The wreck of the Lutine.
(continued from the coincidence thread (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=950.msg11547#msg11547))
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/lut1.jpg)
It was easy enough to find the co-ordinates, but finding the gold is another thing.
At least where the ship sank is well known, but the gold had apparently fell through the broken ship & a great deal was buried under it, most of what has been found, was lying outside the wreckage.
We are very lucky to have even this sketch, as the swiftly-moving sandbanks buried it still further, and then a botched attempt in 1938 with a huge dredger churned up the whole area to a depth of 100 feet, destroying any archeological evidence that remained.
The guy who did it recovered only a single gold ingot for his pains, which he proudly displays (it is often contested that this too was a fake, that the man had actually found nothing, but produced this fake ingot to appease the archaologists & locals, who were understandably upset).See the Wiki text below..
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/lut3.JPG)
Billiton, well well..............
From Wiki;
QuoteThe site of the wreck
The site of the wreck, the Vlie, was notorious for its strong currents and the danger of storms forcing ships onto the shore. The area is composed of sandbanks and shoals, which the currents continuously shift, with channels through them: in 1666, during the Second Anglo-Dutch War, Admiral Holmes had managed to penetrate these shoals and start Holmes's Bonfire, surprising the Dutch who had considered the shoals impassable. The depth of water also constantly changes, and this has caused much of the difficulty in salvage attempts.
Lutine was wrecked in a shallow channel called the IJzergat, which has now completely disappeared, between the islands of Vlieland and Terschelling. Immediately after Lutine sank, the wreck began silting up, forcing an end to salvage attempts by 1804. By chance, it was discovered in 1857 that the wreck was again uncovered, but covered again in 1859. The wreck was probably partially uncovered between 1915 and 1916, although no salvage was attempted because of World War I.[citation needed]
[edit] The goldThe gold was insured by Lloyd's of London, which paid the claim in full. The underwriters therefore owned the gold under rights of abandonment and later authorised attempts to salvage it. However, because of the state of war, the Dutch also laid claim to it as a prize of war.
Captain Portlock was instructed by the Admiralty on 29 October 1799 to try to recover the cargo for the benefit of the persons to whom it belongs;[8]
Lloyd's also sent agents to look over the wreck. The Committee for the
Public Properties of Holland instructed the local Receivers of Wrecks to report on the wreck, and F.P. Robbé, the Receiver on Terschelling, was authorised in December 1799 to begin salvage operations. All three parties had drawn attention to the difficulty of salvage due to the unfavourable position of the wreck and lateness of the year. At this point, the wreck was lying in approximately 7.5 metres (25 ft) of water.
In 1821, Robbé's successor as Receiver at Terschelling, Pierre Eschauzier successfully petitioned King William I and by royal decree received the sole rightto attempt the further salvage of the cargo of the English frigate, the Lutine, which foundered between Terrschelling and Vlieland in the year 1799, proceeding from London and bound for Hamburg, and having a very considerable capital on board, consisting of gold and silver as well as thousands of Spanish coins, believed to amount in all to 20 million Dutch guilders.
In return, the state would receive half of all recoveries. Eschauzier and his heirs therefore became the owners of the wreck by royal decree and thus are known as the 'Decretal Salvors'.
In 1821, Eschauzier put together a syndicate with the intention of using a diving bell manned by amphibicque Englishmen. However, Mr. Rennie, the engineer died that year; in 1822, the bell arrived at the end of June, but operations were frustrated by bad weather and silting-up of the wreck; at this stage the wreck was reckoned to be 1 metre (3 ft 3 in) under the sand. Although salvage attempts continued until 1829, little was gained and the bell was sold on to the Dutch navy. In 1835, the sandbank covering Lutine shrank and moved southwards, with the depth of water being 9–10 metres (30–33 ft) and desultory attempts at salvage were made
Further attempts to raise capital were largely unsuccessful.
In 1857, it was discovered by chance that "a channel had formed straight across the Goudplaat sandbank, leading over the wreck, so that the latter was not merely clear of sand but had also sunk further below the surface with the channel [...] the bows and stern, together with the decks and sides, had come completely away, leaving only the keel with the keelson above it and some ribs attached to this".[16]
Recovery work immediately recommenced, now using helmeted divers (helmduikers) and bell divers (klokduikers), the latter using a bell called the Hollandsche Duiker ('Dutch diver'). However, a large number of unauthorised salvors also displayed an interest, which led the Dutch government to station a gunboat in the area. Over the course of the season approximately 20,000 guilders-worth of specie was recovered.
The 1858 season was hampered by poor weather but yielded 32 gold bars and 66 silver bars. In 1859 it became apparent that the treasure had been stored towards the stern of the ship, and that the stern was lying on its side, with the starboard side uppermost and the port side sunk into the sand. This area, however, only gave up 4 gold bars, 1 silver bar, and over 3,500 piastres.
By 1860, the depth of the wreck had reached 14 metres (46 ft) and the quantity of salvage was declining. Nonetheless, over the four years salvage worth half a million guilders had been recovered: 41 gold bars, 64 silver bars, and 15,350 various coins, and the syndicate paid a 136% return; attempts were finally ended in 1863 as the wreck again silted up.
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/lut4.JPG)
QuoteIn 1867, an inventor, Willem Hendrik ter Meulen, proposed using a 'zandboor' ('sand drill'), a device which forced water into the sandy sea bed in order to clear a way for a helmet diver[17] and signed a three-year contract, subsequently extended for another three years and then a further twenty years.
The plan was that when the depth of water reached 7 metres (23 ft), the machine would be used to excavate the same depth of sand down onto the wreck. Ter Meulen bought a steel-hulled, paddlewheel-driven 50 h.p. steam tug, Antagonist. The engine was modified such that it could be disconnected from the paddlewheels and used to drive the centrifual 'whirlpool' pump. The pump was capable of pumping water at a rate of 21.5 cubic metres per minute (760 cu ft/min), but tests showed that 1.5 cubic metres per minute (53 cu ft/min) was sufficient, and the 'zandboor' took only a couple of minutes to penetrate through to the wreck. It was also found that the sand did not collapse once the diver descended through the drilled hole into the cavity excavated by the machine.
Unfortunately, the wreck remained heavily silted up, with the depth of water varying between a high of 2 metres (6 ft 7 in) (in 1873) to a low of 5 metres (16 ft) (in 1868 and again in 1884). However, ter Meulen was responsible for re-establishing the landmarks used for taking transits of the wreck site and for establishing its position: WikiMiniAtlas Coordinates: 53°20'35"N 5°01'34"E / 53.34306°N 5.02611°E / 53.34306; 5.02611.
In 1886 a cannon was salvaged and presented by Lloyd's to Queen Victoria: it is now on display at Windsor Castle. Another was offered to the City of London Corporation and is on display at the Guildhall, London. A final cannon was passed to the Lloyd's sports club in Essex.
More are on display in Amsterdam's Stedelijk Museum, and at least four are in Terschelling. A number of coins and small relics were recovered to the value of £700.[18]
In 1891 a few small coins were found.[19]
In 1896 a cannon was presented to Queen Wilhelmina.[20]
In 1898 two hundred weight of timber was recovered from which a chair was made for Lloyd's of London.[21]
After 1860 to 1889 attempts at salvage are reported to have recovered 11,164 coins valued at $4,600.[22]
In 1911 a Salvage Company was organized to salvage the reported treasure.[23] In 1912 this effort is reported to have recovered silver coins, cannon, cannon balls, grapeshot and an anchor but no treasure.[24]
In 1913 the two bower anchors, carried at the ship's bow, each weighing 3,900 kilograms (8,600 lb) were recovered and put on display in Amsterdam. Consideration was given by Lloyd's to setting the anchors up as a monument behind the Royal Exchange in place of a statue to Sir Robert Peel, but this was not carried out and only the wooden stocks, marked Lutine were forwarded to Lloyd's.
Reportedly the outbreak of World War I prevented another salvage attempt.[25]
In 1933 at attempt was made to salvage the reported treasure but was stopped when the salvage bell was wrecked by a World War I sea mine.[26][27]
In 1934 an attempt was made to salvage the reported treasure.[28]
In 1938 an attempt was made to salvage the reported treasure.[29] 1 gold bar found[30]
Source:
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Lutine_(1779)#The_Lutine_Bell)
I also found another site, but it turned out to be a word-for-word rip of the Wiki page :P
There is a very good book on the subject;
Van Der Molen's book (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0229974821?tag=thespacedirec-%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E21&camp=1406&creative=6394&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0229974821&adid=0NRG2VK20HWZWZ0KZJ6R&&ref-refURL=http%%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E3A%2F%2Fwww.detecting.org.uk%2Fhtml%2FLutine_Shipwreck.html)
My research so far indicates a few small inconsistencies in the wiki page.
The Lutine was bound for Hamburg, with a huge bailout package for the stricken traders there (sound familiar?) but never reached it's goal. I'm not a sailor, but she seems to have been way off course to begin with. This may have been an attempt to 'hug the coast' & so avoid enemy ships in the open sea.....
The second item in Wiki's 'suggested reading' list just jumps out at you;
Kindleberger, Charles P. (1978) Manias, Panics, and Crashes: A History of Financial Crises, ch.6. (ISBN 0-471-16192-6)
Then there is the number of survivors, originally 2 or 3 men, it was later reported to be only the captain (Skynner) who survived, and then only for a short while. There is a gravestone with his name on it on Vlieland....
Shall we dig deeper?
QuoteEschauzier's attempts spurred Lloyd's to approach the British government to defend their rights to the wreck. In 1823, King William revised by subsequent decree the original decree: everything which "had been reserved to the state from the cargo of the above-mentioned frigate" was ceded to the King of Great Britain as a token "of our friendly sentiments towards the Kingdom of Great Britain, and by no means out of a conviction of England's right to any part of the aforementioned cargo."[11]
This share was subsequently ceded back to Lloyd's.{when?}
That last was added by someone..
QuoteLloyd's records were destroyed by fire* in 1838, and the actual amount of the gold lost is now unknown. In 1858 Lloyd's estimated the total value at £1,200,000**, made up of both silver and gold. Despite extended operations, over £1,000,000 remains to be salvaged. An uncorroborated newspaper report in 1869 referred to the Dutch crown jewels being on board.
* How convenient ::)
** It seems there are several other values, i have another source quoting the 'Lloyd's
half of the share was 900,000 Dutch guilders.
So it seems the last 'official' attempt was in 1938 and no-one has been down there since??
The dutch museum on the island claims that there were several attempts made after the war, but they found nothing.
At least i'm getting more info from the source than i am from Wiki :P
The last entry in the Diver's log from 1866 showing all that was recovered in the period from August 20 to October 9;
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/lut2.jpg)
3,304 silver spanish piasters.
35 half piasters.
71 quarter piasters.
3 1/8 piasters (pieces of eight ;))
1 Primatus dollar (?)
3 Gold 'primatus dollars'.
6 quarter-dollars.
5 1/8 dollars.
21 double Louis d'or.
42 single Louis d'or.
7 whole guineas.
9 Sicilian gold coins.
1 large Sicilian gold coin.
9 unknown silver coins.
50 copper coins.
1 broken case (piasters).
Total: 3,568 coins.
The last estimate says there was but 1.5-2 million recovered from the (estimated) 15 million that was on the ship.
If that was the estimate at time of going to press (1986) or the estimate from 1880 i don't yet know, in any case it must be about
50-100 million dollars todayQuoteIn October 1799 she was employed in carrying about £1,200,000 (equivalent to £81,176,969 in 2007)
With the value of gold today, that's about 100 million reasons to go back with some GPR & some metal-detectors on steroids, and maybe a few divers on steroids as well :P
A small selection of the ships wrecked to date;
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/saved.jpg)
Picture of the harbour anno 1730's;
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/1730.jpg)
And again in 1930;
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/inventors_group/images/ODD/1930.jpg)
Source (http://www.behouden-huys.nl/pages/sub/53759/Redding_Loodswezen_en_Betonning.html)
Enjoy!
Ahhhhh! Nice info. Coincidentally I just purchases a metal detector a couple days ago. Have you seen the TV show Meteor Men?
They build these large loops and find stuff that is pretty deep with them. That would work in the ocean too. 30-33 ft deep isn't very deep. I did some scuba diving in the Navy.
(http://media.knoxnews.com/media/img/photos/2013/01/29/227178_t607.JPG)
Gold is scattered across the bottom off of Nome Alaska. Look how close to shore they are.....these guys have had numerous 100+ ounce clean outs this season. That's a pretty pile of GOLD! I have ideas for a modified dredge...
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/christine-rose-pictures0.jpg)
Cosmo