UK Radio telescope at Jodrell Bank, UK is about to attempt to be the first to detect signals from Kepler 22b. The attempt is being televised live on BBC2, as I type this in the UK.
If anything of substance occurs I will report back here.
If you are in the UK then turn your TV set onto Stargazing Live right now. There is a live one hour TV debate to follow including on the "search" for ET life.
Makes me want to move to the UK!
Can you get me a Green Card, Pim? ;D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wnvpf (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wnvpf)
Quote from: starwarp2000 on January 19, 2012, 01:27:12 AM
Makes me want to move to the UK!
Can you get me a Green Card, Pim? ;D
We're already overcrowded here. Besides, the weather is sh1te and property prices are crazy. And have you seen how much we pay for fuel here (http://www.usa-vs-uk.com/petrol.html) - nearly twice what you pay! In fact, I'm off, can you get me a Green Card?
The show was a let down in terms of listening to Kepler 22b. The debate was a bit lame too. However, that show is a great idea. Telescope sales in the UK went up 500% in response to the show!
The Cox Effect: Amazon reports 500% increase in telescope sales following astronomer's Stargazing TV show: Professor Brian Cox is making science sexy again (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2088476/Stargazing-Live-Brian-Cox-effect-leads-500-increase-telescope-sales-Amazon.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)
Now we just have to convince everyone interested that aliens are real. ;)
KEPLER 22b that's the "earth like" slightly larger than our "own" planet
isn't it? what are they hoping there will be intelligent life that will understand
the message we send? what are we sending, binary code?
How long will it take to get the message there AND back,if one does return?
bit of a long shot if you ask me & a publicity stunt at best (that's a good thing really)
But i reckon we have already introduced ourselves to the "others",so to speak. ;)
Quote from: stealtyaroura on January 20, 2012, 07:16:22 PM
How long will it take to get the message there AND back,if one does return?
Kelper 22b, Constelation Cygnus,
620ly.
So to answer that: 620 yrs signal out + 620 yrs return =
1240 yrs :o :o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler-22b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler-22b)
Quote from: starwarp2000 on January 21, 2012, 01:47:41 AM
Kelper 22b, Constelation Cygnus, 620ly.
So to answer that: 620 yrs signal out + 620 yrs return = 1240 yrs :o :o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler-22b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler-22b)
After reading this post, I searched for "instantaneous communication in space" and this was one of the results on the first page.
Breakthrough In Faster-Than-Light Travel/Communication And SETIQuoteInterstellar space-travel and near-instant communication; discovering a network of intelligent extraterrestrial signals; harnessing the mysterious instantaneous quantum-entanglement effect. These are all either science fiction or things we will probably never live to see or understand, correct? Not at all. By the end of this article you will see how clarifying a simple but extremely fundamental misunderstanding in our science legacy makes all of this a viable reality "" now.
...
In actuality, much of today's science emerged in much simpler times centuries ago, now forming a legacy of often unquestioned and presumed truths about our world. But on closer examination many of these presumed truths are actually just abstract models and not physical answers at all. This misconception is powerfully reinforced in our educational systems and science programs, locking us into an often-troubled science paradigm of abstractions, contradictions, mysteries and paradoxes.
...
Today's science explains quantum entanglement as an experimental observation where two photons from the same light source travel together, then are sent on two separate paths yet apparently maintain a mysterious link with each other. Thus, if one is later altered (such as a change in polarization), the other is instantaneously altered in the same fashion no matter how far apart they may be. This is considered a mysterious faster-than-light communication between two "entangled photons".
An analogy for the difference between these two signal-transmission methods can be seen in the desktop toy with a line of hanging metal spheres suspended next to one another, often called Newton's Cradle. When one sphere is pulled back then released to swing and strike the others, a sphere at the far end is immediately ejected. A long line of such spheres would allow transmission of such a signal to the far end in this manner far faster than it would take for a single sphere to swing that same distance on its own.
Likewise, the new understanding suggests we might develop ways to look for such rapidly conducted signals hidden within existing starlight that already connects us with the distant stars, rather than today's method of looking for conventional light-speed signals as embedded features that move along with the beam. There could well be a hidden interstellar Newton's Cradle-style internet all around us, awaiting any civilization that reaches this fundamental understanding of matter and energy. We could also find a way to conduct such a signal within the light of our own sun, revolutionizing telecommunications in the process.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/2035990/breakthrough_in_fasterthanlight_travelcommunication_and_seti/
There is a bit more informtation in that article but being that I'm not a Quantum Physicist, I cannot offer much more than the fact that interplanetary communication has come a long way.
Take these thoughts on that subject into consideration Dreb:
QuoteLet us observe the sky. During a cloudless day we see two distinct atmospheric colors, yellow and blue, which we now know Goethe considered as the only true colors. The yellow is the dot of the sun and the blue is the dome of the atmosphere. The red-yellow pole of color formation is observed as the sun moves from overhead towards the horizon, it progressively darkens through orange-gold-red colors of diverse variance, until it disappears beneath the horizon. As the sun sinks the blue sky turns darker towards the black sky of night, lit only by the stars. Mountain climbers and jet pilots have reported seeing the sky turn to violet at high altitudes. We can see that this is the blue-violet pole.
In terms of propagation the yellow light of the sun can be seen as a radial transmission wave, or rays, directly connecting the atmosphere with the solar body itself. This red-yellow pole is a longitudinal, instant direct connection. At night the longitudinal beam of stars can be seen. It is possible, given this line of thought, to conceive of the probability that the starlight we see is an instant transmission, a direct "real-time" connection to the star we are viewing.
The domed blue sky can be attributed to the luminescence of the atmosphere by the solar wind—that energetic stream which the sun continually feeds into space. The solar wind takes approximately eight minutes to travel to Earth from the Sun, though some atomic particles carried by it may take longer. It cannot travel the distance to other star systems and this is why we see only the longitudinal rays of stars at night. We could see them during the day if it were not for the blue sky. Actually, a transverse light filter may be manufactured by digging a deep well and climbing down to the bottom. One may use this device to view stars during the day. Viewing distant objects through a tube produces a similar, but less profound effect, the objects appear more clearly.
As the solar energy cannot be separated from the life force, we look to Wilhelm Reich's observations of atmospheric orgone for help in understanding the structure of this blue atmosphere. Reich discovered, learned to isolate and scientifically study the life energy which he termed "orgone". Its observable form is that of a pulsing vesicle which has specific properties. Reich reported that among the observed optical properties, the orgone was bluish and that it moves through the atmosphere in a "corkscrew" pattern. We can see this as a progressive, life-positive, transverse wave. Once one begins to "read" the clouds, they will notice this corkscrew pattern as a regular function of cloud formation. Its signature manifests in diverse metamorphosis, but once recognized, it will be readily noticed.
http://thomasbrown.org/Light&Electricity/light_and_electricity.html (http://thomasbrown.org/Light&Electricity/light_and_electricity.html)
Very thought provoking indeed!
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2549/lechart.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/lechart.gif/)
Add that to the fact that we don't really understand what light and electricity is, and we can begin to see where we are.
It is interesting to note that in the above diagram that
Light: Yellow/red, Solar Body, Longitudinal/Radial has Instantaneous Transmission and the direct Electrical Analogue is
LMD Waves: Tesla's Electricity, Longitudinal, Faster than Light!
Notice also that Dielectricity operates in Counter-Space!
What does this all mean?? It means that any advanced civilisation that would wish to transmit across the vastness of space wouldn't be using TEM (Tranverse Electromagnetic) modes but would be using LMD (Longitudinal Magneto-Dielectric) Modes!
Using the light analogue they would use the Yellow/Red Solar Light that is instantaneous across the Universe!
Quote from: stealtyaroura on January 20, 2012, 07:16:22 PM
How long will it take to get the message there AND back,if one does return?
bit of a long shot if you ask me & a publicity stunt at best (that's a good thing really)
But i reckon we have already introduced ourselves to the "others",so to speak. ;)
There was no attempt to send a message. It was just an attempt to listen and see if there was anything resembling signals generated by "sentient life". However, it turned out that it "sounded" just like background space.
It was definitely a long-shot as for a radio signal to be discernible would probably require deliberately sending it here from K22b. Even a telescope as powerful as the one at Jodrell bank would be unlikely to detect our radio transmissions from Kepler22b for example.
Havingsaidthat, it really could have turned into an accidental disclosure moment so I thought it was worth watching. I imagine Jodrell Bank had already tried it so it wasn't really a first. Can you imaging disclosure by accident live on TV being allowed? Nah!
:-\
excuse me for butting in here....i've only read a tiny bit about this
but
has anyone ever considered that the "background space noise".. is/are signals/communication between space folk of which we are too stupid to understand...as yet?
i mean..really... do they think it will be morris code or english comin at them?
stepping back out..didn't mean to disrupt
:-X
I'd say it is almost certain that some of the background radio "noise" from space is made up of sentient communications. The trouble is proving it or recognising it if it just sounds like random noise. If we focus on Earth like objects in space we hopefully increase the chances of getting a DISCERNIBLE signal and recognising it.
ETA: I forgot to mention that Kepler 22b is not an especially near Galactic neighbour.
Quote from: sky otter on January 24, 2012, 07:01:17 PM
has anyone ever considered that the "background space noise".. is/are signals/communication between space folk of which we are too stupid to understand...as yet?
Surprisingly, current Science looks upon 'Noise' as a degradation or an impediment to the Signals they are examining!
They go to enormous lengths to filter out this noise and leave what they believe is the only 'One True' Pure Signal.
On the other side of the rainbow ;), we can examine Telsa's works and find that there is another side to the spectrum of what we call 'Electromagnetic Radiation'.
He found that what Physicists call 'Noise' is really the LMD component of a Quadrature Electromagnetism!
It manifests as noise because it is simultaneously 'Sweeping' across an infinite frequency spectrum.
So yes!, you are correct in saying that any 'Advanced' Civilisation would embed that signal 'In the Noise', as it would take another 'Advanced Civilisation' (One who has advanced beyond 'Toy Science) to realise this and decode the transmission. ;)
:)
Thanks guys for according my question some merit..
i have been working with energy for some years and the term 'toy science' is fairly apt
even if a bit mean..lol
i better explain
i am not into one of the hard sciences like most here seem to be but the metaphysical ones of energy healing using kinesiology and body meridians..you know the woo-woo stuff..hahahahah
but
one of the big things i have learnt is how little we really know about energy and how it works on all levels
and one of the other things is to question everything even if you think you understand it..
:D
Quote from: sky otter on January 25, 2012, 05:06:07 PM
:)
Thanks guys for according my question some merit..
i have been working with energy for some years and the term 'toy science' is fairly apt
even if a bit mean..lol
i better explain
i am not into one of the hard sciences like most here seem to be but the metaphysical ones of energy healing using kinesiology and body meridians..you know the woo-woo stuff..hahahahah
but
one of the big things i have learnt is how little we really know about energy and how it works on all levels
and one of the other things is to question everything even if you think you understand it..
:D
Hey its not woo woo stuff Otter. Thats the Norm ;)
People visit Chinese Doctors all the time to fix ailments which the 'hard science' of the likes of Nasa sorta folk cannot fix... And that is all based on Flow of Chi. Many generations (or more truthfully thousands of years of research) of Hard Science in regards to Chi within Chinese Medicine to the point its normal... All over this stinking Planet ;D
And in saying so it great folks pick on Nasa using their Methods LOL ;D
Just saying
Quote from: starwarp2000 on January 22, 2012, 04:13:55 AM
Take these thoughts on that subject into consideration Dreb:
http://thomasbrown.org/Light&Electricity/light_and_electricity.html (http://thomasbrown.org/Light&Electricity/light_and_electricity.html)
Very thought provoking indeed!
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2549/lechart.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/lechart.gif/)
Add that to the fact that we don't really understand what light and electricity is, and we can begin to see where we are.
It is interesting to note that in the above diagram that Light: Yellow/red, Solar Body, Longitudinal/Radial has Instantaneous Transmission and the direct Electrical Analogue is LMD Waves: Tesla's Electricity, Longitudinal, Faster than Light
!
Notice also that Dielectricity operates in Counter-Space!
What does this all mean?? It means that any advanced civilisation that would wish to transmit across the vastness of space wouldn't be using TEM (Tranverse Electromagnetic) modes but would be using LMD (Longitudinal Magneto-Dielectric) Modes!
Using the light analogue they would use the Yellow/Red Solar Light that is instantaneous across the Universe!
That along with every thought here is awesome Starwarper!
Interesting you post a diagram of two opposites and talk LIGHT. ;D
I've seen the effect of sound on reality as we think it is..never could replicate it though sadly :(
EDIT to Add to make things clear:
I could never replicate an odd sound experience I had noodling with an analog synth which caused a "white out" . One in a million hit to find that combo of sounds which melt reality right proper so to speak ;)
Quote from: sky otter on January 25, 2012, 05:06:07 PM
i have been working with energy for some years and the term 'toy science' is fairly apt
even if a bit mean..lol
i better explain
i am not into one of the hard sciences like most here seem to be but the metaphysical ones of energy healing using kinesiology and body meridians..you know the woo-woo stuff..hahahahah
Watch it you lot. ALL of the arts and sciences should be able to learn from one another. Don't dismiss what main stream science offers. Don't forget, there is an invisible side to what scientists do privately in both academia and industry.
My interest in physics and astronomy is almost a hobby, although I have taught physics. I am a molecular genetics/biomedical scientist.
I have studied para sciences for just as long and am also an initiate of sorts. And no I'm not a Mason, I'm a real initiate - most Masons know sweet FA. I almost NEVER let on everything I know because it gives me information on who is where. Don't judge a book by its cover. ;)
;D ;D
apologies for saying toy science..
Watch it you lot. ALL of the arts and sciences should be able to learn from one another....i am in total agreement with you on this.
Hi primander
i think i was trying to say exactly what you did..Don't judge a book by its cover.
and only explaining where i was coming from and that it is usually not the 'accepted' end of the energy studies.. ::)
i am so used to being ragged on for the woo woo stuff..i try and get the fact that that is where i am coming from out of the way..but by no means was i trying to vilify the hard sciences..
lol..they are really closer than most want to admit
i think conversation on all of it would help in each ..but i did want to make clear the direction i was coming from with my question..
i see/feel energy from the biological end of it..plants and people and rocks and colors and i find value to everything
the only real distinction to me is what we know vs what we have yet to learn.
i have also studied and used the para sciences and i know that everything is energy only seperated by the packaging..
No need to apologise, I didn't feel personally attacked or anything. I'm just very conscious how much I have understood my "other interests" better because of rather than in spite of my scientific background.
:)
I have understood my "other interests" better because of rather than in spite of my scientific background.
a good frame of reference is always helpful
Quote from: Pimander on January 25, 2012, 10:31:42 PM
Watch it you lot. ALL of the arts and sciences should be able to learn from one another. Don't dismiss what main stream science offers. Don't forget, there is an invisible side to what scientists do privately in both academia and industry.
My interest in physics and astronomy is almost a hobby, although I have taught physics. I am a molecular genetics/biomedical scientist.
I have studied para sciences for just as long and am also an initiate of sorts. And no I'm not a Mason, I'm a real initiate - most Masons know sweet FA. I almost NEVER let on everything I know because it gives me information on who is where. Don't judge a book by its cover. ;)
It was me that used the term 'Toy Science' first ;D Sky Otter was just merely quoting me.
Let me try and extrapolate the meaning that I wished to convey!
Firstly, my background is in Electrical/Electronic Engineering and Avionics/Space Sciences. In the context of the sentence I used that term, it was to convey the difference between our Sciences and that of an Advanced Extraterrestrial one.
In my career i have come to the conclusion that we don't really know what reality is, as we assume certain things about reality, and produce theories based on those, mostly completely isolated from reality!
This has been demonstrated, in that, we have completely inadequate theories for Heat, Light, Electricity (Magnetism and Dielectricity), Cosmology, Stellar Mechanics..... etc. etc. (The list goes on)!
You are correct in your assumption that a 'Different' Science goes on behind 'closed doors', and the really disheartening part of that is that they are mostly for Military Applications! (Finding better ways to kill one another).
So, in my use of that term, I was merely highlighting the fact, that we, the 'mainstream' scientists are like the 'blind leading the blind', in that our assumptions have retarded out advancement and will do so in the future, if we don't change our 'World View'.
P.S. If i disparaged Scientists, I am sorry, but in doing so I have disparaged myself, which is OK, because i am Australian ;D
Completely with you on the world view thing. It also has implications for consciousness and neuroscience but that conversation can wait. There is still merit in scientific methods even though they are being wrongly directed/applied.
Quote from: Pimander on January 26, 2012, 06:53:49 AM
There is still merit in scientific methods even though they are being wrongly directed/applied.
Completely with you on that one, Pim!
I have been slowly doing that over the last 10 years (all the while 'hiding' my actions from my peers) and have come to a greater and greater understanding of 'things', not by dropping the Scientific Methods, but my applying them 'properly' and within context.
Here is to the rest of our Colleagues doing the same.
Ok, so if there is sentient life there, perhaps they are doing the same things as us - trying to figure out a viable way to send a recognizable signal.
Sooo, given that we don't know their level of technology and they don't know ours, perhaps they have been listening to us in some way for awhile?
Now, doesn't it seem like a coincidence that as of late we have been hearing strange sounds coming from the sky? If they are anything like us perhaps the message they are sending is simply a dicernable sound?
Maybe it's like the movie "Close Encounters" and simple sound is being used to let us know they know?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUcOaGawIW0
[ Side note: ]
[ Well, here's another WAG, how long have our television signals been broadcast out into space? I know I watched Close Encounters over 30 years ago on Public TV! ]
If we knew where and when these sounds were heard on our Planet, couldn't we check our planets rotation at the time the sounds were heard to see if these sounds might be coming from the direction of that Planet?
If at this point they have figured out how to listen for amplified sounds coming from our planet, we might want to get out the old Synthesizer & Lightboard to send a message out ASAP. If they do hear us, and have the tech to respond quickly, we might just get a fast response back...?
Quote from: starwarp2000 on January 26, 2012, 07:08:03 AM
Here is to the rest of our Colleagues doing the same.
Cheers. 8)
Quote from: Somamech on January 25, 2012, 06:47:01 PM
I've seen the effect of sound on reality as we think it is..never could replicate it though sadly :(
EDIT to Add to make things clear:
I could never replicate an odd sound experience I had noodling with an analog synth which caused a "white out" . One in a million hit to find that combo of sounds which melt reality right proper so to speak ;)
What you are talking about Soma, is called Phase Conjugate Sonics!
I don't know if you have heard of it, but there is also Phase Conjugate Optics, wherein, 4 laser beams are mixed using a Non-Linear Medium (like Plasma) and from the resultant Heterodyne (+, -, & Individual Freqs), all sorts of phenomena occur: Order out of Chaos, Energetic States with no Excitation (No cause and Effect) etc. etc.
In the Sonic type, the same thing occurs but this time using Piezo Transducers (The air being the Non-Linear Medium).
Because you used an Analog Synth you would have produced all the harmonics which are very small or non-existent in a Digital Synth.
Anyway, here a few links to check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_optics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_optics)
http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/Spatial/Spatial.htm (http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/Spatial/Spatial.htm)
http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/HRezBook/Chap1.pdf (http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/HRezBook/Chap1.pdf)
http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/webstuff/hr1/hr1.html (http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/webstuff/hr1/hr1.html)
Enjoy! ;D
Just a quick "heads up" to all posting and reading, this has
turned into an epic thread! Very educational and interesting.
I've learnt a great deal from this thread keep it coming :D
qwantum mechanics etc, ACE! love it.