QuoteKIEV, July 17 (Reuters) - A Malaysian passenger airliner with 295 people on board crashed in Ukraine near the Russian border on Thursday, the Interfax news agency cited an aviation industry source as saying.
The Boeing plane was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, it said. Reuters could not immediately confirm the report.
The Interfax report said the plane came down 50 km (20 miles) short of entering Russian airspace. It "began to drop, afterwards it was found burning on the ground on Ukrainian territory," the unnamed source said.
The plane appeared to have come down in a region of military action where Ukrainian government forces are battling pro-Russian separatists.
A separate unnamed source in the Ukrainian security apparatus, quoted by Interfax, said the plane disappeared from radar at a height of 10,000 metres after which it came down near the town of Shakhtyorsk.
it appears it was shot down...
Quote•280 passengers, 15 crew died on plane, says Ukrainian Interior Ministry adviser quoted by Interfax.
•Malaysian plane was brought down by a Buk ground-to-air missile - Interior Ministry adviser, quoted by Interfax
jeez...
seeker
You just beat me to it!
This is crazy!!
LSWONE.
This was flight number MH17
Bizzare...
http://news.msn.com/world/malaysian-passenger-plane-crashes-in-ukraine-near-russian-border-ifax
QuoteGRABOVO, Ukraine, July 17 (Reuters) - A Malaysian airliner was shot down over eastern Ukraine by pro-Russian militants on Thursday, killing all 295 people aboard, a Ukrainian interior ministry official said.
Raising the stakes in the East-West showdown between Kiev and Moscow, the official blamed "terrorists" using a ground-to-air missile and Ukraine's prime minister called the downing of the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur a "catastrophe".
A Reuters correspondent saw burning wreckage and bodies on the ground at the village of Grabovo, about 40 km (25 miles) from the Russian border in an area where pro-Russian rebels have been active and have claimed to have shot down other aircraft.
The Boeing 777 came down near the city of Donetsk, stronghold of pro-Russian rebels, interior ministry official Anton Gerashchenko said on Facebook, adding it was "shot down with a Buk anti-aircraft system by terrorists" - the term the Kiev government uses for militants seeking to unite eastern Ukraine with Russia. The dead were 280 passengers and 15 crew.
does strike me as bizarre that it was a Malaysian air flight...
seeker
80 children on board.
Ukrainian seperatist leader (Strelkov) is claiming the kill. He says it was a warplane, though it is quite clear is was a commercial passenger plane. Idiot.
Air France, Virgin and and Lufthansa have announce they are avoiding Ukrainian airspace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl1MLxBcD34
edit by seeker: vid has been disabled-will have to watch it on you-tube-
Disturbing doesn't really even describe it.
Shasta
Yeah, if I had plans to board Malaysian Airlines...I'd be thinking twice. One plane disappears, another is shot down? Hmmmm.
I would divest from any Malasian Air stock, that's for sure. Ohh... or sell short. You'ld make money hand over fist as the stock plunges.
???
I wonder if it's possible to find out if anyone(s) have sold short right before this. Truely blood money. Let me hunt around.
Nope. Short positions have been low activity lately.
http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Summary?s=MAS:KLS
Stocks fallen 26% though.
Wartoad, tis probably not a set up on this one for Malaysia airlines, just a coincidence :o
but what are the odds that the one airline of late to totally lose a modern jumbo jet into thin air would have a sister ship shot out of the sky by some hot-headed revolutionary[total dumbass] in a civil war far removed from it's home turf?
strange times we are seeing...
seeker
http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia-rebel/#:eyJzIjoiZiIsImkiOiJfNTdsb2VwamxzcDBlOHVqdiJ9
KIEV, Ukraine — As news broke of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 being downed in eastern Ukraine, the separatist's shadowy commander with a pencil mustache issued a dark warning on social media.
Through his VK.com account, Russia's version of Facebook, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People's Republic, Igor Girkin — who goes by the nom de guerre Igor Strelkov — boasted about shooting down a plane.
"We did warn you — do not fly in our sky," he wrote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn8h0ensUeY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn8h0ensUeY&feature=player_embedded&list=PLSKUhDnoJjYm1k2YZaSlA3ku7DKSIm3f5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VnuHxAR01Jo
Sickening. Killing for the sake of killing, just to prove a pointless point. Scumbag needs some instant karma least he does it again.
QuoteThrough his VK.com account, Russia's version of Facebook, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People's Republic, Igor Girkin — who goes by the nom de guerre Igor Strelkov — boasted about shooting down a plane.
Interesting...I wonder why if they were claiming responsibility they would do this:
Black box from downed Malaysian Airlines jet is sent to MOSCOW by pro-Russian separatists amid fears of a cover-up QuotePro-Russian separatists claimed to have found the 'black box' - which records vital flight information - of the downed passenger airliner MH17.
According to Russian news agency Interfax, First Deputy Prime Minister Andriy Purgin of the breakaway Donestsk Republic said the box will be transferred to Moscow for examination.
'Of course, we most likely will give them to the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC), to Moscow. They are highly qualified experts who will be able to accurately determine the cause of the disaster, even though it is so clear,' he said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696631/Pro-Russian-separatists-thought-shot-MH17-claim-flights-black-box-say-sent-Moscow.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696631/Pro-Russian-separatists-thought-shot-MH17-claim-flights-black-box-say-sent-Moscow.html)
And then there's this:
Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?Quote.
While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.
Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths.png)
Quote
Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/restricted%20air%20space.png)
QuoteSo perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMgIpC-bCfQ
So in essence it had to have been surface to air missile or air to air missile. If the plane was flying at 33,000 ft. The next question is if the "separatists" had access to a launcher with this capability...WHERE WOULD THEY HAVE GOTTEN THE LAUNCH CODES TO USE IT? I can't see it being a simple fire button.
There's such a shell and pea game going on, misinformation, outright deception...
Quote from: WarToad on July 18, 2014, 06:48:42 PM
There's such a shell and pea game going on, misinformation, outright deception...
You're right Wartoad. No matter what the mystery some government or someone is going use a tragedy for their advantage. The innocent people are the one's that almost always pay the price. They are what power hungry dictators or lousy politicians call collateral damage in the great scheme of things. I just do not have the words to put out their the disgust I have for people who do that. Some people blame the Russians, some blame Ukrainians, some blame the separatists. I blame all the powers that manipulated and influenced the Ukraine and sold them weapons and the major powers are guilty of this. It is always this way it seems and has been since beginning of time. It is also the evil side of human nature that is being fed or led in an evil direction for whatever reason. I better back off this before I start going off on a rant.
Sorry for going off on a tangent on this thread but this infuriates me to no end and frustrates me that we can't fix it.
So WHAT is this World really for or is about ?
WHAT is going on and WHY ?
IF we ask the Right Questions we get the Right Answers.
If we ask the wrong questions we get the Wrong answers.
So WHAT are the Questions we should be asking as it is obvious we have been asking
the Wrong Questions for the last few thousand years it would appear. :(
Now the strange stories, distractions and whatever else starts:
http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-plane-crash-182256709.html
A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.
The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.
The Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 was shot down Thursday, killing all 298 people aboard. The plane was flying 10,000 meters above an area where Ukrainian forces have been fighting separatist rebels. Each side accuses the other of downing the plane.
U.S. intelligence authorities said a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, and U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told the U.N. Security Council in New York on Friday that the missile was likely fired from a rebel-held area near the Russian border.
Girkin, also known as Strelkov and allegedly a former Russian military intelligence agent, said he couldn't confirm the information. But it's sure to add to the intense emotions surrounding the crash, with the rebels accused of shooting down the plane.
Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."
He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.
Yes i am saddened by the images.
Jeez, it will take me days to sift the info coming in, but; Get to the truth, we will.
Maverick, you have posed some important questions that need to be answered, right now i will wait until all evidence is in, but based on events in the last 48 hours i am convinced he sent Spetznaz troops in there, & only they could have had the brains to operate such a system.
This looks like a direct stab at Holland, and now they are in trouble, for i live here >:(
For i will never forgive, nor forget, those that took the lives of my freinds.
Be prepared for death & destruction, for the English be angry.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
300 blackwater were sent in at the beginning of this mess.plus ukraine nazis started the fight in the beginning during the protest.the ukraine nazis were funded by zionist out of the usa.these nazis /rebels seized the russian equipment from ukraine army.so either putin wants a war which i doubt or blackwater /retired special forces helped the rebels launch them.neither ukraine or russia would do this imho.their govs have too much class.rebels would wish to draw attention and the usa wants war.
tptb lost their carbon tax so now money from war and police state are the fallback position.a ticket and a fine in every peasants pocket.
just went back to forums and this smells like 911 2.0,
no offence intended toward you or your country pwm but i believe nato is psyoping the netherlands.
I am taking in all info right now. I am working the next 4 days. My background in the army was air defense so I have some input for sure. I am using my phone right now. If you want some close up pics go to liveleak.com under Ukraine. Warning....graphic...taken by rebels...
Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on July 19, 2014, 11:57:30 PM
For i will never forgive, nor forget, those that took the lives of my freinds.
Be prepared for death & destruction, for the English be angry.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
See how easy it is to get other people involved. :(
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/flaw-buk-missile-system-might-214129081.html
Military experts think that a Buk missile — an easy-to-use type of anti-aircraft weapon — is the most likely culprit in the destruction of a Malaysian Airlines passenger jet that's thought to have been shot down over eastern Ukraine.
These missile launchers are specially created for hitting high-altitude aircraft, and can fire at targets of up to 80,000 feet.
But unless linked to other weapons or an air traffic control system, they are almost incapable of telling the difference between military and civilian aircraft. The Buk is mobile, easy to use, and capable of hitting aircraft at all but the most outlandish altitudes. Yet as the MH17 disaster proves, that comes with a huge potential drawback, especially when the weapon is in the hands of people incapable of using it responsibly.
Pro-Russian separatists have apparently admitted that they have Buk missiles. These weapons reach far higher altitudes than the shoulder-fired rocket launchers that pro-Russian separatists have been using to destroy Ukrainian aircraft during the past week, high enough that they could reach the over 30,000-feet altitude at which the airliner was flying.
The missiles are straightforward to operate and work as stand-alone weapons — they can function outside of a sophisticated networked air defense system.
While that's useful in some respects it also makes it unnervingly easy to make a mistake, particularly for guerrilla or non-conventional fighters who are capable of firing the easy-to-use missiles, but don't have the training needed to distinguish between civilian and military aircraft by sight.
As one expert explained to Technology Review, the Buk's ease of usability is also what makes the weapon so prone to tragic and costly errors like the MH17 crash.
The system cannot tell the difference between civilian and military-type aircraft based on their transponder signatures alone. In order to tell the difference between targets, it would need to be interfaced with other weapons systems that can work off of additional information.
Being a Soviet design, the user interface is fairly simple, says Michael Pietrucha, a former F-4G and F-15E electronic warfare officer and expert on air defenses. Pietrucha says he trained with German forces operating a similar Russian-built system during the 1990s.
Pietrucha says that the Buk variant operated by the rebels might have been especially unable to distinguish between civilian and military air traffic because of a quirk related to aircraft transponders. The transponder is a device that broadcasts an aircraft's identity when a radar "interrogates" it for information.
Military and civilian aircraft often use the same transponder modes and therefore that signal is not used as a "discriminator" for a military targeting system, Pietrucha says. The system has to be tied into the national air traffic control system to use that information effectively.
So the Buk can pick up the signal of an aircraft. But if it's operating in standalone mode, it can't tell whether that aircraft is a military target, or a jetliner with nearly 300 people onboard.
As Thomas Gibbons-Neff reported in the Washington Post, the Buk can be interfaced with other systems, but U.S. intelligence sources believe the Buk was the only one anti-aircraft system operating in the area of the crash at the time the plane was shot down.
The transponder explanation seems likeliest here: Whatever unit shot down MH17 simply couldn't see if it was a civilian or military aircraft — they could just see it was an aircraft in their airspace — because it wasn't hooked up to a system that would have made such recognition possible.
On some models of the weapon, radar systems are rudimentary at best. With untrained irregular soldiers at the helm, even a linked system could have made a terrible mistake. To the right is a GIF of a Buk M2 surface-to-air system in action. The radar and firing interface are relatively simple and user-friendly.
"This definitely could have been an error," Steve Zaloga, an expert on missile systems at the Teal Group, told Technology Review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDXScnEKaP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDXScnEKaP0&feature=player_detailpage
To down an aircraft you do not have to directly hit it. There is such a thing as a proximity fuse. All you have to do is interrupt the air flow by a close proximity explosion which will throw the aircraft out of control and the g-forces will tear the plane apart. #2, You can take an aircraft out of the air if the missile puts enough shrapnel into the aircraft which promotes it breaking up in flight due to the physical forces. #3, there is a missile that has a bar come out of the warhead that literally can cut an aircraft into. #4 Heat seeker - this missile lock onto the heat signature of the aircraft (engine or engines) and homes in on that and can be set for contact or proximity fusing.
The high altitude missiles are usually controlled by radar and a professional soldier will rely on some sort of aircraft recognition be it an electronic signature from a transponder indicating friend or foe (or unknown). These missile units usually have a mobile command and control with a higher headquarters giving the go-no go order. The missiles are controlled by radar. In this case it is not proven which BUC system was used. The more advanced the system, the more advanced the radar along with other means of proper identification. You don't want to shoot down your own aircraft.
My opinion is that the rebels screwed up and jumped the gun and that the shoot down may have come from the hair trigger finger of a rebel leader in charge of the missile launcher. I could be wrong but that is what it seems to me. As a matter of experience from me, I spent 8 years as a air defense crewman, air defense squad leader and platoon sergeant during the seventies. Basically the tactics have not changed greatly, only the weapons systems. In this case theories will abound and muddy the waters
For low level the aircraft recognition will fall to the unit leader or squad leader making visual confirmation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgQ83irr0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgQ83irr0o&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-18/did-a-missile-down-the-malaysian-jet-over-ukraine/5606156
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7c6OWcBA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7c6OWcBA4
Rebel Commander is Russian agent?
Quote from: robomont on July 20, 2014, 12:39:59 AM
just went back to forums and this smells like 911 2.0,
no offence intended toward you or your country pwm but i believe nato is psyoping the netherlands.
None taken Robo, i was just pssd when i saw this, i have been offline until yesterday. I am calm now & will look at the info.
The whole annexation of the Ukraine is a big deal for Ivan, they don't want Ukraine getting too freindly with Europe.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not supporting one side or another, they are both treacherous bar stewards who would sell their own kids for a quick profit.
Are they being used? Definitely.
The time stamp on the video is a dead giveaway.
As far as i know none of my family or freinds were on that plane, but it was close, too damn close :( We marched into Nijmegen on friday in silence, it was surreal to say the least......
Oil hit 108 bucks a barrel on Friday as well, when it tops 110 you always get a war.
As usual, follow the money.
ETA; There are a lot of millionaires over here, they like their caviar. the netherlands already had strained relations with ivan because of some diplomats & their drivers beating up reporters etc and a russian guy got snuffed in Amsterdam (possibly russian maffia) so we sent Putin some tulips to sweeten him up :o
I would tell them to stuff their gas pipeline & build a nuclear reactor on their border :P
So, someone gave Igor the Trigger Happy a high tech missile capable of bringing down that plane.
Europe's civil air authority give conflicting advice ranging from 'perfectly safe' to 'no-fly zone'. Normally at 35,000 feet you would be perfectly safe from someone with a SAM missile etc so i guess that is where the confusion came from.
But that flight was too low & too far north, why?
And despite the MSM picture of Igor proudly displaying that toy, he must have only just realised what he had done (or he's a good actor) because he dropped it on the ground & crossed himself. Of course that part wasn't shown, but kudo's to the dutch media because they showed the whole film of that incident not just that one photo, which seems to be from another angle thus another camera/phone.
This stinks more than a dead herring in a compost heap, my freinds 8)
ETA; No disrespect mr Putin, but i still hate your guts, even before all this, you are dancing to the strings of the puppet masters like Merkel & the rest, trying to instigate a one world system while at the same time trying to get Europe involved in your dirty little war.
A very likely scenario with a high probability that Ukranian fighter jets may have used MH 17 to mask their presence could have taken place. This would be highly plausible.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/report-ukranian-fighter-jets-hid-behind-passenger-plane-pulled-away-dropped-bombs-hid-behind-plane.html
And then again, this could be propaganda. I don't think we will ever know the real truth behind this or MH 370.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btrea87CcAAVqVZ.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ_4pf9hV8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ_4pf9hV8&feature=player_detailpage
What is the real reason MH 17 was shot down? Once again we have a mixture of so called experts and politicians confusing the issue. We don't know what really happened to MH 370 but we do know what happened to MH 17 but don't really know who did this dastardly deed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K07DhLzWM2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K07DhLzWM2I&feature=player_detailpage
Published on Jul 24, 2014
In today's video, Christopher Greene of AMTV reports that Flight MH17 was instructed to divert route before missile strike.
#MH17 Instructed by Air Traffic Controllers to Divert Route before Crash
From: http://www.globalresearch.ca/false-flag-fake-video-of-alleged-pro-russian-militia-claiming-responsibility-for-mh-17-attack-was-made-before-plane-crash/5391985?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=false-flag-fake-video-of-alleged-pro-russian-militia-claiming-responsibility-for-mh-17-attack-was-made-before-plane-crash
QuoteThis could almost be a smoking gun of the false flag attack with respect to MH 17. Some five hours after the loss of MH 17, the Ukrainian Security Service published a recording of alleged pro-Russian military officers led by commander Bes, who is based in Gorlovka (Horlivka), allegedly confirming that they shot down the Malaysian Boeing 777.
The video was uploaded about 5 hours after the time of the plane's crash–20:16 PM local time.
And more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFzM6yE3qqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFzM6yE3qqc
http://www.inquisitr.com/1382967/malaysia-airlines-experiences-close-call-of-third-catastrophe-plane-slams-on-breaks/
Malaysia Airlines Experiences Close Call Of Third Catastrophe, Plane Slams On Brakes
Malaysia Airlines experienced a close call of having a third catastrophe on its hands when one of its plane was forced to put on the brakes immediately on a runway in South Australia. The jet was forced to abort a take-off upon learning that another airliner was about to land on the runway the Malaysian plane was about to cross over.
The Australian explains that Flight MH136 was ordered to abort the take-off, slamming on the brakes to avoid a collision with a Tigerair jet. 167 passengers were aboard the Malaysian plane on Tuesday during the incident.
Flight MH136 was taking off from Adelaide Airport in South Australia heading for Kuala Lumpur. Air traffic control at Adelaide urgently alerted the plane that an incoming jet was about to land on the runway.
According to Malaysia's New Straits Times, an official reveals this:
"MH136 stopped its takeoff safely and waited the required cool-down time on its brakes before departing from Adelaide."
A statement from Malaysia Airlines reads:
"MH136 was ready to depart Adelaide Airport and already on takeoff roll when it was instructed by Adelaide Air Traffic Control to discontinue its take-off as the inbound aircraft discontinued its landing and was infringing the vicinity of the take-off path.
"Upon receiving the instruction, MH136 stopped safely."
An senior official at Air Services Australia insists that there really wasn't a close call. The official says:
"A go-around is a safe and well-practiced maneuver that sees an aircraft discontinue its approach to the runway when landing.
"Additionally, and to ensure the continued safe operations at the airport, air traffic controllers requested an international flight discontinue its takeoff.
"Safety is our priority and at no time was the safety of any passengers or aircraft compromised."
More at the link above...........
I really don't think flying Malaysian Airlines is a safe deal.
I am beginning to think that the airliner was shot down by fighter aircraft and not a missile. I am looking for more photographs but some of the ones I have seen and the stories coming from that part of the world are starting to make me wonder. The holes I see in the fuselage remind me of guns and not missiles. The type of air defense I was involved in during the 70's involved .50 cal and 20mm. I will post some pictures and stories here when I get them together. Proof positive? Not necessarily but highly probable? Yes....
My interpretation of the holes may be in error but they sure look like either .50 cal or 20 mm (more like 20 mm) but here is some information that compares missile and machine gun fire.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-mh17-michael-bociurkiw-talks-about-being-first-at-the-crash-site-1.2721007
One of the first people to arrive at crash site that was not a rebel or government person.
A personal handwritten note penned by a passenger reminding themselves to stay on budget during their vacation. Scientific literature belonging to a passenger en route to a major international AIDS conference in Australia.
Fighting intensifies near MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine
Data recovered from MH17's cockpit voice recorder
These are just a few of the things that Michael Bociurkiw, a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), has seen up close at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.
There is a video included where he states that there appears to be machine gun holes. There are rumors flying that 2 Ukranian SU-25's were shadowing the plane.
Now defense tech says it's missile shrapnel.
http://defensetech.org/2014/07/21/mh17-wreckage-photo-shows-evidence-of-shrapnel/
http://images.defensetech.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/MH17-Shrapnel-490x303.png
(http://images.defensetech.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/MH17-Shrapnel-490x303.png)
The SU-25 Frogfoot only has a service ceiling of around 22,900 feet and the airliner was at 33,000....
http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111
Revelations of German Pilot: Shocking Analysis of the "Shooting Down" of Malaysian MH17. "Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile"
(http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_topelement_47299592d2.jpg)
The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefully exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.
(http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_mh17-einschu__sse_c43fcedbcc.jpg)
So what could have happened? Russia recently published radar recordings, that confirm at least one Ukrainian SU 25 in close proximity to MH 017. This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller 'Carlos' that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it's cockpit segment!
(http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_MH17_Schusse_Tragflaeche_c5b6a474a4.jpg)
Graze on the wing
Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon. This explains a coherent scenario. The largely intact fragments of the rear sections broke in mid air at the weaker points of construction most likely under extreme internal air pressure. The images of the widely scattered field of debris and the brutally damaged segment of cockpit fit like hand in glove. Furthermore, a wing segment shows traces of a grazing shot, which in direct extension leads to the cockpit. Interestingly, I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well known smoking ruins.
These are not my observations but those of the German pilot. I read the entire article at the above link and his idea could be a possible scenario. The only question is the service ceiling on the SU-25.
from what i saw of the engines.forward momentum of plane stopped or slowed to almost nothing.the engines looked like they dropped straight down and ata slight angle.tilted forward.no dirt piled in front of them.so in my opinion.something caused the plane to almost come to a halt.locked up engines and explosive decompression all at once mayby.
On another forum someone posted a link to this page (http://graphics.wsj.com/mh17-crash-map/), with maps and photos of places where they found pieces of the aeroplane.
I find it a little strange the way the debris were scattered, as I was expecting a more or less perfect distribution along the direction of the flight, but I'm far from an expert in this.
Quote from: ArMaP on August 01, 2014, 01:28:34 AM
On another forum someone posted a link to this page (http://graphics.wsj.com/mh17-crash-map/), with maps and photos of places where they found pieces of the aeroplane.
I find it a little strange the way the debris were scattered, as I was expecting a more or less perfect distribution along the direction of the flight, but I'm far from an expert in this.
When a plane is shot down you will find debris in many places if it explodes. G Forces taking their toll on the airframe and everything else has an affect and then an explosion from a missile tends to scatter it even more. The heaviest pieces may fall mostly in one large debris field while the lighter pieces are scattered more.
Yes, I would say no matter what brought it down, it exploded first. Just simple machine gun fire would put it down in one piece with no explosion.
sounds right deuem,
two things on my mind is the way that one panel,pic above had metal on outside concaved in like from shockwave from explosion and the parts of craft are sooo big even though ,yes its a big plane.why did that giant plane seperate?im guessing a missle headed at them with a very large load of explosive.this explosion was able to slow a plane by ripping it into big pieces and peppering with holes.
where ever that panel came from was near the side of the explosion.that panel would show which side of plane the missile came from.
that kind of explosion would vaporize a small fighter jet.
but im no expert ,just thinking out loud.
The SU-25 is a tank killer. The missile if used would have probably used a proximity fuse instead of a contact fuse. I believe if it was a missile it would not be a heat seeker but one guided by radar...ground to air missile. The SU-25's service ceiling was much lower that that of the airliner. I would have to dig to find out what armament would be on the SU-25 to see if it had the capability to fire a radar guided missile at the airliner. A guns approach would be be 7 to 8000 feet higher than the SU-25 service ceiling and the pilot would have to be beyond an expert even getting near the target.
The only reason I would say that is having actual experience with those type of guns when I was in the army.
The missile supposedly used is radar guided and has a proximity fuse, so it can explode some metres from the planes and fill them with shrapnel.
Quote
A goofy, selfie-loving Russian soldier might have supplied the best proof yet of Moscow's direct support of Ukrainian rebels — and potential role in the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.
Alexander Sotkin, 24, has been posting pictures of himself in various combat settings, such as an armored personnel carrier and military encampments.
The Photo Map from Sotkin's Instagram account shows that he has taken photos in Moscow (left), in the Russian border town of Voloshino and near the Ukrainian town of Krasnaya Talovka, which is close to rebel-controlled Dontesk.Photo: Instagram
And within his Instagram shots, Sotkin appears to have activated a locator map that showed how several images were shot and uploaded inside eastern Ukraine earlier this month.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/31/soldiers-selfies-might-prove-russias-role-in-ukraine/
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/31/article-2711722-2026064A00000578-517_306x423.jpg)
(http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/53d9bc4169bedd1030386743-640-1136/photo_map.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711722/The-Russian-soldier-selfie-obsession-prove-Putin-operating-Ukraine-Comms-officer-operates-kit-like-used-MH17-accidentally-reveals-border.html
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Evidence_Is_Now_Conclusive%3A_2_Ukrainian_Government_SU-25_Fighter-Jets_Did_Shoot_Down_that_Malaysian_Airliner._No_%E2%80%9CBuk%E2%80%9D_Missile_Ground-Shot_Was_Involved./37019/0/38/38/Y/M.html (http://www.blacklistednews.com/Evidence_Is_Now_Conclusive%3A_2_Ukrainian_Government_SU-25_Fighter-Jets_Did_Shoot_Down_that_Malaysian_Airliner._No_%E2%80%9CBuk%E2%80%9D_Missile_Ground-Shot_Was_Involved./37019/0/38/38/Y/M.html)canadian story of two ukraine fighter jets and first evidence.
The last plane with odd bits & luggage flew back today, they are stopping the search because of the incessant fighting in that area. The Dutch president said "we are stopping with the search...for now. we are continuing the investigation, together with the Australians & Malaysian goverment".
He also thanked the Ukranian citizens who helped the team.
The dutch cops took over 700 DNA samples, which will take several months to sort, he said.
Kuala Lumpur says they are still missing about 60 peeps, i have no idea how they know that unless they literally did a 'head count', jeez.....
Funny also that Putin bought VKontakte earlier this year, Ivan's version of Farcebook, where his mate Igor has been ranting like the lunatic he is, and all sorts of wierd anti west poop is flying around. Yesterday was a hoot.
So the embargoes begin. Russia will not import any more fruit & veg with the West for 1 year. That's going to probably starve a lot of (already starving) russians, but it won't affect us much.
Millionaires will have to get their caviar elsewhere, oh isn't life a drag.....
Ivan is doing what they often do, mass lots of troops & gear near the border, supposedly 'training' but it is obvious they plan to invade the Ukraine under pretext of helping a 'humanitarian disaster', yep seen that before ::)
Meanwhile, in Washington;
John Kerby, a pentagon spokesman, announced that there were military experts going to Kiev (like the FBI before them) to do some investigating as to how that plane came down, although the answer is pretty obvious by now..
"they will stay there as long as necessary" the Pentagon said.
Also, the Pentagon wants to give 10 million to train the Ukranian national guard (seems a bit bloody late to me) and they first have to get that through Congress.
Amsterdam;
The european flight operators are worried that a no-fly zone over Sibera from Putin will cost them millions in lost revenue, over Siberia is the shortest route to China, Japan & Korea, otherwise they would either have to fly much further south, other routes would have to fly over the north pole... :o
According to the UN's ICAO that is highly unlikely;
"Russia signed the Chigago Treaty on international flight paths, if they close that route, they will not only be committing an illegal act, they will risk becoming the pariah of the rest of the world"
KLM (dutch royal airlines) are worried that they will lose billions in profits to Asian companies, who will not be sanctioned.......
On a personal note, i regard rumours that there were no bodies on that plane as just that, rumours.As to who they are, i think that will be settled fairly soon for some of them, and never for some others.
I walked through a village that has lost 3 entire families, it was surreal & i hope i never have to do that again, but i will, because i walk through that village every year........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b67OGUsQC44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b67OGUsQC44
Who was REALLY responsible for the downing of flight MH-17? Let's take a look at the facts.
From the website of Storm Clouds Gathering.
Very good examination of MH17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4
I watch Corbett Report quite a lot. The video they produced was very well put together. I just finished it. Lot of circumstantial evidence for what was said. Too bad we could not get a closer look at the fuselage. I use to fire and work on 20mm gun pods back in my Army and Air Force days and the holes seen could be holes from either a 20mm or 30 mm gun pod. Hard to tell...like the MH 370 mystery...this one brings up questions that cannot be answered. The fact that the wreckage and bodies were over 15 km in a debris field would mean that it was definitely shot down but by what remains to be proven. We were shown pictures of what happens to aircraft when they are shot down by missile or guns and they leave a trail of debris scatted along a route so to speak. Had it been an on board explosion it would have been more localized on the ground. Just going from what was taught to me in earlier years. Thanks for the find on the video!