Pegasus Research Consortium

Those familiar with Velikovsky's 'Worlds in Collision'

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a2/Wic-cover.jpg)


And Sitchin's 'The 12th Planet'

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5512/1755/1600/the%2012th%20planet%20book%20I%20of%20the%20Earth%20Chronicles.0.jpg)


...will be familiar with evidence presented from ancient texts describing a 'war' between the planets occurred when an undiscovered planet beyond Neptune that now  follows a long, elliptical orbit, came tearing through our solar system causing major havoc and continues to do so roughly every 3,600 years.


(http://www.bobthealien.co.uk/orbits.gif)


(http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/images/Nibiru-orbit.jpg)



The carnage created in our solar system to various planets the first time some monster planet came through is pretty evident even today, ancient texts aside.

The carnage inflicted on earth is said to be great floods among other things.



The question then becomes - when this alleged monster returns, how severe can we expect the impact on earth to be this time around?

Will it even come close to earth this time or perhaps pass by farther away?

Or will it perhaps come even closer?  :o


(http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Astronomy-1360/2010/03/orbit-planet-x.jpg)



The bad news is the former is not likely to happen.

The power and precision of Gravity B is pretty evident when viewed over time -


(http://www.sos.siena.edu/~jcummings/teaching/astronomy/lectures/reveal.js-master/ch06.figs/hildaorb.gif)


However orbits do -gradually- change over time due to external influences and loss of inertia.

Meaning that the effects should be very similar to the last orbit but probably slightly stronger or weaker than last time.



There is a device that allows us to observe the power and precision of Gravity B first hand, called a Foucault pendulum -

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Foucault_pendulum_in_the_Franklin_Institute.jpg)



We used to have one of these locally with an ornate pattern in marble similar to the one above.

As they swing they gradually change direction due to the rotation of the earth and knock down dominoes (usually) one by one -


(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/2371164097_c20e050ff0.jpg)


Here is one in action at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry... now imagine it being Planet X and passing through our solar system on subsequent visits  :o   


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqpV1236_Q0

51, I am going to speculate as many others have, that a massive object such as a rogue planet would have to have a very low albedo, since there aren't any reports from the astronomers... unless of course it is coming in at a tangent to the solar plane... :o

so tell us, what else does grav b research indicate, please. 8)


seeker

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 09, 2013, 04:35:13 AM
The carnage created in our solar system to various planets the first time some monster planet came through is pretty evident even today, ancient texts aside.

The carnage inflicted on earth is said to be great floods among other things.

I'm not familiar with those books (besides the titles and author's names), what kind of "carnage" did it inflict?

Well, maybe the books give some facts, but in discussing planets Earth and X, aren't we thinking about two "universal magnets"? Now, just how do magnets react to one another?? Couldn't we first think about our neighbor magnet, the Moon, and that associated "reaction"? Even with the Moon's piddly gravity, doesn't it "drive the tides" on this Earth? Then what might we expect from another nearby (relative) body with 100 times the gravitational force of the Moon? 1000 times? Even 1000 times Earth's gravity?

Maybe more to great movements of ocean water? Maybe pole shifts, as magnets do move each other around? Can't we consider assuming, that if a very large planetary object got close enough, it could just attract Earth right too itself, as magnets do?

"Catastrophic" just may not be the defining word, for the extreme of what could possibly happen!  :o

Interesting to think about!

Good point rdunk.

Our universe may not be as solidly put together as we think. Minor changes seem to upset the delicate balance of reality in the most strange ways.

What if the X or Nibiru is a dark none reflective body that traverses a path not from how the orbital plane of this systems planets travel but from a path above to below the plane. It slips through orbits unseen throwing gravity waves off balance to make the system bodies react in a way the unseen wind does to fire, trees or land mass of grass or even water.

Somethings out there and its not showing itself.

Quote from: the seeker on June 09, 2013, 01:54:02 PM
51, I am going to speculate as many others have, that a massive object such as a rogue planet would have to have a very low albedo, since there aren't any reports from the astronomers... unless of course it is coming in at a tangent to the solar plane... :o

Seeker,

I see some great posts below that attempt to address this issue also.


Coming in at a tangent to the solar plane, as well as being hidden in the Kuiper Belt could well account for the lack of reports from astronomers -

(http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/kuiperbelt.jpg)


It's speed also may vary during it's orbit, speeding up as it approaches the sun then slowing down after, making it's pass through the belt much slower.


Velikovsky and Sitchin took a stab at taking the shoebox full of ancient puzzle pieces and putting the picture together.

They may not be correct on all accounts and details, but it would appear that the big picture seems to be a rogue planet passing through for the first time like a cue ball breaking for shot in a game of pool.

It was then captured by the sun's gravity B into a long elliptical orbit and then once again passed through in nearly the exact same orbit causing flooding etc.

If this is indeed the case, the primary point of the op is what can humankind expect next time around.


The expected date for this to occur is all speculation up to this point, and is up for grabs.

Quote...so tell us, what else does grav b research indicate, please. 8)

Well as the video in the op demonstrates, I think we can expect it to be pretty darn close to exactly what it was last time around.
   
:o 


The battles were waged the first time it passed through, and the outcomes determined all the orbits and odd axis tilts we now observe.

I think we can expect to see all these orbits to continue to operate like clockwork for a long time to come, unless further perturbation occurs.

Quote from: ArMaP on June 09, 2013, 02:19:59 PM
I'm not familiar with those books (besides the titles and author's names),

ArMaP, a quick summary from wiki -


"Notwithstanding Velikovsky's dozen or so publications in medical and psychoanalytic journals in the 1920s and 1930s,[21] the work for which he became well known was developed by him during the early 1940s, whilst living in New York. He summarised his core ideas in an affidavit in November 1942,[22] and in two privately published Scripta Academica pamphlets entitled Theses for the Reconstruction of Ancient History (1945) and Cosmos without Gravitation (1946).[23]

Rather than have his ideas dismissed wholesale because of potential flaws in any one area, Velikovsky then chose to publish them as a series of book volumes, aimed at a lay audience, dealing separately with his proposals on ancient history, and with areas more relevant to the physical sciences. Velikovsky was a passionate Zionist,[24][25] and this did steer the focus of his work, although its scope was considerably more far-reaching than this. The entire body of work could be said to stem from an attempt to solve the following problem: that to Velikovsky there appeared to be insufficient correlation in the written or archaeological records between Biblical history and what was known of the history of the area, in particular, Egypt.[26]

Velikovsky searched for common mention of events within literary records, and in the Ipuwer papyrus he believed he had found a contemporary Egyptian account of the Plagues of Egypt. Moreover, he interpreted both accounts as descriptions of a great natural catastrophe. Velikovsky attempted to investigate the physical cause of these events, and extrapolated backwards and forwards in history from this point, cross-comparing written and mythical records from cultures on every inhabited continent, using them to attempt synchronisms of the historical records, yielding what he believed to be further periodic natural catastrophes that can be global in scale.[citation needed]

He arrived at a body of radical inter-disciplinary ideas, which might be summarised as:[citation needed]
Planet Earth has suffered natural catastrophes on a global scale, both before and during humankind's recorded history.
There is evidence for these catastrophes in the geological record (here Velikovsky was advocating Catastrophist ideas as opposed to the prevailing Uniformitarian notions) and archeological record. The extinction of many species had occurred catastrophically, not by gradual Darwinian means.

The catastrophes that occurred within the memory of humankind are recorded in the myths, legends and written history of all ancient cultures and civilisations. Velikovsky pointed to alleged concordances in the accounts of many cultures, and proposed that they referred to the same real events. For instance, the memory of a flood is recorded in the Hebrew Bible, in the Greek legend of Deucalion, and in the Manu legend of India. Velikovsky put forward the psychoanalytic idea of "Cultural Amnesia" as a mechanism whereby these literal records came to be regarded as mere myths and legends.

The causes of these natural catastrophes were close encounters between the Earth and other bodies within the solar system — not least what are now the planets Saturn, Jupiter, Venus, and Mars, these bodies having moved upon different orbits within human memory.

To explain away the fact that these changes to the configuration of the solar system violate several well-understood laws of physics, Velikovsky invented a role for electromagnetic forces in counteracting gravity and orbital mechanics.

Some of Velikovsky's specific postulated catastrophes included:[citation needed]
A tentative suggestion that Earth had once been a satellite of a "proto-Saturn" body, before its current solar orbit.
That the Deluge (Noah's Flood) had been caused by proto-Saturn's entering a nova state, and ejecting much of its mass into space.
A suggestion that the planet Mercury was involved in the Tower of Babel catastrophe.
Jupiter had been the culprit for the catastrophe that saw the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Periodic close contacts with a "cometary Venus" (which had been ejected from Jupiter) had caused the Exodus events (c. 1500 BCE) and Joshua's subsequent "sun standing still" (Joshua 10:12 and 13) incident.
Periodic close contacts with Mars had caused havoc in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE.

As noted above, Velikovsky had conceived the broad sweep of this material by the early 1940s. However, within his lifetime, whilst he continued to research, expand and lecture upon the details of his ideas, he released only selected portions of his work to the public in book form:[citation needed]

Worlds in Collision (1950) discussed the literary and mythical records of the "Venus" and "Mars" catastrophes
Portions of his Revised Chronology were published as Ages in Chaos (1952), Peoples of the Sea (1977) and Rameses II and His Time (1978) (The related monograph Oedipus and Akhenaten, 1960, posited the thesis that pharaoh Akhenaten was the prototype for the Greek mythic figure Oedipus.)
Earth in Upheaval (1955) dealt with geological evidence for global natural catastrophes.

Velikovsky's ideas on his earlier Saturn/Mercury/Jupiter events were never published, and the available archived manuscripts are much less developed.[citation needed]

Of all the strands of his work, Velikovsky published least on his belief that electromagnetism plays a role in orbital mechanics. Although he appears to have retreated from the propositions in his 1946 monograph Cosmos without Gravitation, no such retreat is apparent in Stargazers and Gravediggers.[27] Cosmos without Gravitation, which Velikovsky placed in university libraries and sent to scientists, is a probable catalyst for the hostile response of astronomers and physicists to his later claims about astronomy.[28] However, other Velikovskian enthusiasts such as Ralph Juergens (dec.), Earl Milton (dec.), Wal Thornhill, and Donald E. Scott have claimed that stars are powered not by internal nuclear fusion, but by galactic-scale electrical discharge currents. Such ideas do not find support in the conventional literature and are rejected as pseudoscience by the scientific community."


---


"According to Sitchin's interpretation of Mesopotamian iconography and symbology, outlined in his 1976 book The 12th Planet and its sequels, there is an undiscovered planet beyond Neptune that follows a long, elliptical orbit, reaching the inner solar system roughly every 3,600 years. This planet is called Nibiru (although Jupiter was the planet associated with the god Marduk in Babylonian cosmology).[5] According to Sitchin, Nibiru (whose name was replaced with MARDUK in original legends by the Babylonian ruler of the same name in an attempt to co-opt the creation for himself, leading to some confusion among readers) collided catastrophically with Tiamat (a goddess in the Babylonian creation myth the Enûma Eliš), which he considers to be another planet once located between Mars and Jupiter. This collision supposedly formed the planet Earth, the asteroid belt, and the comets. Sitchin states that when struck by one of planet Nibiru's moons, Tiamat split in two, and then on a second pass Nibiru itself struck the broken fragments and one half of Tiamat became the asteroid belt. The second half, struck again by one of Nibiru's moons, was pushed into a new orbit and became today's planet Earth."

Quote
what kind of "carnage" did it inflict?

Well... if I were an Alien Rancher looking for a nice used solar system with a nice M class planet to breed my livestock, I would want to kick the tires and look for any dents or scratches in the solar system first.

"Now here's one you might like sir, has a little fender damage due to an accident but the M planet is a real beauty!" -

(http://www.sos.siena.edu/~jcummings/teaching/astronomy/lectures/reveal.js-master/ch06.figs/hildaorb.gif)


"Holy smokes boy!, what pulverized that planet that used to be in that outer orbit anyways?"

"Oh that's just a collection of rubble left over from the formation of the system called the asteroid belt."

"Don't BS me boy! How many accidents this solar system been in?!"

"Well just that one, and everything's fine now."

::)


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Pluto_Orbit.gif/220px-Pluto_Orbit.gif)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Plutoorbit1.5sideview.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SttvQRdZtio


"Now most of the orbits look concentric and nice, except that Pluto one, what happened there?"

"That accident, sir."

"Let me see the axial tilt report for the planets."

Sun       - 7.25
Mercury - ~0
Venus   - 177.36

"177!!??...Yikes! Gravitational Perturbation from the accident vehicle I suppose."

"yes sir"

Earth - 23.4
Moon  - 6.68
Mars - 25.19
Jupiter - 3.13
Saturn - 26.73
Uranus - 97.77

"97!!?? Looks like Uranus got in the way too huh?"

"yes sir"

Neptune - 28.32
Pluto - 122.53

"Yes I already saw the Pluto report, now what about retrograde?"

Uranus (19.6 AU), at 14 Earth masses, is the lightest of the outer planets. Uniquely among the planets, it orbits the Sun on its side; its axial tilt is over ninety degrees to the ecliptic.

Because the planet Venus has an axial tilt of 177° its rotation can be considered retrograde, opposite that of most of the other planets.[2][3] The north pole of Venus is "upside down" relative to its orbit. The planet Uranus has a tilt of 97°, hence it rotates "on its side", its north pole being almost in the plane of its orbit.

Triton orbits Neptune in what is known as a retrograde orbit. This means that it orbits Neptune a direction opposite the planet's rotation. It is the only large moon in the Solar System to do this. Astronomers are not quite sure of the reason for this retrograde orbit.

"Well it sure as hell wasn't a giant ping pong paddle smacking it back in the other direction. Are all these orbits stable now?"

"yes sir"

Now what about all these rings around Saturn? Some moons got pulverized as well?"

(http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/saturn-model/satur-lrg.en.png)


"yes sir"


"So how many useful years of ranching can I expect before flooding occurs again?"

"You can get a few thousand generations of livestock bred before the next time sir, trust me."

"I would need a substantial price reduction for such a high turnover ranch son."

"Step into my office sir, let me speak to the manager."


;)

Quote from: rdunk on June 09, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
Well, maybe the books give some facts, but in discussing planets Earth and X, aren't we thinking about two "universal magnets"? Now, just how do magnets react to one another?? Couldn't we first think about our neighbor magnet, the Moon, and that associated "reaction"? Even with the Moon's piddly gravity, doesn't it "drive the tides" on this Earth? Then what might we expect from another nearby (relative) body with 100 times the gravitational force of the Moon? 1000 times? Even 1000 times Earth's gravity?

'Tides' with 100 times the force created by the moons gravity, or even 1000 as you suggest, thus the reported flooding.

Quote
Maybe more to great movements of ocean water? Maybe pole shifts, as magnets do move each other around? Can't we consider assuming, that if a very large planetary object got close enough, it could just attract Earth right too itself, as magnets do?

Indeed pole shifts could be another result during a close encounter as their magnetic fields interact. 


One would also think that the gravitational tug- of- war between the 2 planets would exacerbate Teutonic plate shifting along fault lines resulting in massive frequent earthquakes as well.

Quote
"Catastrophic" just may not be the defining word, for the extreme of what could possibly happen!  :o

Could well be a colossal understatement indeed.

All good points rdunk!

8)

Thanks for the detailed, long and entertaining explanation, A51Watcher.  :)

As for the "inflicted carnage", I was talking about the Earth, because, to me, it looks like a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth wouldn't happen as a flood, because the Earth's rotation would make it look like a huge tide, having a maximum and a minimum each day.

It would probably also change the Earth's orbit and provoke volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, with all those events happening simultaneously, something for which I have never seen any reference.

excellent, 51; I am familiar with the works of Sitchin and Velikovsky, also find it of interest that myths and legends as they are classed detail that our current civilisation is the fifth one, not the first...

the cataclysmic events of such an encounter could explain the tale of the demise of Atlantis, the great deluge as reported from around the world, and of the sun originally rising in the west...

would be nice if we could get the keys to the sport model and go looking for it... 8)


seeker

Quote from: ArMaP on June 10, 2013, 01:15:47 AM
Thanks for the detailed, long and entertaining explanation, A51Watcher.  :)

As for the "inflicted carnage", I was talking about the Earth, because, to me, it looks like a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth wouldn't happen as a flood, because the Earth's rotation would make it look like a huge tide, having a maximum and a minimum each day.

I'm thinking when the minimum is well over the roof of your house you are considering it a flood.

The Tsunami's we saw in the last year would be small by comparison as Rdunk alluded to previously.

Quote
It would probably also change the Earth's orbit and provoke volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, with all those events happening simultaneously, something for which I have never seen any reference.

Funny you should mentions volcanoes.

I happen to live next to 2 active volcanoes you may have heard of - Mt. Hood and Mount St. Helens.

We view them each day as a natural part of our skyline.

(http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2000/fs060-00/images/PDX-Hood.jpg)(http://www.oldoregonphotos.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/4835c60b7dac2cbe49001fc396787352/i/p/ip052z400.jpg)


These days the view looks a little different -

(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4027/4207502521_efb2d42d91_z.jpg)


One day 30 years ago we looked up to see this on the skyline -

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rjY6_FxbFH0/TB-ZsJqgRRI/AAAAAAAACBA/FoKAFfGpq7o/s1600/Mt_St_Helens_Eruption_-_May_1980.jpg)


It spewed boulders and ash for several days in whatever direction the wind was blowing.

Our city was covered and looked like it had just snowed, light grey.


A few months after the eruptions ended and siesmic activity had died down, the BLM was preparing to re- open the area to the public for hiking, etc.

A friend and I ventured up that way a few days ahead of the scheduled re- opening to have a look around.

Grey ash covered everything everywhere and our footsteps were the first to be seen in the ash anywhere.


Besides the mountain being half gone, the devastation surrounding the mountain was pretty amazing -

(http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/358178.jpg)

(http://campsite-studio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/mt_st.helens1_08122010.jpg)

(http://educatoral.com/msh_picts/MSH80_mailboxes_along_cowli.jpg)

(http://nides.bc.ca/Assignments/Rocks/18.gif)

(http://www.sauer-thompson.com/junkforcode/archives/GowanE1.jpg)

(http://www.smate.wwu.edu/teched/geology/GeoHaz/vo-St-Helens/vo-St-Helens-14.JPG)

(http://www.imagenesbing.com/bingimages/18-05-2010.jpg)


Now some 30 years later, I recently returned to the area to see how it was coming along -


(http://www.rhinoclimbs.com/Images/StHelens.07.16.94.9.jpg)

(http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/1-mt-st-helens--30-years-later-ruth-taylor.jpg)

(http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/mt-st-helens--30-years-later-ruth-taylor.jpg)

(http://www.eucalyptusmagazine.com/Blogs/Earth-Talk/August-2012/Will-Mt-St-Helens-become-a-national-park/EarthTalkMtStHelens.JPG)

(http://columbian.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/croppedphotos/2012/12/13/5203536-329191_St._Helens_m_t640.jpg?a6ea3ebd4438a44b86d2e9c39ecf7613005fe067)

(http://evergreenescapes.com//wp-content/uploads/2012/06/mt-st-helens1.jpg)

(http://readthedirt.org/press/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/800px-Cold_lake_with_Mt.StHellens_in_background-580x435.jpg)

(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/660/371/Purple%20Lupine%20on%20Mt.%20St.%20Helens.jpg?ve=1)


This link provides a 360 view from the mountain as it looks today -

http://www.fullscreen360.com/st-helens (http://www.fullscreen360.com/st-helens)


So now today  a mere 30 years later, other than 1/2 the mountain being gone, it is hard to tell anything ever happened here.

So I'm guessing the evidence of volcanic eruptions that happened several thousand years ago would be pretty hard to spot today also.

Quote from: Gigas on June 09, 2013, 06:16:21 PM

Somethings out there and its not showing itself.

I've got a sneaking suspicion you are right Gigas.

Quote from: the seeker on June 10, 2013, 03:56:18 AM
excellent, 51; I am familiar with the works of Sitchin and Velikovsky, also find it of interest that myths and legends as they are classed detail that our current civilisation is the fifth one, not the first...

the cataclysmic events of such an encounter could explain the tale of the demise of Atlantis, the great deluge as reported from around the world, and of the sun originally rising in the west...

would be nice if we could get the keys to the sport model and go looking for it... 8)


seeker

All good points Seeker.

You and Rdunk are saving me a lot of time explaining and bring up related points I was going to get to.


Nice to know if I forget something you guys will chime in.


Onward Peggy!


 

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 11, 2013, 03:42:08 AM
I'm thinking when the minimum is well over the roof of your house you are considering it a flood.

How could that be? ???

If it's another gravitational pull, like the one from the Moon, it would pull everything (specially the water) to the side of the Earth facing it, making what would look like a huge tide, so while the side closest to the planet would be full of water, the opposite side would be left with much less water.

QuoteSo I'm guessing the evidence of volcanic eruptions that happened several thousand years ago would be pretty hard to spot today also.

No, it wouldn't, in the same way it was easy to spot what happened in Pompeii.

I'm sure that if you dig a little you will find the signs of all the eruptions that happened in the last centuries.

PS: thanks for the photos, I love geology. :)

I can't help thinking about how out of alignment all the temples of the world that point to sun events, true north, etc., would be if some large body came around periodically creating havoc.  Seems to Me they would no longer align, unless all were built since the last passage.

Some give a 3600 year period for "Nibiru" (or whatever We call it) - and I KNOW many of the temples were built before the "last time..."

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 11, 2013, 02:23:55 PM
I can't help thinking about how out of alignment all the temples of the world that point to sun events, true north, etc., would be if some large body came around periodically creating havoc.  Seems to Me they would no longer align, unless all were built since the last passage.

Some give a 3600 year period for "Nibiru" (or whatever We call it) - and I KNOW many of the temples were built before the "last time..."

First of all, fantastic thread idea A51, especially when it starts with Velikovsky, who explains these conundrums of celestial events well within a reasonable range for further research.

It seems to me Amy, that the places such as the Trilithon at Baalbek, most of Cusco, and others which are popularly described as antideluvial, would be the ones which were the most "unaligned" in our age...anything else that would indicate these sites are correctly positioned for a pre cataclysmic Earth is mostly wiped clean from the record, buried under thousands of feet of sediment and strata.

But what is puzzling is that the correct alignment of some of the most ancient sites, such as Cuicuilco and Gobekli Tepe show us that the Earth has been in the various positions of these places before.

Wobble,wobble.

Carl Munck did a good job of explaining the alignments of the sites we see to this day....in The Code.....and he also points out how the grids of leylines are much more ancient than in the last three or four world events, such as the multiple passings of Venus, and the near..if not actual...collision of Venus with a so called former planetoid...or the asteroid belt as some may call it.

Someone once wrote long ago..Palles Athene showed Tiamat a thing or two about celestial encounters...and the Gods were defined for a thousand years or more afterwards by these events..

Rdunk, you are correct in describing the magnetic nature of our universe, and the electrical nature of it makes the picture even clearer to those who have eyes to see.

Balls of inductively active magnetic densities orbiting even more magnetic densities......planets orbiting the sun......all one in the same.

When you add friction and resistance then....all He!! breaks loose and electricity takes over on the surface, while magnetism works smoothly and seamlessly to link the various celestial bodies to one another from within!

ArMap, your description of tides instead of tsunamis is probably spot on as well.....as the frequency of a celestial encounter's energy differentials might need to be a bit higher to create such a shaking and tremor filled world of smaller mini-cataclysms. It would come in slow and just keep rising..how ominous! And then recede, to allow the sea bottom to expose itself to the air for the first time in millennia. A true catastrophe for nature, us included!

As for Nibiru, it could be true..or maybe not...with nothing but allegorical and prehistorical notations of it's existence, translated by Sitchin at the disagreement of the mainstream linguists.......I wouldn't count on it returning soon.

Sumerians did have something to see in the sky Im sure, and as Gigas poses, it might not be so much planet, but something very, very different!

Cheers!
Le

If the Planet X were to come by -  in a "cosmic dance"with the Earth, could the Earth become a "moon" of Planet X"? If so, that would result in a disastrous scenario for our planet, doncha think?

Or, could Earth's Moon be snatched away by Planet X? What would be the after effects of Earth not having a moon, if that happened, besides "no moonlight"?  ;)

Quote from: ArMaP on June 11, 2013, 02:05:23 PM
How could that be? ???

If it's another gravitational pull, like the one from the Moon, it would pull everything (specially the water) to the side of the Earth facing it, making what would look like a huge tide, so while the side closest to the planet would be full of water, the opposite side would be left with much less water.
No, it wouldn't, in the same way it was easy to spot what happened in Pompeii.

-If- indeed.

Gravitational tiding might be present, but doesn't that ignore the texts of torrential rain for 40 days and nights?

That might cause a bit of flooding too eh?

My point was that high and low tides such as we see when going agate hunting on the beach or clam hunting as inferred by your tidal references is not what would be seen.

Tides of an unknown amplification factor would look more like flooding to the human eye than just mere high and low tides.

Which is why I used a tsunami analogy to make the point.                         

The written references we have from ancient texts refer to a boat being required to survive the flooding.

Sounds a bit more than high tide to me.                                 

Quote
I'm sure that if you dig a little you will find the signs of all the eruptions that happened in the last centuries.

PS: thanks for the photos, I love geology. :)

Glad you enjoyed the photos even though it appears to have been a waste of time since you reject out of hand the evidence they provide.

Would not a more reasoned approach be to concede that there is volcanic eruption carnage that IS hidden over time as well as that which is not?

And should we also not consider the -local- environ factors -after- the event to see if we should expect degradation to the evidence? (i.e. was there flooding in the area after the event to help wash away the traces or deserts of sand to cover them up?)

Also, adding more volcanic material to an area that already has a volcano and volcanic material spread around, is not going to change the scene much to the human eye.


I would think that weak subduction zones and fault lines would be one of the first places we might expect to see volcanic leakage or eruptions, while dormant volcanoes have a sealed crown that requires pressure to blow it off before eruption occurs.

In any case, all volcanic discussions are speculative since we do not have either ancients texts or dig sites indicating we had such.

The ancient texts only mention flooding, so introduction of earthquakes and volcanic activity into the discussion of ancient texts describing floods only, is a bit of a red herring since it presumes a maximum effect flyby. 

Your speculation that "a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth" would also cause earthquakes and volcanic eruptions -presumes a flyby close enough to provoke such a strong reaction-.



I would expect the various reactions to all gradually increase in magnitude, but not necessarily all at the same time or in the same order.

My guess is atmospheric disturbances would be seen before any other, as our atmosphere is the most lightweight contender we have in resisting external influences.



If that's all we saw and then it gradually decreased we would count ourselves lucky.

Next up on the list I would expect to see water moving, in the seas as well as torrential rain, then after that even closer perhaps earthquakes and volcanic activity.

Not sure where I would put Magnetic reactions on the list.


Did we get of lucky with only reaching the level of atmospheric and water disturbances before it abated?


As I posted earlier -

QuoteIf this is indeed the case, the primary point of the op is what can humankind expect next time around.

   

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 11, 2013, 02:23:55 PM
I can't help thinking about how out of alignment all the temples of the world that point to sun events, true north, etc., would be if some large body came around periodically creating havoc.  Seems to Me they would no longer align, unless all were built since the last passage.

Some give a 3600 year period for "Nibiru" (or whatever We call it) - and I KNOW many of the temples were built before the "last time..."

Amy-

If this scenario is indeed the case, why presume a maximum effect flyby?

If you envision one strong enough to influence Earth's orbit, either pulling it out farther or pushing it in closer, it would not effect the alignment of the temples, only the amount of time it took for them to come around into view, because you have now increased or decreased the circumference of the orbit.

(Zorgon contends the earth used to be in a closer orbit,... who knows?)


Here's a visual example -

Start the following video then pause it.

Then pick a favorite constellation in the sky, and put a piece of tape on the screen where it is.

Then press play and watch how many light years we have to travel away from earth before your sighting marker even begins to slightly move.

So changing the circumference of Earth's orbit within the solar system will have no effect on your sighting markers at Temples.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOi23goo-ss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOi23goo-ss (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOi23goo-ss)

A51Watcher, I do like the volcano pics you posted, to add thought to this discussion. Wow! Your having been nearby when St. Helens erupted with a bang - must have really brought home to you how really puny the human race is, relative to the natural elements of this Earth.

You know, there are volcanos all over this Earth. I am no "volcanoist", but in thinking about your posting - - we really only have specific reference to a very small percentage of the possible volcanos that exist. And the reason for that being..............71% of the earth is covered by salt water. And, except for those which have managed to poke through the surface of the water over the ages, we likely don't know much about the others still deep under the surface of the water.

I do wonder if there is any possibility = when 2 sizable to large planetary bodies happen to come close (relative) together, is there any chance that internal pressures/temperatures of the masses could increase to the point of body- wide full volcanic type eruptions?? A volcano here, and a volcano there is not so good, but if all volcanic sources on the Earth literally erupted at near the same times - - that would present quit a difficult situation I would think!

To end my volcano bit, here is an interesting vidoe about how Hawaii was made - volcanos of course.


                                                 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66UdZWZgfWY

Quote from: Littleenki on June 11, 2013, 06:06:43 PM
First of all, fantastic thread idea A51, especially when it starts with Velikovsky, who explains these conundrums of celestial events well within a reasonable range for further research.

It seems to me Amy, that the places such as the Trilithon at Baalbek, most of Cusco, and others which are popularly described as antideluvial, would be the ones which were the most "unaligned" in our age...anything else that would indicate these sites are correctly positioned for a pre cataclysmic Earth is mostly wiped clean from the record, buried under thousands of feet of sediment and strata.

But what is puzzling is that the correct alignment of some of the most ancient sites, such as Cuicuilco and Gobekli Tepe show us that the Earth has been in the various positions of these places before.

Wobble,wobble.

Carl Munck did a good job of explaining the alignments of the sites we see to this day....in The Code.....and he also points out how the grids of leylines are much more ancient than in the last three or four world events, such as the multiple passings of Venus, and the near..if not actual...collision of Venus with a so called former planetoid...or the asteroid belt as some may call it.

Someone once wrote long ago..Palles Athene showed Tiamat a thing or two about celestial encounters...and the Gods were defined for a thousand years or more afterwards by these events..

Rdunk, you are correct in describing the magnetic nature of our universe, and the electrical nature of it makes the picture even clearer to those who have eyes to see.

Balls of inductively active magnetic densities orbiting even more magnetic densities......planets orbiting the sun......all one in the same.

When you add friction and resistance then....all He!! breaks loose and electricity takes over on the surface, while magnetism works smoothly and seamlessly to link the various celestial bodies to one another from within!

ArMap, your description of tides instead of tsunamis is probably spot on as well.....as the frequency of a celestial encounter's energy differentials might need to be a bit higher to create such a shaking and tremor filled world of smaller mini-cataclysms. It would come in slow and just keep rising..how ominous! And then recede, to allow the sea bottom to expose itself to the air for the first time in millennia. A true catastrophe for nature, us included!

As for Nibiru, it could be true..or maybe not...with nothing but allegorical and prehistorical notations of it's existence, translated by Sitchin at the disagreement of the mainstream linguists.......I wouldn't count on it returning soon.

Sumerians did have something to see in the sky Im sure, and as Gigas poses, it might not be so much planet, but something very, very different!

Cheers!
Le

Great post Le, you brought a lot of food for thought to the table!  8)

In considering the points, I see nothing to disagree with, and thanks for the tips I and others may not have been aware of.

Re: Magnestism and voltage. Would not Earth's magnestism and accompanying voltage as witnessed in the Aurora Borealis, experience an inductive influx from a flyby with a larger field and voltage if the intruder also has magnetic poles? (As our planets in the solar system do, as measured by our probes?)

What resulting disturbances might we see from THAT? (other than blown fuses!  ;D ) 

Might not this higher magnetic/voltage influx trigger lightning/thunder torrential rains?


As to wobble or pitch - consider what happens when you try to wiggle a gyroscope... it don't like it!  ;D

Put one on the end of a string and try it, it will continue to fight back and wobble wobble.

P.S.

I don't buy the 3,600 year time cycle guess, I think that figure needs to start at around 12 - 14,000 years, based on current misconceptions about the age of The Sphinx.

Also, the Chinese have been keeping records for 6,000 years. You would think some mention of the event would have made the headlines in there somewhere?


And when considering floods, let's not forget undo's research indicating not one huge world- wide flood but but smaller separate ones instead.

Again, not a maximum effect encounter no?

Quote from: rdunk on June 12, 2013, 04:57:55 AM
A51Watcher, I do like the volcano pics you posted, to add thought to this discussion. Wow! Your having been nearby when St. Helens erupted with a bang - must have really brought home to you how really puny the human race is, relative to the natural elements of this Earth.

You know, there are volcanos all over this Earth. I am no "volcanoist", but in thinking about your posting - - we really only have specific reference to a very small percentage of the possible volcanos that exist. And the reason for that being..............71% of the earth is covered by salt water. And, except for those which have managed to poke through the surface of the water over the ages, we likely don't know much about the others still deep under the surface of the water.

I do wonder if there is any possibility = when 2 sizable to large planetary bodies happen to come close (relative) together, is there any chance that internal pressures/temperatures of the masses could increase to the point of body- wide full volcanic type eruptions?? A volcano here, and a volcano there is not so good, but if all volcanic sources on the Earth literally erupted at near the same times - - that would present quit a difficult situation I would think!

To end my volcano bit, here is an interesting vidoe about how Hawaii was made - volcanos of course.


                                                 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66UdZWZgfWY

Indeed it did Rdunk.

It also made me question the wisdom of building a city in between 2 active volcanoes!! LOL  ;D

Nice video. I used to live in Hawaii for a while and understand the formation. A bit like a mountain of toothpaste coming out of a tube! lol

Book em Dan-O!  8)

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 12, 2013, 04:38:03 AM
Amy-

If this scenario is indeed the case, why presume a maximum effect flyby?

If you envision one strong enough to influence Earth's orbit, either pulling it out farther or pushing it in closer, it would not effect the alignment of the temples, only the amount of time it took for them to come around into view, because you have now increased or decreased the circumference of the orbit.

I cannot imagine such great disturbance in the planet with zero disruption to tilt...  Just sayin'.

If the Earth is moving through space on our orbit at 5,000 mph, what speed do you think this object would be moving at while in the inner system.

I would think that even if it did pass a thousand times thru the inner solar system, what are the chances that we would be any where near it to change anything. A bullet missing a bullet has no time to react. This would need some time IMHO to do any real damage.

If the Earth to the Moon was Gravity Radius 1 and X had a Grav Rad 5 If we were at 6 in distance what would happen. So I would think one must start around distance 6 or less to have real action. In space there is a lot of room. These numbers are insignificant. the odds of getting that close should be very rare. What do you think?

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 12, 2013, 03:58:25 AM
My point was that high and low tides such as we see when going agate hunting on the beach or clam hunting as inferred by your tidal references is not what would be seen.

Why?

QuoteTides of an unknown amplification factor would look more like flooding to the human eye than just mere high and low tides.

What about the opposite side of the planet? Where are the legends/traditions of the water disappearing?

QuoteWhich is why I used a tsunami analogy to make the point.

I think that is a bad analogy.

QuoteThe written references we have from ancient texts refer to a boat being required to survive the flooding.

Sounds a bit more than high tide to me.

How high the tide is depends on several things, one of them is the force pulling the water, that's why the tides are higher in the new Moon than on the full Moon. A planet close enough to Earth to provoke cataclysms would create a huge tide.

QuoteGlad you enjoyed the photos even though it appears to have been a waste of time since you reject out of hand the evidence they provide.

That's because that's not the same situation.

QuoteWould not a more reasoned approach be to concede that there is volcanic eruption carnage that IS hidden over time as well as that which is not?

Yes, as that's what happens, but aren't we talking about a supposedly planet-wide event? If we are, the evidences should exist in the whole planet, some hidden, some not.
Where's the evidence that large, planet-wide volcanic cataclysms happened some 3600 (or 5000, or 10000) years ago?

QuoteAlso, adding more volcanic material to an area that already has a volcano and volcanic material spread around, is not going to change the scene much to the human eye.

Yes, but geologists don't limit themselves to the human eye. :)

QuoteI would think that weak subduction zones and fault lines would be one of the first places we might expect to see volcanic leakage or eruptions, while dormant volcanoes have a sealed crown that requires pressure to blow it off before eruption occurs.

Yes, but wasn't this a supposed global event?

Or was it global for some things and local for some others? ???

QuoteIn any case, all volcanic discussions are speculative since we do not have either ancients texts or dig sites indicating we had such.

And should we have them, if there was a planet passing close to Earth? Or wasn't it close enough, but close enough to make rain (why)?

QuoteYour speculation that "a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth" would also cause earthquakes and volcanic eruptions -presumes a flyby close enough to provoke such a strong reaction-.

Yes, that was my understanding of the words used, that the planet passed very close to Earth, close enough to affect it. As far as I know, the thing that can affect most a planet at a distance is gravity.

QuoteMy guess is atmospheric disturbances would be seen before any other, as our atmosphere is the most lightweight contender we have in resisting external influences.

Is the atmosphere affected by the Moon's gravity? If it is we should have noticed it by now, if it's not, why should it be affected by another planet's gravity? ???

QuoteNext up on the list I would expect to see water moving, in the seas as well as torrential rain, then after that even closer perhaps earthquakes and volcanic activity.

Why the rain? ???

QuoteNot sure where I would put Magnetic reactions on the list.

I don't have any idea. :)

Quote from: A51Watcher on June 12, 2013, 04:38:03 AM
If you envision one strong enough to influence Earth's orbit, either pulling it out farther or pushing it in closer, it would not effect the alignment of the temples, only the amount of time it took for them to come around into view, because you have now increased or decreased the circumference of the orbit.

A possible influence, strong enough to make a change in orbit, would make a change only in eccentricity if the planet creating the influence was on the same plane as the Earth's orbit, if it wasn't then it would make a change (even if small) in the plane of the Earth's orbit.

Quote from: deuem on June 12, 2013, 09:51:14 AM
I would think that even if it did pass a thousand times thru the inner solar system, what are the chances that we would be any where near it to change anything. A bullet missing a bullet has no time to react. This would need some time IMHO to do any real damage.

Nice thinking, have some virtual gold. :)

QuoteIf the Earth to the Moon was Gravity Radius 1 and X had a Grav Rad 5 If we were at 6 in distance what would happen. So I would think one must start around distance 6 or less to have real action.

It also depends on the mass of the other planet, but yes, distance is what affects most gravity.

QuoteIn space there is a lot of room. These numbers are insignificant. the odds of getting that close should be very rare. What do you think?

I think that the whole story of that extra planet is just that, a story. :)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XBxmABpP9Dc/T4726eUo9yI/AAAAAAAAGyQ/tLcRg7lV9uo/s1600/Speak+no+evil.+hear+No+evil.+Look+no+evil.jpg)

(http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/images/Nibiru-orbit.jpg)

(http://montessorimuddle.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/jupmag5na.jpg)

(http://theideagirlsays.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/jupiters-and-saturns-magnetospheres-plasma-sheet-magnetic-field-lines-satellites-inject-ions-into-magnetosphere.jpg?w=600)

(http://www.ucl.ac.uk/mssl/planetary-science/nuggets/mssl-planetary-science-nuggets/csa-mapping-saturn-magnetosphere/csa-mapping-plasmaprod.jpg)

(http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/images/content/386400main_Jupiter_magnetosphere_full.jpg)

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17sxdd78xfikujpg/k-bigpic.jpg)


Oh dear, it appears all our planets have large invisible skirts we don't wan't to be rubbing shoulders with on the others.



"Velikovsky invented a role for electromagnetic forces in counteracting gravity and orbital mechanics."

Oh, no foolin huh?  He would have enjoyed seeing this probe data then.  8)

Quote from: deuem on June 12, 2013, 09:51:14 AM
If the Earth is moving through space on our orbit at 5,000 mph, what speed do you think this object would be moving at while in the inner system.

I would think that even if it did pass a thousand times thru the inner solar system, what are the chances that we would be any where near it to change anything. A bullet missing a bullet has no time to react. This would need some time IMHO to do any real damage.

My reply to that statement is.............skeptical thought, or otherwise, has no-thing do with what "could be" absolute, if a Planet X exists. Anything happening is all about the circumstance of the physics, and the odds of occurrence.

It is not much different from what we know of other "real" potential disastrous happenings, except we don't really know whether Planet X actually exists. For instance, a MAXIMUM (whatever that might be) solar mass ejection is always a possibility, but, it could always be launched in any direction from the Sun, and away from Earth. However, in the physics of such occurrences, there are a few tiny degrees that at any given time, the Earth is looking directly down the Sun's mass ejection rifle barrel. If the Sun ever fires that MAXIMUM shot, while pointed directly at the Earth, then this Earth will likely be considerably deconstructed.

So, what are the odds on that maximum occurring such like??

And also for a major asteroid! For a major comet! And for all of the other spacial objects and spacial situations we know next to nothing about, in the big scheme of things. We are barely coming out of the "dark ages" in this respect, and in reality are but a tiny pimple upon a tiny spec of dust relative to the Cosmos.

IF......Planet X is out there, it may have a petraflop number of different scenarios of a relationship with Earth, but..............................................................................and then BANG!  Same for the Sun, and that will put the lights out baby!  ;)

Quote from: deuem on June 12, 2013, 09:51:14 AM
If the Earth is moving through space on our orbit at 5,000 mph, what speed do you think this object would be moving at while in the inner system.

I would think that even if it did pass a thousand times thru the inner solar system, what are the chances that we would be any where near it to change anything. A bullet missing a bullet has no time to react. This would need some time IMHO to do any real damage.

If the Earth to the Moon was Gravity Radius 1 and X had a Grav Rad 5 If we were at 6 in distance what would happen. So I would think one must start around distance 6 or less to have real action. In space there is a lot of room. These numbers are insignificant. the odds of getting that close should be very rare. What do you think?

I think with moving objects speed is relative, depending on direction.

Ever pass someone so fast it looked like they were standing still?

Or pass someone doing 65 while you are doing 70?

Actual speeds were fast but relative speeds were slow.


I see 2 crossing points where if traveling in the same direction the relative speed would be slower in between these 2 points -


(http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/images/Nibiru-orbit.jpg)


... and a minimum to medium effect encounter possible depending on actual positions during flyby.

Quote from: rdunk on June 12, 2013, 04:57:55 AM
A51Watcher, I do like the volcano pics you posted, to add thought to this discussion. Wow! Your having been nearby when St. Helens erupted with a bang - must have really brought home to you how really puny the human race is, relative to the natural elements of this Earth.

You know, there are volcanos all over this Earth. I am no "volcanoist", but in thinking about your posting - - we really only have specific reference to a very small percentage of the possible volcanos that exist. And the reason for that being..............71% of the earth is covered by salt water. And, except for those which have managed to poke through the surface of the water over the ages, we likely don't know much about the others still deep under the surface of the water.

I do wonder if there is any possibility = when 2 sizable to large planetary bodies happen to come close (relative) together, is there any chance that internal pressures/temperatures of the masses could increase to the point of body- wide full volcanic type eruptions?? A volcano here, and a volcano there is not so good, but if all volcanic sources on the Earth literally erupted at near the same times - - that would present quit a difficult situation I would think!

To end my volcano bit, here is an interesting vidoe about how Hawaii was made - volcanos of course.


                                                 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66UdZWZgfWY

Rdunk, I am reminded of when living in Hawaii of how important it is to have a radio when going surfing to be able to listen to the radio for weather conditions.

On days when they announce storm conditions at sea, that means much larger waves than normal are going to be had at all locations, and surfers head for the shores like crazy to catch a big one.

One day we went to the a location at the North Shore where waves were normally 12 to 18 feet and on this day they were 22-30 feet.

Funny how a relatively small change in atmospherics can result in a dam near doubling of the waves.

As Gigas alluded to, even small changes in our delicately balanced ecosphere can result in far reaching effects.   

QuoteFunny how a relatively small change in atmospherics can result in a dam near doubling of the waves.

Exactly, that's why they were playing the HAARP last year & screwed up the weather ;)

I thought we covered this about 2 years ago??
ATS anyone?

8)

THREAD BUMP!!

If anything at all, we can definitely say that there is more influencing Earth's orbit and its neighbor's on a constant basis of interaction creating cause and effect.

I have thought for some time now of how the real deal would go down if it were to go down, and the perception of such has not changed with in my thoughts. It is the stretching, altering, expanding and interacting of all these particular instances that will reveal never before for seen scenario's. It is 'Inevitable' with in vastness of lack of knowledge and Universal Properties both at work, and short time to understand.

For the most part, most would see what we discuss here as a form of Hogwash and dis-regard anything that would seem other worldly or improbable by an individuals interpretation of such a demise.

I have heard rumor's of the Planet X and it's possible impact on our Planet and our Solar system, we know things are out there that can bring great turmoil with  simple impact and can openly accept these scenario's or inevitably going to happen again, it is always going to be "A matter of Time."

I think that the things that are happening or have taken place with in our local Heliosphere and Magnetosphere is giving us the red flags, I personally feel the Earth is going through changes that are yet to be seen, but warranted if one is diligent to understand that things are not the same as they were in yester-year on our planet, everything is either expanding or contracting, tearing or admitting and there is really nothing we can do about it except be aware and vigilant in our watch.

Just as Matrix is experiencing "The Cosmic Shift" (As I like to call it) in his perception and apparently in many others here on our planet, there is always going to be the faint of heart to openly accept this being the fact of the matter.

1WW

Interesting reading!

There's plenty of evidence that something big happens every 3600 years, only opinions are greatly divided as to the cause.

Also the exact date of the last 'shift' is a little vague, but it must be close to 3599 years  :o

Something to think about ::)
Great work, peeps ;)

I find it interesting we can clearly see huge past imact craters galore on The Moon and on Mars, yet we see no such clear record of that on Earth.

Was the Earth somehow spared these same impacts?


No? I thought it was such a simple matter to see and know all past devastation that has been inflicted on Earth?  ::)

Quote from: A51Watcher on August 08, 2013, 04:07:36 AM
Was the Earth somehow spared these same impacts?

The same, obviously not.  :P

And no, the Earth was not spared from impacts, but having most of its surface covered with water helps reducing the impact and hiding the results. Erosion did most of the rest.

1WW;

QuoteIt is the stretching, altering, expanding and interacting of all these particular instances that will reveal never before for seen scenario's. It is 'Inevitable' with in vastness of lack of knowledge and Universal Properties both at work, and short time to understand.

Yes, even the so-called 'universal constants' are seemingly not so.

Gravity is definitely one of the culprits here, as well as rotation or 'angular momentum' to be more precise.
These little understood phenomena are the very cornerstones of future research.
That, and time of course ;)

I have been concentrating particularly on gravity these last few years, and some of the things i learned here at PRC has changed my outlook considerably.

If, for instance, a gravity wave is actually more of a shape-changing donut or smoke ring, it actually expands & contracts the spacetime (or as i call it, masstime) as it goes along.
There would appear also to be 2 forms of this wave referred to as 'A' and 'B' types.

Further down the rabbit hole we go...

If for instance, a particularly large grav-wave* were to pass through your house, the entire house would expand & then contract by a few nanometers.Not enough to actually observe, but in theory it happens.

But if you are sitting there with a silver rod of exactly 100mm and a very accurate digital caliper, you will still measure nothing, since the rod, caliper, you, the house, everything has expanded & contracted by the same amount, so your instruments will measure nothing & you yourself won't feel a thing.

But someone in your garden with a laser measuring device may well see the changes & accurately measure them, if he is fast enough**.

QuoteI have heard rumor's of the Planet X and it's possible impact on our Planet and our Solar system,

What? Nibiru?

Never heard of it :P

I actually thought they launched the Herschel IR telescope in order to look for the red dwarf star it was supposed to be, or having it in tow, i cant remember which.
The point is, i never heard more from that telescope, it was publicly said to have been made for IR CMB measurements, but thats all high in the microwave area, so what were they looking for?

Their next explanation (a good one as it happens) is that with IR they could look right through dust clouds etc, something you can't do in the visible spectrum........

It would be great if one of you folks could go & research the Herschel mission for us... ::)
It cost us a million a day for 3 years so i say we have a right to know!


* Try http://www.gravwave.com/ (http://www.gravwave.com/) for an explanation of how this works, sorry no time to post all of it ::)

**Eugevny (Eugene) Podkletnov maintains that the initial speed of his gravity pulses were many times faster than light.
Also, in classical astronomy, the effects of gravity over astronomical distabces is assumed as 'instantaneous' yet how can that be if it only travels as fast as light??

To this date, no-one has answered that one to my satisfaction :P

Armap is partially right, but consider also that our thick atmosphere saved us a lot, since objects just burned up on the way down, like they still do :P

Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on August 08, 2013, 10:16:41 PM

Also, in classical astronomy, the effects of gravity over astronomical distances is assumed as 'instantaneous' yet how can that be if it only travels as fast as light??

To this date, no-one has answered that one to my satisfaction :P

The starlight is also 'instantaneous'! So if light from distant stars is 'longitudinal' and travels the vast distance 'instantaneously', is only visible because it interacts with matter, thereby eventually 'phase-shifting' into EM, what is not to say that 'gravity' is similar?

QuoteArmap is partially right, but consider also that our thick atmosphere saved us a lot, since objects just burned up on the way down, like they still do :P

The recent Russian meteorite shows you why! The object was attacked by the atmosphere! An 'electrical' process made it glow brighter than the sun (A phenomena that couldn't be from friction alone) and then 'lightning' and 'static discharge' broke the object up, until it 'exploded'.
The Earth has a natural protection mechanism!

A51 Wrote:

QuoteWas the Earth somehow spared these same impacts?

Well A51, there is a 'Known' time of our young planet that was called "The Late Heavy Bombardment" though this happened some 3.6 to 4 billion years ago, it is as mostly like ArMap has stated, oceans covered up the scars and time with erosion have cleaned the planets face, not to mention uplifting tectonic plates that also altered the earth very significantly. ;)

QuoteA giant ancient barrage of asteroids (http://www.space.com/51-asteroids-formation-discovery-and-exploration.html) striking Earth may have lasted much longer than previously thought, with some collisions perhaps even rivaling those that created the largest craters on the moon, researchers say.

Scientists think untold numbers of asteroids and comets pummeled Earth, the moon and the inner planets during an era known as the Late Heavy Bombardment about 4.1 billion to 3.8 billion years ago. Investigators continue to debate the precise nature of this epoch in terms of what happened and how long it lasted.

To learn more about the Late Heavy Bombardment (http://www.space.com/15172-early-asteroids-bombardment-impacts.html), scientists would like to analyze the most obvious evidence cosmic impacts leave behind, their craters. However, while such craters are preserved well in the vacuum of the moon environment, they disappear quickly on Earth due to erosion and tectonic activity.

Asteroids Battered Young Earth Longer Than Thought (http://www.space.com/15424-asteroids-battered-earth-collisions.html)

ETA: This is also about the time we start seeing our current atmosphere form on Earth, mainly from Ice comet impacts and celestial H2O as it impacted, and the Earth was at a high magma temp, it turned to steam and there by started the atmosphere on it's continuing path. Was quite an important event for the evolution of our planet.

Just thought this would be worth sharing here.

1WW

To be more precise:

(http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/153/m11m.png) (http://imageshack.com/i/49m11mp/)

The distant star (or our own Sun) emits light as a Longitudinal Magneto-
Dielectric wave that travels through he intervening space without illuminating that space.
It is only until it encounters matter that it becomes visible.
In the case of a distant star, that would be various densities of interstellar matter. If we catalouge those densities we would have the 5 states of matter: Aetheric, Plasma, Gaseous, Liquid, and Solid.
The original light from the star has it's vectors of Dielectric and Magnetic Phase in conjunction (As on the right of the diagram). The passage through various densities of matter would alter those vectors, to the corresponding phase angle, characteristic of that density of matter.
Hence, the light we see from a distant star gets here instantaneously, after having it's phase angle altered by the intervening matter (In the line of sight path to the star from us the observer) and it is the phase sum and/or phase cancellations of those traverses that constitute the perceived 'colour' that we view from the star.
Sorry to pop anybody's 'red-shift' bubble :)

The light from our local star has less distance to travel, hence it appears Yellow against the blackness of space.
When we look through the atmosphere (at the blackness of space) we see the complement, blue.
Light doesn't become 'visible' until it interacts with matter!

What has this to do with gravity?
Well, if there is a link between Electricity, Light and Gravity (Which many researchers have shown) then the rules that apply to Light, also apply to both Electricity and Gravity.
If we took the Dielectric Constant of the matter between us and the star we are observing, we might just find that a one-to-one mapping existed between the perceived light and the averaged k constant of the intervening matter.
Hence there is a phase shifting, from pure Dielectric, to the Electromagnetic, that exists in conjunction with matter.

So, could you say that Gravity did the same between two bodies?

Light is essentially invisible in intervening space, and gravity diminishes from a body in space.
Light exhibits a spectrum coincident with the mix (Or phase angle) between Light and Dark.
Electricity exhibits a spectrum coincident with the mix (Or phase angle)  between Dielectricity and Magnetism.

Gravity exhibits a spectrum coincident with the mix (Or phase angle) between ? and ?.
Maybe that needs to be left for another post :)

Here is one more of the Planet X NIBIRU info videos. This was posted on YT on August 23, 2013. Just a lot of "information" about the very-soon potential "possibilities", if a thing called NIBIRU actually passes this way!

Just a little more FYI, as this has been covered pretty well in this and other other threads here.

                                             
                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV06p7rVhiE