Moon water complicates formation theory
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535561_545711805459217_828163287_n.jpg)
ANN ARBOR, Mich., Feb. 18 (UPI) -- The interior of the moon contained water early in its history, suggesting the formation theories of the moon may have to be re-thought, U.S. researchers say.
University of Michigan researchers and colleagues found tiny amounts of water in mineral grains from samples from the lunar highlands obtained during the Apollo missions.
The lunar highlands are thought to represent the original crust that crystallized from a mostly molten early moon, suggesting the lunar interior contained water during this molten stage before the crust solidified, a university release said Monday.
That's difficult to reconcile with the theory that the moon formed from the debris generated during a giant impact with the proto-Earth and any water in lunar rocks was added after its formation by smaller meteorite impacts or solar wind.
"Because these are some of the oldest rocks from the moon, the water is inferred to have been in the moon when it formed," UM researcher Youxue Zhang said. "That is somewhat difficult to explain with the current popular moon-formation model, in which the moon formed by collecting the hot ejecta as the result of a super-giant impact of a martian-size body with the proto-Earth.
"Under that model, the hot ejecta should have been degassed almost completely, eliminating all water."
The new findings, however, indicate the early moon was wet and that water there was not substantially lost during the moon's formation, the researchers said.
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2013/02/18/Moon-water-complicates-formation-theory/UPI-20701361222471/
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2013/02/18/Moon-water-complicates-formation-theory/UPI-20701361222471/#ixzz2LTga6Qg8
Rock with water in it would have more mass than rock without.
This increase in mass would give priority to the wet rock clumping first.
I don't believe the moon was formed from ejected plasma from earth.
But I don't have a clue where the rock came from.
It's a spaceship... And the rock was whatever was handy to disguise it as a natural body.
Hi Robo,
Im no expert and may be making things over complex :),
but when comparing say two samples of the same volume..as to which has the heavier mass.. that of sample 1) the pure Rock without water... against sample 2) that with water..
if two of the samples were measured in the same volume ..
Depending if the Rock is heavier than water ..( Which we probably would expect )
it may depend upon how the Rocks / minerals density or mass
compares to that of Water and if it has holes in it for water to combine in it...or if it contains air or empty space...
Otherwise I am somewhat unsure what to make of it...
-----------------------------------
Quote from: robomont on February 19, 2013, 11:31:03 PM
Rock with water in it would have more mass than rock without.
This increase in mass would give priority to the wet rock clumping first.
I don't believe the moon was formed from ejected plasma from earth.
But I don't have a clue where the rock came from.
Quote from: astr0144 on February 20, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
it may depend upon how the Rocks / minerals density or mass
compares to that of Water and if it has holes in it for water to combine in it...or if it contains air or empty space...
That's easy to know, throw a rock on water and see if it floats, if it does then it's lighter than water.
The only rock that I can remember that is lighter than water is pumice.
Quote from: Amaterasu on February 20, 2013, 12:24:24 AM
It's a spaceship... And the rock was whatever was handy to disguise it as a natural body.
Right on!....It was engineered and towed into place!.....
Or flown into place... [smile] I don't think it is a natural body.
Quote from: Amaterasu on February 20, 2013, 12:24:24 AM
And the rock was whatever was handy to disguise it as a natural body.
Wrong. Not just whatever was handy :P
The surface is covered with regolith that just happens to contain;
Thorium Oxide; A cleaner nuclear fuel
Titanium Oxide; To make spaceship hulls
Silicon Dioxide; o make glass (fiber glass)
HE3 - Helium 3; a safe clean nuclear fusion fuel with enough there to power the planet for 10,000 years or more.
The oxides can be mined by simple scoops and use solar reflectors as ovens. The by product is OXYGEN for breathing, fuel and making water
So its a present :D We just need to go and scoop up the dust
U.S. Department of Defense
Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Public Affairs)
News Transcript
Tuesday, December 3, 1996 - 1:45 p.m.
Subject: Discovery of Ice on the MoonWarning. .gov linkhttp://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=731Q: That translates to what in volume?A: We were very conservative in the press release, but if you take basically 100 square kilometers by roughly 50 feet, you get a volume of something like a quarter of a cubic mile, I think it's on that order. It's a considerable amount, but it's not a huge glacier or anything like that.Q: Can you compare that with something you know?
A: It's a lake. A small lake. (http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535561_545711805459217_828163287_n.jpg)
So Zorgon,
Do you think that the moon was towed to its present position ?
Is the spaceship that may have brought it here hid on the far side ?
Read an article earlier suggesting China may soon release photos of what they really found ! ???
Maybe just rumour !
(I was sent some pictures by a source who claims China will be releasing Hi Res images taken by the Chang'e-2 moon orbiter, which clearly show buildings and structures on the moons surface.
China is moving toward full disclosure of the Extraterrestrial reality.)
Would be nice but I don't trust China :P They fakes the Shen Zhou 7 spacewalk (filmed under water and they aired the 'live' transmission on Thursday when the launch was supposed to be Friday... said it was a 'technical error' :P. I also have it from a good source that there was no launch til Sunday, a small military rocket). They showed us one image from the first moon mission. That was copied from Clementine and they even messed up splicing, claiming they had found a new crater, but it was an overlay error
So not holding my breath on any Chinese revelation :D
Both John and Norm Bertrand say it was towed. We did a thread back on ATS looking for the spot where the tow ship is supposed to be buried :D
'(I was sent some pictures by a source who claims China will be releasing Hi Res images taken by the Chang'e-2 moon orbiter, which clearly show buildings and structures on the moons surface.'
Hell, I thought I did that already! ::)
Sorry if I missed them Sgt..
I have seen images on various threads that make claims of bases on the moon, but most do not seem very convincing from what I could see..
So it put me off looking at Moon Base posts...
This was posted with what I read elsewhere today and to me this seems much more realistic if it is not been faked... I can certainly make out some sort of city and clearer images on this video.
If you have posted images to do with this...or similar...my apologies for missing them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKadoX3rfcE&feature=player_embedded
Just joking ;)
Here's my stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SgtRocknRoll?feature=mhee
& here:
http://sergentrocknroll.blogspot.com/
Hi Sgt,
As I mentioned in my earlier post, having looked at some various moon images in the past, I was never too sure about much of what was being suggested from the researchers suggestions of what they had believed to observe...
Mainly down to the fact that the images were just not clear enough for me to agree with them... as often the moon images were not sharp and often had a lot of black shadow..
So unless I could see something that I really thought was "real like" I often do not waste too much time observing them.
I just had a browse through your youtube and website videos...
and from what I can see initially looks quite impressive in what you have been involved in...and IF what you are showing is real then great work in finding these objects / Anomalies.. I can see many a thing that you indicate with the software that you have been using which looks impressive...
( I am curious what software it is and How you obtain the moon images)
BUT again, I will say that I still find from what I have seen so far , that the moon images are not clear enough for me to really make a conclusion..and to fully agree that what you are trying to demonstrate is real or not...
( I suppose its like trying to determine if a UFO is real or not which can be difficult )
I will say that I was rather impressed with that Video that I referred to in my previous message that was posted on GLPs..
That to me looked much clearer and convincing for some reason even though I believe that it is old footage... I really get the impression that it could be real...as the buildings and base stand out...
I note that you asked John about it and that his reply did not seem too positive about it...I am not sure how he concludes on it ! ..
(Here is what it says:...
Possible Alien Moon Base Captured By Chang'e-2 Orbit)
Johns reply....
The video always came up as Private. But there are no such "Moon Bases"
Can I ask what you made of it ? and how you think it compares to the other bases and buildings that you believe to have come across..
===========================
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 20, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Just joking ;)
Here's my stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SgtRocknRoll?feature=mhee
& here:
http://sergentrocknroll.blogspot.com/
Thanks for at least looking at my videos. Most of the time I try not to pass judgement on what I'm seeing. I'm just pointing out items that I think are interesting. I have seen actual objects such as buildings, an excavator, what looks like mining operations , roads, spheres, a spaceport & other items. A lot are just geological formations.
The software I use is Autocad. I'm a 3d mechanical designer by trade. I reference in the photo and then basically draw on top of the photo.
As to where I get my photos, well NASA, Apollo archives, Lunar orbiter and LROC sites. John has sent me a number of ones and asked me to take a look to see if I spot anything. Other members here have posted photos with interesting items.
I do spend a lot of time scanning and downloading photos . I have a lot of storage space so I like to download large hi-res photos to study.
As far as the 'moon base' video on GLP. it looks faked to me. Almost 'game' like if you know what I mean. Most of these videos are not pro-active so to speak. I try to maneuver around the photo even rotate items. And I always identify the photo by number and I use the full original photo when possible.
Once again, thanks.
Peace
Rock 8)
(UPDATE)
Just tried to answer John on GLP and I guess I'm banned again, cause they won't post my reply to John....
Hi Sgt,
Thanks for the explanation...
Yes I can see that you certainly have pointed out items that are of interest and that certainly makes one question...One or two that I came across in an initial browse certainly stood out as unusual.
In one way your saying that you try not to pass judgement, BUT you then say that you
have seen actual objects.
So that suggests to me that you do believe some are genuine and believe that they exist..
So I am curious what you have seen that has convinced you that it was for real.
I certainly would not doubt that they exist and maybe would feel that 80% or more that they do...but I have yet to be highly convinced by a image or picture..
I don't spend time or watch many games these days , so its hard to compare the GLPs video with game type imagery. And I would probably be thinking more of the more modern type gaming images..Much clearer and in color...The GLP Video appears old black and white...
After re watching it again more closely...I note that they alter the contrast lighting, so maybe that its a bit suspect.. as well as when you look at some of the buildings, they may appear planted into the image and slightly darker than the surrounding moon features.
I recall your comments with your Mechanical designer background and Autocad when you did that Sports Model S4 Saucer design !...
But I did not realize that you could also use it on photos / images like you have used it in your videos.... 8)
So now I know where you get the photos from... and that John asks you to use your software to analyze them for him... :) Interesting !
Cheers...
Astr0
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 22, 2013, 04:22:33 AM
Thanks for at least looking at my videos. Most of the time I try not to pass judgement on what I'm seeing. I'm just pointing out items that I think are interesting. I have seen actual objects such as buildings, an excavator, what looks like mining operations , roads, spheres, a spaceport & other items. A lot are just geological formations.
The software I use is Autocad. I'm a 3d mechanical designer by trade. I reference in the photo and then basically draw on top of the photo.
As to where I get my photos, well NASA, Apollo archives, Lunar orbiter and LROC sites. John has sent me a number of ones and asked me to take a look to see if I spot anything. Other members here have posted photos with interesting items.
I do spend a lot of time scanning and downloading photos . I have a lot of storage space so I like to download large hi-res photos to study.
As far as the 'moon base' video on GLO. it looks faked to me. Almost 'game' like if you know what I mean. Most of these videos are not pro-active so to speak. I try to maneuver around the photo even rotate items. And I always identify the photo by number and I use the full original photo when possible.
Once again, thanks.
Peace
Rock 8)
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 22, 2013, 04:22:33 AM
As far as the 'moon base' video on GLP. it looks faked to me.
That's because it's a fake, the original is Lunar Orbiter Frame 3085 (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/lunarorbiter/images/preview/3085_med.jpg).
Somehow ArMap, I knew you'd chime in and set the record straight. I was just trying not to sound too 'know it all', if you know what I mean. I've proven over and over that I really don't know anything... ;D
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 22, 2013, 02:32:57 PM
I was just trying not to sound too 'know it all', if you know what I mean. I've proven over and over that I really don't know anything... ;D
Don't sell yourself short Sgt. your contribution to this field has been very insightful and invaluable for the research involved, with your talents andyour keen eye for details, we have seen many things brought out with both of these attributes you have, both on a professional and humbling scale. You are a great guy and have busted your nuts getting out what I believe to be pertinent and significant for discussion, and I am sure John would agree. If it weren't for you chiming in with these talent, we would have never been able to carry on over 3 dozens of pages of discussions over this issue of the lunar surface being not only occupied but also possibly being mined for it's precious resources.
As for the moon being a "Spacecraft" type of ideology? I am, personally, out for explanation if this is fact or theory gone arye, not saying it "CAN'T" be possible, but with out us getting up there ourselves, we have to lead for speculation and possibilities this may be true. Hell, haven't gotten the truths via NAZA or any other facility that has such privy information to lay the law down for us to resolve the issue.
'Z' had mentioned the evidence they had found of the craft that had towed into place, this is something I have seen over at the other place. Compelling and at the same time very confusing with people saying they have debunked it as shadow and light play for what it is, there again, we need to go there ourselves to absolutely prove any of it's validity and bring this too rest once and for all.
If scientists are disclosing they are finding H2O on the lunar surface, and with the current understanding of how the moon was "POSSIBLY" formed with computer animation and simulations, it is likely that, like the Earth, the moon was pocked with thousands of H2O laydened comets, asteroids and meteorites, which we know can be vessels of all things Spacial and Earthly acclimated.
'Z' had also pointed out of the vital importance of every compound available on the lunar surface with in it's regilith and the importance of each of those to a particular use with in atmospheric and manufacturing scenario, for that, I see things as a strong feasibility for the whole ""Residents" on the lunar surface more viable and more understandable as to the why they would even be there. With John's evidence, the research done by so many over this topic, there has too be something too it all too drive such a passion to get to the bottom of this current "Theory" and being factual to some extent for personal disclosure of the fact we were really never alone as "Humans" as we think we are.
In the coming days, I do believe we are going to get too the bottom of it all, but for the mean time, we are the researchers with ground based good old Terra fir-ma too review, speculate and deduce until that time comes when the people who really know trust enough to tell us the truth. Where as in their inability to tell us the truth has developed into the same distrust they had originally with us, but instilled upon them. Sure there are the men of the past and of the present, and hopefully the future that did want to tell the world, bu that hasn't happened yet, which is very sad, for advancement of this speculation and too be able to fully acknowledge that we are are on the lower rung's of the intellectual tree.
1WW
Thanks 1WW for the kind words, it is really appreciated. I know there are people on here that know a hell of a lot more than I do and the learned folks at Pegasus really humble me. I just try to 'chip in' from time to time with my meager talents and intellect. Once again thank you.
@astr0144
"I recall your comments with your Mechanical designer background and Autocad when you did that Sports Model S4 Saucer design !...
But I did not realize that you could also use it on photos / images like you have used it in your videos.... "
This is a short vid on how I do it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCaVGGPdYho
Hi Sgt,
Thanks for posting your demo vid...Its good to get some idea how its done and it looks a good piece of software...
1 WW made some interesting comments..and no doubt there has been a lot suggested about the Moon Anomalies and its a main interest of Johns.
I get the impression from looking on the related forums that Aristarchus crater could be one of the main point of interest..
IF I recall you had done a good Video on it on your youtube site that shows indepth detail of what you believe it may be.
I noted Johns recent comments to your latest post on GLPs and assume that he was being sarcastic and not changing his views when he says that there is no air or gravity , structures etc :)
I have followed some of Johns stuff on and off over some time, but may not know his stuff well enough in some areas to make better judgements..
Sometimes John answers in a serious in depth manner then every now and again he may say something that does not seem to match expectations...If you are not aware of this, newbies may take his comments the wrong way...
Hes added some recent comments that I have not come across before..
I wonder if he would object if some of this was posted within his thread on P.R.C.. that may make good discussion .
==============================
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 22, 2013, 06:44:37 PM
Thanks 1WW for the kind words, it is really appreciated. I know there are people on here that know a hell of a lot more than I do and the learned folks at Pegasus really humble me. I just try to 'chip in' from time to time with my meager talents and intellect. Once again thank you.
@astr0144
"I recall your comments with your Mechanical designer background and Autocad when you did that Sports Model S4 Saucer design !...
But I did not realize that you could also use it on photos / images like you have used it in your videos.... "
This is a short vid on how I do it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCaVGGPdYho
No he was being sarcastic. And thanks for the comments Btw. Most of what I believe about the moon, I've gotten from reading John's work and insight.
As far as moving the topic, it doesn't matter to me. Whatever the Mods want to do is fine with me.
Rock
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on February 23, 2013, 03:48:35 AM
No he was being sarcastic. And thanks for the comments Btw. Most of what I believe about the moon, I've gotten from reading John's work and insight.
Yes, John has been the for most representative of what there is on the lunar surface. I was introduced to him back in 2005-6 and have been mesmerized by what he had brought out as very tangible evidence.
Since meeting John, I have been a member of some sort of Lunar research group since realizing his testimonies of there being possible lost civilizations and an industrial possibility for the Lunar surface, it has become obvious too me that there is something to the theory, or his epiphany, as too all this being a very tangible fact.
So Sgt., just as you, I was totally unaware of all these possibilities of there being anything remotely close to there being possible civilization on our Lunar surface, as the evidence has presented itself throughout the years I have researched this feasibility aspect, there is no doubt in my personal thoughts that there is irrefutable evidence supporting this not of being "Theory" prey tell, but actual physical presence left behind by seemingly "None Natural" anomalies on the surface.
Further research of the Lunar surface that we have discovered thus far by way of chemical analysis and available resources, being backed up with research such as you, Sgt., have offered thus far, it is a pretty much cut and dry case for the evidence presented at hand that there was or "IS" a civilization farming the Lunar body for many possible resources. And isn't it Ironic that one of the major elements available just happens to be the most sought after element on our planet for alternative fuel resources? LOL Says a lot too support the importance of being able to find out, once and for all, if there are a lost civilization occupying our closest natural satellite.
QuoteAs far as moving the topic, it doesn't matter to me. Whatever the Mods want to do is fine with me.
I hope they don't move this conversation Sgt. . there is credence for speculation with in all aspects of the possibilities of these theories being factual, and the H2O association is only a part of the big picture, IMHO.
I f I would have never met Zorgon, Matayas (Janitor), John Lear, ArMap and the rest of our cronies here, I would have been absolutely naive too all we are discussing about these tremendously valuable insight of understanding ourselves as a species, and where we lay on the food chain for intellectual prowess and understanding.
With your evidence you bring to the table for visual investigation Sgt. is indispensable for furthering our understanding. And if there is anyone reading this thread that has any questions as too how we conclude to these events being very practical and apparently "Visual" on our Lunar surface, viewed with healthy skepticism but with open mind, they too will see the light. Wish we could get up there and take a looksie for ourselves and snap some surface shots!! LOL ;)
1WW