http://rt.com/usa/manning-sentence-years-jail-785/
Quote
A US military judge has sentenced Army Pfc. Bradley Manning to 35 years in prison. Manning faced up to 90 years behind bars, while prosecutors sought to put the whistleblower away for a minimum of six decades.
I could fill this entire thread with words of disgust.
Yeah, I'm pretty disgusted they didn't line him up and shoot him!
Rock 8)
thats where we disagree sarge.i think he should get the congressional medal of honor.if i was prez.he would be head of nsa.
i expect revenge on the net soon.either crashes or secrets to be released or both.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 21, 2013, 05:58:18 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty disgusted they didn't line him up and shoot him!
Rock 8)
That's a bit strong.
So Sarge do you differentiate between your disclosure choices?
It's ok to spill the beans about the moon but not about other truths?
Just askin ;)
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on August 21, 2013, 07:18:29 PM
That's a bit strong.
Not really.
He took an oath, he signed his name, he wore the uniform. The U.S. is bascially fighting a war. Soldiers are in harm's way. He said he was sorry for hurting the United States, so he knew he was breaking his oath and the law. He revealed thousands of war logs, detailing tactics and names.
I took an oath, I signed my name, I wore the uniform. I did not betray my country or fellow soldiers. It's been more than 10 years and my oath no longer applies. I don't know of any classified info that I have revealed. Only what anyone can see. Also in the public domain. There's no comparrison.
Rock. ;D
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 21, 2013, 07:42:46 PM
Not really.
He took an oath, he signed his name, he wore the uniform. The U.S. is bascially fighting a war. Soldiers are in harm's way. He said he was sorry for hurting the United States, so he knew he was breaking his oath and the law. He revealed thousands of war logs, detailing tactics and names.
I took an oath, I signed my name, I wore the uniform. I did not betray my country or fellow soldiers. It's been more than 10 years and my oath no longer applies. I don't know of any classified info that I have revealed. Only what anyone can see. Also in the public domain. There's no comparrison.
Rock. ;D
I see where you are coming from.
But I feel sorry for the lads on the ground, and I feel sorry for the people they are fighting and all the civilians getting killed in these sorry fecking wars.
So maybe manning was trying to get some truth out, so those young lads would know what was actually happening,and be able to make a choice before they ever joined up. Information gives choices.
as soon as i saw sarges post i knew his opinion.me and him discussed this awhile back.hi ya sarge.
he brings a good point but i have to ask.he swore to the constitution and saw we were in an illegal war.he notified the public which is his duty.it was the only option in this corrupt government.all other options would have brought reprisal.after three years of solitary i could make obama walk and quack like a duck.the boys mind is gone and his testimony is worthless.he is mentally dead now.nothing short of hero patriot status could ever bring that loyal americans heart back.
to him i say im very sorry our country betrayed you.
I actually see this as an incremental victory, to be honest. When you're designing something, you never expect the throughput of your initial prototype to be perfect. The idea is to get something that works at all, first; and from there, you fine tune and figure out how to apply incremental improvements, which will get performance up to where you want it.
Look at your own quote, Sinny. They initially thought they were going to be able to get him for 90 years, and the prosecution were going for at least 60. So the final sentence is just over a third of the initial estimate, and just over half of what the prosecution were aiming for. He's also being offered the reduction of a further 10% (3.5 years) for good behaviour.
In other words, this is not the point at which to be giving up. There has obviously been progress made, which we can see by the reductions in the initial projection which have already been achieved, but we need to continue to find additional legal options. Apparently the main goal being sought at the moment is a Presidential pardon, but I'm not sure how much likelihood there is of that eventuating.
I don't know much about the law, but the angle I would be looking at, is which particular crimes Manning exposed as a result of the information leaked. They should try and demonstrate that as a result of said crimes, Manning had real cause to release the information he did, as a means of bringing attention to it. Unfortunately, some of Manning's own recent statements have not helped his cause, in that regard; if he himself gives up, it will limit the degree to which anyone else can help him.
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on August 21, 2013, 07:29:41 PM
So Sarge do you differentiate between your disclosure choices?
It's ok to spill the beans about the moon but not about other truths?
Just askin ;)
Gold for that!
I take it 'Sarge' is a military mindwash.
Meant with as little offence as possible.
And as has been pointed out - it was/is an illegal war anyway.
Weapons of mass destruction were supposed to have been able to kill us all in 45 minutes... LMAFO!
Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2013, 08:33:14 PM
And as has been pointed out - it was/is an illegal war anyway.
Weapons of mass destruction were supposed to have been able to kill us all in 45 minutes... LMAFO!
Yea WMDs , the lying bastards. Scuse my French.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 21, 2013, 07:42:46 PM
I took an oath, I signed my name, I wore the uniform.
What did the oath say? Just curious. :)
This sentence is all part of the psyop. They WANT Us to be divided, angry, ready to revolt.
Divided, They conquer; revolting We feed an excuse to implement de facto martial law.
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on August 21, 2013, 08:06:01 PM
I see where you are coming from.
But I feel sorry for the lads on the ground, and I feel sorry for the people they are fighting and all the civilians getting killed in these sorry fecking wars.
So maybe manning was trying to get some truth out, so those young lads would know what was actually happening,and be able to make a choice before they ever joined up. Information gives choices.
I don't necessarly disagree with that but there are ways to do this without hurting the ones you supposedly are trying to protect.
@Robo..hey ;D"as soon as i saw sarges post i knew his opinion.me and him discussed this awhile back.hi ya sarge.
he brings a good point but i have to ask.he swore to the constitution and saw we were in an illegal war.he notified the public which is his duty.it was the only option in this corrupt government.all other options would have brought reprisal.after three years of solitary i could make obama walk and quack like a duck.the boys mind is gone and his testimony is worthless.he is mentally dead now.nothing short of hero patriot status could ever bring that loyal americans heart back.
to him i say im very sorry our country betrayed you."
Illegal war? Don't think so.
and I don't think our country betrayed him at all, visa versa I say.
Look, When Bush turned his sights on Saddam and Iraq after 9/11, I just thought it was wrong. Gallons and gallons of Iraqi blood/oil is not worth one drop of an American's blood. I had a son in the service at the time and I was worried to death about him. Bin Laden sure. Taliban sure. But Iraq? No way....
BUT, as soon as the first American put his boot on the ground everything changes.
Do I want the wars to be over? Hell Yeah. There's no better pacifist than a soldier. But you do your duty!
Sorry to rant...I respect everyone's opinion even some I disagree with.
As John says, "try and live your live without hate, envy or greed" and you'll be ok.Peace
Rock
PS. I'm not going to go tit-for-tat on this cause it serves no purpose.
but, 'Military Mindwash'? what the hell is that?
I believe in duty, honor, country.
My WORD means everything to me. My HONOR means everything to me. My NAME that I signed, 'AGREEING' means everything.
John Turner FountainPeace again
Rock...
Peace.
i tried showing my x navy brother the light and he couldnt see it either.no offence sarge .i respect your opinion and in the end you may be right.but my heart and common sense tells me otherwise.
being a marine corp dropout.i see both sides.the military is wrong but they cant be convinced.it is thorough brainwashing.kinda like asking a drug war cop to legalize drugs.
at the same time.sarge is right more often than he is wrong so i still listen to what he has to say.plus he has awesome skills.
I don't feel like I need to expand on term, if it does not resonate with you immediately, then my explanation would serve no purpose.
In closing..
I do not sanction murder.. Under any oath.
Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2013, 10:18:31 PM
In closing..
I do not sanction murder.. Under any oath.
Indeed, if there is murder, it is not what I have given any oath to. Once there is murder, ANY oath of MINE is null and void.
Just sayin'.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 21, 2013, 09:04:07 PM
PS. I'm not going to go tit-for-tat on this cause it serves no purpose.
but, 'Military Mindwash'? what the hell is that?
[/font]
When we speak of soldiers being brainwashed, the only thing that we mean, is that while we absolutely recognise the willingness of said soldiers to serve their governments as fully and honourably as they can; the unspeakable reality is that governments themselves are generally not willing to reciprocate to the soldiers in kind. Refusal on the part of the military to accept this reality; and the reality that they have ultimately risked their lives for the profits of psychopaths, is a major problem.
As a civilian, I have often had intense, passionate arguments with members of the American military online, about this very point. The soldier's willingness to serve, again, in and of itself is not the source of contention. The problem is the fact that war will remain with us, and will remain a constant, for so long as soldiers refuse to open their eyes and acknowledge the genuine nature of those they are giving everything to.
You might think you're doing it for your relatives; for your own communities, but again, the problem is that that is exactly what the politicians and the corporate contractors
want you to think. A war of aggression like Iraq, is not fought for the defense of a soldier's own family or community. It is fought exclusively for the perpetuation of psychopathic greed.
The other problem with glorification of the military, and I have also written about this before, is the fact that glorifying the troops causes a grave risk of normalising war. There are many within American society who wish to create the public perception that war is an inescapable element of human instinct; that there will always be another theatre, somewhere, and that ultimately, the reason why fighting occurs, and the politics behind it, are immaterial. The point is for war to become a way of life.
I have spent time on 4chan.org, in the political forum there. I have engaged rhetorically with fascists, who adamantly believe the words of Hitler, Paton, and Mussolini; that war can be the only effective crucible of human activity, and that supposedly, it is the only truly meaningful form of human activity. There are people in America and Europe who would die for the sake of that belief, and their numbers grow every day.
Nazism is coming back; and before the end of the next decade, I believe that we will see the recreation of concentration camps on American soil. Again, I have written about this before. Society will learn from this, and eventually, after it goes through what is to come, we will then have civilisation characterised by uninterrupted peace; because Man will have finally had his fill of the alternative.
We will not learn, before the Convulsion. There can be no appeal made; no successful argument given. Until the Convulsion occurs, the disciples of Gordon Gekko will drown out all opposition. The military and the fascists will continue to advocate war as a supposedly irremovable inevitability of human life, and the majority will believe them.
The only thing that will finally sate the human desire for blood, will be what is coming; and that is why I welcome it. Because after it, then, and only then, will we see the sunrise.
To men like John Hutchison, and to women like Amaterasu, I can only say that I am not like them. I am angry; I am ego-driven; I experience fear, and rage, and hate. I have alienated almost everyone I have ever known; not just online, but also off. My immediate biological family are the only people I interact with offline on a daily basis, aside from the staff of some local shops.
I am not like you. The only thing I can say in my own defense, however, is that while your way is not my own, I know that it is right, and that mine is wrong. You will survive to see what is coming after the current darkness; I very well may not.
I want other people to see it, though. I will not control my tongue, or my own depravity; it has been tried before, and I continue to fail. If anything redeems me, I hope it will be that while I am not always consistent in moving towards it, I want others to experience John's, and PWM's, and Amaterasu's future; even if I never do myself.
well you havent alienated me yet.lol.im sure im on the list .
Quote from: robomont on August 22, 2013, 12:23:21 AM
well you havent alienated me yet.lol.
I am glad I haven't, robo. :D
Quote from: petrus4 on August 21, 2013, 11:43:49 PM
When we speak of soldiers being brainwashed, the only thing that we mean, is that while we absolutely recognise the willingness of said soldiers to serve their governments as fully and honourably as they can; the unspeakable reality is that governments themselves are generally not willing to reciprocate to the soldiers in kind. Refusal on the part of the military to accept this reality; and the reality that they have ultimately risked their lives for the profits of psychopaths, is a major problem.
My boss was in the war in Africa, the war the then Portuguese colonies were fighting to get their independence. He was in Guinea Bissau, in the jungle wars. They had a doctor that once was treating some of the captured enemies and the captain told him to stop, that they were just going to send them to prison as they were, and the doctor gave him a lesson on how people are all the same, regardless of colour of skin or opinions, and treated the enemies as he had treated the other soldiers.
My boss, who had an education based on the regime indoctrination (very effective), in a state sponsored institution, was impressed by what the doctor said and, from that moment, he started to think about all those things that he thought were absolute truths.
He fought until he was sent against a tree trunk by the explosion of a grenade (he still has a slight limp, after almost 50 years) that left him almost dead, but a friend recognised him and saw that he was still alive and he was evacuated to the hospital and back to Europe.
He never abandoned his oath, but he never abandoned his convictions that all people should be treated with the same respect.
People are people, the fact that we are born in one side or the other of an imaginary line that separates two countries is meaningless, and that should be the first thing we think about.
ArMaP, can I hug You for that? I agree. We are Humanity, and all are deserving of respect as Humans.
I'll remember that as they, the beautiful humanity chops off your head after they've raped and stoned you.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 22, 2013, 02:32:47 AM
I'll remember that as they, the beautiful humanity chops off your head after they've raped and stoned you.
Sgt, are You ok? Sounding a tad defensive there.
Just sayin'.
thats that other side wisdom.muslims are the fastest growing religion in the world and it is theorized that half the country may be in fifty years.i think i read.
Sorry, just stating my opinion. Sometimes I feel people here see things as they should be or want them to be but not living in reality.
It's an ugly world out there and man is a dangerous animal. We have people out there with a medieval mentality with 21st century technology. A very dangerous combination.
I guess I really forget myself sometimes and learn to keep my big mouth shut.... ::)
I keep saying it.
Peace....
Rock... 8)
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 22, 2013, 02:32:47 AM
I'll remember that as they, the beautiful humanity chops off your head after they've raped and stoned you.
A question to ask, Sgt, is whether or not we really believe that there are that many enemies in the world; or whether, in reality, we actually
need enemies. If we've lived in a scenario for longer than we can remember, where there has always been someone else to fight or to view as a threat to us, then eventually it becomes very difficult to see reality in any other way.
It becomes an identity issue. Thomas Payne might have written that America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy; but in reality, that is exactly what America does, and it is what America has done for close to a century now. That is the entire reason why Superman as a character exists; he is an anthropomorphic personification of how Americans like to view themselves, at least as far as their relationship with the rest of the planet is concerned.
Quote from: robomont on August 22, 2013, 02:55:37 AM
thats that other side wisdom.muslims are the fastest growing religion in the world and it is theorized that half the country may be in fifty years.i think i read.
As a percentage of the total population in the UK, Islam is still in single digits. (About 8%)
In other words, they're smaller than the gay community. To the extent that Islamic growth is occurring at all, it is primarily through birth. You do occasionally hear about white converts, but it really doesn't happen as often as people on either side of the argument would like you to believe.
Islam doesn't really have anything to offer anyone. It doesn't have solutions to contemporary society's problems, despite the degree to which its' adherents like to claim otherwise. It is a barbaric, tyrannical, violent death cult, which only really continues to exist at all, because of the fact that apostasy is a capital crime.
So I'm not afraid of it at all.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 22, 2013, 02:32:47 AM
I'll remember that as they, the beautiful humanity chops off your head after they've raped and stoned you.
Are you talking about US soldiers? :)
Quote from: ArMaP on August 22, 2013, 09:16:44 AM
Are you talking about US soldiers? :)
I'm glad you think murder, rape and violence is funny ArMap. And I know that barb was aimed at me...
Thank you
well regardless of what you think of what he has done
in my opinion we are looking at a very delusional personality here
i say that not because bradley now wants to be chelsea
but because he thinks the gov should pay for the transformation
after the pres gives him a pardon
really?
???
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 22, 2013, 12:39:03 PM
I'm glad you think murder, rape and violence is funny ArMap.
They are not funny, why do you think that I think they are?
QuoteAnd I know that barb was aimed at me...
The post was aimed at you, I was not saying or implying that you did any of those things.
You spoke about some people in general and so did I. It sounds different when we are part of a generic group, doesn't it?
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/OLDIES_zps4fbdc3ef.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 22, 2013, 02:28:27 PM
I believe you want to make this personal, if that's the case FINE!
No, I have no reason for making this personal, I don't even know you, just what you write on this forum, and I never judge a person for what they write but by what they do and how they do it.
I am not like that.
4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
-- Lawrence Britt, The 14 Characteristics of Fascism (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html). (Emphasis mine)
We're seeing an example, in this thread, of something that I have been noticing on the Internet for probably the last 3-4 years, now.
We now live in a society where the military have grown to expect a greater degree of reverence and deference than anyone else; and when they do not get said deference, a loss of temper and control usually follows fairly quickly.
I would encourage anyone here to read the full list of Britt's characteristics of a fascist society at the above link, and observe for themselves, how many of said characteristics are now present within our own.
More than any other single element, I consider worship of the troops, to be the true bedrock of fascism. This is because such worship psychologically conditions even the civilian population, to become rigidly hierarchical and anti-egalitarian in its' own thinking, and democracy as an ideal, becomes replaced with the usual military expectation of an unelected, unquestionable Dear Leader, who has the ability to simply murder anyone who resists his will.
Sun Tzu wrote that an army must have a general; that a civilian king has no place leading it. In the same manner, however, and to an even greater degree, military structure and leadership is radically inappropriate for the civilian majority of any sane society.
I do not worship the military, personally; and I wish that some of the individuals who were former military themselves here, did not at times display such a transparent expectation of, and desire for, such worship. It is a shame that you are unable to recognise the fact that, if we in the civilian population do defer to you in such a manner, that the very act of our doing so, will paradoxically lead directly to the establishment of the type of society which, in WW2 at least, so many of you died trying to prevent.
Quote from: petrus4 on August 22, 2013, 10:38:19 PM
I would encourage anyone here to read the full list of Britt's characteristics of a fascist society at the above link, and observe for themselves, how many of said characteristics are now present within our own.
Funny that the point you posted,
Supremacy of the Military, was the only one that was not present in the Portuguese fascist regime that lasted for 48 years.