(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537348_144854089002762_1936314828_n.jpg)
Hope this image comes out...
Anyway, I find this to be far more useful to me than others I have encountered...
Speaking of the Ten Commandments, does anyone know the ORIGINAL Ten?
Not the ones we use today?
Come on Rdunk... this ball is in your court :P
What I find interesting is that compared to the Christian 10 commandments its saying what you should be doing compared to what you should not do
Quote from: zorgon on January 15, 2013, 11:10:28 AM
Speaking of the Ten Commandments, does anyone know the ORIGINAL Ten?
Not the ones we use today?
Come on Rdunk... this ball is in your court :P
Ten Commandments listed in Exodus 20 as given to the Children of Israel at Mount Sinai.
Young's Literal Translation
And God speaketh all these words, saying,
I [am] Jehovah thy God, who hath brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of a house of servants.
1.
Thou hast no other Gods before Me.
2.
Thou dost not make to thyself a graven image, or any likeness which [is] in the heavens above, or which [is] in the earth beneath, or which [is] in the waters under the earth. Thou dost not bow thyself to them, nor serve them: for I, Jehovah thy God, [am] a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third [generation], and on the fourth, of those hating Me, and doing kindness to thousands, of those loving Me and keeping My commands.
3.
Thou dost not take up the name of Jehovah thy God for a vain thing, for Jehovah acquitteth not him who taketh up His name for a vain thing.
4.
Remember the Sabbath-day to sanctify it; six days thou dost labour, and hast done all thy work, and the seventh day [is] a Sabbath to Jehovah thy God; thou dost not do any work, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, thy man-servant, and thy handmaid, and thy cattle, and thy sojourner who is within thy gates, -- for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and resteth in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it.
5.
Honour thy father and thy mother, so that thy days are prolonged on the ground which Jehovah thy God is giving to thee.
6.
Thou dost not murder.
7.
Thou dost not commit adultery.
8.
Thou dost not steal.
9.
Thou dost not answer against thy neighbour a false testimony.
10.
Thou dost not desire the house of thy neighbour, thou dost not desire the wife of thy neighbour, or his man-servant, or his handmaid, or his ox, or his ass, or anything which [is] thy neighbour's.
Now, with all of that said, in the New Covenant, all of that is "boiled down" to this, in Matthew 22 36-40, when Jesus was asked:
36 `Teacher, which [is] the great command in the Law?'
37 And Jesus said to him, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding --
38 this is a first and great command;
39 and the second [is] like to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself;
40 on these -- the two commands -- all the law and the prophets do hang.'
Z, is this what you had in mind, or were you thinking about something else??
Indeed, fredus, it is a positive list, not a negative one.
And as for Jesus boiling it down to loving (as opposed to being close to) Spirit/God and loving neighbors as Self... I have to fully support the second, seeing it as a manifestation of the first.
I still like the NA version better. [shrug]
After my response to Zorg's request,I gave some thought to this OP. I basically began to wonder, just where did these "Native American 10 Commandments come from, and WHY 10?? Just knowing there are quite a few different Indian Nations, and a real multitude of different tribes, all over this country, how ever could such a diverse group and grouping of a people decide upon "10 Commandments", and from whence would these "Commandments to the Native Americans" come from.
Well, I began to look on the net for more information, and for the most part, there is not much information on these. The N/A Commandments are being mentioned a lot, but no one seems to talk about, nor know, where they came from. While I am not going to spend a lot of tme looking, with some of the things I saw, i began to get the impression that just maybe these N/A 10 Commandments were "white man derived"..............I said just my impression from what I was seeing.
I finally did run across some really direct comments on the Native American 10 commandments. These were being made on another forum in July 2011. I am posting here one persons comments. I am not including the commentor's user-name here, but is does appear to possibly be Native American. In any case, I was impressed by the frankness his thoughts, so, I am going to include them here for you too.
In addition, I will include a link to that forum discussion, in case anyone might be interested in seeing the entire conversation.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/archive/index.php/t-24163.html
Here is what this one person had to say:
Sometimes the lack of our common sense and ability to paint complex topics with very broad strokes astounds me.
Come on guys there were hundreds of Indian Nations and within those nations there were thousands of tribes or "pockets" of each particular Nation. Each Nation was mostly defined by where they lived on the continent and certain characteristics . . . the "tribes" within each nation were further defined by the certain elders or leaders.
Some Indian Nations were extremely peaceful and some were very brutal. Before the "white man" arrived the different Nations were at war with each other. The more peaceful Nations were already being pushed out and thinned by the more aggressive Nations.
To think that all the Native Americans were somehow these all loving, all wise, all ultimate spiritual didn't fight for possessions or land or control is absurd.
The stronger more aggressive nations promoted war and would "raid" other nations as well as their own neighboring tribes (within their own nation) to "take" that tribes or nations possessions, their WOMEN, their land.
Mankind . . . no HUMANkind . . . has been and it looks like will always be the same in this dimension . . . in this fold of time.
They are and were human . . . only different color skin . . . . same dna . . . . same strengths . . . same weakness.
The invasion of white man gave them a different enemy to somewhat unify together and fight the more common enemy. Kind of like nato huh?? Or perhaps like all the NATIONS of the WORLD will when we are "invaded" by what we view as a common enemy.
I love the beautiful "guidelines" in the OP and they are wise words . . . . but they are no more Native American than other wise and beautiful thoughts from other "nations" of the world.
As long as we live our lives and generations with guilt, anger, resentment, hatred against one another and ALLOW ourselves to be DIVIDED we will never move forward . . . and the "thinking" that somehow the Native Americans are more "worthy" than other humans is an example of one of the more dangerous divisions.
2nd July 2011, 15:37
Okay I did a bit more research on the OP and the link posted. And frankly I'm a bit pissed.
These "commandments" were loosely based on a speech made by Chief Seattle 1854 of the Duwamish or Squamish Tribe. The speech he made is very controversial on whether he actually gave it or exactly what he said.
The person that posted these "commandments" on this humansarefree.com link is exactly what I spoke about in my above post. He has none of the facts and "pushed" what few around so irresponsibly to "try" to make a point based on his OWN thoughts, opinions and BS.
Further more he took a very beautiful painting of Howard Terpning and cropped part of it out so it would better suit his needs. This painting is even of the Blackfoot and is of the council of chiefs of the Blackfoot Nation coming together to discuss WAR. Against who is unclear. The person posting cropped out the two warriors that were the more "war like" looking because heaven forbid we be truthful and represent actual history.
Quote from: zorgon on January 15, 2013, 11:10:28 AM
Speaking of the Ten Commandments, does anyone know the ORIGINAL Ten?
Not the ones we use today?
Come on Rdunk... this ball is in your court :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk
This is what really happened!
Id adopt those ten you posted in the OP, Amy, before any of the versions spewed forth by the various multitude of Moses's and other symbolic figures in religious history. Many of who were allegorical and metaphorical..not real.
Non existent persons cannot bear commandments.
Native Americans actually existed..and that makes these ten a great guideline to go by.
Thank You for Your research efforts, Dave. To be sure, regardless of the origins, the sentiment is good and pure.
I did note that the motive to war - even amongst the NA - is...PROFIT! And, as My sig says...if You want peace, take the profit out of war.