulling numbers out the air here ;D
I reckon we could put a 2kw inverter together for 500 bucks, maybe less.
At least, i would like to make them as cheap as possible, we could probably make them a lot cheaper than commercial ones.
If we started mass-producing them, the cost would drop by about 40% or more, say 300 bucks or less?
Just some rough estimates there.....
Quote from: Eighthman on December 22, 2012, 07:40:28 PM
Google J Naudin and it will take you to his stuff.
JLN labs has a forum that used to be really active.
These days there is maybe 5 posts in a week if that :'(
When you get into the higher power, it gets horribly expensive.
At least a buck per watt.
I have transistors here which i got for free, it turns out they cost over 400 euro's EACH, and you're going to need between 4 and 8 of them, depending on the type of inverter. The caps & diodes are almost as expensive.
BUT if we can get the ball rolling, build a few test models, these will be the expensive ones.
If we have a really good model, it gets cheaper the more we make.
I'm willing to invest in the first few models for free, since i have more than i need, after that i will have to start buying stuff, & at that stage it would be prudent to sell them & / or find an investor.
The advantage at this stage is i have plenty of stuff to build the first models, so they wont cost zilch, only my (very precious) time.
It's something i'm seriously thinking of starting in a professional way, with PRC as the main marketing promo.
PRC products on the market, with the logo on every machine.
Sounds good to me!
Yeah Naudin was THE no.1 site in it's day, can't understand it?
Maybe he's just tired, or they are getting to him?
Well, Naudin deserves a lotta credit for building things, not just talk.
He also posted experiments/results from creating atomic hydrogen (i.e. Not H2). I was later told that Langmuir discovered atomic hydrogen's unbelieveable effects most of a century ago but may have been told to avoid further research into it because it appeared to violate laws of physics.
Anyhow, there are 3 groups I'm aware of that claim to have a solid working free energy system in development using hydrogen and nickel (or some other metallic catalyst) - Rossi, Brillouin and Defkalion. I wish they would hurry it along.......
OK, drifting a bit OT here......... I'm rather discouraged by current events but firmly believe that free energy would break the logjam of stagnation and loss of freedom in the world.
I'm hoping for a technological development that PERMANENTLY limits the Power of the State - and free energy might be it.
i believe rossi is a scam.he has had five years.
show me a working machine powering homes.then i will believe.
There's an informal group of scientists I follow in a blogspot. Their conclusion?
The effect is real, Rossi isn't. Other people wanna grab the research and run with it. The atomic hydrogen weirdness has been known for 70 years or so. The problem is how to exploit it and make it reliable. He may have stumbled on it.
Rossi & Dekaflion are the same thing.
Rossi unfortunately has been soundly debunked, check out a site called NewEnergyTimes, they've got the scoop on it.
The effect may still be real, but the evidence for it is a bit thin.....
Quotebut may have been told to avoid further research into it because it appeared to violate laws of physics.
Yep, they did that to Laithwaite & thousands of others....hell, even a fridge magnet defies the laws of physics :P
just throwed one away yesterday for obeying the laws of physics.
what seems to be their setback?if you know.
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/mahg/index.htm
Here's Naudin's work with atomic hydrogen. A genuine anomaly
This sort of thing has happened before - I believe that the Papp motor was real even though the inventor seemed like a pathological liar.
the magnetic wheel idea should work for free energy.only reason i bring it up is because of the title of the thread.
theres also the one that is someones avatar on here.
im just to lazy to build them.
i figured the mag wheel out a few years back.magnets arent cheap unless you grab them out of junk cars.
Mag motors are not easy, been working on them for years.
Progress, but not enough..
Howard Johnson was one of the more successful inventors, i happen to know his former lab assistant, i've got an MP3 of a radio interview he did.
I will try & find it for you guys, & i will make a second attempt to get him here on the forum. He is not very technical, but he can describe Johnson's motors & confirm that they actually worked.
This is getting it from the horses mouth, so to speak. We need this in order to beat the trolls & debunkers.
His name is Al Witherspoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u3fOwkiM7U
ETA: this is hardly 'breaking news' maybe we should split/move this thread into the 'free energy' area?
In the US you can get a 2000 W modifided sine wave inverter for about 200% But it might not power all devices. One friend uses one for tail gate parties. He said that it will power his TV but wont power a new crock pot with a digital display. Another friend has a solar aray and did have a wind mill that was blown down last tornado. He said he has no problem with the modified inverter. I dont know the answer.
PWM is correct in the full sine wafe inverters. Very expensive about 1$ per watt.
I was pricing them Friday.
Bless
Back
Thanks, Back!
Glad to see i'm not too out of touch ;D
(PS i will PM you with some details about those components)
I reckon we can build some pretty hefty inverters, but it will be even easier to get an off the shelf one & modify it.
Of course, if we did that, we could not sell them, but this is more for the DIY fans ;)
I think at this point we could build a few prototypes, & pass them around, so to speak ::)
I still have a couple of models in mind, advanced ones like the MEG hybrid may be worth the effort, especially if we can get them running above 100%
:o
I finally found that interview, it was hosted by Alan Sterling (of PesWiki/New Energy Systems).
This was in response to the 'Mylow' mag motor on YT.
I spoke with Mylow as it happens, it would appear that after his initial success, he was 'persuaded' to fake a second video, let it be debunked as a fake, & quietly disappeared from the public area.
That's why i decided to post it here, since this appears to be right on topic, i.e. supression.
Here you can (safely) download the Alan Sterling interview with Al Witherspoon, a.k.a. Magnetgrunt on YooToob, it's an MP3 less than 12 megs:
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/files/FreeNRG/AlWitherspoon_HowardJohnson.mp
3 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/files/FreeNRG/AlWitherspoon_HowardJohnson.mp%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E3)
Enjoy!
a successful mag wheel would have two magnetic cancelers.these kill the field at opposite sides of the wheel.
use a 9VDC battery to kill the magnets using a commutator.
Check out the Mylow motor and Howard Johnson ::)
No coils, no electricity, just permanent magnets ;)
Quote from: PLAYSWITHMACHINES link=topic=3353.msg47400#msg474000
At least, i would like to make them as cheap as possible, we could probably make them a lot cheaper than commercial ones.
Maybe go through Chine :D
Do we care if they copy them?
My theory: How To Find Free Energy
If free energy was easily available as a natural process, we wouldn't exist. The whole universe would just be a glowing mass of plasma because of all the free energy spilling out everywhere. A coherent universe requires tight conservation of energy.
And this is what we observe..... the Laws of Thermodynamics have been extensively tested and found to be precisely reliable again and again. Or have they?
I am skeptical about transients and the degree to which they have been studied. Transients look to me like a safe way to add a little energy, here and there, without being noticed. Remember, if you truly believe in the Conservation of Energy, then no extra energy has ever been added to the universe anywhere, across billions of years. It can't be created or destroyed.
I have heard of something called "Connective Physics" in which you switch things very quickly and violate physics before the universe applies the Law of Conservation of Energy.
8man, you have a point, so i would like to try & clarify what I mean as 'free energy'
Energy is always conserved, never created or destroyed, that's true.
That also means that the laws of thermodynamics (for the most part) also holds true.
But consider this: Our universe is so brimming with enrgy, it is literally flowing at terrawatts per second all around us, creating so-called Higgs particles at random, billions of times a second all around you.
This energy is also re-released into the 'quantum state' or 'vacuum' whenever such a particle 'disappears'.
So you see, all in all it equals out, energy is merely replaced with mass as per E=MC^2, so far so good.
Now, if we need something like CERN with it's own power station, and a Gigajoule capacitor bank, to produce 2 such particles (should have been just the 1 LOL) then think how much energy is flowing around us, creating & destroying these particles all around us 24/7 ?
Can we tap into that flow of energy, maybe sacrifice a few particles to power our house?
imo; Yes We Can 8) :o :-X
And the 'laws' of thermodynamics will still hold true
Zorgon: They copied our motorbikes, we copy their inverters, just stick an extra resistor in there & call it our own design :P and yes, they are welcome to copy ours, but they will first have to become members of PRC before they can see the plans ::)
My problem with 'zero-point energy' is that I never see any explanation of a necessary sink. If this energy is all around us, then we need to find a place 'where it isn't' to create a flow. If it's the same everywhere, then it's like tremendous pressure at the bottom of the ocean. How do you harness it?
If you read the stuff by Rene-Louis Vallee on the Naudin site (in French), he seems to pretty much claim what you're talking about - ionized elements yanking bits of energy out of the vacuum in the Tokamaks he worked with.
QuoteIf this energy is all around us, then we need to find a place 'where it isn't' to create a flow. If it's the same everywhere, then it's like tremendous pressure at the bottom of the ocean. How do you harness it?
It seems there are several ways, you can 'shake' it, and use the extra 'momentum' from that, or you can 'inject' a low pressure into that high pressure area & use that.
What i mean is with the water analogy, you could release air into a balloon, say 1 cubic metre.
The deeper it gets, the more 'lift' the baloon gets, on the ocean floor it can easily lift a ton.
Nature hates imbalance, & if you create (for eample an electrically) unbalanced condition, Nature will do her best to restore the balance, supplying
whatever amount of energy may be needed...
My french is awful, but i would like to know what the french PRC members can come up with..?
Tokamaks: All the rage these days it seems ::) Lucky i still got my files from the 80's ;)
the force of the bubbles lift stays the same but the volume of the bubble gets smaller.
i had a idea of an electrolisis unit at the bottom of the ocean and a conveyor that trapped the bubbles and rode their lift to the surface then were trapped and burned but i think it takes more energy to break the ho at those depths .if it took less then it may be feasible.
the bubble would be the size of a pinhead at the bottom but the size of a bus at the surface probably.
Forget the bubbles, i was just using an analogy for electricity LOL
There are many 'overunity' circuits, some based on capacitance, some on inductance, some a mixture of the two.
There would also appear to be gravity effects associated with each system, i.e.electro-gravitic, and magneto-gravitic. Hmm.......
i thought teslas idea used ground as a sink
He used it as a sink, and as a source ;)
Only one person i know of also managed that, someone called Stubblefield...
Playswithmachines wrote:
QuoteThe deeper it gets, the more 'lift' the baloon gets, on the ocean floor it can easily lift a ton.
Buoyancy displacement is very readily available, but you must take all respects of sending unit, container unit material and size.
The Buoyancy creates a natural form of inertia, due to water pressure surrounding it, as stated before, the deeper it is, the faster it wants too escape the pressures. This is mainly due to the pressures with in the containment of the air itself.
Though area/mas and Volume are the constituents of different results. The more Area/Mass or volume, the more it wants to over ride opposing pressures.
we could call it "Anti-Sinking Effect"? lol
1WW
Sorry, i was just making an analogy, that making a 'bubble' in the aether is the same as making a bubble underwater when you release gas into it.
I have released my gas & i'm feeling much better now :-[
wasnt that the problem with the bp mcondo.
do you need the pegasus crew to fly in some corexit?
is there an oil spill?
LMAO
No, but i will have to organise a 'cleanup' :D
oh yeah ,good one,cleanup,ditto
Let's not forget that many of these 'fusion' schemes don't work out.
Some of them do ;)
http://www.icontact-archive.com/jkeka-84aTF8OSwNuXIYW2W_Ka81ZmwU?w=4 (http://www.icontact-archive.com/jkeka-84aTF8OSwNuXIYW2W_Ka81ZmwU?w=4)