Pegasus Research Consortium

Calling all Christians of the RC Faith - When well this Madness Stop?

We have all seen the recent Decline and Fall of Rome V2.0 over money issues and sex scandals...

So what is the answer from the Church?

Why simple... just make it ILLEGAL to report sex crimes... problem solved. Snitch on a Priest, go directly to jail for two years...

Pope Criminalizes the Reporting of Sex Crimes
Written by Justin Dodd July 17th 2013

(http://www.newslo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Francisco-645x325.png)
(Photo Credit: Wikimedia Commons)

QuoteVATICAN CITY — Few eyebrows were raised last week when Pope Francis brought the Vatican's legal system up to date by criminalizing leaks of official information and formalizing laws against sex crimes. But now that the laws have been made public, a closer look revealed that the pope has made it illegal to report sex crimes against children.

According to the new laws, revealing or receiving confidential Vatican information is now punishable by up to two years in prison, while newly defined sex crimes against children carry a sentence of up to twelve years. Because all sex crimes are kept confidential, there is no longer a legal way for Vatican officials to report sex crimes.

"We didn't mean for this to happen, obviously," lamented Vatican foreign minister Monsignor Dominique Mamberti. "It's quite the papal pickle that His Holiness has placed upon our heads. Sex crimes are more illegal than ever, but technically it's illegal to report them." Mamberti said that the simultaneous passing of each law is merely a coincidence and insisted that the Church is not trying to protect itself against further embarrassment, but critics outside the Vatican are skeptical.

"They know exactly what they're doing," claims Fabrizio Perona of Italy's La Repubblica newspaper. "They just thought nobody would notice. The Church wants to impress the world by getting tough on sex crimes, but they criminalized leaks, which is the only way anybody would ever discover their crimes. It's genius, if you stop and think about it."

Mamberti says plans are already being made to eliminate the loophole, but change often comes slowly to antiquated Vatican law, which is based on the 1889 Italian code. "We're not going to let a dangerous law like this stand, but people need to understand that this is the Vatican, and there is a process here. Voting, incense, prayer. We ask the minors at risk to please be patient with us."
Fortunately, only clergy and lay people who live and work in Vatican City are subject to the new legislation, which differs from the canon law governing the universal Catholic Church.

As the Holy See moves to clarify the law, Mamberti has warned would-be offenders within Vatican walls that they "are still subject to the most watchful eye of all: the eye of God. His judgment is greater than—oh, who am I kidding? For now, there is nothing we can do."

http://www.newslo.com/pope-criminalizes-the-reporting-of-sex-crimes/

Backed up by Time Magazine

Pope Criminalizes Leaks, Sex Abuse in First Laws
By AP / Nicole Winfield July 11, 2013

Quote(VATICAN CITY) — Pope Francis overhauled the laws that govern the Vatican City State on Thursday, criminalizing leaks of Vatican information and specifically listing sexual violence, prostitution and possession of child pornography as crimes against children that can be punished by up to 12 years in prison.

The legislation covers clergy and lay people who live and work in Vatican City and is different from the canon law which covers the universal Catholic Church.

It was issued at a critical time, as the Vatican gears up for a grilling by a U.N. committee on its efforts to protect children under a key U.N. convention and prevent priests from sexually abusing them. The Vatican signed and ratified the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1990 yet only now — 23 years later — has it updated its legislation to reflect some of the treaty's core provisions.

The bulk of the Vatican's penal code is based on the 1889 Italian code, and in many ways is outdated. Much of the hodge-podge of laws passed Thursday — which range from listing crimes against humanity to the illicit appropriation of nuclear material — bring the Vatican up to date with the many U.N. conventions it has signed over the years.

http://world.time.com/2013/07/11/pope-criminalizes-leaks-sex-abuse-in-first-laws/

POPE CRACKS DOWN ON SEX ABUSE
JULY 11, 2013 BY BILL   

(http://www.catholicleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/pope-installation-new-300x150.jpg)

QuoteBill Donohue comments on Pope Francis' crackdown on sex abuse:
As Pope Francis proved today, he has no stomach for child exploitation, or for any type of sexual abuse. His decision to revise the norms affecting these crimes, complete with more stringent penalties, is a welcome tonic. However, he does not need to be congratulated for this initiative—he needs to be supported by those in a position to do so.

Child sexual abuse is a serious worldwide problem. It affects every secular and religious organization where there is sustained interaction between adults and children. In the West, it is aided and abetted by a sick culture bent on eroticizing youth. From advertisements in magazines and on billboards, to TV shows during the day and in the evening—to say nothing of music videos and the movie industry—we are inundated with hyper-sexualized portrayals and images, the result of which is a morally debased milieu.

When it comes to racial tensions, many are quick to point to the "root causes" of poverty and injustice. But these same persons show little or no interest in addressing the "root causes" of child sexual exploitation. As we recently saw in the debate over gun control, those who were screaming the loudest for stricter gun laws were typically silent on the role Hollywood plays in fostering violence in our culture. The same is true about sexual exploitation—there is a reluctance to get Hollywood to do something about its role in furthering this problem.

The Catholic Church had a problem with priestly sexual abuse in the 1960s and 1970s, but today it has the cleanest record of any institution. Currently, child sexual abuse is a problem in places like Hollywood, Indian reservations, the Orthodox Jewish communities, the public schools, and, of course, in the home (boyfriends and stepfathers are the worst offenders). Wherever it exists, it must be stomped out. Thank God Pope Francis is leading the way.

http://www.catholicleague.org/pope-cracks-down-on-sex-abuse/

Okay so..

Pope says: 12 years for sex crimes against kids...

Pope says: It's illegal to report a sex crime

My question then

If its illegal to report it, if its illegal to leak the information, then how in HELL can you convict anyone to put them away for 12 years?

Am I missing something?

Pope Francis lays down the law on child sex abuse on Vatican grounds
From Hada Messia, CNN
July 11, 2013

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130711132103-pope-francis-lampedusa-story-top.jpg)
Pope Francis on a recent trip to Lampedusa island in Italy on July 8, 2013

QuoteRome (CNN) -- Pope Francis has laid down a law making it a crime to abuse children sexually or physically on Vatican grounds, the Holy See announced Thursday.
The acts were already crimes under church law, but are now specifically outlawed within the Vatican city-state, which is home to hundreds of people.

The legislation also covers child prostitution and the creation or possession of child pornography.
But it has a "broader scope," according to Radio Vatican.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/11/world/europe/vatican-child-abuse


Pope Francis has laid down a law making it a crime to abuse children sexually or physically on Vatican grounds

Says NOTHING about the rest of the world... only on Vatican Grounds... WTF is the mater with these guys?

Hmmm so hey are they admitting something ?

Catholic Church Owns Billion-Dollar German Media Firm Selling Porn
By Christine Gaylican | August 17

QuoteThe Catholic Church is again in another controversy. This time the ownership of a billion-dollar German media company that has been reported selling some pornographic materials, which is against its philosophy and teachings.

A report from online news provider Worldcrunch.com has revealed that the German company Weltbild, the largest media firm selling books, DVDs, music and more also happens to sell pornographic materials and other erotica.

The report said that although it has been 10 years that a local group had written the Catholic Church authorities about this, no action has been taken to address the situation.

"In 2008, the group sent a 70-page document to all the bishops whose dioceses have shared ownership of Weltbild for 30 years, detailing evidence of the sale of questionable material," Worldcrunch.com said.

It further explained that Wetbild, based in Augsburg, Germany, these days has a workforce of 6,400 and turns over some 1.7 billion euros in revenues. It ranks second to Amazon.com when it comes to its online sales of books and other media-related materials.

Although it has been against the Catholic Church teachings, some 2,500 erotic books are listed on the online catalogue of Weltbild, these include the Blue Panther Books with titles: "Schlampen-Internat" (Sluts' Boarding School). "Vögelbar" (F-kable), and "Anwaltshure" (Lawyer's Whore).

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/374624/20120817/catholic-church-porn-pornography-books-weltbild.htm#.UehWt9LUnjI

Revealed: publisher owned by the Catholic Church sells pornography

Germany's bishops promise to stop the company's distribution of erotic novels

QuoteGermany's biggest Catholic-owned publishing house has been rocked by disclosures that it has been selling thousands of pornographic novels with titles such as Sluts Boarding School and Lawyer's Whore with the full assent of the country's leading bishops.

The revelations made in the publishing-industry newsletter Buchreport concern Weltbild, a company with an annual €1.7bn (£1.5bn) turnover and 6,400 employees. It is Germany's largest bookseller after Amazon and wholly owned by the Catholic Church.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/revealed-publisher-owned-by-the-catholic-church-sells-pornography-6257572.html

I was chatting to an Alien Couple the other day who resided from a free planet and they were shocked that Earth had this establishment to begin with,  Let alone it took a couple of thousand year's to come up with this law. 

What could I say to them other than "Yeah it look's nice in the brochure, but in reality it's a shit planet"  ???

Charity begins at Home...

"God helps those who help themselves..."

The worship of Gold... didn't a guy by the name of Moses have something to say about that once upon a time?

(http://kenraggio.com/Pope-Gold-Pearls.jpg)
Mwhahahaha MINE  all MINE!!!!!

Pope's Personal Income: $200 Million Annually
Posted on May 8, 2011

QuotePope Benedict XVI receives roughly $200 million annually for his personal use, money which is not counted as income to the government of the worldwide Catholic Church (the Holy See) nor the government of the Vatican City State, an independent country in which St. Peter's Basilica and the Vatican offices, residences, library and museums are located. It is his alone.

The pope's income comes from three sources.

American Catholics are asked to contribute to the pope's "works of charity"  by a special collection taken during Mass once a year. This money is sent directly to Benedict as part of the worldwide donation called Peter's Pence. The practice began in 1871 when the then-pontiff lost his last sovereign territory (before the creation of the Vatican City State in 1929), the Papal States, along with the income from this wide swath of land across the center of the Italian peninsula.
In 2006, the Peter's Pence total was $101.9 million, 2007 $79.8 million, 2008 $75.8 million and 2009 $82.5 million. The last year (2006) in which the sum was broken down by country and made public, people in the U.S. were the largest donors providing 28 percent of the total.  (The Vatican has not yet released financial information for 2010.)

All the profits from the IOR, the Institute of the Works of Religion or Vatican Bank, are also given to the pope as his private income. According to Vatican expert, Sandro Magister, these profits amount to 70 to 80 million euro annually ($103.8 – $118.6 million) for the pope's "works of charity."
Additional gifts are rarely disclosed but here a few I could find:

Money was raised at the first National Catholic Prayer Breakfast held in Washington D.C. in 2004. An expected $100,000 was donated to Pope John Paul II and the Religious Sisters of Life.
An organization of wealthy American Catholics called The Papal Foundation (see below), presents an unspecified annual gift from their group of million-dollar donors to the pope "to support and help him with his requested programs and missions throughout the world."

When Pope Benedict XVI visited the U.S. in April 2010, the American bishops gave him a check for $870,000 "to support his charitable works" without explanation of where the money came from.
"The expression in Rome is opera de carita: 'We're making an offering for your works of charity.' In fact, you don't know where the money is going," stated a priest who "steered" cash payoffs from the Legionaries of Christ to Monsignor Stanislaw Dziwisz, Pope John Paul II's secretary and the man closest to the pontiff. In his interview with author, Jason Berry, the priest continued, "It's an elegant way of giving a bribe."

Not all "offerings for your works of charity" given to Catholic Church officials are bribes, but it is true that you won't know for sure where the money is going since all Church financial disclosure is voluntary and unverifiable.

There isn't much information about what Benedict does with his fortune. For an organization with an official and semi-official global media empire second to none and which never hesitates to toot its own horn, reports from Catholic news sources of papal charity are few and far between.
Sometime in 2010, the pope gave $50,000 of his own money to Caritas Haiti, a member organization of Caritas Internationalis (see below) and $250,000 for rebuilding the school of Saint François de Sales in Port-au-Prince.

The Almoner's Office, "tucked into a courtyard on the north end of Vatican City," distributes more than $2 million each year as charity to pay such things as medical or utility bills and rent to applicants screened and approved by their local pastor. The archbishop in charge advised an American reporter that "Pope Benedict told him to 'never let our charity be lacking' and to come to him personally if he needed additional funds."

It was reported that this past Christmas, Benedict hosted a Christmas dinner in Rome for 250 homeless persons. We'll assume that "hosted" meant he picked up the tab in addition to showing up.

None of the official Vatican charities, all managed by the dicastery (department) known as The Pontifical Council COR UNUM for Human and Christian Development, state they receive money from the pope, although the dicastery's function is "To assist the pope and be his instrument for carrying out special initiatives in the field of humanitarian actions."

The Vatican website lists four separate funds under the auspices of COR UNUM which donated $9.35 million in 2009  for such things as disaster relief, schools in Africa and building Catholic facilities. All are financed by donations from the "faithful" and the Italian Bishops Conference.
Probably the best-known Catholic charity is Caritas Internationalis, a highly-regarded
"confederation of 162 Catholic relief, development and social service organizations working to build a better world, especially for the poor and oppressed, in over 200 countries and territories."
Like its US member, Catholic Charities USA, Caritas Internationalis-affilitated agencies are funded by governments,  non-governmental secular organizations  and private foundations, as well as individual donations.

Caritas was a mostly autonomous organization nominally under the authority of COR UNUM but the Vatican is planning to take greater control beginning  with its finance and personnel. In order to further the agency's now-restated first goal of "promoting the Church's social teaching" (i.e. abortion, population control, the family and "gender politics") and secondly "helping those in need," supervision of the charity is being shifted to the Vatican Secretariat of State.

Although Catholic hierarchs contribute little if any of their own funds, a Vatican official stated, "Local Caritas organizations depend on local dioceses and the true stakeholders of Caritas are the bishops and the pope."  As I previously wrote, US bishops spending the money donated by American Catholics to help the needy for reconstructing churches and seminaries in Haiti and Cuba  may be what this official has in mind.

I guess because it has 162 separate member-agencies, I couldn't find a total for the combined distribution of the entire Caritas network. The umbrella organization had income of close to 7 million euro in 2009, although in the two prior years the amount was less than 3 million.  CharityNavigator shows Catholic Charities USA income as a little more than $23 million in 2009 (the last year available).  However, Catholic Charities USA is also an umbrella organization for close to 200 local diocesan Catholic Charity agencies.

In the name of the pope, the U.S.-based Papal Foundation "has given close to $70 million in grants for the building of churches, seminaries, schools, hospitals and other projects for the care of the poor around the world." The Foundation's website shows that of 65 grants, only 5 were for the "care of the poor."  On May 5, 2011, Benedict praised members of the Foundation "for your involvement in projects aimed at integral human development, your encouragement of the apostolic activities of dioceses and religious congregations throughout the world, your concern for the education of the Church's future leaders and your support for the activities of the Holy See." (emphasis added)

Forbes Magazine – which bills itself as the leading publication for the world's business leaders – listed Pope Benedict XVI as its fifth most powerful person in the world (ahead of the British and German prime ministers) in 2010.   With all the official relief agencies of his bishops in the worldwide Catholic Church now more firmly under his control, can the pope improve his standing?

http://opentabernacle.wordpress.com/2011/05/08/popes-personal-income-200-million-annually/

I recall an Evangelist joke...

God talking to Preacher...

"Now Ernest  I want you to go out and buy yourself that big Cadilac... so you can show everyone how good it is working for the Lord..." ~ [paraphrased :P]

Maybe it wasn't a joke after all and the real joke is on those that give from their hearts :o

WHY does the Church need GOLD to worship God?

They already have no taxes and free everything... why does the Pope need $200 million dollars and then beg his followers to feed the starving children in the world?

WHY?

Simple question isn't it?

::)

Peter's Pence say's go earn that that gold like a real man Popey's. 

This practice would consist of:

Modern - Metal Detector in one hand and an eastwing pick in the other whilst scratching around for hour's on end

Kinda Modern - Grab half a crashed UFO and dig some dirt in a river and wash some water along with inside the crashed UFO

We need a Peter Pence story!

Ex-Vatican bank officials allowed money laundering, say prosecutors

Prosecutors suspect two former Vatican bank executives of laundering money, based on incomplete data on bank transfers that prosecutors say violated money laundering laws.
By Lisa Jucca and Mario Sarzanini, Reuters / July 16, 2013

(http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2013/0716-vatican-money-laundering/16370633-1-eng-US/0716-vatican-money-laundering_full_380.jpg)
The Institute for Works of Religion (IOR) is located in Vatican City. The director and deputy director of the IOR both resigned abruptly at the beginning of July. Prosecutors have not charged them with money laundering, but they say the two men created the conditions where it could take place. Stringer/Reuters/File

QuoteProsecutors allege two former top executives at the Vatican bank repeatedly broke Italian laws on money laundering by failing to give sufficient information when ordering multi-million-euro bank transfers, according to judicial documents seen by Reuters.

While the prosecutors stopped short of accusing two men who were until recently the top officials at the Vatican bank of money laundering, they said confusion over the handling of IOR accounts had created the conditions where it could take place.

Key details missing on requested transfers included the identity of the owners of the funds and the reason for transfer.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0716/Ex-Vatican-bank-officials-allowed-money-laundering-say-prosecutors

Vatican money freeze tied to second Msgr. Scarano case
By Andrea Gagliarducci

QuoteVatican City, Jul 15, 2013 / 05:20 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Although the Vatican froze funds belonging to Monsignor Nunzio Scarano after the Italian police arrested him, the hold on his account at the Vatican's Institute for Religious Works and his suspension from work are related to a separate case of alleged money laundering.

Msgr. Scarano, a suspended accountant for the Administration for the Patrimony of the Apostolic See, known by its Italian acronym APSA, is currently under arrest and charged with planning to illegally bring 20 million euro in cash into Italy aboard a government airplane.

But Msgr. Scarano is also under investigation for a separate alleged instance of money laundering, which is what triggered his funds being frozen by the Vatican on July 9, according to a source who works in one of the Vatican offices related to APSA.

According to a July 11 statement from Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Holy See Press office, the Vatican investigation "was triggered by several suspicious transactions reports filed with the Vatican Authority for Financial Information."     

Fr. Lombardi also stressed that the investigation "can be extended to additional individuals."

Msgr. Scarano is charged with money laundering using his account at the so-called Vatican bank.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-money-freeze-tied-to-different-msgr-scarano-case/

Same page is running this ad :P

(http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/9364689259017797591)

Quote from: zorgon on July 18, 2013, 09:52:50 PM
Pope says: It's illegal to report a sex crime

First of all, sorry for posting on a thread that has "Calling all Christians" in its title, as being an atheist I am not included in that category. :)

Now, could you point to what part of the Vatican law says that it's illegal to report a sex crime? I couldn't find it anywhere.

Thanks in advance. :)

As a non-practicing Irish ancestry Roman Catholic I have nothing to say, except I'll pray for you all.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

this is really slip shod posting..sorry to say

i'm disappointed


boo hoo :'(

I am not RC faith, however I want to ask the question,
If harming children is not evil, then what is?

"It would be better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he was cast into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble"

Luke 17:2

As far as it goes, the white washed sepulchers, be it cardinal, priest, or
whatever sack of bones the fancy clothes hang on, if they harm
little children they are better dead and drowned, according to Jesus.

So it would appear that this is nothing more than a typical politician
type double speak, on one hand promising to make things all better,
while out the other side making sure that whistleblowers will be punished.

Are we really supposed to believe this?

Quote"We're not going to let a dangerous law like this stand, but people need to understand that this is the Vatican, and there is a process here. Voting, incense, prayer. We ask the minors at risk to please be patient with us." -http://www.newslo.com/pope-criminalizes-the-reporting-of-sex-crimes/#sthash.iHDadkUs.dpuf

Voting, incense and prayer.  ::) ::) ::)

And I am not R/C either - but my answer to the question will be what Z might expect. Yes bts, it is "evil"!! The madness will not be stopped until ALL of Biblical prophecy is fulfilled. The "source" of the madness is not flesh and blood, but is spiritual. And it can only be dealt with and defeated by the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, which is prophesied.  All is in the "plan", and the details are set forth.

There will always be the such-like "madness", which comes in many forms, until the end of him that creates it.

"We ask the minors at risk to please be patient with us."

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q71/72605_602273363127195_415449222_n.jpg)

Quote from: ArMaP on July 18, 2013, 11:41:11 PM
First of all, sorry for posting on a thread that has "Calling all Christians" in its title, as being an atheist I am not included in that category. :)

You are forgiven :P

QuoteNow, could you point to what part of the Vatican law says that it's illegal to report a sex crime? I couldn't find it anywhere.

Do you have a copy of the actual law that we can look at? I am sure its available so we can confirm this.

I simply went to see what the MSM reports say and Time magazine vi Associated Press says "Pope Criminalizes Leaks, Sex Abuse in First Laws"

Seems to me that is enough to make a post. If its exaggerated it is usually flayed out here pretty facts. It's one thing to find it on conspiracy sites and 'trending' on Twitter and Facebook, but when AP and Time follow suit... I usually consider it worth dragging into the light of day

Thanks in advance. :)
[/quote]

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 19, 2013, 12:25:22 AM
As a non-practicing Irish ancestry Roman Catholic I have nothing to say, except I'll pray for you all.

Thank you... good vibes are always appreciated :D

It just bothers me  A LOT when charities are asking for money to feed starving children, but the Pope has more gold than Fort Knox on his dinner table and makes $200 million or whatever with all the perks...

Gets me DANDER up... sorry

Back in Toronto I used to work with the Italians (yeah they were Mob 'related' )  Back then there were a LOT of Priest being nailed for kiddie diddlin... My partner at the time, a very devote RC was shocked by one report and brought it up in the Cafe... He said he couldn't believe it. His fellows asked him which cave he had been living it, it was that bad.

It was all covered up though... priests were simply moved out of the city to another location... and it all just went away till the next time. This was in 1976...  Not much has changed since then

Quote from: rdunk on July 19, 2013, 07:17:19 AM
  All is in the "plan", and the details are set forth.

That answer may work for you, because it is a programmed response. But it's been going on for 2000 plus years.

If THAT is the plan being played out, count me out.

Quote from: zorgon on July 19, 2013, 09:00:49 AM
Do you have a copy of the actual law that we can look at? I am sure its available so we can confirm this.

I couldn't find the whole penal code, but here (http://www.vaticanstate.va/content/vaticanstate/en/stato-e-governo/legislazione-e-normativa/leggi-e-decreti.html) are the amendments VIII and IX.

Okay will try to read them tomorrow  when I can see straight (and translate Italian :P )

I suppose THIS guy gets all the blame?

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/q71/998865_484376394990189_1414229251_n.jpg)

The Carpenter said we would know a "Tree" by its fruit.

A Good "Tree" bears good fruit but a bad "Tree" bears bad fruit !

And that, a Bad "Tree", can NOT bear good fruit, nor can a good "Tree" bear bad fruit !

Do we see BAD "Fruit" or GOOD "fruit" in the churches especially the Roman church.


The Carpenter made NO reference to the Roman church or any other denomination on the Earth.

Neither did the carpenter make any mention of the Roman collection of writings, referred to as
the bible today !

Makes one wonder why ?    ::)

The Carpenter did make reference to those, who love to be seen by others, standing in the congregation,
partaking in long prayer in pretence.

And those in fine garments who love to be greeted in the market place.

Beware the Leven of the Pharisees...


The Carpenter also said, "Let NOT you put your trust in anyone except The Father ONLY".

The Word "ANYONE"; Incudes "popes", "priests", "nuns", "ministers" and any other "clergy" !

The first Rosicrucian Master was a Carpenter too :D  He said a lot of things...  Don't recall him mentioning the Romans much though

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/44cosmic_wisdom/04images/Rosicrucian/Jesus.jpg)

Here is the amendments translated into English, translation was by my software:

LAW N.VIII: SUPPLEMENTARY NORMS ON CRIMINAL LAW MATTERS (http://www.vaticanstate.va/content/dam/vaticanstate/documenti/leggi-e-decreti/Normative-Penali-e-Amministrative/Law%20N.VIII%20-%20Supplementary%20Norms%20on%20Criminal%20Law%20Matters.pdf)

LAW N. IX: AMENDMENTS TO THE CRIMINAL CODE
AND THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE CODE (http://www.vaticanstate.va/content/dam/vaticanstate/documenti/leggi-e-decreti/Normative-Penali-e-Amministrative/Law%20N.%20IX%20-%20%20Amendments%20to%20the%20Criminal%20Code%20.pdf)

Only had time to read a few paragraphs and registers of amended laws for the July 2013 updates of these events. Either way, I am betting there were all kinds of laws set by the VC that did some kind of 'shady' covering up for the entirety of the RC religious dominating agenda.

$200M would feed a lot of people for sure, annually, it would solve the hunger and degraded living problems as well, sad place to be with hands out and nothing short of what we would consider a Ponzi scheme from day 1 I am sure.

1WW

Is it just the R/C faith that does this to childred or do all the rest of the faiths do it also and we just don't hear about it? There are several hundred faiths around...many childred go missing each year. I wonder if some of them end up on a sacrafice alter...Or on their knees praying to get out.

Sorry in advance ;)

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/vaseline-vatican_zps582c7e94.jpg)

Elvis ;)

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/pontifex_maximus_small_zpse7c1f33a.jpg)

:P

Quote from: deuem on July 19, 2013, 11:24:28 AM
Is it just the R/C faith that does this to childred or do all the rest of the faiths do it also and we just don't hear about it? There are several hundred faiths around...many childred go missing each year. I wonder if some of them end up on a sacrafice alter...Or on their knees praying to get out.

I believe you are right Deuem, but you won't hear anything about it on this site. Only the Catholic faith and from time to time, Jews, seem to get special attention. As I said earlier....

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 19, 2013, 12:25:22 AM
As a non-practicing Irish ancestry Roman Catholic I have nothing to say, except I'll pray for you all.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Dont pray for me Sarge, I dont want or need it thanks mate.

Of course it is not just the kiddie fiddling catholics that need to put their house in order. All organised religion is a scam.
Religion as i have said many times before ad nauseum, is a very simple and effective control construct, that feeds on fear ,and the base instinct inherant in all of us which is that of kinship.
Alignment if you will with the group, or the herd.

It works EXACTLY the same way that patriotism works.

It is cold, hard and mechanical.

Elvis.

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on July 19, 2013, 01:01:07 PM

Dont pray for me Sarge, I dont want or need it thanks mate.

Of course it is not just the kiddie fiddling catholics that need to put their house in order. All organised religion is a scam.
Religion as i have said many times before ad nauseum, is a very simple and effective control construct, that feeds on fear ,and the base instinct inherant in all of us which is that of kinship.
Alignment if you will with the group, or the herd.

It works EXACTLY the same way that patriotism works.

It is cold, hard and mechanical.

Elvis.

Sorry but I pray for everyone! Yes even you :D

Quote from: deuem on July 19, 2013, 11:24:28 AM
Is it just the R/C faith that does this to childred or do all the rest of the faiths do it also and we just don't hear about it? There are several hundred faiths around...many childred go missing each year. I wonder if some of them end up on a sacrafice alter...Or on their knees praying to get out.

No, it's not just the RC, but even some (too many) Christians seem to need a close enemy to point when things go wrong.

A quick check shows

Major Religions (http://www.howmanyarethere.org/tag/religions) Chart
1. Christianity 2.1 billion  About 32%, Anyone who uses the bible
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion 394 million
6. Buddhism 376 million (see also buddhism by country)
7. Primal indigenous 300 million
8. African traditional and diasporic 100 million
9. Sikhism 23 million
10. Juche 19 million
11. Spiritism 15 million
12. Judaism 14 million
13. Bahá'í Faith 7 million
14. Jainism 4.2 million
15. Shinto 4 million
16. Cao Dai 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo 2 million
19. Neopaganism 1 million
20. Unitarian Universalism 800,000
21. Rastafari movement 600,000

The 21 groups break down into 270+ sub groups
I have never heard about this one and will have to ask.. Chinese traditional religion

I guess there is enough here to keep the thread going for years...



No religion accounts for alot of the worlds population and it is growing. Why no religion is on a chart for religion I have not got a clue. It would almost be better if there were a Number 22 that read "Don't Know". By putting it on the list it looks like it is a religion. I'm stumped on that one..
Christianity is dropping all over the world.
Islam is growing
And I wonder about Number 17, "Zoro" hum!

Quote from: deuem on July 19, 2013, 11:24:28 AM
Is it just the R/C faith that does this to childred or do all the rest of the faiths do it also and we just don't hear about it? There are several hundred faiths around...many childred go missing each year. I wonder if some of them end up on a sacrafice alter...Or on their knees praying to get out.

While sin is sin, whatever and wherever it is, yes, the Protestant Churches are very different from the Roman Catholic Church. I certainly no expert on the differences. I know their Bible has differences, and no, I can't speak to that either.

My thought relative to the "madness" is that the R/C Church organization, and its commitment to "celibacy" of the priesthood, makes it a more easy target for the evil that is in the world. Humans are designed to have sexual relations, between a man and a woman, and those resulting designed-in urges are normal functions. When there is absolutely no outlet for sexual relations, as is for the R/C priesthood...........................then the "madness" happens, at the hand of the "evil one" - easy and unprepared targets.

Of course, such can and does happen in other circumstances too, with men - but always at the hand of the evil one. A really big thing for all of us is, it is just so shocking to hear how wide-spread it apparently is in the Catholic priesthood. A very sick and disturbing situation - almost terroristic for the kids and families!!!

Of course, given as MHO and observation!

Rdunk, just because its your HO doesn't mean it's not true. It's fact and was very well put.

Elvis

This is a well balanced article written by someone who is approaching the problem!

The truth will heal: The Catholic Church and the Royal Commission

Source:

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/06/24/3788319.htm

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on July 19, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
Rdunk, just because its your HO doesn't mean it's not true. It's fact and was very well put.

Elvis

Elvis, thanks for your comments!! The OP subject matter is very real, but it is not so easy to openly discuss the details, particularly in an open forum, with so many different personal realities in life. But when it comes to mistreating and endangering the lives of children all over the world, in the R/C Church, I mean, wherein is our reality of "normal human life"?? It certainly is not in taking our kids to church to be sexually molested, and psychologically affected for life.

The outcry maybe needs to be for all Catholic parents to keep their kids out of and away from the "Catholic Church".  The kids are being so wrongfully used. And again, my comments are based upon the open news that has been available for a long long time. One difference now is, we know for fact that the Catholic priesthood at all levels has done everything necessary to keep it quite and under cover.

From what we see and read, the Roman Catholic Church is more about the organization of the Church, and the priesthood from the bottom up, to including the Pope and the Vatican, than it is about the PEOPLE. And that is very sad, as the Word is very clear, that the people of Christ/Christians are the Church.

To correct the "known madness", I would suggest for every Catholic Church to "fire" all Catholic clergy, including the Pope, and the people start talking to God directly, as that is what He wants anyway! Just get rid of all of them. That is the only way to be most certain about the desired outcomes. Yes, that would make a mess for the Catholics for a little while, but it instantly would take the kids out of any possibility of a continuing sexual harassment environment.

Could call such action "the 2013 Catholic Spring"! Nuff said, I guess! 8)

One more thing - if I had been brought up in the Catholic Church, and was a Catholic up to these recent years, I couldn't get away from this mess fast enough!! Actually, I would have been out of it a long time before now!!! The madness is.............. only as the madness is allowed! To the R/C's, quit allowing it, and stop it totally and completely, whatever action that might take!!!!

If anyone actually bothers to read my post above it's clear that even though some like me are not so fond on Hailing Mary so to speak, that folke like me (who Christians and Muslim's are forever trying to convert) are not against people who do good thing's.

As evidenced here:

http://www.tjhcouncil.org.au/

QuoteThe Truth, Justice and Healing Council is coordinating the Catholic
Church's response to the Royal Commission with a commitment to cooperation, openness, full disclosure and justice for victims and survivors.

There is no point taking side's in this matter when Children have been proven to be Systematically abused though a power structure within Power Structure's where they should never, EVER seen that Horror. 

I will put it plainly, and sorry if this offends the readership here but this is the truth to the matter and YOU SHOULD CARE about it! 

A Man or Woman of the Cloth place's their genitals in place's they should never have been inside.  In many case's a Grown Man will place their Penis inside the Bottom of a Young Boy for Sexual Pleasure.

If anyone has a problem with how I have described it, all I can say is sorry, as that is the truth.  Truth in the Church,  and Also truth in other Non-Chuch aspect's of life. 

The Church in Question though has a long history of this Very Matter.

No need defend your religion, only a fool would try to change that!  DO it for the Kid's that have had their innocence Raped without consent!

 

Quote from: Somamech on July 19, 2013, 08:13:41 PM
This is a well balanced article written by someone who is approaching the problem!

The truth will heal: The Catholic Church and the Royal Commission

Source:

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/06/24/3788319.htm

Yes soma, that is balanced, and a LOT of words....................but, doesn't it seem that the wolf is still in charge of the hen-house?? In the hen house, it is ok for the roosters to be in charge, but when the wolves not only are allowed in, but are allowed to "feed on the chickens" (and on the roosters), the wolves will continue to get fat, as long as the chickens continue to live there.

You know, with this "problem", and the seemingly inability to resolve it, I am reminded of what we are now seeing with our U.S. Federal Government. No matter the problem, there is almost no one that steps up and claims responsibility, and especially not the President. Like right now, the IRS, and the many ways of its abuse that has been revealed - too big to fail, and nobody taking responsibility.

The people should be in charge - the Catholics in charge of the Catholic Church, all of the way up t the Vatican - and we the people, all of the way up to the President, and including the SCOTUS!   

To Add:

I would like to think we are all smart enough to figure out that there is a Systematic Plague in Religious Structure's, and especially the Roman Catholic Church.

This aint some game of "UFO's are real or not parlay".  This is hard Documented Evidence.

I do believe that the Christian or Islamic Religion have many great aspect's, along with some of the Buddhist teaching's.

Grown Up's... splaying kids with their love jewels is not Cool in any manner, and ESPECIALLY NOT COOL when it's done by those of the Cloth. 



   

Quote from: rdunk on July 19, 2013, 08:43:01 PM
The people should be in charge - the Catholics in charge of the Catholic Church, all of the way up t the Vatican - and we the people, all of the way up to the President, and including the SCOTUS!

True "We the people..." need to do like Egypt, Brazil and Turkey did... rise up as one force and just walk in and oust them.

As long as "We the people..." sit and whine and bitch about how bad things are NOTHING will change... "We the people..." have the power to change it but they would rather make excuses then actually DO something.

"We the people..." are lazy complacent and apathetic.  But they can sit in computer chairs and take on the world :P

Quote from: rdunk on July 19, 2013, 08:43:01 PM
Yes soma, that is balanced, and a LOT of words....................but, doesn't it seem that the wolf is still in charge of the hen-house?? In the hen house, it is ok for the roosters to be in charge, but when the wolves not only are allowed in, but are allowed to "feed on the chickens" (and on the roosters), the wolves will continue to get fat, as long as the chickens continue to live there.

You know, with this "problem", and the seemingly inability to resolve it, I am reminded of what we are now seeing with our U.S. Federal Government. No matter the problem, there is almost no one that steps up and claims responsibility, and especially not the President. Like right now, the IRS, and the many ways of its abuse that has been revealed - too big to fail, and nobody taking responsibility.

The people should be in charge - the Catholics in charge of the Catholic Church, all of the way up t the Vatican - and we the people, all of the way up to the President, and including the SCOTUS!

Yeah sorry it is long  :-\

I listen to these discussion's on radio nearly every day, kinda keeps me balanced compared to the rant's and beef's on CT boards  :D

Yeah funny you mention that about they will do what they want.  I still believe and know action can change things which are silly, but it would appear they are slim picking's these day's. 

I found myself saying the other day that my vote doesn't count.... and that is scary dude  :'(

Quote from: Somamech on July 19, 2013, 08:34:09 PM
If anyone actually bothers to read my post above it's clear that even though some like me are not so fond on Hailing Mary so to speak, that folke like me (who Christians and Muslim's are forever trying to convert) are not against people who do good thing's.

just so you know, I could care less if you believe or don't believe. No one here is trying to convert anyone, (except the existence of Moon Anomalies) ;)

but for your edification:

The Hail Mary (sometimes called the "Angelical salutation", sometimes, from the first words in its Latin form, the "Ave Maria") is the most familiar of all the prayers used by the Universal Church in honour of our Blessed Lady.

It is commonly described as consisting of three parts. The first, "Hail (Mary) full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women", embodies the words used by the Angel Gabriel in saluting the Blessed Virgin (Luke, I, 28). The second, "and blessed is the fruit of thy womb (Jesus)", is borrowed from the Divinely inspired greeting of St. Elizabeth (Luke 1:42), which attaches itself the more naturally to the first part, because the words "benedicta tu in mulieribus" (I, 28) or "inter mulieres" (I, 42) are common to both salutations. Finally, the petition "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen." is stated by the official "Catechism of the Council of Trent" to have been framed by the Church itself. "Most rightly", says the Catechism, "has the Holy Church of God added to this thanksgiving, petition also and the invocation of the most holy Mother of God, thereby implying that we should piously and suppliantly have recourse to her in order that by her intercession she may reconcile God with us sinners and obtain for us the blessing we need both for this present life and for the life which has no end."

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Peace and love to all
8)
Rock

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 19, 2013, 12:35:13 PM
I believe you are right Deuem, but you won't hear anything about it on this site. Only the Catholic faith and from time to time, Jews, seem to get special attention. As I said earlier....

One can only report on what is available in the news

Do Muslim priest run porno businesses, diddle kiddies or handle millions of dollars and have gold everything on their dinner table? I don't know... have never seen it or heard about it

Muslims do have other issues like stoning women and cutting off heads, but I have never seen a love of GOLD and Money from that group... nor do these type of stories come from Jews or Budhists

Are they pure? Hell no as Elvis said ORGANIZED religion is the Devil Incarnate :P

And fess up... even most people that call themselves true Christians see the evil that is the RCC... Isn't that why Luther and all the other current factions split off in the first place?

No one is attacking a FAITH here... just the evil practises of what is called a 'religion'

The fact that people have trouble separating the BELIEVE from the PRACTICE is the main issue

So okay here is one story from the EVIL MUSLIM'S  It's from DUBAI, a country trying to present a new modern version of the Arab World...

HORRIFYING: AUSTRALIAN WOMAN GANG RAPED IN DUBAI – THEN JAILED 8 MONTHS FOR SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE

(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-13-at-3.02.13-PM-620x354.png)

QuoteAlicia Gali of Australia was excited about her new job in the "desert paradise" of Dubai.  American-owned Starwood Hotels, one of the world's largest hotel groups, even offered to pay for her plane ticket and accommodations as part of the contract that she become a manager.

The United Arab Emirates had been aggressively targeting Australia for tourists when she took the job in 2008, portraying itself as "really progressive and forward-thinking and the 'new' Middle East," Gali said.  But when she got there, she found another world entirely.

After being drugged and gang-raped by three of her colleagues, Gali says she found no help from her superiors at the hotel.  After she took herself to the hospital, she was thrown in jail for eight months for sex outside of marriage.

Gali's Australian attorney explained that, as far as she understands, the crime is only considered rape under the country's strict Islamic laws if there are "four adult, male Muslim witnesses that can provide evidence that the sex was non-consensual."

Years later, Gali has granted her first television interview to Yahoo 7 News' Ross Coulthart, and the news organization traveled all over the world to get to the bottom of the story.

(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-13-at-3.02.53-PM-620x408.png)

QuoteAccording to the report, it was discovered that the assault was planned well in advance, down to the criminals putting a shirt and a plastic bag in Gali's drain so it would flood, leaving her no real place to go late that night but down to the hotel bar.

She brought her laptop, ordered one drink, and some of her colleagues came over to put some more ice in it.


"I don't even remember finishing the drink.  The next thing I know I woke up at 4:30 in the afternoon the next day," she said.  "The door to my apartment was ajar.  I was completely naked with just my bra hanging off my shoulder.  I woke up in pain.  I had broken ribs and massive bruising on a lot of my body."

There were reports of screams near her room that night, but Alicia doesn't remember what happened.  Security was dispatched and three naked men were seen in the room, but it is unclear exactly what action was taken.

When Gali asked a senior manager how she could get home — the hotel was hanging onto her passport, presumably for safekeeping — she was allegedly told that she had a "debt" to them since they had paid for her flight and accommodations, and had not yet fulfilled the contract that would allow them to recoup their costs.

The interviewer repeated incredulously: "You've been raped. You're asking for your passport so you can get medical assistance. And they're saying ?you owe them money?"

With no idea what to do, Gali called the Australian consulate.

"All [the representative] said to me is reconsider your need to be in the country at this time, and that if I had been drugged there could be issues with drug laws in the country and that I could face life imprisonment.  I explained to her that the hotel was holding my passport and I couldn't go anywhere," but the representative did not offer to give her an emergency passport, Gali says.

According to Yahoo 7 News, " the Australian government was actively trying to suppress [Gali's] story" at the time, telling her family not to speak with the media.

QuoteEventually the pain of what turned out to be four broken ribs became too much to bear, so Gali took herself to the hospital.

"[The hospital staff] said, 'Do you want to tell the police so that the men can be arrested?'" Gali recalled.  "And I said the hotel told me that I might have some issues with the fact that I had a drink, they said no don't worry about it you're Christian, you're not Muslim, it's fine.  Report the rape."

They didn't tell her that if she couldn't provide the four male, Muslim witnesses, reporting a rape is essentially an admission of sex outside marriage.

Gali was quickly sentenced to a year in jail — 11 months for sex outside of marriage and 1 month for drinking alcohol — and 2 of the accused rapists got the same sentence.  The third got an extra month.

"I was petrified...I was absolutely terrified," she recalled.

For eight months, Gali shared a "disgusting" cell with thirty other women where she says they sometimes didn't turn the water on for days at a time during the middle of summer.

She was pardoned at eight months and allowed to go home.  So were her rapists.

Since that time, Gali still struggles with what she has endured.  She has been diagnosed with severe post-traumatic stress disorder and, according to various reports, is taking legal action against the Commonwealth of Australia for its role in the matter.

Both Starwood hotels and the Australian consulate in Dubai reject Gali's accusations that they acted improperly, the former saying it provided "support and assistance" and that the safety of its employees is a "paramount priority," the latter claiming she was provided with "extensive consular assistance" but adding that consular officers are not responsible for administering legal advice.

Watch Yahoo 7 News' entire two-part report on Alicia Gali's story, below:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/13/horrifying-australian-woman-gang-raped-in-dubai-then-jailed-for-8-months-for-sex-outside-marriage/

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/article/-/17094076/abandoned/


So there ya go... Issues but different  All Australians especially women should watch that interview

Quote from: 1Worldwatcher on July 19, 2013, 11:11:45 AM
$200M would feed a lot of people for sure, annually, it would solve the hunger and degraded living problems as well, sad place to be with hands out and nothing short of what we would consider a Ponzi scheme from day 1 I am sure.

(http://kenraggio.com/Pope-Gold-Pearls.jpg)
Mwhahahaha MINE  all MINE!!!!!

THIS is my problem... HOW can ANYONE follow an organization that supposedly is about pioty and selflessness and "Christian' charity when the head of it has so much gold just to eat dinner

and at the same time our news has stories like THIS

Mom denied food stamps shoots kids, kills self

QuoteSAN ANTONIO - A Texas woman who for months was unable to qualify for food stamps pulled a gun in a state welfare office and held a seven-hour standoff with police that ended with her shooting her two children before killing herself, officials said Tuesday.

The 10-year-old boy and 12-year-old girl remained in critical condition Tuesday. Authorities identified the mother as Rachelle Grimmer, 38, and children Ramie and Timothy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57337766/mom-denied-food-stamps-shoots-kids-kills-self/

Is religion not supposed to be the comfort? I hear them all the time on TV especially the Catholic charities asking for money to save some starving African child while here in the US people cannot even get food stamps.

How much of that money collect for Africa ends up buying more gold candle sticks for that dinner table?

I JUST DON'T GET IT how anyone can condone this and turn a blind eye to it and make excuses. I seem to recall that Jesus was as pissed off about it as I am and so was Moses :P

(http://www.ezek22.net/s/golden.calf.jpg)

(http://wp.patheos.com/community/carlgregg/files/2011/10/294628_2323943610280_1000307169_32558094_440576784_n.jpeg)

Hey I got an idea. Since America's the riches country on the face of the planet, let's take everyones' money, the entire riches of the U.S. and feed the poor? Or how about Russia & China?...They're countries you say,,,I say there is no difference.
Btw that's not dinner. That's the celebration of the Eurcharist..Nice pic though to make a point.... ::)

so now what? oh I know ;D



Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Peace and love to all
8)
Rock

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 19, 2013, 09:46:33 PM
Hey I got an idea. Since America's the riches country on the face of the planet, let's take everyones' money, the entire riches of the U.S. and feed the poor? Or how about Russia & China?...They're countries you say,,,I say there is no difference.
Btw that's not dinner. That's the celebration of the Eurcharist..Nice pic though to make a point.... ::)

so now what? oh I know ;D



Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Peace and love to all
8)
Rock

Then get them to quit using such titles as the "Christian Children's Fund" or "Pro-claimers of Christ Fund raisers" or "Give Well Charities International" (http://www.givewell.org/charities) ? These are all the  evaluated charities and there ranking for international funds throughout the US citizens, we have given more than we have ever taken. I am not a Christian, but when an associate or a person affiliated with such an organization sees the good deeds I do on my own, knowing I am an atheist, they say I have a 'Christian foundation' ??? REALLY? thought I was just being 'Human' for the most part.

If this was such a 'Global Catastrophe' where's the VC ramparts of help? I find them apprehensive due to greed. Cut and dry. Other religion's have their problems, no doubt, but the head of the monster of mind control is the Christian faith and there by Christian associated religious ideals with in the religion's.

Sorry Sgt. just can't turn the other cheek to the absolute, irrefutable truth of the matter at hand. Go back before the time of the Byzantines and you won't find a mention of any great god, may find a few (Blasphemous by Christian Religion's) pagan worshiped deities, err go the beginning of the blood bath that followed Christianity after it's inception unto the world of old. As the rest of the Gods of ancient societies were Pagan belief systems, Christianity is not only pagan in practice's continued today, those at the beginning were out for control, and now they have gotten it.

Sad, but true. :(

1WW

One question: who lives in a mostly Catholic country?

Hey all
Just my 2 cents.

I agree with Matrix on this one If you dont try to follow the teaching of "the carpenter" or Jesus as I call him your are barking up the wrong tree.After I figured this out I became discusted with all organised religion. He is tha game changer in my opinion. My fife was hard core RC and she is starting to understand.

May Jesus or as Matrex says the carpenter Bless all of you as you think of him.
Bless
Shawn

"Then get them to quit using such titles as the "Christian Children's Fund" or "Pro-claimers of Christ Fund raisers" or "Give Well Charities International" ?"

I'll get on that right away..one of my first priorities tomorrow...

"Go back before the time of the Byzantines and you won't find a mention of any great god, may find a few (Blasphemous by Christian Religion's) pagan worshiped deities, err go the beginning of the blood bath that followed Christianity after it's inception unto the world of old. As the rest of the Gods of ancient societies were Pagan belief systems, Christianity is not only pagan in practice's continued today, those at the beginning were out for control, and now they have gotten it."

Well Yahweh hadn't arrived yet. His starship had to land somewhere and at some time .

As far as bloodbaths go, Christian's have their fair share of blame, but man has been killing each other long before and long after the Catholic Church entered the picture.... So let's be real....

As I said in my first post on this, I'm not a 'practicing Roman Catholic. I do pray, I do talk to God every single day. I thank him for allowing me to live my dream. But man created the rules of the church and men make mistakes. My foundation of Christian teachings has done me well, but I'm my on person and of free will. God knows what's in my heart.

And that's enough for me. ;)

Rock

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 19, 2013, 10:54:42 PM
And that's enough for me. ;)
Rock

And that is true Faith Sgt. !! Not the herding of the masses I am so used to dealing with in such association's. ;)

Oh,, on the Blodbath thingy, that all started because some cave dude stole another cave dudes pet rock, then the cave dude that got his pet rock taken figured out he could own all the pet rocks on the beach, and the fight was on!! LOL :P

The beginning of control and greed right there...HA ha ha ha ha!  8)

1WW

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 19, 2013, 09:46:33 PM
That's the celebration of the Eurcharist..Nice pic though to make a point.... ::)

Ah well you said you were non practicing :P  Looks like dinner to me but in any case its a LOT of Gold... does that enhance the celebration any?

yeah  I see the Queen has a little GOLD too  but wait  is that Obama I see?

(http://i.usatoday.net/news/gallery/2011/n110525_obamastrip/16-pg-horizontal.jpg)

Yup sure is :P

(http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/obamas-dinner/barack-michelle-obama-queen-elizabeth-state-dinner-10.jpg)

Quoteso now what? oh I know ;D

So your saying its okay for the Pope to hoard gold and covet money because corrupt greedy governments hoard gold and covet money

Aren't they supposed to be above that sorta thing?

::)

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 19, 2013, 10:54:42 PM
I'll get on that right away..one of my first priorities tomorrow...

Well see that you do :P and while your at is see what the Red cross did fith the 6 billion they collected for Japan that never got there certain;y not one sent for at least three months...  Report back on Monday :P

::)

QuoteWell Yahweh hadn't arrived yet. His starship had to land somewhere and at some time .

Hmmm good point... at least we are on the same page on that one :P

QuoteAs far as bloodbaths go, Christian's have their fair share of blame, but man has been killing each other long before and long after the Catholic Church entered the picture.... So let's be real....

yes man is a violent species.... BUT wasn't religion and a fear of or belief in a god SUPPOSED to make us realize we were a violent species and we could do better? I THOUGHT that was why religions were created... to keep us in peace, turn the other cheek, love they fellow man... etc etc 

NOT lead the charge to wipe out the other guy's god

QuoteAs I said in my first post on this, I'm not a 'practicing Roman Catholic. I do pray, I do talk to God every single day. I thank him for allowing me to live my dream. But man created the rules of the church and men make mistakes. My foundation of Christian teachings has done me well, but I'm my on person and of free will. God knows what's in my heart.

I did say I am not against any FAITH... just the corrupt religions. In Tibet they say "A Thousand Monks, A Thousand Religions"  Yup that be true...  We don't need the Gold Candleabras to believe.

Muslims say they are a religion of peace, that the peaceful ones are the majority... yet they will not lift a finger to stop their own fanatics.... oh WAIT there is a glimmer of hope... they marched on mass in Egypt and Turkey :D and tossed out the top guy...

I want to see THIS

(http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2011/04/24/vatican-pope-easter_lea_s640x427.jpg?73b8e21685896c3f2859310aaa5adb253919b641)

followed by THIS

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/710237579.jpg?1356891782)

If religion is the problem rather than the solution... then its time to burn down the churhes

Quote from: zorgon on July 20, 2013, 01:04:28 AM
If religion is the problem rather than the solution... then its time to burn down the churhes

Religion is not the problem, the problem is the human need of following something, be it religion, politics, sports or esoteric ideas, when mixed with other human need, the need of having an enemy, so they can have a target for their anger.

Quote from: zorgon on July 19, 2013, 09:24:13 PM
(http://kenraggio.com/Pope-Gold-Pearls.jpg)
Mwhahahaha MINE  all MINE!!!!!
I seem to recall that Jesus was as pissed off about it as I am and so was Moses :P

Yes, he was. He used his harshest cutting language for the
the saducees and pharisees, calling them snakes.


But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, 'Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father''" (Mat 3:7-9).

He overturned the moneychangers tables that had set up a market
outside the temple. He made a whip from cords. I would say that he
had anger toward the people that were all about $.

John 2
And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

15And when he had made a whip of small cords,
he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen;
and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

16And said to them that sold doves, Take these things hence;
make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. ...

Somehow, I think Jesus would have some very harsh words
for the leaders in the Vatican that oversee all of this wealth,
and horde it for the wealth and power it brings to the instiution,
which is the Holy See.

Thanks for posting that story Zorgs, I had forgotten about that:

QuoteHORRIFYING: AUSTRALIAN WOMAN GANG RAPED IN DUBAI – THEN JAILED 8 MONTHS FOR SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE

Here are the videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUM3pTwp6xY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1og40C20lJI

One of the Comments under the first video just about sums up the Islamic viewpoint towards Western Women (And women in General)

QuoteMsalman2011 1 day ago

This comment has received too many negative votes

stupid white bitches. then don't go. i like it here we frack white girls and they end up going to jail and us Arab men enjoy fracking of them because white women are filthy whores. thank god for? sharia law

To which the Poster of the videos replies:

Quoteandresisthename . 20 hours ago

This is a comment every western woman should see before they go to Dubai, thank you for your contribution to? this thread, I figure there's little to prove about this video after one reads the comments of these savage Islamist in this thread. To all the western women that want to go to those countries, this is what awaits you, don't become another Alicia!

Yes, and our Government are bending over backwards to find some sort of justice for this young women.

Aren't they ??????  :'(

Even though I am NOT a RC or of any other denomination !

Let's see what the Carpenter has to say...

Recorded in the Roman collection of writings some refer to as the bible today...


"The Gospel According to Matthew" in Ch. 7 verses 8 to 23

Quote8. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth;
and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


9. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?


10. Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?


11. If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?


12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way,
that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:


14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.


15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly
they are ravening wolves.


16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns,
or figs of thistles?


17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree
bringeth forth evil fruit.


18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree
bring forth good fruit.


19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
and cast into the fire.


20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


21. Not every one that saith unto me,
Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will
of my Father which is in heaven.


22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name?

and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?


23. And then will I profess unto them,

I never knew you:

depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now this is ODD

This out today making the rounds... had me confuddled for a bit


Marte Deborah Dalelv, Alleged Norwegian Rape Victim, Pardoned After Being Sentenced To Jail For Sex Outside Marriage
By BRIAN MURPHY 07/22/13

WTF???

(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1253984/thumbs/s-MARTE-DEBORAH-DALELV-large.jpg?13)

QuoteDUBAI, United Arab Emirates — With her passport back in hand, a Norwegian woman at the center of a Dubai rape claim dispute said Monday that officials dropped her 16-month sentence for having sex outside marriage in the latest clash between the city's Islamic-based legal codes and its international branding as a Western-friendly haven.

Dubai authorities hope the pardon of the 24-year-old woman will allow them to sidestep another potentially embarrassing blow to the city's heavily promoted image as a forward-looking model of luxury, excess and cross-cultural understanding.

"I am very, very happy," Marte Deborah Dalelv told The Associated Press after she was cleared by the order of Dubai's ruler. "I am overjoyed."

But the case points to wider issues embedded in the rapid rise of Gulf centers such as Dubai and Qatar's capital of Doha, host for the 2022 World Cup. These cities' cosmopolitan ambitions often find themselves at odds with the tug of traditional views on sex and alcohol.

Both alcohol consumption without a proper license and sex outside marriage are outlawed, but the rules are difficult to enforce and generally only become an issue if authorities are alerted. Most foreign residents and visitors coast through Dubai's tolerant lifestyle. Women in full Islamic coverings shop alongside others in miniskirts, and liquor flows at resorts and restaurants. Yet once authorities determine a legal line has been crossed, it's often difficult and bewildering for the suspects.

Nowhere in the region are the two sides more in potential conflict than Dubai, where the expatriate workforce outnumbers locals 5-to-1 and millions of tourists arrive each year with high-end fun on their minds.

Dalelv, in Dubai for a business meeting, said she told police in March that she was raped by a co-worker after a night that included cocktails. She was held in custody for four days and sentenced last week for illicit sex outside marriage and alcohol consumption.

The alleged attacker, identified as a 33-year-old Sudanese man, was charged with the same offenses and received a 13-month sentence. He also cleared by a pardon, according to Dalelv.

Rape prosecutions are complicated in the United Arab Emirates because – as in some other countries influenced by Islamic law – conviction requires either a confession or the testimony of adult male witnesses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/marte-deborah-dalelv-pardoned-dubai_n_3633809.html


Looks like the same story? but one is Australian and one Norwegian? One pardoned the other not?

WTF is going on here?


{{{puts out otter bait :P }}}

https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/index.aspx

Aussie Passport Guidelines:

Camera operator guidelines

http://www.passports.gov.au/Web/Requirements/PhotographGuidelines.aspx

(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-13-at-3.02.53-PM-620x408.png)

Hmmmmm

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1070020_181203832056168_784268664_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/988252_181205512056000_574288071_n.jpg)

otter bait..ha ha

had to take a minute to go find it.. read it earlier





http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/marte-deborah-dalelv-pardoned-dubai_n_3633809.html

Marte Deborah Dalelv, Alleged Norwegian Rape Victim, Pardoned After Being Sentenced To Jail For Sex Outside Marriage
By BRIAN MURPHY 07/22/13 04:40 PM ET EDT 

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — With her passport back in hand, a Norwegian woman at the center of a Dubai rape claim dispute said Monday that officials dropped her 16-month sentence for having sex outside marriage in the latest clash between the city's Islamic-based legal codes and its international branding as a Western-friendly haven.

Dubai authorities hope the pardon of the 24-year-old woman will allow them to sidestep another potentially embarrassing blow to the city's heavily promoted image as a forward-looking model of luxury, excess and cross-cultural understanding.

"I am very, very happy," Marte Deborah Dalelv told The Associated Press after she was cleared by the order of Dubai's ruler. "I am overjoyed."

But the case points to wider issues embedded in the rapid rise of Gulf centers such as Dubai and Qatar's capital of Doha, host for the 2022 World Cup. These cities' cosmopolitan ambitions often find themselves at odds with the tug of traditional views on sex and alcohol.

Both alcohol consumption without a proper license and sex outside marriage are outlawed, but the rules are difficult to enforce and generally only become an issue if authorities are alerted. Most foreign residents and visitors coast through Dubai's tolerant lifestyle. Women in full Islamic coverings shop alongside others in miniskirts, and liquor flows at resorts and restaurants. Yet once authorities determine a legal line has been crossed, it's often difficult and bewildering for the suspects.

Nowhere in the region are the two sides more in potential conflict than Dubai, where the expatriate workforce outnumbers locals 5-to-1 and millions of tourists arrive each year with high-end fun on their minds.

Dalelv, in Dubai for a business meeting, said she told police in March that she was raped by a co-worker after a night that included cocktails. She was held in custody for four days and sentenced last week for illicit sex outside marriage and alcohol consumption.

The alleged attacker, identified as a 33-year-old Sudanese man, was charged with the same offenses and received a 13-month sentence. He also cleared by a pardon, according to Dalelv.

Rape prosecutions are complicated in the United Arab Emirates because – as in some other countries influenced by Islamic law – conviction requires either a confession or the testimony of adult male witnesses.


In a twist that often shocks Western observers, allegations of rape can boomerang into illegal sex charges for the accuser. In 2008, an Australian woman said she was jailed for eight months after claiming she was gang-raped at a UAE hotel.

The fears of sex-outside-marriage charges also lead some single domestic workers in the UAE to abandon their babies or seek back-room abortions.

Other, less serious, cases have also shed light on the tensions in Dubai between cosmopolitan modernity and Muslim legal codes and tribal traditions. In 2009, a British couple was sentenced to one month each in prison after an Emirati woman claimed they engaged in an overly passionate kiss. Motorists have been convicted for a rude gesture in a moment of road rage.

"I have my passport back. I am pardoned," said Dalelv, who worked for an interior design firm in Qatar. "I am free."

There was no immediate word from Dubai officials, including whether the pardon was linked to traditions of clemency during the current Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

"I have my life back," added Dalelv. "This is a great day."

Her mother, Evelyn Dalelv, told the AP from Norway she is "incredibly happy" at the outcome, but thinks her daughter would consider returning to the Middle East after further study in interior design.

"Luckily, she is going back to study in Oslo in the autumn," she said.

A statement Saturday from Dalelv's Qatar-based employer, Al Mana Interiors, said she was dismissed from her job after she "ceased communications" with the company following the alleged rape. But Thomas Lundgren, owner of The ONE, the Dubai-based company that franchises Al Mana, was quoted Monday by Arabianbusiness.com as saying that the firing was "a mistake" and said she can return if she wants.

In Norway, Foreign Minister Espen Barth Eide posted a Twitter message: "Marte is released! Thanks to everyone who signed up to help."

Barth Eide told the Norwegian news agency NTB that international media attention and Norway's diplomatic measures helped Dalelv, who was free on appeal with her next court hearing scheduled for early September. Norway also reminded the United Arab Emirates of obligations under U.N. accords to seriously investigate claims of violence against women.

"The United Arab Emirates and Dubai is a rapidly changing society. This decision won't only affect Marte Dalelv, who can travel home now if she wishes to, but also serve as a wake-up call regarding the legal situation in many other countries," Barth Eide was quoted as saying.

Norway's Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg wrote on Twitter: "Happy that Marte has been pardoned and that she is a free woman again."

Dalelv said she planned to leave the UAE soon, but first wanted "to thank some very special people," including local groups that supported her. She had been staying at a Norwegian-linked aid center.

The AP does not identify the names of alleged sexual assault victims, but Dalelv went public voluntarily to talk to media.

In an interview with the AP last week, she recalled that she fled to the hotel lobby and asked for the police to be called after the alleged attack. The hotel staff asked if she was sure she wanted to involve the police, Dalelv said.

"Of course I want to call the police," she said. "That is the natural reaction where I am from."

Norway's foreign minister said he and other "very high level" Norwegian officials had been in daily contact with counterparts in the United Arab Emirates since the verdict against Dalelv.

"We have made very clear what we think about this verdict and what we think about the fact that one is charged and sentenced when one starts out by reporting alleged abuse," Barth Eide said.

In London, a rights group monitoring UAE affairs urged authorities to change laws to "ensure victims are protected, feel comfortable reporting crimes and are able to fairly pursue justice."

"While we are pleased that Marte can now return home to Norway, her pardon still suggests that she was somehow guilty of a crime," said Rori Donaghy, a spokesman for the Emirates Center for Human Rights. "Until laws are reformed, victims of sexual violence in the UAE will continue to suffer in this way and we will likely see more cases such as this one."

So we have TWO cases and the women look remarkably alike... one case pardoned, the other not

Okay  I think my garden needs me :P

THIS IS A RANT.........YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED



you are now stuck with my big fat loud opinion on this and other idiot men's stuff going on around the world right now
this particular occurance where the woman was raped and when she reported it SHE went to jail for sex outside of marriage.

WHAT !!!!!!!!

mostly the stupid repugs religious men trying to close the abortion clinics and saying women are inferior..and the continued raping of women (and boys) in countries all over  just because they want to...and then blame the victims

i am 64+ years in this particular meat suit and i hardly ever fight with folks anymore
but
i grew up being told that i couldn't do stuff because i was a girl..but my brother could do whatever he wanted cause he was a boy
my blood boiled and i did whatever i thought to prove that as the bullshit backwater thinking that men spout in their totally re-dick-u-less thinking

big grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

i am sad that we seem to be going in reverse on the equality stuff...not just women/ men
but all the rest

ethnic..color..religion, etc..you know what i mean

until we can look at each other full in the eye and accept that differences are good and
opportunites for us to grow by knowing and accepting those who are not like us

untill we can get over that inferiority complex that we have to put someone else down to feel better

untill then we really are doomed

:( >:(

Hi Sky,

Quotei am 64+ years in this particular meat suit and i hardly ever fight with folks anymore
but
i grew up being told that i couldn't do stuff because i was a girl..but my brother could do whatever he wanted cause he was a boy
my blood boiled and i did whatever i thought to prove that as the bullpoop backwater thinking that men spout in their totally re-dick-u-less thinking

big grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

i am sad that we seem to be going in reverse on the equality stuff...not just women/ men
but all the rest

ethnic..color..religion, etc..you know what i mean

until we can look at each other full in the eye and accept that differences are good and
opportunites for us to grow by knowing and accepting those who are not like us

untill we can get over that inferiority complex that we have to put someone else down to feel better

untill then we really are doomed

I go along with your thoughts...

The reason why this situation exists... (Discrimination) is because sadly few are able to understand
the difference between the "meat suit" (human Primate) and the real entity i.e. the LIFE entity.

A few of us, like yourself sky, are able to see the difference between the LIFE entity, and the "flesh"
we are experiencing, but most have fallen asleep, and no longer know, or even recognise the LIFE entity.   :(

I guess, it is time for all of us, to  wake up !

Quote from: zorgon on July 19, 2013, 08:51:14 PM
True "We the people..." need to do like Egypt, Brazil and Turkey did... rise up as one force and just walk in and oust them.

As long as "We the people..." sit and whine and bitch about how bad things are NOTHING will change... "We the people..." have the power to change it but they would rather make excuses then actually DO something.

"We the people..." are lazy complacent and apathetic.  But they can sit in computer chairs and take on the world :P

Ah.  So You're getting the ball rolling?  Doing what?  Or...  Are You railing about how "lazy" and "complacent" We are sitting at the computer?

Point is, MANY want to do something but:

Many can't agree on what
Many can't see a solution at all
Many, MANY can't afford to leave Their jobs to go do something

So.  You are calling Us these labels, z.  Your solution and what are You doing to make it happen?

Quote from: ArMaP on July 20, 2013, 01:19:08 AM
Religion is not the problem, the problem is the human need of following something, be it religion, politics, sports or esoteric ideas, when mixed with other human need, the need of having an enemy, so they can have a target for their anger.

Huh?  A NEED for an ENEMY?  Geez.  That is LEARNED behavior.  That is behavior taught so that We can be manipulated into going to war so that the war profiteers can make $$$$$.

No One NEEDS an enemy.  *I* may have People out there very upset with My solution, but I would NOT call ANYONE My "enemy."

hi Matrix

very sadly , i don't think  anyone is waking up anymore..all the digital electronics
are like white noise..putting even more to sleep

sending hugs

Quote from: The Matrix Traveller on July 23, 2013, 12:06:15 AM

The reason why this situation exists... (Discrimination) is because sadly few are able to understand
the difference between the "meat suit" (human Primate) and the real entity i.e. the LIFE entity.

A few of us, like yourself sky, are able to see the difference between the LIFE entity, and the "flesh"
we are experiencing, but most have fallen asleep, and no longer know, or even recognise the LIFE entity.   :(

I guess, it is time for all of us, to  wake up !

I agree with you Matrix, 100%. I would add that sadly,
many people can not figure out we are all in the meat suit
together. Yes, they may appear different, yet they are all just different meat suits.

Sky

Quoteuntil we can look at each other full in the eye and accept that differences are good and opportunites for us to grow by knowing and accepting those who are not like us

This ain't ever gonna happen! Everyone wants to rule everyone else. To the death if need be. We are all caught in the middle.

Quote from: Amaterasu on July 23, 2013, 01:31:47 AM
Ah.  So You're getting the ball rolling?

Nope not me... I did my ball rolling many years ago. Legs are rotten so I will just sit back by my pool sipping a Planters Punch (or three :P ) and watch the sun set in the east...

QuoteDoing what?

Battling the tomato plants  seems they look like Fukushima Fallout hit em   :o

QuotePoint is, MANY want to do something but:

yes exactly  "but"

QuoteMany can't agree on what

Because most are sheep and need a good shepherd. Without a shepherd the sheep will do nothing.  It is alright to be a sheep :D  What we need is better shepherds

QuoteMany can't see a solution at all

Because for every ten thousand people attempting to wake up the people on the social media site, there are twenty thousand solutions.  Like it or not the reality is that people NEED a leader to get motivated...

I like my crown, but to old to take on the world :P Do you have ANY idea what that old adage "The Crown wears heavy on his brow!" REALLY means?  Its dang heavy and leaves a dent :P and try it in 117F temps in the sun :P

QuoteMany, MANY can't afford to leave Their jobs to go do something

Over 47% are UNEMPLOYED in the USA  Only 20% fought in the Revolution against Britain

QuoteSo.  You are calling Us these labels, z. 

Old saying  "If the shoe fits" :P

Me? Gonna sell more junk and get rich :P Then I can create some jobs like hire a pool boy :P

Quote from: sky otter on July 22, 2013, 10:47:56 PM
ethnic..color..religion, etc..you know what i mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MQrL_ABE0

(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/225/468538047_8decfbe077_b.jpg)

::)

Quote from: Amaterasu on July 23, 2013, 01:53:06 AM
Huh?  A NEED for an ENEMY?  Geez.  That is LEARNED behavior.

No, I have seen that behaviour in children, when, instead of an enemy, they look for a rival. That tendency turns into the search of an enemy when they become older.

QuoteNo One NEEDS an enemy.

They don't really need them, they have the tendency of needing someone that we can have as a target.

See what happened when I posted my opinion about some subjects. ;)

Quote*I* may have People out there very upset with My solution, but I would NOT call ANYONE My "enemy."

And you don't see the military and oil cartels as your enemy?

Z
on the two women.. check the dates of the stories.. and there are probably many more
i think that tells why one was pardoned .. timing.. info  online lets folks know about it
and cuts down on tourists


deuem.. perhaps you are correct and the majority will never accept others that are different than they think they are
but
i can't let the majority (or anyone) do my thinking for me..lol..like that's ever happened
so i will continue to do what i can  in the acceptance department

Louise Hay had a quote that has stuck with me ever since i read it
and it helps
We are all victims of victims and when we know better we do better.

and yeah some are very slow learners


so i will do kinda what Zorg is doing and just fight with my veggie plants
growing anything has turned into a real challenge and that's where my
energy will focus
i truly believe that if i - just me- can stay positive that it does make a difference
even in the face of the odds presented by the idiots running the aslyum
and that isn't a judgement so much as an observation

Quote from: zorgon on July 23, 2013, 10:37:32 AM
Nope not me... I did my ball rolling many years ago. Legs are rotten so I will just sit back by my pool sipping a Planters Punch (or three :P ) and watch the sun set in the east...

Ahhh.  Many MANY in Your position - but THEY are merely lazy and...

QuoteOver 47% are UNEMPLOYED in the USA  Only 20% fought in the Revolution against Britain

So...  47% can't afford ANYTHING!  What would You have Us DO?  I'm doing what *I* can - which is SPREAD IDEAS.  If any want My advice after that, I'll surely offer it.

Quote from: ArMaP on July 23, 2013, 02:00:23 PM
No, I have seen that behaviour in children, when, instead of an enemy, they look for a rival. That tendency turns into the search of an enemy when they become older.

Rivalry is encouraged by Our present system, as opposed to cooperation, because in the money jungle, One HAS to take on Others as rivals.  This approach is learned in the first few years.  I have seen very young children enjoy the company of the many of same age around Them without any sense of rivalry.

I liked Kindermusic when I took My daughter.  The kids were singing, COOPERATING.  There was no rivalry.  But then They learn rivalry elsewhere.

QuoteThey don't really need them, they have the tendency of needing someone that we can have as a target.

Again, this is learned behavior.  Being told, "Do better than everyOne else," or "Be the top dog!" These are things many children are taught.  Not, "Work with Others and do Your best."  When the competition for money is removed, cooperation and not competition will be much more highly regarded.  Poor behavior towards Others will be discouraged.

The "target" mentality is, as I said, promoted as the "elite" NEED that mentality in Us to make propagandizing all the easier.

QuoteSee what happened when I posted my opinion about some subjects. ;)

There is a difference between opinions differing and TARGETING.  No One is TARGETING YOU.  They are targeting Your information, Your opinion, with Their understanding.  BIG difference.

QuoteAnd you don't see the military and oil cartels as your enemy?

Nope.  Organizations, though comprised of People, are not People (contrary to legal BS), and I deal with Individuals.  No, I see Them as merely stuck in the scarcity paradigm; NOT "enemies."

Quote from: Amaterasu on July 23, 2013, 04:22:47 PM
Rivalry is encouraged by Our present system, as opposed to cooperation, because in the money jungle, One HAS to take on Others as rivals.  This approach is learned in the first few years.

I have seen that mostly in the US, in Portugal things are not as extreme as in the US.

QuoteI have seen very young children enjoy the company of the many of same age around Them without any sense of rivalry.

So have I, that doesn't mean that it cannot exist, as that rivalry is not constant, obviously.

QuoteI liked Kindermusic when I took My daughter.  The kids were singing, COOPERATING.  There was no rivalry.  But then They learn rivalry elsewhere.

As I said, I have seen that in small children, and I mean children only two or three years old. And yes, they also cooperate, it's possible to have both behaviours.

QuoteThere is a difference between opinions differing and TARGETING.  No One is TARGETING YOU.  They are targeting Your information, Your opinion, with Their understanding.  BIG difference.

That's possible, but that's not what I felt when I saw references to me instead of my opinions. :)

QuoteNope.  Organizations, though comprised of People, are not People (contrary to legal BS), and I deal with Individuals.  No, I see Them as merely stuck in the scarcity paradigm; NOT "enemies."

OK, got it. :)

Quote from: Amaterasu on July 23, 2013, 03:44:39 PM
Ahhh.  Many MANY in Your position - but THEY are merely lazy and...

:P  OR they don't see a need to pick up pitch forks yet and fight against Robocops, Swat tanks and killier drones :D

QuoteSo...  47% can't afford ANYTHING!  What would You have Us DO? 

I have given many real life and WORKABLE solutions to help people make money to survive... but some people are like a broken record that are like the proverbial horse led to water...  I have helped 3 people so far that took advice to heart and created online sales of junk and made so much money they pulled themselves out of debt, can pay their bills AND have extra available for taking the family on a vacation.  I myself make 4....  In January I didn't have the next month mortgage... today my bank account will carry me to next January and I can soon be able to buy wheels if things go well (sadly I only netted 1525.00 for my old truck  oh well... better than it rotting in the driveway)

I have helped at least 5 people so far set up their own Gofundme sites... I raised 670.00 on mine so far towards that car (maybe would have got more if I had a better story ;) ) (and thanks again for those that tossed a buck my way)

I have helped at least 2 people that I know with my information how to remove debt... and my wife makes 3 because she never really believed me how the system works until she just got full 40 hour a week work at a COLLECTION agency... she now not only knows the truth, but was able to provide me with even better inside info on how the system works and the strict laws the collection agencies operate under

All these things are INTERIM and IMMEDIATE solutions.. and like teaching a man to fish, can help long term no matter the situation

I cannot save the world... not sure the entire world deserves saving :P But I can make a difference in many peoples lives, like the MILLIONS of dollars my Medieval Guild helped raise for Mentally Handicapped children in Las Vegas...(yeah and we did get perks and recognition for it like the 60 free tickets to a $120.00 a ticket Vegas Show "Imagine" )  The last two tickest I gave a way minute beforethe show to a young couple first time in Vegas to get married.... literally off the farm... His question? "What's the catch?"  My reply "The catch is the show starts in 10 minutes"  his lady? "See? Told you you get free stuff in Vegas!" :D

QuoteI'm doing what *I* can - which is SPREAD IDEAS. 

Spreading ideas is fine... that is what we all do here at Pegasus... but me? I prefer to actually help people improve their situation... call me LAZY? LOL...  whatever turns your crank :P


Now just to show how using a little knowledge and pounding the pavement hitting yard sales etc.. can be very fruitful...

I picked up THIS item at a yard sale across the street. The fellows father had passed years ago and he took over the house from his mother. Now it turns out that the father was a Mason a collector and a miner in Montreal/Quebec....  The son's wife thinks masons are all evil.  So when they took the house they tossed out a LOT of stuff.  Me and a neighbor snagged a bunch of the bags (but we missed the first lot of 20)  It sickens me to think what he tossed away (because of what we did find in the others)

Will to keep it short he did sell a few pieces at a yard sale  THIS was one  cost me $10.oo

(http://landoflegendslv.com/00shoppes/01Flea_Market/04images/01new_listing/Carvings/Voyageur_001.jpg)

Now since I AM a history buff I did recognize what it was at the get go  It is a drinking cup that you hook into your belt similar to what we use in Medieval recreation...  This one would have been a Voyager cup, considering the fellows history.

So I figured COOL this should fetch a few bucks  looked it up on the net and found a few around the 200.00 to 300.00 range....

Then I contacted a few auction house (for my rocks manly but also a few things I picked up here and there at sales)  Well yesterday I shipped it to New York  Heritage Auctions where it will be featured in their House in New York  then move to Dalas Texax where it will be auctioned in November...

Expected price ?  $8,000.00    Now I never count chickens before they are in the pot, but that is the estimated value placed on it by the Auctioneer and is in the contract

So in this Scarcity Paradigm... a little knowledge and a little legwork can get you close to those that still seem to have insane money floating around... And New York, San Francisco and Dallas are full of em :D

You are in Georgia.... If I lived there I would be scouring the countryside looking for old civil war stuff...

But as I said... ya cannot make that horse drink... :)

I am now looking to get rid of my old stamp collection from when I was a kid... my son isn't interested and told me go ahead and sell it... will keep ya posted where that goes

As for rocks and fossils that can be dug out of the ground AT NO COST (just a little knowledge and a lot of work :P )... it seems I have one specimen of Fluorite that weighs about 6.5 pounds... Traded that in 1972  Its from China  Saw two from the same mine a lot smaller... listed for INSANE price at two auction houses

Waiting now for instructions on where to send it

There ARE solutions... these are solutions that can help people one on one... THAT is enough for me. I don't want to be an Emperor  A small Kingdom of a hundred or two?  Yeah that would (and has) worked :P

Big respect for that post, Zorgon.

Go actually put yourself out and HELP  other people instead of bemoaning your fate. There's a powerful Idea if ever I heard one...

I used to get depressed, about my inability to help myself. I discovered that it is actually easier to help other people solve their serious problems sometimes than it is to solve my own, relatively trivial problems. Admittedly, your own problems can often worsen  whilst you are busy helping others, and you don't often even get a thankyou, but if you do it just to "poke the devil in the eye" to use an easily understood metaphor, (or description of reality if you have such beliefs) one does get a sense of achievement and empowerment that, beats feeling miserable about your lot, any day.

But as you point out, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. Also "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" is a factual description of how life works. It matters not how good you are inside your mind, it matters what you DO in this world.

There are as you point out, a lot of bloviators on this and other similar forums...

What we need are more "doers", but doing takes courage. And THAT is a commodity that is in very short supply, I find.

Just my two pence worth.
Fruitbat

fruitbat

sometimes just taking care of yourself..so you aren't anyone else's project
is enough

Well, for all You bring up, z, the question was not "Gee, how can I make money to survive in this Hell The PTB have created for Us?" but "WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT TPTB???"  What is Your plan?

Anyway, back on topic.  Found this:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/155571633/Awful-Disclosures-of-Maria-Monk

It is a suppressed book from about the mid-1800's that was written by a nun who escaped from a nunnery in Montreal.  What She describes happened at that nunnery shocked even ME!

If You want an idea of what has gone on, and is likely STILL going on, in RC nunneries and other institutions, read this piece.

Nice find Amy ;)

Makes me wonder if that cross is really a transmitter  :o   ;D

Makes ME wonder how it is that We can be so duped...

Mother Teresa died, leaving MILLIONS She had accumulated from donations to help the poor.  The only "help" She ever really gave was wandering though hospitals where the poor were dying and producing photoops.

Yeah.  Some saint.

Quote from: Amaterasu on July 24, 2013, 05:43:17 PM
It is a suppressed book from about the mid-1800's that was written by a nun who escaped from a nunnery in Montreal.  What She describes happened at that nunnery shocked even ME!

It's a book, not suppressed by anyone, from 1836, supposedly written by a nun who escaped from a nunnery, but the book had many inconsistencies and investigations showed that the nunnery didn't correspond to what she described in the book.

It's not even known if she really wrote that book.

PS: The text is available in Project Gutenberg's site, here (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8095).

Here's a crazy idea.

Charge them.  Convict them if guilty.  Lock them up.

I seriously have to wonder why so much noise is made about this issue, and yet that never seems to happen.  Why are they immune from prosecution?  What is the source of said immunity?

QuoteWhy are they immune from prosecution?  What is the source of said immunity?

The pubic.

Quote from: ArMaP on July 25, 2013, 01:44:49 AM
It's a book, not suppressed by anyone, from 1836, supposedly written by a nun who escaped from a nunnery, but the book had many inconsistencies and investigations showed that the nunnery didn't correspond to what she described in the book.

It's not even known if she really wrote that book.

PS: The text is available in Project Gutenberg's site, here (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8095).

Why thank You, ArMaP.  I don't know how much of the doubt behind the work is obfuscation and how much is real.

Quote from: The Matrix Traveller on July 25, 2013, 02:23:48 AM
The pubic.

That would be seven billion goldes for you mate ;)

Quote from: Amaterasu on July 24, 2013, 09:15:53 PM
Makes ME wonder how it is that We can be so duped...

Very simple... Earth is Kindergarten for the soul... we are merely here to LEARN to deal with Hell before we can move on

It has been thus on this planet for FIVE CIVILIZATIONS

Souls like Jesus, Buddha, Dalai Lama CHOOSE to return here to help a few others find the true path

What are my plans about the PTB?

NONE  because even you remove one evil cabal, after a short time a new one will take its place. Happened in the French Revolution, happened in Persepolis

Since we are eternal beings, this short stay in this meat suit at this time and place is nothing more than the school of HARD KNOCKS... 

All that matters is how you live it and learn from it...  those that do not learn will be repeating a grade :D  Those like Hitler? well they will have a LOT of catching up to do

Sleeper told us this... Sleeper convinced John of this truth

Lemuria fell, Atlantis fell the Zhang Zhung empire fell (almost mo trace left) Persepolis fell, Rome fell and now America is falling

NOTHING will change because this is PURGATORY (effectively) and it is up to each individual to understand that and learn where the exit is

Oddly enough even CHRISTIANS know this to be true because they mouth the words (if not the actions). Ever hear THIS phrase?

"God Helps Those Who Help Themselves"

Seems those you call the PTB and the "Illuminat" have learned this lesson very well ;)

RC God is quite a Late comer to our History...

As evidenced in this thread using the same scientific proof that the Church use when it suit's them.

QuoteFor the first time on TV over 50.000 years of Australia's ancient past is brought to life through the worlds oldest oral stories, new archaeological discoveries, stunning art, cinematic CGI and never before seen archival film.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=4869.msg65762#msg65762

SO basically we have a 2000 year old story vs a 50000 year old story, One is denial and the other is sorta "WTF mate, this is what has been said for 50000 years"

One was nearly annihilated in modern times, and the other made a very profitable bank along with a child sex network. 

Simple huh ?

Simple as THIS :

QuoteOf more than 2000 complaints by clergy child-sex abuse victims in Victoria, only one has ever made it through the civil court process to a verdict, a researcher will tell a human rights conference on Friday. And that case failed.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/abuse-claims-never-even-get-to-court-20130725-2qnef.html#ixzz2a5nRREuy

The Spaceship the Clergy rode into town 2000 odd year's ago can take the Donkey route home back to their derelict world for all I care.

;D

Given the evidence, all I can say is that GOD as the RC use that term is a bonafide prick.
 

Quote from: zorgon on July 25, 2013, 09:31:18 PM

NONE  because even you remove one evil cabal, after a short time a new one will take its place. Happened in the French Revolution, happened in Persepolis

Wherever it happened in the past there was a controlling, psychopathic "elite" that matriculated to the top of the money/power heap.  So, yeah.  Always happens when there is a scarcity paradigm system accounting for meaningful energy expended.

Remove THAT and there is no way a small set of individuals can control the rest.

QuoteSince we are eternal beings, this short stay in this meat suit at this time and place is nothing more than the school of HARD KNOCKS... 

You make it sound as if We should LET the PTB have the planet while We suffer and die.  We're just learning Our lessons!  I don't buy it.

QuoteAll that matters is how you live it and learn from it...  those that do not learn will be repeating a grade :D  Those like Hitler? well they will have a LOT of catching up to do

Sleeper told us this... Sleeper convinced John of this truth

Again, I say this sounds defeatist.  Well, this is how the classroom is set up.  Just be good, and You'll get a pat on the head.  Heh.

Wonder what Those, the dying children who curl up in starvation while the buzzards await Their deaths will get a chance to do with Their lives.

Nope. Just can't buy it.

QuoteLemuria fell, Atlantis fell the Zhang Zhung empire fell (almost mo trace left) Persepolis fell, Rome fell and now America is falling

Yeah.  But I think in ALL cases it was presumed that meaningful energy expended had to be accounted for...which allows hierarchy and control, and the psychopaths to matriculate to the top.

QuoteNOTHING will change because this is PURGATORY (effectively) and it is up to each individual to understand that and learn where the exit is

Yeah.  Add free energy and robots.  Then We ALL can exit and the dying children will have a chance with Their lives.

QuoteOddly enough even CHRISTIANS know this to be true because they mouth the words (if not the actions). Ever hear THIS phrase?

"God Helps Those Who Help Themselves"

Seems those you call the PTB and the "Illuminat" have learned this lesson very well ;)

Yeah.  Tell that line to the starving child.

Quote from: Somamech on July 25, 2013, 09:21:27 PM
That would be seven billion goldes for you mate ;)

That is funny! I had exactly the same thought as I read your post, but decided not to put it forth!  ;)

Quote from: Somamech on July 25, 2013, 09:58:16 PM
Given the evidence, all I can say is that GOD as the RC use that term is a bonafide prick.

Impossible! There is no "bonafide" dictionary definition that I can find for your word "prick", in the sense of your use of it! No definition, no word!  :o

Quote from: petrus4 on July 25, 2013, 02:14:01 AM
Here's a crazy idea.

Charge them.  Convict them if guilty.  Lock them up.

I seriously have to wonder why so much noise is made about this issue, and yet that never seems to happen.  Why are they immune from prosecution?  What is the source of said immunity?

A scenario:
You go to a store, select an item and walk out without paying. They call the police, you get arrested, you go to jail and get butt-raped for 4 years.
Now reverse the situation. You go to the store, you select an item for $5, but you only have a $20 bill. The owner refuses to give you any change. You call the Police, they arrive, and inform you that it is a 'Civil' matter and that you will have to sue the owner.

Conclusion:
Laws are made for the rich to oppress the poor. Always have been, always will be. End of story!

Quote from: starwarp2000 on July 26, 2013, 02:49:11 PM

Laws are made for the rich to oppress the poor. Always have been,

True.

Quotealways will be.

Not if *I* can help it.  [smile]

QuoteEnd of story!

I think We've yet to see the ending.  [smile]