China's "Jade Rabbit" separates from landerAn interesting vid/pic report on China's Moon Rover, as it moves onto the surface, with additional information relative to what the equipment is to do on the Moon.
QuoteChina's "Jade Rabbit" separates from lander
BEIJING, Dec. 15 (Xinhua) -- China's first moon rover, Yutu, or Jade Rabbit, separated from the lander early on Sunday, several hours after the Chang'e-3 probe soft-landed on the lunar surface.
The six-wheeled rover touched the lunar surface at 4:35 a.m., leaving deep trace on the loose lunar soil. The process was recorded by the camera on the lander and the images were sent to the earth.
The transfer mechanism with Yutu aboard unlocked at 4:06 a.m. with one side reaching the moon's surface, allowing the rover to descend to the surface following a ladder mechanism.
After the separation, the rover and lander will take photos of each other and start their own scientific explorations.
Chang'e-3 landed on the moon's Sinus Iridum, or the Bay of Rainbows, at 9:11 p.m. Saturday, making China the third country in the world to carry out such a rover mission after the United States and former Soviet Union.
In ancient Chinese mythology, Yutu was the white pet rabbit of the lunar goddess Chang'e. The name for the rover was selected following an online poll that collected several million votes from people around the world.
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20131215/100540.shtml
China says Moon is BROWN
(http://cde.peru21.pe/ima/0/0/1/7/1/171942.jpg)
China Moon Landing: 'Jade Rabbit' Rover Basks in Lunar Bay of RainbowsQuoteChina's first-ever moon rover is driving on the lunar surface after successfully separating from its carrier lander to begin exploring its landing locale: the Bay of Rainbows.
The Chang'e 3 lunar lander reached the moon Saturday (Dec. 14) at about 9:12 p.m., Beijing time, making China only the third country in the world to achieve such a moon feat after the former Soviet Union and the United States. The lander also delivered the robotic rover Yutu ("Jade Rabbit") to the lunar surface to begin its months-long driving mission.
(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/JAQDM.Yp.c.bx1PTq6Pt7A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTQzNjtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz01NzU-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_US/News/SPACE.com/China_Moon_Landing_%27Jade_Rabbit%27-685a291965cab83e14d6d36bc28f7b96)
http://news.yahoo.com/china-moon-landing-39-jade-rabbit-39-rover-042039919.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sS9GqnDYAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sS9GqnDYAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMgpKwfbZGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMgpKwfbZGE
Quote from: zorgon on December 15, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
That is a snap shot from the Video :P
I know, and I also know that you shouldn't lie. :P
Quote from: zorgon on December 15, 2013, 06:55:51 PM
China says Moon is BROWN
(http://cde.peru21.pe/ima/0/0/1/7/1/171942.jpg)
I just got jumped on that other site for saying China told us the truth and NASA didn't. NASA had top-of-the-line cameras and gave us garbage. Imagine what they're sitting on.
China could be HOAXING us :D
Apparently listening to the video they don't have 'live feed' They said the rover is recording still shots and will transmit them later
WTF?
If what they say in their own video is true then what are the pictures they are showing us now? Simulations? :D That landing one above sure looks 'familiar' from the Apollo landings :D
Hey they hoaxed us in Shen Zhou 7... I will keep an eye on this one :D
Quote from: ArMaP on December 15, 2013, 08:09:50 PM
Source, please. :)
That is a snap shot from the Video :P
Okay here it is on MSM
China rover soft lands on the moon(http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn.com/amnews/i/4d/424c6235b2191ad56de6767527bb8/_h353_w628_m6_otrue_lfalse.jpg)
A picture of the moon's surface taken by the on-board camera of the lunar probe Chang'e-3QuoteChina's Chang'e 3 lander, named after a mythical Chinese goddess of the moon, has touched down on the moon.
BEIJING — China on Saturday successfully carried out the world's first soft landing of a space probe on the moon in nearly four decades, state media said, the next stage in an ambitious space program that aims to eventually put a Chinese astronaut on the moon.
The unmanned Chang'e 3 lander, named after a mythical Chinese goddess of the moon, touched down on Earth's nearest neighbor following a 12-minute landing process.
The probe carried a six-wheeled moon rover called "Yutu," or "Jade Rabbit," the goddess' pet. After landing Saturday evening on a fairly flat, Earth-facing part of the moon, the rover was slated to separate from the Chang'e eight hours later and embark on a three-month scientific exploration.
http://news.msn.com/science-technology/china-rover-soft-lands-on-the-moon
Quote from: ArMaP on December 15, 2013, 08:21:08 PM
I know, and I also know that you shouldn't lie. :P
"Saying it" in pictures is the same thing as "China says" in the USA A visual statement... not a lie. If you show me a picture of green fog on Mars you are saying their is green fog on mars :D
Quote from: zorgon on December 15, 2013, 08:40:20 PM
"Saying it" in pictures is the same thing as "China says" in the USA A visual statement... not a lie.
Not to me, unless they say that the image shows exactly what is there.
QuoteIf you show me a picture of green fog on Mars you are saying their is green fog on mars :D
No, I am showing you a picture of green fog (or something that you interpret as fog, unless I was the one saying it was fog), the green "fog" may be a result of making an image from three different filters at different times, so the green "fog" may be just a dust devil that was on that position when the photo used for the green channel was taken. :)
Doncha think that China has too much to gain from this mission, to risk it all with lies sure to be found out?? China is out to prove, and are proving, that they are no longer a third world country, while at the time the US is sliding into permanence in the third world.
It's embarrassing, isn't it?
Edit to add that the US has a bad habit of lying to its citizens, so I say it's a toss up as to who's telling the truth.
Quote from: VillageIdiot on December 15, 2013, 11:52:03 PM
It's embarrassing, isn't it?
Yes it is, and also very disgusting! But our president continues to apologize to the world for our "over-accomplishments" and our capitalistic ways!
Oh, great brown cheese. I was hoping it was yellow. It does kinda look look like it is a simulation. I want to see some more photos before making up my mind.[if that is possible now a days]
The Planetary Societey are doing an ok job tracking the footage from the wee little rabbit. They have been taking screenshots of the stationary images and animating them.
I will have to save them at a later date as I gotta head off to work.
Here's the whole list of blod post's on TPS:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/blog-archive.html?keywords=change-program
That actually felt pretty special watching the rover drive onto the moon. :)
And the picture quality! really impressive. so is it real or is it memorex?
Thanks Somamech. Some good information in that link. From that link, here is a YouTube video of the Chang'3 actual lunar approach and landing.
It is better if seen on full screen!
After watching this a few times, I will mention a couple of things:
-- starting at 4:15 minutes there is a dark area that shows up in the lower right corner. Not outstanding, but is just "different" from the general area.
-- as the landing begins, and as it gets nearer the surface, there is some sort of white raised looking piece/structure that can be seen, not far from the lander. And it can still be seen, after the landing. Just wondering?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaQTSTrbT3w
It was shot on a sound stage in Shanghai. It's going to be called 'The Big Boss 2'. Watch for the dubbing. It reely reely good. ;D
I ran the brown shot, I don't like it. I compared the 2 off the ramp shots. the second one is rotated 2 deg CCW and the center of the frame down 3 degrees. So the camera moved inbetween the 2 shots and the one of the rover looking back is Zoomed in on or a big time crop. I can not find any other new prints at this time.
Maybe the rover is sleeping. For being up there and on the surface for a day I would expect more than 1 rover photo of mommy. Without knowing the data on the cameras it is hard to get any math right. The only thing that should stay the same is the horizon. So we can rotate the photos to match it.
little data, few answers. It is now more on the web here than before. All the sites are showing the same thing and a lot of sites like Peggy are already calling it fake and made up. I will give it more time.
Deuem
Picture taken by Chang'e. (Received and x-fered by ESA)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/23s894i.jpg)
Quote from: WarToad on December 16, 2013, 01:47:11 PM
Picture taken by Chang'e. (Received and x-fered by ESA)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/23s894i.jpg)
Is it me or does the rover appear to have a lower resolution than the ground near it. ???
Quote from: ArMaP on December 16, 2013, 02:05:38 PM
Is it me or does the rover appear to have a lower resolution than the ground near it. ???
It might just be the pic I have. Copy of a copy kind of thing. I'll try t look for a better pic.
Also "brown moon" pic - appears to be taken in darkness with fairly poor artificial lighting. Yes? I think the orange-brown hue is just due to it being a substandard lighting pic.
On the earth looking photo. I checked the pixel sizes and they are the same for me. I do wonder about the sun angle on the shadow vs the sun. I need to know a lot about where the 2 bodies are in relation to the sun. To get a straight on shadow like that, the moon would have to be behind the earth on its orbit. Also we have the stupid problems of what is lighting up the tires. Reflective light? They should be black they are not in the light. Ok maybe a lot of bounce.
The biggest thing I am worried about is that for the first time I can not pick up any sunlight on the moon. The program loves the sun. Even on Mars I get it. I don't know if it is because the light is straight on but then if it was the sun should be behind the earth and blasting us. There are a lot of technical problems here and it seems to be a 3D max photo we are looking at. I don't think this photo is real. But I will leave the door open. 3D max can not reproduce the real sun. The entire surface shows gray for me. no real light....?
If you noticed in the apollo shots there were very long shadows because the moon was in the trailing position in orbit. High noon on the moon is only when it is behind the earth. The earth would be blacked out and a huge sun shine behind it. And in order to get this shot of the shade and the earth it is impossible. Someone made it me thinks! The entire photo. Is this a press release?
If we had good details on the camera, math could be used to see if the Earth is the right size. Right now it reminds me of the Apollo size but with a different lens the size should be different also.
Deuem
What I wonder is WHY China, India, and others are spending BILLIONS on going out into space , , , just to look at rocks !? ?!? !? That sure makes the USA and their partners in the ISS appear not to be telling everything.
Just watched the rover vid. Hmm the camera on the lander may be looking at the floor but is that another spot lit area/fake horizon? I mean if that area is lit up then why not everywhere else? horizon only a few meters away or what? It cant be bright as hell on that spot and compltes blackness elsewhere? Reminds me of the Apollo 11 landing. Tiny area lit up and nothing else beyond a few meters.
Or am I talking nonsense? lol
I too wonder about the size of the Earth in the photo. The earth is approximately 4X the diameter of the Moon, and thus about 16X the surface area. To me that shot of the Earth looks no bigger than the full moon we see when we "look up" in our night sky? ??? Just wondering?
Quote from: rdunk on December 16, 2013, 02:52:34 AM
Thanks Somamech. Some good information in that link. From that link, here is a YouTube video of the Chang'3 actual lunar approach and landing.
It is better if seen on full screen!
Your welcome mate!
The best thing is that at least some people are looking over this mission. It's bloody amazing that China has put a Rover on the Moon (supposedly) and a media blackout is basically occuring in western media.
Regardless of the who's, why's, and what have you's. This should be headline news and it's not here in Oz (Just reporting the gen media in my own locale..other locale's may differ?)
The decent footage look's almost odd in the sense of Google Moonish odd if you get my drift, but at least some of the footage of the rover in it's wee baby steps show some colour, along with what looks like damp soil where the rover first unloaded ???
We need more imagery thats sure :D
Dooey would have to veryify this as a means to search China as he is the dude on the ground so to speak ;)
Here's my process so far in digging a bit deeper into the Chinese Media.
1: Perform a Quick Character Search for Chang'e which brings up wikipedia. Our CHinese Character's don't work here on the forum due to unicode. But all the same we are only trying to find simple search terms for the next step to see where we end up in China LOL
2: Do a quick search for Chinese Search Engine's.
Result:
http://chineseseoshifu.com/blog/top-5-chinese-search-engines.html
3: Search Baidu using Simplified Chinese Character's.
4: Depending on what browser or plugin's you use one may see a translated version if you have it set-up in that manner to translate pages. Personally I use Google Chrome for translating but I'm sure there is a firefox plugin that perform's the exact same translation As to the translation..well it helps to understand Chinglis and Asian Culture I guess? But that is where Dooey and people who have asian connections come in here on Pegasus ;)
In using the Above simple search lesson I found this article:
http://news.cecb2b.com/info/20131216/1664587.shtml
Searching in other Language's is probably something that need's a good write up here and made into a sticky at some point in the near future.
Here's an image that's kinda interesting, but need's translating.
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/5wj7o.jpg)
Source:
http://news.hefei.cc/2013/1216/023140321_07.shtml
Here's a two image's which I flip into the pile of interesting.
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/LVkRF.jpg)
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/KbQGz.jpg)
SOURCE:
Was going to delete this link as a source due to the URL being fishy.. but I will put it back up.
http://sex025.com/a/news/2013/1216/72387.html
This Source looks a little better !
No right Click Save image though but we can get around that ;)
http://news.hefei.cc/2013/1216/023140321_04.shtml
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/2Q6c.jpg)
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/bDyK.jpg)
We need an orginal source for images thats for sure.. find the teet as they say :D
Why dontcha all sit down with mumma and have some of mom's apple pie LOL
Lunar Roving Vehicle Having Fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOfPWJC9QEc
LOL
Quote from: ArMaP on December 16, 2013, 02:05:38 PM
Is it me or does the rover appear to have a lower resolution than the ground near it. ???
LMAO That is supposed to be a real photo? Looks like NASA called them up and told them to stop using the Mars soil background and sent them old Apollo Hills footage
DAMN we REALLY need to do the hills thread :D
Quote from: Somamech on December 16, 2013, 07:20:28 PM
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/2Q6c.jpg)
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/bDyK.jpg)
We need an orginal source for images thats for sure.. find the teet as they say :D
So we have three pictures so far...
1) Mars Soil Brown
2) Greenish
3) NASA washed out Gray
Ummmm okay I need to go buy some popcorn
Quote from: zorgon on December 16, 2013, 07:36:38 PM
LMAO That is supposed to be a real photo?
And the shadows don't match the shadows on the video. :)
Quote from: ArMaP on December 16, 2013, 09:06:35 PM
And the shadows don't match the shadows on the video. :)
There is before "Rover Yutu donut" shadows, Rover Yutu sitting in the dounut shadows, and after "Rover Yutu makes the donut" shadows. Which are you referring to? ;)
Quote from: rdunk on December 16, 2013, 09:18:50 PM
There is before "Rover Yutu donut" shadows, Rover Yutu sitting in the dounut shadows, and after "Rover Yutu makes the donut" shadows. Which are you referring to? ;)
You forgot the shadows on the "photo" that was posted by
WarToad. :)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/image_zpsd07d0423.jpg)
A little clearer?
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/image_zpsee49457d.jpg)
Quote from: WarToad on December 16, 2013, 01:47:11 PM
Picture taken by Chang'e. (Received and x-fered by ESA)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/23s894i.jpg)
Where did you get that idea of that being a photo taken by Chang'e and received by ESA?
Will the real rover color please stand up. One time it is yellow, the next time it is white with a red flag. Maybe it is the sun shine.
So the caption for this photograph reads....
"Researchers work in the control room of the Chang'e-3 lunar probe after it landed on the moon and deployed a moon rover, at the Beijing Aerospace Control Center in Beijing. "
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/1387206646439_jpg-620x349_zps7522579a.jpg)
So why are these guys looking at a cgi picture on the centre screen? When the lander and rover have cameras?
Am i missing something here?
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on December 17, 2013, 10:43:59 AM
So why are these guys looking at a cgi picture on the centre screen? When the lander and rover have cameras?
Am i missing something here?
I suppose it's easier this way to get an idea of the relative positions of the lander and the rover.
Quote from: ArMaP on December 17, 2013, 01:58:15 PM
I suppose it's easier this way to get an idea of the relative positions of the lander and the rover.
Yea your right. i thought that as soon as i posted it.
silly me.
http://www.ecns.cn/video/2013/12-17/92891.shtml (http://www.ecns.cn/video/2013/12-17/92891.shtml)
try it. I don't know if this is the video posted before because I can't see it.
Scientific equipment aboard Chang'e-3 starts working.
A today's Chinese news article about some of the facts of the Rover/Lander's scientific equipment beginning to operate, with some information of what Chang'3 will study.
http://www.ecns.cn/2013/12-17/92838.shtml
Five of the eight pieces of scientific equipment aboard Chang'e-3 lunar probe have started to observe space, the Earth and the Moon, a Chinese scientist said on Monday.[Special coverage]
They have entered working mode and telescopes and cameras have produced clear images, Zou Yongliao, a scientist with the Chinese Academy of Sciences, said at a press conference.
Comprising a lander and rover Yutu, (Jade Rabbit) Chang'e-3 soft-landed on the Moon on Saturday evening. Yutu later separated from the lander and rolled to moon surface earlier Sunday. In ancient Chinese mythology, Yutu was the white pet rabbit of the lunar goddess Chang'e.
The mission makes China the third country after the Soviet Union and the United Statesto soft land a spacecraft on lunar soil.
The lander and Yutu each carries four scientific instruments to conduct Moon-based observation, Zou said, adding the lander's cameras took photos of the Moon during its descent.
Yutu and the lander took photos of each other Sunday night through the lander's landform camera and Yutu's panoramic camera. The color images, transmitted live, showed the Chinese national flag on Yutu.
Yutu's radar started working Sunday night to test the structure of lunar soil, according to Zou.
"Chang'e-3 will study the Moon's landforms, geological structure, substance, and potentially exploitable resources," he said, adding, "the lander will observe the Earth's plasmasphere through telescopes."
Scientists from Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan have participated in the Chang'e missions, and some of the data can be shared by scientists and tech savvy enthusiasts all over the world, Zou added.
Chang'e-3 is part of the second phase of China's lunar program, which includes orbiting, landing and returning to the Earth. It follows the success of the Chang'e-1 and Chang'e-2 missions in 2007 and 2010.
Well this is the Teet LOL
http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n1081/index.html
I would apprecite feedback on load time of this website as it's very slow to load here in Oz. ::)
Yea Som, very slow here in the uk too.
found this one 2.
http://english.cntv.cn/special/lunarmission/index.shtml
Somamech, this loaded very quickly for me. I did take a little while to spot the "English" button over to the left in the header. :) Appears to have a great deal of news/"information" on all of their space stuff.
Good work mate ! 8)
Nice pic of the Men In Black shaking hands in your link :)
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/6T72u.jpg)
Ahh thanks Rdunk!
So two slow load-times from UK and Oz and one quick from the States.
Its weird a check, but I have always got slow load time's from any english site in Taiwan too whilst being in Oz.
Wow this Pic is Gold :D
As far as I can tell from the caption on the image... it appears this is a formal press conference announcing the launch. What I think is gold about this image is that even China are very clearly stating the Mil. Not some NASA hippy space rubbish :D
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/XlxRC.jpg)
SOURCE:
http://english.cntv.cn/special/lunarmission/index.shtml
EDIT to add link to source... Plus a reminder to us that we need to search those Characters which translate into english that say:
State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence, P.R.C.
Oki Doki this is Odd :o
I was checking Space.com for info on the Launch/Rover Mission and they said Jade Rabbit landed in the Bay of Rainbow's as evidenced here in this screenshot:
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/O6cqo.png)
SOURCE ARTICLE of my Screen Selfie:
China Lands On The Moon: Historic Robotic Lunar Landing Includes 1st Chinese Rover
http://www.space.com/23968-china-moon-rover-historic-lunar-landing.html
Now I thought Space.com was reputable website... But it Seem's Wikipedia has another slant on the Landing Location regarding the Jade Rabbit.
According to Wikipedia the Little Rabbit is not located in the Bay of Rainbow's, but infact it's located in Mare Imbrium?
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/peWFH.png)
SOURCE for Selfie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinus_Iridum
So Space.com and wikipedia differ in where the landing occured as evidenced in my Selfies :D
My understanding is Sinus Iridum ("Bay of Rainbows") is a region in the northern part of Mare Imbrium ("Sea of Showers"). I think people are getting a little sloppy with language.
Edit -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinus_Iridum
Sinus Iridum (Latin for "Bay of Rainbows") is a plain of basaltic lava that forms a northwestern extension to the Mare Imbrium on Earth's moon
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xXnIGRxDyQ0/TCB3Jbe2T1I/AAAAAAAACn8/A1u09hGAeCM/s1600/IMG_2636_edited-1.jpg)
Edit #2 - Found Chang'e landing zone
(http://mit.zenfs.com/1555/2013/12/Sirus-Iridum-Chang-e-3.jpg)
So, yea. It's right on the edge of both. Or, actually in both? LOL!
Edit #3 -
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5523/11407362233_a898601643_o.jpg)
QuoteThe precise landing zone of China's Chang'e-3, with the Yutu rover deployed, seems to be in the middle of nowhere. From the standpoint of planetary science, however, and the cause of acquiring a better understanding of the formation of the Imbrium basin, the surface and below and very interesting. Pushed LROC WAC GLD100 mosaic (100 meter per pixel resolution) [NASA/GSFC/Arizona State University].
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7405/11385568635_ba2e227b3b_z.jpg)
QuoteBoxes indicate areas in Chang'e-3 descent images. The spacecraft is probably in, or very near, the smallest box. Field of view 4700 meters wide, from LROC NAC M181302794L orbit 11832, January 15, 2012; angle of incidence 71.7° at 1.57 meters resolution, from 158.79 km [NASA/GSFC/ASU/JHUAPL].
Good work WT 8)
My point is that one website is a self stated "Authority on Space" which a lot of people take for fact, and the other is an "Authority Fact Master" on everything known to the universe :D
So in essence people who either make a lot of money off our view's via clicking their website, or other's who garner donations, they both share something in common... They both have teams of people supposedly sorting fact's who cannot even get fact's correct!
Now if it was my full time job to sort through the info I would make sure I reported it correctly with disclaimer's.
Ok my wifey said this in regards to the Charachter's in this image "Military Technology Division"
She also said this could called be called defenese department or something like that under her breath whilst I am harrasing her getting ready for work LOL
(http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/XlxRC.jpg)
So NADA Nasa Hippy Crap for the people there. DOT MIL all the way and why we wont see any truth unless we prod a little ;)
Oddly though...
http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/lro-finding-change-3.html
How come NASA use greyscale imagery yet the Navy have nice Colour which correlate's with fact ?
Well seeing this website is called the Livingmoon...
Anyone Recall why one may be interested in this mission and the "Hunt"
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Moon_Images.html
THE LIVING MOON
The Enigmas on the Moon
QuoteWelcome to The Living Moon
presented by John Lear and Ron Schmidt
Before proceeding to our presentation it is imperative that you forget all preconceived notions of what you think you know. Enter here with an open mind and be prepared to be amazed. We do not expect all that enter this portal to be convinced that everything we say is true, but take a moment to examine the evidence we provide, and think on it for a spell. We guarantee that you will never look at the old black and white NASA moon the same way again.
For decades you have been shown that the Moon is a dull lifeless world, in fact organizations like the USGS and NASA have even gone out of their way to keep this myth alive with images like the one below...
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon7/Full_Moon/ISD_highres_AS11_AS11-44-6552Small.png)
Quote from: Somamech on December 17, 2013, 06:05:48 PM
So two slow load-times from UK and Oz and one quick from the States.
And a fast load time from Portugal. :)
Quote from: Somamech on December 17, 2013, 09:49:42 PM
How come NASA use greyscale imagery yet the Navy have nice Colour which correlate's with fact ?
Navy imagery? ???
Yes, thanks WT for the update. just bumping this thread for future reference.......
Hey, Armap (or anyone) what prog do you use to make animated GIF's?
Sorry, i'm a bit 'technically challenged' LOL....
PWM, I have never tried, but a quick search turns up several. This one looks interesting!
Good luck!!
http://makeagif.com/
Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on December 17, 2013, 11:38:50 PM
Hey, Armap (or anyone) what prog do you use to make animated GIF's?
I use either Animation Shop (come with an old Paint Shop Pro 6 I have) or GIMP, which has the advantage of allowing more than basic editing. :)
Quote from: Somamech on December 17, 2013, 05:47:20 PM
Well this is the Teet LOL
http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n1081/index.html (http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n1081/index.html)
I would apprecite feedback on load time of this website as it's very slow to load here in Oz. ::)
haha, for once, I can get a web site instantaly and in the clear. Maybe a few milliseconds
Quote from: WarToad on December 16, 2013, 01:47:11 PM
Picture taken by Chang'e. (Received and x-fered by ESA)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/23s894i.jpg)
That picture is on an article on this site before the landing occured.
http://www.omega-level.net/2013/12/02/china-launches-lunar-rover-all-exploring-the-moon-and-such/ (http://www.omega-level.net/2013/12/02/china-launches-lunar-rover-all-exploring-the-moon-and-such/)
Another shot of this rover from here:
11/26/2013 07:52 AM
(http://goldsea.com/Text/images/10458.jpg)
http://goldsea.com/Text/index.php?id=14816 (http://goldsea.com/Text/index.php?id=14816)
http://io9.com/chinese-rover-diorama-shows-europe-being-nuked-1484932947?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
and then there's this weirdness
by Emily Lakdawalla
Today there was a lengthy press briefing by several members of the Chang'e 3 science team. A complete transcript was posted in Chinese. I have run it through two machine translators (Google and a Chinese one, fanyi.baidu.com) and found it to be quite informative, not just about the mission but also about attitudes about Chinese space exploration and foreign cooperation.
Participants included:
•The host, Zhang Tengyue;
•Wu Weiren, chief designer of the lunar exploration program;
•Liu Jianzhong, deputy chief designer of the launch vehicle;
•Zheng He, deputy chief designer of the lander; and
•Su Yan, deputy chief designer of the ground segment (who seemed to be speaking for the science team).
Wu Weiren remarked that everything went so much more smoothly than they had expected. [14:18]
Zhang Tengyue talked about the confusion felt by himself and Ouyang Ziyuan on the live broadcast, when they were expecting to see pictures of the lander from the rover, but they did not. I smiled when I read this because I had likewise been confused about there being no pictures of the lander on the CCTV live broadcast; I wound up locating a photo of the lander on a forum after it had been shared on the Chinese-language broadcast. It was funny to know that he and Ouyang had been as confused as I. Zhang talked about exchanging handwritten notes with Ouyang during the broadcast to decide whether they should ask about the photo of the lander? Ouyang advised him not to. [14:23]
Wu explained that the reason they showed photos of the rover but not the lander on the English-language broadcast was because they were considering the historical importance of the photos, and were particularly concerned about showing the images of the Chinese national flag on the Moon. Since the rover was to the north of the lander and both were in the northern hemisphere, the Sun was to the south, so the rover (and hence the flag) were well illuminated by the Sun as seen from the lander, but badly lit as seen from the rover. So they chose, during the live broadcast, to transmit photos of the rover with its flag, since they were better lit. They showed one photo that had been transmitted prior to the live broadcast, and then a second that had been transmitted during the broadcast. [14:25] I hadn't figured out until this morning that the English-language broadcast did, in fact, show two different photos of the rover from the lander, with a significant amount of shadow motion between them; since shadows move so slowly on the Moon, the first image must have been taken quite a while before the second one.
Zheng He reported on the current status of the lander. As best as I can do with the translation: "Change 3 is working very well on the Moon. All conditions very good, nominal. It has already begun to do extreme ultraviolet optical imaging work."
The host asked about the surprising proximity of a crater to the lander. Zheng responds (again, my best translation): "After we landed and saw the camera image [of the crater], we felt very lucky, but also very successful....This picture shows us right in front of a pit, with stone blocks right in front of the lander. But underneath the lander's feet the ground is very flat. This shows that the autonomous navigation and obstacle avoidance that we designed has succeeded, and we landed on a safe area. The crater is ten meters away from the lander; we can navigate around it, our plans are not affected by it." [14:39]
Zheng talked about wanting to impress on people that, as easy as they made it seem, the landing was very difficult, for two reasons. The first: "It's an irreversible process. In the past, we have launched spacecraft into orbit around Earth. Celestial laws govern its path; it won't crash if there is a small problem. Once it goes over a ground station, we can control and operate it." She says that, by contrast, Chang'e 3 had two "irreversible" moments, lunar orbit insertion and landing, where they had only one chance to get it right; this was a first for a Chinese mission. [14:42]
The second thing that made the Chang'e landing difficult, she said, was the fact that they could not be certain what they would find in the landing site. Past lunar orbiters could assume the Moon a sphere and navigate accordingly. (This isn't quite true; she's oversimplifying.) But for the landing, "the lunar surface is undulating, and this has a great impact on the control of our landing process. And the final landing site could be soft soil or it could be on hard rock; this has a great impact on our landing cushion. We also wonder what kind of dust the landing will produce." She talks about how they had to design the lander and its software to "overcome the uncontrollability of these uncertainties." [14:47] I can imagine the JPL engineers who designed Curiosity's landing system nodding in agreement with all of this! Predicting all the uncertain aspects of a landing, and making your lander smart enough to diagnose and deal with all the possible different situations it may encounter, is what makes it so difficult. She goes on to talk at length about the problem of lunar dust and the difficulties that Lunokhod 2 faced because of it.
Next Su Yan talked about the scientific work being undertaken by Chang'e 3. They mostly can't operate during lunar night because of the intensely cold temperatures, so they perform scientific observations during the lunar day. Right now, it's a full Moon, which means that from the point of view of the surface of the Moon, Earth is dark; this is the best time for Chang'e 3 to conduct astronomical observations. She talked about testing the Yutu ground-penetrating radar on glaciers in the Qilian mountains, and clearly seeing the glacier and rock layering there; she looks forward to lunar data. [14:55]
Su talked about receiving data on Earth from both lander and rover, about monitoring the state of the payload, and of converting the raw data received from the spacecraft to "data products released to the whole of China and even the whole world of scientists to use." [14:57]
Su said that six of the eight instruments are now operating. This list I'll actually copy from an English-language article about the briefing: "Except for the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer and the visible and near-infrared imaging spectrometer, the instruments have all been activated and are undergoing tests and adjustments."
There was some discussion of the value of the scientific experiments being conducted by Chang'e 3, and then the briefing was opened to questions from the media. The first question was of the inevitable "how will this benefit Earth" variety. I found it interesting that Wu Weiren's lengthy response talked about the return on investment achieved through the Apollo missions, stating that for each American dollar invested into the Apollo program, 7 to 15 dollars were returned, by different estimates. Wu also talked about how, as a fraction of its GDP, Chinese investment in space is very small; and also pointed out that, to date, China's planetary exploration efforts have seen 100% success. Then they discussed how technologies and materials developed for the Chang'e program will eventually find civilian applications. [15:09]
Then, a very interesting statement from the moderator. He brought up the whitehouse.gov petition initiated by a 6-year-old boy to "Increase NASA funding. So we can discover new worlds, protect us from danger and to make dreams come true." The petition has been all over science and technology news this week, but I was still surprised to hear it brought up in this Chinese forum. He talked about China suddenly realizing this month that the South China Sea was important to China after 70 years of ignoring it, and remarked that it would be short-sighted of China not to go to the Moon, to let others go there instead. [15:11]
A reporter asked about Mars exploration. Again, a very interesting response, from Wu Weiren. He talked about how India had sent an orbiter to the Moon, an orbiter that failed to achieve its design lifetime of two years in orbit. They have launched a spacecraft to Mars, he said, but if I understand the translations correctly he seemed to be expressing reservations that they would be able to survive the long trip, based upon their past performance: "the future is uncertain." By contrast, he said, China's approach is "comprehensive," systematic, methodical, "every step laying a solid foundation for the next step." India, in contrast, is "leaping, mainly wanting to show strength." Perhaps, he implies, they are overreaching. "We are not competing with them, although they may want to compete with us; the mentality is not the same." I must admit, if I were Indian, I'd be a little affronted by these words! But the points he makes are fair. Wu goes on to say that China already established the technological capability to explore Mars with the success of Chang'e 1 and 2; it would be "easy." It's simply not their goal at present. A strong statement. [15:17]
Another reporter asked about Chang'e 5 and the plans to launch it from a new launch facility. Liu Jianzhong spoke about how Chang'e 5 will require the new Long March V rocket and will need to be launched from a new site in Wenchang, Hainan. The advantage of the new site is that it is at a lower latitude, 19 degrees as opposed to 28.5 for Xichang, which launches a spacecraft with more energy; also, Wenchang will be a coastal launch facility with launches over the ocean, avoiding the problem of rocket parts falling on populated areas. Finally, Long March V will be a five-meter-diameter rocket, and China's inland railways can only accommodate payloads 3.5 meters wide. [15:22]
The same reporter inquired about foreign cooperation and data sharing. Su Yan said that there are cooperative agreements in place with ESA, and that the Chang'e 1 and 2 data have already been made available to them. "NASA cooperation with us is more difficult," NASA is not permitted to host information about Chinese missions on their websites, and it is not possible to cooperate officially. But, she said, she works for the National Astronomical Observatory, which has very large cooperation with foreign countries. [15:25]
Wu Weiren said the project had set up a special committee on applications of the data, with the goal of sharing the data. He spoke of sharing data "in accordance with the principles of classification: level one, level two, level three, level four" -- if I am not mistaken, this is talking about sharing data products in accordance with the schemes originally laid out by NASA's Planetary Data System and adopted by ESA's Planetary Science Archive. So I was very happy to read that. "In addition, we and Europe also have some cooperation," and I think he was discussing the support of the Chang'e 3 mission by Europe's deep-space communications network. [15:26]
Then Wu went on to talk about NASA's specific interests in Chang'e data sharing. It's clear that NASA expressed interest in information about the Chang'e 3 lander's fuel expenditure during landing, which has direct application to the LADEE mission, as I've discussed before. NASA also asked for Chang'e 3 tracking data, so that the LADEE mission would know where and when Chang'e 3 was disturbing the lunar atmosphere. "But we also asked [NASA] to provide data [in return], and [NASA] did not agree. The U.S. Congress passed a resolution that stated that NASA cannot cooperate with China for fear we will steal their technology." If I understand correctly, I think he went on to say that in a way the American refusal to share information with China has helped China's space program, forcing China to develop their own technology, their own strength. [15:28]
I will note here that Representative Frank Wolf, the author of the policy that prevents NASA from cooperating with the Chinese space agency, announced today that he will not be seeking reelection. Perhaps this policy will be reexamined soon, and the LADEE team will be able to exchange information with the Chang'e 3 team that will enable better scientific results from both missions.
A reporter asked: what about cooperation with other nations? Wu Weiren responded that the European Space Agency is "increasingly interested in cooperation with China," because of the rapid development of Chinese capability and the long planning horizon for European missions. He said that this shows that other space powers now recognize China as being at their level. [15:29]
A reporter mentioned China's recent launch failure, their first since 2011, and asked about the public's tolerance for failure in the space program. Wu said that "aerospace is a high-risk business; failure is inevitable." He said they do the best they can to plan for problems; on Chang'e 3 they had planned for 200 different fault scenarios, but wound up needing to use none of them. "If we do fail, we will feel a lot of pressure, but I believe that people across the country can understand." [15:35]
Zhang He talked about preventing failure through the application of new technologies unavailable to Soviet or Apollo lunar landers, including the laser ranging to determine a flat place to land, and the highly accurate, variable-thrust landing engine. [15:38] (Both translation services insist upon translating the Mandarin term for "newton," the unit of thrust, as "bovine" or "cattle," which makes discussion of the "7500 bovine variable thrust engine" amusing.)
Wu Weiren also talked about the rover having autonomous navigation capability. The Soviet Lunokhods required television monitors and continuous round-the-clock shifts of drivers to manually tele-operate them. Wu said that Yutu can be operated in this mode, but that there is also a "completely independent operation mode" in which it can be navigated to waypoints. It can avoid obstacles using both long- and near-distance stereo vision through navigational cameras on the mast and hazard avoidance cameras on the body, just like NASA's Mars rovers. "If a stone is too big, the rover will automatically turn, then go around it." [15:41]
A reporter asked about the video of the landing, in which the lander pauses, slides to the side, then descends. Zhang He responded that the lander was able to perform up to three assessments of landing site suitability with laser ranging, but that the computer wound up needing only one assessment to locate a safe spot to land. [15:42]
There was some more discussion of Chang'e 5 and Chang'e 4, and a question about when we'd see Chang'e 3 science results, and counsel of patience. I'm sure there's a lot more in this discussion that I missed, but it's getting late and my mind is beginning to blur in the attempt to read and understand the machine translations. I welcome you to download my comparison document and try interpreting some of it for yourself! All in all, a wide-ranging and surprisingly frank discussion.
All well and good, but I still want to see more pictures! I have seen no new ones yet. Yutu is sleeping right now, because it cannot operate during the heat of lunar noon; it's supposed to start working again on December 23. Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter will attempt an image on December 24.
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/12172045-change-3-update.html
So thats why there are no new pictures! and there wont be untill at least the 23rd!
OR, I prefer my own explanation, that is that the Moon People have the poor thing cornered, and their poking it with moon sticks!
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/sommeillerboringmachine_zpsad0bea93.jpg)
Just a thought :D
Nice work Elvis ;)
Very balanced article,nice translation gold for that.
quite the achievement really,remember beagle? how embarrassing and all that money wasted.
That should've been a moon shot not Mars. trying to run before we can walk ::)
I agree though MORE PICTURES!!!
(moon sticks!!!!) LOL
Thanx stealthy it was already translated mate.
Hey have you seen the talking boat on funny pic thread?
Thats the same noise you make when youve been caught shoplifting and your legging it. ;D
Yes Elvis, your post makes for a good read about some of the thinking in China's space program. I thought the comments relative to NASA's relationship/non-involvement with China was rather interesting, and telling! Of course, "NSA" must now be all over trying to dig out all of the information China is not actually sharing anyway! :)
Quote from: rdunk on December 18, 2013, 05:22:47 PM
Yes Elvis, your post makes for a good read about some of the thinking in China's space program. I thought the comments relative to NASA's relationship/non-involvement with China was rather interesting, and telling! Of course, "NSA" must now be all over trying to dig out all of the information China is not actually sharing anyway! :)
Yes Rdunk Presicley,
and there seems to be an awful lot of "downtime" going on dont you think? is the rover sleeping as they suggest? or is it filming as we speak?
whats going on up there.....
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on December 18, 2013, 05:34:16 PM
Yes Rdunk Presicley,
and there seems to be an awful lot of "downtime" going on dont you think? is the rover sleeping as they suggest? or is it filming as we speak?
whats going on up there.....
Well, that is anybody's guess. I have looked at 3 different China English news places, and don't really find any new information. Of course, we probably should expect not so much happening the first few days, just because this is all new ground for them, and for this equipment. If we went back to the NASA Rovers operations after landing, they were probably short on doing much for a few days too.
Quote from: ArMaP on December 17, 2013, 11:34:22 PM
And a fast load time from Portugal. :)
Hey thanks mate !
any reccomendations in regards to a good trace route program ?
Edit for spelling and I blame D for making me LOL a tear LOL ( I mean that in a good way too)
Quote from: deuem on December 18, 2013, 12:02:47 AM
haha, for once, I can get a web site instantaly and in the clear. Maybe a few milliseconds
Dooyey Man... That made me chuckle !
What an odd world we live in, some western nutter's spy on everyone, other's ban a few websites from the spy nutter's... and other's just kill a general and televise it LOL
LMFAO ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Somamech on December 18, 2013, 07:26:02 PM
any recommendations in regards to a good trace route program ?
Try this one Soma:
http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/visual-tracert/ (http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/visual-tracert/)
Shove http://www.cnsa.gov.cn in the Remote Address box and viola! :)
Try the proxy Host one too
Quote from: Somamech on December 18, 2013, 07:26:02 PM
Hey thanks mate !
any reccomendations in regards to a good trace route program ?
Edit for spelling and I blame D for making me LOL a tear LOL ( I mean that in a good way too)
If you are on a windows machine you have a good trace program in MSDOS. Goto to the Start menu, slide up and pick "run type in cmd. When the msdos window pops up simply type the following tracert www.thelivingmoon.com (http://www.thelivingmoon.com) <enter> The trace Rt "cmd will start up and show you all the ping hops. Easy to do. This is where I see it die before reaching the location. You can then run goggle or another browser to see where the ping is. Most willl toss up a map and location. haha, my stop has been removed now from the map and the location is just in the middle of an empty field, Must be a ghost city. What ever website you type in after the tracert <space> function will be traced. Hope that helps, I guess a Mac must have this also?
Deuem
Quote from: deuem on December 19, 2013, 12:27:59 AM
Goto to the Start menu, slide up and pick "run type in cmd.
Or press the Windows logo key + "r" to get that "run" window. :)
NASA is doing damage control today: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
I am not seeing much news coming out today on what is happening with China's rover. I did find this article on the mission that does have several related interesting comments relative to their commitment to their "ambitious space programme".
One of the more interesting statements, "With the US exploration moribund at best, that opens a window for China to be perceived as the global technology leader.................."! :-[
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Yutu_robotic_rover_begins_lunar_mission_999.html
Yutu robotic rover begins lunar mission
by Staff Writers
Beijing (AFP) Dec 16, 2013
China's Jade Rabbit rover sent back its first pictures from the moon, as officials on Monday lauded the first lunar soft landing in nearly four decades as a step forward for "mankind as a whole".
"Exploration of outer space is an unremitting pursuit of mankind," China's space agency, the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence (SASTIND) said in a statement.
The successful mission reflects "the new glory of China to scale the peaks in world science and technology areas," it said, adding it was committed to exploring and using space "for peaceful purposes".
The space agency also offered to step up cooperation with other countries in the field "to utilise outer space and benefit mankind as a whole."
Images released by China's official news agency Xinhua show the lander, covered in golden foil, standing in the Sinus Iridum or Bay of Rainbows, its solar panels open to generate power.
The silver rover is named Yutu or Jade Rabbit after the pet of Chang'e, the goddess of the moon in Chinese mythology.
The imprints of its tracks in the dark soil of the lunar surface can clearly be seen after it rotated to proudly display a red Chinese flag to the camera.
China first sent an astronaut into space a decade ago and is the third country to complete a lunar rover mission after the United States and the former Soviet Union.
The landing is a key step forward in Beijing's ambitious military-run space programme, which include plans for a permanent orbiting station by 2020 and eventually sending a human to the moon.
The projects are seen as a symbol of China's rising global stature and technological advancement, as well as the Communist Party's success in reversing the fortunes of the once-impoverished nation.
The central government said the mission was "a milestone in the development of China's aerospace industry under the leadership of... Comrade Xi Jinping".
Chinese state-run media have covered the mission extensively, and in an editorial headlined "Great moon mission", the China Daily said its significance "goes far beyond earning the country the name of a technological powerhouse".
The Yutu was deployed at 4:35 am (2035 GMT Saturday), several hours after the Chang'e-3 probe landed on the moon, said the official news agency Xinhua, and the photo session began at about 11:42 pm after the rover moved a few metres away from the lander.
The colour images were transmitted live to the Beijing Aerospace Control Center, where President Xi and Premier Li Keqiang watched the broadcast.
Ma Xingrui, chief commander of China's lunar programme, declared the mission a "complete success" after the photographs showed the lander and rover were working, Xinhua said.
'Made in China' makes it to the moon
The potential to extract the moon's resources has been touted as a key driver behind Beijing's space programme, with the celestial body believed to hold uranium, titanium, and other minerals.
But the phenomenal cost of missions means such projects are not economically viable, experts say.
"China wants to go to the moon for geostrategic reasons and domestic legitimacy," said China space expert Joan Johnson-Freese, a professor of national security affairs at the US Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island.
"With the US exploration moribund at best, that opens a window for China to be perceived as the global technology leader -- though the US still has more, and more advanced, assets in space."
SASTIND spokesman Wu Zhijian admitted that "despite current progress, China still lags behind space giants like the United States and Russia in many aspects".
"We need to work harder and move faster," he told a briefing.
News of the landing quickly made an impact on China's hugely popular Internet message boards, topping the list of searched items.
"Myth has become reality at this moment," wrote one user Monday. "'Made in China' has made it to the moon."
Before the landing -- the most difficult part of the mission -- the probe slowed down from 1,700 metres (5,610 feet) per second and then hovered for about 20 seconds, using sensors and 3D imaging to identify a flat area.
Thrusters were then deployed 100 metres from the lunar surface to gently guide the craft into position. The landing process started at 9:00 pm on Saturday and lasted for about 12 minutes.
The rover will spend about three months exploring the moon's surface.
It can climb slopes of up to 30 degrees and travel at 200 metres per hour, according to the Shanghai Aerospace Systems Engineering Research Institute.
Ahah but I've never been caught shoplifting ;)
Far to 'stealthy' bwhaaaa...........sigh
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on December 18, 2013, 11:29:24 AM
by Emily Lakdawalla
Emily Lakdawalla was the one who pointed out that the one photo they released on Change'e 1 was a Clementine forgery... When China said "No no it not fake... just same area...see? there is a new crater" It was Emily that pointed out the 'new crater' was a stitching overlay error :D
Here it is... The old NASA image was already on Google moon even LOL
(http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/moon-2.jpg)
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/12/06/china-%E2%80%9Cbeautiful-eyes%E2%80%9D-questioned-the-new-crater-in-chinas-first-moon-picture/
QuoteThe author (Beautiful Eyes) is fantastic. It's certainly an image stitching error of Chang'e-1 personnel. After a simple shift by Photoshop, the picture taken by Chang'e showed the same lunar surface with Google Moon.
(http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/moon-7.jpg)
It seems Beautiful Eyes's question to the new crater has evoked a new surge of controversy about the first moon picture photographed by Chang'e probe on China's Internet. However, the mainstream media of China still keep silent on the new question. A report titled by "Ouyang Ziyuan Refuted the suspicion that 'the first image sent back by Chang'e-I copied the picture from US' " is still available in Xinhua's Chinese version website.
(http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-11/26/xinsrc_3621104261350828227693.jpg)
Quote"So, in a way, the story has come full circle. The Chang'e image isn't a fake as far as I can tell; my personal opinion, based upon the evidence I was able to dig up, is that the Chinese do have an orbiter at the Moon, and that it is producing really beautiful images that are a great improvement over Clementine. But the one released image is a processed product, and was altered slightly (the seams were blended away) to make it pretty. This alteration made it difficult for a scientist to realize that what appeared to be a new feature was in fact an artifact." - Emily Lakdawalla Planetary Society
Seems I actually finished this page :D
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/02files/CNSA_Chang_e_1_Lunar_Orbiter.html
Quote from: VillageIdiot on December 19, 2013, 12:21:52 PM
NASA is doing damage control today: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
OMFG!!!!!That just made my day....
(http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1312/colormoon_francsics_apod900.jpg) (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1312/colormoon_francsics_apod.jpg)
QuoteA Colorful Moon
Image Credit & Copyright: László Francsics
Explanation: The Moon is normally seen in subtle shades of grey or yellow. But small, measurable color differences have been greatly exaggerated to make this telescopic, multicolored, moonscape captured during the Moon's full phase. The different colors are recognized to correspond to real differences in the chemical makeup of the lunar surface. Blue hues reveal titanium rich areas while orange and purple colors show regions relatively poor in titanium and iron. The familiar Sea of Tranquility, or Mare Tranquillitatis, is the blue area in the upper right corner of the frame. White lines radiate across the orange-hued southern lunar highlands from 85 kilometer wide ray crater Tycho at bottom left. Above it, darker rays from crater Copernicus extend into the Sea of Rains (Mare Imbrium) at the upper left. Calibrated by rock samples from the Apollo missions, similar multicolor images from spacecraft have been used to explore the Moon's global surface composition.
Minerals.....mmmmm good!
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0203/moon_gal_big.jpg (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0203/moon_gal_big.jpg)Ya that's one crazy pic ;)
(http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0203/moon_gal_big.jpg)
Well do tell, how is this making your day. It looks like Ted Turner colorized the Moon. The colors are just a palet made from gray samples. What am I missing? Is that your photo they used?
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/
Hey Z this is her blog. It's worth following for updates.
Elvis.
Quote from: deuem on December 20, 2013, 05:13:18 AM
Well do tell, how is this making your day. It looks like Ted Turner colorized the Moon. The colors are just a palet made from gray samples. What am I missing? Is that your photo they used?
Seems to me that Ron is referring to the apparent large amount of titanium the hues of blue in the image, seem to indicate that the moon possesses.
Quote from: zorgon on December 20, 2013, 04:33:05 AMBlue hues reveal titanium rich areas
Old news.. different color intensity tho :P
QuoteA new map of the moon has uncovered a trove of areas rich in precious titanium ore, with some lunar rocks harboring 10 times as much of the stuff as rocks here on Earth do.
(http://i.space.com/images/i/000/012/589/i02/moon-map-titanium-ore.jpg?1318293528)
QuoteThis lunar mosaic shows the boundary between Mare Serenitatis and Mare Tranquillitatis. The relative blue color of the Tranquillitatis mare is due to higher abundances of the titanium-bearing mineral ilmenite.
http://www.space.com/13247-moon-map-lunar-titanium.html (http://www.space.com/13247-moon-map-lunar-titanium.html)
Pareidolia = I really like the sitting-up dog that is in the color pic of the Moon!! Anyone else see it? Instead of "the man in the "Moon, it is "the doggie in the Moon"! :)
Quote from: RUSSO on December 20, 2013, 06:03:07 AM
(http://i.space.com/images/i/000/012/589/i02/moon-map-titanium-ore.jpg?1318293528)
http://www.space.com/13247-moon-map-lunar-titanium.html (http://www.space.com/13247-moon-map-lunar-titanium.html)
BORG SHIPS IN HIVE FORMATION ON MOON!!
Quote from: stealthyaroura
BORG SHIPS IN HIVE FORMATION ON MOON!!
Haha... ;D
Well... Maybe they are there to mine all that titanium before we do it. :o
You never know how far the (jade) rabbit hole goes. :P
LMAO ;D
Post it on ATS & wait for Phage to arrive :)
Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on December 20, 2013, 08:05:35 PM
LMAO ;D
Post it on ATS & wait for Phage to arrive :)
I hate that guy. They worship him like he's a god or something.
Quote from: VillageIdiot on December 20, 2013, 09:10:51 PM
I hate that guy. They worship him like he's a god or something.
Hate him for what he does, not for what other people do. :)
Chang'e 3 news, Xinhua reports that the rover roused today from its noontime "siesta," a few days earlier than originally planned. The rover hibernates over the high temperatures of lunar noon and cold temperatures of lunar night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD1pBGDnpBI
http://youtu.be/oD1pBGDnpBI
http://v.qq.com/cover/c/ctklokz7zk0a9y3.html?vid=f0013ghuxv8&start=31
BEIJING, Dec. 20 (Xinhua) -- China's moon rover, Yutu (Jade Rabbit), continued exploring after a "nap", according to the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence on Friday.
At about 8:00 p.m. Beijing Time, the six-wheeled rover started moving again after shutting down its subsystems on Dec. 16.
Yutu has had to deal with direct solar radiation raising the temperature to over 100 degrees centigrade on his sunny side, while his shaded side simultaneously fell below zero.
"The break had been planned to last until Dec. 23, but the scientists decided to restart Yutu now for more research time, based on the recent observations and telemetry parameters," said Pei Zhaoyu, spokesman for the lunar program."
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-12/20/c_125893854.htm
Over at unmannedspaceflight.com, Phil Stooke has done his best to pull image data out of these videos and tried to make a panorama, but despite his best efforts it's clearly nowhere near the quality of the data that underlies it.
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/ce3_pan2_from_video_post_zpscc7de58f.jpg)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/ce3_pan_from_video_post_zps55a46f49.jpg)
Elvis.
Hey Elvis, that is good info. I have been watching several sites, and this is the first new news that I have seen in several days. I am a little surprised that they haven't been using this to keep pumping out the publicity, but they haven't. I do expect that we will see a lot of news on this, with pics, in the days ahead! :)
Hey Rdunk, I think your right mate. I just hope there are some better quality pics. Keep your eyes on the Chinese papers and the science forums for new news. I will post whatever I can find on this. :)
This is a report of 12/22/2013 that is ssimilar to the last report above.
http://www.ecns.cn/2013/12-22/93680.shtml
China's moon rover works stably
2013-12-22 08:55XinhuaWeb Editor: Yao Lan
China's moon rover, Yutu (Jade Rabbit), worked in stable condition following its restart after a "nap" on Friday night, according to the Beijing Aerospace Control Center (BACC).
The six-wheeled rover started moving again after shutting down its subsystems on Dec. 16, and has traveled about 21 meters as of 8:05 p.m. Beijing Time on Saturday, according to the BACC.
Xinhua reporters observed at the center that the rover is moving slowly and tracks of the wheels can be seen clearly at around 5:00 p.m..
Real-time telemetry updates showed that all subsystems of the rover and lander are working stably, and the rover has sent more than 500 instructions to the lander within the 24 hours after the "nap".
Yutu separated from the lander on Dec. 15, several hours after Chang'e-3 soft-landed on Dec. 14. It moved to a spot about 9 meters to the north where Yutu and the lander took photos of each other.
Yutu will survey the moon's geological structure and surface substances and look for natural resources for three months, while the lander will conduct in-situ exploration at the landing site for one year.
China's Chang'e-3 has a telescope! Here is a late news report dated 12/23/2103 that discusses it and other thoughts.
http://www.ecns.cn/2013/12-23/93765.shtml
Chang'e-3 success sparks star-gazing craze
2013-12-23 09:36China DailyWeb Editor: Wang Fan
The success of Chinese lunar probe Chang'e-3 has created a surge of public enthusiasm for astronomy.
On Dec 14, Chang'e-3 set down on the moon, making China the third country in the world to make a soft landing with a lunar probe.
The probe carried a telescope, which scientists say can offer a unique view of the cosmos.
"It is the dream of scientists to look into space from the moon, where observation is better because the moon has no pollution," said Ouyang Ziyuan, a senior adviser for China's lunar program, in an interview before the Dec 2 launch.
"This is the first moon-based astronomical telescope. I know many countries are planning similar projects, but we were the first" to do it, he said.
In the Shanxi provincial observatory, people formed long lines at night to look at the moon and search for the Chang'e-3 landing area.
"I saw where Chang'e-3 landed, but I could not see the probe and Yutu", the six-wheeled moon rover, said Jin Yuxuan, a 7-year-old astronomy buff in Taiyuan, Shanxi's capital.
Astronomer Yan Xiaodong told local media that it was impossible to see Chang'e-3 and Yutu with the 40-cm-diameter telescope at the observatory, given that the probe and rover are 380,000 km away. But people will have fun with the observations and gain scientific knowledge from them, Yan said.
Meanwhile, three young men in Hubei province used plastic tubes to make an 80-mm-diameter astronomical telescope, with which they can see the moon's craters.
All the materials in the telescope were bought from the market, such as plastic tubes from the building-materials market and a viewfinder taken from a toy gun.
"I had seen some pictures of the moon before, but I did not feel them to be magic until I saw those craters through my own telescope. This is amazing," Yu Shifan, one of the telescope's makers, told China News Service.
The three men are planning to produce a wide-angle telescope to observe further into the space.
Another amateur astronomer, 33-year-old Chen Tao from Suzhou, Jiangsu province, started building a private observatory at the Tibet autonomous region's Ngari prefecture in late November.
Based at an altitude of 5,100 meters, the telescope will have good observation weather 300 days a year. When construction is complete, Chen will be able to control devices at the observatory via computer from his home in Suzhou.
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/12/China%20Moon%203.jpg)
(http://www.finlandtimes.fi/assets/images/news_images/2013/12/16/for_details/image_3670_2.jpg)
(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/vg8AQCZj0Y8cspvMzowXrA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTU0MDtxPTc1O3c9OTYw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/video/video.reutersnews.com/2013-12-21T103119Z_1_LOVE9BK0T86YX_RTRMADP_BASEIMAGE-960X540_IN-SPACE-CHINA-MOON-ROVER-ROUGH-CUT-O.JPG)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/image_zps79eb81e9.jpg)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/image_zps59b0547e.jpg)
Three Questions
1) Why does the color of the soil switch from Dark Brown to Cheese Green to Grey in these images?
2) Why does the rover change color from picture to picture?
3) Why is the horizon a straight line with no hills when Apollo shots showed a marked curve and hills? (the curve because the moon is a lot smaller than earth?
Looks to me like the grey color ones are using NASA images with the rover pasted in... and if I recall they release some of these grey ones befoer the launch...
Just asking :P
I see nothing, nothing. Funny no Deuem stars out tonight either?
I told them to wait till I got back to the lab to look them over, but do they listen, Noooo lol
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/Seenothing.jpg) (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/deuem/media/Seenothing.jpg.html)
I have zero idea what is going on in the space behind the rover. It is a first for me.
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/hearnothing.jpg) (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/deuem/media/hearnothing.jpg.html)
Going back to sleep, wiating for some information and better quality photos.
Quote from: deuem on December 23, 2013, 09:39:56 AM
Going back to sleep, wiating for some information and better quality photos.
Sleep... great idea :D
Quote from: zorgon on December 23, 2013, 09:23:22 AM
1) Why does the color of the soil switch from Dark Brown to Cheese Green to Grey in these images?
Probably because of the how the cameras work, the photos make me think the cameras are working with automatic settings, so the colours change according to what the camera is "seeing". It's also possible that manual changes were made to the photos on Earth.
Quote2) Why does the rover change color from picture to picture?
Same as the above.
Quote3) Why is the horizon a straight line with no hills when Apollo shots showed a marked curve and hills? (the curve because the moon is a lot smaller than earth?
It could be because of the lens used and of the terrain surrounding the lander and the rover, as the lander is not near any place where Apollo missions landed.
QuoteLooks to me like the grey color ones are using NASA images with the rover pasted in... and if I recall they release some of these grey ones befoer the launch...
That supposed photo supposedly received by ESA is one of those.
Quote from: deuem on December 23, 2013, 09:39:56 AM
I see nothing, nothing. Funny no Deuem stars out tonight either?
That's probably because that image has too much contrast. What about the other images?
Quote1) Why does the color of the soil switch from Dark Brown to Cheese Green to Grey in these images?
Quote from: ArMaP on December 23, 2013, 01:56:01 PM
Probably because of the how the cameras work, the photos make me think the cameras are working with automatic settings, so the colours change according to what the camera is "seeing". It's also possible that manual changes were made to the photos on Earth.
Same as the above.
Quote2) Why does the rover change color from picture to picture?
Quote from: ArMaP on December 23, 2013, 01:56:01 PM
It could be because of the lens used and of the terrain surrounding the lander and the rover, as the lander is not near any place where Apollo missions landed.
That supposed photo supposedly received by ESA is one of those.
I agree to both of those. And I've noticed with space photography especially, there's a certain need to filter and contrast colors to make pictures more interesting to look at.
Quote3) Why is the horizon a straight line with no hills when Apollo shots showed a marked curve and hills? (the curve because the moon is a lot smaller than earth?
Look at how vast and varied the topography of the Earth is. I just don't expect any less of the Moon and Mars. Location to location I expect to see different colored rock with different geology. Different terrain, a different horizon. Constant simularity would be a red flag for me.
Quote from: rdunk on December 21, 2013, 06:09:07 PM
Hey Elvis, that is good info. I have been watching several sites, and this is the first new news that I have seen in several days. I am a little surprised that they haven't been using this to keep pumping out the publicity, but they haven't. I do expect that we will see a lot of news on this, with pics, in the days ahead! :)
Exactly Rdunk!
I am still blown away that MSM don't have some serious new's reporting going here. Whether Real or Not the same level of Nationalism if compared to Nasa is not being reported. It's like people are more worried about the worm on the stockmarket along with a few selfie's to even bother looking this up in the general community.
To put my Phage Hat on... China are on the Moon. FACT ;)
Elvis Hendropharomonix....
Man there is more Fish Eye going on this image than even GoPro would like..and thats saying something LOL
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/ce3_pan_from_video_post_zps55a46f49.jpg)
I don't know what to believe any more :(
1st that shot from the lander showing the moons curvature ??
Is it really that small that you can see such a pronounced curve?
And the colour of the rover? Gold? Silver?
Just can't trust what I see. But with Peggy's moon experts we shall get to the bottom of this!
Maybe an exclusive! That would be cool for publicity :-)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/20131223_yutu_rolling_zps42869629.gif)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/20131223_Img392264886_zps1f77a397.jpg)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/20131223_change_lander_flicker_f233_zps9458a6c2.gif)
----------------------
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/xmas-star-wars1_zps890f32cb.gif)
What the heck is the triangle thingie near the top of the photo?
so the rover's covered in SILVER not GOLD foil?
Respect Elvis 8) your deffo bringing the exclusives,shame i'm not 100% convinced.
and WHY the MSM blackout?? not a pipsqueek on the news! that's just wrong! :(
I'm in talks with our resident RC expert FLUX to get a bluetooth uplink so we can take jade wabbit for a spin! bluesnarfing to the max!!! ;D
do you make your own animated Gif's Elvis mate :)?
Please humor me. It is Christmas eve,and I may have had too much 'cheer' Pegasus does not allow me to
attach anything, so when you have time, go to www.planetarysociety.org Click on home page. click on
chang'e 3 in motion. click on 'see the photoes'. go to image 'yutu begins her lunar journey'. enlarge 300-
400%. on the left just below the horizon, is a rather strange lunar rock...to me it is shaped similar to my
garden tractor. What say you ??
rubicon
The home page must have changed or I get a different one here. No "chang'e 3 in motion" for me. Do you have a dirrect link to the photo in question?
Quote from: 08rubicon on December 25, 2013, 03:49:01 AM
. on the left just below the horizon, is a rather strange lunar rock...to me it is shaped similar to my
garden tractor. What say you ??
rubicon
This one?
(http://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/images/3-moon/20131223_yutu.png)
This area?
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/347us13.jpg)
The shape of the stone looks weird indeed.
Yea that rock on the left does look strange I agree. Also on the right it looks like a peeking head coming out the ground!.
Happy Xmas.
Hey stealthy mate no I don't make the gifs unfortunately.
I steal them all.. I normally do it in the dead of night when the sky is as black as Satans heart .
I wear my purple cape and mask fashioned in the finest Moroccan velvet when I'm out gif nicking.
I look windswept and ruthless and the chicks dig it :D
Yea baby.
deuem;
try www.planetary.org/blogs/emily_lakdawalla then 'update chang'e 3 rubicon
Quote from: 08rubicon on December 25, 2013, 01:56:21 PM
deuem;
try www.planetary.org/blogs/emily_lakdawalla (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily_lakdawalla) then 'update chang'e 3 rubicon
I tried, It is locked in a Blog and I can't get into any blogs even on the proxie. Sorry. Deuem
You might also try www.cntv.cn though I can not find any real updates there..It seems that information on the chang'e 3 mission
is limited..a lot of simulation.
rubicon
According to this report, the Chang'e 3 Rover "goes to sleep" today, the 25th of December, for about two weeks because of the extreme cold.
http://www.ecns.cn/2013/12-25/94095.shtml
China's moon rover 'sleeps' through lunar night
2013-12-25 08:51XinhuaWeb Editor: Mo Hong'e
The moon rover and lander of China's Chang'e 3 lunar probe mission will "sleep" during the lunar night, enduring extreme low temperatures on the lunar surface. [Special coverage]
According to Wu Fenglei of the Beijing Aerospace Control Center, the lander will "go to sleep" at about 7 a.m. on Christmas Day and the moon rover, Jade Rabbit, will fall asleep at about 1 a.m. on Boxing Day.
The forthcoming lunar night, expected to begin on Dec. 26, will last for about two weeks, experts with the center estimated. During their "sleep", both lander and rover will have to tolerate minus 180 degrees Celsius. Scientists tested the lander early Tuesday to ensure it can stand the temperature drop.
Both lander and rover are stable, said Wu, adding they have completed a series of scientific tasks in the past two days.
Chang'e-3 soft-landed on the moon's Sinus Iridum, or the Bay of Rainbows, on Dec. 14, establishing China as the third country to carry out such a mission after the United Statesand Soviet Union.
Yutu, the rover, will survey the moon's geological structure and surface substances and look for natural resources for three months, while the lander will conduct in-situ exploration at the landing site for one year.
I'm watching all of this in every nook and cranny I can find and I'm just not buying it.
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/image_zpsc8134466.jpg)
Of course I'm probably wrong.
But from where I'm standing its a bit on the stinky side.
Time and evidence will of course tell.
Elvis.
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on December 25, 2013, 11:09:29 PM
I'm watching all of this in every nook and cranny I can find and I'm just not buying it.
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/image_zpsc8134466.jpg)
The problem is that everybody posts images from somewhere, without pointing to the source, and we are left trying to understand what those are supposed to be, like the image that was posted as a photo received by ESA that turned out to be some "artist concept" published one month before the landing.
Posting images as if this was a contest to see who posts more images or who posts some image first is not going to make it easier to understand.
For example, where did you find that image? What is the context? What do you know about it?
It looks like a model in some exhibit.
armap do you not read man!
Elvis found it in a nook and cranny!! ;)
happy christmas
Quote from: stealthyaroura on December 25, 2013, 11:50:00 PM
armap do you not read man!
Elvis found it in a nook and cranny!! ;)
happy christmas
Gold shilling for you.
So Far I don't care where they have been found! Even from the source all the photos are vey shaky. No stars, square errased skies, no sunlight. The nooks have a lot of dust to sweep away if this little rabbit is going to be believed. Also no real site for photos, just dribbled out as they finish them. The rover / lander should have presented a few thousand photos by now. They say they are capable of 10 frames per second and so far we have only a few rough photos. And whats with the fish eye lens?
The rabbit on the moon is disapointing. If it really did land and is taking all sorts of photos, WHERE ARE THEY? Why hide them?
Ever since I started writing on this subject my internet connection is getting worse. They must be tracking me now. I wish they would spend as much time on the problem as on me. There is almost nothing on the news that I can pick up. Just a dribble here ad there. For something so important I would expect for them to use a CCTV channel 24 hours a day to brag. Yet nothing. No front page newspaper photos every day. Noting on the net to speak of. No radio live broadcasts. WHY? This is not an everyday event. Where is the tickertate parade for the little guy? The big parties with fireworks. NOTHING! These guys party if they cut the head off a chicken.
For the biggest step in the history of the local space mission we get nothing! oh well. Here chicky, chicky.
Quote from: deuem on December 26, 2013, 12:13:22 AM
So Far I don't care where they have been found!
But I do, specially when people post image from something else as they were photos from the rover or the lander.
Posting an image found in some site, on a page from one month before the landing is obviously not the same as posting a photo taken by the rover or the lander. Posting them as if they were (or without saying a thing about the image, which may be considered as implying that what is being posted is a real photo) only makes things worse.
It's becoming like those cases where people talk about NASA images that have obvious changes, but when we look for those photos we see that they are not from NASA sites but from private, non-official sites.
That only takes us farther away from the truth.
QuoteNo stars, square errased skies, no sunlight.
That's no surprise if we are talking about some "artistic rendering" or something like that, that's why I would like to know where those images are coming from.
QuoteThe rabbit on the moon is disapointing. If it really did land and is taking all sorts of photos, WHERE ARE THEY? Why hide them?
That's one problem that all space agencies have, the most open space agency is NASA, that publishes (apparently) all the photos they take as soon as they (apparently) can. No other space agency does that.
armap;
Did you try www.planetary.org or planetarysociety.org or www.cntv.cn blog by emily lakdawalla ? did not post a picture, as I
can not, but thought you would like to look it up for yourself. cntv
is in chinese, but has an english site. How do we know if a site is
an official chang'e 3 site? Do we know if there is an official site or
even if there is a jade rabbit-chang'e 3 mission ? Do we know anything
for sure? This entire episode may be pure fiction..
rubicon
Quote from: 08rubicon on December 26, 2013, 12:36:12 AM
armap;
Did you try www.planetary.org or planetarysociety.org or www.cntv.cn blog by emily lakdawalla ?
If I tried those sites? What for? ???
"You make your own reality."
"When you do not want to believe, you will never believe."
"Lied to once, you always fear truth."
"Disbelief is far easier than critical critique against what you desire."
You guys are far to fast to leap out into tin foil land when it's fa simpler. If something funny is going on, you need to have the intellectual honesty to not jump at everything. If you want the world to take you seriously, you need to discriminate. One pixel is off and you're all "NASA tampering!" A photo is a shade off and it's "PHOTOSHOP".
If we want truth, we need to quit this BS floating rocks, lizard rocks, whatever crap.
I know I'm the black sheep of Peggy because there's not enough tin in my diet, but if we, YOU, want honest truth, REAL HONEST TRUTH, we need to quit embracing anomalties immediately without honest discussion and setting ego aside so you can back down. That's my problem with several posters here. They plant a flag on first post and they WILL. Not. Move. It's all ego. Truth be damned.
We all know there is all kinds of lies, damned lies, and &^%$*'in damned lies in the world around us. But assuming everything is a lie from the get go is a lie unto ourselves.
~Wartoad, soon to be banned, black sheep, esq.
Hi wartoad;
I do not know just who you are refering to..I asked a question hoping for more information.And, yes, I did expect a rant..Thank you
for complying.
rubicon
When I wrote "I Don't care where they came from" I was being sarcastic. I, like you am trying to get to the originals or as close as I can get. So far the artistic photos are better than the so called real ones. Where are the parties ArMaP. Heck they party for a month at New Years. This is the largest space thingy they have ever done and it is back page news. Huh?
They have been bragging all along that this is the peoples project and they would post everything. Huh? This rover is where? Maybe it will go to sleep now and stay that way just to save face. That way they can say they were there and it will drop off the news 100% in a week or so.
Remember we were promised all the moon photos! Where are they. We got a map. Where are the photos? Thousands of them. Where are the thousands of 10 per second lander/rover photos?
If one opens mouth, one should produce what one says. Otherwise they should have said it can only take 1 photo and stop. That would have been OK. It is the lack of photos I am worried about. Look at the Mars rovers. There are so many photos no one can view them all in one day. They are hurting their own credibility not us.
War Toad; I posted 2 processed photos from the best sources I could get and the photos are tampered with. No one even responded to them. There are eraser marks all over the lander and the rovers sky is like something out of the twilight zone. Hey I wanted them to turn out well to help back them up but no dice so far. No stars, no sunlight, spot lights, pasted parts, it is like a nightmare on elm street photo. Give me a real print and I'll give you a real process. I am waiting. maybe the cameras are screwed up and they are going crazy fixing them in PS so they look good. Maybe they are overlaying photos so we see details.
As of this moment I will wait for the final judgement but so far I have nothing good to work with. If this is all we will ever get, then the book needs to be closed.
You won't get banned for saying what you think. People only get banned for picking on other members one on one. So please keep going. We need all sides of the argument to stay in line.
a ps to this: I would have loved to post a fantastic processed photo and talk all about the great things in it. Something is wrong in Ch1na Town.
Deuem
EXACTLY Deuem its a work in progress.
seems we're the only group trying to get to the bottom of this mess.
go team peggy!
(http://main.abqjournal.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/a03_jd_16dec_rover.jpg)
(click on image for full size)
4 green lights in the sky?
http://www.abqjournal.com/321072/news/china-hails-success-of-first-lunar-mission.html (http://www.abqjournal.com/321072/news/china-hails-success-of-first-lunar-mission.html)
A51
i count 7 green lights
and they go to sqaure shapes when i enlarge them..like the satelites i get sometimes
Quote from: A51Watcher on December 26, 2013, 03:43:21 AM
(http://main.abqjournal.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/a03_jd_16dec_rover.jpg)
(click on image for full size)
4 green lights in the sky?
http://www.abqjournal.com/321072/news/china-hails-success-of-first-lunar-mission.html (http://www.abqjournal.com/321072/news/china-hails-success-of-first-lunar-mission.html)
those are rocks. hehehe
couldn't resist.
Quote from: deuem on December 26, 2013, 02:42:43 AM
When I wrote "I Don't care where they came from" I was being sarcastic.
Sorry, I didn't understand it that way. :)
QuoteMaybe it will go to sleep now and stay that way just to save face. That way they can say they were there and it will drop off the news 100% in a week or so.
Maybe, I have thought about that.
QuoteRemember we were promised all the moon photos! Where are they. We got a map. Where are the photos? Thousands of them. Where are the thousands of 10 per second lander/rover photos?
Where are the photos from the previous Moon mission? They were promised to the Chinese people, so people in China should be able to find them.
QuoteThey are hurting their own credibility not us.
Yes, but what I was saying is that we are hurting our own credibility if we post "artistic renderings" as if they were real photos.
QuoteI posted 2 processed photos from the best sources I could get and the photos are tampered with.
I thought both were from the same photo, if they are then you should know that you shouldn't expect much from a highly contrasted image.
Lets play where's Waldo :)
There is also a faint horizontal line and vertical line which is approx 90degs from the horizontal.
QuoteYes, but what I was saying is that we are hurting our own credibility if we post "artistic renderings" as if they were real photos.
At this point in time I'm not quite sure if every photo meets that criteria. With the true Artistic photos, you will have to ask the person who posted them.
Quote
I thought both were from the same photo, if they are then you should know that you shouldn't expect much from a highly contrasted image.
No, One was the lander and the other the rover. Sorry to ask but can't you see the difference between the two? One is big and on legs, the other is small and has wheels. I am on a little bit of sticky ground here ArMaP. I might get cut off if I go too far. I don't know. All I want to see is a good data base for us to look at and know where and when they are from. Hopefully it will be from the local space agency files.
Flux: what print?
Today we processed the Garden tractor print and it has 5 levels of colors. layers, walls. One of the layers an overlay of translucent garbage to block the view. There seems to be so many things wrong with the prints so far I don't know where to start. I would love to process some good prints. Then we can party.
Deuem
After a little bit of digging I found this statement again on the Chinese Space web site.
Quote
As a photo appeared on a big monitoring screen at the Beijing Aerospace Control Center (BACC), senior state leaders and dozens of center staff clapped hands in cheers.
This is making me think that not one of the photos we are looking at are the space ships photos but the news people taking photos of the big screen. The large plasma screens are really nice to see. One of my friends screen is almost 4 feet long and you can almost step into it. If the photos we have are all news re-shots of this screen it would explain every thing so far, Even the different colors.
Certain lights in the hall will give you the green Yellow and others will be true white. The 4 to 7 green floating balls could be all news crews using Video cameras with on lights in the front of then reflecting on the plasma screen. The fact I can not pick up stars or that the sun light is null would also be solved by this re-shot. If I process a picture of a picture it removes all the fine details.
So it is quite possible that we have never yet seen an official real photo yet. Why is the new question. This makes it impossible to do any real detective work. Every thing is wrong to begin with. So if this is the only way we will ever get to see the shots, the quality can be blammed on the TV re-shoot. Very smart move if true.
So far I can not find any data base of even 1 print. All the prints must be grabbed off a news site. These photos look like re-shoots.
I feel stuck in the mud now. And most of all, there is no local news and nothing being taught in any of the schools or parties in the streets. Almost like it was an everyday occurance and nothing of interest.
Deuem
Quote from: deuem on December 26, 2013, 11:47:40 AM
At this point in time I'm not quite sure if every photo meets that criteria. With the true Artistic photos, you will have to ask the person who posted them.
That's the problem, as some of the images are posted here without any comments and the one I am sure is an "artist version" the person that posted it never answered my question.
QuoteNo, One was the lander and the other the rover. Sorry to ask but can't you see the difference between the two?
I don't know how I did it, but for some reason I only saw the top part of the second image. Sorry for the confusion. :-[
QuoteOne of the layers an overlay of translucent garbage to block the view.
How can you know that?
Quote from: deuem on December 26, 2013, 01:05:58 PM
This is making me think that not one of the photos we are looking at are the space ships photos but the news people taking photos of the big screen.
I agree, that would explain all the differences and more.
The best way I have found to get information, is to ask a dumb
question. The information on this site is the best I have found, even
though I sometimes find that I am very wrong in my judgement.
I want to thank everyone for all the images and information. I first
became interrested in the moon and mars from J.P.Skipper, who
had a good web site.I am critical of all videos,and images from the
news outlets, as I feel they are controling our thinking on all subjects,
for they own benefit. I am a conspiricy nut. Thanks again
rubicon
Howdy, I was checking out the pictures in this thread and I have not seen anyone mention the depressions that seem to be equally spaced and very much alike. You can see them in the picture in this post http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5839.msg81775#msg81775 by A51watcher when you click to enlarge. They are along the left side of the picture and go a ways off looking out under the panel. There does not look to be any tracks accompanying them either. There is a series of them, 3 maybe 4. and they look as though they are old. (Almost looks like something was walking lol)
Cool stuff
whatthehey
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/SnapShot123023.jpg) (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/deuem/media/SnapShot123023.jpg.html)
Whatthehey: I presume thee are the steps you're talking about.
Deuem
Yup that's the ones. Do you know what they are. I just noticed them and thought they were a bit strange.
I have a question. We do not know the sensor type used in chang'e 3
cameras, ccd or cmos. The light is transfered digitally pixel by pixel,
line by line in cmos,sent to a transmiter, picked up by a receiver, fed
into a computer. It is then reconstructed as an image. Is it possible
to alter the final image if the transmision does not meet pre-programed
computer instructions ? Can the image be generated in a computer
program without a camera ? Sorry if this question is too basic . I seem
to be knowledge handicaped.
rubicon
Quote from: WhatTheHey on December 26, 2013, 03:50:25 PM
Yup that's the ones. Do you know what they are. I just noticed them and thought they were a bit strange.
Likely footprints from the stage hands :P
::)
Quote from: deuem on December 26, 2013, 11:47:40 AM
Flux: what print?
Deuem
The image A51 posted with the little green lights which Sky Otter pointed out. The faint lines are within the sky line. These imperfections maybe from taking a photo of a large monitor like you mentioned before.
Quote from: 08rubicon on December 26, 2013, 04:34:16 PM
I have a question. We do not know the sensor type used in chang'e 3 cameras, ccd or cmos.
CMOS sensors are usually used on lower quality cameras, I saw one site saying that the camera that was filming the landing (the one capable of 10 fps video) was a CMOS camera.
QuoteThe light is transfered digitally pixel by pixel, line by line in cmos,sent to a transmiter, picked up by a receiver, fed into a computer. It is then reconstructed as an image. Is it possible to alter the final image if the transmision does not meet pre-programed computer instructions ?
Sure it is, the biggest problem would be knowing if they meet or not those hypothetical "pre-programed computer instructions". But I don't see how computer instructions would come from an imaging sensor.
QuoteCan the image be generated in a computer program without a camera ?
Yes, an image can be generated in a computer program.
Quote
The light is transferred digitally pixel by pixel, line by line in cmos, sent to a transmitter, picked up by a receiver, fed into a computer. It is then reconstructed as an image. Is it possible to alter the final image if the transmission does not meet pre-programmed computer instructions ?
Sure it is, the biggest problem would be knowing if they meet or not those hypothetical "pre-programmed computer instructions". But I don't see how computer instructions would come from an imaging sensor.
The Easy thing to do would be to program it to obliterate any known shapes like straight lines, squares, circles and triangles. If it picked up a geometric pattern, then blot that section with a preprogrammed rock or blend it to death. Even cover the area with a screen like filter to confuse the pixels and scatter them around. Or send it up with a hard drive full of preprogrammed photos to be released on command. At least this way they seem to come from the moon.
If the photo is altered at the site then it would have to be after the image sensor and in a processor. People also do CGI all the time with out a camera. The Moon / Earth shot on this thread is a CGI photo. Composite put together without a camera. It also showed Europe being nuked if you look close. They could have used a better shot.
Deuem
Quote from: Flux on December 26, 2013, 09:05:46 PM
The faint lines are within the sky line. These imperfections maybe from taking a photo of a large monitor like you mentioned before.
After some level adjustments those lines become more visible. :)
(click for full size)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img577/6061/m3ld.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/a/img801/7451/vwko.jpg)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/Tumbleweed_zps02a923fa.gif)
:D
6 Minute landing video. If they don't work, oh well I tried.
http://v.pps.tv/play_3AQE3K.html (http://v.pps.tv/play_3AQE3K.html)
or the same one
http://player.pps.tv/player/sid/3AQE3K/v.swf (http://player.pps.tv/player/sid/3AQE3K/v.swf)
If anyone can get this and get a copy I would like a copy.
Interesting to watch.
Deuem
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on December 27, 2013, 09:13:09 AM
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/Tumbleweed_zps02a923fa.gif)
:D
Elvis, one of those tumbleweeds appears to be from the Moon, and the other has a Martian look. Is that what you are seeing, or am I mistaken. Both do seem to be equally affected by the surface winds! However, with the way these babies are bouncing, the which is indicative of "reduced gravity", this would point to both of these being on the Moon.
Then again, from what we can see in the way these tumbleweeds are bouncing and being blown, there certainly does appear to be enough "wind" to blow an American flag, if an American flag just happened to be placed here.......some day! ;)
There is an obvious cross on Mars (that I will post someday), I wonder if Chang'e 3 will find an Christmas tree on the Moon (or maybe an American flag)? Where there are tumbleweeds and/or flags, there might also be Christmas trees!!:))
This space research stuff is fun, isn't it?!!!
Ha Ha Rdunk sorry i couldnt help myself ;)
Guys this is not a troll post. I am mearly passing on info that is being published. I myself am unconvinced thus far..
Elvis
Last week China made international news claiming to have successfully landed a spacecraft carrying a lunar rover called the "Jade Rabbit" on the moon. Unfortunately like other publicized space exploration spectacles this event is highly questionable and appears to be another hoax. Many researchers have proven conclusively that the American missions to the moon during the Apollo era of the late 1960s and early 1970s were faked in a television studio on Earth. It is no wonder why Apollo astronauts like buzz Aldrin get angry and punch people when confronted about their participation in the fraud. It is truly sad that the Chinese have decided to follow this same hoax formula as they attempt to project national prestige through their space program. It is however much more cost effective to fake a mission into space than to actually do it legitimately.
China's space program already has a dubious history after many independent researchers questioned the authenticity of video footage claiming to show the nation's first manned spacewalk back in 2008. The footage of the alleged spacewalk at one point shows what appear to be water bubbles floating past an astronaut. This indicates that the footage the Chinese passed off as their first spacewalk was shot in a water tank and not in space. Details surrounding the so-called successful spacewalk including quotes from the astronauts involved in the mission were released prior to the mission even launching. In other words, the scripted event was released to the public too early. This embarrassing situation further confirmed people's doubts about the spacewalk's legitimacy and provided more proof that the entire event was staged.
The circumstances surrounding China's alleged moon landing are just as questionable. When the event was broadcast live by Chinese television it focused primarily on the cartoon animations of the spacecraft. Little if any useful footage was shown from the spacecraft itself. The little footage that we did see showed frame by frame clips of the spacecraft supposedly getting closer to the lunar surface. Once we were told that it had landed on the moon, the camera attached to the spacecraft showed nothing that anyone would find remotely useful. It is also hard to understand how no dust from the surface was picked up by the on board camera when the spacecraft landed. Surely the spacecraft's engine when approaching the surface or the impact with the surface itself would have kicked up some dust from the surface. The footage shows none of this even in the real time version that was released after the live broadcast.
The only other footage we have been shown of this mission is a brief video clip supposedly showing the "Jade Rabbit" lunar rover rolling itself out on to the lunar surface. Some of the same questions that people have raised about the Apollo footage pertains here. The footage shows black sky with no stars or other celestial reference points. In addition, the horizon shown is curved in a very strange manner. It looks man made without the normal inconsistencies you'd expect to see if we were truly looking at the real lunar horizon.
On top of this, there has been very little mention of the space mission since the alleged landing and rover deployment last week. We have also seen no high quality pictures or video footage taken of the lunar surface. If this were a real mission, one would think that they would be sending back hundreds if not thousands of new images and video in high quality to show off the powerful technological capabilities of the Chinese state. None of this has happened which gives more credence to the premise that this event is being faked.
Besides the footage mentioned earlier the only other significant material released so far has been a panorama picture of the lunar surface. Instead of releasing a high quality source image, it has been released in the form of a video camera recording the image off of a projector screen. This is the same tactic that was used during the Apollo 11 mission undoubtedly to mask or hide imperfections of the stage. Interestingly enough, the panorama which should show both the sun and the earth are not seen at all anywhere in the sky of the picture. All of this raises some serious questions about the photo's authenticity along with the authenticity of the mission itself. It is pretty sad that you could actually argue that the James Bond film "Diamonds Are Forever" released back in the early 1970s provided a better hoax recreation of the lunar surface than what we are seeing here.
It should be interesting to see how the Chinese will deal with this moving forward since everything we have seen so far indicates that this mission is nothing more than a gigantic fraud. The footage and images that we have been shown so far are about the same quality of the stuff we saw back in the late 1960s and early 1970s during the Apollo hoaxes. This in of itself is ridiculous considering that we've since had over 40 years of advances in camera technology. Take for example some of the high resolution photos taken from the Hubble telescope. Simply put, the Chinese have given us no reason to believe that this mission is real and every reason to believe that it is fake.
http://planet.infowars.com/offbeat/chinas-moon-landing-appears-to-be-another-staged-hoax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxQEHfU6hM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1061495/China-boasted-space-walk-mission-hours-astronauts-left-launch-pad.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfNb0jeTi2s
deuem;
Search http://english/cntv.cn or http://cntv.cn..The only video
of the chang'e 3 landing was a simulation 14 min. long. at the end,
still images were shown of the landing area. Guess you will have to
search, as the info is hard to find..look for 'china's first moon rover-
special report-'chang'e 3 probe soft landing on moon.' good luck
rubicon
you might also try www.planetarysociety.org. go to ' view the library'
half way down page (1) is the landing video. check it out
Quote from: deuem on December 27, 2013, 01:49:06 PM
If anyone can get this and get a copy I would like a copy.
I downloaded it and sent you a copy. :)
the chinese space walk bubble thing, seems wrong to me. i don't think those are bubbles but the rest of the evidence suggests something weird was going on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9LWNv-kdTI
Bumped to read later, because i am a lazy git....
Anomalies, they are everywhere!
What you might want to look for in the 'backround' is evidence of a collapsed dome, as i pointed out in my vid "ffing moon", most of you have seen it ::)
This would involve
evidence of titanium steel struts (yellowish in colour) and
silixon glass, which is in abundance there....a kind of blue-greenish off-white.....
Look for that kind of formation in the backround (if there is one...? )
Later ;D
ETA: Sh... yet another hoax? I guess we will have to go there ourselves... ::) :P 8)
Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on December 27, 2013, 11:15:21 PM
Bumped to read later, because i am a lazy git....
Anomalies, they are everywhere!
What you might want to look for in the 'backround' is evidence of a collapsed dome, as i pointed out in my vid "ffing moon", most of you have seen it ::)
This would involve evidence of titanium steel struts (yellowish in colour) and silixon glass, which is in abundance there....a kind of blue-greenish off-white.....
Look for that kind of formation in the backround (if there is one...? )
Later ;D
ETA: Sh... yet another hoax? I guess we will have to go there ourselves... ::) :P 8)
well let's start building something, PWM; scatter components among those willing to build and get 'er started...
then ship part a to be joined with part b and then c...
seeker
Quote from: 08rubicon on December 27, 2013, 05:49:08 PM
deuem;
Search http://english/cntv.cn (http://english/cntv.cn) or http://cntv.cn (http://cntv.cn/)..The only video
of the chang'e 3 landing was a simulation 14 min. long. at the end,
still images were shown of the landing area. Guess you will have to
search, as the info is hard to find..look for 'china's first moon rover-
special report-'chang'e 3 probe soft landing on moon.' good luck
rubicon
Ok, I have noted the 3 sites and will check them out after this.
Yesterday my wife and I did a tour through the Chinese internet in Chinese and the 6 minute film was the best one I could come up with. It is said to have over 4,000 frames and to be the real one. The other fake vids we just passed over. There are many of them including the vid you mentioned.
In the vid you can see the laser range finder lighting up the moon and the hover manuver. A large rocket blast at the end and lots of dust being tossed in the air and the camera lens being covered over with dust. In the vid, the rocket is to the left side. It looks to be all grayscale so processing the frames won't be very exciting.
ArMaP thanks. I will go and get the video next. When and if you do find any real photos of this event. They should be clear of any news firms logos in the lower right hand corner. This is a dead give away that they are a repeat of a TV photo. In the video there is a section whited out that looks like an area for data. Vectors and distances to touch down. Why it is whited out I don't know. But we did that also for all the air videos over Bagdad.
So at this point in time if anything is real this has the best chance.
Deuem
OK noted, i want to chat to both of you in the skype-peggy linkup on new year's eve, i may be an hour or 2 late.....thanks guys
(http://english/cntv.cn %20%20or %20http://cntv.cn..The%20only%20video%20of%20the%20chang'e%203%20landing%20was%20a%20simulation%2014%20min.%20long.%20at%20the%20end,%20still%20images%20were%20shown%20of%20the%20landing%20area.%20Guess%20you%20will%20have%20to%20search,%20as%20the%20info%20is%20hard%20to%20find..look%20for%20'china's%20first%20moon%20rover-%20special%20report-'chang'e%203%20probe%20soft%20landing%20on%20moon.' %20good%20luck %20%20rubicon)
QuoteSearch http://english/cntv.cn or http://cntv.cn..The only video
of the chang'e 3 landing was a simulation 14 min. long. at the end,
still images were shown of the landing area. Guess you will have to
search, as the info is hard to find..look for 'china's first moon rover-
special report-'chang'e 3 probe soft landing on moon.' good luck
rubicon (http://english/cntv.cn %20%20or %20http://cntv.cn..The%20only%20video%20of%20the%20chang'e%203%20landing%20was%20a%20simulation%2014%20min.%20long.%20at%20the%20end,%20still%20images%20were%20shown%20of%20the%20landing%20area.%20Guess%20you%20will%20have%20to%20search,%20as%20the%20info%20is%20hard%20to%20find..look%20for%20'china's%20first%20moon%20rover-%20special%20report-'chang'e%203%20probe%20soft%20landing%20on%20moon.' %20good%20luck %20%20rubicon)
you might also try www.planetarysociety.org (http://www.planetarysociety.org). go to ' view the library'
half way down page (1) is the landing video. check it out
http://english.cntv.cn/program/china24/20131221/104383.shtml (http://english.cntv.cn/program/china24/20131221/104383.shtml)http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20131214/104450.shtml
Space Dream
85 min show withon the site
http://english.cntv.cn/special/lunarmission/index.shtml (http://english.cntv.cn/special/lunarmission/index.shtml)
Panarama
http://english.cntv.cn/program/china24/20131221/104383.shtml (http://english.cntv.cn/program/china24/20131221/104383.shtml)
NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter flew over the Chang'e 3 landing site this week and took pictures with the probe's high-resolution camera. NASA spokesperson Dwayne Brown said Friday the images could be released early next week, but it was too soon to determine whether the orbiter could spot the lander or rover on the lunar surface.
NASA is banned from bilateral cooperation with China's space program under legislation passed in 2011.
http://spaceflightnow.com/china/change3/131227hibernation/#.Ur5e538gGSN
Keep an eye here for updates.
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7758&st=225
LRO image of chang'e 3 on the moon can be viewed in image
library at www.planetarysociety.org
rubicon
Thanks for the information. :)
From that site:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img5/6954/t3h5.png)
Before and after animation:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img801/3259/lny.gif)
ArMaP, Why are you using the word "animation". Is it a fake photo and the real one is blank or can not really see it?
Quote from: deuem on December 31, 2013, 01:01:25 AM
ArMaP, Why are you using the word "animation".
Because the second image is an animation made with two photos, showing the photo taken on June 30, 2013 and the photo taken on December 25, 2013, showing the lander and the rover.
Edited to add a side by side version instead of the animation.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img543/6995/8mid.png)
All images taken from this page (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/news/index.php?/archives/849-Change-3-Lander-and-Rover-From-Above.html).
This one is my problem. The first time the pic was a still photo that was empty of the lander. It just started to play the gif and I can see what you mean by anmation now. "My bad".
Ok, have you had time to pull out a landing photo of that same area from the video and match it up. They should match. we have 4000 stills in the video I posted the link to. One of them should mach if rotated correctly. If so we have a match, If not we have a problem.
Deuem
Quote from: deuem on December 31, 2013, 02:32:49 AM
Ok, have you had time to pull out a landing photo of that same area from the video and match it up. They should match.
I did not, someone did. :)
(click for full size)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img541/1803/xhpr.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img593/1116/cikg.png)
God your good ArMaP 8) GOLD for you :)
and Deuem too.
infact all have some.you put the work in!
Thank you stealthy.
ArMap, What I was thinking would be from the landing footage from orbit to the moon. Begining at the 100 meter hover they should match with the LRO photo. That would be the best. We can do an overlay. We should be able to line up every crater.
Deuem
deuem-armap
go to www.lroc.asu.edu lroc images scrole down and click on act-react
quick map. At maximum resolution at lat.44.1147 lon. -19.5153 you will
find the exact crater layout as in the landing video..IT IS THERE..
rubicon
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on December 28, 2013, 05:22:12 AM
NASA is banned from bilateral cooperation with China's space program under legislation passed in 2011.
Says who?
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/NASA/159216main_mg_yuan_full.jpg)
Zorgon seeks help making TWO DOTS on this photo :D
Yellow Dot #1 The Chinese Wabbit
Blue Dot #2 Apollo 15 Site
Please be as accurate as possible :D
Much obliged
(http://lpod.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/Imbrium_Basin_LIDAR_LTVT.JPG)
This is not exactly what you asked for but it is a close as I can get today. I'm sure this is a loaded question. But with the data I have have this should be the location, All cords are on the print with a distance of 488 miles. It also places the rabbit in the middle of the alantic Ocean on Earth with 15 in Africa.
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa458/deuem/Jadeand15.jpg) (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/deuem/media/Jadeand15.jpg.html)
Deuem
No not a loaded question :D
Quote from: zorgon on January 01, 2014, 11:18:00 AM
No not a loaded question :D
Ok then did I win a stuffed Jade Wabbit at least? The moon is so clutered with junk in that area if One stakes claims they will overlap each other. Besides, It's my moon! Deuem was there first and I claimed the entire place. Can't you see my flag. Oh thats right NASA blurred it out, Sorry.
Deuem
Quote from: zorgon on January 01, 2014, 02:27:49 AM
Says who?
Apparently, Public Law 112-55 Sec. 539.
QuoteSec. 539. <<NOTE: China.>> (a) None of the funds made available by this Act may be used for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) or the Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) to develop, design, plan, promulgate, implement, or execute a bilateral policy, program, order, or contract of any kind to participate, collaborate, or coordinate bilaterally in any way with China or any Chinese-owned company unless such activities are specifically authorized by a law enacted after the date of enactment of this Act.
Source (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-112publ55/html/PLAW-112publ55.htm)
And your photo is from 2006. :)
Quote from: 08rubicon on January 01, 2014, 02:13:16 AM
deuem-armap
go to www.lroc.asu.edu lroc images scrole down and click on act-react
quick map. At maximum resolution at lat.44.1147 lon. -19.5153 you will
find the exact crater layout as in the landing video..IT IS THERE..
rubicon
That's what I have been using. :)
I was trying to something with the video but I found out that the new version of Avidemux is missing some plugins/filters. :(
Quote from: zorgon on January 01, 2014, 02:35:32 AM
Zorgon seeks help making TWO DOTS on this photo :D
That's not a photo. :P
QuoteYellow Dot #1 The Chinese Wabbit
Blue Dot #2 Apollo 15 Site
Here's my attempt. :)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img15/3738/aguo.png)
Chang'e-3 satellite payload APXS obtained its first spectrum of lunar regolith (mantle rock)
The Active Particle-induced X-ray Spectrometer (APXS), carried by the Yutu rover of the Chang'e-3 satellite got its first X-ray fluorescence spectrum of lunar regolith around the landing site on December 25, 2013.
An initial analysis indicates that eight major rock-forming elements (Mg, Al, Si, K, Ca, Ti, Cr and Fe) and at least 3 minor elements (Sr, Y and Zr) of the Moon can be identified in this spectrum. ................................more
http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Change_3_satellite_payload_APXS_obtained_its_first_spectrum_of_lunar_regolith_999.html
On my Wabbit location the chines space agency had a film running on one of their screens with the location and I grabbed it. Worked it around and located the pair. I wanted to see if it matched what everyone else was getting. it was only on the screen for a couple of frames but one frame is all I ever need. 8) Bond, Deuem Bond ???
Quote from: deuem on December 31, 2013, 06:32:46 PM
ArMap, What I was thinking would be from the landing footage from orbit to the moon. Begining at the 100 meter hover they should match with the LRO photo. That would be the best. We can do an overlay. We should be able to line up every crater.
As the lander was moving and horizontally and vertically I couldn't find a way of showing the smaller craters at the end and the bigger ones at the beginning of the video, so I used several images from the ASU's quick map (http://target.lroc.asu.edu/q3/).
1
(http://imageshack.com/a/img27/5272/ilqx.jpg)
2
(http://imageshack.com/a/img199/103/ij91.jpg)
3
(http://imageshack.com/a/img23/1351/0y78.jpg)
4
(http://imageshack.com/a/img801/8453/1o1g.jpg)
5
(http://imageshack.com/a/img6/7490/s09x.jpg)
6
(http://imageshack.com/a/img827/2497/rdy9.jpg)
7
(http://imageshack.com/a/img801/2172/v1mq.jpg)
8
(http://imageshack.com/a/img138/4589/2axl.jpg)
9
(http://imageshack.com/a/img827/1637/eepi.jpg)
10
(http://imageshack.com/a/img194/1492/598s.jpg)
Now the panorama with the craters identified as in image 10.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img811/51/1xbq.jpg)
Finally, the image published by the ASU, with the same labels as image 10.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img716/7959/9krq.jpg)
Sorry for the delay, I hope this (or similar) is what you wanted to see. :)
So, does the above "pin-pointing" of the locations on the lunar surface mean some of you are now accepting the fact that China's Rover is actually on the Moon?? Or, are you making some other point?? :)
Just wondering whether we ought to get serious about China's achievement, and about what China is accomplishing with this little moon shot?!
276 gold to 277 for Sir ArMaP
Really nice job there ArMaP. could not have done better myself.
Rdunk, this is the type of research we would love for you to do also. Dig in deeper and put things together. We have a solid location, a 4000 frame lander vid and a LRO spoting photo. See if they match up. ArMaP understood my question and did the matching even further back than I thought he would. If you remember, I was going to try from the 100 meter hover to the ground against the LRO and he went well beyond that mark.
What I think you might want to do is to try and match up at least one frame from a hover frame to the LRO frame and answer your own question. Once I figured out that all the photos were of TV frames it put the question on hold of fake or real until more info was given to us.
See what you can do with a test and let us know. I would like to see another shot at it to see if you find anything different. OK? You can even rotate or overlay photos or do inserts to show your findings.
Deuem
My question was for you guys who seem to have thought it possibly unreal. I am satisfied that China et al is wise enough to not chance the extreme embarrassment that would result from being caught, as they surely would have been, if they tried to "fake" a moon landing mission.
Excellent Armap. Gfy. I'm still frustrated at the lack of images from the rabbit . Time will tell.
Quote from: rdunk on January 05, 2014, 11:25:58 PM
So, does the above "pin-pointing" of the locations on the lunar surface mean some of you are now accepting the fact that China's Rover is actually on the Moon?? Or, are you making some other point?? :)
Just wondering whether we ought to get serious about China's achievement, and about what China is accomplishing with this little moon shot?!
Some other point, yes :D
(http://www.prlog.org/12263552-universal-mineral-lease-certificate-issued-to-peoples-republic-of-china.jpg)
Quote from: zorgon on January 06, 2014, 05:47:29 AM
Some other point, yes :D
(http://www.prlog.org/12263552-universal-mineral-lease-certificate-issued-to-peoples-republic-of-china.jpg)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/woot_jump.gif)
Very good, armap. I was inclined to think the landing might have
been faked. Looks like they actulally did it. Thanks
rubicon
Very nice work, ArMaP. +1g. Wish I could give more.
ArMaP YOU are the man! 8) gold for you again.
k'chang
Well done, ArMaP. I too gave You increase. [smile]
Thanks for the gold, everybody, too bad it's not real. :)
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww! I thought it was REAL . :'( :'( :'( :'(
I think he means the Gold not the landing. ArMaP to define real....
Quote from: deuem on January 07, 2014, 03:03:33 AM
I think he means the Gold not the landing. ArMaP to define real....
Yea, and my comment was about Z's gold too, and not about the landing!
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/greenstars.gif)
Finally, some high-quality photos from Chang'e 3!
Once again, tips from helpful users at nasaspaceflight.com and from Twitter have led me to a new pile of photos from the Chang'e 3 mission. And these are the best-quality ones I've seen yet. Almost all of the images I've seen to date have been shared through a bizarre roundabout method of projecting them on a screen, then filming them with a video camera, then aired on television, and then screen-grabbed. These photos are different: they are clearly direct from the original digital data. They're still not perfect -- they have been downsampled, contrast-enhanced, watermarked, and JPEG-compressed -- but they're so, so much better than what I've seen before, rich with detail and nuanced in color. They were also accompanied by a little bit of information about when they were taken, which is great. Here's the trove of images.
Emily Lakdawalla
This first one is really special:
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/20140110_2841_343762_884768_dewatermarked_f840_zpsb60e5d02.jpg)
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Earth from Change'3
The Chang'e 3 lunar lander captured this photo of Earth from the lunar surface on December 25 at 2:15 China time (December 24 at 18:15 UTC).
And these panoramic 360 views around lander and rover are new:
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/133035948_13893956028071n_zps557509e0.jpg)
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Panoramic view around the Chang'e 3 lander
Chang'e 3 captured the images for this panoramic view around the landing site on December 17 and 18, 2013. The images have been mosaicked into a polar azimuthal projection, showing the full 360 degrees of terrain around the lander
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/133035948_13893956031491n_zps82a2bef0.jpg)
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/01100912-finally-some-high-quality-change3.html
Moon rover, lander wake after lunar night
2014-01-13 08:38XinhuaWeb Editor: Mo Hong'e
China's moon rover "Yutu" (Jade Rabbit) and the Chang'e-3 lander have just "woken up" after a period of dormancy that lasted two weeks, or one lunar night, in a move designed to ride out harsh climactic conditions.[Special coverage]
Yutu was awakened autonomously at 5:09 a.m. Beijing Time on Saturday and has finished necessary setting procedures and entered a normal working mode following orders from the Beijing Aerospace Control Center (BACC), according to a statement issued by the BACC on Sunday.
See more: http://www.ecns.cn/2014/01-13/96589.shtml
China's Moon Rover Performs First Lunar Probe
2014-01-15 08:47XinhuaWeb Editor: Mo Hong'e
China's moon rover "Yutu", or Jade Rabbit, completed its first scientific exploration of lunar soil on Tuesday, the Beijing Aerospace Control Center (BACC) said.[Special coverage]
The rover used its mechanical arm to survey the lunar soil at 21:45 Beijing Time, following instructions from the control center, according to a BACC statement.
The exploration lasted about half an hour and every operation was precisely performed by the rover, it said.
"Accuracy control of the mechanical arm at a distance of 380,000 kilometers has been realized in the probe, making China's breakthrough in controlling a mechanical arm with high precision on the lunar surface," said Wu Fenglei of the BACC.
The rover completed an arm flexing assessment on Dec. 23, a key test before beginning the soil survey and other work on the surface, said the center.
Yutu will survey the moon's geological structure and surface substances and look for natural resources for three months, while the lander will conduct in-situ exploration at the landing site for one year.
http://www.ecns.cn/2014/01-15/96968.shtml
China's lunar probe observes stars, explores moon
by Staff Writers
Beijing (XNA) Jan 21, 2014
Moon lander Chang'e-3 and rover "Yutu" of China's lunar probe mission have collected a large amount space observation and moon exploration data, a government authority said on Friday.
A moon-based optical telescope on the lander has been observing lights from many celestial objects at near ultraviolet wavelengths, and has detected 23 stars, said a statement from the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence.
More:
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Chinas_lunar_probe_observes_stars_explores_moon_999.html
Interesting that the number 23 has been popping up... 23 stars. The number the Brazilian Nazi slave/orphan that played soccer (in another thread today) was also 23...
Quote from: Amaterasu on January 21, 2014, 11:18:16 PM
Interesting that the number 23 has been popping up... 23 stars. The number the Brazilian Nazi slave/orphan that played soccer (in another thread today) was also 23...
23 is a nice number. :)
You probably noticed that reply#206 just above also included Dec 23 in the text, to play along with the numbers thing! :)
Well, all is not well with China's Chang'e Rover 3. While their news release doesn't say much specifically about the problem, it seems they are open about it.
China Exclusive: China's moon rover experiences abnormality
English.news.cn 2014-01-25 15:01:46
BEIJING, Jan. 25 (Xinhua) --
China's moon rover, Yutu (Jade Rabbit), has experienced a mechanical control abnormality, and scientists are organizing repairs.
The abnormality occurred due to "complicated lunar surface environment," the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence (SASTIND) said on Saturday, without giving further details.
The abnormality emerged before the rover entered its second dormancy at dawn on Saturday as the lunar night fell, according to SASTIND.
The lander, another part of the Chang'e-3 probe, also "fell asleep" earlier on Friday.
The pair went dormant for two weeks about one month ago when the first lunar night of the mission occurred.
Two similar but different articles on this are below - the second article includes note of tens of thousands of the people's blessings having been extended to rover Yutu!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-01/25/c_133073239.htm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-01/26/c_133075811.htm
JUST a JOKE:
Looks like the scientists have to go into the next room and give the rover a kick in the butt to get it out of the sand trap. Why none of these craft don't use treads is beyond me. Tanks use them all the time. Scientist 1. You made the sand too sloft, scientist 2, no you made it too deep. I told you 50 mm not 50 cm! Now go dig it out and rack it clean again. Restart in two weeks. Scientist 1, yea ok but next time we use clay like the americans did.
Silly Deuem
So it will be "broken" for the public.
In the meantime rovering 8) the moon?
::)
Ha Ha!! Well, every day is a new day on the moon, except............one night on the moon lasts for about 14 days!
China too may play their own game, but thus far most everything seems to be pretty straight to me.
At least China claims to have a Rover that "moves on"! Rover Yutu travels a 200 yards per hour (120 inches per second), and NASA's Rover Opportunity 's maximum speed is 2 inches per second, while Curiosity's max sped is 1.5 inches per second - so much for American technology!!
That's it that little Rabbit is getting a speeding ticket.
What a shame 2 inches a second. Maybe in a million years it can travel the planet. Where is Flux to fix this slow moving turtle of the NASA world.
Deuem
The saga of Yutu continues!
Waiting for Yutu
by Morris Jones
Sydney, Australia (SPX) Feb 03, 2014
Yutu on the moon.
It's been more than a week since China's first robot lunar rover developed some serious mechanical problems. It was unable to fold one of its two solar panels inwards to protect its most sensitive components from the cold lunar night. We will need to wait longer to find out exactly how much damage Yutu has sustained from two weeks of darkness, but the prognosis for some of its parts is not good.
It's a shame that Yutu has suffered from these problems, but it is a common element of spaceflight. Yutu is the first Chinese rover to work in space, and it is operating in an environment that is even more hazardous than Mars.
More: http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Waiting_for_Yutu_999.html
Todays APOD, , , ,
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140203.html
Notice the missing tracks in the photo? How did it get there from where?
Pan far right to see the missing tracks. Or, did I miss something? Just waking up here with the morning hot drink.
Norval, I am sure that Armap or someone will come up with a plausible explanation for why there are no visible tracks; might have something to do with with it being a panorama composed of many different shots...
or it levitated... 8)
seeker
ahhh almost awake now, , thanks, , yeppers yer probably correct, , because of the panoramic shots overlaid the tracks, , DOHHHhhh :-[
Quote from: Norval on February 03, 2014, 03:17:26 PM
Todays APOD, , , ,
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140203.html
Notice the missing tracks in the photo? How did it get there from where?
Pan far right to see the missing tracks. Or, did I miss something? Just waking up here with the morning hot drink.
Doesn't appear to be a 360 degree panorama, maybe 180 at the most.(I don't know - maybe more, but it doesn't look 360) Fair amount of missing landscape in my opinion. Plus it notes the rover will be heading to the right, so tracks could certainly be out of view.
Quote from: rdunk on January 27, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Ha Ha!! Well, every day is a new day on the moon, except............one night on the moon lasts for about 14 days!
China too may play their own game, but thus far most everything seems to be pretty straight to me.
At least China claims to have a Rover that "moves on"! Rover Yutu travels a 200 yards per hour (120 inches per second), and NASA's Rover Opportunity 's maximum speed is 2 inches per second, while Curiosity's max sped is 1.5 inches per second - so much for American technology!!
Me thinks someone needs to re-do the math; 200 yards= 600 feet per hour= 10 feet per minute=2 inches per second...
seeker
Quote from: the seeker on February 03, 2014, 03:59:22 PM
Me thinks someone needs to re-do the math; 200 yards= 600 feet per hour= 10 feet per minute=2 inches per second...
seeker
Bwahahahahaha! You are right seeker! I am not even going back to see where that came from! :)
Quote from: the seeker on February 03, 2014, 03:42:55 PM
Norval, I am sure that Armap or someone will come up with a plausible explanation for why there are no visible tracks; might have something to do with with it being a panorama composed of many different shots...
That's the most likely explanation. :)
Ok everyone, get out your Kleenex for the tears! There may be a funeral to be scheduled for China's Moon Rover Yutu. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ;)
Farewell to Yutu
by Morris Jones
Sydney, Australia (SPX) Feb 12, 2014
"By now, it seems almost certain that China's Yutu Moon rover has died a premature death in the cold lunar night. The rover has been exposed to sunlight for a few days, and there has been no word of it waking up.
Yutu was carried to the Moon aboard China's Chang'e-3 Moon lander, a boxy structure reminiscent of the base of an Apollo lunar lander from the 1960s. Chang'e-3 made history by becoming China's first mission to land on the Moon, and the first object to softly land there in more than three decades.
Yutu's problems began roughly three weeks ago when a solar panel failed to fold inwards over the rover's body, just before night fell at the rover's landing site. The folding panel was designed to protect the rover's interior during the two-week lunar night, by trapping heat from a radioisotope source. Without this protection, the rover's electronics have apparently frozen".
Please note, the author of this article does say, "it seems ALMOST certain" - "Certainty" will have to come from China.
Full article:
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Farewell_to_Yutu_999.html
My guess is that whoever designed this contrapion will be fired! The electronics should have been protected even if fail mode. When designing anything worth while. Deuem rule #1: Design it to fail in your favor. Not always easy to do but if you think it through it can be done. Does it spring open or closed. If you want it to fail in the closed mode then that is how it should be designed. You work to keep it open.
Deuem
deuem..sometimes toys break :'(
I know but this is a multi-million dollar toy, that was desinged to fail. I wonder what testing they did. PRC IG should build one. 8) The moment they said it had to close otherwise fail I knew it would fail. Someone cut the wrong corners. IMO.
Deuem
Well Deuem you may be right. But, over my life I have worked with almost every area of aircraft and broad-scale electronic engineering. They design to cost and design specifications, to include whatever the lifecycle requirements are. Of course, with anything that lifts off the surface of the earth, weight is at the top of the list of #! important things to a satisfactory design.
But, in such case as this, there is always to expect the "face-saving" reason for a premature failure. In this case, I am reasonably certain the failure will be attributed to Moon "Global Cooling", because of the quietness of the Sun! :)
Most engineers her design stuff to fail or right on the min level that is not taken very well. Once they do this it is very hard to re-train them to make something to work for longer than it is plugged in at the store. If they used a design crew that does this for a living, that is where the failure started. It is not that cold on the moon. Even if one wrong part was in there, that is all it takes.
I would need to see the entire plans, drawing and testing they did to make a real call. This I will never get. But I think a head or two will roll on this no matter what happened. It is the way of the socity. it is too bad it had to fail, it was just getting interesting.
Deuem
Do electronics "freeze"?
Quote from: ArMaP on February 12, 2014, 09:24:02 AM
Do electronics "freeze"?
I am no expert, but extreme cold is ot good for displays and batteries.
Won't power supplies freeze?
Quote from: rdunk on February 13, 2014, 12:27:08 AM
I am no expert, but extreme cold is ot good for displays and batteries.
LCD displays freeze because they are "Liquid Crystal Displays", batteries may be affected because of a lower internal resistance, as cold reduces the resistance.
Depending on how circuit boards are mounted or set up, when it gets cold or frozen, other things can move and the lines on the board can snap. One snapped run can ruin the entire board if it is not set up redundant.
I still think there is a error in their setup that allows it to fail at all for this reason. This is dangerous work to start with for electronics.
Deuem
Well, this story is not dead yet!! China says, "Yutu ain't dead yet"!
China's lunar rover "awakes" despite abnormality:
BEIJING, Feb. 13 (Xinhua)
China's moon rover Yutu has waken up from a troubled dormancy although experts are still trying to figure out the cause of its abnormality, a spokesman with the country's lunar probe program said on Thursday.
"Yutu has come back to life!" said Pei Zhaoyu, the spokesperson.
Pei said the moon rover, named after the pet of a lunar goddess in ancient Chinese mythology, has now been restored to its normal signal reception function. But experts are still working to verify the causes of its mechanical control abnormality.
The abnormality emerged before Yutu entered its second dormancy on the moon on Jan. 25 as the lunar night fell.
"Yutu went into sleep under an abnormal status," Pei said , adding that experts were initially concerned that it might not be able to survive the extremely low temperatures during the lunar night.
"The rover stands a chance of being saved now that it is still alive," he said.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2014-02/13/c_133111548.htm
This has signs of Vger all over it.
Glad to hear this. Guess the ice cubes got knocked off the chips. Hope they close the door next time.
Maybe the aliens fixed it for the Chinese. I hope the sweeped up their foot prints.
Deuem
China's Yutu lunar rover finds moon geography more complex than thoughtby Bob Yirka
Quote(Phys.org)—A team of researchers working on China's Chang'E-3 lunar mission has found multiple distinct geographic rock layers beneath the surface of the moon, indicating a much more complex geographical history than was previously thought by most in the scientific community. In their paper published in the journal Science, the team describes their analysis of data sent back by the Yutu rover.
On December 14, 2013, China's China's Chang'E-3 spacecraft touched down on the surface of the moon, the first to conduct a soft landing since the Soviet Union sent craft back in 1976. A few hours after landing, a rover named Yutu (Jade Rabbit) was released from the craft and set off on a zig-zag course across the nearby terrain. Onboard the rover was a variety of sensor equipment, one of which offered Lunar Penetrating Radar (LPR) capable of probing up to 400 meters below the lunar surface. The rover captured subsurface data for approximately a month before technical problems caused it to shut down.
In this new report, the researchers studying the data sent back by the rover report that LPR revealed nine distinct rock layers beneath the surface, indicating a geographical history far more complex than has been theorized. The layering is due, apparently, to lava flows which were mixed with regolith (lunar dust formed by weathering). The data sent back from Yutu is the first to reveal deep subsurface details—during the Apollo missions, drills were used to gather samples of subsurface rock, but they only penetrated to a depth of three meters.
The team notes that in studying the rock layers, they made two important finds, the first was that the evidence shows that the moon has had far more volcanic activity than has been thought and the second was that the area under study showed that in addition to basalt there was pyroclastic rocks, an indication of explosive activity. Most who have studied the moon have believed that volatile gasses trapped in the mantle escaped while the moon was still forming. This new evidence suggests that was not the case.
The team also notes that the composition of the geography where Yutu was operating appeared to be quite different from that observed by the U.S.'s Apollo missions and the U.S.S.R.'s Luna missions.
http://phys.org/news/2015-03-china-yutu-lunar-rover-moon.html (http://phys.org/news/2015-03-china-yutu-lunar-rover-moon.html)