http://www.ussc.gov/Legislative_and_Public_Affairs/Newsroom/Press_Releases/20140410_Press_Release.pdf
Hot news on reducing drug sentences. As a lover of liberty, this made me very happy. In a world of endless threats, some very good thing are happening.
I'm either reading this wrong or we have a different definition of "good". :)
From what I could read about that "Drug Quantity Table" and the corresponding sentence levels, it looks like this applies mostly to those manufacturing and selling drugs and is intended to reduce the federal prison population.
Is that it or am I mixing everything up? ;D
It's a positive move towards pulling the US away from having the highest incarceration rate on earth - and putting such people into treatment instead of prison. Saves tax $ and is more humane.
It is hard to understand a system that often spawns more hardship and damage than the crime it is supposed to suppress.
Quote from: Eighthman on April 13, 2014, 12:50:55 PM
It's a positive move towards pulling the US away from having the highest incarceration rate on earth - and putting such people into treatment instead of prison. Saves tax $ and is more humane.
Treatment for what, selling drugs? ???
Some people see drug use as harmless. The ruined lives don't seem to matter. From the users to the dealers. It is far from harmless. It is a curse to human lives.
May I point out that the "ruined lives" are ruined not from the use of a drug but from the legal and monetary concerns. If drugs were free and One could choose them or not, with TRUTHFUL information about their effects available, very few lives would be "ruined."
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 13, 2014, 08:19:52 PM
May I point out that the "ruined lives" are ruined not from the use of a drug but from the legal and monetary concerns. If drugs were free and One could choose them or not, with TRUTHFUL information about their effects available, very few lives would be "ruined."
That is ridiculous, do you really think that all the people that had their lives directly ruined by drugs didn't know what they were doing?
Most People whose lives were "ruined" were ruined by the legal system (arrested, etc.) or by a system that rejects Their freedom to choose for Themselves (no jobs for any with a "record") or by drugs cut with adulterants to make more money.
Also, telling lies about substances (Reefer madness, etc.) leaves many unsure what the truth is.
Please show three examples of "lives ruined" that did not have any of these elements. You will be hard pressed, I think.
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 13, 2014, 09:19:18 PM
Most People whose lives were "ruined" were ruined by the legal system (arrested, etc.) or by a system that rejects Their freedom to choose for Themselves (no jobs for any with a "record") or by drugs cut with adulterants to make more money.
I don't think that's the kind of "ruined life"
Sgt.Rocknroll was talking about, and sure isn't the kind I was talking about.
QuoteAlso, telling lies about substances (Reefer madness, etc.) leaves many unsure what the truth is.
The information is available, only the ones that do not want to know are left unsure.
QuotePlease show three examples of "lives ruined" that did not have any of these elements. You will be hard pressed, I think.
No, I wouldn't be hard pressed, I know several cases (two of which ended in death of the drug user) of people having their lives ruined by drugs. None were arrested, in Portugal we only ask for criminal record in special cases (like working with children), and I have never seen any case of something like "Reefer madness" (I had to search for it, I didn't know about it), not even close.
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 13, 2014, 09:19:18 PM
Most People whose lives were "ruined" were ruined by the legal system (arrested, etc.) or by a system that rejects Their freedom to choose for Themselves (no jobs for any with a "record") or by drugs cut with adulterants to make more money.
Also, telling lies about substances (Reefer madness, etc.) leaves many unsure what the truth is.
Please show three examples of "lives ruined" that did not have any of these elements. You will be hard pressed, I think.
I have learned from experience here to make my statement of my beliefs and not comment on the follow up, because I usually don't have tact and I can be pretty damn sharp tongued. BUT.....
I know people, personally that have had they're lives RUINED by drugs, and none have been arrested or convicted by the LEGAL system. And bringing up 'Reefer Madness' is a favorite tactic of the naive (showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment). You think that the average Joe Blow is going to sit down and say well lets see..hhhmmm...should I try heroin for the first time or should I stop and look up the info on the harmful effects that may happen to me......????...Really?...I go back to the definition....naive (showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.
Quote from: ArMaP on April 13, 2014, 09:27:04 PM
... I know several cases (two of which ended in death of the drug user) of people having their lives ruined by drugs.
What were the particulars? The details?
Quote... and I have never seen any case of something like "Reefer madness" (I had to search for it, I didn't know about it), not even close.
Perhaps in Portugal You are unaware of the lies told to the English speaking countries about cannabis. We were told it causes criminal insanity by "reputable" sources, by the MSM. In Congress there is record of the claims being made that it causes "brother to kill brother," and that it makes "black men want to rape white women."
With claims like these, and the actual facts being more or less exactly OPPOSITE of what was told as the truth, what data do We believe about anything from Whom? With the profit motive involved in the whole choice question, any story that suits Their needs is suspect...and since They are opportunists seeking to find an angle from which to come with any of Our creative ideas, One can imagine Them constructing most anything (including injections of "hope" now and again - what is "real," ArMaP? [smile]).
I have a thing to write. BBL.
yeah i'm kinda with sarge on this ..i don't have much tact either
We were told it causes criminal insanity by "reputable" sources, by the MSM
and you believed it.. now that's laughable
i don't want to be operated on by a surgeon who is using..i don't want to be a passenger of a
driver who is using...pilot, bus, train, firend..what have you
i don't want to be at a cash register of a user...
etc...etc..etc..
you want to sit on your butt at home and use.. do it..but don't go all poor pitiful you are being pickin on crap ::)
the laws are slow to change..but they are..stuff is legal in many places now..we'll see how that goes..
i'm waiting for the air space above colorado to be quaranteen to planes...on the basis of impairment to pilots...bwhahahahahahahah
didn't read the link..guilty of laziness
as far as the sentence.... imo ..the punishment should fit the 'crime'
you litter..you clean up highways
you use pot..you work in a drug clinic..cleaning up
you kill people ..you dig graves..by hand
sometimes i go literal
thanks Sky I think we think alike sometimes...some people are as I said naive or just have an agenda or just plain stupid....but thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it...this will be my last post on the subject because there will be no end and it will go on, and on, and on.....
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 13, 2014, 09:53:33 PM
What were the particulars? The details?
Details of what? ???
QuotePerhaps in Portugal You are unaware of the lies told to the English speaking countries about cannabis.
I may be unaware of how things happen in the US (I don't know about other English speaking countries, and I don't know if you know either), and this is about all drugs, not just about cannabis and your own personal opinions. In case you haven't noticed, the world is more than just Amaterasu. ::)
QuoteWe were told it causes criminal insanity by "reputable" sources, by the MSM.
And young people (the ones most likely to be affected by drugs) listen carefully to what the MSM says, and they never listen to their friends, right?
QuoteIn Congress there is record of the claims being made that it causes "brother to kill brother," and that it makes "black men want to rape white women."
If there is real data please point to it.
QuoteWith claims like these, and the actual facts being more or less exactly OPPOSITE of what was told as the truth, what data do We believe about anything from Whom?
What actual facts?
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 13, 2014, 08:19:52 PM
May I point out that the "ruined lives" are ruined not from the use of a drug but from the legal and monetary concerns. If drugs were free and One could choose them or not,
Amy,
About your statements:
People are already free to choose drugs,
or reject them. No one is forced to use illegal drugs of any kind;regardless of whether any Government has provided "truthful"
information. Now about the statement that
"if drugs were free"???
If illegal drugs were "free"
more lives would be ruined by them
I simply think that punishment for drug use should not cause more harm than the actual drug use itself - and that has often been the case with cannabis in particular. In the case of Portugal, the results seem mixed but if that's the whole of it, then why invest so much time, money and lives in fighting drugs?
I also get angry when I observe how rights under the Constitution have been eroded by the war on drugs and how careless police/SWAT teams kill innocent people from obsessing with drugs.
When I was young, I had my own lab to experiment with. Today, it would be nearly impossible and in some areas it is almost automatically supposed that anyone with lab glassware, etc. is a lawbreaker. Why is it that I can buy dangerous drugs from the dark 'net but I can't get organic chemicals for improving arterial stiffness?
I'm damned tired of seeing freedom eroded and as an older gentleman believe we need to leave the world to our young together with at least as much opportunity and liberty as we benefited from.
@Eightman,
You have some very valid points there.
:)
Quote from: Eighthman on April 14, 2014, 12:43:09 AM
In the case of Portugal, the results seem mixed but if that's the whole of it, then why invest so much time, money and lives in fighting drugs?
Mixed? Why do you say that? ???
Well, well. Here we have the classic argument about drugs.
I bet the anti-pot protagonists like to have a drink from time to time..
Now THERE is a bloody dangerous drug, that should definitely be prohibited, if ruined lives and health issues are a concern.
At least the authorities are starting to do something about tobacco, now...
FB.
Quote from: sky otter on April 13, 2014, 10:12:59 PM
yeah i'm kinda with sarge on this ..i don't have much tact either
We were told it causes criminal insanity by "reputable" sources, by the MSM
and you believed it.. now that's laughable
I agree! Because it isn't true! LOL! *I* didn't believe it, but the People back in the 50's that never heard of it before - and were told that as Their initial awareness from the Ones that back then everyOne assumed could be trusted - did. Thust public support for the "menace" eradication that allowed ever more intrusion into Our lives.
Quotei don't want to be operated on by a surgeon who is using..i don't want to be a passenger of a
driver who is using...pilot, bus, train, firend..what have you
i don't want to be at a cash register of a user...
etc...etc..etc..
20 to 1 You have been at a number of cash registers of "users" while They were using. What a menace, that You would not be able to tell. (I balanced to the penny as a teller back in the day, "using" and handling $100,000 in cash every day.) Be that as it may, choose Your doctors by that criterium, and Your drivers.
Quoteyou want to sit on your butt at home and use.. do it..but don't go all poor pitiful you are being pickin on crap ::)
When I have had work, the use was never an issue. Please quit spreading the propaganda that using necessarily = "sit[ting] on your butt at home and use." And what are You referring to about being picked on?
Quotethe laws are slow to change..but they are..stuff is legal in many places now..we'll see how that goes..
i'm waiting for the air space above colorado to be quaranteen to planes...on the basis of impairment to pilots...bwhahahahahahahah
LOL!
Quoteyou use pot..you work in a drug clinic..cleaning up
You use aspirin (which has actually killed People - in fair numbers) and...?
You are suggesting that because People were duped back in the day and the use of cannabis was made illegal on lies and disinfo, that because it is labeled a crime, We should "punish?" Heh.
Quote from: burntheships on April 13, 2014, 10:45:07 PM
Amy,
About your statements: People are already free to choose drugs,
or reject them. No one is forced to use illegal drugs of any kind;
regardless of whether any Government has provided "truthful"
information.
Now about the statement that "if drugs were free"???
If illegal drugs were "free" more lives would be ruined by them
Give the mechanisms by which these "lives have been ruined." Like Krockodil? Do You think THAT would be the choice if good, unadulterated heroin was available? (60 Minutes did a thing, YEARS ago, about how there is no OD level of PURE heroin, and that all deaths caused by "heroin" were actually caused by adulterants used to make more money.)
Quote from: Fruitbat on April 14, 2014, 01:34:50 AM
Well, well. Here we have the classic argument about drugs.
I don't think it was, at least originally.
From what I understand of the article linked to on the opening post, the U.S. Sentencing Commission decided to reduce the drug trafficking sentences, but, at least from my point of view, everybody things this applies to the everyday user.
Nobody cleared my doubts about it, as usual. :(
http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/12/05/us-forced-guilty-pleas-drug-cases
Poor black people are commonly forced into pleas by prosecutors. There may also be a presumption of dealing based on quantity. So, some "dealers" may be innocent.
There is a recent case in NY in which a black man spent 25 years in prison because prosecutors hid evidence that he was innocent. It is hard for me to imagine such evil.
As for Portugal, I'm not sure what to believe as to decriminalization but the best info seems to suggest that it hasn't been a disaster so why waste fights about it?
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 14, 2014, 01:58:07 AM
(60 Minutes did a thing, YEARS ago, about how there is no OD level of PURE heroin, and that all deaths caused by "heroin" were actually caused by adulterants used to make more money.)
Amy,
I would not consider 60 minutes a comprehensive source
on unadulturated Heroin. ;D By your own definition,
they are just a disinfo MSM source.
Recreational heroin use is a dangerous
thing, a deadly idea to be sure.
People do all kinds of things in life for thrills,
thrills become addictions. Addictions kill.
No one is forced to use drugs. And those who do, do so at their own
choosing. Like jumping off a cliff,
dont expect people to find logic in
that action, unless it was to suicide.
You are suggesting that because People were duped back in the day and the use of cannabis was made illegal on lies and disinfo, that because it is labeled a crime, We should "punish?" Heh.
I'm not 'suggesting' anything.. I was giving an opinion opposite of your opinion.
and since neither of us is likely to change our minds on this issue there is no reason to read this thread or post in it anymore
apologies to 8thman for going sideways on his post..sadly such is a forum..any bloody idiot who signs up can comment..and usually does.. ;)
Sometimes indeed good things do happen.
for example: My excessively long post appealing for reason to prevail on this issue doesn't seem to have appeared!
FB!
Quote from: ArMaP on April 13, 2014, 10:27:50 PM
Details of what? ???
Really, ArMaP? You can't figure out where I was going there? Really? You said: " I know several cases (two of which ended in death of the drug user) of people having their lives ruined by drugs." I asked for the particulars - the details like what drug They chose, what constituted a ruining of the life... In fact, define what a "ruined life" is.
QuoteI may be unaware of how things happen in the US (I don't know about other English speaking countries, and I don't know if you know either), and this is about all drugs, not just about cannabis and your own personal opinions. In case you haven't noticed, the world is more than just Amaterasu. ::)
Yeah, so? I was just pointing out that the whole "illegal drugs" thing is money/control driven.
QuoteAnd young people (the ones most likely to be affected by drugs) listen carefully to what the MSM says, and they never listen to their friends, right?
Huh? What's that got to do with it - except that the lies left a lot of kids having no clue what They were getting into, seeing the lies of cannabis?
QuoteIf there is real data please point to it.
Weirdly, though I read a dozen pages a few years ago pointing to the Congressional Record with those specific phrases shown, today I cannot find one page that discusses it. But I did find some general history about the fact that race was used as a cover for financial interests to push the stamp act through.
http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/
http://gunnison.hubpages.com/hub/Marijuana-History-and-Racial-Bias
And many more...
QuoteWhat actual facts?
The facts that cannabis causes loving behavior rather than brother killing brother, that rape is actually lett likely because it calms People down.
Quote from: burntheships on April 14, 2014, 02:51:09 AM
Amy,
I would not consider 60 minutes a comprehensive source
on unadulturated Heroin. ;D By your own definition,
they are just a disinfo MSM source.
Recreational heroin use is a dangerous
thing, a deadly idea to be sure.
People do all kinds of things in life for thrills,
thrills become addictions. Addictions kill.
No one is forced to use drugs.
And those who do, do so at their own
choosing. Like jumping off a cliff,
dont expect people to find logic in
that action, unless it was to suicide.
First, it was a 60 Minutes with Mike Wallace - who did try to provide truth for Us as He could - and was buried post haste. When such shows are buried that quickly, it's clear it hit something They don't want Us to know. Mike went around to several labs that were testing pure heroin, trying to find an OD amount. The conclusion was that there was none, though a big enough dose did cause prolonged sleeping.
Recreational use of heroin from the street, yes. But I begin to doubt that it is the drug itself. And besides, statistically speaking, no One uses it.
Addictions do not kill. Stresses, adulterants, money motive, they kill. And besides, who are WE to tell ANYONE They can't do any given thing with Their own body? Laws don't change the choices People make (except very rarely).
You keep saying no One is forced to do drugs. Yeah, but what has that to do with Us forcing People NOT to use certain substances? Yes, People are forced (when caught) to NOT use some drugs. But I suppose it's better to give up the freedom to choose what One does with One's body for the "safety" of having "laws" in place that really do nothing but give the Feds the in to harass the populace.
Thinkin' on ol' Benny Franklin here.
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 14, 2014, 03:57:11 AM
Mike went around to several labs that were testing pure heroin, trying to find an OD amount. The conclusion was that there was none, though a big enough dose did cause prolonged sleeping.
Well when you can proof that up, I will be waiting.
Quote
Recreational use of heroin from the street, yes. But I begin to doubt that it is the drug itself. And besides, statistically speaking, no One uses it.
Addictions do not kill. Stresses, adulterants, money motive, they kill. And besides, who are WE to tell ANYONE They can't do any given thing with Their own body?
I keep saying it, drug use is a choice!
You have said "if drugs were free"...
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 13, 2014, 08:19:52 PMIf drugs were free and One could choose them or not,
Quote
You keep saying no One is forced to do drugs. Yeah, but what has that to do with Us forcing People NOT to use certain substances?
Yes, I do keep saying that, because fact is using drugs is a choice;
that was in answer to your statement above! "if...one could choose
them or not".
No one is forced to use drugs! People
do choose to use them or notNo one is forcing people to "not use certain substances".
If people are so bent on using addictive drugs, who can stop them?
However saying. as you have "if drugs were free" seems you
advocate "free drugs for all".
::)
So now that it is legal in Colorado and Washington....
...have they released the users that were caught before the change?
Well they should as long as there wasn't any violence involved in they're offenses.
Quote from: Eighthman on April 14, 2014, 02:39:26 AM
Poor black people are commonly forced into pleas by prosecutors. There may also be a presumption of dealing based on quantity. So, some "dealers" may be innocent.
I'm sure that happens, but, if I'm not mistaken, we are talking about minimums of something like 80 grams for heroin, 400 grams for cocaine and 80 Kilograms of Marijuana, so I suppose those cases are not as common.
QuoteAs for Portugal, I'm not sure what to believe as to decriminalization but the best info seems to suggest that it hasn't been a disaster so why waste fights about it?
In Portugal it was a success. :)
The levels of AIDS among drug users were reduced (that was the initial reason for thinking about changing the law), the numbers of drug addicts were reduced (one methadone centre in the street where I live was closed for lack of patients and I haven't seen someone with that typical look of drug addict, like those "helping" people parking their cars, in the last 5 years or more) and the crimes related to drug use were also reduced.
I don't understand the "why waste fights about it" part. ???
I can only give my opinion from a law enforcement and corrections point of view. I saw too many lives go bad regarding over indulgence in both legal and illegal drugs. By going bad I mean tearing families apart because the affected person just had to have it (whatever it was) and would do anything to get it even at the expense of the family or friends. I have seen different drugs do things to peoples bodies where they were nice looking people from a physical standpoint and it wreaked havoc on their bodies. I have seen people over indulge in alcohol, weed, prescription drugs, hash, PCP, heroin, K2, bath salts, and the list goes on. I can't see any good in making those things legal but I can't change it. I do however see the benefits of cannabis, hemp oil for prescribed medical purposes. We should let nature give us what we need to take care of our bodies instead of synthetic JUNK that man manufactures. The earth gives us what we need. People who want to abuse it will do so whether we like it or not.
I can only see the bad drugs have caused for the past 22 years and not the good. Seen people killed in car accidents because they were under the influence of some substance that impaired their driving. I seen people who were driving sober being hit and killed by someone under the influence of a substance be it drugs or alcohol. The only good I can see is that which comes from cannabis for medicinal purposes only or drugs used to help people with surgeries and the pain that comes from that. Seen too much of the bad side and how it has affected lives. Thanks for listening you all.
everything youi want except free.... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UslD1mlqtPY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UslD1mlqtPY
Quote from: spacemaverick on April 14, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
I can only give my opinion from a law enforcement and corrections point of view. I saw too many lives go bad regarding over indulgence in both legal and illegal drugs.
Same here from a medical point of view. Broken bodies and minds, friendships and families. Anyone who thinks alcohol/drugs are fun and without consiquence are absolutely delusional or ignorant. I've reviewed medical records for 17 years now and it's always sad to see the downward spiral, all for what?
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 14, 2014, 03:38:32 AM
Really, ArMaP? You can't figure out where I was going there? Really?
I like to be sure about how I spend my time. :)
QuoteI asked for the particulars - the details like what drug They chose, what constituted a ruining of the life... In fact, define what a "ruined life" is.
In those two cases, the definition of "ruined life" is "death", as both died because of it.
In one case it was ecstasy, in the other (I think) heroine.
QuoteYeah, so? I was just pointing out that the whole "illegal drugs" thing is money/control driven.
As expected.
QuoteHuh? What's that got to do with it - except that the lies left a lot of kids having no clue what They were getting into, seeing the lies of cannabis?
So, they didn't know what they were getting into because the MSM said it was bad? I don't understand that logic, maybe I am missing something.
QuoteWeirdly, though I read a dozen pages a few years ago pointing to the Congressional Record with those specific phrases shown, today I cannot find one page that discusses it.
Not that weird... ::)
QuoteBut I did find some general history about the fact that race was used as a cover for financial interests to push the stamp act through.
http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/
http://gunnison.hubpages.com/hub/Marijuana-History-and-Racial-Bias
Not general, as it only applies to one drug.
QuoteThe facts that cannabis causes loving behavior rather than brother killing brother, that rape is actually lett likely because it calms People down.
We are (or at least we weren't, until you appeared on the thread) not talking about cannabis, this is about the application of the legislation related to
all drugs, not just one.
Quote from: ArMaP on April 14, 2014, 08:18:55 PM
So, they didn't know what they were getting into because the MSM said it was bad? I don't understand that logic, maybe I am missing something.
The "authorities" lie about cannabis. The lie is seen. Other drugs are reported on by the MSM. The lies if any are unclear but knowing the lies about cannabis, One is left not knowing what They are getting into regardless of media claims. "If They lied about cannabis, why wouldn't They lie about other drugs?"
QuoteNot that weird... ::)
It IS weird if One accepts that history should not change (in a perfect world which, I know, We are not living in). Yet I cannot find history info now that was available 10 years ago. If You think that is not "that" weird...perhaps You expect the 1984 rewriting of history to suit the power "elite?"
QuoteNot general, as it only applies to one drug.
I was - AS STATED - discussing the info around the stamp act that effectively made cannabis "illegal." And the lies told about it that leave Us unsure of the facts about anything.
QuoteWe are (or at least we weren't, until you appeared on the thread) not talking about cannabis, this is about the application of the legislation related to all drugs, not just one.
I'm not talking just cannabis either. I was answering Your question which dealt specifically with cannabis. To then come back and slap Me on the face because I responded to a question You asked about cannabis is disingenuous.
I thought this thread was all about the legislation reducing drug sentences! Well here's my thoughts on that particular subject. Those that manufacture outside approved and legal manufacturing circles should not have sentences reduced. The meth lab in a house, the mobile meth lab, the marijuana grower, the dealers...all should not have reduced sentences. Dealers and manufacturers that I have come into contact with during my law enforcement career are not out to help people, they are out to make money. I say reduce the sentences for the users and get them some help but the ones that deal and manufacture on the street...hang'em high on their sentences.
One of the issues about helping those who abuse legal drugs, illegal drugs are mental issues of dependency. The next issue (like in my county and state) there are not enough rehabs to help all these users. The next issue is that our representatives do not want to provide the money to fund such programs and last of all the abuser has to want to change their lifestyle to get out of the drugs. They need a family support system that helps instead of indulging in the same lifestyle which I have seen numerous times.
Bottom line for me is to reduce the drug sentences for the users and abusers but to the devil with the illegal manufacturers and dealers. Provide and fund help for those addicted. (My opinion based on experiences)
Quote from: Amaterasu on April 15, 2014, 06:57:49 PM
The "authorities" lie about cannabis. The lie is seen. Other drugs are reported on by the MSM. The lies if any are unclear but knowing the lies about cannabis, One is left not knowing what They are getting into regardless of media claims. "If They lied about cannabis, why wouldn't They lie about other drugs?"
Then I suppose people advocating cannabis use are also responsible for not making things clear to those ignorant people that don't know what to do and decide to use drugs just because the bad results may be a lie.
QuoteIt IS weird if One accepts that history should not change (in a perfect world which, I know, We are not living in). Yet I cannot find history info now that was available 10 years ago. If You think that is not "that" weird...perhaps You expect the 1984 rewriting of history to suit the power "elite?"
History doesn't change, what people say and think do.
QuoteI'm not talking just cannabis either.
Then stop talking about cannabis and be clear about you are talking about.
QuoteI was answering Your question which dealt specifically with cannabis. To then come back and slap Me on the face because I responded to a question You asked about cannabis is disingenuous.
OK, could you point where did I make that question dealing specifically with cannabis before you said any thing about it?
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: spacemaverick on April 15, 2014, 07:48:30 PM
One of the issues about helping those who abuse legal drugs, illegal drugs are mental issues of dependency.
That was the basis used to treat the drug users in Portugal, they were considered as people needing help and they were given the chance of being helped.
QuoteThe next issue (like in my county and state) there are not enough rehabs to help all these users.
In Portugal that was paid by the Social Security. The weight of that extra spending was negligible when compared with the whole Social Security spending.
QuoteThe next issue is that our representatives do not want to provide the money to fund such programs and last of all the abuser has to want to change their lifestyle to get out of the drugs. They need a family support system that helps instead of indulging in the same lifestyle which I have seen numerous times.
That's on funny thing about the situation in Portugal, many people, when they saw their friends getting help and returning to a normal (whatever that may be) life thought that they could do it too, and most did.
Wikipedia has an article about the drug policy of Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal).
PS: if a worker is found to be a drug user then that is considered a health problem that should be treated by the doctor responsible for that company's work health, with the corresponding secret between patient and doctor. In Portugal, any health problem is not considered a legal reason to fire a worker.
I wish things were different in my neck of the woods. When I worked law enforcement I would always try to be encouraging to those I thought I could help and direct them to our meager resources.
I sometimes consider the inspiring words of an old Bob Dylan song: "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now". Indeed. I simply think that as a society we are too obsessed with punishment and that we are only beginning to understand the subtle effects of that punitive attitude all around us.
I do hope that the good things I read about Portugal's drug policies are true. There are dissenters who claim otherwise. My point is - if the outcome is mixed or ambiguous, then it isn't a disaster and the objectors have no argument to strongly oppose change. If the outcome is truly good, then Godspeed.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if life would stop giving us baseball bats to solve problems rather than a needed scalpel? I have no love for illegal drugs or their effects but Freedom Isn't Free - and right now, hype of terrorism and drug abuse are doing far more damage to our liberty than the actual harm therefrom.
I see the showdown in Nevada and weakening enforcement of drug laws as important steps to obstruct an increasingly appalling Federal government. With the power of the voting booth now castrated, what's left but crude measures (the baseball bats instead of precision)?
http://www.infowars.com/fbi-will-have-up-to-one-third-of-americans-on-biometric-database-by-next-year/
An addendum to my points above. Day after day, week after week...... it just doesn't stop. There is no "repentance", no metanoia, no deviation from this obsession with expanding tyranny.
How does it end? How does it stop?
Very well said 8thman...very well said...that statement comes from the heart I perceive. Gold for ya...
Eightman,
Very good insights, well spoken.
It occured to me some time ago that
the prisons, the courts, the guards for both,
the fines, fees, the prisons and the cultures
inside....it all is its own "industry"
At least we can discuss it, on that other site we weren't even allowed to talk about it.
My response to Springer;
"How can we accept that there IS a drug problem when we are not even allowed to discuss it?, how can you solve a problem by not talking about it?"
Springer; "shut up!"
::) ::)
Spacemaverick you make some excellent points. Have to say that I totally agree with you.
I would love for you to be head of the FDA!
I would love to see cannibus used for health reasons. Just to use to get high is not what it should be legalized for.
Apparently it is our animal nature that is coming out in us.
If you want a chuckle watch the following vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E5TjkDvU0
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/04/17/chris-christie-on-punishing-drug-users-if-were-going-to-be-pro-life-lets-be-pro-life-all-the-way/
It's entering the mainstream - thru the Republicans, oddly enough. The ship of state is turning.....