Pegasus Research Consortium

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOpdRmKSt0g

Could Bitcoins be a device to trap criminals?

Just another money system - the psycopaths will always take over.

MONEY is GOOD

GOLD is BETTER

:)

::)

I can use a spade to dig a hole or to kill a person.  Is a spade useful or evil?

Quote from: zorgon on October 03, 2013, 10:18:53 PM
MONEY is GOOD

GOLD is BETTER

:)

::)

Gold, like paper, electronic placeholders, shells and beads, is just another form of money.  I begin to see why You struggle with shifting paradigm.  [smile]

Quote from: Pimander on October 03, 2013, 10:26:31 PM
I can use a spade to dig a hole or to kill a person.  Is a spade useful or evil?

Nothing inherently wrong with exchanging products of Our energy as token of that meaningful energy expended, per se.  But I have to ask, do spades elicit desire to the point One would incite war to gain more?  Do They promote the psychopathic in society?

Money itself is not the problem.  The LOVE of money (and the power it affords) IS.  The system has inherent flaws.  The LOVE of money is the root of all evil; remove the soil in which the root grows...and all We will have left to motivate Us is that We CARE.

Well its like this...



I am 62... have serious medical issues

I will not live long enough to see your world of Robots (fortunately :P ) Least not in this incarnation

In the MEANTIME I need a place to live and I need to eat...

I would prefer to eat steak and lobster rather than bread and water

I would prefer to live in my nice big house rather then in a tent city (albeit I like tents that are comfortable :P )

To do this in the reality of here and now, I need MONEY

So I have put my mind to materializing MONEY

And what happens? Ask my daughter... as we drove home 2 days ago I turned by mistake down the street before ours... and LO and BEHOLD  a $100.00 bill was lying on the street...

I kid you not... had I not turned there and had the wind not moved that folded bill to let me spot it I would not have it.

This was funny because a biker came by just after and we joked that we had found that Geico commercial :P

But it is more... the day before I was thinking now that I have a car I would like to go to War and maybe go as a Merchant this time again...

So I had looked it up and the fee is $100.00  Now that includes two admission passes ($75.00 each value)   So it was like a smack in the face :D Here was that entry fee just dropped in my lap

So I had to open a new business account and found that NEVADA know does Sole Proprietor business licences for FREE...only $30.00 for a sales tax permit (used to be min $480.00 deposit) and $20 for a 5 year name registration.

Funny thing  I paid cash for that name reg.  and when I got home my bank called me and wanted to set up a free business account, as the County had already sent them the papers :D


So..

UNTIL your MAGIC KINGDOM of free everything run by Robots materializes...

I have to consider the CURRENT reality and go back to my MAGIC KINGDOM where at least I wear the Crown and can control my situation :D

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 03, 2013, 10:46:55 PM
Money itself is not the problem.

There ya go :D

QuoteThe LOVE of money (and the power it affords) IS.  The system has inherent flaws.  The LOVE of money is the root of all evil; remove the soil in which the root grows...and all We will have left to motivate Us is that We CARE.

The flaw in your logic is you IGNORE the middle road

Money used as it was MEANT TO BE USED... to achieve a goal, to live in comfort without stress, to allow you the freedom to use your time constuctively

NOT in the pursuit of money, but using money to make your life and those around you better.

You want to see a shift? Well that will require LOTS of MONEY to get the balling rolling. "Build it and they will come" is a truth..... you want to change a system, you first have to use the tools of that system to build the new system.

Otherwise you are merely blowing smoke

You cannot change the planet over night. Start with a small community to show it CAN be done, then spread the word. The majority of the people in the world today (Muslim, African overlords, Koreans and Chinese) are not even interested in listening to you.

So in the meantime... I am going to materialize my own situation. Put my money where my mouth is so to speak... and show by example that you CAN survive in the current sandbox  and sit by and watch the fools go by :D


And that spade? Yeah it can dig up gold and kill the guy coming to steal it :P Everything is relative :D

Quotefrom: zorgon on Today at 02:52:39 PM
Well its like this...
I am 62... have serious medical issues

I will not live long enough to see your world of Robots (fortunately :P ) Least not in this incarnation

First off, z, it is NOT a "world of robots."  It is a world of free Humans that use the tool of robots to fill in necessary work no One WANTS to do.  Or not enough People.  If You LOVE to stand on the assembly line, accommodations I am sure could be made:  robots would move over or Your position will NOT be filled...until You choose to quit.

Second, as I have said before, release free energy with a will to free Humanity from all robotic work and 5 to 10 years.

QuoteIn the MEANTIME I need a place to live and I need to eat...

I would prefer to eat steak and lobster rather than bread and water

I would prefer to live in my nice big house rather then in a tent city (albeit I like tents that are comfortable :P )

To do this in the reality of here and now, I need MONEY

So I have put my mind to materializing MONEY

And what happens? Ask my daughter... as we drove home 2 days ago I turned by mistake down the street before ours... and LO and BEHOLD  a $100.00 bill was lying on the street...

I kid you not... had I not turned there and had the wind not moved that folded bill to let me spot it I would not have it.

This was funny because a biker came by just after and we joked that we had found that Geico commercial :P

But it is more... the day before I was thinking now that I have a car I would like to go to War and maybe go as a Merchant this time again...

So I had looked it up and the fee is $100.00  Now that includes two admission passes ($75.00 each value)   So it was like a smack in the face :D Here was that entry fee just dropped in my lap

So I had to open a new business account and found that NEVADA know does Sole Proprietor business licences for FREE...only $30.00 for a sales tax permit (used to be min $480.00 deposit) and $20 for a 5 year name registration.

Funny thing  I paid cash for that name reg.  and when I got home my bank called me and wanted to set up a free business account, as the County had already sent them the papers :D


So..

UNTIL your MAGIC KINGDOM of free everything run by Robots materializes...

I have to consider the CURRENT reality and go back to my MAGIC KINGDOM where at least I wear the Crown and can control my situation :D

Humans run it stigmergically.  And sure, get money now.  No issues with that.  Just that having People spread awareness rather than mock the ideas will surely speed the point where We ALL can consider them.  Just saying.

I am in the same boat as Zorgon; 56 years old with medical issues... was basically unemployed from july of 2009 until april of 2011 with a mortgage, no insurance, and blood clots... I survived, still have my house, have medical now and a job that pays the bills and keeps the larder stocked...because I refused to give up, refused to have it any other way, did not worry myself sick, stayed determined that I would not lose anything; and I didn't...

you have a vision of a utopia that is admirable,Amy; but you seem to overlook human nature; i would turn the robots off and have something to do to keep both my hands and mind occupied; most people would just sit on their steadily getting fatter ass watching tv and talking about someone else...


money is only evil when you let it control you thru greed and lust for the power it can give...

use it as a tool to fulfill your needs and your bliss is easier to attain...


seeker

in some ways money is amys dream its just when greed gets in the way that money is a burden.we are the robots.

the good part is to kill the dollar as we know it.robots would be the way.but then greedy people would just buy and control more bots.then instead of wars of money.we would have wars of bots.fighting over resources.that seems to be the future.robots will be like cellphones .slow at first then advancing very fast as more folks can afford them until finally amazon is offering them for cost and obama offers them through medicaid.
maybe the direction we should progress the tech is through electric wheelchair companies.they are in the right market position for this advancement.plus its fits in nicely with wall-E.

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 03, 2013, 11:18:13 PM
If You LOVE to stand on the assembly line, accommodations I am sure could be made:  robots would move over or Your position will NOT be filled...until You choose to quit.

I don't thinks so...

IF I stayed on that assembly line I would be too slow compared to the Bots and would hold up that line :D 

QuoteSecond, as I have said before, release free energy with a will to free Humanity from all robotic work and 5 to 10 years.

But that has been my point. Its not as simple as 'releasing' free energy. SOMEONE has to build the devices and the infrastructure that can make USE of this free energy. It would be nice BUT you cannot just drop a piece of Dark Matter into your gas tank and run your car :D

It will cost BILLIONS to create the free energy devices and convert the existing systems so everything can use them.  That initial cost and outlay of money is what is the limiting factor... because SOMEONE with the resources and the inclination will have to pony up and put his pocket book to work.

Solar power is a good example. Solar power is free... even devices to collect it are cheap... but that inverter and the batteries to store it and the installer to install it still are expensive. Once that is covered (the initial installation charge) from then on you have free energy...

A hydro electric dam uses free energy... Just like the old water wheel grain mills did, gravity alone feeds the turbines producing tons of free electricity. The same river can have 30 or more power plants creating free energy using the same water.  But its the infrastructure that is the block.

And to remove the initial cost infrastructure... a LOT of GOLD has to start the ball rolling... other wise it is just an idea on paper

QuoteJust that having People spread awareness rather than mock the ideas will surely speed the point where We ALL can consider them.  Just saying.

No one is mocking... just pointing out reality checks :D Awareness is good, but at some point to get from AWARENESS to IMPLIMINTATION Someone has to fork over LOTS OF MONEY to grease those wheels

Quote from: robomont on October 04, 2013, 03:54:05 AM
the good part is to kill the dollar as we know it.robots would be the way.but then greedy people would just buy and control more bots.then instead of wars of money.we would have wars of bots.fighting over resources.that seems to be the future.robots will be like cellphones .slow at first then advancing very fast as more folks can afford them until finally amazon is offering them for cost and Obama offers them through medicaid.

I do not yet know if Obama care is the Devil's Spawn or it can help me. I will let it unfold and see if I can go see a doctor soon for free.  I was always the go to guy never needed help... but I am no longer going to look a gift horse in the mouth.  Jury is out on that one :P

Re: THE ROBOTS

A long time ago.... in a Galaxy not that far away....

There are those who believe... that life here began out there, far across the Universe... with tribes of humans... who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians... or the Toltecs... or the Mayans... that they may have been the architects of the Great Pyramids... or the lost civilizations of Lemuria... or Atlantis...

Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man... who even now fight to survive—somewhere far, far away amongst the stars.

In a distant star system, the Twelve Colonies Of Mankind were reaching the end of a thousand-year war with the Cylons, warrior robots created by a reptilian race which expired long ago, presumably destroyed by their own creations. Humanity was ultimately defeated in a sneak attack on their homeworlds by the Cylons, carried out with the help of a human traitor...

This story is truer than you can believe. I can (and will) document this soon (most likely on the website). In any case the TV version did their homework :D  And today we have THIS

(http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/mt/flightglobalweb/blogs//the-dewline/x45c.jpg)

Now ask me again why I will NOT support a Robot society :D

Quote from: the seeker on October 04, 2013, 03:33:43 AM
I am in the same boat as Zorgon; 56 years old with medical issues... was basically unemployed from july of 2009 until april of 2011 with a mortgage, no insurance, and blood clots... I survived, still have my house, have medical now and a job that pays the bills and keeps the larder stocked...because I refused to give up, refused to have it any other way, did not worry myself sick, stayed determined that I would not lose anything; and I didn't...

Very glad You didn't!  I too was so determined and well, didn't work out as planned.

Quoteyou have a vision of a utopia that is admirable,Amy;

No.  NOT "utopia."  Just a hell of a lot better a way to run things than NOW.

Quotebut you seem to overlook human nature; i would turn the robots off and have something to do to keep both my hands and mind occupied; most people would just sit on their steadily getting fatter ass watching tv and talking about someone else...

I again will reiterate, Wall-E is Disney propaganda.  We have couch potatoes now because They can't AFFORD to do what They WANT to do.  I challenge You to ask everyOne You encounter for a month what They would do if They could retire right now with an unlimited bank account.

I would love to discover how many would say, "Meh.  Sit around and watch TV all day."  How many would plan to do something that helps Those around Them or the planet as a whole.  See how many would go to school, become artists, produce plays, and on and on.  Would love to see Your data when You're done.

Quotemoney is only evil when you let it control you thru greed and lust for the power it can give...

Not quite.  It also PROMOTES those kinds.  And there is no way around that without getting just as intrusive as the IRS and the NSA and mandating things like "You can only have X value..."

Rather, since We now have the tools for the first time in history to do it, Let's just bleeding do it.  It really is not THAT tough to do.

Quoteuse it as a tool to fulfill your needs and your bliss is easier to attain...


seeker

Y'know, if everyOne had equal shot in this system of succeeding, and if everyOne could succeed, I might see Your point, but I can tell You straight on that an old lady is NOT going to be hired when there is a bevy of 20- and 30-somethings vying for every position.

As Dad used to say, "There's no such thing as fair."  So I never expected things to be fair.

When I see a practical path to solving most of the issues on this planet while freeing every Human Being from robotic work who WANTS to be free, I struggle to understand the lack of enthusiasm on the part of Others to share the ideas and discuss them.  I'm not saying "We gotta do this!"  I'm saying by My calculations Humanity would be FAR better off than NOW if We DID implement these ideas.

But it's not up to ME.  It's up to US.

Quote from: robomont on October 04, 2013, 03:54:05 AM
in some ways money is amys dream its just when greed gets in the way that money is a burden.we are the robots.

the good part is to kill the dollar as we know it.robots would be the way.but then greedy people would just buy and control more bots.then instead of wars of money.we would have wars of bots.fighting over resources.that seems to be the future.robots will be like cellphones .slow at first then advancing very fast as more folks can afford them until finally amazon is offering them for cost and obama offers them through medicaid.
maybe the direction we should progress the tech is through electric wheelchair companies.they are in the right market position for this advancement.plus its fits in nicely with wall-E.

Except, robo, You don't offer WHY We would do that, nor do You take into consideration that in abundance We ALL could be both armed to the teeth and shielded beyond breech.  We would presume that of Others, too. And lastly, You fail to provide MOTIVE.  And then there are issues of "buying" the robots.  People may HAVE the robots We choose to provide.

Quote from: zorgon on October 04, 2013, 04:06:53 AM
I don't thinks so...

IF I stayed on that assembly line I would be too slow compared to the Bots and would hold up that line :D 

Yeah, but YOU would never decide that was the BEST way to spend Your time, either.  VERY few would, I imagine.

QuoteBut that has been my point. Its not as simple as 'releasing' free energy. SOMEONE has to build the devices and the infrastructure that can make USE of this free energy. It would be nice BUT you cannot just drop a piece of Dark Matter into your gas tank and run your car :D

Yeah, so.  Spend taxes doing it.  Coordinate on a central site.  Git 'er done.

QuoteIt will cost BILLIONS to create the free energy devices and convert the existing systems so everything can use them.  That initial cost and outlay of money is what is the limiting factor... because SOMEONE with the resources and the inclination will have to pony up and put his pocket book to work.

Hahaha.  It won't MATTER if We spend quadrillions, googlezillions, whatever.  Financial debt goes away in the end.

QuoteSolar power is a good example. Solar power is free... even devices to collect it are cheap... but that inverter and the batteries to store it and the installer to install it still are expensive. Once that is covered (the initial installation charge) from then on you have free energy...

The "government" should provide energy free.  We have a goal here and getting energy freely to all of Us is part of the process.

QuoteA hydro electric dam uses free energy... Just like the old water wheel grain mills did, gravity alone feeds the turbines producing tons of free electricity. The same river can have 30 or more power plants creating free energy using the same water.  But its the infrastructure that is the block.

No.  It's the fear of spending.  It's money.  If Our goal is to eliminate the need for money, spend money to get there.  It's a free ride in the end.  Heck, if We're concerned, take money away from military.  They have vastly more than They need.

QuoteAnd to remove the initial cost infrastructure... a LOT of GOLD has to start the ball rolling... other wise it is just an idea on paper

Yeah, one form of money or another, whatever works.  Citizens' Tax Spending Initiatives.

QuoteNo one is mocking... just pointing out reality checks :D Awareness is good, but at some point to get from AWARENESS to IMPLIMINTATION Someone has to fork over LOTS OF MONEY to grease those wheels

When You use words like "magically" and "miraculously" in reference to what You think I'm saying here, yeah, z.  That's kinda mocking.  I covered the rest of this above.  [smile]

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 04, 2013, 06:11:37 AM
I again will reiterate, Wall-E is Disney propaganda.  We have couch potatoes now because They can't AFFORD to do what They WANT to do.  I challenge You to ask everyOne You encounter for a month what They would do if They could retire right now with an unlimited bank account.

I know many people that are quite well off, never had a tough life. And they choose to sit around and do nothing. I am certain there are studies around that would verify this. I will see if I can find some

But you will not find many couch potatoes in countries where people still have to work. Only in countries where leisure time is high will you find them. Hollywood is full of rich and once famous people that are full time couch potatoes and generally useless eaters :P

I think this is the main sticking point in your acessment of the human race. Most, if given everything free would soon find no value in doing anything and just take the opium.

Even Ferrets, having a free home, free food and water... prefer to sleep in hammocks all day. They don't have to forage for food, fight off enemies (though they do chase the cat and dogs for sport) or build a burrow. Ferrets are professional couch potatoes...

(https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/994013_211609285682289_2135400515_n.jpg)

And they are teaching the cats :D

(https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/1383395_553081374763146_768340079_n.jpg)

QuoteI would love to discover how many would say, "Meh.  Sit around and watch TV all day."  How many would plan to do something that helps Those around Them or the planet as a whole.  See how many would go to school, become artists, produce plays, and on and on.  Would love to see Your data when You're done.

Well we could ask :D  though most would probably lie :D


(http://cutearoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Ferret.jpg)

Quote<blockquote> Z:
It will cost BILLIONS to create the free energy devices and convert the existing systems so everything can use them.  That initial cost and outlay of money is what is the limiting factor... because SOMEONE with the resources and the inclination will have to pony up and put his pocket book to work.</blockquote>   
Amy:
Hahaha.  It won't MATTER if We spend quadrillions, googlezillions, whatever.  Financial debt goes away in the end.

Z; Every time they put up a new boil water nuke plant they spend billions, So I see no difference in the money spent, they just want the waste for bigger bommmmbs
A; If we spend quadrillion on a project then give it away how does debt go away in the end. I would think the banks would want to get paid back for the investment.

The topic is both right and wrong, How to get from spending to free is a task that needs a fantastic plan. It effects the entire planet. One that everyone could live with and prosper in some manner. The oil people will just make more expensive plastic, the car companies will make electric cars at twice the current price and transportation people will rise the cost to make up for the profit they add to fuel. Greed will step in and balance it out again. Would we need Martial Law world wide to control the change over. Hold prices and reloading prices to make up for lost proffits? It is currently a pay or die world.
A; have you ever developed a full blown plan to achieve this paradise your talking about? i would like to read it if you have.   Deuem

I won't lie, sign me up for that hammock! Deuem would be a number 1 Couch potato. But then there would be no one to make my new couch! Even a floor potato would be better than working and I would be blasting the AC 24/7 with the windows open. My Electric meter would be spinning so fast it would fall of the wall. I would just take the fridge door right off the hinges. Heck no need for a door. I just use the door to save electricity. Maybe I would add an AC unit to the Kitchen so we could cook in our winter clothes.

What I am saying is that yes, if everything we free it would change my life for the better but mostly for the worst! All I really care about is that we stop polluting our planet to death. I don't care what the electric bill is. It is only a small portion of the entire picture. the effects of using it far out weigh the costs of buying it.

Deuem

Just ask yourself this...

How many people today spend ALL their free time on the internet when they could be out living life, creating something, taking a class, going scuba diving... actually meeting people face to face :P

But no... they will prefer to sit in their caves and live the reality of the internet... and the rich kids are the worst offenders :P

There you have your answer :D

Quote from: deuem on October 04, 2013, 11:29:02 AM
Z; Every time they put up a new boil water nuke plant they spend billions, So I see no difference in the money spent, they just want the waste for bigger bommmmbs

This would indicate one thing...

IF the current PTB had more efficient energy producing devices, would they not use them and corner the market?  While I know that the Military has certain advances, I suspect that despite what conspiracy nuts say or believe... there really is no viable solution yet

Of course no one will consider that as being possible, because they are convinced that THEY are hiding the tech.

But one thing I know to be true about the Military is that when they find something new... they will not hesitate to use it, even before tests are complete

::)

Actually you guys have hit on a discovery that I am actively making right now. what happens when you get boundless free time.

I have discovered that when I control my day, sometimes very little gets done.

However, I am not yet sure if that is pure LMF (lack of moral fibre) or if it's my age and physiology.

I know one thing, I was never trained to be self supporting and self motivating, and it's a big adjustment to make.

I think if Amy's abundance paradigm came real, we'd have an AWFUL time for a while, with people making an awful mess, until their heads caught up. Rather like now, but with criminal minds freed of an interest in assets turning their attentions to your souls.

Like I said, rather like now...

Fb.

Quote from: Fruitbat on October 04, 2013, 02:42:07 PM
I have discovered that when I control my day, sometimes very little gets done.

I recently became my own boss and, funnily enough, I'm a lot less productive than I used to be.  On the other hand I'm enjoying it at the moment.  If I need more money I will have to work harder.

No doubt I will want or need more money as the birth of my first child approaches so that may be all it takes to remedy the situation.  It shows that I'm not just motivated by money though.  Perhaps I'm one of those types who genuinely feels that their time is more valuable than any amount of money?

Quote from: zorgon on October 04, 2013, 11:57:17 AM
IF the current PTB had more efficient energy producing devices, would they not use them and corner the market?  While I know that the Military has certain advances, I suspect that despite what conspiracy nuts say or believe... there really is no viable solution .

I don't necessarily agree with your logic, Zorgon (and not just because I'm a conspiracy nut - maybe I'm something else really :P ).  If TPTB agree with you that too much free time and goods would be a disaster for humanity/civilisation then surely they would conceal or delay rolling out a viable energy solution. 

As I have hinted before, another problem with your argument is that if the energy solution makes it easy to have limitless energy/power then it is VERY VERY dangerous.  If said technology gets into the wrong hands, that limitless energy/power is the power to destroy worlds.  Think about it.  How can that be released into the public domain safely?  I'll answer that - it can't.

If anyone can think of a way to release that type of power then let me know and I'll do everything in my power to pass the information to the relevant people.


ETA:  That does not mean that novel propulsion and energy technologies won't be useful for making civilisation more abundant.  In fact it is a monumentally important task.  The above just means that the ultimate limitless free energy solution is too dangerous and even in the hands of the military could be a terrible thing.

Hate me if you like guys, but if  you think about it there is some sense in what I am saying.

i think instead of looking for more sources of energy we should focus on effficientcy.minor improvements create major savings.that is the current path of success.where advancements seem to come everyday.
once i got into the air conditioning business it started to really sink in.
the numbers started making since.a little cheap insulation goes a long way.thats money in ones pocket and power that someone else can use if needed.we see it more often now with cars.fuel injection saves alot of money.electric cars are very efficient as motor only turns when needed instead of like car engines that run.even at stop lights.releasing lots of heat into the atmosphere.

QuoteBut it is more... the day before I was thinking now that I have a car I would like to go to War and maybe go as a Merchant this time again...

Apart from the obvious reference's to the gold mining day's and who? had sustainable income back then... I see the same occuring now in regards to musicians who made the switch to creating tool's to make music with in software rather than making music.   ;D

Quote from: zorgon on October 04, 2013, 11:20:56 AM
I know many people that are quite well off, never had a tough life. And they choose to sit around and do nothing. I am certain there are studies around that would verify this. I will see if I can find some

But you will not find many couch potatoes in countries where people still have to work. Only in countries where leisure time is high will you find them. Hollywood is full of rich and once famous people that are full time couch potatoes and generally useless eaters :P

Really?  They sit at home all the time and watch TV?  Really?  Struggling to buy that there are many that do that.  They may have and attend fetes, go sailing, paint or maybe garden.  They may spend some time at home watching TV, but not day in and day out.  The day in and day out Ones are the Ones who cannot afford to do what They want.

QuoteI think this is the main sticking point in your acessment of the human race. Most, if given everything free would soon find no value in doing anything and just take the opium.

And *I* contend that if We teach Our children to find and develop Their gift(s), We will have VASTLY more useful production in society, driven by CARING and not profit motive.

QuoteEven Ferrets, having a free home, free food and water... prefer to sleep in hammocks all day. They don't have to forage for food, fight off enemies (though they do chase the cat and dogs for sport) or build a burrow. Ferrets are professional couch potatoes...

(https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/994013_211609285682289_2135400515_n.jpg)

And they are teaching the cats :D

See.  They ARE contributing - as they CHOOSE to.  Teaching the cats.

Quote(https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/1383395_553081374763146_768340079_n.jpg)

I told You in the other thread that the quote was unfinished.

"I'll do it later - I'm watching My stories...to take My mind off going spelunking which is what I really want to do but I don't have the money or equipment, and doing laundry is NOT what I want to do."

QuoteWell we could ask :D  though most would probably lie :D

I guess, though I don't know why They would.

Quote from: deuem on October 04, 2013, 11:29:02 AM
A; If we spend quadrillion on a project then give it away how does debt go away in the end. I would think the banks would want to get paid back for the investment.

When money is no longer needed - because a penny buys whatever You want and then some and the effort of collecting it is more that it is truly worth...  All financial fictions are removed and banks will be no more.

QuoteThe topic is both right and wrong, How to get from spending to free is a task that needs a fantastic plan. It effects the entire planet. One that everyone could live with and prosper in some manner. The oil people will just make more expensive plastic, the car companies will make electric cars at twice the current price and transportation people will rise the cost to make up for the profit they add to fuel. Greed will step in and balance it out again. Would we need Martial Law world wide to control the change over. Hold prices and reloading prices to make up for lost proffits? It is currently a pay or die world.
A; have you ever developed a full blown plan to achieve this paradise your talking about? i would like to read it if you have.   Deuem

It's not a "paradise."  Just a hell of a lot better than what We're doing now.

Yes:

1.  Spread awareness to the tipping point that free energy=no need for money

2.  Allow either toadies who see that They will live as richly - or more so - to release free energy tech, or private inventors to have breakthroughs as more and more work on it.

3.  Spend taxes to replace or retrofit with free energy, using BEST design, not planned obsolescence, in business, industry, agriculture, transportation and homes.

4.  Spend taxes to replace workers who don't WANT to do the job They have with either Those who would LOVE it or robots.

5.  Put together a central site for reporting and solving problems as described here:  http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2103.0

6.  Spend taxes supporting Those who need it from losing jobs in the transition

7.  Promote the Betterment Ethic (and who of caring heart would eschew the Betterment Ethic?)

8.  Teach Our children to find Their gifts and develop Them.

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 04, 2013, 08:32:32 PM
"I'll do it later - I'm watching My stories...to take My mind off going spelunking which is what I really want to do but I don't have the money or equipment, and doing laundry is NOT what I want to do."

I have been in many caves and mine shafts...  just a hard hat, hiking boots and a lantern. Doesn't cost much for those and some rope :P

QuoteI guess, though I don't know why They would.

Because people, by nature, will not tell you the truth. The internet is filled with people that are living proof of this... they can be whatever they want on the internet, never needing to go outside to face reality.

If we had a Holodeck like they do on Star Trek... people would be addicted to their fantasies and NEVER come out

This in not my opinion... it is easily documented today in the world we live in

Quote from: Fruitbat on October 04, 2013, 02:42:07 PM
I have discovered that when I control my day, sometimes very little gets done.
However, I am not yet sure if that is pure LMF (lack of moral fibre) or if it's my age and physiology.

A bit of both...

When you work for yourself you are not on a punch clock... so you can work or not work as you choose.  Yes you will become less productive... until you say to yourself "I need to get off this dang computer and pay the bills"

Advantage is you can catch up because you have no set hours. Disadvantage is if you are a procrastinator you will soon be broke :D

One chap I knew had a solution... He had his office in the garage... fixed up like a hull office. In the US a garage is attached to the house with a door into the house.  But what he did to get his mind set was leave the house via the front door... like he was going off to work... then go around to the side door of the garage and go to work.

That was what he needed to motivate himself that he is now at work

Many times lately when I have been sorting and photographing stuff for sale, I would sit in the living room to take the pain off the legs.  I would then turn on the TV to break the monotony.  But when I do that... I find that many times I will be distracted by the program and get less done.

QuoteI know one thing, I was never trained to be self supporting and self motivating, and it's a big adjustment to make.

This is why 5% of the people in the world own 95% of everything... they are self motivated :D

QuoteI think if Amy's abundance paradigm came real, we'd have an AWFUL time for a while, with people making an awful mess, until their heads caught up. Rather like now, but with criminal minds freed of an interest in assets turning their attentions to your souls.

Star Trek attempts to handle this scenario  A society with no money, free do do anything you want...  But all we see is a handful of explorers... Even on missions the Captain, Doctor, Science Officer and Engineer and other top officers are the only ones on the mission :P  What are the other billions of people doing?

::)

Look at our kids today... too much leisure time... how long before boredom sets in?

Back 20 years ago people had less leisure time and even less income, yet they were out doing stuff. Even if it was just hiking in the forest or camping out at a lake.  Today they are all sitting in front of the Robots pretending to be alive :D

Quote from: Somamech on October 04, 2013, 06:26:22 PM
I see the same occuring now in regards to musicians who made the switch to creating tool's to make music with in software rather than making music.   ;D

Quite true...  another Robot/Machine taking over creativity.

My daughter ran into this at Art College.  She is going into gaming, the design part ($50,000 a year start)

What happened there was kids were failing classes. They were mad... why?  Because they assumed that they could skate by because they were good at computer graphics and were shocked to learn that they had to have REAL art skills to make the grade

Quote from: zorgon on October 04, 2013, 09:52:18 PM
I have been in many caves and mine shafts...  just a hard hat, hiking boots and a lantern. Doesn't cost much for those and some rope :P

That's it, z.  Sidestep the point.  [grin]

If One lives in the city and needs a vehicle, gas, time away from slavery, and has none of that...it's tough to go spelunking when One has the desire.

QuoteBecause people, by nature, will not tell you the truth. The internet is filled with people that are living proof of this... they can be whatever they want on the internet, never needing to go outside to face reality.

OR... They learned to be distrustful and hide things, just in case.  I know most People tend to be OVERLY honest, overall.

QuoteIf we had a Holodeck like they do on Star Trek... people would be addicted to their fantasies and NEVER come out

And that's a problem because...?

QuoteThis in not my opinion... it is easily documented today in the world we live in

Yeah?  Where are all People free to do what They love to do and it turns out to be watching TV all day?

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 04, 2013, 10:13:20 PM
If One lives in the city and needs a vehicle, gas, time away from slavery, and has none of that...it's tough to go spelunking when One has the desire.

Then one joins a CLUB and gets a ride and loaner beginner equipment. It is unwise to attempt it on your own anyway

There are MANY people who would love to go to a week long Medieval War but cannot afford it.  But they can call someone who IS going and trade labor for a free ride.  This is done all the time

The POINT is that where there is a WILL there is a WAY... and no money needed

As to Cities... if you live in New York you can explore the huge caverns beneath the city :D Entrance is via one of the old subway stations :D

QuoteOR... They learned to be distrustful and hide things, just in case.  I know most People tend to be OVERLY honest, overall.

You don't get out much huh?   ::)  Yet everyday we see posts by millions proving that people lie and pass on false info all the time and think nothing of it, and that is not counting the government, the military, the lawyers, the news media....

Humans exaggerate, they tell stories, they LIE... it is the Nature of the Beast :D

QuoteYeah?  Where are all People free to do what They love to do and it turns out to be watching TV all day?

American Idol... Soap Operas... Football games...  Just view statistics of how many viewers they have  for starters :D

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 04, 2013, 10:13:20 PM
That's it, z.  Sidestep the point.  [grin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHkT3RJJBCA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxpWpgcUp1U

Quote from: zorgon on October 04, 2013, 10:42:08 PM
Then one joins a CLUB ...

The POINT is that where there is a WILL there is a WAY... and no money needed

Yeah, I should have focused on the point.  [sigh]  Maybe the dream is to get the education needed to go on archaeological digs but You're inner city educated, malnourished, and can't afford Jr. college, let alone a university, nor get a scholarship because You were too busy trying to survive to really focus on what little crap They were teaching, and so did not get really good grades.

So...  You're there, and You are pumping energy into offering People if They want fries with that which affords You barely enough to keep a room You rent.  You can afford TV, but a Harvard education?  Yeah...

If merely having the will was enough in this system, there would be MANY successes and few failures.

QuoteYou don't get out much huh?   ::)  Yet everyday we see posts by millions proving that people lie and pass on false info all the time and think nothing of it, and that is not counting the government, the military, the lawyers, the news media....

Can You supply an example?

QuoteHumans exaggerate, they tell stories, they LIE... it is the Nature of the Beast :D

I don't.  I might suppose there are Others like Me...  Percentage unknown, but in general pop, I would guess that on issues that matter, few but the psychopaths at the top of the power heap do that.  Maybe They do when recounting the size of the fish They caught.

QuoteAmerican Idol... Soap Operas... Football games...  Just view statistics of how many viewers they have  for starters :D

Then view poverty statistics and demographic statistics and I bet You find a correlation in there somewhere.

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 05, 2013, 12:02:31 AM
If merely having the will was enough in this system, there would be MANY successes and few failures.

Can You supply an example?

This fellow.... his will created THIS :D

(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q71/10614_516755318409227_1269910575_n.jpg)

Sure... granted will alone is not enough. but you don't know till you try :D

College?  Money or not ... not everyone has the ability to become a Brain Surgeon

Where there is a WILL there is a WAY....

(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q72/s720x720/531975_516755068409252_684713189_n.jpg)


Somewhere in Romania... a Motor Home :D

(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/q71/s720x720/1374303_713099815372226_608103241_n.jpg)

The DOERS can usually surprise the heck out of you :D


Meanwhile... to answer your question...

Couch potatoes: 70 million Americans are 'inactive

QuoteBad news on the fitness front: Nearly 70 million Americans are classified as inactive, according to the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association's (SGMA) 2012 Sports, Fitness & Recreational Activities report. The number of inactive couch potatoes has risen every year since 2007, warns SGMA.

Have another Donut (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/04/have-another-donut-70-millions-americans-inactive/1#.Uk_aWtLUkrU)

Sedentary lifestyle

QuoteA sedentary lifestyle is a type of lifestyle with no or irregular physical activity. A person who lives a sedentary lifestyle may colloquially be known as a couch potato. It is commonly found in both the developed and developing world. Sedentary activities include sitting, reading, watching television, playing video games, and computer use for much of the day with little or no vigorous physical exercise. A sedentary lifestyle can contribute to many preventable causes of death. Screen time is the amount of time a person spends watching a screen such as a television, computer monitor, or mobile device. Excessive screen time is linked to negative health consequences

In the 2008 United States American National Health Interview Survey (NHIS) 36% of adults were considered inactive. 59% of adult respondents never participated in vigorous physical activity lasting more than 10 minutes per week.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedentary_lifestyle


Lack of Exercise as Deadly as Smoking, Study Finds

QuoteWhen it comes to being couch potatoes, Americans aren't alone. Physical inactivity has become a global pandemic, say researchers in a series of related papers  published in the journal Lancet. According to one of the reports, lack of exercise causes as many as 1 in 10 premature deaths around the world each year — roughly as many as smoking.

QuoteOne key reason is that we rely too much on modern conveniences like cars to get around. In the U.S., for example, fewer than 4% of people walk to work and fewer than 2% bike to commute; compare that to about 20% of people who walk to work in China, Germany and Sweden, and the more than 20% who bike their commutes in China, Denmark and the Netherlands, WebMD reports. Add to that the inordinate time most of us spend sitting — at the office, in front of the computer or watching TV.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/18/lack-of-exercise-as-deadly-as-smoking-study-finds/

So when things get free and robots do everything, people will even more become COUCH POTATOS

::)

Lazy Americans...

Here is a good one...

This person has a well paid, easy government job with all the perks of medical coverage and vacation time....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs_9s31Je7Y

:o

::)

Quote from: zorgon on October 05, 2013, 09:53:52 AM

This fellow.... his will created THIS :D

(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q71/10614_516755318409227_1269910575_n.jpg)

z, You really should answer in context.  [smile]  *I* wanted an example of "everyday we see posts by millions proving that people lie and pass on false info all the time and think nothing of it."

I don't think He is that example.  Also, I'm not sure what You THOUGHT You were answering here, but I KNOW People are clever and industrious.

QuoteSure... granted will alone is not enough. but you don't know till you try :D

Oh, I have been trying - 75,000+ applications in the last 9 years.  Hundreds of interviews.  I see the cute young things that get hired.

QuoteCollege?  Money or not ... not everyone has the ability to become a Brain Surgeon

And that is pointed out because...? 

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 05, 2013, 10:33:55 PM
Oh, I have been trying - 75,000+ applications in the last 9 years.  Hundreds of interviews.  I see the cute young things that get hired.

Yes cute young things are more in demand in some fields :P

But why you no tried the internet selling plan?

You have free time... you have computer skills...  you live in an area where you can find lots of stuff to sell... and you don't have bills as high as mine are currently.

So yeah it's tough to get a job, but dang it people on Ebay and Etsy have money to spend. Why not liberate them of it?

Quote from: zorgon on October 05, 2013, 10:30:09 AM
Couch potatoes: 70 million Americans are 'inactive

How many live in inner cities and are at or below the poverty line?  Most, I would say.

Quote from: zorgon on October 05, 2013, 10:30:09 AM
Couch potatoes: 70 million Americans are 'inactive

QuoteHow many live in inner cities and are at or below the poverty line?  Most, I would say.

Well the problem with your assessment is that the 70 million in this study all own TV's and couches :P  Because THAT study was listing the couch potatoes that HAVE a home , a TV and cable service :D

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 05, 2013, 10:42:52 PM
How many live in inner cities and are at or below the poverty line?  Most, I would say.

I  live below that official "poverty line"  yet I still have my house, got a decent vehicle and have a full pantry

Oh and its time to harvest those YUMMY Moroccan dates in that office complex :D  I'll send ya some

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWE19I7IEAAtrBo.jpg:large)

I forgot what I was trying to say or think about when I started the thread but that was an entertaining ideological joust.

I like both your arguments in different situations.  I don't agree that if everyone had the wealth to do what they liked that they would watch TV and eat pizzas.  On the other hand, I'm not sure whether all the work would get done either unless we set the machines up carefully first.

Ideally, I'd like to have a good standard of living, more opportunities and have to work a lot less hard.  I also don't like ANYBODY owning things we all need like energy supply, water supply, land (apart from our homes obviously), roads, rail etc.  If everyone needs something then it should be shared, and shared fairly.  That includes food.

Quote from: zorgon on October 05, 2013, 10:39:12 PM
Yes cute young things are more in demand in some fields :P

But why you no tried the internet selling plan?

You have free time... you have computer skills...  you live in an area where you can find lots of stuff to sell... and you don't have bills as high as mine are currently.

So yeah it's tough to get a job, but dang it people on Ebay and Etsy have money to spend. Why not liberate them of it?

I live in an area with lots of stuff to sell...  Um...  Like what?  There are trees, roads, & other People's property for miles around.  Should I sell poison ivy?  Lots of that here.  Um...  Dirt.  It's not Mine though.  It's the landlord's.  Heh.  So is the poison ivy.

Quote from: Pimander on October 08, 2013, 10:49:46 PM
I forgot what I was trying to say or think about when I started the thread but that was an entertaining ideological joust.

I like both your arguments in different situations.  I don't agree that if everyone had the wealth to do what they liked that they would watch TV and eat pizzas.  On the other hand, I'm not sure whether all the work would get done either unless we set the machines up carefully first.

Ideally, I'd like to have a good standard of living, more opportunities and have to work a lot less hard.  I also don't like ANYBODY owning things we all need like energy supply, water supply, land (apart from our homes obviously), roads, rail etc.  If everyone needs something then it should be shared, and shared fairly.  That includes food.

Sounds like the abundance paradigm.  Except "fairly" is not a necessary concept, as there is more than enough for 10 times the Humans now on this planet.  We are all heirs of the earth.

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 09, 2013, 01:23:08 AM
Sounds like the abundance paradigm.  Except "fairly" is not a necessary concept, as there is more than enough for 10 times the Humans now on this planet.  We are all heirs of the earth.

Except the resources are not accessible to most people yet.  Potentially there is more than enough for us all (even if it isn't 10 times as much).  Before we get to abundance, or even if we never get there, there is no excuse for everything being controlled in the interests of the few.

Unfair distribution of the resources (including education) we need to make ourselves money/food/resources is what divides people.  The other two things that divide people are Nationalism and religion.

Quote from: Pimander on October 09, 2013, 01:31:43 AM
Except the resources are not accessible to most people yet.  Potentially there is more than enough for us all (even if it isn't 10 times as much).  Before we get to abundance, or even if we never get there, there is no excuse for everything being controlled in the interests of the few.

Unfair distribution of the resources (including education) we need to make ourselves money/food/resources is what divides people.  The other two things that divide people are Nationalism and religion.

All true.  I'm saying if We aim for abundance it will be that We all have plenty.

don't mean to interfer with the debate but just thought i'ld toss this in  ;D




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/06/bitcoin-crashes_n_4400392.html

So, Bitcoin Is Crashing
The Huffington Post  |  By Mark Gongloff
Posted: 12/06/2013 3:15 pm EST  |  Updated: 12/06/2013 3:58 pm EST


Well, it had to happen some time: Bitcoin is crashing.

The price of the crypto-currency tumbled nearly 21 percent on Friday to $877.46 on trading site Mt. Gox and has fallen more than 29 percent since closing at a record high of $1,237.96 on Wednesday, according to Bitcoin data tracker BitcoinCharts.com. (Story continues after chart, courtesy of bitcoin.clarkmoody.com.)

X

Much of Bitcoin's meteoric rise in the past few months has been due to speculative trading in China, the Wall Street Journal pointed out earlier this week (subscription only).

China's central bank shot a gigantic hole in that trade on Thursday by telling Chinese banks they couldn't use the untraceable digital currency, calling it "not a currency in the real meaning of the word."

That doesn't mean Chinese investors can't keep speculating in Bitcoin, but it is a blow to the credibility of the four-year-old currency. Created by an unknown hacker or hackers known as Satoshi Nakamoto, Bitcoin has the potential to be a long-lasting digital alternative to national currencies like the U.S. dollar and the Chinese yuan. But it has also become favored for illicit uses such as money laundering and drug-dealing, raising concerns about whether policy makers will ever embrace it fully.

Regardless of Bitcoin's long-term potential, there is little doubt its price has jumped too far too quickly: It traded for less than $100 just six months ago.

An official for Bitcoin exchange BTC China, where a growing percentage of Bitcoin trading takes place these days, told the WSJ that most Chinese investors are just hoping prices will keep rising long enough for them to sell and turn a profit. The People's Bank of China, in its statement on Thursday, reminded traders that might not be the soundest approach to investment, according to the New York Times:

"The price can be easily controlled by speculators, creating severe turbulence and huge risks," the PBOC reportedly said. "Ordinary investors who blindly follow the crowd can easily suffer major losses."

As far as i know.the fbi havent been able to hack it yet.
Virgin airlines last week said it would accept them so its still up in the air.lol.

Govt cant stop what it cant control so bitcoin should be strong.imho

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 09, 2013, 01:19:19 AM
I live in an area with lots of stuff to sell...  Um...  Like what?  There are trees, roads, & other People's property for miles around.  Should I sell poison ivy?  Lots of that here.  Um...  Dirt.  It's not Mine though.  It's the landlord's.  Heh.  So is the poison ivy.

o, that is not the idea. Do you have flea markets or backyard sales. Anything that is specific to the area that out sides can't get ahold of except through you. Peolple turn junk into treasure all the time. Make something else out of it and recycle stuff. Old tree can become wall hangings with pretty poem lettering. just have it cut up into flats and finish it off. The tree was dead no on wants it.  Do your artistic work like I do and have it printed and framed. It will sel, it is original. do numbered releases. Hey I sell even sell deuem here from time to time. Your work should be easier to sell.People love arrangements of dried flowers and weeds. The tall grass stuff stuck in a vase. All cheap to get if not free. There are a million thing to do to pick up cash on the side.

Pressed poision ivy inbetween two panes of glass sitting over a back ground photo would sell. Ivy is cool looking.. So yea,  Just wear gloves and dont rub your face or butt.

Thrift store and garage sales for valuable books.they are everywhere.i find something valuable about every fifth try.i found a book worth about four thousand one time at a salvation army.i had a friend that found an original mary shelly frankinstine.the gold is out there.

My problem is understanding ebay.i think ebay stores are brilliant.if i was good at inputting correctly .then i could make a killing.maybe we could create a high speed simple app.

Just saw this.

How can I go to thrift stores and garage sales with no money or transportation?

I suppose We have flea markets...  What would I do with one?  Steal things?  Sell dirt?  How do I get there?

I have no tools - so selling old trees (if I can find any) means just offering them as is.  "Here.  A tree stump!  You'll have to dig it out when the property owner isn't looking...  Just $50!"  (No money to pay to have trees I don't own cut into slabs...)

Zero money to pick up vases, dried flowers, whatnot.... 

My hands are not up to cutting and carving, even if I had proper tools.

If Thor can print out My work, I guess I can sell prints.  No money to frame them... 

So...the "gold" may be "out there," but I have NOTHING to buy it with.

Quote from: Amaterasu on January 01, 2014, 11:16:11 PM
Just saw this.

::)

QuoteHow can I go to thrift stores and garage sales with no money or transportation?

I see homeless bums on the street here all the time... they collect pop cans and other stuff in shopping carts and walk to the scrap yard. I am not saying YOU should do this... what I am saying is that at the lowest end of the food chain these homeless people are making some money for effort

To show HOW MUCH...   I too save the pop cans... wife brings them home daily from work. I save all scrap metal I find when I drive by it it the trash...

So my last trip to the scrap yard netted 185.00 tax free cash for a small load of scrap iron (chairs, bed frames etc) a small box of stripped copper wire ($3.00ish a lb) and a few backs of pop cans (45cents a lb)

I don't NEED to do this anymore but since WWII my family learned the value of recycling everything.

All our yard scrap and food scrap (meat goes to the dogs) goes to compost. Makes lots of soil in just a few weeks... I got some FREE Canna roots from a neighbor  about a dozen. Stuck em in the ground... next year I had hundreds. Picked up some fee pots from the nursery (then bought some really cheap used ones on ebay) Put the Canna roots in them and within three weeks I had 30 plus potted plants at about 2-3 foot tall. An 18" plant sells at Lowes for 9.99 for a single shoot. Mine had 3-4 at least. Put an ad for FREE into Craislist and people come to my door to pick them up... tax free cash


If poison ivy grows so do other plants  Small potted pine tree sells for 8.00 :P

(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/39/396d0ead-46de-4047-a213-904256076904_1000.jpg)

These are suggestions and yeah require energy

A bicycle with a basket is transportation to look at yard sales and thrift stores... and good exercise

Where there is a WILL there is a way

QuoteI suppose We have flea markets... 

Gotta look to see em

QuoteWhat would I do with one?

Sell something, buy something, barter something, see if anyone needs help, offer a service, look around at what sells and how much it sells for

QuoteSteal things?

That is just being STUPID   >:(

QuoteSell dirt? 

Good dirt sells for big bucks. A wet climate with lots of yard waste can produce TONS of dirt a year (top quality top soil) and people will pick it up. If I can make top soil here in the dry Vegas desert with minimal effort, imagine what you can do out there in the wet lands :D  Basically you rake it into a pile and let it rot. Toss in all kitchen scraps, egg shell, coffee grounds and WOOD ASHES from fire pits etc

2-3 weeks tops for a good pile of dirt :D

QuoteHow do I get there?

Bicycle

QuoteI have no tools - so selling old trees (if I can find any) means just offering them as is.

The old trees was for Thor who DOES have the tools. Cut pallets of firewood old logs and tree tables do sell. Might take time to find the right buyers but firewood sells at super markets for 6.99 for about 6-8 logs

(http://www.lcfp.com/images/Birchwood.jpg)

QuoteZero money to pick up vases, dried flowers, whatnot.... 

Zero money... yet you manage to eat and stay alive... quite a feat... I see Mexican illegals out here that manage to make money with nothing and manage to get all sorts of government help

I know for a fact that the Mormons will help out money wise and all they ask in return is you listen to their sermons. You are not obligated to join, just ask you to listen. A friend of mine took that hand for 4 months as they paid his rent. He was Pagan...  (He did however return it when he got a job)

There are THOUSANDS of ways to find a starting point.

QuoteMy hands are not up to cutting and carving, even if I had proper tools.

Yet you have a computer toll and your hands can spend HOURS typing. There are many online jobs available... serious ones where you work at home that are not scams

QuoteIf Thor can print out My work, I guess I can sell prints.  No money to frame them... 

Ever heard of sites like DEVIANT ART?  Kids create online art and some sell it. Many websites online that sell digital copies only. I bought a CD once, paid $49.99 because it had a copy of a very old hard to find Rosicrucian document. It was on a CD containing a collection of old public domain files, including the entire works of Aliester Crowley "Equinox"  That was a bonus... I was happy to pay for the one file

I once paid 50.00 for a list of phone numbers... I could have found these numbers online... maybe... IF I knew what and where to look... but that 50.00 saved me the time and pointed me to the right place. There were 24 numbers on that paper...

people pay 200.00 to get a copy of patents  Yes you can get them online free but many people don't have time to do the search and paying someone else research time is VERY COMMON in the world and well paid

Doctors seek people at home to do medical records... on and on the list goes

All you need is a computer, time  and ability to search

QuoteSo...the "gold" may be "out there," but I have NOTHING to buy it with.

Most of the gold I have ever found I dug up myself or ripped out of old computers. Have Thor drop off old scrap computers and electronic stuff and loan ya a screwdriver and wire cutter and you can get gold (and copper aluminum and steel)  You would be amazed at how much gold and copper is in a computer (or cell phone)


Stop whining and do something :P

::)

Quote from: zorgon on January 02, 2014, 01:11:48 AM
::)

I see homeless bums on the street here all the time... they collect pop cans and other stuff in shopping carts and walk to the scrap yard. I am not saying YOU should do this... what I am saying is that at the lowest end of the food chain these homeless people are making some money for effort

To show HOW MUCH...   I too save the pop cans... wife brings them home daily from work. I save all scrap metal I find when I drive by it it the trash...

So my last trip to the scrap yard netted 185.00 tax free cash for a small load of scrap iron (chairs, bed frames etc) a small box of stripped copper wire ($3.00ish a lb) and a few backs of pop cans (45cents a lb)

I don't NEED to do this anymore but since WWII my family learned the value of recycling everything.

All our yard scrap and food scrap (meat goes to the dogs) goes to compost. Makes lots of soil in just a few weeks... I got some FREE Canna roots from a neighbor  about a dozen. Stuck em in the ground... next year I had hundreds. Picked up some fee pots from the nursery (then bought some really cheap used ones on ebay) Put the Canna roots in them and within three weeks I had 30 plus potted plants at about 2-3 foot tall. An 18" plant sells at Lowes for 9.99 for a single shoot. Mine had 3-4 at least. Put an ad for FREE into Craislist and people come to my door to pick them up... tax free cash


If poison ivy grows so do other plants  Small potted pine tree sells for 8.00 :P

(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/39/396d0ead-46de-4047-a213-904256076904_1000.jpg)

These are suggestions and yeah require energy

A bicycle with a basket is transportation to look at yard sales and thrift stores... and good exercise

Where there is a WILL there is a way

Gotta look to see em

Sell something, buy something, barter something, see if anyone needs help, offer a service, look around at what sells and how much it sells for

That is just being STUPID   >:(

Good dirt sells for big bucks. A wet climate with lots of yard waste can produce TONS of dirt a year (top quality top soil) and people will pick it up. If I can make top soil here in the dry Vegas desert with minimal effort, imagine what you can do out there in the wet lands :D  Basically you rake it into a pile and let it rot. Toss in all kitchen scraps, egg shell, coffee grounds and WOOD ASHES from fire pits etc

2-3 weeks tops for a good pile of dirt :D

Bicycle

The old trees was for Thor who DOES have the tools. Cut pallets of firewood old logs and tree tables do sell. Might take time to find the right buyers but firewood sells at super markets for 6.99 for about 6-8 logs

(http://www.lcfp.com/images/Birchwood.jpg)


Zero money... yet you manage to eat and stay alive... quite a feat... I see Mexican illegals out here that manage to make money with nothing and manage to get all sorts of government help

I know for a fact that the Mormons will help out money wise and all they ask in return is you listen to their sermons. You are not obligated to join, just ask you to listen. A friend of mine took that hand for 4 months as they paid his rent. He was Pagan...  (He did however return it when he got a job)

There are THOUSANDS of ways to find a starting point.

Yet you have a computer toll and your hands can spend HOURS typing. There are many online jobs available... serious ones where you work at home that are not scams

Ever heard of sites like DEVIANT ART?  Kids create online art and some sell it. Many websites online that sell digital copies only. I bought a CD once, paid $49.99 because it had a copy of a very old hard to find Rosicrucian document. It was on a CD containing a collection of old public domain files, including the entire works of Aliester Crowley "Equinox"  That was a bonus... I was happy to pay for the one file

I once paid 50.00 for a list of phone numbers... I could have found these numbers online... maybe... IF I knew what and where to look... but that 50.00 saved me the time and pointed me to the right place. There were 24 numbers on that paper...

people pay 200.00 to get a copy of patents  Yes you can get them online free but many people don't have time to do the search and paying someone else research time is VERY COMMON in the world and well paid

Doctors seek people at home to do medical records... on and on the list goes

All you need is a computer, time  and ability to search

Most of the gold I have ever found I dug up myself or ripped out of old computers. Have Thor drop off old scrap computers and electronic stuff and loan ya a screwdriver and wire cutter and you can get gold (and copper aluminum and steel)  You would be amazed at how much gold and copper is in a computer (or cell phone)


Stop whining and do something :P

::)

Who's "whining?"  Asking questions and pointing out difficulties in logistics.  I cannot walk for more than a few minutes without pain, and I live nowhere near anywhere I can collect all these goodies.

And FYI...  Beth and I are working on just that:  doing something.

Well...  The talk was to print tabloid size - and the printer only does 8 1/2 x 11.  That is what I was envisioning.  I guess I could print out 8 1/2 x 11...  But I doubt I could get the $150 for them Deuem was suggesting.  MAYBE $20 for 8 1/2 x 11.