I do not know if many people are aware on PRC that in certain cases that some Retired elderly people end up having to pay for their care and may have to sell their home to pay towards it.
I suspect that some of the older members may be more aware of this or someone who who has had it happen within their own family or who knows of someone who it has happened to.
Or things may vary in different countries or areas..
But...
I recently had rather a surprise when someone who I know who is elderly had a stroke and has found out that they may have to pay for their future care... and may well have to sell their house to pay for it and will not be able to leave their property for their children's inheritance.
I assume that In certain or maybe most first world countries that this may be the case as people now live longer..
At one time people paid taxes or National Insurance when they work to pay for their future care...and It may have been this alone would have once covered their care costs if they had to go into hospital or later into a nursing home if they got ill....
What I am not sure about is if someone worked roughly for say 40 to 50 years...Peoples earnings vary ...but how much an individual may have paid in to the system..( if costs were compared to inflation)...
And How much they may be entitled to in later life when they may need it.. Each persons situation will vary..
But in this eg... someone who reached 90 years old and had not needed much previous care from the system..
Then all of a sudden when they need it most, are now being told they need to pay towards their own care and may have to sell their property to pay for it if they continue to live past any savings..and their pension will also be used to pay for it also..
I can see that people living longer creates problems for the costs involved if people need care over a set amount ..
but I am not sure if I agree that they should have to pay for their own care or sell their property to do so.
Yet anyone who only rents a property gets their care paid for !
My question would be how much should they be entitled to after paying into the healthcare system all their lives...
Is this a huge government scam on the people or is it a valid reason that people should pay for their own care...
Maybe in the USA things are different for Europe..
Initially I thought that this may have only applied in recent years since people have been living longer..
BUT on some research..I am led to believe that this has actually been the case since 1948 in some countries..
I believe that there may be ways to prevent this from happening for those in the know ! if you know how to go about it..
But there is a lot of people got caught out and ended up loosing their homes..or families loosing out on their inheritance..
which no doubt is rather somewhat of a major concern...
The trouble is that only the old have any money in the UK. Fair pay, pensions etc are becoming a thing of history for most. The young have very little.
Nice to see you back on PRC Pimander, I was not sure if you had left for some reason although I have not been online as much myself in the last few months..
Wow that was a quick reply within less than 4 mins....you must be one quick reader / thinker... :o
You make some fair points...but are these more within the last 10 years..or maybe even since the 1980s.. but in the UK as far as I know its been the case since 1948...which has surprised me..
Yes no doubt the present economic conditions do prevent the younger generations from paying into ponzi type NHS scheme to fund the system..
Its a tricky one ...
And IF its down to the NWO in destroying our economy / jobs etc...
It still tough to decide what to think !
In answer to the question in the title, of course, the elderly should be properly cared for as well as possible whether they can afford it or not. As a society we should be able to pay for it but if that is not possible then people with money will have to pay for their own care. It is economic necessity.
I think all care should be free and paid for by society but that kind of talk is considered dangerous by many. That kind of world is a threat to many powerful people.
astro
i don't think you're in the states..are you?
first off if he pays 5 bucks or any amount in a regular fasion they can't do anything because he is making an attempt
also i do not know international law but check into soething called revokable living trust
http://wills.about.com/od/overviewoftrusts/a/revvirrvtrs.htm
you can change it at any time but you cn also put whatever you own into it and you become the trustee..when you do this the home or other things can pass directly to whomsoever you choocse
without taxes, etc.
it is a really good tool..but as with anything you have to pay attention to the details
if your friend needs a lawyer (you don't to do this)
there are free services that will help..but you have to do your homework
i hope this helps a bit
good luck
I also agree that in a normal working economic system IF there is such a thing / OR if we are being presently denied such a thing by those in power) that care should be paid for..
Its very hard for those who have taken the chance to buy a property rather than rent...and who expected to provide an inheritance for their children....when those who did not chance buying a property get their care paid for by the state...
Admittedly its hard when you get those who were capable or able to earn more and afford to buy...but should they be penalized later in life !
Care to comment further why its such a danger/ threat to those people in power !
QuoteI think all care should be free and paid for by society but that kind of talk is considered dangerous by many. That kind of world is a threat to many powerful people.
The gov. collect taxes, then abandon their investment (You re taxation) in some cases.
No matter who you are, wealthy or poor, governments should honour their responsibilities,
regarding their Investment (You)
Some gov. do.... others don't.
Is your gov. honouring their responsibilities ?
Hi Sky,
No I am not in the USA..
Thanks for posting the link / info...I am not sure if it may be valid or not if outside USA..
Sorry I did not fully explain and maybe I need to rewrite the 1st post again.
Unfortunately the original house owner died and did not make a will..
The property was passed down to his wife....
and she later had a stroke before being able to make or complete any arrangement to protect the property for her family...
Now with the stroke she is unable to make valid decisions that the Doctors agree with to be able to do anything that may be possible to prevent her having to pay for her own care or prevent the property being sold if she lives past any savings that she may have...
If a Will would had been made, then I assume they could not have touched the property..and maybe she would not have to pay for her care....
She may get some entitlements towards the costs....and with her pension...this may pay half the costs of the nursing home..
BUT the cost of a Nursing home in the UK is around £550 to £1000 a WEEK ! which is incredibly expensive..
Just think of all the problems solved if We get rid of money. No One HAVING TO PAY. BEST care for ALL.
Ah well. For now, We struggle with these problems.
Personally Matrix,
I think that they are ripping their citizens off !
But I do not really no just how bad things may be ..or if the elderly population is really as extreme as they tell us...
or if its just another case of rip off government policies which I suspect
if what the like of what Alex Jones & others suggest is true !
QuoteThe gov. collect taxes, then abandon their investment (You re taxation) in some cases.
No matter who you are, wealthy or poor, governments should honour their responsibilities,
regarding their Investment (You)
Some gov. do.... others don't.
Is your gov. honouring their responsibilities ?
Hi Amy,
Yes that would be the ideal ...and I do think that what you are suggesting is possible....
Its just that those in present power do not want to make this happen as they want total control of us... but it may be quite possible to change things very quickly and you may well have the solution !
QuoteJust think of all the problems solved if We get rid of money. No One HAVING TO PAY. BEST care for ALL.
Ah well. For now, We struggle with these problems.
In Portugal, people that paid their social security for at least 20 years are entitled to have some expenses paid by the social security. I don't know if the bailout agreement with the EU, IMF and the ECB changed some of that (we got some reductions in how much the social security pays and some higher prices), but the most difficult part is to get a place in a nursing home, as there aren't that many.
Quote from: Amaterasu on August 26, 2013, 12:44:06 AM
Just think of all the problems solved if We get rid of money. No One HAVING TO PAY. BEST care for ALL.
Ah well. For now, We struggle with these problems.
Indeed.....
It won't be long now, to when an "Economic System" no longer exists.... :)
QuotePersonally Matrix,
I think that they are ripping their citizens off !
Your 100% correct there Astr0
Some gov. are... more than others... :(
Hi ArMap,
QuoteIn Portugal, people that paid their social security for at least 20 years are entitled to have
some expenses paid by the social security.
Same here in NZ. :)
Yes as far as I know ArMap.... the S.S can pay towards some things and in certain situations some patients with more serious issues can get whats known as "Continual health care funding"....There may well have been other S.S changes in relation to the E.U, IMF etc that has altered things...But I know little of this in any detail without doing some research..and what changes know may be made are done if it is to ones disadvantage unfortunately..
QuoteIn Portugal, people that paid their social security for at least 20 years are entitled to have some expenses paid by the social security. I don't know if the bailout agreement with the EU, IMF and the ECB changed some of that
I appreciate your comments Matrix, and that it may not just be me thinking this !
I would like to have someone in authority who also believes this that really questioned such a thing and attempted to prove to the public that Government has been deceiving the public on this and proved the statistics of what people pay in to what they get back on average..
I have to question what the "Members of Parliament or councilors"are doing and why they are not challenging it..
There has been something mentioned that they may change this in 2017 so that no house owner has to sell ones property to pay for ones care...
But anyone presently having to pay say £25,000 a year for their care now, who has a property worth say £100,000 and has to sell their home this year or put it on what they call "deputyship" (like a deferment) that the Gov will only make you sell a property to pay for ones care upon the persons death..
but by 2017 in 4 years... the value of the property will be paid up..
I am not sure if anything like this has occurred on and off in the past ,dependent upon economic or social conditions...
if it has , then they move the goal post as they choose...which they can easily do to maybe hide or disguise what their longer term aims are..as no doubt eventually they may be able to eventually get people to pay or have to sell their assets at some time in the families future..
QuoteYour 100% correct there Astr0
Some gov. are... more than others..
Here is Proof, regarding what you have said astr0, about shifting the goal posts... :(
http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2011/10/28/gordon-campbell-on-labour-plans-to-raise-the-retirement-age/
Quote from: Amaterasu on August 26, 2013, 12:44:06 AM
Just think of all the problems solved if We get rid of money. No One HAVING TO PAY. BEST care for ALL.
Ah well. For now, We struggle with these problems.
Over the many months here, I believe you have told us many times you have "gotten rid of your money" and do not work any more! How are you liking it?? Life without money?? :D :D :D
I don't have much money, but, I do manage to get along! So, I think I do like money, as I do still have "essentials" to buy, like food!!
yes here in the states .we have trust.if you know trouble is coming then sell the house for ten dollars to the children.but a trust will work most times too.the best way to get a trust if you cant afford a lawyer is go to the county seat and look up trust.find rich powerful people and get a copy of theirs.then replace all the info with yours and pay the clerk fee.the rich hire smart poweful lawyers to right up theirs so you know they are rock solid trust.thats what i did with my deed.i filed my own on my place.i just coppied my rich neighbors.lol
Yes Matrix,
That is a similar or a typical example of how they often go about doing changes, slowly / subtly....to get the public to gradually accept it..
Initially I was thinking that it was only the UK that were changing the retirement age....Now it seems Worldwide... :o
The Controllers determine what they want and their followers who work for them put it into reality...for the public to eventually accept...
Quote from: rdunk on August 26, 2013, 02:49:08 AM
Over the many months here, I believe you have told us many times you have "gotten rid of your money" and do not work any more! How are you liking it?? Life without money?? :D :D :D
WHAT?!? Um... No... I have said I LOST everything when I went homeless and CANNOT FIND a job. BIG difference. If I could order what I wanted on the web and have it delivered, I be loving it to pieces. Without money in a world that still accounts for energy, requiring Human energy input to survive...yeah. It's not the greatest, mkay.
QuoteI don't have much money, but, I do manage to get along! So, I think I do like money, as I do still have "essentials" to buy, like food!!
Uh, yeah, in the present system, yeah. When money is no longer NEEDED, You and I and everyOne else will go to the web and order what We want. No exchange, no money, no barter, no trade, no electronic funds, no banks, nada.
Thanks for refining the explanation to the link what Sky posted with ref to the "Trust"...
I am not sure if this may also apply outside the USA or not...or if it is valid in the UK if it may now have been too late due to the situations that may have occurred to this person since as its rather a complex case...
But Kudus to you Robo for what seems a clever move from you...
You must have a few good Rich connections who were willing to assist and advise....at least you have covered yourself and will have peace of mind...
I will inform the relatives to see if they may be able to do similar if its not too late ! :)
Quoteyes here in the states .we have trust.if you know trouble is coming then sell the house for ten dollars to the children.but a trust will work most times too.the best way to get a trust if you cant afford a lawyer is go to the county seat and look up trust.find rich powerful people and get a copy of theirs.then replace all the info with yours and pay the clerk fee.the rich hire smart poweful lawyers to right up theirs so you know they are rock solid trust.thats what i did with my deed.i filed my own on my place.i just coppied my rich neighbors.lol
boy that robo gets around.. good advice robo
astro i came back to explain but the post went somewhere else..so big thanks to robo
and good luck
Well, in the U.S.A., Medicare is the government health insurance program for the elderly- age 65 +. During working years there is a payroll tax that goes toward funding for that care. At the age of 65, people do become elegible for Medicare, with some exceptions, relative to other existing insurance, such as corporate and etc.
But, Medicare insurance coverage does not mean "free care". Under basic Medicare, there is coverage for hospital charges which is "Part A", medical charges which is "Part B", and prescription charges, which is "Part" D".
Two facts on Medicare - Medicare coverage for medical only pays 80% of "approved" charges, plus Both Part A and Part B have "deductables".
Parts A & B cost my wife and I $2,400.00 per year.
Part D costs my wife and I $960.00 9er year (and this coverage is pretty pathetic, because of much co-pay)
For the 20% remaining balance owed, after Medicare pays its 80% bills, WE must pay those balances. So, for that, we choose to buy what is readily available from private insurers - a Medicare Part B supplement, for which there are several plans with varying degrees of coverage. We pay for a private plan that pays 100% of the remaining 20%. plus it pays all deductibles.
Part B Supplement costs my wife and I $5,100.00 per year (goes up every year).
So, we do pay about $8,400 this year for our health insurance, and that is in addition to the monies paid in to Uncle Sam for many of my working years!!
Yes, with significant cost to us, it is nice to know that all Medicare approved hospital and medical bills are paid, with our supplement, at 100%!!
And relative to the "house" problem in the OP, in Texas a married couple's house (and other) is commuity property. So, even without a will, half of the homestead belongs to the surviving spouse anyway.
Hi Astro,
Just a few tips here, I dont have any links per say...
however, as I understand this conundrum, there are ways
to protect some of the assests of the person in need of care,
and perhaps even a residence.
The important aspects are 1) timeline of money transfer
and 2) monetary limits.
I would urge you to contact someone in your area for a
consultation, many planners offer free consults.
There is a way, I hear it on the radio on Sundays,
I wish i had a link, will try to find one.
astro
if you die without a will it is called intrestate..
do a search for intrestate in the uk for more info
below i found two for a start
in the state i live in if there is a surviving spouse and children the spouse is entitled to 1/3 and the children to 2/3 of the estate and you can file to control what happens
so perhaps you will be in luck and the children of this man can do something yet
hope this helps
http://www.theprobatedepartment.co.uk/rules-of-intestacy/
Rules of Intestacy - The Probate Department Ltd
www.theprobatedepartment.co.uk/rules-of-intestacy/?
The Rules of Intestacy apply where no valid Last Will and Testament is found, and they have some SHOCKING effects on many. How would they affect you?
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cto/customerguide/page14-1.htm
The rules of intestacy - HM Revenue & Customs
www.hmrc.gov.uk/cto/customerguide/page14-1.htm?
Customer guidance on what happens to an estate where the deceased did not make a will.
Quote from: astr0144 on August 26, 2013, 02:56:22 AM
Yes Matrix,
That is a similar or a typical example of how they often go about doing changes, slowly / subtly....to get the public to gradually accept it..
Initially I was thinking that it was only the UK that were changing the retirement age....Now it seems Worldwide... :o
The Controllers determine what they want and their followers who work for them put it into reality...for the public to eventually accept...
It is "World Gov." which delivers Policies to "secondary gov." in each country to introduce,
by whatever party is in power at the time.
So really different gov. (Secondary gov.) in different countries are really only "public relations officers"
usually elected by the citizens, or in some cases groups or families who are caretakers of those regions at the time.
This is why we see countries delivering the
same or similar policies right across the Earth.. :)
That was informative of the USA medicare system and how it works and your own situation Rdunk...It is good to have some idea and comparision...
Thank you for the comments and suggestions BTS...I will consider what you suggest...
And "Sky" I am sorry if your post was lost..I know how frustrating that can be if you may had wrote a long one only to see it not arrive on the thread...Its happened to me a few times...
Those other links could be very useful..Big Thank you !
Matrix....Thanks for explaining How the World / Governments work...
Its good to have that understanding of what really goes on and how its organized by them...
yea i forgot rdunks in texas.no i dont have rich friends that i know of.just caught on to their way of thinking.the problem with distribution of wealth is hard if you have to go through probate .kids usually fight over stupid stuff.plus all the lawyer and court fees.better to get a will.the county courts should have copies of solid ones of them too.sometimes clerks complain that its personal info even though its public record.i just tell them to black out that stuff.that puts there mind at ease.
ah from one of those links
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cto/customerguide/page14-1.htm
HMRC Inheritance Tax: Customer GuideYou have selected the following
•The estate is in England & Wales
•There is a surviving spouse or civil partner
•There are children or remoter issue of the deceased
If this is not correct return to page 14 of the Customer Guide
If this is correct, the estate passes as follows
•The surviving spouse or civil partner receives the chattels, a statutory legacy of £250,000 (£125,000 if the death was before 1 February 2009) and a life interest in half of the residue.
•The children receive the other half of the residue in equal shares. If any of the deceased's children have died leaving issue, then the issue will receive their parents' share per stirpes.
Note - If the estate is less than £250,000 (£125,000 if the death was before 1 February 2009), the deceased's surviving spouse or civil partner will receive the whole of the estate.
Back to Customer Guide
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/inheritancetax/index.htm
interesting post .so momma gets it all if under a set amount.
nice thread too.