Ok all, an interesting anomaly on the surface of Planet Mars, found in a photo from Mars Rover Curiosity, Sol day 120. My title for this one is "Big Bird". Actually, it may not be a very big bird, but any bird on Mars should be considered a "Big Bird".
This bird is clearly visible! It has a white head, tiny eyes, yellowish beak, a brown feathery looking body, and it seems to be looking directly at the camera. This bird is located in the below link photo, slightly down from the top edge, and about 25% from the right edge toward the left.
Note, there is a shadow just to our left of the birds head that can confuse the view. That "shadow" is the dark face of a rock directly behind the bird.
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/figures/PIA16700_fig1.jpg
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10008/Big_Bird_Color_w_Locater_.jpg)
Talk about that shadow, it looks like a 5 O'clock shadow while the rest of the stones are almost noon. Did you work any of this up ? Measure them ?
Can you figure out how large the bird is?
I can't get to the link as of right now, too much traffic. Will get it another time..
Deuem
Oh, I had fun crawling all over THAT one, rdunk! Don't think I found Your bird unless it's the first image here:
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Birdmaybe.png~320x480?t=1383799570)
But I did find other things of interest... Don't know why they looked so good on My screen unless it's compression. They're a bit blurred from the original.
Like... This looks like some kind of weapon out of Mass Effect:
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Birdmaybe6.png~320x480?t=1383799583)
Next, what looks like a decorated vase:
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Birdmaybe5.png~320x480?t=1383799581)
I kept having the sense that I was looking at blocks of busted masonry amidst rock. THIS one made Me even more inclined. Looks like a piece of a counter top to the left - and a VERY cubic piece with it on the right, with other "masonry-like" stuff too:
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Birdmaybe4.png~320x480?t=1383799578)
What looks like a bit of wall:
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Birdmaybe3.png~320x480?t=1383799575)
Right there in the center almost looks like a decorated panel piece, or corner stone...
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Birdmaybe2.png~320x480?t=1383799573)
And how does something like this form, do You suppose, with that green cheeseish thing going?
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Birdmaybe7.png~320x480?t=1383799569)
Wait. Are You pulling Our leg and this is really the moon? [grin]
Amy, the bird. which I put the locater around, is just to the right of your first pic above.
Quote from: deuem on November 07, 2013, 04:57:59 AM
Talk about that shadow, it looks like a 5 O'clock shadow while the rest of the stones are almost noon. Did you work any of this up ? Measure them ?
Can you figure out how large the bird is?
I can't get to the link as of right now, too much traffic. Will get it another time..
Deuem
Deuem, the darker spot I was referring to (as a shadow) is just at the left of the bird's head - as I said, it is actually the darkened face of a rock to the rear of the bird.
No, knowing the size of anomalies is always a problem with the Rovers. One can see that the bird is larger than the tiniest rocks, but is smaller than even some of the slightly larger rocks around it. The screenshot is magnified significantly to get a decent view of this bird.
If you can find it in the original pic, you can see how small it actually appears, as do the rocks also..
Ok, darkened face not shadow works for me... Keep going.
If you know all of the cameras details you can get close to figuring out how large it is.
Takes a lot of Math and work to get an idea.
Quote from: rdunk on November 07, 2013, 05:17:21 AM
Amy, the bird. which I put the locater around, is just to the right of your first pic above.
Oh. That pic wasn't there when I began My post... Turned off the warning, so.... Ok.
rdunks initial post looks like a rock, with another small rock behind it to the left.
I like the sqaure wall peices in the latter posts though 8)
I think the "head" of the "bird" is the right side (from our point of view) of that rock that has that dark face, just behind the "bird".
Hard to be sure with such small feature. Unfortunately, the stereo pair for this photo (and the other from the same Sol) is much smaller.
There is no question about this being a bird, as it is quite obvious in the pic. Here is the same NASA pic, with a bit different color. The bird may be more seeable for some of you in this one.
It is too bad that the legs and feet are in the shadow of the bird, and thus aren't seeable, as those features would definitely "make it so" for everyone!! :) I will see if there is any way to brings those our a little.
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10008/Big_Bird_w_Locater_-_Screen_shot_2013-10-28_at_1_27_10_AM.jpg)
Quote from: rdunk on November 07, 2013, 02:28:17 PM
There is no question about this being a bird, as it is quite obvious in the pic. Here is the same NASA pic, with a bit different color. The bird may be more seeable for some of you in this one.
No, the second pic clarifies it is rocks and shadows. The human mind is always trying to find recognizable patterns in percieved chaos. That is the very basis of optical illusions.
Quote from: WarToad on November 07, 2013, 02:44:41 PM
No, the second pic clarifies it is rocks and shadows. The human mind is always trying to find recognizable patterns in percieved chaos. That is the very basis of optical illusions.
So WarToad, are you saying you do not see the white head, the two tiny beady eyes, and the yellow beak, right there in the pic.? If not, what level of screen display "resolution" are you operating with? Those features are clear to me @ 2560x1440. But thus far I still can't see the feet and legs in the shadow! :(
Quote from: rdunk on November 07, 2013, 03:07:30 PM
So WarToad, are you saying you do not see the white head, the two tiny beady eyes, and the yellow beak, right there in the pic.? If not, what level of screen display "resolution" are you operating with? Those features are clear to me @ 2560x1440. But thus far I still can't see the feet and legs in the shadow! :(
No. I very very clearly see rocks of the same texture and hue as other rocks in the picture and their shadows. I can certainly make out a bird-like shape to the whole thing in an abstract art kind of way, but it by no means is clear. (I'm on my work computer, it's 1280 by 1024 triple screen)
The more I look at it the more I see normal landscape. (With some interesting geology and mixed rock types for sure) But if that's not what you see, that's simply not what you see.
More animals woop. Its not called Curiosity for nothing hehe.
Had a wtf moment while looking at another image: PIA16568
"Was that a monkey I just saw??" lol
Well It does look like one crouched down.
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6879/f59j.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/f59j.jpg/)
Few other weird thing there too. Above to the right is a weird thing, and up to the left looks like the skull of a cone head.
I wanna know if all these things are real but with rock texture pasted over by the automatic cleansing, or if there statues/petrified animals.
Hope its not just the mind playing tricks lol.
Very interesting either way.
:) :) Vandalis, I see what you are referring to that has a resemblance to a rock monkey, but the others I am not readily seeing. Always interesting to see what is in some of these pics!
My assessment of the "bird:"
I see what appears to be just what You, rdunk, are describing. I do ask if it is unreasonable to consider the following:
1. Could it just be happenstance of rock formation and perspective?
2. Is it a piece of statuary left in this jumble of what I see more as ruins of a city, or building at least, of enormous proportions amongst the landscape?
Because I'm here to tell You that I saw areas I'm pretty sure were manipulated to obscure something... I could go through and set up the screenshots like I did with stuff I found tres interesent.
After looking at two 3D versions it looks (to me) like the "head" is really the rock behind the "bird".
Cross eye version.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/7595/5apb.jpg)
Anaglyph version.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img802/9616/gyye.jpg)
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 07, 2013, 07:00:33 PM
My assessment of the "bird:"
I see what appears to be just what You, rdunk, are describing. I do ask if it is unreasonable to consider the following:
1. Could it just be happenstance of rock formation and perspective?
2. Is it a piece of statuary left in this jumble of what I see more as ruins of a city, or building at least, of enormous proportions amongst the landscape?
Because I'm here to tell You that I saw areas I'm pretty sure were manipulated to obscure something... I could go through and set up the screenshots like I did with stuff I found tres interesent.
Amy, thanks for your comments!
On this earth, there are a lot of physical things that happen in nature that causes us to wonder, so, it probably does likewise on Mars. Some things can be natural, and still have some degree of likeness to un-natural objects. But.............for a natural object to look exactly like a "complex" un-natural object - just doesn't happen, in my opinion.
Take the iguana that you posted here yesterday, and posted on Fox News today. Yes, that rock does have a few feature lines that are remindful of an iguana. But of course, we know t is not an iguana, and that "iguana" clearly is just-a-rock.
But, with this bird, there are only two features that we don't have, one is the legs/feet, which are shadowed, and the chirp or quack sounds that this bird might make. Everything else we can see for what it is.
And yes, we do agree on the statuary possibilities. For just a photo, and without seeing the bird move or fly, we cannot know if it is alive or a statuary piece. Yes, there are numerous areas of destruction on the Mars surface. Because some of these areas are so similar, one could think they were purposely singled out for a direct hit, rather than the crater being the results of a meteor hit. I think it extremely interesting that Rover Opportunity (I don't know about Spirit) had a travel path that "just happened to pass right by several of these "VERY SMALL CRATERS JUST TO GET A FEW PICS"?? (really can make one wonder) I do "contend" that several of these are/were burial places, and would logically have statuaries and/or the such-like, as determined by whoever was doing the burying! :)
Regardless of real bird of statue, the primary point for us remains:
* real bird = life on Mars NOW!
* real statuary = real life and intelligent design on Mars as some point, in the past and/or the present, or transient.
Quote from: ArMaP on November 07, 2013, 10:26:28 PM
After looking at two 3D versions it looks (to me) like the "head" is really the rock behind the "bird".
ArMaP, it is quite obvious you are not seeing the white head of the bird. I still see the white head, even in your playing with the photos. In the anaglyph version you posted, the white head of the bird is still there, next to the red. The white head is not turned to the side, it is looking straight in our direction.
Quote from: rdunk on November 07, 2013, 11:09:53 PM
I still see the white head, even in your playing with the photos.
To make things clear, I only resized one of the photos to match the size of the other, that's all the "playing" I did.
QuoteThe white head is not turned to the side, it is looking straight in our direction.
Who said it was? ???
Quote from: ArMaP on November 07, 2013, 11:24:23 PM
To make things clear, I only resized one of the photos to match the size of the other, that's all the "playing" I did.
Who said it was? ???
ArMaP, I thought this bird might be tough for you, as the bird is pretty clear, as anomalies go! :) Yes, you did say "it looks (to me) like", so I do give you much credit for stating it that way.
One point I haven't mentioned before, it seems that in addition to the white head that can be seen there, there is also a bit of white neck/neck feathers of sorts, just visible under the head. This can also be seen in the darker pic in the original post. Can you see this feature too?? Here is that pic again!
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10008/Big_Bird_Color_w_Locater_.jpg)
Quote from: rdunk on November 07, 2013, 11:38:22 PM
ArMaP, I thought this bird might be tough for you, as the bird is pretty clear, as anomalies go! :)
I don't have any problems seeing the "bird", the only difference is that I see it as being made from two rocks: the darker one in front and the bright side of the rock behind it.
QuoteOne point I haven't mentioned before, it seems that in addition to the white head that can be seen there, there is also a bit of white neck/neck feathers of sorts, just visible under the head. This can also be seen in the darker pic in the original post. Can you see this feature too?? Here is that pic again!
First of all, you should use the original image, and when you resize an image you should use a non-resampling method, to avoid creating things that are not there.
This is how the "bird" looks like in the original photo.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img27/5517/2gxl.png)
As you can see, what is most visible is the compression artefacts. Those, when we do a resize that resamples the image, get mixed with the real data of the image, so we end up with an image that is a mix of the original and the compression artefacts, only now those artefacts are not recognisable as such.
This is how I see the rocks forming it.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img9/4881/1ufn.png)
The "neck" looks like a dent in the rock, making the left side brighter, as the sunlight comes from the right.
Absolutely not so! That is not how the original pic looks. You have really messed with this one!
Please provide me the link to that photo, and I will take a comparison look at it, but right now I cannot accept it as even being factual. Rover Curiosity photo quality starts out being much better than that!! Your pic is completely blurred. I am not sure what your purpose is in that regard, other than presenting the usual skeptic's point of view.
There is no way the head of that bird is back beyond the body of that bird, and that is clear in the photo. Certainly ArMaP, you are entitled to present your opinion, be it fact of fiction! :)
But just FYI, even in your blurred photo, the white head of that bird remains still obvious! ;)
Few more crops I grabbed:
A rock on the right that looks wrong... Could be a stitching artifact?
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-rightrockwrong.png~320x480?t=1383875244)
Evidence of photo manipulation:
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-Coverup01indicated.png~320x480?t=1383875229)
And
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-clonetool01indicated.png~320x480?t=1383875227)
Other weird stuff - like a large shell?
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-shell.png~320x480?t=1383875224)
A skull?
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-face.png~320x480?t=1383875232)
A hersheys kiss?
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-hersheyskiss.png~320x480?t=1383875236)
And a couple of pieces where I "looked under the outcrops:"
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-shelflife2proc.png~320x480?t=1383875246)
(http://rs1156.pbsrc.com/albums/p572/AmaterasuSolar/Mobile%20Uploads/Mars-shelflifeProc.png~320x480?t=1383875250)
Quote from: rdunk on November 08, 2013, 01:51:56 AM
Absolutely not so! That is not how the original pic looks. You have really messed with this one!
That shows how much you know about it.
Here's the original.
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00120/mcam/0120MR0752014000E1_DXXX.jpg
QuotePlease provide me the link to that photo, and I will take a comparison look at it, but right now I cannot accept it as even being factual.
Denial is not a good sign. :P
QuoteRover Curiosity photo quality starts out being much better than that!! Your pic is completely blurred.
Blurred? That's funny. ;D
QuoteI am not sure what your purpose is in that regard, other than presenting the usual skeptic's point of view.
It's the same purpose that I have followed all my life, truth and facts.
QuoteCertainly ArMaP, you are entitled to present your opinion, be it fact of fiction! :)
I never present fiction, I don't even have the imagination for that and I do not copy other people's ideas. :P
QuoteBut just FYI, even in your blurred photo, the white head of that bird remains still obvious! ;)
I wasn't expecting you to see it, the way you present your opinion as if it was a fact was an obvious sign. :)
Edited to add that I haven't seen if this photo is already in the PDS, those are usually better than the copies they put on the site. I will have a look tomorrow. :)
Quote from: Amaterasu on November 08, 2013, 02:02:30 AM
Few more crops I grabbed:
A rock on the right that looks wrong... Could be a stitching artifact?
That's one of the reasons why we should use the originals and not the panoramas.
AMP, can you post the best link for the bird so I am not looking at so many pixels. IE: not a jpg link. any bit maps or png files. We have been through this jpg thing so many times now and all of the compression issues. If it is jpg it is problems. pngs are so much cleaner........
Deuem
Quote from: deuem on November 08, 2013, 02:15:37 AM
AMP, can you post the best link for the bird so I am not looking at so many pixels.
Deuem
I just posted the link to the original image (the only one I have seen so far). :)
Quote from: ArMaP on November 08, 2013, 02:20:50 AM
I just posted the link to the original image (the only one I have seen so far). :)
IE: not a jpg link. any bit maps or png files. We have been through this jpg thing so many times now and all of the compression issues. If it is jpg it is problems. pngs are so much cleaner........
Deuem
That shows how much you know about it.
Here's the original.
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00120/mcam/0120MR0752014000E1_DXXX.jpg
ArMaP, the link you posted is the same photo I used for the 2nd pic posted, wherein I said, "It is "lighter". No difference, the bird is just there! Actually, if you look closely, you can see a darker "space" between where the bird's feet are that we just cannot see yet. Also one can see that the wing-feathers are actually multi-colored, darker and lighter!!!!! :))
On these photos and any othe UFO photos, the process of trying to keep the real is always a problem. The original of this photo is 1408 x 1200 a very nice size indeed. The very moment you enlarge that or do a zoom you create pixels or see a pixelated photo.
A program like Photoshop gives you an option to view pixels at the same size as your monitor so nothing has been changed. Now with out doing any zooms, I snapped a section of the bird. The snap is 317 x 240. Depending on how tou have your Peggy monitor set [at what viewing scale] it should come in that size.
That is why I like film so much better. But one can not ship film back and fourth from mars.
So below is the true photo at the true size in pixels. Pretty small but that is what we work with. For Deuem to work on such a small object I also need to manipulate this size figure and this is where ArMaP and I dis-agree all the time. Who is right and can enlargement from a digital photo represent reality very well or is it a computer driven optical illusion.
This argument can go both ways. I say the computer uses what is there, other say it makes thing up. In reality it mosy likely does both. But since I look for patterns it does not bother me that much since I can pick up thos same patterns in the pixel sized print, just not as clean because of the size.
What all of us need is a new proven method of enlarging pixels without distortion and keeping them crystal clear. I have not found that yet. So we live in a blurred world or a manipulated one, take your pick.
Try and print out the below but keep it at the pixel size and then look at in with a scope or mag-glass
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/Snapofpixels.jpg) (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/deuem/media/Snapofpixels.jpg.html)
Remember Pixels are pixels and Dots per inch are just how many of them you print in an inch. So the dpi will not change the pixels just make them more spread out or compressed. Put your face up to a tv or billboard and you can see all the pixels.
Deuem
ps, I used this print
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00120/mcam/0120MR0752014000E1_DXXX.jpg (http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00120/mcam/0120MR0752014000E1_DXXX.jpg)
Thanks much deuem. I am no expert, but I (and most of us) do have two eyes. :) One of the things I look for in working with the Mars photos is - what does it look like in the basic pic, and then I carefully watch to see if there is dramatic object change as it is magnified. In most cases, I have found that magnification is just fine, until it reaches the point of over mag. Of course, I am talking about using it for "eye-work", not deuem and etc!
Like this bird - from the lowest mag. up, I see no real difference being made in the build and structure of this birdie object. Of course it can be over magnified until it is unrecognizable, but there is no profitable reason to do that.
For the "true-photo" you posted, I see the bird very plainly, just as I have described previously. And it is still looking straight at me, even at its true size!! :)) :))
Good, I posted all of thet so readers can get an idea of what to really look for and what happens in zooms. I will try to print this bird photo out on A4 at a very high DPI count and see what it looks like there.
If this Bird is your find, you have to name it.
Deuem
How about "M'rs. Birdie"............we will call her "M'rs. Birdie", with the M'rs. allegorically standing for "Mars".
Glad to have you with us M'rs. Birdie, the only "known to be known" real bird on Mars!!! :))
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/04images/animations/Dove0011.gif)
Ok M'rs Birdie it is,
Now can you equate this birdie to any know bird here, maybe find one in the same pose and post them side by side, That would be cooooooool
So we all know exactly what your thinking of.
Deuem
Quote from: ArMaP on November 07, 2013, 10:26:28 PM
After looking at two 3D versions it looks (to me) like the "head" is really the rock behind the "bird".
Cross eye version.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/7595/5apb.jpg)
Anaglyph version.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img802/9616/gyye.jpg)
Thank you, ArMaP. That cements without a doubt what I've been seeing since the pic came out. Two rocks, two shadow sets, and the brains desire to find patterns in chaos.
Nope, the bird is clearly there, regardless of the skeptical view! :P
Quote from: deuem on November 08, 2013, 06:47:30 AM
Ok M'rs Birdie it is,
Now can you equate this birdie to any know bird here, maybe find one in the same pose and post them side by side, That would be cooooooool
So we all know exactly what your thinking of.
Deuem
Ok deuem, I have looked at a lot of bird pics, and thus far I do not find what I would call an exact match. The closest I have found is a Bald eagle. The structure of the Bald eagle is similar, with the "broad shoulders" The plumage is about identical with the mixed brownish colors, and for what we see, and the head is white and the beak is yellow. No idea nor feel for size relationship.
I will post a pic that gives us a pretty good comparison view. I am not suggesting that M'rs. Birdie is a Bald Eagle! ;)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10008/M_rs__Birdie_Screen_shot_2013-11-08_at_12_03_00_PM.jpg)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10008/M_rs__Birdie_Compare_Screen_shot_2013-11-08_at_12_00_34_PM.jpg)
Quote from: deuem on November 08, 2013, 02:23:10 AM
IE: not a jpg link. any bit maps or png files.
The problem is that camera stores the photos in its internal memory as JPGs.
Everybody that didn't understood or ignored the reasons were asking for colour photos from the rovers, so now they get them, but as these are three times as big as a greyscale version they use JPG images and we get this.
This following image is PNG image, so it doesn't add any more artefacts to the ones already there. The image can be downloaded from here (http://an.rsl.wustl.edu/su/j3J6Mzf5KZ) in IMG format, along with the label (LBL) file. With those two and using NASAview we can see the image, but as NASAview only saves the images as GIF or JPEG I had to use ISIS to convert it into a CUB file, then convert it to a PNG.
Here's the result.
(click for full size)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/8199/5b3g.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img818/8199/5b3g.png)
And here is colour adjusted version, just to show how it would look without the (apparently) reddish atmosphere.
(click for full size)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img534/7624/ztdi.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img534/7624/ztdi.png)
PS: if you open the LBL file in a text editor you can see that the image was saved originally as a JPG with 85% quality. Too low. :(
Thanks ArMaP for the work! Still, in every photo the bird is there. There is life of various sorts on Mars, including birds.
Now if you could just tell us the actual size of that bird, that would be good. Or, if maybe we could get a 3D layered print of it, we could have a real model of this bird!! :))
There's a reply to this thread over on rdunks other thread that I posted the other night while being told by My body to sleep. Many apologies to rdunk.
Reply #13: http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5642.msg77444#msg77444