Underwater Extraterrestrial Bases Discovered in Florida
The Gulf Breeze UFO incident is a famous series of UFO sightings which occurred beginning on November 11, 1987.
Gulf Breeze was a small city in Florida of approximately 6,000 at the time of a wave of UFO sightings that began in late 1987. News of high-quality UFO photos spread rapidly and worldwide and became the subject of newspaper and magazine articles, television talk shows and feature programs.
The "Gulf Breeze UFO Incident" most definitive evidence is a series of photographs and contact claims made by Ed Walters that began, for him, on November 11, 1987. Walters reported and documented a series of UFO sightings over a period of three weeks. The photographs of the craft were unusually clear and initially Walters' claims generated great excitement. Research by Jerry Black in the early 1990s revealed a trail of suspicious money leading to Walters, giving the initial indications that the case was a hoax.[1]
Over subsequent years, new evidence including the discovery of a model in a house once owned by Walters, similar to the UFOs in his photographs, shifted majority opinion to believe that Walters' photos of the 1987 sightings were faked. The model was found by Robert Menzer, who was quoted stating, "The model was 9 inches long across the top and 5 inches deep. Made of "two nine-inch foam plates attached to two six-inch foam plates; a six inch square blue-color gel (plastic film) and on six inch round orange paper ring, a 3.5 inch long tube, and a 2 inch wide paper ring between the 2 nine-inch plates. There were windows drawn on the model which was covered with drafting paper."[2]
Although Ed Walters was the nexus of the Gulf Breeze sightings, he was not the only person to claim a sighting. According to ufocasebook.com, an estimated 200+ others came forward with sightings, videos and/or photographs during a three-year period.[citation needed]. On December 2, 2010, the Syfy series Fact or Faked investigated another UFO video shot in 2009 where the object in the video is similar to the one(s) Ed Walters caught on camera.
UFO Hunters is an American television series that premiered on January 30, 2008 on The History Channel, produced by Motion Picture Production Inc., and ran for three seasons.
Jon Alon Walz was the Executive Producer of the show and was responsible for selling the series to History Channel after a bidding war for the rights to the show broke out between History Channel and Sci-Fi Channel (now Syfy).[citation needed]
The concept for the show was tested in a segment of History Channel's 2006 UFO special entitled "Deep Sea UFOs", produced by Motion Picture Production Inc, which featured two of the final four cast members. "UFO Hunters" was not a spin-off from a 2005 History Channel special with the same title.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu_XKfyEnNE
Are we not requred to link when quoting from Wiki then?
Sounds hoaxed in my opinion, I can see some relation to the Gulf Breeze Prophecies, a MILAB sort of experince in my opinion.
Ed was either in on it, or a victim - Model may suggest 'inness'.
Can't watch the video at the moment, so that's just based off the text.
Hi Sinny,
It may be the 1st video I have watched on USO's..
Although I think others on PRC have posted others or made comments on them..Karl certainly...who when I can I hope to look at his threads.
Something's shown in the video certainly do not offer any real evidence...but at the same time there does seem a LOT of sighting's that suggest something's been happening in and around that area.
One Guy who is interviewed in the video certainly sounds convincing about his research into USO's..
Some of the imagery video scenes looked impressive and thought provoking !
If UFOs are here I am sure that they would also go into the water zones...of this planet.
Quote from: astr0144 on January 30, 2014, 04:41:19 PM
If UFOs are here I am sure that they would also go into the water zones...of this planet.
Agreed :D
Quote from: Sinny on January 30, 2014, 12:42:50 PM
Are we not required to link when quoting from Wiki then?
Anything published on Wiki is provided copyright free and allows you to use the content as you see fit provided that YOU share your work under the same condition. In other words if you write something using that free content you cannot then claim copyright
Generally I recommend providing the wiki link for two reasons
1) etiquette as its not your work so be nice :P
2) Wiki although not necessarily an authoritative source has many other citations and links that the reader may wish to follow
That being said I have cut and pasted many small snippets from Wiki and other free sources into my texts, mostly when looking for descriptions etc. Saves time and saying the sun is yellow can only be said so many ways :D
Gulf Breeze Boyd Bushman Lockheed Martin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP5JgG1-0jg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP5JgG1-0jg
Quote from: astr0144 on January 30, 2014, 03:41:16 AM
Underwater Extraterrestrial Bases Discovered in Florida
The Gulf Breeze UFO incident is a famous series of UFO sightings which occurred beginning on November 11, 1987.
Great thread topic Astr0144 and I don't know about an ET base but there's certainly been
loads of very strange UFO (and USO) sightings around the Santa Catalina Channel area off the California Coastline over the decades - it's a big shame the first link about Californian UFO Encounters doesn't work anymore as it went into quite some detail but here are some saved paragraphs:
Dates:
Quote(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a85babd55c6e.gif)
"The first California underwater UFO was on July 7, 1947 when two San Raphael teen-agers saw a "flat glistening object" emerge from the water, fly around and then dive back into the water 400 yards from shore. Throughout this same year, numerous steamers reported a mysterious 'undersea mountain' or a 'large mass underwater' which kept appearing and disappearing in various locations in the San Francisco Bay and down the coast.
Following this, the sightings came regularly, in 1951, 1954, 1955, 1957, 1962, 1964, 1970, 1980, 1990, 1991, 1993, 2004 the list goes on, most from the Santa Catalina channel. The sightings involve many highly credible witnesses including lifeguards, security guards, law enforcement officials, military officers and countless citizens.[/b]
Quotes:
QuoteArticle: Fate Magazine, February 2006
..Most of these reports came from a certain stretch of California coastline, from about Santa Barbara south to Long Beach. This particular body of water, I soon learned, had a widespread reputation as a UFO hotspot. After several witnesses told me they believed there was an underwater UFO base there, I decided to conduct a more in-depth investigation to determine the truth.
My first step was to survey the research of other prominent investigators. To my surprise, most of the local researchers were already aware of the sightings.
Writes Ann Druffel,
"This body of water lies between the coastlines of Southern California and Santa Catalina Island, 20 miles offshore to the southwest. The area has for at least thirty years been the scene of UFO reports of all kinds: surface sightings of hazy craft which cruise leisurely in full view of military installations, aerial spheres bobbing in oscillating flight, gigantic cloud-cigars, and at least one report of an underwater UFO with uniformed occupants."
Another researcher, Robert Stanley, editor of the now defunct magazine Unicus, writes,
"Even in the sixties, families were going down to the beach and waiting for a UFO to pass by.... By the 1970s, whole families were going down to the beach at Point Dume at night to watch the multi-colored UFOs [that] would sink under the water at times."
MUFON field investigator Bill Hamilton writes,
"For years witnesses have seen many types of UFO cruising off the Palos Verdes Peninsula in Southern California. UFOs have actually been seen to come out of the water in the San Pedro Channel."
I had already uncovered several firsthand cases myself. My next step was to put together a comprehensive list of all the recorded ocean-going encounters in the area.
I came up with more than 50 sightings..
Coastal Sightings
Quote1953: Engineer Frederick Hehr and several others are on Santa Monica beach when they observe a "squadron of saucers" performing maneuvers in the daylight sky over the bay. Later that day, the objects return and perform more maneuvers for a period of about ten minutes.
July 10, 1955: Around 11:00 a.m., several fishermen off the coast of Newport Beach observe a bluish-silver, cigar-shaped object flying overhead at a "moderate speed and medium altitude." Two and a half hours later, a Washington family of three are sailing 13 miles off the coast of Newport Beach on their way to Catalina Island when they observe a "perfectly round, gray-white" craft about 2,500 feet above their boat. When the object maintains its position over their boat, they radio the Coast Guard, which sends out a plane. The object darts away before the plane arrives.
November 6, 1957: Early morning in Playa Del Rey, three cars driving along the Pacific Coast Highway suddenly stall when a large "egg-shaped object" surrounded in a "blue haze" lands on the beach only a few yards away.
Witnesses Richard Kehoe, Ronald Burke, and Joe Thomas exit their cars and observe two strange-looking men disembarking from the object. The UFO occupants have "yellowish-green skin" and wear "black leather pants, white belts and light colored jerseys." They walk up to the witnesses and begin asking questions. Kehoe and the others are unable to understand the occupants, who are apparently speaking a foreign language. After a few moments, the figures return to the object, which takes off and accelerates out of sight.
That same day at 3:50 p.m., an officer and 12 airmen from an Air Force detachment in nearby Long Beach observe six saucer-shaped objects zooming across the sky. Two hours later, officers at Los Alamitos Naval Air Station report seeing "numerous" objects criss-crossing the sky. At the same time, police stations in Long Beach receive more than 100 calls from residents reporting UFOs.
December 1957: The crew of the British steamship Ramsey observes a large metallic gray disk with antenna-like projections off the coast of San Pedro. One of the crewmen grabs his camera and captures a blurry photo of the object before it moves away.
1960: Actor Chad Everett and two friends are on the rooftop of his Beverly Hills home one night when they observe a lighted object moving back and forth at high speeds over the nearby ocean. Because the object moves so quickly and at right angles, the witnesses are convinced it is a genuine UFO.
1970: As investigated by Bill Hamilton, an anonymous gentleman sailing from Catalina Island to San Pedro Harbor observes a metallic saucer with four "hemispherical pods" underneath it flying only a few hundred feet above his boat.
May 1973: Art director George Gray (pseudonym) observes an object sending down a beam of light while driving along the Pacific Coast Highway in Santa Monica in the pre-dawn hours:
"The UFO was over where the beach was...hovering I would say maybe a hundred, two hundred feet in the air. It was silver. It was your basic UFO...it was definitely completely metallic with a silver dome on top and a silver dome on the bottom of it, like two plates put together. And it had little lights around it."
Gray is able to bring in additional witnesses before the object moves away.
Summer 1988: Professional photographer Kim Carlsberg observes a darting, star-like object while relaxing in her Malibu beachfront home. Suddenly, the object moves directly toward her.
"The brilliant point of light advanced until it became a luminous sphere some fifty feet in diameter," reports Carlsberg. "It ominously hung in the air a hundred feet from my window... the apparent standoff lasted no more than a minute before the sphere departed as quickly as it appeared. It tore away diagonally through the night sky and vanished."
Summer 1990: Private pilot Toshi Inouye and his student observe a large, red, glowing cigar-shaped object hovering near their plane as they fly over the Santa Monica Bay in late afternoon.
"It was standing still in the air, glowing red," says Inouye. "We were kind of stunned. We didn't know what to do."
Inouye considers calling the nearby airport control tower when the object suddenly darts away.
May 4, 1990: Early in the morning, two Malibu surfers are lying on their surfboards waiting for the next wave when they observe a,
"brushed aluminum saucer with a bump in the middle [which] approached the shoreline from out of the fog bank sitting about a mile offshore."
The object darts back and forth then moves back out to sea.
1998: Adam (pool-cleaner) and Mario (military private) are driving along the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu when they see six black, diamond-shaped objects darting at high speed up and down the coast. The two men are so impressed by the brief sighting that they spend the next hour driving up and down the coast hoping for a repeat appearance. While they don't see any more UFOs, they do find other UFO watchers.
Says Adam,
"We did come across a couple of people who were just sitting in their lawn chairs along the road. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but they were just sitting there along the side of the road, just looking up."
January 3, 2004: Young Chyren is standing along the Santa Monica coast at midday when he observes a metallic, saucer-shaped craft hovering only a few thousand feet directly above a small yacht less than a mile out at sea. He quickly grabs his camera and snaps a photograph.
Into the Ocean:
QuoteNovember 21, 1951: As reported by researcher Harold Wilkins, several witnesses observe "an unidentified burning object" descending into the ocean somewhere off the coast of California.
August 8, 1954: The Japanese steamship Aliki is off the coast of Long Beach when several members of the crew observe an underwater UFO.
As the intercepted radio message from the ship reads,
"Saw fireball move in and out of sea without being doused. Left wake of white smoke; course erratic; vanished from sight."
1955: Residents from the northern California coastal town of Santa Maria observe a "long silvery object" emerging from the ocean and taking off into space.
January 15, 1956 (Evening): Residents of Redondo Beach report seeing a large, glowing object glide down out of the sky and float on the surface of the ocean about 75 yards off shore.
Dozens of witnesses converge on the scene, including a local night watchman, Redondo Beach lifeguards, and police officers from adjacent Hermosa Beach. As the crowd gathers, the water around the object starts to "froth" and the UFO sinks beneath the surface. The glow of the object, however, remains so intense that it can still be seen.
Police officers radio for assistance and divers are brought in to investigate. Unfortunately, by the time the divers arrive, the object is gone. Another police officer tests the area with a Geiger counter, which fails to register any radiation. Another search the next day also yields no results.
February 9, 1956: Military personnel observe a fireball descending into the ocean off the coast of Redondo Beach. One year later, UFO researcher Leonard Stringfield obtains an official report on the incident, which says only:
"Fireball hits water. Submerges."
July 28, 1962: The captain of a chartered fishing boat notices lights floating in a stationary position in the water about six miles south of Catalina Island.
Upon closer observation, the captain is startled to see what he assumes at first is a Russian sub:
"It appeared to be the stern of a submarine," he says. "We could see five men, two in white garb, two in dark trousers and white shirts, and one in a sky-blue jump suit. We passed abeam at about a quarter mile and I was certain it was a submarine low in the water, steel gray, no markings, decks almost awash, with only its tail and an odd aft-structure showing."
Suddenly the submarine heads straight for the fishing boat as if to ram it. The captain makes an emergency turn as the sub moves past them at high speed, emitting no noise and leaving no wake except for a "good-sized swell." The captain contacts the navy, which is unable to positively identify the sub.
UFO researchers Coral and Jim Lorenzen hear about the case and speculate that it may have been a UFO and not a submarine:
"The high speed, lack of wake and sound, and the huge swell make this object suspect."
One might also mention the odd shape of the submarine itself, its lack of fear of observation, and its aggressive maneuvering.
February 5, 1964: Eleven passengers are rescued by the Coast Guard from their emergency raft following the unexplained sinking of their yacht, the Hattie D. The crew was sailing south down the coast of California from Seattle, Washington, when their yacht either struck or was rammed by an unidentified "metal object."
Crewman Carl Jansen says,
"I don't care how deep it was...what holed us was steel, and a long piece. There was no give at all."
December 2, 1965: Mrs. Irwin Cohen and her son observe a glowing red object descending into the sea off San Pedro, setting off a large cloud of steam. As the object descends, the witnesses snap a few photos. They wonder if they witnessed a Navy missile or some other unknown object.
October 1968: George Hiner is fishing in his boat off the eastern end of Catalina Island when he spots a "white-domed shaped object" (sic) through his binoculars. As he watches, the object rises ten feet above the surface of the water, then descends and rises again. He notices a strange parachute-like device beneath the object, which gently descends and then sinks beneath the waves.
June 1980: Therapist Linda Susan Young and a friend are driving along the Pacific Coast Highway in Santa Monica at night when Young observes an unusually bright light floating in place several miles out to sea.
Young was puzzled by its appearance and turned to tell her friend:
"I said to the guy with me, 'What do you suppose this is?' And he turned around and looked at it. And he only saw it for a second when it just shot straight up in the air and blinked out. It didn't look like it went far enough to disappear from view, like a distance. It just sort of stopped. It just stopped being there...I have always assumed it was a UFO."
1980s: An anonymous gentleman (a senior electronics engineer) sailing on a foggy day between Santa Barbara Island and Santa Cruz Island observes a "fluorescent green colored light" ahead of him in the mist. Thinking it was another ship using bright lights to navigate the fog, he stops and waits for it to pass. As it approaches, however, he is still unable to distinguish any detail.
When it is a quarter mile away and heading directly toward him, the witness discovers why:
"I finally realized that this dumb thing was underwater...I'm guessing it was—I don't know—maybe 300 feet in diameter, but I couldn't get any vertical dimension on it because it was under me in the water. It literally passed directly underneath me."
The witness is sailing a fully equipped, 38-foot sailboat. As the object passes beneath him, he takes several readings from the depth sounder, determining that the object is about 100 feet deep. At this point, both depth sounders quit functioning. The witness checks his compasses.
"All three of them were slowly rotating and I wasn't... I tried calling the Coast Guard and the radio was dead."
The object moves away and disappears, leaving the witness badly frightened. A later check on his equipment reveals that all the compass mountings were broken. Says the witness of the incident,
"It was weird. I was just too damned petrified to move."
Underwater Lights:
Quote1990: According to investigator Bill Hamilton, starting in late 1989 numerous witnesses in Marina Del Rey begin to have repeated encounters with "strange blue-green lights in the water."
As Hamilton writes,
"In 1989 and again in 1990, witnesses have seen as many as twenty events an hour. One large light appeared to be as much as 100 feet in diameter. This large light spawned babies no larger than 10 to 12 feet in length. These lights were seen to move swiftly under the ocean's surface some 500 to 1000 feet from the coastline in Abalone Cove...one of the lights was reported to have emerged from the water."
Spring 1991: In the early morning hours, Tony X. looks out the window of his Malibu beachfront home and observes a brilliantly lit object floating on the ocean's surface about two miles away.
"It looked like a big prism," says Tony, "kind of various colors out there. I got a telescope out there and looked at it."
After a few hours, the light winks out.
Two years later, in January 1993, the object returns.
"I got the telescope out and looked at it, and it was the same kind of thing...the colors seemed so pure for lack of a better word. They seemed real coherent."
Tony calls up the Coast Guard, but they deny having any information.
May 5, 1992: Two friends walking along Malibu Beach observe a "sort of light/fireball" descend from the sky and into the ocean. Says one witness,
"It was going at an incredible speed and it was less than a mile away. It looked like it hit the ocean.... Once the object made its way to the ocean's surface, it disappeared, so my guess is that it went underwater."
1994: Two men walking near the coast of Rancho Palos Verdes at night see several "glowing disks" floating in the water. One of the witnesses returns at a later date and sees the disks again. On this occasion, he observes several black helicopters in the area. Later, he is confronted by unnamed individuals (men in black?) who tell him in no uncertain terms that this area, off Abalone Cove, is off-limits.
January 11, 2002: An anonymous gentleman camping along the coast at Point Mugu sees a light moving back and forth 100 feet above the water, and two other lights beneath the surface of the sea. The objects dart back and forth in tandem for 30 minutes (moving unlike any plane or helicopter), giving the witness the impression that they are searching for something. Afterwards, the light in the sky accelerates out of sight and the two objects in the water dive down and disappear.
Link (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects54.htm)
The part in the doco you posted which describes the events of June 14th, 1992 is a really interesting one and does mention multiple witnesses 'as far away as Malibu' - one of the blokes who phones up the police to report the incident sounds truly disturbed and really do wonder what happened there - Preston Dennet (who also appears on the doco) conducted quite a bit of research into this case and there are parts of his free E-book below which also go into more detail.
QuoteThe Santa Catalina Channel separates mainland California from the island of Catalina, this particular stretch of water is as deep as Mount Everest is high and UFO's/USO's have been seen both entering the water and emerging from its murky depths.
But on June 14th 1992 , there were reportedly hundreds of USO's observed rising from the water.
Independent witnesses claim that there were in excess of two hundred USO's that emerged from the water, hovering momentarily before accelerating off into the sky at blistering speeds, all the while in complete silence.
There were many witnesses, many of whom filed reports with their respective local police forces, some of which were as far away as Malibu.
These reports quickly filtered through to the US coast guard who subsequently refused all requests to search the area of the sightings.
Recording of witness phone call to police:
"I'm ashamed to tell you cause you're gonna' think I?m crazy -I have never been more frightened in my life"
E-book:
QuoteUFOs over Topanga Canyon: eyewitness accounts of the California sightings By Preston E. Dennett
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24faceb4418c.jpg)
QuoteFor more than 50 years, strange activity has been going on in the sky over Topanga Canyon. But the night of June 14, 1992 marked the beginning of a UFO wave of gigantic proportions. On that evening, more than 17 different witnesses observed numerous strange craft flying through the canyon. The activity would continue for more than two years and involve the entire range of UFO phenomenon including sightings, landings, UFO car chases, face-to-face encounters missing time abductions, government cover-up and more. Today, there are more than one hundred witnesses to the activity.
Link (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8NMKKIV2518C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Preston+Dennett+ufo&source=bl&ots=cB6RsXCyUO&sig=2Ri2Rw4CuRHOCqwsbgk4boQL-EA&hl=en&ei=v9LFS_6qH4jx-QaWjZ2zDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Preston%20Dennett%20ufo&f=false)
Cheers.
Other strange UFO reports from the area:
QuoteMap:
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/940035dcc159.jpg)
QuoteWe are concerned specifically here with a rectangular area between thirty-three (33) degrees and thirty-four (34) degrees latitude north and between one-hundred-nineteen (119) degrees and one-hundred-seventeen point five (11.7.5) degrees longitude west. Other "channel" and "basin" areas, named for the cities and islands associated with them, are involved here in question, is more meaningful. In most cases, the objects were viewed between the mainland and the large off-shore island of Santa Catalina.
QuoteSanta Catalina UFO -December,1973.
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/69539b6a067f.jpg)
Quote..The two witnesses took turns studying the light through a 16-power Navy spyglass, which they were able to steady on a ledge at Klinn's residence. As seen through the telescope, the "blob" resolved into a precise arrangement of round, yellow-gold lights. Though the entire mass appeared larger than Venus with the naked eye, through the 'scope the lights encompassed an area of approximately three (3) millimeters.
They were arranged in a vertical column bisecting a horizontal column of equal length. Additional columns of light appeared and arranged themselves into a nearly perfect light-studded triangle. The witnesses adjusted the telescope, and when Klinn again looked through it about three minutes later, the complex of lights had assumed the shape of a huge, cigar-shaped "machine." Its edges were clearcut against the sky. Along its side was a horizontal row of about five huge, fiery round lights along the length of the object. These lights were very much larger and brighter than the ones observed earlier; in fact, the entire object had expanded in size at least twenty times.
Each light held tremendous activity within it, "as if looking inside a boiling steel furnace, and even more so". Their primary color was yellow, but many other colors were visible in their teeming mass. As the witnesses watched astounded, the first light ballooned up "like a critical explosion" and smashed through the light directly to its right. That one in turn seemed to flare up, as did each in the entire row, as the first fireball traversed the entire row. At the extreme right, the fiery,explosive light paused and pulsated about twice per second; then the smashing reaction returned along the row of lights from right to left. The entire trip back and forth took an estimated thirteen (13) seconds.As this was happening, a fin-shaped appendage with a vertical row of smaller yellow lights was moving back and forth along the top of the cigar-shaped object "in a very mechanical way"..
Santa Catalina Channel "Cloud Cigars" - 1976 CUFOS Conference (http://www.anndruffel.com/articles/ufo/santacatalinachannelcloudcigars.htm)
Strange USO incident from 1989:
Quote1989
Santa Catalina Channel, Ca
QuoteA large object was observed by several witnesses. This object was also picked up on sonar. It was floating on the surface of the Pacific ocean. Several smaller ufo's were released from this mother-ship prior to its submerging. Sonar tracking had it heading south towards the Santa Catalina Channel before disappearing.
USO Sightings (http://www.ufo-reports.com/Shag-Harbour.html)
QuoteQuoteIn 1989, a large object was seen by multiple witnesses (and picked up on sonar) resting on the surface of the water in the Pacific Ocean. It released several, smaller objects before submerging. It was tracked on sonar heading south towards the Santa Catalina Channel before disappearing.
Deep Sea UFOs (http://www.eso-garden.com/specials/deep_sea_ufos.pdf)
Around 1990 I was trucking west bound I 10 somewhere between Pensacola and Biloxi one rainy afternoon when during the thunderstorm with dark low clouds I just happened to look to my left towards the gulf and a huge green fireball lit up and traveled parallel to the ground and as it went, it went in and out of the clouds with sparks trailing down its westerly direction. What a site. No noise but plenty of green light flickering off and in the clouds as sparks fell following the green fireball.
Thanks for your addition Karl ...
After I did a quick search on USO's to see if anyone had posted that video..your name was on quite a few threads !
So I knew you had some knowledge on them...Interesting what you have shown... will try to check it out more when I can..
Gigas... I bet you had quite a few unusual experiences driving around the USA in that truck of yours !...and been around & seen some varied interesting places..
My 2 cents:
Bottom of the link and following page - over 30 Gulf Breeze UFO threads:
http://www.scovetta.com/archives/textfiles/ufo/ufobbs/1000/page-11