An interesting piece on what scientists believe they have found, relative to thought on the beginning of this universe.
And like ripples from a ball kicked into a pond, that Big Bang-fueled expansion caused ripples in the ancient light from that event, light which remains imprinted in the skies in a leftover glow called the cosmic microwave background.
Scientists still don't know who kicked the ball.
But if confirmed, the newfound ripples would be amazing proof of what has long been mere theory about what happened in those first millionths of a second.
Published March 17, 2014FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/03/17/major-discovery-smoking-gun-for-big-bang-expansion-found/
I watched a lecture last night from a devot Christian, one who takes the Bible literally.
I've got to say, even though I do not take all the Bible literally, he raised some good points.
He pointed out several flaws in our 'scientific' knowledge and testing..
And concluded, Cristianity may be founded on one book and faith.. But our current scientists have no fair basis to rule any of it out as A LOT of their scientific results are ALSO based on MANY ASSUMPTIONS and GUESSES. Which is of course all true.
Even if the big bang happended, they haven't got any logical reason for it occuring.
Neither Science nor Faith solves the mystery of life - so I think they both need to take a step back.
I certainly don't expect religious folks to understand science considering some of the illogical beliefs they hold. For all it's holes, science still makes better sense than a magical fairy in the sky shaking a wand and *poof* things happen... "because".
This is Yahoos version..
Astronomers have found the first direct evidence of cosmic inflation, the theorized dramatic expansion of the universe that put the "bang" in the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago, new research suggests.
Related Stories
Major discovery bolsters Big Bang theory of universe AFP Discovery Bolsters Big-Bang Theory The Wall Street Journal Harvard-Smithsonian Scientists Have the 'First Direct Evidence of Cosmic Inflation' The Atlantic Wire Evidence spotted for universe's early growth spurt Associated Press If it holds up, the landmark discovery — which also confirms the existence of hypothesized ripples in space-time known as gravitational waves — would give researchers a much better understanding of the Big Bang and its immediate aftermath.
"If it is confirmed, then it would be the most important discovery since the discovery, I think, that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," Harvard astronomer Avi Loeb, who is not a member of the study team, told Space.com, comparing the finding to a 1998 observation that opened the window on mysterious dark energy and won three researchers the 2011 Nobel Prize in physics. [The Big Bang to Now in 10 Easy Steps]
A team led by John Kovac, of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, is announcing the results today (March 17), unveiling two manuscripts that have not yet been submitted to peer-reviewed journals. To understand just what the detection of an inflation "smoking gun" would mean, a little background about the universe's first instants is in order. Kovac's team will discuss the results in a news conference today at 12 p.m. EDT (1600 GMT).
The universe grows up
The brief and astonishing inflationary epoch transformed the infant universe from mere quantum fluctuations into something of macroscopic size, adherents of the theory say.
Beginning just 10 to the minus 35 seconds (roughly one trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second) after the universe's birth, the idea goes, space-time expanded incredibly rapidly, ballooning outward faster than the speed of light. (This did not violate Albert Einstein's theory of special relativity, which holds that nothing can move faster than light through space, since inflation was an expansion of space itself.)
..View gallery The sun sets behind BICEP2 (in the foreground) and the South Pole Telescope (in the background).Basic inflation theory has been supported over the years by several different space missions that mapped out the cosmic microwave background (CMB), the ancient light that began saturating the universe about 380,000 years after the Big Bang. (Before this time, the universe was a sizzling fog of plasma and energy too hot for photons to travel freely.)
While the CMB contains tiny temperature variations, it is, for the most part, strikingly uniform across the entire sky — a property that bolsters the inflation concept, researchers say.
"Why the cosmic microwave background temperature is the same at different spots in the sky would be a mystery if it was not for inflation saying, well, our whole sky came from this tiny region," Chuck Bennett, principal investigator of NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) mission, told Space.com last year. "So the idea of inflation helps answer some of these mysteries, and it explains where these fluctuations came from."
But astronomers had never claimed to find a smoking gun for inflation — until now.
Polarized light
The smoking gun is a type of polarization in the CMB known as "B-modes." The spectacular expansion of the universe during inflation produced gravitational waves, which, in turn, generated the B-modes, according to the theory.
..View gallery Gravitational waves from inflation generate a faint but distinctive twisting pattern in the polariza ...So multiple teams have been hunting for the B-modes; indeed, Bennett last year referred to their detection as "the current Holy Grail of the business." In the new study announced today, Kovac and his team report that they have spotted the characteristic swirls of B-mode polarization using the BICEP2 telescope in Antarctica. (BICEP is short for "Background Imaging of Cosmic Extragalactic Polarization.")
The researchers made ultrasensitive maps of the CMB over about 2 percent of the sky, taking advantage of BICEP2's great observing site.
"The South Pole is the closest you can get to space and still be on the ground," Kovac said in a statement. "It's one of the driest and clearest locations on Earth, perfect for observing the faint microwaves from the Big Bang."
http://news.yahoo.com/major-discovery-smoking-gun-universes-incredible-big-bang-145912987.html
Quote from: WarToad on March 18, 2014, 02:25:32 PM
I certainly don't expect religious folks to understand science considering some of the illogical beliefs they hold. For all it's holes, science still makes better sense than a magical fairy in the sky shaking a wand and *poof* things happen... "because".
Incorrect. As I stated, even science cannot answer the ultimate, if there was a 'big bang', why was there a big bang? How did the very first thing come into existence?
Nothing, no answer - that's the best science hs got - so when dealing with something we can't comprehend the brain will do things to make sense of it.
For every religious person on the planet, that 'thing' has been the ever present, ever being only ultimate 'God'.
For non-religious people the answer has been a 'big bang' from nothing.
Both equally illogical in my opinion.
So how's that for MY logic?
ETA: Changed my mind, I think the science so far has been most illogical. At least the religious folkes have filed 'life' away in the 'not-understood but to be revered' cabinet.
A 'big bang' from 'nothing', humans from slime.. The 'random' chances of Pi and Phi... And you name it.. Silly to think really..
The "human Primate", just Loves "fireworks" and "Energy Based Systems" so believes there was a big Poof ! :)
Such is the Primitive nature of the "Species".
We need to get real and Look beyond WHAT we believe to be our Universe and come to know,
Our "REAL SELVES".
The "human Primate" is ONLY the "Experience", as is also, WHAT appears to be our Universe !
When the difference between LIFE and the "Experience" is Discovered, and Realised,
then one has a chance of understanding. :)
Quote from: Sinny on March 19, 2014, 12:42:04 AM
Incorrect. As I stated, even science cannot answer the ultimate, if there was a 'big bang', why was there a big bang? How did the very first thing come into existence?
Nothing, no answer - that's the best science hs got - so when dealing with something we can't comprehend the brain will do things to make sense of it.
For every religious person on the planet, that 'thing' has been the ever present, ever being only ultimate 'God'.
For non-religious people the answer has been a 'big bang' from nothing.
Both equally illogical in my opinion.
So how's that for MY logic?
Incorrect. There was no logic there. Science is an evolution always trying to move forward though trial and error, through reproducible experiments finding facts. It accepts it doesn't yet understand. It accepts it makes mistakes. It's singular goal is truth, facts, weeding out the false, moving forward. Technology advance. It's at least honest with it's holes and errors.
Religion is stagnant. It demands it must be accepted without the scrutiny of fact based logic. Regardless. Stuck. Brainless. Rules are absolute. A LOT of rules. New rules. Newer rules. Accept or burn in "Hell". (Which is classic animal training. Submit, obey, think the way I want you to think, wimper in your cage.)
Religion is the NSA, FBI, CIA, Area 51, the Elite, shadow governmant, underworld/power players, corporate masters, it holds itself higher than us little "peons". Religion makes rules it wants us to play by. Religion is what makes you bow and submit... "because"... you've been trained to.
Do you believe in Amy's TAP? TAP refutes religion, denies it, by the way she's defined it as three laws and no consiquences besides some nebulous defined social currency.
Religion has nothing to offer in explaining this universe we exist in. It is simply hope for the hopeless. A drowning man grabs at anythihg, everything. Because he has nothing else.
ok.. confessing to only have read the last reply
you guys are sooo funny
religion and science are twins..really
i grew up catholic..so i can speak to that
with religion
you pray REPEATEDLY for something to happen or not happen
and you believe that it works
and i did my time in lab research so i can speak to that
in science
you REPEAT AND REPEAT something before you believe it is real
they are both stupid door stops in finding the truth
they ask the wrong questions..
they are both limited to their own ways
see...twins..the one you pick that is on your side is always the biggest twin-
(http://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/55/53/83/images16.jpg)
Religion and science are matter and anti-matter. (Uless you believe God created science)
Science DEMANDS you repeat experments so they always end up the same. That's how you define your hypothosis actually works. Anyone who repears your experiment NEEDS to see the same results. SCIENCE! ;D It demands truth and facts that anyone can prove themselves. Think, question, try to refute, try to break it. Science thrives on that.
Religion demands subserviance. Accept "the word". Wash, rinse, repeat. End of story. Don't think too much, you might get confused.
sorry wartoad i disagree on the science end of things
science repeats so it can write papers.. if there is a difference in the results of a test
they don't look at it as something else to check
they look at it as a failure to prove something
ya can't patent it if you can't repeat it a million times
why does it have to be repeatable?...
what exactly does repeatable prove except repeatable...
religion isn't any better
but they are both demanding subservice in you can't be different,, you can't deviate,
you can't grow naturally...
everything is restrained to fit a mold set by those ruling the program at the time
i luv the saying that those that don't learn from history (any subject's history) are bound to repeat it
isn't that what they are both doing..
edit cause i can't speel..sorry :(
Quote from: WarToad on March 19, 2014, 01:07:04 AM
Do you believe in Amy's TAP? TAP refutes religion, denies it, by the way she's defined it as three laws and no consiquences besides some nebulous defined social currency.
WHERE did You get that idea?!? I neither support NOR refute any religion. I leave religious beliefs up to the Individual. The Individual is free to add any other rules They wish to live by as long as the Laws are not broken. Consequences of breaking the three Laws range from being ostracized (becoming pariah) to being confined, depending on the degree of egregiousness. A defrauder will likely be merely pariah, whereas a murderer is likely to be confined.
The social currency is the MOTIVATOR having NOTHING to do with consequences of breaking the Laws (except that breaking the Laws WILL affect how One is perceived). Social currency is how Others perceive Us.
Back to topic.
Studying your Environment is great.. :) but realise this may only allow you to experience the "End Result"
("Story") a little more.
It tell us nothing at all, regarding HOW this Experience (Universe) is being Produced.
It's a bit like TV or a Computer, where the Images on Screen look totally different than the software,
firmware and hardware used to produce the Images on screen.
So too, it is the same regarding your experience (Universe) and that which produces it for you. :)
Quote from: WarToad on March 19, 2014, 01:07:04 AM
Religion is stagnant.
Wrong. There are 21 'main' religions in the world and another thousand variations of those..Stagnant?
QuoteIt demands
Does it really?
Quoteit must be accepted without the scrutiny of fact based logic
Said who?
QuoteRules are absolute
Except for the exceptions?
QuoteA LOT of rules. New rules. Newer rules
Made by man?
QuoteAccept or burnin "Hell"
'Hell'.. A new age 'Christian' Term, are you sure your talking about all 'religion'; and not just your own distorted view of it?
QuoteWhich is classic animal training
So is repeating without thinking..
QuoteSubmit, obey, think the way I want you to think, wimper in your cage.
Ah the whole Old Testament jealous God scenario.. Well, if we fell from grace, I think 'the proof is in the pudding'.
QuoteReligion is the NSA, FBI, CIA, Area 51, the Elite, shadow governmant, underworld/power players, corporate masters, it holds itself higher than us little "peons"
Is it?
QuoteReligion makes rules it wants us to play by
Erm, religion is a
concept, not a physical slave driver..
QuoteReligion is what makes you bow and submit...
No, you make
yourself bow or submit..
Quote"because"... you've been trained to
Who's 'you'? Sounds like your assuming
a lot..
QuoteDo you believe in Amy's TAP?
Not in it's current form.
QuoteTAP refutes religion, denies it, by the way she's defined it as three laws and no consiquences besides some nebulous defined social currency
And that effects this discussion how?
QuoteReligion has nothing to offer in explaining this universe we exist in.
Well, it seems to for
most the worlds population..
QuoteIt is simply hope for the hopeless
1) Isn't that a good thing?
2) Can you prove this?
QuoteA drowning man grabs at anything, everything. Because he has nothing else.
Sounds to me like you haven't yet realised atheism is practically it's own religion..
Please rebuke on some sort of academic level.
Quote from: WarToad on March 19, 2014, 01:34:05 AM
Religion and science are matter and anti-matter. (Uless you believe God created science)
That's the hypothesis posed..
QuoteScience DEMANDS
For your sentence/statement to have any logic the word 'demand' should be replaced with 'requires'..Science is not a physical being to 'demand'...or are you suggesting science is an intelligent being, therefore leaning towards the hypothesis you are attempting to dispute? :P
Quoteyou repeat experiments so they always end up the same
No, you repeat experiments
to see if they end up the same, or are you suggesting you conduct the experiments to prove a per-determined outcome? In which case there is no need for the experiment ::)
QuoteThat's how you define your hypothesis actually works.
Again, you should replace 'define' with 'prove'.
QuoteAnyone who repeats your experiment NEEDS to see the same results
Purely illogical and defeats the point of repeating the experiment..
QuoteSCIENCE! ;D It demands truth and facts that anyone can prove themselves. Think, question, try to refute, try to break it. Science thrives on that.
I think your confused..
QuoteReligion demands subservience. Accept "the word". Wash, rinse, repeat. End of story. Don't think too much, you might get confused.
Apparently so.