Pegasus Research Consortium

Why There's A No-Fly Zone Over Ferguson, Missouri

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/12/3470567/why-theres-a-no-fly-zone-over-ferguson-missouri/

Although it's true that perhaps I was just being negative earlier, unfortunately it appears that reality agrees with me.  For those of you who don't know, the current mess in Ferguson, Missouri is a result of a young unarmed black man who was shot dead by police, after he was apparently already lying on the ground, unarmed, with his hands behind his head.  There have been protests and rioting, with the police using teargas.  There have also been calls from the crowd to, "kill the police."

America's police are starting to genuinely get out of control.  As Thor can relay if he likes, a video from Anonymous has been released on this subject, in which Anon are demanding new federal standards for police conduct, including guidelines on how they will be punished if said standards are violated.  From my perspective, that is clearly something that the country needs.

In related news, the state of Indiana has passed a law (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/state-passes-law-legalize-self-defense-police/) allowing citizens to defend themselves if their homes are wrongfully invaded by police.  Given how dangerous American police are apparently becoming, this is possibly also a justifiable political response.

I know Jesus said turn the other cheek - but those pigs have names and addresses....

Quote from: Sinny on August 13, 2014, 09:18:41 AM
I know Jesus said turn the other cheek - but those pigs have names and addresses....

Carefully, Sinny.  We never know when there might be a friendly neighbourhood member of the NSA sitting in the audience.

Quote from: petrus4 on August 13, 2014, 09:39:29 AM
Carefully, Sinny.  We never know when there might be a friendly neighbourhood member of the NSA sitting in the audience.

I'd be a fool to think I'm not already tracked and monitored - I'd be surprised if the TSA didn't pay me a visit on route to the states aha.
I might as well pledge my face to my freedom of speech.

Interesting way to keep the news chopters out of the line of sight. A new tatic I've never heard of. I wonder if they would shot one down if they went within the area.

If the police man really shot dead a man on the ground with his hands behind his head then it would be considered blue murder. Why would they do that? They have him down? I need more info for a reality check. What else happened and is it 100% as told.

Man, it seems there is a need for some tough love here...thought I was gone, but as a man who cares, I cannot sit by and watch hate and disjointed opinion foul this once great forum.

One trigger happy moron in fear or embarrassment does not an entire profession make.

Saying all cops are guilty, because one cop might be guilty in an outpouring of pre investigation blamery, is like saying all plumbers are pedophiles, because one happened to bend over too far and showed his butt to a kid in the house at the time.

It's a shame no doubt, whatever happened.

The rhetoric of paranoid dark room non-discipline will not soil Pegasus' true member's hearts and minds, no matter how hard one tries to strike hate, fear, and intolerance into their daily lives.

All encompassing statements show an inner failure to address reason and reality, please, wait until the solid facts are out, and the buildings stop burning.

Then discuss what transpired with love and compassion for truth and humanity and a heart for all those involved.

Le

"Those who love peace must learn to organise as effectively as those who love war".


The Evil forces are already in control, there is no room for negotiation.

Dad gumming...can't stay away....

Adepts and masters have been telling us for millennia, Sinny, who is really in control...ourselves....evil cannot exist, if it is not manifested by those who seek to engender duality based mind sets.

Dig within yourself, and see, you have the tools, to make choices and set boundaries, we all need each other to be thoughtful and clearheaded in these times, and the seeming evil will be but a passing phase of theistic invention.

Inherent good awaits outside your door...will you let it in, or fight someone else's battle to keep it at bay, as has been going on since the golden age ceased?

Your heart will thank you. As will the universe..try it and see.

Le

QuoteAmerica's police are starting to genuinely get out of control.

While I agree that some individuals are out of control and perhaps need a nice long vacation or psychotherapy. There has to be more to it. Has something shifted in policy perhaps?

Police Union Commissar: If You Resist, You Should Expect to Die

Quote"We've heard a lot in the last number of weeks about what police officers can't do, and what police officers shouldn't do," groused Patrick Lynch, designated spokesliar for the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, New York's largest police union. "No one's telling us what we are able to do, and what we should do, when we're faced with a situation where the person being placed under arrest says, `I'm not going. I'm not being placed under arrest.'"

"What is it we should do?" continued Lynch, his voice colored by theatrical incredulity. "Walk away?"

If the would-be arrestee isn't involved in an actual crime — that is, an act of aggression against another person — the only morally suitable answer is: Yes. The cop should shut up, go away, and refrain from molesting one of his betters. The experience might encourage him to find honest work.

"We don't have that option," Lynch insisted. "Nor would the public that called and complained about these crimes want us to. If they called, it's important to them."

In this fashion Lynch attempted to shift the blame for the killing of Eric Garner on merchants in the Staten Island neighborhood where the harmless man was killed through an act of criminal homicide by NYPD officers enforcing a demented "zero tolerance" policy regarding the sale of untaxed cigarettes. Lynch, who has spent his entire adult life as a member of the coercive caste, tried to depict Garner — a micro-entrepreneur — as a menace to the public, and a threat to commerce. Lynch appears to believe that the spectacle of police killing a harmless and unarmed man is less damaging to the local economy than allowing that man to sell loose cigarettes to willing customers.

Lynch resurrected the unproven claim that plainclothes officers had seen Garner commit an act of unsanctioned petty commerce, and that he resisted their efforts to abduct him on behalf of the state's tax-consuming class. He carefully avoided mention of the fact that Garner, according to eyewitnesses, had broken up a fight while the officers, ever vigilant for economic "crimes," refused to intervene.

"There is an attitude on our streets today that it is acceptable to resist arrest," lamented Lynch. "That attitude is a direct result of a lack of respect for law enforcement."

While it is the moral duty of every decent person to cultivate disrespect for law enforcement, that attitude is not to blame (if that's the appropriate word) for the growing resistance to officially sanctioned abduction. That inclination is a direct reaction to the impudence, arrogance, and aggressiveness of police officers, their palpable contempt for the public they supposedly serve, their sense of tribal solidarity with officers who commit crimes against innocent people, and the institutional immunity they enjoy.

"The charge of resisting arrest is a very serious and dangerous one," insisted Lynch. "The charge exists to encourage those being arrested to comply with the lawful orders of police officers so that those officers do not have to use necessary force to make that arrest."

In other words: If you submit with proper docility to the commands issued by the slave patrol, they won't have to beat or kill you.

Like most exponents of that view, Lynch assumes that any gust of verbal halitosis that escapes the wet hole at the bottom of a police officer's face is a "lawful order." For this reason he insists that resisting arrest "is a serious crime, and must be treated that way by all."

In fact, resisting unlawful arrest — while considered an actual crime, and prosecuted as such — is an ancient, venerable, and indispensable right of free people. Under the still-valid Supreme Court precedent John Black Elk v. U.S. (1900), a citizen has a legally recognized right to use lethal force to prevent the consummation of an unlawful arrest.

Perhaps, somewhere in the reptilian recesses of what passes for Lynch's mind, there is an awareness of that fact, and a rapidly coalescing fear of the prospect that the public will come to understand it, as well. This may be why he admonished PBA members to use "all the resources of the NYPD" when they are dealing with a member of the productive class who isn't willing to endure the indignity and injury of a state-licensed abduction. In other words: Use any means necessary — including lethal force — to insure that resistance is futile.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/police-union-commissar-if-you-resist-you-should-expect-to-die/ (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/police-union-commissar-if-you-resist-you-should-expect-to-die/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xylJOK3WCOc

Quote from: Littleenki on August 13, 2014, 06:53:28 PM
Saying all cops are guilty, because one cop might be guilty in an outpouring of pre investigation blamery, is like saying all plumbers are pedophiles, because one happened to bend over too far and showed his butt to a kid in the house at the time.

I'm not saying that all cops are guilty at all, Dave.  I am, however, saying that there does seem to be a systemic, institutional problem developing.

The issue is not that all cops are bad.  The issue is that whether good or bad, cops are being issued military ordinance, which is arguably a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, among other things.  The other and more important issue is the fact that, even though good cops do still exist in large numbers, the negative minority are not being adequately punished for their bad behaviour; and as a result of this, we're seeing them growing bolder, and doing worse things.

It may surprise you to know this, but for some time I've been a fan of the comic book character, Judge Dredd.  This is because I recognise the fact that, given the severity of the fictitious scenario that Dredd exists in, a man of his severity is merely proportional to his context.  The other issue is that while Dredd may seem fascist, within his context, he is genuinely honourable.  Although he is empowered to kill criminals, (and given what he tends to be confronted with, that is often unavoidable) if he has the opportunity, he will give them the option of a reduced sentence in exchange for a co-operative arrest.

So, no.  I do not instinctively hate police, and I am not inherently anti-authoritarian, either.  What I want is just authority.

We do not live in an environment like Mega-City One, which means that police are not justified in behaving like the Judges.  Statistically speaking, crime internationally is currently close to its' lowest recorded levels.  The irony is that even if we did have the Judge system, killing an unarmed, co-operative civilian in cold blood is a crime that would be very severely punished.  In other words, despite his apparent severity, Dredd is actually more principled and disciplined than at least some of the real cops that we have right now.

Given this, is it really so hateful and negative, to believe that we need reform?  We need a scenario where politicians are not able to view police forces as, (to quote Michael Bloomberg) "their own personal army."  At the recent gas fracking protest here in Bentley, near Nimbin, we had a squad of police in riot gear present until an actual court judge arrived on the scene, inspected the situation, and then later held a hearing at which said police presence was determined to be unlawful.

I want the police themselves, to respect the law.  I do not want them to have the attitude that said law is only for civilians, and not for themselves.  I also want them to stop viewing the civilian population as the enemy, to the extent that they do.  Most importantly, I want them to stop being used as an illegal and outrageous means of propping up unpopular governments, or preventing the civilian public from obtaining redress from corporate behaviour which directly threatens their livelihoods.

Give me this, and I will have no argument with police.  I have mentioned archangel Michael on these forums before.  The police are supposed to be an extension of his will and character, in physical space.  They are supposed to be his disciples.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Mikharkhangel.jpg)

He is the exemplar of how they are supposed to behave.

If they start behaving like that, then I will love them to the same degree that you yourself do.  My only grievance at the moment, is with the number of them who do not.

 First off,let me start by saying that there is really no love lost with me as far as the boys in blue are concerned. However even I will admit that no,it's not EVERY officer. But you have to also admit that cases like this are becoming alarmingly all-too common. There are a lot of officers out there that  do better at breaking the law,than they do at enforcing it. And in my own personal experience they seem to be egotistical,power-tripping a**holes,to be honest. I have a close family member in law enforcement,but that still does not change my view in general of police.                                                                                                                                                                Seems to me,it is no longer their job to protect and serve the community. Seems more like they are here to harass,intimidate,and subdue the populous. Just imagine how many cases don't make it to mainstream media,how many have had a 9mm in there face,how many have been cuffed and ruffed to just be released and thanking their lucky stars they were'nt booked on some BS charges. I mean come on, a NO FLY  ZONE = WAR ZONE at least in my mind it does. This is just another example of "them",and by "them" I don't just mean law enforcement,I mean your lawmakers proving to the American public that they can do WHATEVER they want.                                                                                                                                    I can't  be the only one that sees all this for what it really is. People are tired,angry and frustrated with law enforcement and law makers. And while I can't understand burning down your own community in anger,I can definitely understand their misplaced frustration. Sadly,I have a feeling we will probably see much more of this in the future.                                                                                                                               

I find it worrying that all over the mainstream TV in the UK the Police can been seen acting illegally in almost every instance, and this is braodcast to the massess as if to say "This is how it is, no if's or butts".

In Soap Opera's we have the Police simply walking up to people and shoving them in cars, with no rights read.
In our reality 'Cop' shows, which follow the police around we can see Police illegally stopping and searching and demanding details like the Nazi's Gestepo ..  all of this is glorified as 'their rights'.

They are trained from 'the off' not to trust us, maybe it's about time we didn't trust them

Protesters are bringing it upon themselves.  Bunch of idiots.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/Shooting-protests-turn-violent-in-St-Louis-suburb-271183131.html

QuoteWednesday saw more tense confrontations and further volleys of tear gas — this time paired with police smoke bombs in response to Molotov cocktails and other objects lobbed from the crowd.

If you're trying to injure or kill a LEO, you're going to get injured or killed.  Rocket science.

http://www.stltoday.com/gallery/news/multimedia/a-fifth-night-of-tear-gas-in-ferguson/collection_393659cd-99cf-50c6-a30b-a7b454f36125.html#9

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Quote from: WarToad on August 14, 2014, 01:38:27 PM
Protesters are bringing it upon themselves.  Bunch of idiots.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/Shooting-protests-turn-violent-in-St-Louis-suburb-271183131.html

If you're trying to injure or kill a LEO, you're going to get injured or killed.  Rocket science.

http://www.stltoday.com/gallery/news/multimedia/a-fifth-night-of-tear-gas-in-ferguson/collection_393659cd-99cf-50c6-a30b-a7b454f36125.html#9

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Finally, a voice of reason, not tainted by extreme darkroom paranoia...and rampant assumptions and uninformed rhetoric.

Gold for you Wartoad.

Quote from: Littleenki on August 14, 2014, 01:53:16 PM
Finally, a voice of reason, not tainted by extreme darkroom paranoia...and rampant assumptions and uninformed rhetoric.

Gold for you Wartoad.

I don't think your qualified to be calling anyone paranoid, or uninformed - which are your OWN assumptions.

Who wants a riot?
See who came DRESSED for one.

Images from Ferguson.

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/q1_zps56662c2e.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/q1_zps56662c2e.jpg.html)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/q2_zps3a8051c8.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/q2_zps3a8051c8.jpg.html)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/q3_zps50a5e833.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/q3_zps50a5e833.jpg.html)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/q4_zpsa12e6118.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/q4_zpsa12e6118.jpg.html)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/q5_zpsbf3664eb.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/q5_zpsbf3664eb.jpg.html)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/q6_zps26490438.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/q6_zps26490438.jpg.html)

"We come armed with pickets!"

"Yea well, we come armed like the Third Reich!"

Quote from: Sinny on August 14, 2014, 01:59:28 PM
I don't think your qualified to be calling anyone paranoid, or uniformed - which are your OWN assumptions.

Who wants a riot?
See who came DRESSED for one.

It's called a uniform.  They're required to wear it.  They show up in riot gear because of the previous several days of looting and violence from the protestors.  100% completely expected.

Quote from: Sinny on August 14, 2014, 01:59:28 PM
I don't think your qualified to be calling anyone paranoid, or

Quoteuniformed

- which are your OWN assumptions.

Who wants a riot?
See who came DRESSED for one.

Just differences of opinion, nothing more.

Police should come dressed for a school dance then?

And I said uninformed, not uniformed.

Peace,
Le

Quote from: Littleenki on August 14, 2014, 02:06:21 PM

Police should come dressed for a school dance then?

And I said uninformed, not uniformed.

Peace,
Le

My typo is irrelevant..
Are the pair of you condoning the merger between Army and Police in the states  ???  ???  ???

Might I remind you:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." - Ben Franklin.

Honestly , we're living in the age of idiocracy.
Who shot who here?

INSTEAD OF AIMING A F**KING RIFLE AT THE PROTESTERS, THEY SHOULD BE AIMING A MEGA-PHONE STATING THAT A FULL ENQUIREY WILL BE HELD INTO THE MANS DEATH. THAT'S HOW YOU REASSURE YOUR POPULATION, NOT BY SENDING IN THE BLOODY 'ARMED FORCES'.

WACO, RUBY RIDGE.. COUGH BLOODY COUGH.

Not to mention these 'friendly' cops have been caught trying to halt all media coverage, and have started meddling with social news broadcasts - how very 'honest' of them.

ETA: Rant aimed at the world, not our members.

Oh, great.  The KKK has shown up in Ferguson.  What could possibly go wrong with that?
(http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=223638&d=1407976050)

Quote from: WarToad on August 14, 2014, 02:19:28 PM
Oh, great.  The KKK has shown up in Ferguson.  What could possibly go wrong with that?
(http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=223638&d=1407976050)

It's a fake trending news story:
http://twitchy.com/2014/08/12/kkk-trends-as-rumors-spread-of-group-assembling-near-ferguson-mo/

Quote
Then again, some have expanded their definition of KKK.

Quote
The KKK traded in their sheets for badges as far as I'm concerned.

aha.

Quote from: WarToad on August 14, 2014, 02:04:05 PM
They show up in riot gear because of the previous several days of looting

What did they think everyone was going to do? Loot the police uniforms? ahahaha.

I hope this reply brings some clarity to the situation, I only mean well, Sinny, to help open eyes and liberate certain dark viewpoints which only serve to perpetuate the uncertain aura of such a horrible event such as this shooting.

There is no merger of police and Army, there may sometimes be sharing of information, but if police need extra help, thats what the National Guard is for, a buffer between the police and Army.

There is an agenda here perhaps, of tomfoolery in disinformation and control of the masses...manipulation going on even....but likely just a struggle for a policeman's weapon in his own patrol car after a pair of men were told to walk on the sidewalk not the middle of the street, and their own hubris and criminal idealism caused them to attack the officer who was doing his job, instead of obeying a rule of common sense...dont walk in the middle of the street.

Still, this is all the information I have gleaned from public sources here in the US....so it could of course be errant or inaccurate...oh, and where do YOU reside?

Not to mention, do YOU have any information about this case which hasnt been regurgitated by the mainstream and alternative media? No, YOU do not.

Have YOU done a background check on Dorian Johnson? Is he a fine upstanding citizen? No he is not at all....but I will not post any legal information about him here as I know such posting is against T and  C of PRC...

youll have to pay 100 bucks a year like I do for a background check service like I do to get that information.

So, therefore you are basing your opinions on what is being told to you by sources (one a multiple convicted felon, another-Al Sharpton, and the other the internet and tv news)which are controlled by whom?

Idiocracy, indeed.

Peace,
Le

Quote from: WarToad on August 14, 2014, 02:19:28 PM
Oh, great.  The KKK has shown up in Ferguson.  What could possibly go wrong with that?
(http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=223638&d=1407976050)

Now theres a bunch worthy of a beating....sad sacks of intolerant buffoonery. Yes, this could now get ugly.

Sad
Le

Since this is basically a police hate thread that has lost it's worth, I'm out.

Ditto, WarToad, les grab a beer mate....

Le

I'm stationed in the UK as most of this forum are aware. I care about my American cousins.
I have the same sources who guys have access to - and I've mainly been using Alternative news sources, not mainstream - the mainstream reports DO NOT include the attempted cencorship of the media conducted the police forces during this situation. (Plus my sources don't seem to adding the KKK DISINFO).

I have been following the militarisation of the UK and American police forces, and I have every right to present my opinion on the matter.
If you dont agree with me, I take it you don't agree with your own American Veterans, and active members of the Police who share my concerns.

ETA: I don't care if he was rapist or the next nobel prize winner - what has that got to do with his illegal murder?

Well guys, as my Ma states:

"If you can't take the heat - get out the kitchen".

Quote from: WarToad on August 14, 2014, 02:38:46 PM
thread that has lost it's worth, I'm out.

I provided real piks - you did not  :P

No bad feelings guys.

Quote from: Sinny on August 14, 2014, 03:00:16 PM
I provided real piks - you did not  :P

No bad feelings guys.

None at all, Sinny, :D

Maybe once some information comes out, we can revisit this one...

Cheers!
Le

Quote
There are probably a few things going on in Ferguson that you won't see on the MSM, this is just one of them.

As I was following the live feeds tonight in SkepticOverlord's thread I saw an interview with a protester that caused me to stop and think.

He stated to the camera and reporter that the riots and looting that struck Ferguson that first night were allowed to happen. He said the Police could have stopped it easily I when it started but they didn't even try. He said that they allowed it to start and continue for a good while before they even started to act.

When asked why he thought that happened... He said he thinks that it was to make the world look at Ferguson negatively because of those events and that it was taking the heat off of what happened to cause a young man to lose his life far too early.

Make of that what you will. It made me wonder enough, that I looked for some good news coming out of there.

I found some. And when I found it, I wondered if maybe he wasn't dead on the money with his thoughts.

Are there bad people on Ferguson. Absolutely. Is it all of Ferguson? Absolutely not. Some people felt the need to tear up their neighborhood, but others that reside there were all too willing to fix the damage done to their fellow business men, buildings, homes and other property.

You will not see this on the news...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1027250/pg1

Now, if anyone remembers my posting over the 2011 UK riots, you will realise the stories are indentical. It's all 'preparation' for the 'coming' civil unrest. Which by the way has been rumbled, and I'm trying to spread the word.

Here's some Mainstream coverage:

Washington Post reporter Wesley Lowery was detained by police on Wednesday while reporting on the unrest in Ferguson, Mo., following the fatal shooting of unarmed teen Michael Brown by police over the weekend. (The Washington Post)  

Quote
Initially, both Ryan Reilly of the Huffington Post and I were asked for identification. I was wearing my lanyard, but Ryan asked why he had to show his ID. They didn't press the point, but one added that if we called 911, no one would answer.

Then they walked away. Moments later, the police reemerged, telling us that we had to leave. I pulled my phone out and began recording video.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-ferguson-washington-post-reporter-wesley-lowery-gives-account-of-his-arrest/2014/08/13/0fe25c0e-2359-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost

  One day,not long ago, in a major city not far from my home, a young father was walking to work.Two teenagers
walked past him,one pulled a gun and killed him.The killer
was arrested and on his way to the hearing, was laughing
and joking, with no interrest in his plight. He had some
contact with the police but had not been considered a risk.
  He was,after all, just a happy-go-lucky-seventeen year
old..He was also a killer..Sometimes you just don't know..
  Rubicon

Quote from: 08rubicon on August 14, 2014, 03:23:51 PM
  One day,not long ago, in a major city not far from my home, a young father was walking to work.Two teenagers
walked past him,one pulled a gun and killed him.The killer
was arrested and on his way to the hearing, was laughing
and joking, with no interrest in his plight. He had some
contact with the police but had not been considered a risk.
  He was,after all, just a happy-go-lucky-seventeen year
old..He was also a killer..Sometimes you just don't know..
  Rubicon

Theres one story like that here in Clearwater recently, a 18 yr old kid killed a woman in a purse snatching, and the detectives told me he had no previous charges as a teen...of course we agreed he had probably just never been caught.
He stabbed her to death and threw her body in a ditch on a public bike trail which passes by a rough neighborhood.

If these young men would lose the dogma of the ghetto mindset, they could become good men, but their surroundings of poverty and upbringing by angry disillusioned parents and peers often ruins them for life.

Sad no matter what angle we view it from...frustrated police, versus frustrated youth...a battle rages on.

As for civil unrest.....well...theres a lot to be said for vigilance.

Le

Interesing thread.

i'm not a shrink but it seems to me that peeps are a product of their upbringing & environment. If you live in a violent area, you will most likely become a violent person. I grew up in the East End, a very violent place indeed, and my mum (bless her) realised this & moved us all out of there.

Cops are peeps too, and i would guess a cop from the Bronx would be more likely to bust your face for spitting on the sidewalk than one in Palm Springs would.
And yes, i doubt the guy who got shot was a saint, so it's a good idea to get all the story.

I have learned not to trust cops, that's not the same as hating them, many of them know they are there to 'serve & protect' but that used to mean the public, not the system.

Like in every walk of life, you get the 'old school' being pushed aside by the new school, and the new ones have no morals at all IMHO

I have seen the 'OMG Martial law is coming' threads pop up regularly on that other site, it still hasn't happened. Not because it is not 'their' plan (of course it is) but they are far too weak right now.
They use murders etc to bolster the anti-gun lobby.
"If guns kill people, do pens write books?"

Of course not, People kill people, and people write books, the gun or pen is just a tool, like money. Use the tool correctly or you might become one :P

I guess they will use this as another platform to further their aims, in the US they want your guns, in the case of Europe, they will be coming to confiscate our pitchforks ::)

Sinny, please relax dear, you are far too intelligent to let this get to you ;)

I know about the media manipulation. Remember the Brixton riots? I was there, blacks, whites, asians, all side by side fighting the Met, which Thatcher treated as her own personal stormtroopers. Yet the papers insisted on calling it a 'race riot' when it was nothing of the kind, they even ignored all the locals who called the paper to say they had got it wrong. Well BIG surprise there, i gave up writing to papers years ago, they never publish it if it's anywhere near true :P

Really, policing a town is just so damn easy, make local mods. Give the biggest and most respected / responsible guy in each street a big stick & get him to patrol those streets around him, and if anyone's up to no good, bash them & send them home. Simple. John Peel had the right idea.
Thatcher did the smart thing, she bussed hundreds of cops from London & Kent to go beat up the miners when they were on strike, she knew the Yorkshire cops could not, or would not, put the boot in.
Put a man in a strange place, and he will naturally be more aggressive ::)

Just my 2 cents

Forgive the typo's to come.

I do not 'hate' the police, I hate 'big brother'.
I'm aware that there are good cops and bad cops, and I think PWM raises a good point about our environments, I take that all on board.

Having said that I see a huge flaw in your perception PWM.
You state that you've heard the 'hype' about Marshal Law, but it 'hasn't happened yet' - lol.

Maybe this is where my political studys step in.

It is not a case of "its not happened yet".

The idea is, that it won't just 'happen' in an event, 'at a certain time'..

It will slowly be implimented, so much so, that you will not recognise when it IS here. Slowly but surely it's supposed to become part of your 'reality', and you will accept it.

"You cannot free fools from chains that they revere"

"None are more enslaved than those who falsley believe they are free"

We've got Wartoad and Enkii looking staight through the Military Hardware of the state police force.. I'm not American, yet that screams alarm bells for me, me - an outsider looking in. The Presisdent has the right to kidnap, detain and  kill anyone he wants, domestic or not.

At what point did all this become okay? When do we reverse it? Or do we just allow it to continue, whilst we trade liberty for 'security', which is actually slavery wrapped up in a ribbon.

If not us who?
If not now when?

You should all be screaming about the erosion of the Constitution, not pigs in uniforms having a few slurs thrown against them. Set your priorities.

I didn't reealise I felt so strongly about the matter, and although I may have been a bit more emotional than usual, I hope you don't allow that to detract from the very valid points I raised...

..The term 'Pigs' is a heavily loaded British phase, which does not necessarliy suit the Americam theme of this thread..

QuoteThe idea is, that it won't just 'happen' in an event, 'at a certain time'..

It will slowly be implimented, so much so, that you will not recognise when it IS here. Slowly but surely it's supposed to become part of your 'reality', and you will accept it.

Yes Sinny i am aware of that also, in the case of Europe, most of them banned guns years ago, hence my remark about pitchforks. I was going to add that they would pass a law that all kitchen knives be less than 6 inches long, and you would require a permit for a pitchfork, LOL

This means that they are dead scared of us, the people. That's GOOD!
All we have to do is A) show the peeps the problem, B) show them the alternatives, and finally C) show them the most workable solution, as we, the slightly-more-informed-sheeple have though of and discussed.

QuoteWe've got Wartoad and Enkii looking staight through the Military Hardware of the state police force.. I'm not American, yet that screams alarm bells for me, me - an outsider looking in. The Presisdent has the right to kidnap, detain and  kill anyone he wants, domestic or not

Hell the UK have had that for years, i had 2 cops with loaded Beretta 9mm's trying to shoot my blind mother & my brother's dog....all because we had a row with a neighbour & he told them we were arms dealers!

The word "terrorist' wasn't in use so much back then, because there were very few 'terrorists' to speak of, unless you include Menachim Begin, but i won't go there.....

QuoteAt what point did all this become okay? When do we reverse it? Or do we just allow it to continue, whilst we trade liberty for 'security', which is actually slavery wrapped up in a ribbon

It was NEVER okay, it still isn't. I agree with you about the cause my dear....the bundy ranch episode woke up a LOT of peeps to what we knew already, OK?

But we need to preach the solution, not just the problem. Politicians everywhere love to point the finger, but have no idea at all how they themselves would handle the issue they argue about so fiercely.

QuoteYou should all be screaming about the erosion of the Constitution, not pigs in uniforms having a few slurs thrown against them. Set your priorities.

Well i tried screaming, but that just brought more armed cops to my door......

Peeps overreact to the cops who overreact to the peeps who....your own signature says it all, my dear.

I don't have the solution, unless it is TAP. I only know i can beat the system using my own special talent, which is in the 'field' of energy. So that is where i am fighting my war, for the rest of you peeps, try to find an area where you are competent in, and use that to fight with.
Simple really.
Either that or we all die, soon i wil post stuff about the viking invasion of 860, now THOSE were interesting times!

QuoteI didn't reealise I felt so strongly about the matter, and although I may have been a bit more emotional than usual, I hope you don't allow that to detract from the very valid points I raised...

No problem ;)

Quote..The term 'Pigs' is a heavily loaded British phase, which does not necessarliy suit the Americam theme of this thread..

Well that's why i used the term 'cops' rather than 'scum' which was, i believe, in use back then ;D

I think what I'm finding most disturbing about this thread and the other, regarding the police, is that there is an expressed belief in the supposed moral requirement to uncritically, and unquestioningly revere them.  In other words, even an incrementally critical attitude towards police behaviour is automatically dismissed as "hate," and "negativity."

More than anything else, it is this type of thinking which I believe needs to be strenuously and adamantly challenged; because it is a mindset which leads directly to fascism.

Quote from: petrus4 on August 15, 2014, 02:49:00 AM
I think what I'm finding most disturbing about this thread and the other, regarding the police, is that there is an expressed belief in the supposed moral requirement to uncritically, and unquestioningly revere them.  In other words, even an incrementally critical attitude towards police behaviour is automatically dismissed as "hate," and "negativity."

More than anything else, it is this type of thinking which I believe needs to be strenuously and adamantly challenged; because it is a mindset which leads directly to fascism.

Seconded.

Thirded!

Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on August 14, 2014, 09:09:36 PM
But we need to preach the solution, not just the problem

Preaching the solution includes being able to excerise your ammendment rights, and publicly demonstrate agianst the corrupt system.

When the police are preventing that lawful process, what happens next?

Quote
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

John F. Kennedy

Of course, they have us in some sort of catch 22 at the moment, they want and require armed conflict...

Quote from: petrus4 on August 15, 2014, 02:49:00 AM
I think what I'm finding most disturbing about this thread and the other, regarding the police, is that there is an expressed belief in the supposed moral requirement to uncritically, and unquestioningly revere them.  In other words, even an incrementally critical attitude towards police behaviour is automatically dismissed as "hate," and "negativity."

More than anything else, it is this type of thinking which I believe needs to be strenuously and adamantly challenged; because it is a mindset which leads directly to fascism.

QuoteSeconded.

QuoteThirded!

What a cute little echo chamber.

Peggy has truely changed for the worse.  And you wonder about why the goodby threads.

Quote from: WarToad on August 15, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Peggy has truely changed for the worse. 

How about you elborate with something substantial..

From ferguson:

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/fergi2_zpse29ee45f.png) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/fergi2_zpse29ee45f.png.html)

To the Nazi State:

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/fergi1_zps288432d8.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/fergi1_zps288432d8.jpg.html)

Who wants to be the next millionaire?

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/fergi3_zpsae99795d.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/fergi3_zpsae99795d.jpg.html)

Well, at least some people share my sentiments!

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/fergi4_zpsdc0c736d.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/fergi4_zpsdc0c736d.jpg.html)

From:  http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/08/15/dhs-is-employing-agent-provocateurs-and-are-behind-the-events-in-ferguson/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DaveHodges-TheCommonSenseShow+%28Dave+Hodges-The+Common+Sense+Show%29

QuoteWhat the mainstream media is not reporting is beginning to leak out from local citizens in St. Louis and from an informant from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) who are all telling a different story that the one you are seeing on Fox, CNN and CBS. First, the locals are reporting that the rioting has spread far beyond the Ferguson city limits. Rioting is taking place as away as St. Charles which is located approximately 20 miles away from Ferguson. Second, more people are becoming aware that the police chief of Ferguson, Thomas Jackson, is not in control of his own police force as he has relinquished control to DHS.
DHS Is Fanning the Flames of Violence

In the past five days I have been contacted, via one of my most trusted sources, a member of DHS who is opposed to the events and DHS involvement in Ferguson, Missouri. This source stated that DHS is running the Ferguson Police Department and their actions are designed to antagonize and to provoke the locals to violence. He further stated that he believed that the ultimate goal is to inflame the local citizens to such a point martial law will be declared.

In even a more shocking revelation, this DHS source stated that the rioting and looting which followed the shooting death of 18 year old, Michael Brown, was encouraged and exacerbated by undercover DHS agents posing as members of the Black Panthers.

Lending support to this latest accusation of DHS complicity in the rioting was the behavior of the Ferguson Police Department during the looting. During the civil unrest, the behavior of the Ferguson Police was to simply create a perimeter around the looting and allow it to continue. This violates every tenet of law enforcement. It more resembles quarantine procedures practiced by DHS, Northcom and the National Guard. The police should have moved to intervene to stop the looting and prevent the spread of violence. If the situation was beyond the control of the police, then the National Guard should have been brought in. Given the revelation of the DHS source, it seems plausible that his story of wanting the violence to escalate appears to be the case.

Much more at link.

I don't think this has been posted before ---

Breaking: PHOTOS RELEASED of Suspect Michael Brown ROBBING STORE Before Shooting

Ferguson police released a report today detailing a robbery before the fatal shooting last week of 18 year-old Michael Brown. Chief of police Jackson held a press conference early Friday morning.

The convenience store video reveals Michael Brown entering the store followed by Johnson. Brown hands a box of Swisher Sweets to Johnson. Brown took several boxes of cigars and turned to leave the store. "Brown grabbed the clerk and "forcefully pushed him back into a display rack."

From the report: The incident is related to another incident detailed by Ferguson Police.


The link I am attaching has specific pics of Michael Brown and Johnson during the store robbery, and has copies of police reports. This really does show the idiocy of peoples' actions when they haven't a clue about what really happened. This 18 year old child that was killed, following a robbery, was 6' 4" and weighed 292 pounds.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-photos-released-of-suspect-michael-brown-robbing-store-before-shooting/

Not surprised Amy, it seems to be standard practise these days.

Rdunk, I couldn't interpret your personally feelings, however, I for one know that the police aren't supposed to be judge, jury and exocutioner.

Quote from: WarToad on August 15, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
What a cute little echo chamber.

Peggy has truely changed for the worse.

Nah, its just that when The Corportate Owned Media
wants to inflame racial tenstions because that fits
the bill of the POTUS agenda, they love to keep this kind
of stuff running day and night in the headlines.

Headlines out there, become headlines here, etc.

Its great at getting the public all riled up, and
creates even more social unrest, which then
in turn feeds the system.

Its a win win for the media, they get more ratings,
the system gets more arrests, more peeps for the prison
population, and they get publicity, ratings, etc.

Quote from: rdunk on August 15, 2014, 06:07:48 PM

This 18 year old child that was killed, following a robbery, was 6' 4" and weighed 292 pounds.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-photos-released-of-suspect-michael-brown-robbing-store-before-shooting/

Yep, good point Rdunk! Meanwhile, an elderly lady was killed somewhere
by 3 youths, but that is not news, no one cares.

There are lots of other news and interesting exciting stuff,
positive things happening in the world, but yah,
riots always make the front page.

BTS, I maintain that this blatant destruction of the Constituation far out weighs any individual murder.
Because that's what this is now about, the shooting was just the catalyst.

Quote from: Sinny on August 15, 2014, 06:19:22 PM
BTS, I maintain that this blatant destruction of the Constituation far out weighs any individual murder.

Sinny, I agree with you on the point of The Police State,
and the never ending creeping towards a facist regime. Yes, I do.

Most of that is happening quietly though, everynow and then
when it suits the agenda, they will pick out a story, like this
one and get the peeps all riled up.

Meanwhile....back in Washington D.C. .....

;)

There are now videos out showing M?. Brown and friend robbing a store just before the encounter with the officer.  Google it.  I'm on my phone and can't put the link on here.  No reason to loot and riot...

True, but the angry People were egged on by agents provocateurs.  This was, in My estimation, a ritual sacrifice, a psyop, and an effort to justify martial law.

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 15, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
True, but the angry People were egged on by agents provocateurs.  This was, in My estimation, a ritual sacrifice, a psyop, and an effort to justify martial law.

Seconded :P

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 15, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
True, but the angry People were egged on by agents provocateurs.  This was, in My estimation, a ritual sacrifice, a psyop, and an effort to justify martial law.

Some cops in Canada (I think at a SPP protest) got caught red handed doing that exact thing. This is all for show folks... "We the people" are becoming "We the screwed". Simple way to help fix a lot of this is start teaching kids about morals and laws as part of the school curriculum. If Spongebob & X-Box is raising your kids because both parents are working full time and exhausted at the end of the day...who is teaching them this? Multiply this by a couple of generations.  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 15, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
True, but the angry People were egged on by agents provocateurs.  This was, in My estimation, a ritual sacrifice, a psyop, and an effort to justify martial law.

I am in agreement with that indeed.

Quote from: Sinny on August 15, 2014, 06:15:28 PM

Rdunk, I couldn't interpret your personally feelings, however, I for one know that the police aren't supposed to be judge, jury and exocutioner.

Sinny, my personal feeling are, the DHS should be either disarmed or eliminated. And, there should be specific laws making inciting a riot, and rioting, felonious crimes. I think most local police forces are simply trying to do their jobs in protecting us.

What we have been seeing in Ferguson is pure stupidity of the people, in particular the robberies and breakage. 

All of this can be corrected, if we can keep DHS out of it.

Rdunk....I would echo that feeling for me also.

Quote from: Ellirium113 on August 15, 2014, 10:18:45 PM
Some cops in Canada (I think at a SPP protest) got caught red handed doing that exact thing. This is all for show folks... "We the people" are becoming "We the screwed". Simple way to help fix a lot of this is start teaching kids about morals and laws as part of the school curriculum. If Spongebob & X-Box is raising your kids because both parents are working full time and exhausted at the end of the day...who is teaching them this? Multiply this by a couple of generations.  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow

Problem I see is multifaceted...

• Morals are subjective - a woman in a bikini in public is extremely immoral by some standards, whereas not so much by others.  Ethics is a better choice.
• There are ONLY three Laws - the three Laws of Ethics.  All else is a bill, a statute, a code, an edict, a declaration, an act, a regulation, a constitution, a rule, and so on.  Look and You will see that NONE are actually called a law.
• It's clearly not that simple - unless We get rid of the need for money and can spend all the time Our children need in teaching Them.  Against the psychopathic institutions that "teach" (not much), the expending energy meaningfully in the system so as to reap enough accounting units to get by (abandoning Our children to strangers), and other blockades, We have little chance.
• Already We are into a generation that has been taught stuff and fluff but no ethics.  We can expect a difficult time for that beings so, since these young adults have nothing to teach Their children.

But yeah...  If We are taught truth and shown ethics, We stand a much better chance of creating a better planet in accordance with the Betterment Ethic (a true ethic, as opposed to the slave's work "ethic").

Here is another piece of the information about what happened in Ferguson Mo., and includes some footage of the video inside the convenience store.

Video == Michael Brown robbing the convenience store.

                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3uNw4sNm9c

Forgive me, but i thought that Brown had already surrendered, and was on his knees, when they shot him.
Now, given that they may have thought he was 'going for a weapon'-that seems to be the standard defense in these cases- they could have tasered him, used pepperspray, or a good old-fashioned truncheon about the head.

I know that sounds cruel & aggressive, but it's a whole lot better than taking a life, for Fk's sake. Truth or guilt in the matter could have been dealt with later, that is what the judicial system is for.
While my personal view is that i would rather see some "Juddge Dredd's" in town (it would save us the tax-paying peeps a whole lot of money, and don't forget, bullets are expensive too, but cheaper than lawyers :P) at least if they are very carefully vetted & trained.
I don't have a problem with that, especially if it's someone local who i would know personally.....
Also, we in Europe finally figured out why the cops there have all this ordnance, it is leftover from the Iraq 'war' and it's conveniently painted white, all they have to do is put the blue lights on top, ;)
Talk about efficiency...::)

Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on August 16, 2014, 11:49:26 PM
Forgive me, but i thought that Brown had already surrendered, and was on his knees, when they shot him.

I read somewhere that the main witness was the other guy that robbed the store with him.

Quote from: ArMaP on August 17, 2014, 12:35:30 AM
I read somewhere that the main witness was the other guy that robbed the store with him.

If you look closely at the store video...you will find that information is correct.  I noticed that because that friend also talked to the media.  Video tells on a person.

It is bad that a life was taken with this situation, however it happened, but in any case there are certain foundational truths that are high lighted and certainly should not be ignored.

This victim is dead, and he will be remembered. But, the heinous crimes against the people of this country, with all of the looting, breakage, and destruction taking place by others in Ferguson is a far greater crime. The only way for this to be stopped is for the law to come down hard, according to the laws of the land, and take all of these people-criminals to justice for their crimes. This is an upmost requirement, because if the laws we live under are not upheld, then we have NO LAW!! With no law visa-vie no enforcement, then we have ANARCHY, under the which, "It is every man/person for his or her self"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stuff like this in Ferguson is the beginning of "Zombie time" if it is not stopped in its tracks. This is not a racial thing!! This is not a political thing!! This is about keeping our country the great country to live in that we grew up with!!

Very well said rdunk.  The voice of common sense...law and order.  Anarchy is not the way.  It seems things all over are getting out of hand. 

Yes spacemaverick, and and I just heard either after last night or the night before, that law enforcement personnel was just standing back and letting the lawlessness happen. The business owners are left alone to defend their property and merchandise. Isn't that a fine how-do-you-do?? How is it possible that law enforcement is not upholding the laws, as they are being openly broken. Yes, these may be citizens, but they must be held strongly accountable, as our laws demand!! 

The very same thing happened in the Rodney King incident in California where riots happened and store owners had to protect their stores without help from police.

Will the real M. Brown step forward.  Some say innocent, some say he was surrendering, some say he is a robber.  A picture now shows up on facebook with him drinking vodka with a mouth full of money holding a gun pointed at the person taking the picture.  Makes a person wonder....

Looting and Robbing are 'Heinous' crimes..

OH REALLY! LOL.

Murder is a 'heinous' crime!
Murder of MILLIONS is a HEINOUS crime.

You actually just stated that robbery was more 'serious' than murder...

Looting your local store is far from HEINOUS (given the circumstances)... Deplorable perhaps.

Anyway, the witnesses, I.e 'town folk of Ferguson' have stated on camera that the looting was ALLOWED by the cops, until such a point they HAD to act.

As I have stated previously, this a tactic deployed by the police to ensnare the unsuspecting suspicious crowd.

At the riots in England 2011, their tactic weren't lost on all of us, the firstly 'heared' a few hundred BLACK kids into an area, told them they were being KETTLED on grounds of a 'riot' (which did not exist as that point).

Then what followed was a RIOT started by AGENTS, and then continued by the YOUTH, that thought 'well I'm being detained over a riot, I MIGHT AS WELL RIOT'.

Then the police systematically 'kettled' a few hundred peeps from one street to the next, bring some ORGANISATION to the looting. Whilst the police maintained the strategy of NO INTERFERENCE during the looting, only to ensure once one street was looted, the crowd moved to the next street like good little sheep.

Looting is started by OPPORTUNISTS, not STRATEGISTS.
And then they all fall victim to GROUP MENTALITY, which has scientifaclly been proven to change your mental and emotional state.

And this is before they cops uses their high and low frequency devices to FOCK with their heads.

Looting is not 'heinous', the lack of education these looters have is heinous. If they better understood the reality and phycology behind the situation they would stand a better chance of controlling their moral behavior.

Who gains from the riots? The police.


Crapberry, sorry for typos,

ETA: why I nobody commenting on good that is also coming from THE PEOPLE OF FERGUSON? I'm watching RT coverage right now. The majority of people are still out PEACEFULLY protesting messages of unity, love, justice, the American Constitution, the issue's of racism, and the need for things to change. They all seem intelligent and coherant, they are doing America a justice.

I stand with these people from across the sea, now show some appreciation, their putting their asses on the line..

In the 'Land of the Free'  ::)












Small print: with the worlds largest prison population.

Quote from: Sinny on August 17, 2014, 10:43:14 AM
Looting and Robbing are 'Heinous' crimes..

The law is a game of Tetris for the police.  It's a question of using whatever piece of legislation they can, which will create a complete line of blocks, and therefore get them off the hook, or accomplish whatever other objective they have at the time.  They will claim whatever rubbish they need to in order to defend themselves, and they have no regard for the truth whatsoever. 

Watch Law and Order.  Watch the reality shows.  Why do I mention these two things?  Because these are things which are propaganda for the police, and even there, you can see them doing it.  The law is a Rubik's Cube.  Twist the block into the right pattern, give the right BS rationalisation, and the squares all line up.

The law is not for them.  The law is only for us, the civilians.  That is the attitude they have.  We are the children, they are supposedly our parents.  We should just shut up, maybe say thank you occasionally, but apart from that, simply be silent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

Let's all sing "Kumbaya" while the town is looted by goons.

No, that's not how civilized society works. The "peaceful" control the unruly.

If they were sincere they'd have stopped "their own" days ago.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 17, 2014, 01:55:23 PM
Let's all sing "Kumbaya" while the town is looted by goons.

No, that's not how civilized society works. The "peaceful" control the unruly.

If they were sincere they'd have stopped "their own" days ago.

At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, the African American community in America, are often driven by a strong sense of entitlement, and self-victimisation.  It may seem odd that I am taking this stance after what I have said about the police; but the reality is that there are very few entirely innocent parties to be found here, even if the original murder victim was.  There is an attitude here of deep hypocrisy.

Blacks in America will quite happily shoot each other in large numbers, and the civil rights movement never says a word about that.  The only time you will see Al Sharpton or the Black Panthers show up, is when the hand on the trigger or the knife blade happens to be white.  That is when you start hearing the chorus of, "No justice, no peace."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U

Here is a video from a black person about this issue.

I will make another post here instead of modifying the last one, but there are two related points I want to make, here.

a}  The Civil War was not about slavery.  It was about taxes, and the North losing access to lucrative ports if the South had been able to secede.  Lincoln only freed the slaves in the Southern states, in the hope that it would cause chaos and distract the Confederate army when he did so.  No Northern slaves were freed at the time. 

Abraham Lincoln was not a hero.  He suspended numerous Constitutional protections, and locked up large numbers of people without charge or trial.  If you were critical of his doing that to other people, he would do it to you as well.  John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln for the same reason that Brutus and the Senate murdered Julius Caesar; in an attempt to restore the legitimate Republic.  The Lincoln Memorial should rightfully be dismantled, because it was built on lies.  Lincoln was not a great man.  His priority was to preserve the Union so that he could continue to collect all of the states' taxes for his masters, the bankers.  He did not care about the slaves.  It is wrong that he is remembered as a saviour of African Americans.  He was not.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

b}  Martin Luther King was not killed because of his efforts to end racial discrimination.  He was killed because he wanted to turn his racial activism into a political platform, which would involve raising the minimum wage, and improving working conditions for poor workers.

Most of the major events or issues which have been said to be about racism or discrimination in America, in fact were not.  The Rodney King bashing and the resulting riots were obviously an exception; but again, a lot of hypocrisy exists there, in the sense that while black people have no issue with the number of their own people who they kill, the only time they will riot, is if it is a white person who kills one of them.  They should be just as intolerant of killing each other, as they are of whites killing them.

Petrus, I agree with your sentiments.

Our society is broken and diseased, the only way forward is education, and I do not mean STATE education.

The Black self-victimisation was and is a phycological certainty, the only way over come the negative implications of this is to recognise it for what it is and to build social bridges with our newley revived and ethical shared goals and value's.

You want Utopia. There will never be Utopia. Man is flawed. As long as emotion rules, so will the animal in us.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 17, 2014, 03:41:22 PM
You want Utopia. There will never be Utopia. Man is flawed. As long as emotion rules, so will the animal in us.

You are very perceptive VI...very perceptive.

It isn't perceptive at all. It is dismissive.

Striving for more than a degraded society is hardly calling for 'Utopia' - a word of such I'm sure nobody can define.

Quote from: Sinny on August 17, 2014, 09:23:40 PM
It isn't perceptive at all. It is dismissive.

Striving for more than a degraded society is hardly calling for 'Utopia' - a word of such I'm sure nobody can define.

And how long has man been seeking the ideal society? Good luck with that.

We is trying, nonetheless...
No, it's not a perfect society, but a whole damn lot better than what we have in place right now! :(
Sorry i am angry, off to bed for me....

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 17, 2014, 09:43:40 PM
And how long has man been seeking the ideal society? Good luck with that.

... Hense the rise of feminism..

Good job guys. 

Several things...  First, Lincoln signed away the US to foreign investors to pay war debts.  In 1871, the corporation of THE UNITED STATES was formed, with the incorporation document looking just like the Constitution, but with "united states" changed to "UNITED STATES."  In that year He (now as the corporate CEO/President) issued the first executive order.  Exec orders skew the carefully and deliberately set up balance of power in the original.  THE UNITED STATES has no Bill of Rights.

Second, We look out at Humans that have been TAUGHT to behave in certain ways by the psychopaths in control.  We then eat up Their propaganda that "Humans are bad," as They point to Their evil works and blame "Humanity."  Can We expect better behavior from Those who know no other way?  Geez.

No.  To say We are "bad" and then claim no path to a better way of doing things is pure propaganda BS being spouted.

As for how long We have been trying, against the control and propaganda of the useless eliters, to better this planet - the fact that there are now GAMECHANGERS makes that time irrelevant.  Free energy, robotics, the Interweb...  These can be used to finally prevail, teach better behavior, and make this planet a place worth living on.

History proves we have failed repeatedly. What is your solution?

Quote from: Sinny on August 17, 2014, 09:23:40 PM
It isn't perceptive at all. It is dismissive.

Striving for more than a degraded society is hardly calling for 'Utopia' - a word of such I'm sure nobody can define.

Gold for You, M'dear.  I agree 100%.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 17, 2014, 11:35:54 PM
History proves we have failed repeatedly. What is your solution?

You've missed it?

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=657.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5793.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5626.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5607.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2103.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2759.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=604.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7110.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7046.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=6987.0

For starters.

ETA:  Again, history is full of efforts under energy scarcity, Human energy input requirements, lack of widespread and rapid information dissemination.  These things are very different now.  History has nothing to say about the new conditions.  Period.

We have come full circle to Utopia. Does anyone here live in the real world?

Your biggest variable, man, shoots your dream right in the foot.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 17, 2014, 11:59:32 PM
We have come full circle to Utopia. Does anyone here live in the real world?

Your biggest variable, man, shoots your dream right in the foot.

Not sure where You're seeing "utopia."  I have never claimed "utopia" as what I see We can create.  There will always be problems and issues.  What I offer is only VASTLY better than what We have now.

For starters.

ETA:  Again, history is full of efforts under energy scarcity,

lol, not really the case at all. How old is our "history" and our "history records" of social living and etc - several thousand years?? On the basis of what little history I know about, me thinks humans have always lived socially "complicated lives" with friends and enemies for various reasons, but almost all of that history was before the discovery/advent use of any "ENERGY SOURCES", except maybe for wind and water. So, your statements about energy and its scarcity having been the major cause of problems of humanity is not supportable.

There have always been wars and social strife, long before any real energy was birthed. There are things about life and death on this earth that man cannot change, and the associated results of both will continue with time, regardless of whatever changes might come and go, as proposals such as TAP, and etc  might interest a few!

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 17, 2014, 11:35:54 PM
History proves we have failed repeatedly. What is your solution?

To keep trying.  What is your proposed solution, VI?  To give up, and concede to extinction?

There is no such thing as Utopia.  This is because, in truth, there is no such thing as a fixed, stable point of any kind.  The entire creation, and life itself, is based on the principle of animation.  Nothing stands still, and everything moves; in one direction or the other.

While there is no Utopia, there is or can be a scenario, where certain problems are incrementally solved.  Thousands of years ago, if we wanted to light a fire, we would have to resort to rubbing two sticks together; a comparitively arduous and uncertain process.  Then in the eighteenth century or so, they developed flint and steel, and today we have safety matches, or steel and plastic cigarette lighters.

If we can do that technologically, then we can certainly do it politically and socially.  Currently, the political trend is to move backwards, as we are seeing in Western society; but I tend to believe that if we do not render ourselves extinct within the next hundred years, then we will learn something from our present mistakes, even if only incrementally and temporarily.  We will have to, purely in order to survive.

I do not want Utopia.  I want one demarcation point along the line, perhaps, where humanity resolves to lift itself out of the mire, and that whatever occurs from then on will be a more consistent improvement, rather than the constant reversions and relapses which we have continued to suffer from up until now; but there is no final destination.  There never will be.  There can either be a continual spiraling upward and outward, or a continual spiraling inward and downward; and I know which of those two I prefer.

Do you ask what we look for, when unnumbered generations shall have passed away? I answer, the way stretches far before us, but the end is lost in light. For twofold is the return of man to God, 'who is our home,' the return of the individual by the way of death, and the return of the race by the fulfillment of its evolution, when the divine secret hidden in the germ shall be perfectly unfolded. With a tear for the dark past, turn we then to the dazzling future, and, veiling our eyes, press forward.

-- Edward Bellamy, Looking Backward

Quote from: rdunk on August 18, 2014, 03:16:41 AM
For starters.

ETA:  Again, history is full of efforts under energy scarcity,

lol, not really the case at all. How old is our "history" and our "history records" of social living and etc - several thousand years?? On the basis of what little history I know about, me thinks humans have always lived socially "complicated lives" with friends and enemies for various reasons, but almost all of that history was before the discovery/advent use of any "ENERGY SOURCES", except maybe for wind and water. So, your statements about energy and its scarcity having been the major cause of problems of humanity is not supportable.

There have always been wars and social strife, long before any real energy was birthed. There are things about life and death on this earth that man cannot change, and the associated results of both will continue with time, regardless of whatever changes might come and go, as proposals such as TAP, and etc  might interest a few!

Well, rdunk, this makes it clear to Me that You don't understand what the issue has been.  Because the product of meaningful energy expended has been scarce (relative to all We might want to accomplish), We placed value on the products that represent the energy We expended.  We bartered and traded.  Because much work was needed We placed contributional expectations on all of Us.  One had to produce, expend One's energy, to acquire what One needed to survive - through direct ways (growing and eating what was grown) or indirectly (barter, trade, etc.).   We accounted for the energy We each expended in this way.

Then the system of representational units was introduced, continuing an accounting of Our energy.  This system was introduced because it gave the controllers of the money supply power of life and death over Others.  The same faction has been in control of the units ever since.  They are psychopathic and have been working to keep Us in wage slavery, having to do things We don't want to do, just to survive.  Keeping Us from Our creative Selves, by exhausting Us, paying not enough to afford the tools We need, and keeping Us in desperation (the bulk of Us).  And desperate, stifled, unhappy People usually choose much poorer behavior than comfortable, free, happy People.

With free energy, accounting for the energy becomes moot.  With robots to do the work no One wants to do, We no longer need to force People one way or another to slave at them.  We can virtually eliminate desperate, stifled, unhappy People.  In turn, the overall behavior We will see will be vastly better than what We see now.

And this has only JUST NOW in the history that We have available.  Never in that history have We had the ability to replace the wage slaves with machines.  Now We can.  Of course, the moneychangers will fight against that.  The psychopaths want to retain Their power over Others.

Are You saying that it's pointless to try and institute a vastly better system?

It is simply "make believe", if you think "scarcity of human energy" is a cause of all of man's problems - but then that is what TAP is, make believe, isn't it??  ;) Right now it has to be "make believe", as there is no demonstrable real reality of it anywhere on this Earth - right? Actually a figment of someone's imagination!!  ;)

(Note: this comment is being make on a breaking news thread, not on the Abundance Paradigm board - I would not be posting this if it were on your board)

Quote from: rdunk on August 18, 2014, 06:48:21 AM
It is simply "make believe", if you think "scarcity of human energy" is a cause of all of man's problems - but then that is what TAP is, make believe, isn't it??  ;) Right now it has to be "make believe", as there is no demonstrable real reality of it anywhere on this Earth - right? Actually a figment of someone's imagination!!  ;)

(Note: this comment is being make on a breaking news thread, not on the Abundance Paradigm board - I would not be posting this if it were on your board)

Sure, rdunk.  Make believe.  You don't see that by far the issues are ones We're beset with at the behest of the psychopaths.  But..  Yeah.  You're right.  Totally and completely right.   ::)

Everything was and will be 'make believe' up until it's creation Rdunk, you were 'make believe' up until you were born, as was the Hadron Collider and the AC current.

If our histostrical annecdotes are anything to go by, the human race has seen 'better' societies, ones which function.

Your really not doing our human progress any favours, here we are in the 21st century, with womenas right, slavery abolished, and a communication system allowing me to work with people from continent to continent.

You've if you wish to blame humans collectively for the mess we're in over the last two thousand years, you can blame those that collectively steered our civilisation this way - which has mostly been 'Christian' white males...

But the tables are turning, and we, as a species can now show some unity and work together from all walks of life..

Providing we ignore you - who would berate and detract from progress.

petrus,

I don't have an answer. I don't seek solutions to problems I know can't be solved. This one can't be solved because man will always be avaricious and bow to his baser tendencies.

You have faith in the human animal that I lost long ago. I did a job few would choose to do and in doing it my eyes were opened to things I would rather have not seen. My eyes were opened to the truth about what we are and are not capable of doing.

I respect your ideas, but I do not believe we have the wherewithal to achieve them. We seem to prefer to self-destruct. It is a failing that is costing us our future as a species. Unfortunately, we are taking the planet with us.

Regards,
V.I.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 18, 2014, 02:27:07 PM
You have faith in the human animal that I lost long ago.

No, I don't.  My position at this point is probably closer to one of cognitive dissonance, truth be told; or holding two opinions simultaneously.  I am well aware of the fact that there is a very strong degree of likelihood that we will become extinct.

I think the immediate future holds one of two possibilities.

a}  We become extinct.  Not much more really needs to be said, there.

b}  We do not become extinct, but we go sufficiently close to it, that the resulting trauma convinces us to make the necessary changes, which would allow the creation of a better society.  This is truthfully why in a way, seeing the situation in Ferguson makes me feel more optimistic than I have in quite some time.

I am aware that it is going to get much, much worse before it gets better; which is actually why I feel considerable enthusiasm towards the idea that it is now truly beginning to get worse.  I believe that America is going to experience a complete re-enactment of Nazi Germany, complete with concentration camps; and that it is further going to be infinitely worse than WW2 was.

I want the world to descend into absolute Hell.  I want humanity to literally feel the very breath of extinction on the back of our necks.  The reason why, is because in order for the pendulum to swing as far back as I want it to in the opposite direction, it is going to need to be pushed as far as it can in the dystopic/fascist direction first.

Man must have his fill of fascism.  Man must have fascism until he is utterly sick of it.  Man must have war to the point where he is either permanently convinced of its' horror, and makes a literally genetic decision to never partake of it again, or becomes extinct in the process.

There is no other way.  If we will not learn decent ethics by their observation, then let us learn them by their violation.  It was said during the making of the film The Ten Commandments, that Man never truly breaks the Law; he merely breaks himself against it.

The sooner we go through this, the sooner we can get past it; but unfortunately, we are going to have to go through it first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o

What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

-- Cool Hand Luke

Another Possibility (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2333.0).

Also, VI, I would encourage you to read the piece at the above link, if you have not already.  It is my own short counterpoint to Amy's Abundance Paradigm novel, although I may write a somewhat longer version at some point.  This, however, will explain my anticipated model of the immediate future for you.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 18, 2014, 02:27:07 PM
petrus,

I don't have an answer. I don't seek solutions to problems I know can't be solved. This one can't be solved because man will always be avaricious and bow to his baser tendencies.

You have faith in the human animal that I lost long ago. I did a job few would choose to do and in doing it my eyes were opened to things I would rather have not seen. My eyes were opened to the truth about what we are and are not capable of doing.

I respect your ideas, but I do not believe we have the wherewithal to achieve them. We seem to prefer to self-destruct. It is a failing that is costing us our future as a species. Unfortunately, we are taking the planet with us.

Regards,
V.I.

No.  We do NOT prefer to "Self-destruct."  The psychopaths have pushed many to a f%^&-it position.  In desperation, with a sense of helplessness against the evil the psychopaths have wrought, many choose to "go with the flow," rather than fight it.  But with the communication of the Interweb, We are finding Our voice, discovering Our power, coming together, and making a difference.

If what You say is true, then the US would have moved into Syria and started a war there, too.  But We expressed vast outrage and Our voices made a difference and They knew They could not effectively pull THAT psyop off to the end result They were working towards.

Perhaps You have seen mostly these f%^&-it People?

Quote from: petrus4 on August 18, 2014, 06:58:00 PM
No, I don't.  My position at this point is probably closer to one of cognitive dissonance, truth be told; or holding two opinions simultaneously.  I am well aware of the fact that there is a very strong degree of likelihood that we will become extinct.

I think the immediate future holds one of two possibilities.

a}  We become extinct.  Not much more really needs to be said, there.

b}  We do not become extinct, but we go sufficiently close to it, that the resulting trauma convinces us to make the necessary changes, which would allow the creation of a better society.  This is truthfully why in a way, seeing the situation in Ferguson makes me feel more optimistic than I have in quite some time.

I am aware that it is going to get much, much worse before it gets better; which is actually why I feel considerable enthusiasm towards the idea that it is now truly beginning to get worse.  I believe that America is going to experience a complete re-enactment of Nazi Germany, complete with concentration camps; and that it is further going to be infinitely worse than WW2 was.

I want the world to descend into absolute Hell.  I want humanity to literally feel the very breath of extinction on the back of our necks.  The reason why, is because in order for the pendulum to swing as far back as I want it to in the opposite direction, it is going to need to be pushed as far as it can in the dystopic/fascist direction first.

Man must have his fill of fascism.  Man must have fascism until he is utterly sick of it.  Man must have war to the point where he is either permanently convinced of its' horror, and makes a literally genetic decision to never partake of it again, or becomes extinct in the process.

There is no other way.  If we will not learn decent ethics by their observation, then let us learn them by their violation.  It was said during the making of the film The Ten Commandments, that Man never truly breaks the Law; he merely breaks himself against it.

The sooner we go through this, the sooner we can get past it; but unfortunately, we are going to have to go through it first.

Well, many of Us have had Our fill.  I DON'T think We "need" any more.  I say We have gone through plenty enough.  I want a revolution in ideas, not blood.

This reply deleted/moved to separate OP for appropriate presentation.
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7202.msg100550;topicseen#new

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJmEjrxvqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJmEjrxvqs

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 18, 2014, 09:24:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJmEjrxvqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJmEjrxvqs

Why does this post have a different subject, but is posted as a reply in this OP?? Shouldn't this be a different OP??

Not necessarily, rdunk.  You may note when You post that You have the option of changing the title.  And so I did.

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 18, 2014, 09:56:13 PM
Not necessarily, rdunk.  You may note when You post that You have the option of changing the title.  And so I did.

While, it may be within digital action to change the subject of an OP one is replying to, I suggest it to be an inappropriate use of capability, and "potentially" quite offensive to the Original Poster when done. Just a thought for consideration. I actually just deleted my prior reply and reposted it, so it doesn't get overcome with the off the wall accusations of your new subject. So, all is well!

Well IF this is back on topic then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A

:P

Quote from: rdunk on August 18, 2014, 10:18:34 PM
While, it may be within digital action to change the subject of an OP one is replying to, I suggest it to be an inappropriate use of capability, and "potentially" quite offensive to the Original Poster when done. Just a thought for consideration. I actually just deleted my prior reply and reposted it, so it doesn't get overcome with the off the wall accusations of your new subject. So, all is well!

[shrug]  Seen many Others do it (z included) and have done it innumerable time M'self with no issues.  Is it now verboten?  Will I be banned if I do it again?

Quote from: Ellirium113 on August 18, 2014, 10:31:38 PM
Well IF this is back on topic then:

Just a few minutes of this idiot was more than I could stomach.  >:(

Well. rdunk...  That tells Me quite a bit about You.  [smile]

Me?  I loved it and agree with all it put forth.

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 19, 2014, 12:30:20 AM
Well. rdunk...  That tells Me quite a bit about You.  [smile]

Me?  I loved it and agree with all it put forth.

Anyone who accepts what this guys says, as fact, is most obviously easily deluded!

Aside from the fact that what He said (in a humorous way) I have read on news sites (including some of it in the MSM) and did not learn any new details, I enjoyed the thoughts and attitudes He offered about the facts.

[shrug]

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 18, 2014, 08:50:10 PM
Well, many of Us have had Our fill.  I DON'T think We "need" any more.  I say We have gone through plenty enough.  I want a revolution in ideas, not blood.

You have, Amy.  I have as well.  But most?  If most of us are already tired of it, then why is it continuing?  We are allowing it to.

I say it is not that We're "allowing" it so much as most have no idea what to DO about it.  They lie and most don't know, being indoctrinated from birth into the Disney facade.  Of Those who have awakened, few have plans, and many conflict with vested interests which can pay to suppress, much as They pay to suppress free energy.  Most really don't see much choice other than to keep on keeping on.

Lest You missed it there is a war on for Our minds...  [smile]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

This link will tell you the condition of the police officer and the beating he took before he fired his weapon.  In our training we have to look at the totality of the circumstances when force is used and this decision has to be made sometimes in a manner of seconds.  A decision in a matter of mere seconds that lawyers will look at for years.  Totality of circumstances:  The size of the officer versus the size of the suspect or assailant.  Mr. Brown was much larger than officer Wilson and literally was beating on the officer  inside the vehicle through the window.  In the article the injuries to the officer are told to us.

If you are in your police cruiser whether belted in or not it is hard to get any leverage for physical hand to hand combat.  Even if the officer had a Taser...could he reach it while trying to hold off Mr. Brown?  The officer is at a distinct disadvantage being in the vehicle and fighting...(fight or flight syndrome kicks in at this point).  This Mr. Brown has now committed a forcible felony and not only is he a danger to the officer but becomes a danger to all others around.  (This is a key you need to look at)  When Mr. Brown runs he is now a fleeing felon who has committed an aggravated battery on a law enforcement officer and now presents a danger to others.  Look at the following case yourself and you will find that what he the officer did was proper.  A case that set a precedent was Tennessee Verses Garner regarding use of force on a fleeing felon here in the US.

1.  Officer attempted to stop Mr. Brown because Mr. Brown and Mr. Johnson were obstructing traffic.

2.  Mr. Brown and Mr. Johnson would not listen to the officer's commands to get out of the road.

3.  Mr. Brown gets into possible verbal argument with the officer and then physically commits a battery on the officer. (Battery on a law enforcement officer) forcible felony now....

4.  Mr. Brown continues to beat on the officer (which is smaller in stature and in his vehicle...disadvantage to the officer) and officers fight or flight syndrome kicks in...

5.  When Mr. Brown disengages and takes off from a forcible felony he is considered a danger to those around him and must be stopped and can legally be shot for he has not only committed a forcible felony but is now a danger to others (Tennesee vs. Garner)

6.  Officer when shooting must consider his back stop (what's in the line of fire behind suspect) and take the shot weighing all these issues in just a few seconds.

7.  This now has to be called in via radio if he or she has not done so already.

8.  It now becomes a crime scene which must be protected and preserved until other officers arrive to assist.  Hopefully he or she has pushed the emergency button on the radio indicating they need help.  Pushing this button activates the microphone (hands free) so he can holler for help.

Now do you see the TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES?

All this done in just a couple of minutes which seems like an eternity in a fight.  I have been there through this training and have been in situation in the jail environment where there was no firearms involved and you have to use your wits and your mitts to take down someone trying to hurt or kill you.  I have seen and felt my adrenalin dump and the fight or flight syndrome.  I remember the larger individuals we had to fight using whatever we were taught.  Try taking on someone full of PCP...we did and it took 7 of us to take down 1 smaller person due to incredible chemically induced strength.

The training for these types of scenarios happens on a regular basis.  In a situation such as this we are trained to continue to engage using force until the person is no longer a threat.  This officer was in a fight where he felt threatened by being beat upon by a much larger person who got the advantage on him...do you see the picture here?

This is the training we go through.  A couple of minutes in a fight seems like an eternity when your life is in the balance.  I have found by working law enforcement and armed security that the criminals or wannabes are better armed than us in a lot of circumstances.  Hence the need for our special units.

Just thought you would like to know about the training and the split second decisions being made by officers out in the "hood" so to speak.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 18, 2014, 02:27:07 PM
I respect your ideas, but I do not believe we have the wherewithal to achieve them. We seem to prefer to self-destruct. It is a failing that is costing us our future as a species. Unfortunately, we are taking the planet with us.

Nah the planet is fine... Ma Earth has time on her side to clean things up.

But THIS picture proves your other point

(https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10805732_10203178539253075_1735410458147520209_n.jpg?oh=2abdd92c442ef3697b46f44d16cbfbf8&oe=551E6D64)

(https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10430452_902436673149796_8040389764781342203_n.jpg?oh=27837d60f01299388db112f2376bb57e&oe=551B1890)

Quote from: rdunk on August 19, 2014, 03:23:23 AM
Anyone who accepts what this guys says, as fact, is most obviously easily deluded!

Says he who thinks he's found 'aliens' on the moon and mars..

Maveric,

I fail to see the totality of the situation.

Brown assualted an officer - so bleddy what, that risk comes hand in hand with the job.

The one with murderous tendancies is quite obviouusly the one who commited the act of murder, I.e, the 'officer'.

So Sinny, if on one unfortunate evening, you find yourself being attacked and you defend yourself as best you can and end up killing your attacker, you have murderous tendancies?    ::)

Quote from: Sinny on December 03, 2014, 11:25:19 AM

Brown assualted an officer - so bleddy what, that risk comes hand in hand with the job.

The one with murderous tendancies is quite obviouusly the one who commited the act of murder, I.e, the 'officer'.

So you're saying its ok to assault an officer because that risk comes with the job, and when said officer reacts to that assault in SELF DEFENSE its murder?

Wow thats a ridiculous logic

Killing someone in self defense is not murder

Whats the risk involved in attacking an officer? Getting shot!

Quote from: Sinny on December 03, 2014, 11:25:19 AM
Maveric,

I fail to see the totality of the situation.

Brown assualted an officer - so bleddy what, that risk comes hand in hand with the job.

The one with murderous tendancies is quite obviouusly the one who commited the act of murder, I.e, the 'officer'.

You would see the totality of the situation if you were in the officers place.

Quote from: spacemaverick on December 03, 2014, 02:58:32 PM
You would see the totality of the situation if you were in the officers place.

I am firmly on the side of the police, in the case of Ferguson.  This may sound strange, given how much dislike of them I usually express around here.  I did, however, hear about Wilson's injuries; injuries of that magnitude do not occur on their own.

There is total abdication of personal responsibility here, on the part of the black community.  There is the desire for complete immunity, to commit any crime they wish.  If anyone objects to their criminality, they accuse the objector of being a racist, and begin engaging in emotional manipulation, and making excuses for the crime.

I want no more defense of the indefensible.  I want no more excuses made, for things for which there is no excuse.  The activist Left do this continually, and I am tired of it.

Quote from: Payton on December 03, 2014, 01:48:14 PM
So you're saying its ok to assault an officer because that risk comes with the job, and when said officer reacts to that assault in SELF DEFENSE its murder?

Wow thats a ridiculous logic

Killing someone in self defense is not murder

It is you with the 'ridiculous' logic - I didn't state ANYTHING was okay.

(keep having to dodge all these assumptions on this forum)

QuoteWhats the risk involved in attacking an officer? Getting shot!

True.

But that does not detract from my point that the ONLY murderer out of the TWO, is still alive ;)

Quote from: spacemaverick on December 03, 2014, 02:58:32 PM
You would see the totality of the situation if you were in the officers place.

I doubt it.

If the officer felt he was 'too small' (and he probably is in some regards  8) ) to handle the BRUTE - then maybe he should have steered clear out the way, and let the big boys take care of it - without the bullets!

The only thing that is 'TOTAL' from this situation, is one dead man.

Quote from: petrus4 on December 03, 2014, 03:10:49 PM
I am firmly on the side of the police, in the case of Ferguson.  This may sound strange, given how much dislike of them I usually express around here.  I did, however, hear about Wilson's injuries; injuries of that magnitude do not occur on their own.

There is total abdication of personal responsibility here, on the part of the black community.  There is the desire for complete immunity, to commit any crime they wish.  If anyone objects to their criminality, they accuse the objector of being a racist, and begin engaging in emotional manipulation, and making excuses for the crime.

I want no more defense of the indefensible.  I want no more excuses made, for things for which there is no excuse.  The activist Left do this continually, and I am tired of it.

Whheyy, I remain standing - the last defender of the sanctity of life.

;D

Quote from: WarToad on December 03, 2014, 01:23:39 PM
So Sinny, if on one unfortunate evening, you find yourself being attacked and you defend yourself as best you can and end up killing your attacker, you have murderous tendancies?    ::)

Well, lets say I strangle him in self defence - nope, I won fair and square.

Lets say I pull a gun on the unarmed individual - yep - that makes me a murderer.

Its really not that hard to understand guys...

Quote from: petrus4 on December 03, 2014, 03:10:49 PM
I am firmly on the side of the police, in the case of Ferguson.  This may sound strange, given how much dislike of them I usually express around here.  I did, however, hear about Wilson's injuries; injuries of that magnitude do not occur on their own.

There is total abdication of personal responsibility here, on the part of the black community.  There is the desire for complete immunity, to commit any crime they wish.  If anyone objects to their criminality, they accuse the objector of being a racist, and begin engaging in emotional manipulation, and making excuses for the crime.

I want no more defense of the indefensible.  I want no more excuses made, for things for which there is no excuse.  The activist Left do this continually, and I am tired of it.

I judge an individual on their individual merit - not the merit of their Race/Ethnicity.

By your standard Petrus, all white man destroy/rape/pillage/rob........ 

Quote from: Sinny on December 03, 2014, 04:41:14 PM

I judge an individual on their individual merit - not the merit of their Race/Ethnicity.

By your standard Petrus, all white man destroy/rape/pillage/rob........

I am not claiming that all members of any given ethnic group commit crimes.  I am also, however, not claiming that all members of any given ethnic group are completely and exclusively innocent.

Quote from: Sinny on December 03, 2014, 04:31:47 PM
It is you with the 'ridiculous' logic - I didn't state ANYTHING was okay.

(keep having to dodge all these assumptions on this forum)


True.

But that does not detract from my point that the ONLY murderer out of the TWO, is still alive ;)

You said "so bleedy what" which is another way of saying who cares, obviously the officer cared and so would you if a guy of browns size attacked you in that manner. I did stretch it a bit by saying its ok

You dont wait to find out if someone is gonna kill you in a situation like that because you may end up the dead one. In other words what else are you suppose to do in a situation where you fear for your life and only have a gun? Just wait to find out if he kills you or not first? No thats ridiculous

You also keep you using the words murder and murderer, once again ill say that killing in self defense does not make a person a murderer

Well at least the Bakery that got looted made bank!
Natalie's Cakes and More Fund

Target was to raise $20,000

Reached $267,709 of 20k Raised by 8,239 people in 8 days

http://www.gofundme.com/nataliescakesnmore

Quote from: Payton on December 03, 2014, 05:26:28 PM
You said "so bleedy what" which is another way of saying who cares, obviously the officer cared and so would you if a guy of browns size attacked you in that manner. I did stretch it a bit by saying its ok

You dont wait to find out if someone is gonna kill you in a situation like that because you may end up the dead one. In other words what else are you suppose to do in a situation where you fear for your life and only have a gun? Just wait to find out if he kills you or not first? No thats ridiculous

You also keep you using the words murder and murderer, once again ill say that killing in self defense does not make a person a murderer

And once again I'll state that if you are armed with a lethal weapon and the other is not, that's murder.

Quote from: Sinny on December 05, 2014, 09:21:26 PM
And once again I'll state that if you are armed with a lethal weapon and the other is not, that's murder.

Doesn't lethal stupidity count?  :P

Quote from: Sinny on December 05, 2014, 09:21:26 PM
And once again I'll state that if you are armed with a lethal weapon and the other is not, that's murder.

The official term in the USA is JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE

Murder requires INTENT

And if you fight with someone and kill them we call it Manslaughter... because you didn't really MEAN to kill him  :P

Quote from: zorgon on December 06, 2014, 12:03:48 AM
The official term in the USA is JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE

Murder requires INTENT

And if you fight with someone and kill them we call it Manslaughter... because you didn't really MEAN to kill him  :P

Bingo Zorgon...that is true.

1.   Homicide - the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.

2.   JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE. That which is committed with the intention to kill, or to do a grievous bodily injury, under circumstances which the law holds sufficient to exculpate the person who commits it.

3.   Manslaughter - The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEvZBKwvE0k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEvZBKwvE0k

What is a policeman?

Quote from: spacemaverick on December 06, 2014, 07:09:46 AM
What is a policeman?

THIS is a Policeman

(http://0.tqn.com/y/criminologycareers/1/W/C/1/-/-/200203837-001_HighRes-Cropped.jpg)

THIS is a Policeman

(http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/nypd-cop-helps-old-woman-across-street__oPt.jpg)

THIS is a THUG 

(http://www.jewlicious.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Danish-Police-Beat-Protester.jpg)

THIS is a Thug

(http://www.nevilleklaric.com/cop.jpg)

THIS is an animal

(http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/07/04/eba42b8b-a449-49d9-b3b0-5cb73faeb88e/thumbnail/940x470/42f5b356da229e3b4a1b6c7a31a3b8ec/web0704copbeatswoman249542640x360.jpg)

THIS is what happens when you don't surrender your home in Henderson so they can watch your neighbor out of the heat

(http://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/swat.jpg)

THIS is a Policeman wirh a Police Car

(http://www.allpar.com/photos/dodge/charger/police/2012.jpg)

THIS is what they parked on my neighbors lawn pointing the cannon at the front door for a domestic despute

(http://mnchange.org/images/82.jpg)

The scene kinda looked like THIS

(http://www.psiopradio.com/wp-content/uploads/Oak-Forest-SWAT.jpg)

THIS is a BLM Ranger

(http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/codyenterprise.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/da/eda3c0cc-50a1-11e3-93fb-0019bb2963f4/528a96d07d80c.image.gif)

THESE are typical BLM Officers

(http://www.krtv.com/images/glasgowofficers.jpg)

THIS is a BLM agent at Burning Man in Nevada   

(http://burnersxxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/blm-ranger-burning-man-mark-turney.jpg)

I met many of them at John's mine in Gold Butte... they were very polite pleasant people.  Usually older with young apprentesses in tow

(http://www.adventure-journal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/adventure-journal-gold-butte-nevada.jpg)

THIS is NOT a regular BLM Ranger

(http://aattp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Untitled-2-Recovered17.jpg)

THESE are not Regular BLM Officers

(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/04/11/1226880/626569-a8945230-c0fe-11e3-ab5c-db8d2f3f624e.jpg)

THESE are not Regular BLM Officers

(http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/21WIRE-09-BLM-Bundy-April-12-14-GMN-Copyright.jpg)

THIS is a Sheriff...  A Sheriff's Job is to protect "We the People..." from government goons

(http://ycclegalsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/MackBanner51-940x412.jpg)

"One of our CSPOA (Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association, which Mack founded) members who was there earlier and got there before I did was phoning me and telling me that they were going to be killed. The federal snipers, several of them -- I don't know if you know this -- but they were paid mercenaries. They're contractors. They're paid hit men." -  Richard Mack

THIS is the Militia... guaranteed in the constitution

(http://shariaunveiled.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/u-s-militia-3.jpg)

LOVE LOST: Special Agent Dan Love realizing that BLM have painted themselves into a corner. (at least HE looks like a BLM guy :D )

(http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/21WIREt-Bundy-Fed-Standoff-April-12-2014-Copyright-GMN1.jpg)

That answer your question about what a POLICEMAN is?

::)

Quote from: zorgon on December 06, 2014, 08:46:44 AM
That answer your question about what a POLICEMAN is?

::)

That sums it up pretty good Zorgon!   :) :) :)