Pegasus Research Consortium

Roswell UFO crash: what really happened 67 years ago?


The mysterious crash-landing in Roswell, New Mexico is seen as the ultimate landmark event in UFO history
LAST UPDATED AT 14:26 ON Mon 7 Jul 2014
It has been 67 years since an unidentified object crashed on a ranch near Roswell, New Mexico, fuelling speculation about alien life forms that still exists today.


(http://cdn.theweek.co.uk/sites/theweek/files/styles/theweek_article_main_image/public/5/88/140707-roswell_0.jpg?itok=vNK2SNOe)

The incident is seen as the ultimate landmark event in UFO history, and provides the basis of an industry that has spawned multiple books and films, sustains two museums at the town of Roswell and an annual UFO festival. So what really happened on that ranch in July 1947?

What was reported at the time?
On 8 July 1947 Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) issued a press release stating that a "flying disk" had crashed on a ranch near Roswell during a powerful storm. Later in the day, as government scientists arrived in the area, the story appeared to change. A press conference was held and it was stated instead that a weather balloon had crashed. Reporters were shown debris said to be taken from the crash area, such as foil, rubber and wood, which appeared to confirm that the object had been a weather balloon. The incident then went largely unreported for 30 years.

What happened in the 1970s?
In 1978, Stanton Friedman, a nuclear-physicist and UFO researcher, interviewed Major Jesse Marcel Sr, who was said to be the first military officer to investigate the wreckage. Marcel suspected that the debris he recovered in 1947 was "not of this world". He believed he had found an alien spacecraft and that his superiors had covered it up. His claims were later published in the National Enquirer and led to the publication of the 1980 book The Roswell Incident, with more witnesses coming out to support his story.

What have other witnesses said?
Several people claimed to see debris scattered over a wide area and at least one person reported seeing a blazing aircraft in the sky shortly before it crashed. One former mortician, Glenn Dennis, claimed in 1989 that a friend who worked as a nurse at the Roswell Army Air Field had accidentally walked into an examination room where doctors were bent over the bodies of three creatures. They apparently resembled humans, but with small bodies, spindly arms and giant bald heads. In 1995, Ray Santilli, a London-based entrepreneur, claimed to release footage of an alien autopsy performed in Roswell in 1947. Experts immediately ridiculed the footage as a hoax and he admitted years later that it was almost entirely fake. Nevertheless, Santilli insisted real footage existed, but due to its poor condition he had been forced to recreate it. Critics have questioned the validity of various witnesses and pointed out that many claims over the years have come from "friends of friends" who supposedly saw something out of the ordinary.

How do US officials explain the 'bodies'?
In the 1990s, the Pentagon revealed that the object in Roswell was not an ordinary weather balloon after all. It said the debris found at Roswell came from a 700ft-string of weather balloons, radar reflectors and acoustic sensors that formed part of a top-secret experiment to eavesdrop on Soviet nuclear weapons tests. The balloons had been launched on 4 June 1947 in an experiment called Project Mogul, it said. A second report, released in 1997, concluded that reports of alien bodies actually related to life-sized anthropomorphic test dummies.



http://www.theweek.co.uk/us/59331/roswell-ufo-crash-what-really-happened-67-years-ago

I have seen so many versions of this story that I don't know what to believe...LOL

Quote from: onetruekeeper on August 02, 2014, 07:03:01 PM
I have seen so many versions of this story that I don't know what to believe...LOL

Having a hard time sorting things out OTK?

Perhaps I can help.

I'm here to vouch for the high likelihood that A51 is able to help.  [smile]

I don't think it was aliens.

Quote from: Sinny on August 06, 2014, 10:54:26 PM
I don't think it was aliens.

So then you discount all the testimony of the military men who had first hand contact with the craft and bodies?

Not a reasonable conclusion without explanation Sin.

Quote from: A51Watcher on August 10, 2014, 11:00:52 PM

So then you discount all the testimony of the military men who had first hand contact with the craft and bodies?

Not a reasonable conclusion without explanation Sin.

Military men are paid and trained follow orders, Watcher..

I think Aliens are the least suspect when you take into account how many human beings were operating so called UFO's at the time..

P.s Are you lending credence to Corso etc?

Quote from: A51Watcher on August 10, 2014, 11:00:52 PM

So then you discount all the testimony of the military men who had first hand contact with the craft and bodies?

Not a reasonable conclusion without explanation Sin.

Do you discount the testimony of President Clinton?  ;D

Quote
I got a letter from 13-year-old Ryan from Belfast. Now, Ryan, if you're out in the crowd tonight, here's the answer to your question. No, as far as I know, an alien spacecraft did not crash in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. (Laughter.) And, Ryan, if the United States Air Force did recover alien bodies, they didn't tell me about it, either, and I want to know"

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xIqnXu8ZcE0C&pg=PA1815&lpg=PA1815&dq=I+got+a+letter+from+13-year-old+Ryan+from+Belfast.+Now,+Ryan,+if+you%E2%80%99re+out+in+the+crowd+tonight,+here%E2%80%99s+the+answer+to+your+question.+No,+as+far+as+I+know,+an+alien+spacecraft+did+not+crash+in+Roswell,+New+Mexico,+in+1947.+(Laughter.)+And,+Ryan,+if+the+United+States+Air+Force+did+recover+alien+bodies,+they+didn%E2%80%99t+tell+me+about+it,+either,+and+I+want+to+know&source=bl&ots=Tfavbqx7Je&sig=_glox12ignHZGDgt6Y8_lCF7y_c&hl=en&sa=X&ei=snXrU4j1Ouzy7Ab6vIG4Dg&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=I%20got%20a%20letter%20from%2013-year-old%20Ryan%20from%20Belfast.%20Now%2C%20Ryan%2C%20if%20you%E2%80%99re%20out%20in%20the%20crowd%20tonight%2C%20here%E2%80%99s%20the%20answer%20to%20your%20question.%20No%2C%20as%20far%20as%20I%20know%2C%20an%20alien%20spacecraft%20did%20not%20crash%20in%20Roswell%2C%20New%20Mexico%2C%20in%201947.%20(Laughter.)%20And%2C%20Ryan%2C%20if%20the%20United%20States%20Air%20Force%20did%20recover%20alien%20bodies%2C%20they%20didn%E2%80%99t%20tell%20me%20about%20it%2C%20either%2C%20and%20I%20want%20to%20know&f=false

Quote from: Sinny on August 13, 2014, 03:27:49 PM
Do you discount the testimony of President Clinton?  ;D

He wasn't there.

And he doesn't have clearance for that information, or a need to know.



And no I wasn't referring to Corso.


I was instead referring to... lets see for starters -

Pappy Henderson

Walter Haut

Col. Blanchard


And several others.

Quote from: A51Watcher on August 13, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Pappy Henderson

A Pilot who told his wife and daughter, and a dentist (  ::) ) that since the Roswell Alien story was printed in the papers in 1981 he felt he could finally tell his story. aha. Wasn't the alien story reported in the newspaper in 1947 BEFORE the balloon story? Therefore if it was the 'media's' authority he was waiting on he had it from the start. He claims to have kept some of the saucer debris, and yet no body can produce it.

Quote

Mary Sappho Henderson:

In 1980 or 1981, he picked up a newspaper at a grocery store where we were living in San Diego. One article described the crash of a UFO outside Roswell, with the bodies of aliens discovered beside the craft. He pointed out the article to me and said, "I want you to read this article, because it's a true story. I'm the pilot who flew the wreckage of the UFO to Dayton, Ohio [home of Wright Field]. I guess now that they're putting it in the paper, I can tell you about this. I wanted to tell you for years."

Quote
Mary Kathryn Goode

In 1981, during a visit to my parents' home, my father showed me a newspaper article which described the crash of a UFO and the recovery of alien bodies outside Roswell, New Mexico. He told me that he saw the crashed craft and the alien bodies described in the article, and that he had flown the wreckage to Ohio. He described the alien beings as small and pale, with slanted eyes and large heads. He said they were humanoid- looking, but different from us. I think he said there were three bodies. 

He said the matter had been Top Secret and that he was not supposed to discuss it with anyone, but that he felt it was alright to tell me because it was in the newspaper.

Quote
Stanton Friedman
Crash At Corona, 125-128

http://www.nicap.org/pappy.htm

Okay, so his story basically matches Corso's and had been pushed by Freidman.

No points for credibilty by my books.

QuoteWalter Haut

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Haut

Same story as Corso.

QuoteCol. Blanchard

Was responsible with Walter Haut for 'leaking' the saucer story to the media, before it was 'retracted', not before the 'damage' was done tho.
Went on to have a successful career as Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force - regardless of the fact he can't be trusted with 'National Security Secrets'   ::) .

The orange is something I'd like to hear explanantion for..

Quote from: Sinny on August 14, 2014, 05:40:38 PM
A Pilot who told his wife and daughter, and a dentist (  ::) ) that since the Roswell Alien story was printed in the papers in 1981 he felt he could finally tell his story. aha. Wasn't the alien story reported in the newspaper in 1947 BEFORE the balloon story?

No. The Roswell -Alien- story was not printed in the newspapers in 1947.

Flying Saucers were reported in the papers, not aliens.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.0 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.0)

QuoteTherefore if it was the 'media's' authority he was waiting on he had it from the start.

Not the case - see above.

Quote
Okay, so his story basically matches Corso's and had been pushed by Freidman.

No points for credibilty by my books.

Ah since you don't like Friedman, then you reject testimony printed by Friedman.


Then how about hearing from his wife? -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJJw7e1Jbi8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJJw7e1Jbi8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJJw7e1Jbi8)

Quote
Same story as Corso.

If you look a little closer, (I know, wiki summarys are tissue thin) you can see it is not the same story as Corso, also it was released long before Corso -

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5692.0 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5692.0)

Quote
Was responsible with Walter Haut for 'leaking' the saucer story to the media,

Was not a leak, was an official press release ordered by his Commander -

"The story I put out was very simple, to the effect that we had, in our possession a flying saucer. It was found on a ranch up north of Roswell. It was being flown to General Ramey's office.

The information was given to me, almost verbatim, by Colonel Blanchard.

He said, "I want you to give it to the local newspapers and radio stations, and do it post haste" ... The cover-up was pretty well orchestrated. I think the thought of handling it that way came down from Washington, through channels." - Walter Haut


http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=813.msg7056#msg7056 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=813.msg7056#msg7056)


"The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb Group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Airfield was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County.

The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office.

Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters."

Quote
...before it was 'retracted', not before the 'damage' was done tho.

There was no damage done because it was premeditated misdirection.

The retraction was also planned and timed.


Here Walter Haut explains, in his sealed affidavit to only be released upon his death, the reasoning for such misdirection... handed down directly from the Pentagon -

"In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.

I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.

By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.

On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m.

Besides Blanchard,
Marcel;
CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt;
Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer;
Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer;
and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey
and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance.

The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell.

A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town.

Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.

One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery.

Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.

At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.

By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."

Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside.

Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.

Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.

I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.

I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).

Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.

I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.

I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.

I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space."


Signed,

Lt. Walter Haut, Ret.


[Source: Tom Carey & Donald Schmitt, Witness to Roswell, 2007]



As to Col. Blanchard -


"Lytle told Hastings that in February 1953, with Blanchard now a general officer, they were in Alaska while Lytle's wife was in Chicago about to give birth. Lytle was desperate to get home and Blanchard said that they could take an Air Force aircraft to Illinois, land at one of the bases close to Chicago and Lytle could get home from there.

While on the flight, somehow the subject of UFOs came up, maybe because of a couple of sightings at Elmendorf Air Force Base near Anchorage sometime earlier. Blanchard then told Lytle that an alien craft had crashed near Roswell. According to Hastings, Blanchard told Lytle that four bodies had been recovered.

Surprised by this, Hastings asked Lytle, "Blanchard actually told you that the Roswell object was an alien spacecraft."

Lytle said, "Oh, absolutely."


http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.msg2694#msg2694 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.msg2694#msg2694)



LeMay was very well-acquainted with Roswell Army Air Field Base Commander Butch Blanchard. Blanchard oversaw the base at the time of the Roswell crash event in 1947.

It is believed that Blanchard helped issue the original press release on the crash - which prompted the famous resulting headline "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region."

Blanchard told Art McQuiddy, editor of the Roswell Morning Dispatch in 1947, "I'll tell you this and nothing more - the stuff I saw I'd never seen anyplace else in my life."

In LeMay's 1965 biography "Mission with LeMay" he admits. "There is not a question about it: these were things which we could not tie in with any natural phenomena known to our investigators."


http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=754.msg6583#msg6583 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=754.msg6583#msg6583)



Let's add some Werner von Braun to the mix -

QuoteDuring the periodic MFA (Manned Flight Awareness) meetings that were held at Cocoa Beach, I was able to talk freely and briefly with such scientists, particularly Dr. von Braun.

"On one such occasion, he and I had taken a break and stepped out of the Cocoa Beach Ramada Inn into the back patio. I admitted that I was aware that he and his German Scientific team were located not too far from the crash site at that time. They were launching captured V-2 rockets from the White Sands Testing Range.

On this night, I asked him a question concerning the Roswell Incident that caused his eyebrows to raise.

Did the Roswell Incident in fact happen, was an alien craft recovered along with alien bodies? Did you have a chance to go to the crash site?"

Von Braun lit a cigarette, thought for a second, and then began to discuss the crash openly.

He trusted me to hear such astonishing events because I vowed to not report it to newspapers, magazines, television, etc. I never broke that vow. Since he is deceased, and the incident happened over fifty years ago, I am now disclosing what I heard...

Dr. von Braun explained how he and his associates had been taken to the crash site after most of the military were pulled back. They did a quick analysis of what they found.

He told me the craft did not appear to be made of metal as we know metal on earth. He said it seemed to be created from something biological, like skin. I was lost as to what he indicated, other than thinking perhaps the craft was "alive."

The recovered bodies were temporarily being kept in a nearby medical tent. They were small, very frail and had large heads. Their eyes were large. Their skin was grayish and reptilian in texture. He said it looked similar to the skin texture of rattle snakes he'd seen several times at White Sands.

His inspection of the debris had even him puzzled: very thin, aluminum colored, like silvery chewing gum wrappers. Very light and extremely strong.

The interior of the craft was nearly bare of equipment, as if the creatures and craft were part of a single unit.

That's when I became lost in the moment. We returned to the awards ceremony, in which he participated, later bidding farewell. I went home with my head spinning from all I had heard."

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9ea6bae28beb.jpg)


http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.msg2656#msg2656 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.msg2656#msg2656)

Oh forgot to mention the reason for the press release in the first place, and later retraction.

It was to throw spies off the trail of the craft and bodies crash site, and redirect them to the already known and rumored debris field.


The retraction was issued after the craft and bodies were secured.

Unsolved Mysteries, The Roswell Incident.

I just watched Unsolved Mysteries who shown their version of the Roswell Incident...

It seems quite a good shortened version of the much variations that get discussed on it...

If what is said is truth..I did release or recall that it was 3 days after the discovery by the land owner before it was reported....

The Barney Burnett claim of his Saucer discovery is also covered...

I want to also post this in its own thread for ease of finding it...if it is not already posted by other members or A51 Watcher..

I have not watched all this video as the Part that I watched on TV is covered in the first 20 minutes...
I can see there is some other material covered also that also shows Bob Lazar....Not sure if thats part of the same story that did not get shown on the TV program...or may be shown in a future show..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5cu5xaQPcc

Hi Astro,

Unfortunately I'm away from PC quite a lot, so there I only so much I can offer at the moment. The Roswell 'diclosure' does not sit well with me for reasons all ready mentioned.. And I'm not sure the 'diversion' tactic of the location eases those feelings for me.

Von Brauns comments do interest me in regards to biological matter.

As a side note, from following one of A51's links the other day, after being told by A51 I was 'cherry picking' facts... I noticed that him and Pimander did in fact state that when they say ET, they actually mean anything non-human.

Which confuses this arguement further.

My main alternative interest is UFO & 'ET', so no doubt I'll be back with some more input.

Hi Sinny,

I respect your view..

I have not studied Roswell in real detail, but I am aware of many things about it...and I can see arguements on either side. and there seems so many claim to have witnessed so many different things...Then we get the arguements that suggest alternatives or other theories as to what it may have been like the balloon and dummy theory...along with all the suggestions that the USA may have obtained Alien technology to scare of Russia or use it as a cover story..

ALL could be very possible..

BUT when A51 Watcher showed that there were many other UFO sightings around that time elsewhere around the USA or World... then that as far as I am aware little known to the mass public...

Those involved seem quite credible witnesses...and all seemed to say it was NOT human technology and that the beings were Alien Like.

I personally think that the acceleration in technology since Roswell in particular seems to hard to believe that its down to human thought and abilities alone..so I certainly could accpet Alien intervention in aiding our fast progress.. even though only 150 years ago electricity had not even become the norm....but there were admittedly  some remakable technology in past history that was purely mechanical.... that could even be questionable was it with Aid off other technolgy...IMO

This is one for thought... Charles Hall said when he worked at Area 51.... the  young tall whites used to play with weather balloons in their craft like a ping pong game... bouncing it from one craft to another !....

Could the Roswell Balloon theory have had anything to do with this or was C. Hall planting a seed to maybe make a new theory... true or false,  for people to later consider if it becomes more well known...Thats was my own later thoughts about it...He know also talks about his connections with dealing with the greys...

Quote
In the U.S. Army's cache of declassified documents released via FOIA in 1994, you will find a 339 page collection of documents available on the U.S. Army website.

The bulk of those documents consisted of the U.S. Army's investigation into the origins of "flying saucer" research in Germany, originating with the research of the "Horten Brothers" – Walter and Reimar Horton who developed advanced "flying wings" for Germany during the 1940s. The interesting fact about those investigations was that the timeline has a direct link to that of the Roswell crash in July of 1947.

On July 8, 1947, the public information office of the Roswell Air Field made the now-famous announcement that they'd recovered a "flying disc". This announcement was, just as famously, recanted. Everything that followed is shrouded in mystery, allegations of cover-up, and fabrications, lies and baseless conclusions on the part of both skeptics and believers.

However, the Army CIC documents provide some interesting clues as to what was really going on inside the military immediately following the event. The reality is that the UFO sightings throughout 1947 and 1948 triggered a massive investigation into the work of German scientists during WWII on secret flying saucers.

After a couple of letters in July from German scientists claiming that they had a part to play in the "invention" of the flying saucer as a weapon, one of the first very intriguing letters arrived on August 5th of 1947 at Frankfurt. The letter was signed by a "Guida Bernardy" (some references state Guido Bernardy).

Documents like these are not cited often by many Ufologists, because they don't support the party line that aliens crash-landed in Roswell. Bernardy's letter tells another tale, but no less eerie or strange. He opened the letter as follows:
?

"During the war, as I was attached to the 2nd A.d.N., I heard of a Professor Maurer who conducted atom experiments for the OKM at the Krim Peninsula."

He went on to explain that the tests were to find a way to use atomic power as a propellant, first to achieve greater distance with missiles, but also later to create a "combat-ready weapon" – discs that were equipped to deliver a nuclear payload to "New York, California, Texas, Wisconsin, and nine more states at a determined point in time".

According to Bernardy:
?

"The secret work file ran under the name of 'SCHITORIT'. This was developed by IG Farben [a German company] and manufactured. Six of these bombs were found by the USA in Germany. They were built by Krupp and partly by Blohm and Voss [German Companies]."

Bernardy came across with some crazy claims, but he proved the weight of his words by telling the Army something that was supposed to be a closely guarded secret by the U.S. government at the time – the development of the nuclear bomb.
?

"The bomb, called by the USA, the 'great A-Bomb', is now being manufactured in two plants located in Ohio and New York State. It is the size of an apple and used as a throwbomb. It's effective range is 600 km."

How close to reality was this? Well, in 1947, the U.S. Government established the Mound Plant in Ohio for the development of the explosive components inside of nuclear weapons.

In fact, he described exactly how much plutonium was used inside of nuclear weapons – approximately an amount the size of an apple.

It isn't entirely clear whether the sudden interest in UFOs by the Army was sparked by the volume of letters from German scientists mentioning the development of Flying Disc technology in Germany during the war, or some other reason. What is clear is that interest was sparked.

In fact, one memo dated October 28th, 1947 from the 970th Counter Intelligence Corps Detachment, European Command, represents one of the very few official U.S. Army documents that confirms not only the overwhelming presence of sightings of flying discs in the U.S., but also the fact that such flying saucers were known to have existed in Germany.

The memo reads:
?

"The Air Materiel Command is of the opinion that some sort of object, such as the flying saucer, did exist. At present time, construction models are being built for wind tunnel tests."

This, by the way, is a clear admission that flying saucers were housed at Wright Field, Ohio — meaning that the claims out there by some former USAF veterans that they had seen such a craft housed at Wright Patterson could very well be true. What isn't true, is that they were extra-terrestrial. They were made by humans — proved by this document.

An AIR INTELLIGENCE report makes it clear that the Army was aware of the sightings throughout the U.S. of these craft — but the lack of information and the presence of the investigation itself implies that the Army never had possession of any such craft. Instead, the investigation shows that the Army was actively seeking to discover where the sighted discs originated from.
?

An alleged "Flying saucer" type aircraft or object in flight approximately the shape of a disc has been reported by many observers from widely [indecipherable] places, such as the United States, Alaska, Canada, Hungary, the Island of Guam, Japan, etc. This object has been reported by many competent observers. Sightings have been made from the ground as well as from the air."

The document then detailed common characteristics from sightings of the unknown craft. Namely, flat bottomed and highly light-reflective, absence of sound, ability to quickly maneuver and hover, the ability to completely disappear or disintegrate or appear without warning from high-altitude.


The document described the first U.S. sightings of the discs as occurring in the middle of June, and most notably, the document describes the time period known as the Roswell Crash.
?

The greatest activity in the U.S. was during the last week of June and the first week of July.

What appeared to unnerve investigators was the fact that the known German technology – developed originally by the Horton Brothers, had fallen into the hands of the Russians, while the Americans had obtained the bulk of the V-2 missile technology and scientists.
?

A Horten design known as the IX, which was designated as the Go-8-222 and Go-F-60 (night fighter) was to be manufactured by the Gotha Plant. [...] This plant is now in the hands of the Russians."

The search for anyone associated with the Horten Brothers eventually turned up some interesting information.

One SECRET document from Colonel Wentworth, Chief of the Operations Branch, states with no uncertainty that flying saucers were real. In this document, the Colonel admitted that Wright Field, Ohio was actively trying to generate models of the sighted crafts – an apparent effort to reverse-engineer the craft.
?

As a guide in constructing the [WRIGHT FIELD] models, descriptions from various persons who claimed to have sighted these objects were used. The Air Materiel Command is of the opinion that some soft of object, such as the flying saucer, did exist."

It has been misreported elsewhere that the Army was trying to locate the Horten brothers. The truth was that the Army was trying to locate any and all information about flying saucer designs, regardless who invented them. The Horten Brothers designs were the strongest lead at the time, but investigators were clearly interested in identifying the source of the flying saucers being sighted all around the United States during 1947.

In November of 1947, all field offices in Germany advised agents to "canvass your area for possible identity of aircraft specialists or test pilots known in your area with such knowledge. This canvass is to be made discreetly and to conceal our interest in the subject."

The result of that massive canvassing by field agents turned up a mix of results – from some sources saying that such craft and experiments never expanded beyond the glider stage, while other sources insisted the Germans had evolved the design to use jets. Agents even obtained rough sketches of those craft.

.....

ROSWELL


In the 1995 Air Force report titled "The Roswell Report – Fact versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert", it is stated that there was in fact a "UFO Wave of 1947?, but that at the time, the Roswell event was not even considered one of those events until 1980.
?

What was later characterized as "the UFO Wave of 1947? began with 16 alleged sightings that occurred between May 17 and July 12, 1947. [...] Interestingly, the "Roswell Incident" was not considered one of these 1947 events until the 1978-1980 time frame. There is no dispute however, that something happened near Roswell in July, 1947, since it was reported in a number of contemporary newspaper articles."

Major Jesse Marcel, who claimed to have recovered a "flying disc" from range land in July of 1947, was stationed at Roswell Army Air Field. One would expect that if the recovered object was in fact an alien spacecraft, subsequent declassified Army documents released years later that mentioned the 1947 Flying Discs would finally reveal what the Army knew about the discs at the time.

Yet, none of these do. Instead, the documents all reveal investigators throughout the U.S. Army scrambling throughout Germany to try and uncover where those flying discs appearing in the sky were actually coming from.

A good example is the memo from October of 1948, three months after the Roswell incident, where the author writes about "...An alleged 'Flying saucer' type aircraft or object" being sighted throughout the country. The author clearly still did not know the origin of the discs, what they were, or where they came from. If the Roswell crash was that of a flying disc, these documents wouldn't refer to them as such a mystery.

In fact, the claim that the military is trying to "cover up" the existence of flying saucers is silly. I repeat, from the November 1947 memo from the Headquarters of the 970th Counter Intelligence Corps to the Army Commanding Officer of the CIC Region, which clearly stated:
?

"However, higher headquarters have notified this headquarters that the Air Material Command is of the opinion that some sort of object, such as the flying saucer, did exist."

The mystery that remains, after reviewing the 300+ pages in this FOIA release, is not actually whether the U.S. Army knew what these flying saucer sightings were in 1947 (they clearly didn't), but whether they ever discovered whether some foreign government, like the Soviet Union, was actively sending supersonic aircraft into American airspace throughout 1947.

http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2014/09/us-army-hunted-ufos-wwii/

Author is not the best at writing apparently lol
But his take on it is...
If they discovered Aliens in 1947, then future Army docs would elude to the fact that they had already discovered their origin...
Rather than their origin remaining a mystery.

Quote from: Sinny on September 10, 2014, 06:35:08 PM
http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2014/09/us-army-hunted-ufos-wwii/

But his take on it is...
If they discovered Aliens in 1947, then future Army docs would elude to the fact that they had already discovered their origin...
Rather than their origin remaining a mystery.

A51 -

Have you read the works of Joseph P Farrell?

Roswell and the Reich?

I'm currently trying to obtain the book - however from what I know so far, even Phillip Corso hinted in his book that their may be a Nazi indication to the Roswell incident, and one point he states, (Day after Roswell):

"The technology had to be extraterrestrial, the only people on earth to look at this technology thus far were the Nazi's"

Paraphrased obviously.

I will return with info and citations - but I'm really limited with time these last few weeks.

I'll also be exploring Nazi Influences of the Staff involoved with Roswell, and possibly Battelle as well.

You'll have to make sense of the non-sense, sorry for the typo's, I had all of 20 seconds to post the last post.

Found this interesting video yesterday. I have no idea who is doing the presentation but you might find it as interesting as I did Sinny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0z1qEnJwHg

Quote from: Sinny on September 10, 2014, 06:35:08 PM
http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2014/09/us-army-hunted-ufos-wwii/

Author is not the best at writing apparently lol
But his take on it is...
If they discovered Aliens in 1947, then future Army docs would elude to the fact that they had already discovered their origin...
Rather than their origin remaining a mystery.

The Schulgen memo is but one of several unearthed that merely confirm that many commanders who were not in the loop were left spinning their wheels trying to determine the origin of the flying discs.

Quote from: Sinny on September 15, 2014, 03:57:55 PM

And for the sake of remaining unbiased - here is a report that may support A51's Hypothesis:

Battelle - Roswell Connection
http://ufodigest.com/news/0809/crash-debris.php

The Battelle connection has had recent corroboration.

I posted a link and the story not long ago here on Peggy.

I'm sure Peggy's search can turn it up.

Quote from: Sinny on September 29, 2014, 04:17:56 PM
A51 -

Have you read the works of Joseph P Farrell?

Roswell and the Reich?

I'm currently trying to obtain the book - however from what I know so far, even Phillip Corso hinted in his book that their may be a Nazi indication to the Roswell incident, and one point he states, (Day after Roswell):

"The technology had to be extraterrestrial, the only people on earth to look at this technology thus far were the Nazi's"

Paraphrased obviously.

I will return with info and citations - but I'm really limited with time these last few weeks.

I'll also be exploring Nazi Influences of the Staff involoved with Roswell, and possibly Battelle as well.

If you google the authors name and book title you will find a lengthy interview with him on YT explaining his theory.

See how many gaps of logic you can spot.

Quote from: Ellirium113 on September 29, 2014, 11:13:53 PM
Found this interesting video yesterday. I have no idea who is doing the presentation but you might find it as interesting as I did Sinny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0z1qEnJwHg

The fellow doing the presentation is Randolph Winters, whose claim to fame is lecturing on the Billy Meier case.

Note that he also supports Adamski in this video.

He sells a videotape of one of his lectures called 'The Pleiadian Connetion' which includes photos of the Dean Martin girls as well as the infamous dinosaur picture, which he contends as real.

::)

Quote from: A51Watcher on September 30, 2014, 04:02:09 AM

If you google the authors name and book title you will find a lengthy interview with him on YT explaining his theory.

See how many gaps of logic you can spot.

I've watched a few of his video's so far... He seemed to be to be very methodical and logical in his research.
Can you be more specific? And do you have any comments on the Nazi Hypothesis in general?

Quote from: Sinny on September 30, 2014, 10:52:23 AM
Can you be more specific? And do you have any comments on the Nazi Hypothesis in general?

When I looked into this it looked likely to be Neo-Nazi propaganda.  I don't have time right now to dig out the material but there was nothing verifiable in the "Flying Saucers were NAZI" theory.  I personally doubt that the crash(es) had anything to do with any Nazi bases.

Something worth thinking about is that the Army are not always in the loop regarding projects being run by others which confuses the hell out of them.  What if the Navy or something already had reverse engineered craft?  What if the new radars and electronic counter measures the USAF inherited from the RAF opened a portal or attracted "other-worldly interest"  in some way?  So many possibilities.  ;)

The memory metal evidence is some of the most convincing available that something very unusual happened there.

Quote from: Pimander on September 30, 2014, 11:22:06 AM
When I looked into this it looked likely to be Neo-Nazi propaganda.  I don't have time right now to dig out the material but there was nothing verifiable in the "Flying Saucers were NAZI" theory.  I personally doubt that the crash(es) had anything to do with any Nazi bases.

Something worth thinking about is that the Army are not always in the loop regarding projects being run by others which confuses the hell out of them.  What if the Navy or something already had reverse engineered craft?  What if the new radars and electronic counter measures the USAF inherited from the RAF opened a portal or attracted "other-worldly interest"  in some way?  So many possibilities.  ;)

The memory metal evidence is some of the most convincing available that something very unusual happened there.

I'm left wondering if either of you two have looked up the source at all.

Joseph P Farrell himself refuses to explore Nazi Saucers - only the Nazi Bell, and he him-self states all the 'saucer stuff' comes from Neo-Nazi's....

He does however think Roswell was a very terrestrial event.

The Metal is not evidence of ET, It is evidence of a curious metal - that is all.   

PJC - The day After Roswell PG 5:

QuoteIn 1961, regardless of the differences in the Roswell story from the many different sources who had
described it, the top-secret file of Roswell information came into my possession when I took over the
Foreign Technology desk at R&D. My boss, General Trudeau, asked me to use the army's ongoing
weapons development and research program as a way to filter the Roswell technology into the main stream
of industrial development through the military defense contracting program.

Today, items such as lasers, integrated circuitry, fiberoptics networks, accelerated particle beam
devices, and even the Kevlar material in bulletproof vests are all commonplace. Yet the seeds for the
development of all of them were found in the crash of the alien craft at Roswell and turned up in my files
fourteen years later.

But that's not even the whole story.

In those confusing hours after the discovery of the crashed Roswell alien craft, the army determined that in
the absence of any other information it had to be an extraterrestrial. Worse, the fact that this craft and other
flying saucers had been surveilling our defensive installations and even seemed to evidence a technology
we'd seen evidenced by the Nazis.

History of the Metal, and it's handlers
http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/roswell-battelle-memory-metal-the-new-revelations-by-anthony-bragalia/

Quote from: Sinny on September 30, 2014, 10:52:23 AM
I've watched a few of his video's so far... He seemed to be to be very methodical and logical in his research.
Can you be more specific? And do you have any comments on the Nazi Hypothesis in general?

Ok, let's start with his contention that foo fighters were a nazi weapon.

Sent up to spray gas that would destroy ignition systems?

Not very bloody effective now were they? How many were reported spraying gas?

And once your car is started, what need have they of the ignition system?

And what propulsion method would they have used? Ducted fans as proposed by Nazi saucer proponents?

The Red Baron riding a window fan through the sky, that's a formidable opponent.

Even remotely controlled, what power source would be aboard to run these fans? Such batteries have yet to be invented to this day.

And any fan arrangement is not going to give you 15,000 mph and 90 degree turns.


A much more effective use of any Nazi foo fighters would have been to ram them head on into any enemy craft, and hopefully carry an explosive charge.

A tally of foo sighting vs any damage ever caused shows them to be virtually ineffective as a weapon.


No trace of any such technology has ever surfaced or been displayed by any country on earth ever since.


However a monstrously huge saucer was reported during daylight by a British bomber crew.


The problem this author faces is much the same that many authors unknowingly face - being unaware that Roswell was not a single incident, but merely the eye of the hurricane, they don't realize their proposed solution takes a stab at explaining one incident, not an entire year of thousands of saucer sightings across the entire nation, and world for that matter.

Quote from: Sinny on September 30, 2014, 12:00:22 PM
I'm left wondering if either of you two have looked up the source at all.

Joseph P Farrell himself refuses to explore Nazi Saucers - only the Nazi Bell, and he him-self states all the 'saucer stuff' comes from Neo-Nazi's....

I was not commenting on Farrell then.  I didn't look at all the posts in detail I was answering the following question.

Quote from: Sinny on September 30, 2014, 10:52:23 AM
Can you be more specific? And do you have any comments on the Nazi Hypothesis in general?

Apologies for the misunderstanding.  I was commenting on, "the Nazi hypothesis in general."

I agree that the metel does not prove anything other than there was some very interesting material at the site.  It is strong evidence linking the incident to Battelle though.  It does not prove that the claims of the Battelle scientist were true but adds weight to the claims in my opinion (or makes them more interesting if you like).

Quote from: A51Watcher on September 30, 2014, 01:08:38 PM
Ok, let's start with his contention that foo fighters were a nazi weapon.

Sent up to spray gas that would destroy ignition systems?

Not very bloody effective now were they? How many were reported spraying gas?

And once your car is started, what need have they of the ignition system?

And what propulsion method would they have used? Ducted fans as proposed by Nazi saucer proponents?

The Red Baron riding a window fan through the sky, that's a formidable opponent.

Even remotely controlled, what power source would be aboard to run these fans? Such batteries have yet to be invented to this day.

And any fan arrangement is not going to give you 15,000 mph and 90 degree turns.


A much more effective use of any Nazi foo fighters would have been to ram them head on into any enemy craft, and hopefully carry an explosive charge.

A tally of foo sighting vs any damage ever caused shows them to be virtually ineffective as a weapon.


No trace of any such technology has ever surfaced or been displayed by any country on earth ever since.


However a monstrously huge saucer was reported during daylight by a British bomber crew.


The problem this author faces is much the same that many authors unknowingly face - being unaware that Roswell was not a single incident, but merely the eye of the hurricane, they don't realize their proposed solution takes a stab at explaining one incident, not an entire year of thousands of saucer sightings across the entire nation, and world for that matter.

Can you quote or reference Farrells conclusion on the Foo Fighters, I am yet to read that material.
I know he thinks they are Nazi, but I'm missing the details.

In his book: Reich of the Black Sun: Nazi Secret Weapons & the Cold War Allied Legend, Farrell himself states that the Foo Fighters were quite harmless:

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/farrell_zps38ac2900.png) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/farrell_zps38ac2900.png.html)

Besides that, I thought we were discussing Roswell?
I completely disagree with your contention:

QuoteThe problem this author faces is much the same that many authors unknowingly face - being unaware that Roswell was not a single incident, but merely the eye of the hurricane, they don't realize their proposed solution takes a stab at explaining one incident, not an entire year of thousands of saucer sightings across the entire nation, and world for that matter.

Each case should be judged on it's individual merit prior to any generalisations and pattern correlations.
Unless it is proven the nature of Roswell is very much the same nature as all other individual cases your point is void.
And the nature of the Roswell incident is exactly what we are trying to explore here. 

Quote from: Pimander on September 30, 2014, 01:24:34 PM

I agree that the metel does not prove anything other than there was some very interesting material at the site.  It is strong evidence linking the incident to Battelle though.  It does not prove that the claims of the Battelle scientist were true but adds weight to the claims in my opinion (or makes them more interesting if you like).

An this info - Interesting metal was first note in 1932, and finally offered to the US channels in 1960 or so.
http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/roswell-battelle-memory-metal-the-new-revelations-by-anthony-bragalia/

Just a quick not.  A lot of the Foo Fighters reports I have read did not describe mechanical devices.

Quote from: Sinny on September 30, 2014, 02:08:09 PM
An this info - Interesting metal was first note in 1932, and finally offered to the US channels in 1960 or so.
http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/roswell-battelle-memory-metal-the-new-revelations-by-anthony-bragalia/

QuoteMemory shape alloys were first discovered in 1932. The Nazis were using nickel titanium alloys only those materials were in short supply... The shape memory effect was first discovered in 1932 in a silver-cadmium alloy. It allows materials possessing shape memory properties to return to their original shape after having suffered some form of deformation after they are heated to temperatures above their transformation temperature.  ...While the first shape memory alloy was discovered in 1932, it wasn't until the early 1960's that the nickel-titanium SMA's were first discovered by Buehler. He was working at the Naval Ordinance Laboratory at the time, hence the name Nitinol. His discovery formed the basis of the first commercial shape memory alloy.

http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/roswell-battelle-memory-metal-the-new-revelations-by-anthony-bragalia/

And also interesting that it was again the Navy and NOT the Army who didn't seem to have a clue what was happening apparently.

So was Phil Corso right?  I think we still can't be sure.  It is possible that the alloys were developed after analysis of Roswell debris by Battelle or others giving clues as to what metals would make the alloys useful.  I do think Corso has links to some shadowy figures in the intelligence community but that does not prove anything.

One thing I will say is that I have never seen any convincing evidence that there was still a Nazi base operating in 1947.


Sorry if my post seems rushed (it is) and a mish mash of loosely related statements but I'm doing several things at once. :D

Quote from: Pimander on September 30, 2014, 02:31:55 PM
Just a quick not.  A lot of the Foo Fighters reports I have read did not describe mechanical devices.
http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/roswell-battelle-memory-metal-the-new-revelations-by-anthony-bragalia/

And also interesting that it was again the Navy and NOT the Army who didn't seem to have a clue what was happening apparently.

So was Phil Corso right?  I think we still can't be sure.  It is possible that the alloys were developed after analysis of Roswell debris by Battelle or others giving clues as to what metals would make the alloys useful.  I do think Corso has links to some shadowy figures in the intelligence community but that does not prove anything.

One thing I will say is that I have never seen any convincing evidence that there was still a Nazi base operating in 1947.


Sorry if my post seems rushed (it is) and a mish mash of loosely related statements but I'm doing several things at once. :D

Well, I have read annecdotes to suggest that Nazi Officers where stationed and operating various points with US military industrial complex (some of which we are all aware of), however, I am interested in the possible Nazi officer connections to Roswell, Battell and Navy Intel - this will require several days to prove or disprove I'm sure.

Working with the hypothesis that Nazi's were leading this operation would explain why some compartments are aware of the operation, whilst others were clueless. (Compartmentalisation - but of the Nazi sort)

Howard Cross seems to be the main go-betweem Batelle and Naval Intel, so he is of interest to me.
He was also the guy who was pivvey to and/or authored the 'Pentacle' letter which details UFO propaganda in 1953.
He also had an associate with a man of a German sounding surname beginning with B (I read it not long ago) - I'll get back to you on that one...

In regards to Nazi Bases, Peter Levenda has done some great work on that, although I will need to purchase his books, for example the Colony of  righteousness was still opertaing in the 1970's.

I just don't see why ET seems to be the most 'obvious' answer, when there appear to be very solid grounds that nothing thus far is beyond the reaches of human tech.

Sure, the fist 1/2 of this interview has him contending the foo's were nazi weapons -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7WCUK7VQmY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7WCUK7VQmY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7WCUK7VQmY)

Not sure if anyone has looked at this section but I will put up the link...there is a lot of info here on some of this:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2186.0 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2186.0)

Quote from: Sinny on September 30, 2014, 02:00:47 PM


Besides that, I thought we were discussing Roswell?
I completely disagree with your contention:

Each case should be judged on it's individual merit prior to any generalisations and pattern correlations.
Unless it is proven the nature of Roswell is very much the same nature as all other individual cases your point is void.
And the nature of the Roswell incident is exactly what we are trying to explore here.

Your welcome to judge each of the cases on individual merit.

I have already done so, and so has Pimander to a lesser extent. I have shared the majority of relevant cases with him throughout the years.


My database contains the reports from local newspapers and places I have visited and those are contained in my Day Before Roswell thread.

The rest of the database comes from 3 main sources -


(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dbeb36f43b45.jpg)

http://nicap.org/waves/Wave47Rpt/ReportUFOWave1947_Menu.htm (http://nicap.org/waves/Wave47Rpt/ReportUFOWave1947_Menu.htm)


(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/70fbb924db7b.jpg)

http://www.nicap.org/loedding/LoeddingBook.pdf (http://www.nicap.org/loedding/LoeddingBook.pdf)


Project 1947

http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947a.htm (http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947a.htm)


As well as reports gleaned from Bluebook, Nicap, Mufon and the Seattle UFO reporting center.


Have a look and you will see the common denominator is silent shiny silver discs moving at 'terrific' speed and cutting 90 degree corners.


Another good read from the era for sightings and perspective is -


(http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/fsar/img/fsarcov.jpg)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/fsar/index.htm (http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/fsar/index.htm)


All of the above are free downloads.

You will find that there is some overlap between the 3 databases above, however there are many reports that are unique to that database.


I find these reports very valuable, because once again they come from the people who were actually there.

Quote from: A51Watcher on October 01, 2014, 04:04:58 AM

The rest of the database comes from 3 main sources -


(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dbeb36f43b45.jpg)

http://nicap.org/waves/Wave47Rpt/ReportUFOWave1947_Menu.htm (http://nicap.org/waves/Wave47Rpt/ReportUFOWave1947_Menu.htm)


(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/70fbb924db7b.jpg)

http://www.nicap.org/loedding/LoeddingBook.pdf (http://www.nicap.org/loedding/LoeddingBook.pdf)


Project 1947

http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947a.htm (http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947a.htm)


As well as reports gleaned from Bluebook, Nicap, Mufon and the Seattle UFO reporting center.

But we know that these 'investigations' were controlled to a certain extent.

QuoteHave a look and you will see the common denominator is silent shiny silver discs moving at 'terrific' speed and cutting 90 degree corners.

I could have told you that, even prior to my delving into the UFO field  :D

QuoteI find these reports very valuable, because once again they come from the people who were actually there.

You seem to be missing the fact that those investigations were for public consumption, and they do not account for the control mechanisms we have evidence for in the 1950's... I wonder -  if 'they' were manipulating sightings and investigations in 1952 onwards - could the very same group of people have been operating in this manner prior to 1952?

Your hypothesis, for me,  just does not account for all variables, and I will be more satisfied when it does.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are two very different origins of the UFO phenomena - but neither of them include Grey Aliens from Zeta accidentilly crashing at Roswell  ;D

Sinny,

There is one thing that we have not touched upon in this discussion that you have to discount in its entirety.  That is witness accounts of seeing actual non-human humanoids (is that correct English LOL).  If you accept even a single account of that nature in the hundreds of statements about the Roswell incident (just one) then, as I said, something remarkable did happen in New Mexico that week.

I know that witness testimony can be weak.  But it becomes strong if there are multiple corroborating accounts  and in many States and Countries a person can be sentenced to death based on it.

Of course, the witnesses might have all been delusional, had fading memories, been victims of mind control or were possibly lying on behalf of the state.  If even one was not then there is a fascinating case to solve.

Some examples?

Quote[Dennis spoke with the nurse again the following day.]

She said there were three little bodies. Two of them were just mangled beyond everything, but there was one of them that was really in pretty good condition.

And she said, "Let me show you the difference between our anatomy and theirs. Really, what they looked like was ancient Chinese: small, fragile, no hair." She said their noses didn't protrude, the eyes were set pretty deep, and the ears were just little indentations. She said the anatomy of the arms was different, the upper arm was longer than the lower. They didn't have thumbs, they had four different, she called them "tentacles", I think. Didn't have any fingernails. She then described how they had little things like suction cups on their fingertips.

I asked her were these men or women? [Were their] sex organs the same as ours? She said, "No, some were missing." The first thing that decomposes on a body would be the brain, next the sex organs, especially in women. But she thought there had probably been something, some animals. Some of these bodies were badly mutilated.

She said they got the bodies out of those containers [the ones he had seen in the backs of the ambulances, on the way into the hospital]. See, they weren't at the crash site, they were about a mile or two from the crash site. She said they looked like they had their own little cabins. She said the lower portion, the abdomen and legs, was crushed, but the upper portion wasn't that bad. She told me the head was larger and it was kind of like, the eyes were different.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc397.htm

QuotePappy Henderson's Wife

[Sappho Henderson was Pappy Henderson's wife. She was interviewed by Stanton Friedman.]

We met during World War II when he flew with the 446th Bomb Squadron. He flew B-24s [on] thirty missions over Germany. After the war, he returned home and was then sent to Roswell. While stationed there, he ran the "Green Hornet Airline", which involved flying C-54s and C-47s carrying VIPs, scientists, and materials from Roswell to the Pacific during the atom bomb tests. He had to have a Top Secret clearance for this responsibility.

In 1980 or 1981, he picked up a newspaper at a grocery store where we were living in San Diego. One article described the crash of a UFO outside Roswell, with the bodies of aliens discovered beside the craft. He pointed out the article to me and said, "I want you to read this article, because it's a true story. I'm the pilot who flew the wreckage of the UFO to Dayton, Ohio [where Wright Field is]. I guess now that they're putting it in the paper, I can tell you about this. I wanted to tell you for years." Pappy never discussed his work because of his security clearance.

He described the beings as small with large heads for their size. He said the material that their suits were made of was different than anything he had ever seen. He said they looked strange. I believe he mentioned that the bodies had been packed in dry ice to preserve them.

[Here is what Sappho Henderson said on the American television program "Unsolved Mysteries".]

My husband Oliver Henderson, otherwise known as "Pappy" in the Air Force, he was entrusted with many of this country's top secrets. And they were safe with him. He never told anything that he wasn't supposed to. And therefore it was 34 years after this incident happened that I heard about it....

My husband told me the bodies were smaller than human bodies. The heads were larger and the eyes were rather sunken and a little slanted. Clothing was of material unlike anything he had seen before. They were strange, they were not of this earth.

When my husband, who was a man of truth, who was trusted with 29 different Army aircraft planes, first pilot aircraft commander, tells me this story, I believed him.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc397.htm

Quote2002 SEALED AFFIDAVIT OF WALTER G. HAUT

DATE: December 26, 2002

WITNESS: Chris Xxxxxx

NOTARY: Beverlee Morgan

(1) My name is Walter G. Haut

(2) I was born on June 2, 1922

(3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203

(4) I am retired.

(5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.

(6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.

(7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.

(8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.

(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.

(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch Northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.

(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."

(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.

(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.

(14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.

(15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).

(16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.

(17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.

(18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.

(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.

(20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.

Signed: Walter G. Haut

December 26, 2002

Signature witnessed by:

Chris Xxxxxxx

Source & References:

Affidavit extracted from:

Witness to Roswell: by Thomas J. Carey and Donald R. Schmitt, 2007 http://www.ufocasebook.com/hautaffidavitt.html

Read Witness to Roswell by Schmitt and Carey.  I can lend you a copy if you are skint but I want it back.  If you can discount the testimony then it is simple to move on from the Roswell case.  It is certainly not simple to disregard so much testimony.


I agree with your sentiment about most cases having an Earthly explanation.  There might well be one to this case but it is definitely not easy to dismiss. :)

Pi,

Hand in hand with the Nazi scenario also comes a scenario involving 'genetic mutations' of earthly beings.
I'll also be exploring early flight tests conducted over the same periods involving monkey's in craft..
And I suppose 'mind control' shouldn't so readily be over looked.

I do not discount testimony - as testimony is sometimes the most accurate and reliable, and only source of information.
I only have testimony to back up some of the very real events that I have witnessed.
However, the validity and crediblty of testimony should always be questioned and evaluated.

As previosuly stated I do have an issue with testimony that is old rather than fresh, and as stated previosuly I have an issue with the ease with which these testimonies were offered whilst dealing with issue's concerning national security. I refer you to my points made on page 1&2. 

Where else do we hear of these 'little aliens'?

The Abduction Phenomena.

Throughout my recent research in regards to abduction by these so called small alien beings, much of this has been found to have be false/screen memories, and also lead back to very earthly origins.

The earliest description and witness we have to these little grey aliens, is that of Alistair Crowely and a handful of other 'adepts'.
In those instances - the beings could materialise and dematerialise - and would not fall victim to earthly death.
And they did not go by the name of 'ET'.

As I say, two years ago I swallowed the Roswell alien theory like I'd swallow a pint of lager after work.
However in hind sight - why would 'they' have me so readily believe this theory?

I tend to find the real truth gets buried, whilst real investigators end up real dead, real soon. 

So when I have certain people pushing a certain story, whilst they are very much alive and not under threat - I raise an eyebrow  ???

I only seek the truth, and would just as much love to be proven wrong in my current line of thought as much as I would like to be proven correct.

Thus far (and this is partly note keeping for myself), people skeptical of the Alien Roswell Hypothesis include:

Nick Redfurn
William Lyne
Martin Cannon
Jospeh P Farrell
Peter Levenda
Richard Dolan
Richard Hoagland
Richard Sauder
Jim Keith

Each of the above believe's that there is a very solid case for much of what we attribute to ET, being of Earthly origin.
I do intend to make an indepth study and evaluation of the two opposing theories - alas, I'm sure from an academic point of view this could take years, however I'm glad I stumbled across these people and their works - makes a nice change from spooks and perps of the 80's clogging up the scene.

Cheers for the offer on the book, I'm busy reading a fair few at the moment, so I may take you up on that when times allows, thanking you.

Another line of study I'd love to get round to is correlating the theories of all UFOlogists/Scientists/parapsychologist's that died suspiciously, and collate their information for any underlying patterns - based on my theory stated above.

I have Earthly University studies starting up again  - I wish I could dedicate more time to this, but hey ho -one book at a time eh.

Besides that, I have witnessed over 30 'UFO's'.
The most interesting and significant being in daylight and close proximity - why have I not been abducted? lol
Or have I been abducted?
Might have to mess around with the olde hypno regression at some point in the future aha.

Not sure if I shared this here before - so I'll quickly add it here, although it's probably not significatnt in any aspect.

I had a dream the once (2010/11 perhaps), I was in bed at the house previosuly detailed as the vantage point from which my 'Saucer' experience and others have taken place. It was dark, and probably the early hours, I was laying on my side looking at my bedroom window thinking I should draw the curtains closed, as I've always had an irrational  fear of seeing some sort of monster creep staring at me from there, even though I'm a floor up, and that's illogical.  As I was thinking that, two 'grey aliens'n appeared on the outside of the window, and stared through for about a minute, after a minute, one of them like 'melded' through the glass window, and took a  seat on my window sill. At that point I woke up.

Very strange - I have never before or since dreampt about aliens, especially not they 'grey' sort.

It just makes me ponder the implications of such stories is all.

Quote from: Sinny on October 01, 2014, 04:53:42 PM
Hand in hand with the Nazi scenario also comes a scenario involving 'genetic mutations' of earthly beings.

From my own specialist knowledge in the field I can say this is not the explanation for Roswell.

QuoteI'll also be exploring early flight tests conducted over the same periods involving monkey's in craft..

That interests me too.

QuoteAs previosuly stated I do have an issue with testimony that is old rather than fresh, and as stated previosuly I have an issue with the ease with which these testimonies were offered whilst dealing with issue's concerning national security. I refer you to my points made on page 1&2. 

Some of the statements have been made by people who were children at the time.  This is an incredibly complicated case for me.

QuoteWhere else do we hear of these 'little aliens'?

The Abduction Phenomena.

There is more.....

QuoteThroughout my recent research in regards to abduction by these so called small alien beings, much of this has been found to have be false/screen memories, and also lead back to very earthly origins.

There are those cases definitely.  I think the abduction thing is probably not what t has been presented as for many reasons.  For a start there must be too many cases to explain as simple nuts and bolts saucers turning up.

QuoteThe earliest description and witness we have to these little grey aliens, is that of Alistair Crowely and a handful of other 'adepts'.
In those instances - the beings could materialise and dematerialise - and would not fall victim to earthly death.
And they did not go by the name of 'ET'.

What if I said there was a picture of something like a grey found in Tibet?  I think it was found dead during WW2.  I'm fairly certain the picture is not on the web.....

Quote
However in hind sight - why would 'they' have me so readily believe this theory?

That is irrelevant in terms of establishing whether it is true.  It either is or is not true.

QuoteI tend to find the real truth gets buried, whilst real investigators end up real dead, real soon. 

So when I have certain people pushing a certain story, whilst they are very much alive and not under threat - I raise an eyebrow  ???

I disagree.  Only certain very specific matters are that sensitive.

QuoteThus far (and this is partly note keeping for myself), people skeptical of the Alien Roswell Hypothesis include:

Nick Redfurn
William Lyne
Martin Cannon
Jospeh P Farrell
Peter Levenda
Richard Dolan
Richard Hoagland
Richard Sauder
Jim Keith

Each of the above believe's that there is a very solid case for much of what we attribute to ET, being of Earthly origin.

Hoaxland?  I won't go into why I think so here as it would take an age but a few of those characters are probably on the payroll.  Confusing isn't it. LOL

Quote
It just makes me ponder the implications of such stories is all.

So if they are also physical?  I'm baffled too mate.  The picture could be fake but there is something about it.....

Quote from: Sinny on October 01, 2014, 10:17:20 AM
But we know that these 'investigations' were controlled to a certain extent.


You seem to be missing the fact that those investigations were for public consumption, and they do not account for the control mechanisms we have evidence for in the 1950's... I wonder -  if 'they' were manipulating sightings and investigations in 1952 onwards - could the very same group of people have been operating in this manner prior to 1952?

Actually the exact opposite is true.

If you had given the 3 volumes even a cursory examination, you would see that these 'investigations' were not and could not have been controlled or manipulated by the government.

This is the one area of information outside their control.

That is yet another reason why these reports are so valuable. 


I have interviewed several people quoted in the newspaper and their story remains unchanged to this day, and even gleaned a few additional details.

Give your fellow citizens some credit.

Speaking of Schulgen and the estimate of the situation, turns out Kevin Randles' latest blog entry today is on that very subject -


"Roswell, Nathan Twining and the Mini-EOTS

There is a misunderstanding about the Twining letter and it is about what caused it to be written. To understand it in the context of the time, it is necessary to understand why the letter was written.

In July 1947, an officer who worked for Brigadier General George Schulgen put together an Estimate of the Situation, which is not to be confused with the big one that was written later. This mini-EOTS covered a number of sightings that had been made early in 1947, including a few that had preceded Arnold. LTC George Garrett was the officer who wrote this EOTS that was sent to LTG Nathan Twining at Wright Field for analysis. I covered all this in Government UFO Files, which, if I was smart, is all I would say about it, making those interested in this discussion buy the book. However, and with the help of many others including Dr. Michael Swords ...

In July 1947, Garrett believed that nothing useful would be found by additional Air Force (really Army Air Forces) investigation of the flying saucer reports. Both Garrett and Schulgen decided that the answer was held above their pay grade and thought of a way to pass the buck back up the chain of command so they would no longer have to deal with it. They were quite certain that when they assembled their information in what might be considered an intelligence Estimate of the Situation, they would be told that those at the top knew what the flying saucers were and there would be no need to continue to investigate. Or, I suppose, you might say that this is what they hoped would happen.

Garrett began his work on his Estimate in the beginning of July, 1947. He selected sixteen flying saucer reports that seemed to demonstrate the truly unusual nature of the phenomenon, and then provided his analysis of the data that had been collected.

The first case he mentioned preceded that by Kenneth Arnold; the man many believe "launched" the UFO phenomena as we know it today, by over a month. That sighting, from Manitou Springs, Colorado happened sometime between 12:15 and 1:15 p.m. on May 19, 1947. This was a silver object that remained motionless, giving the three witnesses a good look at it, and then made a number of aerobatic maneuvers before disappearing at incredible speed. The sighting report mentioned that it had been watched through optical instruments and had been in sight for over two minutes meaning they had time to study it carefully. This sighting does not appear in the Project Blue Book files, though it was used as support for Garrett's conclusions at the end of this study which in and of itself is interesting..."


Much more on the story at the link -

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/ (http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/)


(There ya go Pim, pre- Arnold!)

I think Randle makes a very good point here.

QuoteIf the flying saucers were a U.S. project, then the last thing anyone at the higher levels of the chain of command would have wanted would be an official investigation. Any investigation would be a threat to the security of the project. To end such an investigation one of those on the inside of the secret would have to drop a hint to someone on the outside. If, for example, it was such a secret project that General Twining and the AMC were outside the loop, then another general, on the inside, could call Twining to tell him to drop the investigation. He wouldn't have to spill any details of the secret project, only tell Twining that it was something he didn't need to worry about and the answer was not Soviet or anything else that could threaten national security. Twining would then end his inquiries, secure in the knowledge that the solution to the mystery was already known to someone inside the US military and the government.

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.co.uk/

It is a good argument in favour of rejecting the USA secret project hypothesis for the 40s cases.

What do you think Sinny?

I'm still inclined towards my US/Nazi terrestrial tech hypothesis.

I'm extremely pushed for time at the moment, but I will be returning to the subject and yours and A51's points when I have the time to present my idea's fully rather than half heartedly.. In the mean time, I'm still looking up points in support of my theory.

Quote from: Sinny on October 08, 2014, 03:47:19 PM
I'm still inclined towards my US/Nazi terrestrial tech hypothesis.

I'm extremely pushed for time at the moment, but I will be returning to the subject and yours and A51's points when I have the time to present my idea's fully rather than half heartedly.. In the mean time, I'm still looking up points in support of my theory.

What I might suggest is that You're all right.  Some UFO's are ET; most are Human tech.

Quote from: Sinny on October 08, 2014, 03:47:19 PM
I'm still inclined towards my US/Nazi terrestrial tech hypothesis.

I'm extremely pushed for time at the moment, but I will be returning to the subject and yours and A51's points when I have the time to present my idea's fully rather than half heartedly.. In the mean time, I'm still looking up points in support of my theory.

If it was US/Nazi terrestrial tech why have we not seen any of it filter down after almost 70 years? I think there is mor to it than that.

QuoteIf it was US/Nazi terrestrial tech why have we not seen any of it filter down after almost 70 years? I think there is mor to it than that.

If you haven't noticed you haven't been paying attention to detail. one prime example is the "Victalen Armor" which was called "Frozen Smoke" today known as AEROGEL. Another is to look at those old Nazi designs particularly those of Richard Miethe and compare that to the declassified AVRO project 1794. Not to mention if you actually go looking for patents for some of these craft...you can find them easily enough.

Your right there is more to it than an aliens vs. Nazi craft debate. It is hard to distinguish when BOTH phenomenon are existing.

Quote from: Ellirium113 on October 09, 2014, 12:40:19 PM
Your right there is more to it than an aliens vs. Nazi craft debate. It is hard to distinguish when BOTH phenomenon are existing.

Ken Arnold possibly spotted some Horton Wing type craft (Nazi origin) and/or a Navy test plane that also looked disk(ish) shaped. I seriously doubt that the late 1940s USA wave was all down to Nazi technology though.

A lot of the anomalous radar stuff was down to the newly acquired (from the Brits) radar spoofing and other electronic counter measures which was top secret at the time.

Some of the apparent capabilities were just way beyond anything Nazi or US though.  Either the sightings were fabricated/exaggerated to put off serious investigators from studying real technology or some of the craft were not Nazi or USA technology.

One way to work out which sightings were ours is to analyse which sightings did not make it into Project Blue Book (http://www.bluebookarchive.org/).  The ones that did not make it contained real classified information most likely. ;)

Quote from: Ellirium113 on October 09, 2014, 12:40:19 PM
If you haven't noticed you haven't been paying attention to detail. one prime example is the "Victalen Armor" which was called "Frozen Smoke" today known as AEROGEL. Another is to look at those old Nazi designs particularly those of Richard Miethe and compare that to the declassified AVRO project 1794. Not to mention if you actually go looking for patents for some of these craft...you can find them easily enough.

Your right there is more to it than an aliens vs. Nazi craft debate. It is hard to distinguish when BOTH phenomenon are existing.

I'm more referring to the craft that have been documented by the military doing right angle turns, fly at over 5,000 mph, those from that time when we had not even broken the sound barrier. You would think how far computers have come in just a few years, we should after 60+ have passenger craft visiting the planets!

Quote from: Ellirium113 on October 09, 2014, 12:40:19 PM
If you haven't noticed you haven't been paying attention to detail. one prime example is the "Victalen Armor" which was called "Frozen Smoke" today known as AEROGEL. Another is to look at those old Nazi designs particularly those of Richard Miethe and compare that to the declassified AVRO project 1794. Not to mention if you actually go looking for patents for some of these craft...you can find them easily enough.

Your right there is more to it than an aliens vs. Nazi craft debate. It is hard to distinguish when BOTH phenomenon are existing.

I second the general idea within this post - I came across that AEROGEL about two hours ago, how cool is that  :D

Quote from: myss427 on October 09, 2014, 01:08:16 PM
I'm more referring to the craft that have been documented by the military doing right angle turns, fly at over 5,000 mph, those from that time when we had not even broken the sound barrier. You would think how far computers have come in just a few years, we should after 60+ have passenger craft visiting the planets!

I'd just like to point out that I agree that none of our 'individual' explanations need be mutually exclusive.

As we are all aware UFO's have been around for thousands of years, and not just 60.
Reports of activity on the moon spanning the last 500 years interest me.

I currently believe the VIABLE aspects of UFOlogy include Demonology and Occultism, a possible Break Away Civilisation, and and ET deception perpetrated by certain Governments in modern history.

In regards to Roswell, my gut is telling me there were no aliens.

Dr. Karla Turner, not long before she died, insisted we remain objective and stick to the FACTS.

She raised some very good points, and whilst she was investigating her own and others abductions, she did reach the conclusion that there is ZERO EVIDENCE of ET. On the other hand, there was MUCH  evidence to suggest a terrestrial explanation.

I think that rule quite easily applies to the whole phenomena at this stage.

Quote from: Pimander on October 09, 2014, 12:52:02 PM
Ken Arnold possibly spotted some Horton Wing type craft (Nazi origin) and/or a Navy test plane that also looked disk(ish) shaped.

I was going to suggest the same.

QuoteSome of the apparent capabilities were just way beyond anything Nazi or US though.

But the fact remains, neither you nor I are in any position to be stating that as fact. 

QuoteEither the sightings were fabricated/exaggerated to put off serious investigators from studying real technology or some of the craft were not Nazi or USA technology.

I suggest both of these, following on from my three possible explanations presented above.

I'd also like to highlight that the Maury Island affair was clearly orchestrated. Hense my argument that there has been a control system in place since at least 1947.

I'll expand when A51 asks me too  :P

Quote from: Sinny on October 09, 2014, 01:58:35 PM
But the fact remains, neither you nor I are in any position to be stating that as fact. 

Well either the witnesses were all mistaken or lying or there is something unexplained.  I'll say it is an almost certain fact that "we" had no technology capable of some of what was witnessed.

QuoteI'd also like to highlight that the Maury Island affair was clearly orchestrated.

You are correct.  It was a hoax.  There was definitely some interesting goings on around old Kenneth. :)

There is definitely documentary proof from FOIAs that Corso was seen by sections of intel as a pain in the ass.  It was well have been the CIA if I remember but I can't remember where I saw them.

Quote"Corso's military record confirms that from 1953 to 1956, he was given intelligence staff assignments on both the Psychological Strategy Board (PSB) and the Operations Coordinating Board (OCB).



This is consistent with an FBI Report that states that Corso was "assigned to the Operations Coordinating Board (OCB), National Security Council."10



It can therefore be confirmed that Corso was assigned as an intelligence staff member to at least two committees that performed important psychological warfare functions within the Eisenhower administration.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/exopolitica/esp_exopolitics_ZZO.htm

QuoteGiven the information available, given the mistakes in Corso's book, and given his inflation of his own importance during his military career, it seems that the logical conclusion is that Corso's claims are of little value. They added nothing to what was already known, and certainly have detracted from the whole of the Roswell case. When his claims break apart, those who know little about Roswell become convinced that the whole case is built on structures similar to those built by Corso.

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/philip-corso-and-day-after-roswell-again.html

SO was Corso trying to distract us from something or not?

Quote from: Pimander on October 21, 2014, 01:41:25 AM
SO was Corso trying to distract us from something or not?

Cough, Nazi's, cough! Lol

Or alternatively, if the Shickshinny Knights were really full of 'White Russians' then perhaps those to...

Dr. Peter Beter spoke about the White Russians being far superior to the US in regards to space weapons and tech... Beter seemed to know a lot.. And guess what - for all his 'conspiracy theories' he never once mentioned aliens..

Roswell or Bust

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Transosonde.png)

If they wanted to downplay it and say "oh it's a weather balloon" then WHY did they launch project SIGN and GRUDGE???

The first official investigation, carried out by the U.S. Air Force, into reports of "flying disks." Project Sign (officially known as Special Project HT-304) was established on December 30, 1947, in response to the massive wave of sightings that year (see saucer flap of 1947) and following recommendations by Lieutenant-General Nathan F. Twining, the head of Air Materiel Command (AMC). It was staffed by members of AMC's Technical Intelligence Division, based at Wright Field (now Wright-Patterson AFB), Dayton, Ohio, and began work on January 22, 1948.

At the outset, the consensus among Sign researchers seems to have been that the flying disks (UFOs) were real and were most likely advanced Soviet aircraft, possibly developed from German prototypes captured at the end of World War II. During the 368 days of Sign's existence, however, opinion shifted to the extent that in a secret document entitled, Estimate of the Situation, which reached U.S.A.F. Chief of Staff General Hoyt S. Vandenburg in early October 1948, it was suggested that the extraterrestrial hypothesis offered the best solution to the mystery of the flying disks. Vandenburg rejected this conclusion, the document was declassified a few months later, and all copies of it were ordered burned. When the destruction order became public knowledge, in the mid-1950s, it served to inflame a growing belief that the government was orchestrating a cover-up as to the true nature of UFOs. Subsequent denials by the Air Force that the Estimate document had ever existed only further exacerbated the situation. Following Vandenburg's rejection of the extraterrestrial hypothesis, supporters of this view at Sign were gradually reassigned to other duties until skeptics became the majority. In its final report, Project Sign expressed itself guardedly on the extraterrestrial issue:
It is hard to believe that any technically accomplished race would come here, flaunt its ability in mysterious ways and then simply go away ... Only one motive can be assigned; that the spacemen are "feeling out" our defenses without wanting to be belligerent. If so, they must have been satisfied long ago that we can't catch them... Although visits from outer space are believed to be possible, they are believed to be very improbable. In particular, the actions attributed to the "flying objects" reported during 1947 and 1948 seem inconsistent with the requirements for space travel.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/Sign.html (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/Sign.html)

The second investigation into the problem of "flying disks" (or UFOs as they were soon to become known) carried out by the US Air Force, following the year-long Project Sign. Unlike its predecessor, Grudge was dismissive of the extraterrestrial hypothesis and sought instead to explain away sightings in terms of natural phenomena (such as the planet Venus) or illusions. To this end, it appointed an astronomical consultant, J. Allen Hynek. However, Grudge's attempts to demystify all the claimed aerial activity had the opposite effect to that intended. Supporters of the extraterrestrial hypothesis began to ask why, if the Air Force regarded UFOs as easily explicable, it had shown so much interest in them? In 1950, Donald Keyhoe began making accusations of a cover-up. Ironically, at the end of the same year, Grudge had been wound down to such an extent that the investigation team consisted of a single junior officer. The Air Force's interest in UFOs was briefly revived by a new wave of sightings in 1951-2, following which Grudge gave way to Project Blue Book.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/Grudge.html (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/Grudge.html)

Quote from: zorgon on October 21, 2014, 02:27:29 AM
Roswell or Bust

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Transosonde.png)

Yeah that looks like an alien spacecraft (aka flying saucer) for sure ::)

(https://wikispooks.com/ISGP/organisations/ASC/Ramey_Marcel_switch-a-roo_Roswell_debris.jpg)

Anyone interested in the Roswell incident is probably best off by first watching the 1990 video Recollections of Roswell, which is entirely based on interviews with witnesses and their families and friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuQXkTdv16g

QuoteThese are the original interviews done by ufologist and nuclear physicist, Stanton T. Friedman, of the witnesses to the 1947 Roswell Incident.

0:33 - Bill Brazel ("Mac" Brazel's Son)
1:33 - Loretta Proctor ("Mac" Brazel's Neighbor)
2:37 - Frank Joyce (Former Announcer, KGFL Radio)
4:03 - Phyllis McGuire (Sherrif Wilcox's Daughter)
5:33 - Elizabeth Tulk (Sherrif Wilcox's Daughter)
6:58 - Barbara Dugger (Sherrif Wilcox's Granddaughter)
12:46 - Jesse Marcel (Former Intelligence Officer)
13:26 - Jesse Marcel Jr. (Son of Intelligence Officer)
16:39 - Lewis Rickett (Former CIC Sergeant)
20:16 - George "Jud" Roberts (Former Manager, KGFL Radio)
21:15 - Frank Joyce (Former Announcer, KGFL Radio)
22:28 - Lydia Sleppy (Former Secretary, KOAT Radio)
22:59 - Marian Strickland (Brazel's Neighbor)
23:50 - Walter Haut (Former Public Information Officer)
25:06 - Robert Shirkey (Former Base Operations Officer)
28:37 - Robert Porter (Former Flight Engineer)
30:30 - Robert Smith (Former Flight Crew Member)
34:10 - Robert Slusher (Former Flight Crew Member)
38:28 - Beverly Bean (Melvin Brown's Daughter)
41:30 - Jesse Marcel (Former Intelligence Officer)
41:41 - Brig. Gen. Thomas DuBose (USAF [Ret.])
42:50 - Bill Brazel ("Mac" Brazel's Son)
44:00 - Glenn Dennis (Former Mortician)
1:03:23 - Sappho Henderson (Pilot Henderson's Widow)
1:05:25 - Katherine Groode (Pilot Henderson's Daughter)
1:06:00 - John Kromschroeder (Pilot Henderson's Friend)
1:07:18 - Vern Maltais (Barnett's Friend)
1:08:52 - Alice Knight (Barnett's Niece)
1:10:16 - Harold Baca (Barnett's Neighbor)
1:13:24 - Robert Drake (Retired Archaeologist)
1:15:16 - Gerald Anderson

How does a balloon crash in multiple places?  Why would a general fly in from the Pentagon to take control of a balloon crash.  No doubt there is more to the case as Zorgon full well knows. ::)

Quote from: A51Watcher on September 30, 2014, 03:56:46 AM
The Battelle connection has had recent corroboration.

I posted a link and the story not long ago here on Peggy.

I'm sure Peggy's search can turn it up.

Was searching for your link A51 - no luck, I found one from Z but that's all.

I have been looking into the validity of Anthony Bragalia's claims - I've come to realise it was speculation rather than fact that he is relying on.

His so called Roswell - Battelle link comes from... More heresay:

Quote
In May of 1992, noted historical researcher Dr. Irena Scott of Columbus, OH (herself a former Battelle scientist) interviewed a close professional associate of Elroy Center. Elroy had privately related to him in June of 1960 that while he was employed at Battelle he had been involved in a very strange laboratory project. Center said that earlier he had been tasked by his superiors to assist on a highly-classified Battelle study that was contracted by the government. He said that the project involved work on a very unusual material. Center understood that this debris material was retrieved by the US government from the earlier crash of a UFO. Center referred to the item he studied as a "piece." He explained that this "piece" was not something with which anyone was familiar. He also said that the debris had been inscribed with strange symbols that he called "glyphics." Similar markings have of course been reported by some of the witnesses to the Roswell crash debris. Center stopped short of providing any further details. The Battelle scientist passed away in 1991.

http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/roswell-debris-confirmed-as-extraterrestrial-lab-located-scientists-named-by-anthony-bragalia/

How convenient that this is disclosed a year after his death, and not on his own death bed.

Well now, if anything this particular case has opened my eye's to the so called 'researchers' out to make a quick buck (not aimed at Anthony in particular, but certainly very, very many surrounding this case).

Battelle is interesting

When we were out at John's mine before he was evicted... I saw the white vans ( I have posted that full story here somewhere)

They had Battelle Institute on the side.

Still don't know WHY they were out there and more important where they disappeared to.  It was like an episode of Eureka...  the dirt roads all end in the mountains... where did these vans come and go from?

Oddly enough those white vans were seen in photos of the recent Bundy Ranch incident

Bundy Ranch is in Gold Butte... same area where John's mine was. John was shut down by Harry Reid, same guy that called Bundy and crew "Terrorists"

Quote from: zorgon on October 21, 2014, 08:03:40 PM
Battelle is interesting

When we were out at John's mine before he was evicted... I saw the white vans ( I have posted that full story here somewhere)

They had Battelle Institute on the side.

Still don't know WHY they were out there and more important where they disappeared to.  It was like an episode of Eureka...  the dirt roads all end in the mountains... where did these vans come and go from?

Oddly enough those white vans were seen in photos of the recent Bundy Ranch incident

Bundy Ranch is in Gold Butte... same area where John's mine was. John was shut down by Harry Reid, same guy that called Bundy and crew "Terrorists"

Yea I was just reading the story...

Bundy Ranch eh... Must be sitting on resources of some sort..

J. A. Hynek mentioned two other corporations in relation to his business with Battelle and white Stork... About to go dig those up this evening..

Do a Google search for "battelle memory metal" (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=battelle%20memory%20metal)

Memory-metal files are missing
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090521/BLOG32/905219954

Quote from: zorgon on October 21, 2014, 08:41:18 PM
Do a Google search for "battelle memory metal" (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=battelle%20memory%20metal)

Memory-metal files are missing
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090521/BLOG32/905219954

The  "Pentacle Memorandum" episode:

Quote17-AUGUST-1993 - The "Pentacle Memorandum" has been a controversial item since its existence was revealed to the wider UFO community by Dr. Jacques Vallee in his excellent work Forbidden Science, (Copyright 1992, Jacques Vallee, North Atlantic Books, Berkeley CA, ISBN 1-55643-125-2).

Vallee found the two page memo in 1967 while working with Dr. Allen Hynek's papers and partially described it in Forbidden Science, giving the author of the memo the code name "Pentacle".

Shortly thereafter, a document which purported to be the Pentacle Memo came into limited circulation among certain researchers.  We obtained our copy from Mr. Barry Greenwood , P.O. Box 218, Coventry, CT 06238).

Among other things, this document contains confirmation that Battelle Memorial Institute was working on UFO project(s) at the time of the Robertson Panel, (January 1953), and apparently could exercise some amount of control over the handling of the subject matter.

You can read all the stuff including the text of correspondence from Dr. Jacques Vallee here:
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/pentacle.htm (http://www.cufon.org/cufon/pentacle.htm)

What makes me even more intrigued about this is why call that memorandum "pentacle" (amulet?).

QuoteA pentacle (also spelled pantacle in Thelema, following Aleister Crowley)[1] is an amulet used in magical evocation, generally made of parchment, paper or metal (although it can be of other materials), on which the symbol of a spirit or energy being evoked is drawn. It is often worn around the neck, or placed within the triangle of evocation. Protective symbols may also be included (sometimes on the reverse), a common one being the five-point form of the Seal of Solomon, called a pentacle of Solomon or pentangle of Solomon.[2] Many varieties of pentacle can be found in the grimoires of Solomonic magic; they are also used in some neopagan magical traditions, such as Wicca, alongside other magical tools.

Etymology

The word is first recorded in English usage in 1561, from earlier French use, in turn from post-classical Latin pentaculum (from penta- "fivefold" + -culum diminutive suffix). The French word had a meaning of "talisman", typically in the shape of a pentagram, but the word could also refer to talismans in the shape of a hexagram.[4]

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/John_Dee%27s_Seal_of_God.jpg/220px-John_Dee%27s_Seal_of_God.jpg)
John Dee's "Seal of God's Truth" (Sigillum Dei Æmeth). British Museum.

Also, L.J. Center seems to be an important part of the puzzle as he supposedly confessed to reviewing actual Roswell frags.

QuoteRumors about Battelle's hidden agendas have been swirling ever since, and one that began floating around in the Nineties was that L.J. Center had supposedly confessed to reviewing actual Roswell frags. But not until DTIC released its Battelle/Nitinol papers did Center's name surface as a co-author of memory-metal research papers for the USAF.

http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/11130/the-endless-memory-metal-intrigues/ (http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/11130/the-endless-memory-metal-intrigues/)

And....

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PXeDY3KOwgA/Som7FrWoYiI/AAAAAAAAEiI/CJjfDZLdpaY/s200/Elroy+J+Center+Battelle+Scientist.jpg)

QuoteELROY CENTER-WHY HIS CONFESSION TO UFO DEBRIS ANALYSIS HAS TO BE TRUE

Center was a Senior Research Chemist who worked for Battelle from 1939-1957 in materials sciences. University of Michigan alumni files and other papers that he authored while at Battelle confirm his employment and position. Originally from Hibbing, MN, Center received a BS in Chemical Engineering from the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor in 1939.

Dr. Irena Scott (a former employee of both Battelle and the Defense Intelligence Agency) had known of Elroy Center's connection to ET metal analysis years before this Battelle report was released. She had even related Center's confession to MUFON, a civilian UFO research organization, as reported in a 1992 Ohio MUFON journal. But Center's name was not known to be associated with the Battelle 1949 metals report until it was received this month under FOIA.

In May of 1992, Dr. Scott talked to a mutual acquaintance who told her that in June of 1960 Center had privately related to him something very disturbing. Center had told his friend that while he was a Research Chemist at Battelle he was directed by his superiors to provide technical assistance on a strange project. He was to conduct evaluation of an unknown material that he was told was retrieved some time prior from a crashed "flying saucer." He said that the debris -like the Roswell debris- had highly unusual hieroglyphic-like markings. Center then stopped short and said nothing more. Center passed in 1991. Center's family confirms his intense interest in UFO study and in the extraterrestrial, including while at Battelle. Additional information confirming Center's involvement is now being developed and will soon be released.

Although this story was known publicly as early as 1992, no one knew that Elroy Center was a co-author of a Battelle report for Wright Patterson that has long been suspected to be associated with Roswell memory metal debris analysis! The likelihood of a story about Center examining UFO debris when at Battelle- and then 17 years later discovering for the first time that he was the very scientist who had co-authored the suspect 1949 Battelle report- cannot be mere coincidence. Of the thousands of reports and employees that Battelle has had over the years- it could not be coincidence that it would be that very report -and that very scientist- that would be associated with the debris analysis- years later!

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2009/08/scientist-admits-to-study-of-roswell.html (http://www.theufochronicles.com/2009/08/scientist-admits-to-study-of-roswell.html)

CLUES FROM BATELLE'S PROGRESS REPORTS

QuoteFrom Battelle's "Second Progress Report" (Contract AF No. 33 (038)-3736) we learned:

1) Battelle had suddenly - after the Roswell crash - undertaken to perfect melting and "metal mixing" techniques and to create purity-levels for Titanium never before attempted. (Ultra-high purity Titanium is required to make memory metal).

2) Elroy Center was applying his new techniques for micro-analysis of novel Titanium alloys.

3) First-ever attempts at alloying Titanium with Nickel and other metals were made, including an expanded Titanium-Nickel "Phase Diagram" - the recipe for memory metal.

4) The report examines other Ti alloys that were later investigated by Wright Patterson for shape-recovery potential (including TiZr)

5) "Elongation" and "Minimum Bend Radius" tests were performed, indicating possible interest in morph-potential. Wright's General Exon recounted to author Kevin Randle similar tests being conducted on the Roswell material.

6) One of the report's authors (Lynn Eastwood) had as his boss Battelle's UFO-involved Dr. Howard Cross. Eastwood supervised Elroy Center confessor to the crash.

Some months later Billy Cox also obtained Battelle's previously missing "First Progress Report" through FOIA requests:

From Battelle's "First Progress Report" on "Research and Development of Titanium Alloys" (Contract AF 33 (038) 3736) we learned:

1) The work of the First Progress Report was similar to that of the Second. First-time ever work on characterization, melting, purification and diagramming of novel Ti alloys were conducted.

2) The report's cover letter is signed by LW (Lynn) Eastwood, whose direct superior was UFO-involved Dr. Howard Cross. Eastwood supervised Elroy Center, who confessed to debris analysis.

3) The report was done at the request of one J.B. Johnson, Chief of the Metallurgy Division at Wright Field in 1947. J.B. Johnson was supervised by Major General LC Craigie, Director of USAF R&D and the Engineering Division. Craigie's personal pilot (Ben Games) was interviewed by this author and by reporter Billy Cox in 2008. Games states that he had personally flown Craigie to Roswell Army Air Field immediately after the crash and then flew him to visit with President Truman.

4) Johnson appears to have facilitated the delivery of the metal ingots for the Battelle study and to have directed the submission and order of the Progress Reports. Johnson's behind the scenes involvement indicates that these studies were of high priority and urgency.

5) Elroy Center's work on Titanium purity (essential to make memory metal) is amplified on by scientists Mallett, Thomas and Griffith. They cite the work of one EJ Chapin of the Metallurgy Division of the Naval Research Laboratories where Nitinol was later said to have been developed.

6) A major discrepancy is found in the report and appears in the following, "The present data do not justify further investigation of binary Titanium-Germanium or Titanium Nickel alloys." However, this was not the case. In Battelle's Second Progress Report, we find that work was indeed continued on Titanium-Nickel alloy, to include feverish work on an extended "phase diagram," methods for melting Titanium, developing purification and micro-analysis techniques, etc. This is more than curious and it seems to indicate that Wright Patterson in fact was hell-bent on having the work continued. In fact results of these continued studies appeared in its next report for Wright under Wright's direction and insistence.

http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.aspx?id=1428 (http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.aspx?id=1428)

To illustrate the case a little more.

Roswell Incident: Department of Defense Interviews - Robert Shirkey / Walter Haut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyy1uJssavg

Quote1st Lt. Robert Shirkey: The base assistant operations officer. Shirkey also witnessed debris being loaded onto the B-29. "...Standing only three feet from the passing procession, we saw boxes full of aluminum-looking metal pieces being carried to the B-29. Major Marcel came along carrying an open box full of what seemed to be scrap metal. It obviously was not aluminum: it did not shine nor reflect like the aluminum on American military airplanes. And sticking up in one corner of the box being carried by Major Marcel was a small 'I-beam' with hieroglyphic-like markings on the inner flange, in some kind of weird color, not black, not purple, but a close approximation of the two. ...A man in civilian dress... was carrying a piece of metal under his left arm... This piece was about the size of a poster drawing board—very smooth, almost glass-like, with torn edges."

Lt. Robert Shirkey: "Standing only three feet from the passing procession, we saw boxes full of aluminum-looking metal pieces being carried to the B-29. ...sticking up in one corner of the box carried by Major Marcel was a small 'I-beam' with hieroglyphic-like markings on the inner flange, in some kind of weird color, not black, not purple, but a close approximation of the two." "I could see the hieroglyphs clearly, the signs were in relief and stood out."

Shirkey said there were other flights, another to Fort Worth, and a B-29 flight directly to Wright Field piloted by Henderson. He also said that he later learned that: "a Sergeant and some airmen went to the crash site and swept up everything, including bodies. The bodies were laid out in Hangar 84. Henderson's flight contained all that material. All of those involved--the Sergeant of the Guards, all of the crewmen, and myself--were shipped out to different bases within two weeks." Walter Haut, Roswell public information officer, who put out the base flying disc press release, mostly denied any other direct knowledge of the incident. However, in his first affidavit he did state, "I am convinced that the material recovered was some type of craft from outer space." [26] Then a few years before his death (in Dec. 2005) he elaborated on that statement. The 2002 affidavit, to be released after his death he stated he had direct knowledge about a spacecraft and aliens. "Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84, a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. ...I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet (4.6 m) in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet (1.8 m) high, and more of an egg shape. ...Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas over the bodies suggested the size of a 10-year old child. ...[Later Blanchard] would extend his arm about 4 feet (1.2 m) above the floor to indicate the height. I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies. ...I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space."

Lt. Walter Haut, Roswell public information officer, in his 2002 affidavit claimed an elaborate coverup was carried out: "On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel, CIC Capt. Sheridan Cavitt [names other senior officers], and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County... A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles (64 km) north of town. ...One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated with his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished. At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters..." In addition, Haut stated that he "was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence."

Quote from: zorgon on October 21, 2014, 08:41:18 PM
Do a Google search for "battelle memory metal" (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=battelle%20memory%20metal)

Memory-metal files are missing
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090521/BLOG32/905219954

Yes - the facts are, the files are missing.

The speculation, with no evidence, is the ET origin of the subject matter.

Quote from: Sinny on October 22, 2014, 01:08:16 AM
Yes - the facts are, the files are missing. \

Well they are probably at the AF Labs where they are working on the morphing metal

Michigan Aerospace engineers are using new materials and techniques to allow airplane wings to flex and move more like bird wings. Instead of traditional flaps, they are designing wings that can morph based on an electrical inputs.

http://afrl.dodlive.mil/tag/nanomaterials/

Found a website that has tons of interesting books in downloadable PDF files..all FREE for the taking.
Enjoy!
https://decryptedmatrix.com/live/pdf-mastervault/

Interesting interview with Dr. Farrell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cesfr9pK89M

Quote from: myss427 on October 09, 2014, 01:08:16 PM
I'm more referring to the craft that have been documented by the military doing right angle turns, fly at over 5,000 mph, those from that time when we had not even broken the sound barrier. You would think how far computers have come in just a few years, we should after 60+ have passenger craft visiting the planets!

According to Ben Rich, former President and CEO of the Lockheed Skunkworks. "We now have the technology to take ET home."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ZZekWMiUQ

I still have a problem trying to recall many of the facts or what maybe the more likely plausable / possible stories in ref to Roswell... its such an indepth topic...maybe more than most in the UFO researchers tasks.

I have various things that seem to come and go in my mind with ref to some of the past videos or TV programs  that I have watched about it...

and I would have to reread some of the threads on PRC to try to recall some of the things that I thought that I may had been concluded in the past...

I just watched this UK TV program on Roswell.. and it brought back some thoughts on it.

One point that still was a surprise upon rewatching this, was that the Story although occurred in 1947 ,where it was reported in the news next day..that a crashed Disc had landed in Roswell... then it says the next day it was then reported as being a weather Balloon.

(I was not sure when the Balloon Story came out...I thought it was some time after..not the very next day
or was there some other related story that came about much later that was in more depth...maybe it came out later about the test crash dummies also in ref with the balloon)

Then it seems it was forgotten about until 1978...

where the Program suggest that this was from the chance meeting between Jessie Marcel (The Airforce Intelligence officer involved in investigating the Roswell crash )and Stanton Freedman...who is known as a well known UFO researcher.

The Story then only came more well known about  when Stanton Freedman started to further investigate it and then tell his findings to the World..

Since his research and the  facts that he has informed us about..

There are now very few of the persons who he interviewed still alive..

but he did manage to  record most of the interviews..

There is only Jessie Marcel's son who later became a  Doctor / Flight Surgeon who is still alive , who has claimed to have actually witnessed  the parts of the damaged disc.

http://marceljr.com/about.html

The video shows other facts from some other researchers about the Alien Bodies found at a 2nd crash site..

The Narrator to the video I think does quite a good job at raising many points and at times his voice tone may seem to ridicule some of the facts...but then he may raise some opposing sides to them that may seem to support some of them.

The Narrator has done a series of related  TV programs "The strangest UFO stories of all time". and in some cases I think his ridiculing of many of the stories and cases may have been deserved..

I think the video is worth watching as it raises and reminds  us of some facts that may not have been recalled or even realized..

The strangest UFO stories of all time ..Roswell the Truth


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yz8srQJuxI

Are you watching the old smoke screen that followed too Astro ?, it certainly came to earth :D

funshell

you'll have to be quick though, it appears to be approaching its final conclusion , will the alien shapeshifters repair their ship on time , will the sheriffs gang of twerps stop their escape ... !! such drama , I can barely stop the blood running from my ears :D

funbox

Assuming that I think I understand what you have suggested....I am aware of some of the smoke screens that those involved came up with..and I think even the video that I just posted covers them..and I recall mainly the Balloon and Crash test dummies as being the main ones..

But did something really come to land on Earth from outer space...I think so far has only made me think more possible since A51 Watchers research...

Otherwise I may not have managed to make any conclusions from the smoke screens.. ???

QuoteAre you watching the old smoke screen that followed too Astro ?, it certainly came to earth :D

I assume again this relates to Roswell and some of the other things that we have come about in our research on PRC on other related or maybe connected topics.. unless there is some other material on Roswell that you know about that covers what you seem to suggest in more detail..

After watching some further X Files series..after Mulder seems to have seen quite a few Aliens / UFOs... he then meets up with someone who trys to convince him that what hes seen has all been a smoke screen and set up...where who ever was involved went to great lengths to attempt to do so...

Then Mulder later has more dealings with the Cigarette man who is now trying to suggest that Aliens / UFOs really do exist on Earth..

so the series is starting to get more interesting..

I still wonder does any of that connect with much of the stuff we try to research.. :-\  ???

One researcher that I had recently been following who came out with some what seems to me new interesting suggestions / material is now been suggested as having been murdered...and another of his associates also had been found dead 4 days apart..

Rather concerning !

Quote from: funbox on July 31, 2016, 05:28:57 PM
you'll have to be quick though, it appears to be approaching its final conclusion , will the alien shapeshifters repair their ship on time , will the sheriffs gang of twerps stop their escape ... !! such drama , I can barely stop the blood running from my ears :D

funbox

Quote from: astr0144 on July 31, 2016, 06:07:11 PM

Assuming that I think I understand what you have suggested....I am aware of some of the smoke screens that those involved came up with..and I think even the video that I just posted covers them..and I recall mainly the Balloon and Crash test dummies as being the main ones..

But did something really come to land on Earth from outer space...

yes it was after the documentary you watched yesterday ,"it came from outer space" a right old cheese fest by no mistake

QuoteI assume again this relates to Roswell and some of the other things that we have come about in our research on PRC on other related or maybe connected topics.. unless there is some other material on Roswell that you know about that covers what you seem to suggest in more detail..

no new details Astro , I like to refer to the rash of Alien B movies released in the 50's, as an ideological smokescreen.

should make sense now :D

funbox

You took me by surprise Funbox if you had also been watching or aware of the same TV Program that I referred to (Maybe you had already seen it or even did also watch it ) and was also awaiting the film that followed... ???

I did see the first 5 minutes of the Movie where something crash landed...Maybe I should have watched the rest of it...but I had not been initially considering it..

Quoteyes it was after the documentary you watched yesterday ,"it came from outer space" a right old cheese fest by no mistake

Quote from: astr0144 on August 01, 2016, 08:55:51 PM
You took me by surprise Funbox if you had also been watching or aware of the same TV Program that I referred to (Maybe you had already seen it or even did also watch it ) and was also awaiting the film that followed... ???

I did see the first 5 minutes of the Movie where something crash landed...Maybe I should have watched the rest of it...but I had not been initially considering it..

don't worry Astro  :D, I'm not Omni present , co incidences follow me about like a bad smell, im used to them now but , well.. sometimes,  others :D

yes , maybe you should have continued, mega cheesy , but you may see that the x-files and its concepts are rinse repeats.. take the shapeshifting bounty hunter for instance ... turns out, in that film, his ideological predecessor was a one eyed Cyclops snot ball *trueform* that left around glitter trails...

almost akin to walkins or dolls .. future adaptations perhaps?

funbox

Yes it can be weird at times when coincidences seem to occur... Some things that I was researching may even suggest there is more to it than we imagine in the mysteries of the Universe and how it plays out .

I was not one for watching some of the older Sci Fi movies.. and probably a more later comer and watched less of the even more modern Sci Fi movies than most on the forum.

I had not thought about some of the "X Files" maybe being based on some past similar Sci Fi Movies...but  maybe for most things we see relate to many a similar past topic from other movies or TV series.

If one had watched enough of them...and managed to observe and take things in... then I suppose one starts to see the various connections...as well as the more we study the type of things on PRC helps make more sense in trying to understand many of the things in the likes of the "X-Files" series.

I am still trying to piece some things together in some of the recent episodes that I have watched in the past few weeks..

Episode 5, Part 1... that I watched last week seemed to relate to a lot  of things that start to connect the main agenda of the Alien side to the story...

I think id need to try to be able to watch certain episodes a few times to try to take things in better.. as its hard to keep up all the way thru each episode and absorb and try to understand it...or how things connect together..

I think maybe trying to do so could be worth doing..

Some persons /researchers that I have followed recently have brought up certain things that seem similar to what I am now starting to understand more from watching the X Files series..

Are these people using things or suggestions from the "X Files" to make out they have some new material... or was the "X-Files" maybe based on some of the things that they are suggesting !...

That I am trying to determine !

some of the things be suggested are being made to appear as a major concern...in which we have little time to do whats needed to avoid some serious issues..and people are dying for it !

Quotedon't worry Astro  :D, I'm not Omni present , co incidences follow me about like a bad smell, im used to them now but , well.. sometimes,  others :D

yes , maybe you should have continued, mega cheesy , but you may see that the x-files and its concepts are rinse repeats.. take the shapeshifting bounty hunter for instance ... turns out, in that film, his ideological predecessor was a one eyed Cyclops snot ball *trueform* that left around glitter trails...

almost akin to walkins or dolls .. future adaptations perhaps?

Quote from: astr0144 on August 02, 2016, 12:32:01 AM
I was not one for watching some of the older Sci Fi movies.. and probably a more later comer and watched less of the even more modern Sci Fi movies than most on the forum.

if you don't like cheese , ide skip it , most of them are centred around hostile alien forces , that nearly always get deafeated , by some cheesy yet ingenious happenchance human intervention. Hope , where in reality, Ide see as, them not even having to land a craft, to wipe the earth clean of us

QuoteEpisode 5, Part 1... that I watched last week seemed to relate to a lot  of things that start to connect the main agenda of the Alien side to the story...

which season is that Astro ?

QuoteAre these people using things or suggestions from the "X Files" to make out they have some new material... or was the "X-Files" maybe based on some of the things that they are suggesting !...

and creating a never ending smokescreen for plausible denial for all and sundry to use, ergo taking weight from any sparkling's of truth that may have stemmed from roswell/area51/ or any of the true life story's regarding this planets subvergence by external earth forces

Quotesome of the things be suggested are being made to appear as a major concern...in which we have little time to do whats needed to avoid some serious issues..and people are dying for it !

what like , a cheesy Alien Attack on humanity , sealing the cosmopolitan ideology ?, the good aliens intervene and lead us all hand in hand into the galactic federation ? :D

hmmm

funbox

Sorry I should have said it was "Season 5" ...

NOT "Episode 5"...

that was the 98th and 99th overall episodes of the whole series...

Maybe 2 of the best episodes that I think explains / connects a lot of details and facts so far...

it was parts  titled "REDUX".. parts 1 and 2...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_X-Files_(season_5)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redux_(The_X-Files)

Part 1
Scully helps Mulder fake his death, but comes under intense scrutiny; Skinner is suspected as the traitor inside the FBI; and Mulder breaks into the Department of Defense in a desperate bid to save Scully, but while doing so he finds himself facing the truth about the aliens he has been chasing.

Part 2
While Scully lies on her deathbed; Cigarette Smoking Man makes an important decision in helping Mulder. But even as events come to a climax, Mulder finds his belief in his crusade has all but collapsed.


Then this was last nights episode 100....

"Unusual Suspects"

How Mulder came to meet the "Lone Gunmen".... :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unusual_Suspects

Quotewhich season is that Astro ?

Will try to offer some other points later if I don't reply back in the next 30 mins or so..

Some egs, in what I have seen in the X Files series so far..do touch on some topics that have been discussed on PRC and other similar forums..

and I think the more one trys to consider what may or may not be likely / or possible can be very challenging in trying to determine what maybe truth...as some of what is seen as the smoke screen suggestions are complex and hard to believe in many cases...

be it all  a huge UFO conspiracy that may have been designed (By Man) to make other believe E.Ts / UFOs are for real...to say even to try to Hoax other Nations...by the likes of the CIA..

JUST HOW Far do they take it ???

OR if it is for real.. HOW far do they try to cover it all up ???

Quoteand creating a never ending smokescreen for plausible denial for all and sundry to use, ergo taking weight from any sparkling's of truth that may have stemmed from roswell/area51/ or any of the true life story's regarding this planets subvergence by external earth forces

I cannot be certain exactly in what they maybe suggesting...or all the finer details without writing a book on it...

I may  need a private area to write in more detail about it as there has been some disturbing various suggestions made by those involved that its become a bit of a major concern..

But some egs that have been suggested do relate to some of the things from the "X-Files"....

Such as Existing type Alien Viruses all ready here on Earth...Black Goo... UK Underground Bases with ET / Human Hybrids..

Mind control to the masses...in various forms..on a large scale..where any of us can be targeted..

Talk about the Govt trying to bring in Transhumanism..  Cyborgs...Clowns of both Soldier and various Humans...

Various things of which some of this has been shown in the "X Files" series..

The main man who's connected it together believes or suggests that we have about 30 years...so the next generation maybe Cybergs....

and we do know how quick technology has changed in the last 30 years..

We do not really know just how far advanced and prepared they may already be..

Next they have gone even further into the paranormal and Black Magic...

Suggestions that E.Ts are coming from  Parallel universes..

Quotewhat like , a cheesy Alien Attack on humanity , sealing the cosmopolitan ideology ?, the good aliens intervene and lead us all hand in hand into the galactic federation ? :D

hmmm

Quote from: astr0144 on August 02, 2016, 02:39:03 AM
Some egs, in what I have seen in the X Files series so far..do touch on some topics that have been discussed on PRC and other similar forums..

and I think the more one trys to consider what may or may not be likely / or possible can be very challenging in trying to determine what maybe truth...as some of what is seen as the smoke screen suggestions are complex and hard to believe in many cases...

be it all  a huge UFO conspiracy that may have been designed (By Man) to make other believe E.Ts / UFOs are for real...to say even to try to Hoax other Nations...by the likes of the CIA..

JUST HOW Far do they take it ???

OR if it is for real.. HOW far do they try to cover it all up ???

Hope to continue next point in a few minutes..

ide have thought the Russians were working hand in hand with those behind the American curtain, given that they where superpowerhash2. as for the mirage men, just another case of smoke and shadows  for the children and grandchildren of those who were alive when it happened.. how many reasons are we going to get after that initial spark ?

funbox

QuoteAlso as some researchers have recently been murder involved in it... I may  need a private area to write in more detail about it as there has been some disturbing various suggestions made by those involved that its become a bit of a concern..

Dam Astro , could you sound anymore like Winston smith in 1984 ? just put a sledge hammer through the telescreen and write away, no holds barred :D

QuoteTalk about the Govt trying to bring in Transhumanism..  Cyborgs...Clowns of both Soldier and various Humans...

Various things of which some of this has been shown in the "X Files" series..

talking about debasement of the human form .. did the Xfiles cover the ancient alien aspect of the whole et phenomena ? I don't remember anything like that.

funbox

Getting a bit carried away Funbox !

Maybe we should remove some of those last comments for now !

QuoteDam Astro , could you sound anymore like Winston smith in 1984 ? just put a sledge hammer through the telescreen and write away, no holds barred :D
 

Some of the Ancient Alien stuff does get mentioned in some of the things occasionally mentioned from Mulder..or maybe some of the Elders..

There is certainly Human / E.T Hybrids and Clowns shown in the series..

Quotetalking about debasement of the human form .. did the Xfiles cover the ancient alien aspect of the whole et phenomena ? I don't remember anything like that.

Quote from: astr0144 on August 02, 2016, 03:36:05 AM
Getting a bit carried away Funbox !

Maybe we should remove some of those last comments for now !

ahh ok , I know TV's can be expensive, how about a stern letter to Theresa May ?

something along the lines of

my Darling Theresa
I was so glad to hear that your facial tics have cleared up , but sorry to hear you have lost your cocaine dealer, if the tics return I know a funbox that can set some people into your direction,
plainly speaking though, Theresa,.. and me being an Astro-psychologist *hehehe excuse the pun*

I can strongly advice that the best cure for facial tics is confronting your inner demons, understandably your life is threatened by forces you could never, ever mention, but you must face through that poop and stop relying on cocaine to make you a plausible public speaker..

remember Theresa .. the camera see's all ;)

your loving Surf

Astro

.. if that doesn't get you killed nothing will :D

QuoteSome of the Ancient Alien stuff does get mentioned in some of the things occasionally mentioned from Mulder..or maybe some of the Elders..

There is certainly Human / E.T Hybrids and Clowns shown in the series..

you jogged my memory ,Anasazi.. think I may rewatch

funbox

Funbox sending love letters.  How sweet.  :-*

Not sure about your taste in women mate. :P

Quote from: Pimander on August 02, 2016, 11:07:34 PM
Funbox sending love letters.  How sweet.  :-*

Not sure about your taste in women mate. :P

whaaaa.. you don't remember her in her prime ?.. such a delectable madam, but then you could tell she was going to be a stunner, right from the time she was showing leg as a teenager :D

(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/nintchdbpict000252339706.jpg?w=960)

funbox

Quotewhat like , a cheesy Alien Attack on humanity , sealing the cosmopolitan ideology ?, the good aliens intervene and lead us all hand in hand into the galactic federation ? :D

First #1. Humans shoot at alien new arrivals before any questions can be asked. ::)

really though it is all in the goo, the black goo I have found the answer to all. :P

I'd like to know where the Priest's hand is in that picture.  :o

Quote from: Pimander on August 03, 2016, 06:22:28 PM
I'd like to know where the Priest's hand is in that picture.  :o

You can see it holding the little girls hand  ;)

Quote from: Dyna on August 03, 2016, 06:28:55 PM
You can see it holding the little girls hand  ;)

Smart girl.  Hold tight sister.  8)

Quote from: Dyna on August 03, 2016, 06:12:53 PM
First #1. Humans shoot at alien new arrivals before any questions can be asked. ::)

if they were clever they would know that before landing., says a lot about their moral s/ motivation :D

Quotereally though it is all in the goo, the black goo I have found the answer to all. :P

are you referring the stuff from not long back?

*funbox's eyes roll back and black*

funbox

Quote from: Pimander link=topic=7001.msg1'26005#msg126005 date=1470244948
I'd like to know where the Priest's hand is in that picture.  :o

ide say its gently reassuring her of a life time of puppetry to come

there there, Theresa, its all for the greater good  :D

funbox

Quote from: funbox on August 03, 2016, 08:48:49 PM
are you referring the stuff from not long back?

*funbox's eyes roll back and black*

funbox

Yup I am sure there is some black goo in this recipe somewhere! :-\

Quote from: Dyna on August 03, 2016, 08:53:22 PM
Yup I am sure there is some black goo in this recipe somewhere! :-\

well im sure a mutagenic extremophile could cause havoc to a species ,albeit it fared poorly in the x-files

strangely enough ive just watched the concluding episode of Anasazi , which according to Albert , means ancient aliens in Navaho

I wonder if that's true or bul...

funbox

Quote from: funbox on August 03, 2016, 09:13:31 PM
well im sure a mutagenic extremophile could cause havoc to a species ,albeit it fared poorly in the x-files

strangely enough ive just watched the concluding episode of Anasazi , which according to Albert , means ancient aliens in Navaho

I wonder if that's true or bul...

funbox

Interesting!
well

QuoteFor a long time, it was romantically — and incorrectly — thought to mean "Old Ones." It actually means "Enemy Ancestors," a term full of political innuendo and slippery history.

In Navajo, 'Ana'í means alien, enemy, foreigner, and non-Navajo. 'Anaa' means war. Sází translates to something or someone that was once whole and is now scattered, a word used to describe the final point of corporeal decay, as a body turns to bones and is strewn by scavengers and erosion.

https://www.hcn.org/issues/307/15815
So the Navajo does mean that I guess.

QuoteIn contemporary times, the people and their archaeological culture were referred to as Anasazi for historical purposes. The Navajo, who were not their descendants, called them by this term. Reflecting historic traditions, the term was used to mean "ancient enemies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_Puebloans

QuoteThere never was an "Anasazi tribe", nor did anyone ever call themselves by that name. Anasazi is originally a Navajo word that archaeologists applied to people who farmed the Four Corners before 1300 AD.

http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/fo/ahc/who_were_the_anasazi.html
I have been to Cliff Palace, Mesa Verde National Park which was wonderful!

Quote from: Dyna on August 03, 2016, 10:20:41 PM
Interesting!
wellhttps://www.hcn.org/issues/307/15815
So the Navajo does mean that I guess.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_Puebloans
http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/fo/ahc/who_were_the_anasazi.html
I have been to Cliff Palace, Mesa Verde National Park which was wonderful!

the X files playing with the smoke in the smallest details, how meticulous that show was :D

right wrong, in both worlds. heightened emphasis on the grey area certainly makes for exceedingly good cakes :D

shame no one can taste them
but then what would the truth taste like .. hypothetically speaking ? :D

funbox

Quote from: funbox on August 04, 2016, 12:55:06 AM
the X files playing with the smoke in the smallest details, how meticulous that show was :D

right wrong, in both worlds. heightened emphasis on the grey area certainly makes for exceedingly good cakes :D

shame no one can taste them
but then what would the truth taste like .. hypothetically speaking ? :D

funbox

Watermelon? Before GMO?

Quote from: Dyna on August 04, 2016, 05:10:36 AM
Watermelon? Before GMO?

ide go with that, I miss those crunchy seeds :D

funbox

If you sent that letter on to Theresa May on my behalf  ..Funbox ....My life time maybe cut short !   ???

I dont really know too much about her and had not looked into finding more out about her since Brexit and  David Cameron's resignation.

Maybe you know more about her  background and any corrupt side to her..that may relate to the other post that you made with the photograph.

I assume she was the one on the left and it was not a picture of her when she was young..

This article cropped up on a website that I visited earlier...that maybe along what you were suggesting..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8201521/Sex-offenders-including-paedophiles-should-be-allowed-to-adopt-Theresa-May-told.html

What the Vampires do to live longer !..

That's their secret ...

It would be hard to believe that any of them would actually suggest such a thing to the public or in the media...so How come they don't get arrested if they have ?

I recently found out two more celebrities being suggested to be also involved in Pedaphilia...that may be brought out to the public....It was suggested from someone I was following who was recently murdered..

The elite's use young children's blood to live longer and so do I says Paypal Billionaire.

http://breakingdownthnews.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/the-elites-use-young-childrens-blood-to.html#.V6S-e8EEjWY.facebook

Quoteahh ok , I know TV's can be expensive, how about a stern letter to Theresa May ? 

Interesting Dyna,

I would also like to see the Cliff Palace...at Messa Verde.... and also a similar place at Canyon De Chelley...that I recall from a Western  movie called "Mckenna's Gold".

Did you actually get to walk around Cliff Palace ?

(http://www.gatewayreservations.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/mesa-verde-cliff-palace-l.jpg)

QuoteFor a long time, it was romantically — and incorrectly — thought to mean "Old Ones." It actually means "Enemy Ancestors," a term full of political innuendo and slippery history.

In Navajo, 'Ana'í means alien, enemy, foreigner, and non-Navajo. 'Anaa' means war. Sází translates to something or someone that was once whole and is now scattered, a word used to describe the final point of corporeal decay, as a body turns to bones and is strewn by scavengers and erosion.
https://www.hcn.org/issues/307/15815
So the Navajo does mean that I guess.
Quote
In contemporary times, the people and their archaeological culture were referred to as Anasazi for historical purposes. The Navajo, who were not their descendants, called them by this term. Reflecting historic traditions, the term was used to mean "ancient enemies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_Puebloans

Quote
There never was an "Anasazi tribe", nor did anyone ever call themselves by that name. Anasazi is originally a Navajo word that archaeologists applied to people who farmed the Four Corners before 1300 AD.
http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/fo/ahc/who_were_the_anasazi.html
I have been to Cliff Palace, Mesa Verde National Park which was wonderful!

Quote from: astr0144 on August 07, 2016, 02:59:07 AM
If you sent that letter on to Theresa May on my behalf  ..Funbox ....My life time maybe cut short !   ???

I didn't Astro, hopefully she'll get wind of it in Time .. like a bottle in the ocean , unless you wish to speed things up and send her a copy :D

QuoteMaybe you know more about her  background and any corrupt side to her..that may relate to the other post that you made with the photograph.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1524903/theresa-mays-former-home-office-drug-guru-did-crack-and-smack-while-working-for-her/

strange company she keeps :D

QuoteI assume she was the one on the left and it was not a picture of her when she was young..

I think she the one on the far right Astro :D in the middle is the puppet

QuoteThis article cropped up on a website that I visited earlier...that maybe along what you were suggesting..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8201521/Sex-offenders-including-paedophiles-should-be-allowed-to-adopt-Theresa-May-told.html

What the Vampires do to live longer !..

That's their secret ...

It would be hard to believe that any of them would actually suggest such a thing to the public or in the media...so How come they don't get arrested if they have ?

I recently found out two more celebrities being suggested to be also involved in Pedaphilia...that may be brought out to the public....It was suggested from someone I was following who was recently murdered..

The elite's use young children's blood to live longer and so do I says Paypal Billionaire.

http://breakingdownthnews.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/the-elites-use-young-childrens-blood-to.html#.V6S-e8EEjWY.facebook

Psychopathy seems to be the the norm in politics, maybe they've got a money pool, and are avidly trying to beat Crowleys record..

funbox

Quote from: astr0144 on August 07, 2016, 02:59:07 AM
I assume she was the one on the left and it was not a picture of her when she was young..

It's a photo from when she was 8 years old, with her mother and father, as you can see here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2196901/I-read-Hansard-bedclothes-You-read-Jackie-interested-politics-Theresa-May-MP-Maggie.html).

We will have to see how long that the bottle takes to float around the ocean currents to arrive for her attention  :)

Just as I posted... ArMaP has found details behind the photo that was posted..and it seems it was of Teresa  May when she was young with her Parents.

QuoteI didn't Astro, hopefully she'll get wind of it in Time .. like a bottle in the ocean , unless you wish to speed things up and send her a copy :D

Quote from: ArMaP on August 07, 2016, 05:56:26 PM
It's a photo from when she was 8 years old, with her mother and father, as you can see here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2196901/I-read-Hansard-bedclothes-You-read-Jackie-interested-politics-Theresa-May-MP-Maggie.html).

hands off ArMaP , she's Astro's , do you think I waste my time scribing for Astro , just for you to swoop in for the kill .. shoo :D

funbox

Quote from: funbox on August 07, 2016, 06:05:15 PM
hands of ArMaP , she's Astro's , do you think I waste my time scribing for Astro , just for you to swoop in for the kill .. shoo :D

Sorry, I'm addicted to truth. ;D

Quote from: ArMaP on August 07, 2016, 06:12:42 PM
Sorry, I'm addicted to truth. ;D

what has your addiction got to do with moving in, on Astro's Chick ? :D

funbox

Quote from: funbox on August 07, 2016, 06:20:38 PM
what has your addiction got to do with moving in, on Astro's Chick ? :D

I saw someone was wrong on the Internet, so I had to act, regardless of everything else. :)

He can have her. :)

Quote from: ArMaP on August 07, 2016, 06:26:27 PM
I saw someone was wrong on the Internet, so I had to act, regardless of everything else. :)

He can have her. :)

who and when ? I think your intervention was a false alarm , there's only tom foolery here at the moment :D

funbox

Quote from: funbox on August 07, 2016, 06:29:56 PM
who and when ? I think your intervention was a false alarm , there's only tom foolery here at the moment :D

It was that Tom Foolery that was wrong. ;D

Quote from: ArMaP on August 07, 2016, 07:29:44 PM
It was that Tom Foolery that was wrong. ;D

prey tell, what was wrong with it .. what did you feel needed correcting ?

funbox

She wasn't the one on the right, right? And she wasn't the one on the left either.

Quote from: ArMaP on August 08, 2016, 12:31:28 AM
She wasn't the one on the right, right? And she wasn't the one on the left either.

wrong again ArMaP.. your correction was regarding her Age in the photo.. hmm,.. I wonder where your going with that ?

funbox

Quote from: funbox on August 08, 2016, 11:47:02 AM
wrong again ArMaP.. your correction was regarding her Age in the photo.. hmm,.. I wonder where your going with that ?

I know what I wrote and why I wrote it, you do not.

Quote from: ArMaP on August 08, 2016, 12:44:02 PM
I know what I wrote and why I wrote it, you do not.

according to you it was because "someone" no names mentioned "was wrong"

but I doubt your going to give any detail or further reflection :D

funbox

Quote from: Pimander on September 30, 2014, 02:31:55 PM
Just a quick not.  A lot of the Foo Fighters reports I have read did not describe mechanical devices.

New comprehensive research reverses that opinion Pim -

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=10035.msg132999#msg132999 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=10035.msg132999#msg132999)

Flying Saucers with small drones/fireballs accompanying them seen during most of the war, and in 1947.

48 and 49 were almost exclusively green fireballs and caused quite a stir.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=757.msg6552#msg6552 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=757.msg6552#msg6552)