Pegasus Research Consortium

LIVE from Ferguson, MO...Police Advancing on Protestors, Media (http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930)

Some of the commenters are saying it's fake.  I dunno.  Could have been staged, but maybe not...  Who knows.  Either way, the police are choosing very poor behavior.

Currently watching this.  The Orcish rage is flowing, in a warm torrent throughout my entire upper body.  I haven't been this angry in a long time.

This gets an OMG what is going on down there?

Actualy got to watch this terror on the streets. There was no reason for using Military style weapons on them. They should have sent in a talking team first with back up and ask them what's up. Like they used to.

Did you hear the part where they told the News to stop filming and put away their cameras. WHY?

Maybe the alpha groups were in there posting saying it was fake.

I can't believe how fast the comments were coming in . So fast you could not read more that a word or two from each person. The count was way over 16,000 when I left it. Wow, wish we had that here, Over 600 pages. But not for the reason on the video tape.

Quote from: deuem on August 14, 2014, 08:35:27 AM
Did you hear the part where they told the News to stop filming and put away their cameras. WHY?

I've got a pretty good idea of why.

Yeah, Petrus, I do too.  If *I* was told to put away My camera, I'd politely offer:  Screw You!  I have an inalienable right to record My perspective.

Check this out...

LIVE police scanner traffic

and

LIVE video

http://threepercenternation.com/2014/08/live-8-17-14-ferguson-riot-cam/


Radio traffic indicates lasers shot at the police helicopter at 2,200 feet...FAA alerted

"Protesters donning gas masks"

"Many people in and out of school...picking up info or weapons?"

Thanks Thor....placed live feed link on my Facebook page also.

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 14, 2014, 09:32:50 AM
Yeah, Petrus, I do too.  If *I* was told to put away My camera, I'd politely offer:  Screw You!  I have an inalienable right to record My perspective.

Just asking but...

...where is this right in writing?


::)

Quote from: zorgon on August 20, 2014, 07:59:03 AM
Just asking but...

...where is this right in writing?


::)

What?  Rights have to be written down to be valid?  But to answer the question, in My book.

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 20, 2014, 08:04:20 AM
What?  Rights have to be written down to be valid?  But to answer the question, in My book.

It's written some where surely?
You do have the right to record any public sace, me knows that much.

It varies from state to state about recording the police.

Quote from: zorgon on August 20, 2014, 07:59:03 AM
Just asking but...

...where is this right in writing?


::)

Probably in the same place where it says that people should follow police orders. :)

I recently watched a video about 2 supreme court verdicts saying WE have the RIGHT to video and record the police in public.

Quote from: Norval on August 20, 2014, 04:07:14 PM
I recently watched a video about 2 supreme court verdicts saying WE have the RIGHT to video and record the police in public.

I recall at least one of those court cases.

But there's caveat's to that.. Each state has it's own. Ie when it interferes with a police action, subduing a felon in the commission of a crime.. That's how they get around it.

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on August 20, 2014, 06:08:23 PM
But there's caveat's to that.. Each state has it's own. Ie when it interferes with a police action, subduing a felon in the commission of a crime.. That's how they get around it.

That is correct sarge...in our state its called obstruction if you interfere with an officer during their performance of a LAWFUL duty.  We had our own test case here in Brevard County Florida (they also had the video taken down from liveleak) where the citizen had recorded a traffic stop (no interference by the citizen)...charges were dropped and his iphone that the deputy knocked out of his hand was replaced by the department.  The person being stopped was his wife who had called him about the stop.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/supreme-court-recording-police_n_2201016.html

Here was our test case in my county

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2013/12/30/brevard-detective-brian-stoll-reprimanded-internal-affairs-arrest-pinac-editor/

PINAC -Photography Is Not a Crime

Quote from: ArMaP on August 20, 2014, 01:53:43 PM
Probably in the same place where it says that people should follow police orders. :)

You just got gold from Me.  [smile]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/us/ferguson-column-police-reaction/index.html?c=mobile-homepage-t

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta9FyoA7TU

Anonymous: Audio Tapes (St. Louis Dispatch) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta9FyoA7TU)

Published on Aug 13, 2014

We are Anonymous.

These files compiled in this video contains audio of St. Louis police dispatch from the date of August 9th 2014, the day Mike Brown was murdered by a Ferguson PD officer.

We have released these tapes to the public so as they are able to get a sense of the atmosphere the moments before and the hours after Mike Brown was shot.

These raw audio files have been compiled and long quiet moments have been cut down. Time stamps are available within the video.

Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/theanonaudio/fergusontapes??Incident begins at around noon...(9:08 time stamp)

ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DISPATCH AUDIO TAPES, AUGUST 9TH 2014 11:05 AM - 6:05 PM, INCIDENT IS REPORTED AS "CROWD CONTROL PROBLEM" AT 12:05PM, NO SHOOTING MENTIONED UNTIL IT IS CALLED IN TO DISPATCH BY WITNESS. FERGUSON PD DENIES IT KNEW ANYTHING AT THAT TIME. NO EMS WAS CALLED.

EXCERPTS:
??9:35: "Ferguson is asking for assistance with crowd control . . ."
10:58: "Now they have a large group gathering there, she doesn't know any further. . ."
11:20: "We just got another call stating it was an officer-involved shooting . . ."
11:30: "Be advised, this information came from the news . . ."
11:55: "We're just getting information from the news and we just called Ferguson back again and they don't know anything about it . . ."
20:00: ". . .destruction of property . . ."
21:55: "They are requesting more cars. Do you want me to send more of your cars?"
43:55: "Attention all cars, be advised that in reference to the call 2947 Canfield Drive, we are switching over to the riot channel at this time . . ."

Follow @TheAnonMessage
and @OpFerguson on Twitter
for immediate updates: #OpFerguson

Published on Aug 13, 2014

Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrPolarbear
Inside Anonymous Twitter: https://twitter.com/InsideAnon

??Recorded Via Livestream from Ferguson;? Ferguson riot police fire rubber bullets and tear gas canisters into peaceful protest and local neighborhood, no crimes have been committed and the only violence that occurred was after police started firing into the crowd.

This attack was unprovoked.

??This is part 2 after they had fired tear gas & rubber bullets into the crowd and the crowd had moved down almost 2 city blocks from the original protest location.

The crowd of course gets upset.

An angry city that wants answers turns into a war zone from police action.

What does a police state look like?

This is what a police state looks like!

Livestream was recorded LIVE from: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930





Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon on Saturday declared a state of emergency and implemented a midnight to 5 a.m. curfew in Ferguson, where the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager sparked a week of protests and sporadic looting.

?"I'm committed to making sure the forces of peace and justice prevail," Nixon said at a community meeting. "If we're going to achieve justice we first must have and maintain peace."

But the meeting at a local church at times was tumultuous.

People repeatedly interrupted Nixon and Missouri State Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson, shouting, "You need to charge the police with murder!" and "We want justice!"

Johnson, in charge of security for the town, said the investigation is speeding up.

He said some 40 FBI agents arrived in Ferguson on Saturday morning, going door-to-door to investigate the fatal shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown by officer Darren Wilson a week ago.

Looting, tensions dash peace in Ferguson Protesters, police standoff in Ferguson Friend of Darren Wilson: 'He was scared'.

Johnson praised local citizens who tried to stop the looting of several businesses early Saturday and said law enforcement would not be heavy-handed in enforcing the curfew.

"We won't enforce it with trucks, we won't enforce it with tear gas," he said.

The fragile peace shattered in Ferguson earlier in the day when looters again targeted neighborhood businesses while law enforcement in riot gear largely looked on without intervening.

Some protesters tried to stop the looting, at times standing in front of one convenience store and preventing others from doing more damage. Police, criticized days earlier for being too aggressive with protesters, now drew the ire of merchants who told CNN they weren't doing enough.

"You still have a job to do now, and now you're not doing your job," Tanya Littleton said of police after thieves broke into her beauty supply shop in the St. Louis suburb and made off with bags of hair extensions worth hundreds of dollars.

The city was more at peace Saturday afternoon as protesters marked the week that's passed after the white police officer shot and killed Brown.

At noon Saturday -- the hour that police say Wilson shot Brown a week earlier -- protesters outside the Ferguson police station silently raised their arms into the air, mimicking Brown's purported actions right before he died.

Days of angry protests followed witnesses' accounts that Brown did nothing to provoke the shooting, and that at one point he raised his hands in surrender.

Yawn.....zzzzzz 8)

pics and vids at each link..but probably no one will look because they want to believe that there is only a dark side when there are always two sides

this is my sharing - to  counter  to the doom porn



http://www.ksdk.com/news/

Pastors team up to provide positive place for Ferguson kids
FERGUSON, Mo. - The bond between two pastors is a bright spot during the darkness in Ferguson. The pair, one black and one white, are trying to bridge the gap.

They've been friends for seven years and have teamed up to provide health play time for students in Ferguson after school was canceled due to violence in the area.

"Our task is to meet needs at the time they exist with an unconditional love," Willis Johnson said.

"One of the things that Ferguson is exposing is there are a lot of people that want to do something but there is no relationship," Matt Miofsky said. "It can be a burden but it is also a distinct privilege. I think it is important that as we model and witness as we are who we are."

"God calls us to be reconcilers at bridging what is divided and put things back together," Miofsky said.

The two said students responded positively to the experience.

.......................................................

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/12/volunteers-sending-a-positive-message-by-cleaning-up-ferguson/

Volunteers sending a positive message by cleaning up Ferguson
Posted 5:53 pm, August 12, 2014, by Chris Higgins

FERGUSON, MO (KTVI) – Amid the boarded up buildings there some positive signs in Ferguson Tuesday. People of all ages have come together to start moving Ferguson forward.

Like many in this community, Erica Hampton is outraged by what happened in Ferguson these past few days.

"I'm all for justice and I want justice to prevail, don't get me wrong.  But it's the way you go about it." said Erica Hampton.

She wants people to know there is still plenty of a good in this community, despite the graphic images they've seen on TV.

"I had to teach my son that this is just not what we do.  When we want to get something done, we do it right.  It's not about destroying.." said Erica Hampton.

For Hampton and her friends, it's about respect. soon after the looting ended, she posted to Facebook, asking for volunteers to clean-up.

"This young girl and her boyfriend.  They started and joined in and then we got three other guys to help.  And then we got a couple." said Erica Hampton.

From there, others joined in. For this small group of volunteers, how much they were able to clean up was not as important as the message they wanted to send.

"We've got to start somewhere.  As long as you start somewhere.  That's the beginning.  You've got a lot people who want to follow through and do the same thing. You just gotta start somewhere on a positive note." said Reggie Harris.

"We just trying to let everyone know and show everybody that we can do this in a positive way, keep our community clean.  If we're going to do it together without destroying our community." said Eric Hampton.

Hampton wanted to send out a special thanks to a crew from Home Depot who stopped by to drop off some water for the workers. Speaking of volunteers, there is another group coming together Wednesday at 10am.

They will be gathering at first Baptist Church of Ferguson in the parking lot.  From there they will pray and then head out to local shopping malls that were damaged to help with clean-up.

................................



http://bluenationreview.com/lets-forget-fergusons-residents/
Out of Great Tragedy, Something Positive for Ferguson Residents
2 days ago | by Natasha Smith

Tragic doesn't come close to accurately describing the events in Ferguson, Missouri.

The media (well, some of the media) is doing a fantastic job of letting us know what is actually happening on the ground.  We've told you about what's happening there.

The only ray of light this entire debacle has been the people of Ferguson.



........................................................

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/20/ferguson-teachers-volunteer_n_5695479.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics





These Are Some Of The Inspiring Things Ferguson Teachers Are Doing While School Is Postponed
The Huffington Post  | By Rebecca Klein


Posted: 08/20/2014 3:50 pm EDT Updated: 08/20/2014 3:59 pm EDT

Chaotic protests in Ferguson, Missouri, may be keeping local children out of school this week, but educators are still trying to turn the situation into a teachable moment.

The racially charged protests entered their 11th day on Wednesday, following the fatal shooting of unarmed black teen Michael Brown by police officer Darren Wilson on Aug. 9. Since then, there have been dozens of arrests and numerous confrontations between protesters and police.

As a result, the first day of school has been delayed more than a week for the Ferguson-Florissant School District, until next Monday. Other districts that surround Ferguson, like Jennings School District and Riverview Gardens, also closed schools for Monday and Tuesday of this week.

But local teachers aren't taking this an opportunity to extend their summer vacation. Instead, they're taking steps to uplift their students and community -- albeit outside the traditional confines of their classrooms. Here are some of the things they're doing:

1. They're Volunteering

On Tuesday, hundreds of educators took to the Ferguson streets to clean up debris left over from days of protest, according to the St. Louis Post-Dipsatch.

"We're building up the community," Tiffany Anderson, the Jennings School District superintendent, told NPR. "Kids are facing challenges. This is unusual, but violence, when you have over 90 percent free and reduced lunch, is not unusual. ... Last week, I met with several high school students, some of whom who are out here helping clean up. And we talked a little bit about how you express and have a voice in positive ways."

Pictures on Twitter show the scene:


2. They're Teaching

School is out for many Ferguson students, but teachers are still holding classes at local public libraries. On Tuesday, teachers stood outside of Ferguson Public Library holding signs that said "here to teach" and "students welcome." Inside the library, teachers helped students with reading, science, art and math.

"We're trying to provide a positive and productive place for students," said Ferguson-Florissant art teacher Carrie Pace to local outlet the Riverfront Times. "A place for them to come and do something educational and meet up with other students."

One 16-year-old student, Derrick Washington, came to the library to help tutor students younger than him, like his brother. He spoke with Huffington Post reporter Ryan J. Reilly about the experience.

"While they're not in school, I can help them get ready for school," said Washington, who is a high school student in the Ferguson-Florissant district. "Keep them in line ... keep them from getting in trouble."

Pace told the Riverfront Times that teachers would also be at the library on Wednesday, but were looking for volunteers for Thursday and Friday, including parents or retired teachers, as Ferguson-Florissant staff must attend professional development sessions during those days.

Volunteer Kathy Bisch, a teacher on sabbatical, told HuffPost she saw on the news that teachers were looking for volunteers.

"The kids are eager to be here and eager to learn," she said. "I pulled out math activities first thing this morning, and we had to pull them away from them at 10 o'clock so we could switch gears. So they're ready to get into action."

Pictures below show the dedicated educators:

3. They're Making Sure Students Don't Go Hungry

Because many low-income Ferguson children rely on meals provided by schools for sustenance, days without school can leave some students hungry. As a result, some closed schools are providing lunches to students in need, or opening up their cafeterias, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

"School is still thinking about you," parent Chavonne Robinson told the outlet. Robinson brought her three sons to a school that had an open cafeteria for lunch. "It's thinking about us, the whole family."

An educator across the country has also chipped in to feed hungry Ferguson children. Educator Julianna Mendelsohn from North Carolina launched a Feed the Students of Ferguson campaign Aug. 14 to raise money for the St. Louis Foodbank. As of Wednesday morning, the campaign had raised more than $130,000.

"When I found out school had been canceled for several days as a result of the civil unrest, I immediately became worried for the students in households with food instability," Mendelsohn wrote on the Fundly.com fundraising page. "Many children in the U.S. eat their only meals of the day, breakfast and lunch, at school. With school out, kids are undoubtedly going hungry."

Ryan J. Reilly contributed reporting.

Good for you sky.....gold for ya.  Striking the balance.  There are good people getting hurt by a small group of others.  Communities as a whole in dark hours will prevail in the end.  I firmly believe that.

For me, the only "dark side" to this is the artificial make believe trumped-up fabricated side that some try to make of most every activity that takes place in our country - Trevon Martin all over again - I am referring to the actual police activity that was necessitated by the actions of Brown, who ended up being shot by police............for very good reasons!

Our real problem are all of those like our gov'ment and blacks and others from all over the country that try to make it a racial thing, when it is not - now trying to make it for more leftist votes in November. And to do that, they will try to drag this out on into October at least.  :o

Well, rdunk, if You think that this isn't a staged event, with People deliberately brought in to "escalate" things, paid to riot and throw Molotov cocktails, You have missed a whole lot of the problem/reaction/solution Some have been creating on this planet to cinch Their control.

You go ahead and believe there is nothing deeper going on than the surface crap They're feeding the mainstream media eaters.  You're completely right.   ::)

I thought you were a Christian rdunk - obviously I'm mistaken...

"Murdered for good reason"

Pshht.

I would like to encourage anyone interested here, to watch the below video from Stefan Molyneux, concerning the situation in Ferguson.  While I would not describe things in quite the same manner as Rdunk has, according to Stefan at least, it seems that the police officer in question genuinely was acting in self-defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pr1oE34bIM

If there is one thing that Ferguson has demonstrated to me, it is that police brutality and militarisation notwithstanding, a genuine problem does also exist within the black community.  As I have said before, African Americans can kill each other in any number, and the civil rights movement will remain silent; but the only time when rioting occurs, or when the civil rights movement manifests, is when the killer of a black person is white.

This has also led me to consider the disturbing possibility that the high black incarceration rate, may in fact not be due exclusively to white racism, as we are generally led to believe.  This is, of course, a deeply taboo idea; but one which I think must be seriously considered.

I am not saying for one moment, that racially motivated abuse of blacks by whites does not occur; it absolutely does.  The Rodney King case was probably the highest profile incident which demonstrated that.  Still, even when considering that, and again, the genuine police militarisation issue, it is my hope that the black community are willing to accept responsibility for Ferguson, if it turns out that this officer was acting in legitimate self-defense.

Self defense MY ARSE.

Defending one's self includes BUSTIN SOME KNEE CAPS - NOT BLOWIN SOME BRAINS.

Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2014, 09:56:35 AM
Self defense MY ARSE.

Defending one's self includes BUSTIN SOME KNEE CAPS - NOT BLOWIN SOME BRAINS.

Do you know about the orbital blowout fracture that the cop took before he fired, Sinny?  It's a very serious injury.  That didn't come from nowhere.

Again, I'm not trying to say that one side or the other are exclusively innocent or guilty; but there is more than meets the eye, here.

When you sign up for the police, it's like sgning up for the army - there is risk involved, and they accept that risk of harm at the point of making their oath.

Ah yes....I'm going to let a 300lb 6'-4" man beat the crap outta me and try and fail to take my weapon..(all felonies btw & easily grounds for shooting)...and then charge me again to do bodily harm to me...lets see.... ::)...ok,,,,I'm channeling my best Steven Segal personna and just like in the movies, I render the attacker with my matrix like moves and slow mo strikes, harmless and helpless...... ::)

I've had to defend myself before, had guns stuck in my face...told I was going to be killed if i moved....been shot at....all NOT fun....it's a different situation in real life.

Unless your on a forum, yapping about 'murder'....

Said my piece...back to work.....

8)
Rock.....

I'll try to make sense of your incoherant post..

And reiterate my initial points of:

1) Police signed up for a potentially dangerous job. Danger and possible harm are to be expected.
2) You can shoot to wound rather than kill.
3) Brown was murdered either way you look at it.

Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2014, 10:40:26 AM
When you sign up for the police, it's like sgning up for the army - there is risk involved, and they accept that risk of harm at the point of making their oath.

When you decided to go against the law you should also know that there are risks involved. :)

Said like a true dictator ArMap.

Quote from: ArMaP on August 21, 2014, 02:19:51 PM
When you decided to go against the law you should also know that there are risks involved. :)

G O L D

A huge Facepalm - on behalf of the civilised world.

Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2014, 04:38:55 PM
A huge Facepalm - on behalf of the civilised world.

The civilized world recognizes laws are necessary to maintain order and follows them.

Please let me chime in here.  Having the background in law enforcement...please look at the training we go through.  I also included my opinion from a professional standpoint.  All of us who are serving or have served basically go through the same training and laws.  I put my opinion on the other Ferguson thread here:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7173.105

I actually go through the totality of the circumstances and apply the training that we all have received.  This training is a continual training so that an officer can keep their skills honed so they can survive.  I am not the ever loving end as an expert but have been through both law enforcement and corrections training.  The first thing that happens because of continual training is that the officers respond how they have been trained.  That is one of the keys to this situation.  My son who was a police officer and now a police contractor / adviser overseas...have sat down and discussed this and both of us agree.  A key factor here is "response to training."

And let me throw this in...in my community we have spots where the criminals (a smaller element than the population) control the area with better weapons than the officers have in their possession.  (this is changing).  I now work armed security since retiring from the sheriff's department.  Not much difference between where I live and Ferguson.

Take the race card out of it and what do you have?  Two tragedies is what is there.  Mr. Brown which is a product of a new generation and the influences from his neighborhood who is now deceased.  Tragedy for his family.  And the police officer who had to take a life and now his life and that of his family will never be the same.  He responded to the situation how he was trained.

For those who do not understand...take a ride along with one of your locals and find out what dangers they encounter on a daily basis wondering if they will go home tonight.  There are bad apples in the police departments because people are not perfect and some get past the hiring process.  Before I even put on the uniform I had to go through polygraph, psychological evaluation, general knowledge tests, law enforcement academy, corrections academy and then take state exams on what I had learned.  Then you receive training in the field through 3 or 4 phases having to pass each phase before moving on to the next phase.  Anywhere along the line you can be washed out.  Then that is followed by 1 year of probation where you can actually be fired at anytime if you do not measure up to standards.

Please go to the above link I have provided to see my opinion based on my training, education and experience...might help you to understand better.  Also maybe this thread and that thread could be merged (IMHO) because the information in both seems to run along the same lines.  Thank you.

What ever happened to non-lethal force? Where are the tasers? traded in for 9mm & AR-15s? We see lots of people tased into compliance...Don't the police also have night-stick/tonfa weapons? There were other means at there disposal to deal with this. 6 rounds to an unarmed man is unproportional even if a cop was assailed in the arrest. Had the victim gone for the officer's gun then it might have been considered an attempted murder and prompted more lethal action. Inexperience could have been a big factor.

Quote from: VillageIdiot on August 21, 2014, 04:58:31 PM
The civilized world recognizes laws are necessary to maintain order and follows them.

You can't legislate morality.

Laws aren't the way forward, education and empathy ... And all those kinds of things are.

Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2014, 07:07:01 PM
You can't legislate morality.

Law aren't the way forward, education and empathy are.

The desired end goal is self-management; and education and empathy are certainly tools to that effect.  Law, however, sadly can be necessary as a transitional measure.  The reason why Law appears worthless at the moment, is because it has been made so by overextension, and thus dilution.  Law's effectiveness is inverse to its' quantity.

Hence, I will say to Spacemaverick that my desire is not for a complete absence of order; but rather, for a considerable lessening of the amount of order that we have now, in some respects.  If we have but few rules, then it is easier for the public to know that, because said rules are the only ones, then their very rarity is a measure of their degree of necessity.  Obedience of them is therefore considerably more reliable, than our current scenario.

If we have so many laws that men and women are lawbreakers almost merely by breathing, then how can they be blamed for seeking anarchy?  If, on the other hand, we have the minimal number required to truly preserve society and the species, then if that handful are violated, the violator will have no excuse.

I do not believe that Michael Brown should be given immunity to have injured the police officer in question in this case.  My desired scenario is one in which the Law is the same for both police and civilians; and if we were to have such a scenario, harm done to a police officer, is no less a crime than harm done to a civilian.  To argue for Michael Brown's assault of this officer, if it was genuine, while holding resentment towards the police for their brutalisation of him and others, is to commit a miscarriage of justice.

As for the one, so for the other.  This is the definition of justice.

This is why I advocate the three Laws of Ethics.  All "laws" (bills, codes, mandates, rules, regulations, declarations, etc.) address either issues connected to the three Laws, or are for commercial purposes:  like creating revenue, or defining the field of commerce.

Without the need to account for Our energy input into the system, all "laws" relating to commerce become moot, and the three Laws cover the rest.  Given that We now have the tools to end the need for money, I think three Laws - which anyOne can sit as judge or jury on if need be - are plenty when We finally move to free Humanity from this system of enslavement.

Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2014, 03:13:23 PM
Said like a true dictator ArMap.

A dictator would say something like "those I don't like should know that they are taking a risk". :)

When someone lives in a society they are accepting the rules of that society, unless they are hypocrites and only want a society when it suits them while ignoring it when it's their time to give something back.

Don't be daft - your a commodity of the state the moment your birth certificate is minted.

Being part of 'society' isn't a choice these days..

Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2014, 09:21:30 PM
Don't be daft - your a commodity of the state the moment your birth certificate is minted.

Care to explain?

QuoteBeing part of 'society' isn't a choice these days..

There's always a choice, if you want it and want to accept the consequences.

A Google search will tell you how your Birth Certificate. Ties you to your Nation and it's debt. At least here anyway - dunno about where you are.

I was forced into this society, as I am required to work in this place to earn monies, or rely on thi state for monies to purchase Identification to allow me to leave the country.

That's from the off - all land here is claimed already.

I am stuck in someone elses nation, and I need to join their system to attempt to leave their system.

ETA: Of course we could sit here for hours and debate the concepts of 'choice' and 'risk' ... But I can't be bothered to do that..

Quote from: Sinny on August 21, 2014, 09:58:33 PM
A Google search will tell you how your Birth Certificate. Ties you to your Nation and it's debt.

A Google search can also show me that Justin Bieber is great.  :P

QuoteAt least here anyway - dunno about where you are.

Probably different, our system was created by a real dictator.

ArMaP quote

There's always a choice, if you want it and want to accept the consequences.



golden golden golden

The ArMaP quote golden indeed.

Quote from: sky otter on August 21, 2014, 10:51:19 PM

ArMaP quote

There's always a choice, if you want it and want to accept the consequences.



golden golden golden

Wow.  Rock and hard place is where most of Humanity sits when it comes to choices, consequences.  But it's all good.  We "chose" it.  Heh.

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 21, 2014, 11:13:23 PM
Wow.  Rock and hard place is where most of Humanity sits when it comes to choices, consequences.  But it's all good.  We "chose" it.  Heh.

Making that statement is pretty easy, but how about detailing all of those "Rock and hard place is where most of Humanity sits" PLACES, so we can know whether to accept this statement or not. Where in this world are you talking about? United States? Australia? Great Britain" France? Israel? Canada? Japan? Mexico? Brazil? Russia? India? China? Switzerland? Norway? Spain? Iceland? Countries of Africa? Greece? Italy? ...............................?

Life is life wherever people live, and people live as they can (choices or consequences) where they live.  Of course, life is a "choice" for every single individual, and choosing life means living as required by whoever is in charge/however governed. From the Amazon forests to the streets of New York - -  to live humans do have choices to make - basically deciding that to live and eat, one must work to get what one needs. Even the uneducated tribal groups know that for fact, and have always worked and struggled as necessary to maintain their lives! Yet, in recent times and with more advanced countries, it seems the more education some get, the more they think a free lunch/free life is due. NOT!

Well today I had to make a choice whether to be pushy and get my way or just make life easier for people I could effect. I had traffic control setup road cones out the front of my place so they could merge one lane into the other 2 lanes while large trucks and a cane worked to position the tilt slab panels into the building site 2 doors down. Now I had absolutely no access into my property from the road (with a vehicle) and had a large item on the roof racks which I needed to off load into my property so I had a few choices: (note that no one living in the same complex got any notice that this work would be taking place today so it is inconvenient for all of us)

1:Drive into my drive way possible running over some road cones while trying to avoid them.

2:Stop in that lane and get them to move while endangering myself and other motorists.

3:Drive further down the road and unload the roof racks with timber I had and walk it back to my place 300-400m away.

Choice number 3 is what I took. I didn't disrupt the construction company from doing their job and didn't up set people from me being stupid and obnoxious. I'm not lazy and a little bit of extra work didn't bother me but I do know of people that would of taken options 1 or 2 and have no respect for others. I did ask the traffic control guys when they would be finishing up today and they said it would all be finished before I got home this afternoon. I did mentioned that they are completely blocking access to my property but said I understand what is going on and sorted things out myself. No dramas... no problems.... sorted.

Just thought I would share.

hey Flux..perfect example and  nice choice


and some folks  are between a rock and a hard spot because of their previous choices in life
no pity party for you

Quote from: Flux on August 22, 2014, 12:53:49 AM
1:Drive into my drive way possible running over some road cones while trying to avoid them.

I would have chosen that one...  :P

Then got out and reset any cones I might have (but not likely :P ) that I would have run over.

Have actually done this several times with no consequences

::)

Option #4

Park off to the side... walk up tp the foreman and ask him to flag you into your driveway

You would be surprised at how easy that is  save walking the timbers

Quote from: zorgon on August 22, 2014, 04:18:30 AM
I would have chosen that one...  :P

Then got out and reset any cones I might have (but not likely :P ) that I would have run over.

Have actually done this several times with no consequences

::)

But then well, you do carry a sword just in case doncha?? :)

Quote from: rdunk on August 21, 2014, 11:52:09 PM
Making that statement is pretty easy, but how about detailing all of those "Rock and hard place is where most of Humanity sits" PLACES, so we can know whether to accept this statement or not. Where in this world are you talking about? United States? Australia? Great Britain" France? Israel? Canada? Japan? Mexico? Brazil? Russia? India? China? Switzerland? Norway? Spain? Iceland? Countries of Africa? Greece? Italy? ...............................?

Let us take Croatia...


Many tears ago there was Yugoslavia... a real hot spot and a dictator named Tito.

My friend in Toronto, the chap that taught me gem cutting was a Croatian. I never really paid attention to that until one day....   a fellow came into his cutting shop and innocently asked "So your from Yugoslavia?"

My friend, who was always mild mannered and easy going... exploded  "I am CROATION and don't you forget it!"

He immediately calmed down and apologized for the out burst and all was cool soon after...

Well his father is (was) a farmer in Croatia at the time... and my friend was always on him about being more outspoken politically and against Tito

But his father said  "Son I am a farmer... nothing more.  No matter who is in charge, they still need to eat"

Get the point?

::)

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 21, 2014, 11:13:23 PM
Wow.  Rock and hard place is where most of Humanity sits when it comes to choices, consequences.  But it's all good.  We "chose" it.  Heh.

So true....  I know first hand how people when handed a Golden Goose on a Silver Platter will chose to throw it in the trash rather than put a little effort in getting that Goose to lay its eggs

Pity really... the estimate was 4 BILLION in 10 years...  and all they had to do was bring their skills they already had to the table

Quote from: zorgon on August 22, 2014, 04:28:08 AM

Get the point?

::)

Yes, and that was pretty much what I was trying to get across in the rest of that message. Choices must be made about life things in accord with however governed, or whatever are the circumstances of life where one/we live.

Of course, many who really make it to nice or big money were and are just lucky, right? And in most cases the scenario was/is, the harder they work, the MORE LUCKY the get!! :))

Unless it is inherited, and then it is a factor of having been in the right womb at the right time!!

Quote from: rdunk on August 22, 2014, 04:40:00 AM
Of course, many who really make it to nice or big money were and are just lucky, right? And in most cases the scenario was/is, the harder they work, the MORE LUCKY the get!! :))

Not quite right...

..it's not HARDER work that makes money it is SMARTER work and learning to use the same TOOLS those that get rich use

When you have a GOOD IDEA  that IDEA can be sold...  To gain the best value for that IDEA, the idea needs to be laid out in detail and more importantly, show HOW that IDEA can make returns on investment

I have a signed paper that proves that such an idea can translate into cash, however nothing is free in life and we had to show initiative to earn that paper

The value on that paper was $200,000,000.00

Example of using the right TOOL...

You can take $500.00 and a small steady amount of around $150.00 a month

In 12 months you will have an A+ credit rating, 5,000.00 cash in the bank and 10,000 line of credit

12 MONTHS guaranteed

All it requires is will power

Of course, many who really make it to nice or big money were and are just lucky, right? And in most cases the scenario was/is, the harder they work, the MORE LUCKY the get!!

Thanks for your comments Z! When I said the above, which you quoted, I was making a "tongue in cheek" statement, because there are some here who do think getting rich is all about luck, and little else. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough! :)

In today's world, there are so many different avenues of "work" that can yield huge resulting payoffs - from writing books to coming up with popular websites on the net, as did Matt Drudge. Huge payoffs for good/simple ideas. But sitting on one's "botox" won't make it happen! :)

Quote from: zorgon on August 22, 2014, 04:18:30 AM
I would have chosen that one...  :P

Then got out and reset any cones I might have (but not likely :P ) that I would have run over.

Have actually done this several times with no consequences

::)

:) ;)
Sure I could do that but I could possible damage the companies car and also the cones which I would have to pay for which I don't really want to fork out for (I'm lucky enough to have the company car so don't want to fall out with my boss). Traffic control would report my action to the police because around my city there is plenty of road rage going on due to reconstruction of the city. I would then have to deal with the construction company for my action and then seeing the building is only just been built they could make things difficult for me later on.

Could have taken choice #4 but the lay out of the cones didn't allow me to find a park (one way 3 lane wide street) in the correct direction so by the time I found a place I could park it was just easy to off load the car and walk it back home. I'm very fit and strong so have no problem lugging the material (20+ years as a builder) plus 5-6 days a week at the gym.

I've finished work for the day sat down for dinner with a lovely glass of red wine and feel nice a fuzzy.... cheers! ;)

Considering that the bulk of Us are malnourished, or starving, it is not because WE chose anything.  We were born into a world where poverty is rampant and NO choice is available except starving or crime.  These are the choices for a huge portion of Humanity.  And still, many choose to starve rather than resort to crime.

But all those People chose that situation, right?

And don't "pity party" ME.  I am not speaking of Myself but of all the children dying of starvation, preventable disease, and etc.  Geez. 

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 22, 2014, 08:01:23 AM
Considering that the bulk of Us are malnourished, or starving, it is not because WE chose anything.

Amy,
I've noticed that one of the main ways in which I can improve my psychological state, and/or maintain a positive state, is by also maintaining a belief that I have, and make, choices.  I would personally put this in the category of Pascal's Wager, in the sense that while it is not a belief that is necessarily always true, it is still a belief that always has beneficial effects, if it is believed to be true.

Belief in our sovereignty always helps, whether or not it seems as though we actually have any in the immediate situation.

Quote from: petrus4 on August 22, 2014, 08:29:35 AM
Amy,
I've noticed that one of the main ways in which I can improve my psychological state, and/or maintain a positive state, is by also maintaining a belief that I have, and make, choices.  I would personally put this in the category of Pascal's Wager, in the sense that while it is not a belief that is necessarily always true, it is still a belief that always has beneficial effects, if it is believed to be true.

Belief in our sovereignty always helps, whether or not it seems as though we actually have any in the immediate situation.

Oh, Petrus, I am on board with choice theory.  Within the bounds of opportunity We do have Our choices.  My point is that there are so many whose opportunity is extremely limited on this planet.  When a child dies of starvation, I CANNOT believe it was merely the child's choice.  That way leads to psychopathy.

We exist in a cocreation, with each of Us affecting the whole to varying extents, and even if We believe that all is created by Consciousness, it is not a simple "We create Our own reality," but an interweaving of all Consciousness that creates what We are a part of.

The big error in Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment is in the presumption that it is only the HUMAN observer that creates this fabric We influence.  The cat is Conscious.  Even the bacteria on and in the cat are Conscious.  The level of awareness may differ, but there is more than Human Consciousness at work.

And that child, dying of starvation, has been given VERY little choice in the fabric as We are presently weaving it.  I would weave vastly better even for that child.

KKK now on scene...

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 22, 2014, 08:01:23 AM
We were born into a world where poverty is rampant and NO choice is available except starving or crime.  These are the choices for a huge portion of Humanity.  And still, many choose to starve rather than resort to crime.

That is the biggest pile of BULL POOP I ever heard...

Down in Mexico many are poor and starving...and drug lords rule the land... they risk their very lives at times to come to America and WORK  They take those jobs that LAZY ASS AMERICANS don't want to do... and most of them (while I do NOT support illegals) make a dam good living in a short time... with enough to send some extra back home. Hell the guy behind me drives a Humvee

Crime? sure with the illegals a portion are into drugs etc, but the vast majority come to pick your fruits and vegetables, a job few lazy Americans will touch... and soon they are the gardeners, the dry wallers, the concrete pourers  and other high paid construction jobs.  that SHOULD be filled by lazy ass Americans.

They get food stamps and even free medical, even though they are illegal. They are the 'robots' that some people here want to do all the work  :P

QuoteBut all those People chose that situation, right?

Many do  A lot of former wall street and bankers are on the streets by choice :P but what they DON'T Do is take ANY opportunity to get OUT of the situation they are born into. Yes it IS possible for most in America... its not EASY but it is POSSIBLE

QuoteAnd don't "pity party" ME.  I am not speaking of Myself but

uh huh...

Quoteof all the children dying of starvation, preventable disease, and etc.  Geez.

Well organize a charity campaign that REALLY gets the money to those who need it... not like Red Cross etc where the money goes who knows where? And maybe if certain nations would stop dumping their trash and crapping in their own water they might have less disease.

4 months after Japan's Tsunami the 5-6 BILLION collected by the Red Cross... not a dime had gone to Japan yet...  Its not like they needed any help in the IMMEDIATE time right?

::)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 25, 2014, 01:21:00 AM
KKK now on scene...

So now Anon is making deals with the KKK?  Oh GOOD GRIEF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJCLWlxjRaA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJCLWlxjRaA

"Do you have any plans at all to take up arms and come to Ferguson?"


Ferguson, MO — The alternative media group, News2Share has filmed a sit-down meeting between Frank Ancona (Grand Wizard of the Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan) and Alex Poucher, a member of Anonymous.

Over the past weeks the two groups have been engaged in a particularly vicious feud stemming from their differences over the shooting of Michael Brown by officer Darren Wilson.

After the KKK released a disturbing flyer that said they will use "lethal force" against protesters, anonymous has stepped up to the plate to call them out on this threat.

Anonymous answered this apparent call to violence by hacking the KKK Twitter page and exposing many of the members of the KKK in their #hoodsoff campaign.

Anonymous also released information, which they claimed, directly connected officer Darren Wilson as well as other members of the Ferguson Police Department to the KKK.

Amazingly enough the interview between the two apparent enemies was cordial and may have served to mitigate some of the tension between these two groups.

At the beginning of the discussion Ancona states that he didn't "know too much about anonymous, but I learned some things over the last few days about what y'all stand for."
Over the last few days, the hacktivist group has doxed several members of the KKK including Ancona, releasing a deluge of personal information, including social security numbers; so he now knows quite a bit about the capabilities of Anonymous.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/anonymous-sits-interview-kkk-leader-frank-ancona/

How come the Black Panther's missed that meeting?

:o

The Hoods vs the Masks

The KKK scored a rare victory over Anonymous, and may as well enjoy gloating while they can. On Sunday, they somehow managed to take back their @Operation_KKK Twitter account.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/11/23/kkk-twitter-hacks-anonymous-takes-back-operation-kkk/


(http://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/smiley-popcorn-image-jpg.91247/)

A video reportedly released by the hacker collective Anonymous on Thursday warned both police in Ferguson, Missouri and the Ku Klux Klan against hurting local demonstrators, The Free Thought Project reported.

"To the KKK and police: be peaceful or you will feel the consequences," the video stated. "To the protesters: do not be afraid. We are here for you and will protect and serve you. We are the law now."

The video came in response to a message attributed to Frank Ancona, the leader of the Traditionalist American Knights of the KKK, threatening to "hunt down" Anonymous members.

"You'll be strung up next to the chimps," the KKK's message stated. "On display for the whole world to see. The Klan is to be feared, not threatened. Turn away, or face the consequences.

This is going to get interesting...

Anon has Masks and hackers on their side

KKK has Hoods and guns, and 'good ole boys' on their side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHAp14lYoc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHAp14lYoc

Quote from: zorgon on November 25, 2014, 02:53:12 AM
This is going to get interesting...

Anon has Masks and hackers on their side

KKK has Hoods and guns, and 'good ole boys' on their side

"Marxist useful idiots to the Left of me; inbred, moonshine-drinking anachronisms to the Right."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DohRa9lsx0Q

(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/033/2/5/good_night_white_pride_by_stalinfalcon-d5tk2jv.png)

If there is any group on the planet who I really would advocate the use of live ammunition against, it is the Klan.  As much as I genuinely do detest civil rights, they make me ashamed to be white.

Quote"To the KKK and police: be peaceful or you will feel the consequences," the video stated. "To the protesters: do not be afraid. We are here for you and will protect and serve you. We are the law now."[/color]

Ahhh.  Good old fashioned vigilantism.  Nothing ever goes wrong with that.  Just throw a little more fuel on the fire and call it good.    ::)

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 22, 2014, 08:01:23 AM
Considering that the bulk of Us are malnourished, or starving, it is not because WE chose anything.  We were born into a world where poverty is rampant and NO choice is available except starving or crime.  These are the choices for a huge portion of Humanity.  And still, many choose to starve rather than resort to crime.

What you are describing is also referred to as a form of Social Darwinism and generally follows that the rich are rich because they were meant to reach that. The poor are poor because they just can't do any better and deserve their fate, and the rest are stuck in the middle by no choice of their own, but also with no options or hope of really changing it. All this having been determined by status, class and birthright.

People like Rockefeller and the other industrial titans of the early 20th and late 19th espoused that and many still DO as a way to explain why the rich are rich and the poor are poor. It also has a bonus of keeping a good % from ever even trying to be more than they are today, if they believe anything about that philosophy.

I think it's a crock of hooey and a very comfy excuse for those without, to blame those with ...without ever having to face the idea that they COULD change their OWN situation, if motivated strongly enough or making opportunity for themselves.

Completely agree Wrabbit2k.  It's easier to put the blame somewhere else and whine about what ought to be done, than to actually get your azz out there and DO IT.  The whole mindset of "take from the rich and redistribute to the poor" is a sad sad state of affairs.  This is YOUR life.  You either take control, or accept what you get.

(Spoiler:  You get a lot less from handouts.)

Quote from: zorgon on November 25, 2014, 02:11:51 AM
That is the biggest pile of BULL POOP I ever heard...

Down in Mexico many are poor and starving...and drug lords rule the land... they risk their very lives at times to come to America and WORK  They take those jobs that LAZY ASS AMERICANS don't want to do... and most of them (while I do NOT support illegals) make a dam good living in a short time... with enough to send some extra back home. Hell the guy behind me drives a Humvee

Crime? sure with the illegals a portion are into drugs etc, but the vast majority come to pick your fruits and vegetables, a job few lazy Americans will touch... and soon they are the gardeners, the dry wallers, the concrete pourers  and other high paid construction jobs.  that SHOULD be filled by lazy ass Americans.

They get food stamps and even free medical, even though they are illegal. They are the 'robots' that some people here want to do all the work  :P

Many do  A lot of former wall street and bankers are on the streets by choice :P but what they DON'T Do is take ANY opportunity to get OUT of the situation they are born into. Yes it IS possible for most in America... its not EASY but it is POSSIBLE

uh huh...

Well organize a charity campaign that REALLY gets the money to those who need it... not like Red Cross etc where the money goes who knows where? And maybe if certain nations would stop dumping their trash and crapping in their own water they might have less disease.

4 months after Japan's Tsunami the 5-6 BILLION collected by the Red Cross... not a dime had gone to Japan yet...  Its not like they needed any help in the IMMEDIATE time right?

::)

Is this the same Red Cross that you were touting support for in a previous post to me?

Lol.

Quote from: Wrabbit2000 on November 25, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
What you are describing is also referred to as a form of Social Darwinism and generally follows that the rich are rich because they were meant to reach that. The poor are poor because they just can't do any better and deserve their fate, and the rest are stuck in the middle by no choice of their own, but also with no options or hope of really changing it. All this having been determined by status, class and birthright.

People like Rockefeller and the other industrial titans of the early 20th and late 19th espoused that and many still DO as a way to explain why the rich are rich and the poor are poor. It also has a bonus of keeping a good % from ever even trying to be more than they are today, if they believe anything about that philosophy.

I think it's a crock of hooey and a very comfy excuse for those without, to blame those with ...without ever having to face the idea that they COULD change their OWN situation, if motivated strongly enough or making opportunity for themselves.

Any economist will tell you that wealth creates wealth, and those born into poverty have very little possibility of improving their situation due to various social contructs.

I feel as though some people on this forum just have to argue against this FACT for the sake of inflating their own ego's.

Please tell me how a poor starving African child can improve his/her situation?

We're not talking about actual lazy people, we're talking about humans that are genuinely trapped into a system they cannot change themselves.

The mentally of some people here is disturbing to say the LEAST.

Quote from: WarToad on November 25, 2014, 04:55:36 PM
Completely agree Wrabbit2k.  It's easier to put the blame somewhere else and whine about what ought to be done, than to actually get your azz out there and DO IT.  The whole mindset of "take from the rich and redistribute to the poor" is a sad sad state of affairs.  This is YOUR life.  You either take control, or accept what you get.

(Spoiler:  You get a lot less from handouts.)

Wow.

Is the only politically correct response I can offer to that.

There's a place for people with opinions like that, I believe the Christians call it hell.

I suppose you 'New Agers' would call it 'Service to Self', paint it in flowers, whilst 'shrugging' it off, hoping you next incarnation is on Pluto where the grass is blue..

Quote from: Sinny on November 25, 2014, 05:21:33 PM
Any economist will tell you that wealth creates wealth, and those born into poverty have very little possibility of improving their situation due to various social contructs.

Since there are plenty of rags to riches stories and rich kids gone broke... this statement really doesn't hold water.  People do move up and down the economic ladder.

If you believe you are born into your lot and there's nothing you can do about it, then life isn't really worth living, is it?  You're just playing out the role assigned to you, counting off the days until you die.  A mentality like that would make one want to punch out early.  I'll pass on all of that.  I choose free will.

Ah, claiming moral high ground.   ::)  Makes one feel good.

I've offended you with the realities of the way of the world.  I beg forgiveness and will get back to work.

Quote from: Wrabbit2000 on November 25, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
People like Rockefeller and the other industrial titans of the early 20th and late 19th espoused that and many still DO as a way to explain why the rich are rich and the poor are poor. It also has a bonus of keeping a good % from ever even trying to be more than they are today, if they believe anything about that philosophy.

I think it's a crock of hooey and a very comfy excuse for those without, to blame those with ...without ever having to face the idea that they COULD change their OWN situation, if motivated strongly enough or making opportunity for themselves.

I don't believe in Marxist class theory, and agree with you that it is primarily a means for people to advocate abdication of personal responsibility.  At the same time, in my opinion, evil is an unavoidable pre-requisite of both the accumulation and maintenance of genuinely large scale monetary wealth.  That is an immutable law, to the same extent as gravity.

Quote from: Sinny on November 25, 2014, 05:21:33 PM
Any economist will tell you that wealth creates wealth.

An important point needs to be made here.  Wealth does not, in fact, create wealth.  Usury creates wealth.

And we have found the answer to our original question, Whether the art of getting wealth is the business of the manager of a household and of the statesman or not their business? viz., that wealth is presupposed by them. For as political science does not make men, but takes them from nature and uses them, so too nature provides them with earth or sea or the like as a source of food. At this stage begins the duty of the manager of a household, who has to order the things which nature supplies; he may be compared to the weaver who has not to make but to use wool, and to know, too, what sort of wool is good and serviceable or bad and unserviceable. Were this otherwise, it would be difficult to see why the art of getting wealth is a part of the management of a household and the art of medicine not; for surely the members of a household must have health just as they must have life or any other necessary. The answer is that as from one point of view the master of the house and the ruler of the state have to consider about health, from another point of view not they but the physician; so in one way the art of household management, in another way the subordinate art, has to consider about wealth. But, strictly speaking, as I have already said, the means of life must be provided beforehand by nature; for the business of nature is to furnish food to that which is born, and the food of the offspring is always what remains over of that from which it is produced. Wherefore the art of getting wealth out of fruits and animals is always natural.

There are two sorts of wealth-getting, as I have said; one is a part of household management, the other is retail trade: the former necessary and honorable, while that which consists in exchange is justly censured; for it is unnatural, and a mode by which men gain from one another. The most hated sort, and with the greatest reason, is usury, which makes a gain out of money itself, and not from the natural object of it. For money was intended to be used in exchange, but not to increase at interest. And this term interest, which means the birth of money from money, is applied to the breeding of money because the offspring resembles the parent. Wherefore of an modes of getting wealth this is the most unnatural.
        -- Aristotle, Politics, Book I, Part X.

Not contented with this, he resolved to make a division of their movables too, that there might be no odious distinction or inequality left amongst them; but finding that it would be very dangerous to go about it openly, he took another course, and defeated their avarice by the following stratagem: he commanded that all gold and silver coin should be called in, and that only a sort of money made of iron should be current, a great weight and quantity of which was very little worth; so that to lay up twenty or thirty pounds there was required a pretty large closet, and, to remove it, nothing less than a yoke of oxen. With the diffusion of this money, at once a number of vices were banished from Lacedaemon; for who would rob another of such a coin? Who would unjustly detain or take by force, or accept as a bribe, a thing which it was not easy to hide, nor a credit to have, nor indeed of any use to cut in pieces? For when it was just red hot, they quenched it in vinegar, and by that means spoilt it, and made it almost incapable of being worked.

In the next place, he declared an outlawry of all needless and superfluous arts; but here he might almost have spared his proclamation; for they of themselves would have gone after the gold and silver, the money which remained being not so proper payment for curious work; for, being of iron, it was scarcely portable, neither, if they should take the means to export it, would it pass amongst the other Greeks, who ridiculed it. So there was now no more means of purchasing foreign goods and small wares; merchants sent no shiploads into Laconian ports; no rhetoric-master, no itinerate fortune-teller, no harlot-monger, or gold or silversmith, engraver, or jeweller, set foot in a country which had no money; so that luxury, deprived little by little of that which fed and fomented it, wasted to nothing and died away of itself. For the rich had no advantage here over the poor, as their wealth and abundance had no road to come abroad by but were shut up at home doing nothing. And in this way they became excellent artists in common, necessary things; bedsteads, chairs, and tables, and such like staple utensils in a family, were admirably well made there; their cup, particularly, was very much in fashion, and eagerly bought up by soldiers, as Critias reports; for its colour was such as to prevent water, drunk upon necessity and disagreeable to look at, from being noticed; and the shape of it was such that the mud stuck to the sides, so that only the purer part came to the drinker's mouth. For this also, they had to thank their lawgiver, who, by relieving the artisans of the trouble of making useless things, set them to show their skill in giving, beauty to those of daily and indispensable use.
        -- Plutarch, Lycurgus.

Money, in and of itself, and entirely aside from its' actual use, is inherently and unavoidably evil.  This is because the very principles and mechanisms upon which the accumulation of wealth depends, are themselves evil.  Look into it, and you will find that if there is a single thing which every one of the great religions was unanimous in condemning, including Greek philosophy, it was usury.  Judaism advocated usury as a weapon against other people, but did not condone it among Jews themselves.

People.souls Create Wealth YOU FOOLS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYx9ua74CaY

Quote from: WarToad on November 25, 2014, 04:55:36 PM
(Spoiler:  You get a lot less from handouts.)

A few years back in Salt Lake City....

There was a man who made the news.

What he did was every morning he put on his bum clothes and went to one of his favorite corners to ask for handouts.

Surprisingly enough, many people DO drop their loose change in the hat.

So you ask...  how much?

Well THAT is why he made the evening news,,,

He was averaging $300.00 a DAY. With that money he bought a house up on the hill and a Ferari. He was taken to court because he did NOT pay income tax on this money.

Well it turns out that in the USA pan handling is LEGAL and there is NO INCOME TAX collected on Pan Handling.

Now obviously the Law Makers never anticipated a Pan Handler making $300.00 a DAY... But at the end of the day, there was NOTHING that they could do as he was 100% within the law...

Last I heard he is still on those corners

Now I am not suggesting you all go out and become Pan Handlers BUT the point is here is someone who changed from pauper to well off on the hill by his own actions without turning to crime.

And then there is THIS guy...

(http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/22755/slide_22755_326562_large.jpg)

Wanna bet he gets one?   :P

::)

Quote from: Sinny on November 25, 2014, 05:13:11 PM
Is this the same Red Cross that you were touting support for in a previous post to me?

Not me... I have never touted support for the Red Cross. Ever since 9/11 when that money they collected never reached the people (save a few bucks) I have spoken against them. Several posts of mine have been about the vast money the heads of these 'charities' make

I have supported Opportunity Village... a local charity that takes care of the mentally handicapped.  At least I KNOW where that money goes  even though the directors of that org also make $120,000 a year (this is the current cap for a director of a regular non profit)

Red Faces At The Red Cross - CBS News
Jul 30, 2002 - Local Chapters Kept 9/11 Money Instead Of Sending It In For Victims. ... Part Three: 9/11 Fund Threatened Red Cross' "Leaky Piggy Bank".

Article has been pulled  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/red-faces-at-the-red-cross/

The Red Cross Coming Home to Roost: Remember 9/11, Anyone?

mericans have a short and forgiving historical memory. Most can remember last year's Super Bowl champs and World Series winners, but few seem able to remember a $1 billion scandal involving the American Red Cross following 9/11, America's most disastrous terrorist or military attack on its homeland.

The details are brief. The Red Cross responded to 9/11 by opening a few shelters to which no one came; tried to trace missing persons but were pushed aside when the World Trade Center site was dubbed a crime scene and police and FBI took over identification of missing persons; and, served coffee and donuts to rescue workers at the World Trade Center site only to be accused of charging for them. (It later paid Daniel Bouley, New York's star chef, to cook for them after the news about charging for coffee was made public.)

The Red Cross' own 9/11 Liberty Fund indeed shows only $336,000 in US or state government reimbursement for what little it did do as a "first responder," a designation equal to police, fire and emergency medical service personnel.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-walden/the-red-cross-coming-home_b_7653.html

The current President and CEO of the American Red Cross (since 2008) is Gail J. McGovern, whose total yearly compensation for 2010 was about $1,037,000   Source SNOPES

Here are the other 'charities' 

TOP 25 COMPENSATION PACKAGES
http://www.charitywatch.org/hottopics/Top25.html

Did Your Donation Really Reach Japan? (Probably Not.)

Twitter is full of anxious donors, retweeting to text REDCROSS to 90999 to make $10 donation. Now, there's nothing wrong with this donation: The American Red Cross is a superb organization. But Japan hasn't actually asked them for help just yet.

In other words, you may think your money is helping disaster relief in Japan. But from the press releases we've seen today, no US-based nonprofits are actually deploying to Japan yet.

This example isn't intended to single out The American Red Cross. From what we can tell, every major relief organization with an American chapter is doing the same thing: raising funds for if and when they're deployed to Japan or anywhere else affected by the day's events. Doctors Without Borders may be an exception, as they've sent a scouting crew ahead.

We were unable to reach The American Red Cross or a few other organizations for comment, but we did talk to Charity Navigator about the ordeal, one of the leading authorities on nonprofits—particularly on how nonprofits are spending their money.

They confirmed, it doesn't appear that Japan has asked anyone for outside assistance just yet. And we have no way of knowing if they'll actually need it.

"Every disaster is different. It's too early to tell [if Japan needs outside assistance]," explained Charity Navigator VP Sandra Miniutti. "Waiting 24-36 hours to donate wouldn't be a bad thing,"

So why is everyone asking for money? Natural disasters bring in donations. Hurricane Katrina brought $3.3 billion to date. Haiti has brought in $1.4 billion so far. And when is the best time to ask someone for money? When he can see floods, fires and other devastation on TV.

BILLIONS  and no one knows where all that money goes.

Not saying they don't do ANY good...  but a lot of that money people donate just gets sucked up in "administration"

Quote from: ArMaP on August 20, 2014, 01:53:43 PM
Probably in the same place where it says that people should follow police orders. :)

They should start be more selective about who they pick to be their officers. Then prepare them better, because there is a lot of violent thugs disguised as police nowadays.

Quote from: petrus4 on November 25, 2014, 06:35:04 PM
An important point needs to be made here.  Wealth does not, in fact, create wealth.  Usury creates wealth.

You are confusing MONEY with WEALTH.  Wealth INDEED DOES create WEALTH.  I will agree that USURY is EVIL and I will further agree that wealthy people who hoard that wealth are evil... because if they SPENT that money they would actually make MORE money long term

QuoteJudaism advocated usury as a weapon against other people, but did not condone it among Jews themselves.

A Jew can go to the synagogue and get help financially to start a business. They can do this THREE TIMES if they fail the first two attempts. (after that they are considered useless :P)  How many people would fail three times with such an opportunity?  Not many.  Back in Toronto I was associates with a Jewish diamond merchant when I was starting out learning the gen trade...

He offered me a $5,000 "loan" to help me get equipment. This "loan" was never collected and here I am being German :P  So yeah there are some good people out there.

BUT wealth DOES create WEALTH

Take EBAY as an example.

Pierre Omidyar created EBAY as a place where his wife could sell her PEZ candy dispenser collection..

That simple IDEA fetched him over 7 BILLION and made Pierre one of the richest men in the world.


Pierre is a really NICE guy...  My son did the alarm system in his house. THAT was an interesting story  LOL. Pierre is French/Persian but a staunch American and philanthropist (sharing that wealth)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Pomidyarji.jpg/220px-Pomidyarji.jpg)
Pierre Omidyar at his Las Vegas home in 2007

He became a billionaire at the age of 31 with eBay's 1998 Initial Public Offering (IPO). Omidyar and his wife Pamela are well-known philanthropists who founded Omidyar Network in 2004 in order to expand their efforts beyond nonprofits to include for-profits and public policy.

Now EBAY is a HUGE NETWORK that allows EVERYONE to sell items... NO TAX, NO INCOME TAX (until you reach $20,000 a year as a business)  When you sell your personal stuff, it is used goods. Taxes already paid on it in most cases. If you sell big items, well then Capital Gains taxes apply  The first $50,000 a year are tax free

So  here is a PRIME EXAMPLE of the wealth of ONE creating potential wealth for MILLIONS

All that is required is some EFFORT... go out to thrift stores and yard sales and LOOK for cheap stuff to sell. You would be amazed at what you can find

Eight Ways To Build Wealth Like Millionaires Do - Make It A Game

The economic downturn has taken its toll on Americans – business owners and workers alike. Many of those who lost their jobs had to take substantial pay cuts in order to work.  Overtime is a thing of the past and many who would like a second job find they are few and far between.  Just because times have been challenging doesn't mean it's impossible to build wealth.  In fact building wealth can actually be enjoyable, even fun.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/financialfinesse/2012/11/15/eight-ways-to-build-wealth-like-millionaires-do-make-it-a-game/

Quote from: RUSSO on November 25, 2014, 08:28:51 PM
They should start be more selective about who they pick to be their officers. Then prepare them better, because there is a lot of violent thugs disguised as police nowadays.

That is because few normal people want to be cops :P

Quote from: Sinny on November 25, 2014, 05:21:33 PM
Any economist will tell you that wealth creates wealth,

The problem is that those who have no wealth... do not understand HOW this works or what it means... so they go on about their business never learning the truth

Quoteand those born into poverty have very little possibility of improving their situation due to various social contructs.

Most people assume 'wealth" and "money" are the same thing. They are NOT.

It is true that only in the Western "free" societies will these ideas of creating wealth from nothing work... but one thing is ABSOLUTELY TRUE... You MUST put REAL EFFORT into it

A recent chap in the UK... an older guy, spent years walking around with a metal detector.  Finally got lucky. UK treasure laws are still "finders keepers"  His find netted him 4 million Pounds Sterling

Point is had he NOT got his ass out there walking the fields he would not have gotten lucky

It is true that many people at the bottom of the barrel FEEL they have no choice... and years ago that was mostly true. But in today's internet world it is no longer true.  Just make a good website while sitting on your ass at home and your content can make you money. There are THOUSANDS of ways to make money in today's climate.  When you are broke you have a lot of free time.

KNOWLEDGE is MONEY  We have the internet at our finger tips. No matter how poor you are you can get access to FREE KNOWLEDGE today all the way to University level... a thing unheard of in the past

QuoteI feel as though some people on this forum just have to argue against this FACT for the sake of inflating their own ego's.

I feel some people on this forum are too stubborn to actually go out and WORK at it to find a solution to their own woes  and feel the need to whine to make them feel good and justified.  Your "FACT" is merely a biased assumption, not a real fact   :P

Let's pick on Amy for a second :P  She has graphic and writing talents... yet she focuses ALL of that onto ONE topic  that being TAP.  TAP is not selling so why not write something else in the meantime to make a few bucks?  My wife's mother was not much of a writer, but she did try a few small booklets.

One such booklet (24 pages folded in half with a cardboard cover) she wrote was about GOLD... She found the info she needed online. She was an amateur rockhound so had that knowledge. In effect the booklet was a short history of GOLD then how to find it, where and how to pan for it, etc...  This was years ago...she sold them for $4.95...    Didn't get rich BIT she sold many copies and started herself on making more.  Today she runs a small one woman publishing company from her apartment . She even tried a small magazine for rockhounds

There are THOUSANDS of ways to make money and FREE TOOLS all over the net

Quote from: zorgon on November 25, 2014, 08:40:01 PM
That is because few normal people want to be cops :P

and most of these few ones work behind desks. :(

Quote from: zorgon on November 25, 2014, 08:59:54 PM
The problem is that those who have no wealth... do not understand HOW this works or what it means... so they go on about their business never learning the truth

Most people assume 'wealth" and "money" are the same thing. They are NOT.

It is true that only in the Western "free" societies will these ideas of creating wealth from nothing work... but one thing is ABSOLUTELY TRUE... You MUST put REAL EFFORT into it

A recent chap in the UK... an older guy, spent years walking around with a metal detector.  Finally got lucky. UK treasure laws are still "finders keepers"  His find netted him 4 million Pounds Sterling

Point is had he NOT got his ass out there walking the fields he would not have gotten lucky

It is true that many people at the bottom of the barrel FEEL they have no choice... and years ago that was mostly true. But in today's internet world it is no longer true.  Just make a good website while sitting on your ass at home and your content can make you money. There are THOUSANDS of ways to make money in today's climate.  When you are broke you have a lot of free time.

KNOWLEDGE is MONEY  We have the internet at our finger tips. No matter how poor you are you can get access to FREE KNOWLEDGE today all the way to University level... a thing unheard of in the past

I feel some people on this forum are too stubborn to actually go out and WORK at it to find a solution to their own woes  and feel the need to whine to make them feel good and justified.  Your "FACT" is merely a biased assumption, not a real fact   :P

Let's pick on Amy for a second :P  She has graphic and writing talents... yet she focuses ALL of that onto ONE topic  that being TAP.  TAP is not selling so why not write something else in the meantime to make a few bucks?  My wife's mother was not much of a writer, but she did try a few small booklets.

One such booklet (24 pages folded in half with a cardboard cover) she wrote was about GOLD... She found the info she needed online. She was an amateur rockhound so had that knowledge. In effect the booklet was a short history of GOLD then how to find it, where and how to pan for it, etc...  This was years ago...she sold them for $4.95...    Didn't get rich BIT she sold many copies and started herself on making more.  Today she runs a small one woman publishing company from her apartment . She even tried a small magazine for rockhounds

There are THOUSANDS of ways to make money and FREE TOOLS all over the net

My fact is a fact in every sense of the word, I used 'wealth' generally to denote economic income, (which perhaps I shouldn't, I wrote an essay on their challenged definitions just last year).

Besides that, I believe Amy was referring to 'poor' people in say 3rd World Countries (which is now politically incorrect to state), where ALL those possibilities you highlight above are VOID.

Starving African 1 year old, what can he do to improve his situation?

Quote from: RUSSO on November 25, 2014, 09:43:25 PM
and most of these few ones work behind desks. :(

I find this interesting...I guess I'm not normal.  I wanted to be a cop and corrections officer because I thought I could make a difference.  Soldier, cop, corrections officer....just wanted to make a difference.

Interesting set of opinions on this thread.  How many have actually walked a mile in the shoes of an officer and know what they deal with everyday?  Just a thought...

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 25, 2014, 10:42:48 PM
I find this interesting...I guess I'm not normal.  I wanted to be a cop and corrections officer because I thought I could make a difference.  Soldier, cop, corrections officer....just wanted to make a difference.

Interesting set of opinions on this thread.  How many have actually walked a mile in the shoes of an officer and know what they deal with everyday?  Just a thought...

I presume they deal with life, like the rest of us... Further more, they make a choice to 'serve' in that role each day that they do.

Quote from: RUSSO on November 25, 2014, 08:28:51 PM
They should start be more selective about who they pick to be their officers. Then prepare them better, because there is a lot of violent thugs disguised as police nowadays.

The above seems to be ignoring the glaring fact that it is within the upper echlons of said organisations that have been infiltrated with these immoral persons.

How do I expect my local police force to maintain moral high standing whilst their BOSSES, Scotland Yard and MI6 are in up to 'it' by their necks?

P.s I won't apologise for my opinions, but I do apologise for my lack of diplomacy within this thread..

P.p.s National Guard got to Fergy faster than then did Hurricane Katrina...

Quote from: Sinny on November 25, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
I presume they deal with life, like the rest of us... Further more, they make a choice to 'serve' in that role each day that they do.

Very true Sinny, very true.  I did a number of ride-a-longs here in the states before I went into the profession.  It sure opened my eyes.  I still wasn't sure until I had gone through my first year.  We have had some bad ones along the way and most get weeded out (in my area anyway).  The culture still needs to be changed though.

Quote from: Sinny on November 25, 2014, 10:57:38 PM
The above seems to be ignoring the glaring fact that it is within the upper echlons of said organisations that have been infiltrated with these immoral persons.

How do expect my local police force to maintain moral high standing whilst their BOSSES, Scotland Yard and MI6 are in up to 'it' by their necks?

You nailed it.  The leaders set the tone for the rest of the organization...as the leadership goes so goes the department.  Truth indeed.

BREAKING NOW...

Advance Auto Parts just set on fire...

1451 Chambers...LaundroMat on fire...

T-Mobile store also approached...

HR Block looted...

PNC Bank...

These must be Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson 'peaceful protestors'... :P

Ok, Mr. Politically UnCorrect here...

First...there should be a dusk to dawn curfew.
Second....if you are on the street after dusk, you better have a damn good reason or you go to jail...
Third....ALL LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT DEAD...Molotov cocktail in your hand, you ARE DEAD...


Having actually lived through Katrina, I know a little about it...the National Guard was there from day one...it was only after the levee broke did it become impossible to move around...

The National guard got to the west bank on Wednesday and escorted us out....Only because of the tremendous damage done to the electric grid, no power, no sewage. We ran out of gas for our generator so we had to leave. Plaquemines and St. Bernard parishes suffered the worst damage from the hurricane...New Orleans was basically untouched until the levee broke. The eye of Katrina missed my house by 2 miles so I know what I'm talking about.

Yes there are bad cops, but the good really outnumber the bad 1000 to 1...
And the cops life on the beat so to speak is NOTHING like what the average citizen life....not even close...


Ok I'm done.... 8)

Quote from: zorgon on November 25, 2014, 08:37:45 PM
You are confusing MONEY with WEALTH.  Wealth INDEED DOES create WEALTH.  I will agree that USURY is EVIL and I will further agree that wealthy people who hoard that wealth are evil... because if they SPENT that money they would actually make MORE money long term

While I am not conceding that you are universally correct, I acknowledge that with this post, you are right, and that revision of my previous opinion is called for.  Mea culpa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Y2Vh5Qk1Q

Rock, realise that with this post, I am still willing to grant you a greater measure of respect than you are me; because I will still respond to you expressing your opinions, even if I disagree with them.

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 26, 2014, 01:45:11 AM
First...there should be a dusk to dawn curfew.

For how long should this curfew last, is the immediate question?  I suspect that current American authorities would be far too eager to make it permanent.

QuoteThird....ALL LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT DEAD...Molotov cocktail in your hand, you ARE DEAD...

Rock, given that you would no doubt be swift to remind me that you have active military experience, (if you were still willing to communicate with me, at least) then surely the concept of escalation was included in your training.  The use of lethal force would most likely expand and intensify the current unrest, rather than reducing it.

The rioters usually do not seem to be from Ferguson itself, but come from other states.  That being the case, there are suggestions that I could make for de-escalation, here.

a}  Police checkpoints surrounding either Ferguson's outer perimeter, or the more immediate vicinity of the disturbance.  Nobody should be allowed in without adequate reason, and shoppers should generally be diverted elsewhere, so that can not be used as an excuse.  An exception for journalists; but only if they can prove that.

b}  The use of non-lethal, major tranquilising agents against protesters carrying molotov cocktails.  We need a real implementation of the stun setting of Star Trek's phasers for law enforcement.  This way the subject is rendered harmless without being killed.

c}  A ban on anyone associated with the American Communist Party, Occupy, or any other Leftist NGO or activist group (such as Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International) from entering the area.  While journalists should be let in, foreign/external activists absolutely should not be.  This is to prevent escalation, as well as preventing government efforts, to use the incident as pretext for increased authoritarianism.

QuoteHaving actually lived through Katrina, I know a little about it...the National Guard was there from day one...it was only after the levee broke did it become impossible to move around...

Blackwater were there as well.

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 26, 2014, 01:45:11 AM
Ok, Mr. Politically UnCorrect here...

First...there should be a dusk to dawn curfew.
Second....if you are on the street after dusk, you better have a damn good reason or you go to jail...
Third....ALL LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT DEAD...Molotov cocktail in your hand, you ARE DEAD...


Having actually lived through Katrina, I know a little about it...the National Guard was there from day one...it was only after the levee broke did it become impossible to move around...

The National guard got to the west bank on Wednesday and escorted us out....Only because of the tremendous damage done to the electric grid, no power, no sewage. We ran out of gas for our generator so we had to leave. Plaquemines and St. Bernard parishes suffered the worst damage from the hurricane...New Orleans was basically untouched until the levee broke. The eye of Katrina missed my house by 2 miles so I know what I'm talking about.

Yes there are bad cops, but the good really outnumber the bad 1000 to 1...
And the cops life on the beat so to speak is NOTHING like what the average citizen life....not even close...


Ok I'm done.... 8)

Sarge, I'm with ya on this.  In 2004 when we had the 4 hurricanes (almost one after another) we had National Guard and a police task force from various cities along with curfews in place.  We have 2 particular towns that could have presented problems.  Those towns were very quiet due to the presence of active National Guard and police task force.  We had a threat but the THUGS did very little because of the presence.  Oh. BTW...National Guard guns were loaded....yes...private military and law enforcement professional companies were active also.  I know because I was in law enforcement at that time.  The presence was there and there was no backing up in the presence of any threats... showing weakness in the presence of a threat only gives the bad side an edge.  The shops and businesses being burned are owned by both blacks and whites.

I tell everybody one thing....take the police out of the cities one day with no law enforcement presence and see what happens..

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 26, 2014, 01:45:11 AM
Ok, Mr. Politically UnCorrect here...

First...there should be a dusk to dawn curfew.
Second....if you are on the street after dusk, you better have a damn good reason or you go to jail...
Third....ALL LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT DEAD...Molotov cocktail in your hand, you ARE DEAD...

Lol. You can't be serious? Breaking curfew = Death Penalty?

Remind me never to never accept your authority.

The above is so tremendously disturbed, I sharn't even address it.

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 09:05:10 AM
Lol. You can't be serious? Breaking curfew = Death Penalty?

That's not what he wrote.

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 09:05:10 AM
Lol. You can't be serious? Breaking curfew = Death Penalty?

No, he said jail for breaking curfew.  The death penalty was for possession of a molotov cocktail.  Rock also made that recommendation, as someone who can guess what it might be like, to be the recipient of a molotov cocktail.  When you look at it like that, his view becomes easier to understand. ;)

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 25, 2014, 10:42:48 PM
I find this interesting...I guess I'm not normal.  I wanted to be a cop and corrections officer because I thought I could make a difference.  Soldier, cop, corrections officer....just wanted to make a difference.

Congratulations! But i must say this is nothing more than obligation when you decide to wear that uniform.

Being ethical is nothing to boast about.  ;)

QuoteInteresting set of opinions on this thread.  How many have actually walked a mile in the shoes of an officer and know what they deal with everyday?  Just a thought...

I understand your point, but i dont need to be a soldier, cop, corrections officer... to know when they are doing wrong. Police brutality and abuse of power clashes with the idea of serve and protect very often.

We see those news everyday. :(

There are theories about why this is the way it is. And they are never good for the crowd.

Foucault for example defines police as "the totality of measures which make work possible and necessary for all those who would not live without it.

QuotePolice

They say that it's here
To help!
They say that it's here
To protect!
I know that it can
Arrest you!
I know that it can
Take you!...

Police!
For those who need
Police!
For those who need
The police...

They tell you
To obey!
They tell you
To answer!
They tell you
To cooperate!
They tell you
To be respectful!...

Police!
For those who need
Police!
For those who need
The police...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEPeGzKByo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEPeGzKByo)  :)

Quote from: Sinny on November 25, 2014, 10:57:38 PM
The above seems to be ignoring the glaring fact that it is within the upper echlons of said organisations that have been infiltrated with these immoral persons.

Im not ignoring anything. You are pointing the cause you sees fit about the police instituition. Not everything has to be a conspiracy. Bad professional happens everywhere.

Now... when you talk about the INSTITUTION, thats a whole different story. You have to go to the roots of why police force exists. You think it is there to serve you?

"The strategic adversary is fascism... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us."
Michel Foucault

QuoteHow do I expect my local police force to maintain moral high standing whilst their BOSSES, Scotland Yard and MI6 are in up to 'it' by their necks?

As above... so below.

Quote from: RUSSO on November 26, 2014, 10:08:39 AM
"The strategic adversary is fascism... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us."

That was described in remarkably fascist terms.

Still, that's the other terrible thing about fascism; it's like a tarpit.  The harder you struggle to get out of it, the deeper in you sink.  I write tirades against fascism here myself.  You won't catch me going to the Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne to watch a dawn service to save my life, and you have all read the rambling screeds that I write against the police.

Yet I do so with the avatar of an Orcish Hunter wearing shoulder armour, who herself is a member of a race of berserkers.  I'm also currently sitting here reading Xenophon's Constitution of the Lacedaemonians.

But I'm not a fascist.  Honest.  Oh, no.  Not at all.  Not one bit.  You must be thinking of someone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvEtHWtUq1g

*Bats Orcish eyelashes angelically.*

This is what Zorgon and the veterans here do not understand about me.  What I contend and wrestle with internally, I do here externally.  South Node, Chiron, and Venus in Aries in the 12th house natally, kids.  Seven aspects to Pluto, including a Mars Pluto trine.  I hear the siren song of fascism as loudly as any of the rest of you.  The difference is, that I recognise it as the monster it is, and while I at times choose to indulge it in ways that are not harmful, (such as WoW as one example) for the most part I fight it.

As above, so below, indeed.

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 09:05:10 AM
Lol. You can't be serious? Breaking curfew = Death Penalty?

Remind me never to never accept your authority.

The above is so tremendously disturbed, I sharn't even address it.

Somehow but not surprisingly, you've got it wrong. You must be having a hard time reading and comprehending the English language.

I'll say it rrrrreeeeaaaalllllll ssssssllllllooooowwwwww.....

Looters will be shot DEAD

Break curfew....go to jail....

shall I repeat it?????


@PETRUS

"For how long should this curfew last, is the immediate question?  I suspect that current American authorities would be far too eager to make it permanent."

The curfew would last as long as the public would allow it.

Your last statement is totally ridiculous.

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 26, 2014, 12:31:52 PM
Your last statement is totally ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM9p2UxelFQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsLjNUdEWc4

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 26, 2014, 12:31:52 PM
Somehow but not surprisingly, you've got it wrong. You must be having a hard time reading and comprehending the English language.

I'll say it rrrrreeeeaaaalllllll ssssssllllllooooowwwwww.....

Looters will be shot DEAD

Break curfew....go to jail....

shall I repeat it?????

You say that like I get a lot of things wrong  ???

Well, I wasn't so wrong - It's still disturbing to think you want looters shot dead.

What such murderous tendencies you have  ::)

Why is it I have got my wrist slapped previously for stating on this forum, that I'd like to see murderous cops shot dead, but here we have a guy saying he like to see looters shot dead - and that's AOKAY. ?

No wonder we're living in a fascist state (the 5 eyes) - half of you are welcoming it with open arms.

Sinny i see the point you're trying to make. I understand it. What is distrubing is your notion that there isn't a difference between someone up holding the law and someone breaking the law.

You've worked your butt off building a business for your family. Countless hours of work, financial hardship thrown out the window because someone wants to steal and burn you out so they can get something for nothing?

"You say that like I get a lot of things wrong  ???"

Yes you do. IMO.... ;D

Killing someone is the last thing I would WANT to do but if it's my life, my family, my business (goes hand in hand)...give me a wide berth....

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 02:15:49 PM
That demands repayment or jail/community time - not death lmafo.

Forgive me if this seems like a betrayal, Sinny, but I have to agree with Rock, here.  The right of self-defense is fundamental.  While all possible care should of course be taken to avoid the loss of life, if it genuinely occurs within that context, then I consider that valid.  I will emphasise that I do not condone the right of self-defense being falsely used to justify what is in fact pre-emption; but true self-defense, I think we must allow.

Quote(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s635/Sinny_Dawes/mlk_zpse501efc6.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Sinny_Dawes/media/mlk_zpse501efc6.jpg.html)

In a conflict, whose life did MLK value more?  That of the defender, or the instigator?

No betrayal Petrus.

Apparently I'm the only one who knows how to shoot to wound on this forum....

Knee Caps - must be the Irish in me ;)

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 02:38:13 PM
No betrayal Petrus.

Apparently I'm the only one who knows how to shoot to wound on this forum....

Knee Caps - must be the Irish in me ;)

Shoot to wound?....I think he was trying...but he kept coming....
and what frame of mind was Brown in trying to take the officers gun?....to wound?....somehow I don't think so..

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 26, 2014, 03:00:58 PM
Shoot to wound?....I think he was trying...but he kept coming....

and what frame of mind was Brown in trying to take the officers gun?....to wound?....somehow I don't think so..

I'm a wee lass and I wouldn't need 6 bullets to stop a man.
If you need 6 bullets to stop one man, and his name is NOT Michael Myers, then maybe you need a different job.

But the crux of this whole situation is that there are underlying problems within our societies that need addressed.

Curfews and guns - will only aggravate the symptoms, not cure the cause of this unrest.

Problem is, institutionalised and indoctrinated folk apparently can't grasp that notion.

I let myself get sucked into this discussion again.  Couldn't help myself.  Well, off to find a thread dealing with some other subject.  The thread is one sided mostly but respect to all on their opinions.  I leave this thread with one thought.

Take all law enforcement out of the world for one day and see what happens...anarchy...every person with different views will do what they think is right and looking at basic human nature...it wouldn't be pretty.

                                INTERVAL



(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/smokim_zpsxmmbgjrc.gif)



                                          AND RESUME


                               

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 26, 2014, 03:36:21 PM
I let myself get sucked into this discussion again.  Couldn't help myself.  Well, off to find a thread dealing with some other subject.  The thread is one sided mostly but respect to all on their opinions.  I leave this thread with one thought.

Take all law enforcement out of the world for one day and see what happens...anarchy...every person with different views will do what they think is right and looking at basic human nature...it wouldn't be pretty.

Agree 100% SM...I know my opinions are too popular but what the hey...

Hope everyone has a nice Thanksgiving..... ;D 8)

Quote
The inability of the public officials to plan and prevent property damage, when the family of Michael Brown called for nonviolent protest, looks very suspicious to anyone who thinks about this. The fires seem very suspicious and done in such a way to take away from the actual facts of the killing of Mr. Brown.

In Cleveland a 12 year old black child was shot and killed by a policeman because he had a toy gun. That terrible act is being ignored because there was a fire in Ferguson. There have been a number of these killings since Michael Brown and the news media ignores these acts of violence against people the police should be working to protect. Something is very wrong.

greatlaurel

Quote
The aerial view of the car on fire showed nothing around it. It seemed an odd place to leave an unattended car. Some real journalist should request the records on that car. Was it involved in a wreck or in need of maintenance. Was it an old car? It looked like an older model car.

I did not watch any more "news" after that. Could not take the propaganda anymore.

The fires made a cunning way to not discuss the fact there was no indictment. The fires also distract from the killing of a 12 year old boy in Cleveland on a playground with a toy gun who did not point the toy gun at the policeman who killed him.

greatlaurel

Quote
provocateurs then began to attack that police car in order to draw protesters in to help them destroy it

ChisolmTrailDem

Quote
and many protesters telling them to stop. In the 9 or 10 streams I watched last night I saw pretty much exclusively peaceful protesters. How did this get so out of control without a mob behind it? 70+ armored cops couldn't control the 20-30 people who seemed to be friging everything up? Something smells strange and it's not my weed.

Alittleliberal

Quote
sidewalk and others immediately went over to try to stop him. As the others went to stop him someone else threw something and then it was too late. But what I saw very clearly was ONE man started it. I almost flew out of my chair yelling "stop him."

jwirr

Quote
taking all these 'anomalies' into consideration, I wonder about the identity of those 'hooligans.' Agent provocateurs, maybe? 

Ineeda

Quote
gunshots that kept the fire engines away but never seemed to hit anyone or keep the police from slowly wandering around.

Almost like it was choreographed.

yallerdawg

Quote
that I watched of the car attack, it appeared to me that the provocateurs were white. I saw no persons of color joining in on that event. I wondered precisely the same things about who they were and why that car was in that spot unattended. Doesn't add up unless the suspicions regarding TPTB are included in the process.

2naSalit

Quote
the "situation" and she said that she was "INTRIGUED" that a prosecutor would wait until after 9 pm eastern to announce the findings of the Grand jury, that it made absolutely NO SENSE. I told her that I felt it was because they were setting up chaos, kill people, arrest INNOCENT people and be able to claim that everyone who was contradicting them was lying because it was dark. You would also have trouble seeing the skin colour of the people involved because well, it would be dark. She was raised in the UK and is amazed by the BLATANT racist attitudes of so much of American government and LEO's. I responded, "Welcome to America".

Ecumenist

Quote
The national guard was there for christ's sake, and there weren't gobs of people clogging the streets. I wholeheartedly agree with your post. The whole entire thing was orchestrated

Avalux

Quote
my daughter was there at Ferguson PD right when that happened (she left when the tear gas started)...based on what she saw, what I saw on the live feeds and on TV, it certainly looked like a plant to me.

Hundreds of cops, the Mo. National Guard, Homeland Security and the FBI...they left a county cop car sitting RIGHT there, no one watching it?

Call me a CT if you want, but I know what I saw and what I am seeing.

Aside from the slap in the face to justice, this whole thing, starting with the choices made by ONE cop, is going to cost the county, the city and the state so much money. Money that could have been used to actually help the people!

My mother lives in St. Louis county, but I am so hoping for a HUGE snow storm this year! The county is not going to have the resources without going in the hole and then they can explain to the tax payers WHY! (Those who have not figured it out by now may see).

logosoco

Quote
I distinctly saw on the TV footage a guy spraying down a cop car with lighter fluid. Maybe it was a different car...this was the one on the live feed that had its windows smashed out...but I remembered thinking to myself at that point - "That is really weird to see a guy THAT close to uniformed police and riot police and to be actively dousing a squad car with flammable liquids?"

Smells funny sometimes for a reason...

Moostache

Quote
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that any members of the community who get high and like to riot aren't out and about at 8:00 am.

So why would they NOT want to announce at, say, 9:00 am, giving time for people to get to work, and then block of the streets where the last protests occurred and strategically post peace officers where most needed?

It's pretty clear that some of this is MIHOP, they had months to plan.

Plan what? That's the question.

They sure didn't plan for peace, but then neither did Wilson that sad day.

NYC_SKP

Quote
..... with what was first assumed to be tear gas but turned out to be smoke deployed by the police. The cops said something like it is there to confuse the protesters (I could be wrong on the wording)... But anyway. My first thought was WTF. They are trying to incite a riot. Nothing like turning the area in to a battle zone to calm the crowd 

Hassin Bin Sober

Quote
The city of Ferguson craftily baited the media with early announcements of a statement, and then kept postponing it (it seems) which only made it all more dramatic.

Then they wait until dark, which makes it utterly impossible to see what is going on and provides cover for all kinds of mischief.

How they didn't see this coming is beyond me, unless they say it coming and wanted it to go this way.

I suppose it could have been worse, but it did what they wanted it to do, make the community look bad and distract from the real problem.

NYC_SKP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025867526

How about we obtain all the facts before we sentence these 'hooligans' to death?

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 26, 2014, 03:36:21 PM
Take all law enforcement out of the world for one day and see what happens...anarchy...every person with different views will do what they think is right and looking at basic human nature...it wouldn't be pretty.

I do not advocate the complete removal of all police, Space.  As odd as it may seem, I am actually on the side of the police in this instance, but that is simply because in my assessment, that is where the evidence leads.

If I thought Brown was innocent, then I would also consider him worthy of support.

Quote from: petrus4 on November 26, 2014, 04:51:01 PM
I do not advocate the complete removal of all police, Space.  As odd as it may seem, I am actually on the side of the police in this instance, but that is simply because in my assessment, that is where the evidence leads.

If I thought Brown was innocent, then I would also consider him worthy of support.

I'm not particularly concerned about this one individual case - which DID NOT require 6 bullets IMO - but about the systematic underlying problems, which I'm sure I don't need mention again. 

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 04:59:52 PM
I'm not particularly concerned about this one individual case - which DID NOT require 6 bullets IMO - but about the systematic underlying problems, which I'm sure I don't need mention again.

As far as I am concerned, we need to be far more concerned about individual cases, than we do about, "systemic underlying problems."  Justice is not served by placing vague abstractions ahead of real crimes.  If Brown was guilty, then that needs to become known, and Wilson needs to become exonerated.  If the black community are upset about that, because Brown being an aggressor does not fit with the civil rights narrative about how blacks are supposedly always victims, then I doubt they will need to wait long to get more grist for their mill.  A white person in the LAPD or similar will very predictably commit a racially motivated crime, before long.

This is the problem with that idea, Sinny.  The civil rights movement itself wants to focus on "systemic underlying problems," rather than on individual cases, because focus on individual cases might bring to light the inconvenient truth, that black people are not always the angelic, innocent victims that they are made out to be.  Black people are human to the same degree as any other ethnic group, which means that at times, yes, they do commit violent crimes.

Neither side is perfect.  Neither side is innocent.  I will openly say that I detest civil rights, and that I will continue to detest it for as long as the agenda of civil rights, or indeed minority advocacy in general, is merely to advance the cause of social dominance rather than equality, for the minority in question.  It isn't just blacks who do it.  Feminism does it, and the gay movement does it.

They do not care about the truth.  All they care about is that they get what they want, and they also do not particularly care about who really gets hurt in the process, despite claiming that they do.

  A young black male, standing about 6 foot and weighing
around 295 pounds,bullied a store clerk,stole a hand full
cigars,encountered a white police officer doing his job, and
proceded to beat on said officer until getting shot and killed. The black community retaliated by burning their
town. Jackson and Sharpton showed up to lend support.
  About the same time, in a town close to my home, a
black 17year old girl was walking home.She was kidnaped,
tortured,murdered, set on fire and dumped by the road.
Jackson and Sharpton did not show up,no police cars burned, no demonstration.Except for the girls family, and
the hated police,no one cared.They picked up what
was left of this girl,found strange dna, tracked down and
arrested the suspected killer.He was also black,and no one
cared..So far this year,nearly a hundred young black people have been killed in this same town, mostly by other
black people, and no one cared.Jackson and Sharpton were
no shows.Crime and murder know no race, creed, age, or religion..Maybe the human race is just plain evil.
  rubicon

Quote from: 08rubicon on November 26, 2014, 06:40:29 PM
Crime and murder know no race, creed, age, or religion.

Exactly.

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 25, 2014, 10:42:48 PM
I find this interesting...I guess I'm not normal.

You are normal  just 'old school'  :P

QuoteI wanted to be a cop and corrections officer because I thought I could make a difference.  Soldier, cop, corrections officer....just wanted to make a difference.

Once upon a time....

The cop on the beat was one you knew and trusted,,, you were sure you were safe and they were looking out for YOU. If you were not a criminal you had nothing to fear from the cops

THIS was THEN   

(http://stateimpact.npr.org/teamblog/files/2012/02/beatcop.png)

Today I see the local news and get stories like THIS

Third Amendment Violated? Nev. Police Allegedly Invade Family's Home to Use During SWAT Call, Arrest Two for 'Obstruction' When Owner Refuses. "Henderson police arrested a family for refusing to let officers use their homes as lookouts for a domestic violence investigation of their neighbors,"

(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Story.jpg)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/08/third-amendment-violated-nev-police-allegedly-invade-familys-home-to-use-during-swat-call-arrest-two-for-obstruction-when-owner-refuses/

Okay so that homeowner sued and won...  BUT the only reason they did this was because it was hot outside and they wanted a cool place to use for operations 

"Police officers supposedly discharged a few pepperball rounds in the direction of Mitchell's dog before allegedly locking the family pet outside for hours in the Nevada heat."


(http://www.thedailysheeple.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/copsthennow1.jpg)

QuoteInteresting set of opinions on this thread.  How many have actually walked a mile in the shoes of an officer and know what they deal with everyday?  Just a thought...

I understand that most cops are still decent and have to deal with the worst that society has to offer

BUT  since when does that translate into being forced off the road, a gun pulled on ya... only to find the reason you were pulled over was because your tail light was out?

Since when is it okay in a traffic stop to Taser an older woman because she is nervous and takes too long fumbling in her purse to get her ID out?

The problem is "We the people..." rarely see the GOOD cops... because it's the GOONS with the Gestapo mind that interact with us. The GOOD cops are not harrassing normal citizens... the GOOD cops are not commandeering your home to stake out the neighbor... the GOOD cops are not shooting people because they were sleeping on BLM land

Sure we can sue for wrongful arrest etc... but WHEN did it get so bad that we HAVE to go that route?

The incident with the tail light... he apoplogized as he realized I was merely turning into my driveway and not running from him I did not press the matter...  The time they sent detectives to ask about my 'meth lab" (mineral assay lab in the garage) I got a written and verbal apology from the commander... because that cop looking for a perp had no business entering my garage without warning  seeing as we were all home

So what do "we the people ..." do?  Especially when the police will NOT control their own and rarely (as far as we see) punish bad cops

Thank you for being a GOOD cop

8)

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 04:59:52 PM
I'm not particularly concerned about this one individual case - which DID NOT require 6 bullets IMO - but about the systematic underlying problems, which I'm sure I don't need mention again.

I disagree... we DO need to look at each individual case... because as hu-mons going about our business we rarely give a damn about "the systematic underlying problems".  Mostly because we don't care much until it's at our doorstep. but also because it's too much to grasp...

If more people showed outrage and took action on this case by case... maybe something would get down to route out the evil... but because we don't do much more than rant about it in forums (and that is only by a few) the "underlying systematic problems" never get addressed and are allowed to continue

If "We the people..." would march on the local police building and demand justice when there is a bad cop incident... maybe there would be less bad cops.  The way it is now  the 'blue shield' generally just covers it up. Rarely is a bad cop taken to task or fired.  Sure they pay out the law suits... but that is just tax payers money right?

If "We the people.." would actually stand up en masse and demand a bad cop gets removed... MAYBE things will go back to Andy of Mayberry

But maybe "We the people.." don't DO that because peaceful protest today is met with THIS

(http://www.strangepolice.com/images/content/148385.jpg)

Spacemaverick.... when was the order given that "We the people..." are now the enemy and no longer need the "Serve and Protect" moniker on the squad cars?

And I repeat  MOST cops are good cops... but the good cops don't really interact with "We the people.." on a one to one basis like they used to to build trust.  Most people see cops when they are getting busted for going 5 miles over the limit, have a busted tail light, or rolled through a stop sign... and many get tassed for that :P  Hard to build trust like that when the local gang across the street is doing drive by shootings and no one busts them

Far as I know cops are still public servants  paid for by "We the people..."


The other day I was at the DMV.... my wife getting a DL...  It was hot outside so I waited in the area for the tests while she was on the road for 10 minute test...


The chairs they use are those tiny school desks with the little flip table. A normal adult can barely sit in them.

Along comes the security guard and announces "This area is reserved for driver tests ONLY   If you are not taking the test you need to leave and go to the general waiting area.  I will be back around and anyone not complying will  be escorted from the building!"

WTF?  I reminded him that this is a PUBLIC building and his salary was paid by "We the people.."  He never did come round a second time while I was there.   8)

But this is the security mind at its 'finest'  When I renewed my DL and my daughter her State ID, the lady said that in Jan 2016 state ID will no longer be accepted as Homeland Security has changed the rules and you will need a new ID

Ah well... even in NAZI Germany you were fine if you had your papers

8)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSd1r-DLQ38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSd1r-DLQ38

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 01:11:18 PM
No wonder we're living in a fascist state (the 5 eyes) - half of you are welcoming it with open arms.

I cannot name a single incident in the U.S. where authority fired on looters simply for the act of looting. It's a recurring plot in Hollywood movies and its a common thing people fear whenever unrest comes (maybe a connection there)  but with the exception of a couple specific incidents in the late 1960's which may have seen it happen? I just can't recall it. Cops in New Orleans actually stood in criminal trials for shooting at people on an overpass who they thought were shooting themselves, for how I think it was limited for actual incidents that happened, even there.

The looters getting shot seem to be from private citizens, when it happens. I guess that is a professional hazard of being a looter, as far as that goes.

I agree with you on most of this. But what happened in Ferguson was a planned event. Everyone knew it would happen it was just a matter of when. The governor held out the guard on purpose. Just my thoughts anyway. As far as shooting looters, that will never happen cause they need their destruction, their chaos, they only let it go so far and then it ends. I'm just sorry for the business owners that had to endure it. :-\

Wrabbit2000

you're absolutely correct...just a pipe dream of hollywood...it's a threat unless you actually fire on the po po...

Quote from: zorgon on November 26, 2014, 07:29:33 PM
Once upon a time....

The cop on the beat was one you knew and trusted,,, you were sure you were safe and they were looking out for YOU. If you were not a criminal you had nothing to fear from the cops

THIS was THEN   

(http://stateimpact.npr.org/teamblog/files/2012/02/beatcop.png)

I don't know the US society enough to be sure if I'm right or wrong, but I think that's (at least part of) the problem, the "cop on the beat" now is not on his own area, he is a stranger in the neighbourhood and not part of it.

Almost all those bad police actions I see reported from the US make me think that the police acts that way because they are afraid of "the other side". I don't know if they feel like everybody is a criminal trying to kill them, if they are afraid of too many guns in the wrong hands or what, but, to me, it looks like insecurity.

Some years ago I saw some statistics about police forces, and one thing I noticed is that Portugal has bigger police agents per capita than the US, so it looked to me like the US is understaffed in terms of police. I have to look at some statistics. :)

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 26, 2014, 09:03:42 PM
As far as shooting looters, that will never happen cause they need their destruction, their chaos, they only let it go so far and then it ends. I'm just sorry for the business owners that had to endure it. :-\

YET!!!....

The LOOTERS can shoot the rescue workers and these Anarchists here have no problem with that :P

Mainstream media DID at least cover THAT live during Katrina

And we wonder why the Aliens don't show themselves  8)

Quote from: ArMaP on November 26, 2014, 10:12:29 PM
I don't know the US society enough to be sure if I'm right or wrong, but I think that's (at least part of) the problem, the "cop on the beat" now is not on his own area, he is a stranger in the neighbourhood and not part of it.

Well for the most part there is no more "Cop on the beat"  New York has some still... Las Vegas has bicycle patrols on the tourist strip and a few cities still have Mounted Police in the big parks

But the neighborhood cop that USED to be able to vouch for you for a bank loan is ancient history. When they still have some they get rotated so no one can get friendly with them

Some of our TV shows (and we have MANY on cops at all levels... try to show the cops as the good guys  but almost every other episode has a "Cop gone bad" script. In those stories at least the bad cop is taken out by the good cops.... 

too bad THAT part of Hollywood cannot be reflected in real life  8)

OH and the TV cops ALWAYS shoot to kill... even when they really need that guy as a witness...

QuoteAlmost all those bad police actions I see reported from the US make me think that the police acts that way because they are afraid of "the other side". I don't know if they feel like everybody is a criminal trying to kill them, if they are afraid of too many guns in the wrong hands or what, but, to me, it looks like insecurity.

I agree  When it takes four big cops in body armor to subdue an unarmed citizen... you have a problem

Here is a good example... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWQ5lu8jSMc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWQ5lu8jSMc

QuoteSome years ago I saw some statistics about police forces, and one thing I noticed is that Portugal has bigger police agents per capita than the US, so it looked to me like the US is understaffed in terms of police. I have to look at some statistics. :)

There IS a shortage of cops in some areas but look at that video  ONE homeless guy whose only offense was sleeping on BLM land. He was picking up his stuff and coming down when they shot.

A domestic vilonec case here in my area  Guy yelling at his wife outside...  no violence just yelling at that point.  The cops had 20 cars and one helicopter on the scene. They had all the roads blocked around it and we had to wait to be allowed to go home. There were no guns involved... the yelling was over quickly but seemed like the whole police force was there.

So then we get this one from Arizona...

A woman calls 911 and says a guy has a gun and a baby...  cops respond...  One cop shoots guy in head... detectives find NO GUN  (but do say he did have guns in the house) SOwhat? I have guns in the house too So do most out west here.

Point is he wasn't carrying... but the one cop shot him anyway... Turns out this cop has shot SIX people dead... but he is a "good officer"

Stay out of New Mexico and Arizona. Even though the cops have been forced to wear lapel pin cameras, they still hold the record for fatal shootings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMDIK4bOpwk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMDIK4bOpwk


OH and if your out in the desert hunting rocks and minerals, which is LEGAL and considered a 'recreational activity' even in some state parks...  you might have THIS happen

bBsj89p3RHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBsj89p3RHE

Quote from: petrus4 on November 26, 2014, 06:39:09 PM
As far as I am concerned, we need to be far more concerned about individual cases, than we do about, "systemic underlying problems."  Justice is not served by placing vague abstractions ahead of real crimes.  If Brown was guilty, then that needs to become known, and Wilson needs to become exonerated.  If the black community are upset about that, because Brown being an aggressor does not fit with the civil rights narrative about how blacks are supposedly always victims, then I doubt they will need to wait long to get more grist for their mill.  A white person in the LAPD or similar will very predictably commit a racially motivated crime, before long.

This is the problem with that idea, Sinny.  The civil rights movement itself wants to focus on "systemic underlying problems," rather than on individual cases, because focus on individual cases might bring to light the inconvenient truth, that black people are not always the angelic, innocent victims that they are made out to be.  Black people are human to the same degree as any other ethnic group, which means that at times, yes, they do commit violent crimes.

Neither side is perfect.  Neither side is innocent.  I will openly say that I detest civil rights, and that I will continue to detest it for as long as the agenda of civil rights, or indeed minority advocacy in general, is merely to advance the cause of social dominance rather than equality, for the minority in question.  It isn't just blacks who do it.  Feminism does it, and the gay movement does it.

They do not care about the truth.  All they care about is that they get what they want, and they also do not particularly care about who really gets hurt in the process, despite claiming that they do.

Petrus, allow me to be clearer, I find inividual cases very important, but I do not allow them to distract from the larger picture. (That's the aim of the MSN)

Individual cases become targeted, disrupted and distorted - we must always allow for the bigger picture.

I do not care if the the dead individual is a criminal, or even a evil human being - the fact of the matter is, cops have no authority to decide that on the spot without due cause.
(Please don't make me expand on the phrase 'due cause')

Zorgons post on past and present adds the sentiment that I cannot type in this post.

Not one single other person in this thread mentioned the possibility of Psy-Ops for the most recent events in Fergy - which is always a given in todays fascist society.

How small minded even the open-minded have become.

My views on individual cases are presented in my post to Petrus.

With all due respect, I don't just sit here and rant on forums, I have a very busy life style which also includes petitioning outside my my local police headquarters (I think there's a youtube video somewhere), engaging all local MP's in discussion via email, and 'popping my head' round the local 'Truth Movement' events for networking and brainstorming...

Not to mention holding down the slaves 9-5, and completing their indoctrinated higher educational system, in addition to exploring my own interests, as documented here on PRC.     

Sounds to me like there are a lot of 'back seat' internet 'know it alls' who want to rain on our parade.

I'm sure you feel the same in regards to your DOT MIL work.

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 10:58:50 PM
Not one single other person in this thread mentioned the possibility of Psy-Ops for the most recent events in Fergy - which is always a given in todays fascist society.

I didn't mention it because, frankly, seeing how people react to something written in a forum, I don't think that's needed.  :)

Quote from: sinny on November 26, 2014, 07:58:46 PM
My views on individual cases are presented in my post to Petrus.

read that AFTER I posted  :P

QuoteWith all due respect, I don't just sit here and rant on forums,

My bad that was directed at the generic 'you'  not YOU

QuoteI have a very busy life style which also includes petitioning outside my my local police headquarters (I think there's a youtube video somewhere), engaging all local MP's in discussion via email, and 'popping my head' round the local 'Truth Movement' events for networking and brainstorming...

So are you the Pitchfork Revolutionary... like the Olde American Revolution...

(http://generic.pixmac.com/4/portrait-of-young-girl-with-pitchfork-beauty-picture-4457.jpg)

or the more deadly Western Gal type?

(http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/51903.jpg)

QuoteNot to mention holding down the slaves 9-5, and completing their indoctrinated higher educational system, in addition to exploring my own interests, as documented here on PRC.   

::)

QuoteSounds to me like there are a lot of 'back seat' internet 'know it alls' who want to rain on our parade.

Most people on forums are only here to rain on parades. Just look at ATS ratio of trolls and skeptics vs good story presenters

QuoteI'm sure you feel the same in regards to your DOT MIL work.

I did yes... but I stopped worrying about it. They can't handle the truth, until  it bites them in the ass


Meanwhile... somewhere on North Korea

A new toy for the kids

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2409/3542440588_413b2fd5c2.jpg)

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 10:58:50 PM
Not one single other person in this thread mentioned the possibility of Psy-Ops for the most recent events in Fergy - which is always a given in todays fascist society.

Not ONE person has yet explained to me how all the daily news these days is all Psy-ops  and to what end? Just to stir up the forums chat rooms and social networks?

The vast majority just ignore it for the most part, hense why no one is posting about that aspect :P and Amy isn't here  8)

For those just tuning in: The KKK has threatened #Ferguson (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ferguson?src=hash) protesters with deadly force. So we launched #HoodsOff (https://twitter.com/hashtag/HoodsOff?src=hash).

4:52 PM - 16 Nov 2014



#OpKKK: Anonymous hacks KKK websites, Twitter over Ferguson threats — RT USA (http://rt.com/usa/206067-anonymous-hacks-kkk-accounts/)

RT reported previously that self-proscribed members of Anonymous, or Anons, responded to the KKK's stated intentions to harm activists in Ferguson by compromising a Twitter account related to the Klan while at the same time rendering affiliated websites unavailable through a campaign of distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks.

On Monday, Anons published a statement by way of the affected Twitter account, @KuKluxKlanUSA, explaining the status of the headline-grabbing operation launched over the weekend on November 16.

"Before going any further, we'd like to address our idea of freedom. After exposing Klan members and seizing the Klan's websites and Twitter accounts, Anonymous members faced much criticism regarding freedom. Anonymous stands for freedom, so why would we strip someone of his or her freedom of speech? The Ku Klux Klan is a terrorist group. The blood of thousands of human beings are on the hands of Klansmen. In most of Anonymous' member's eyes, the KKK no longer has the right to express their racist, bigoted opinions," the message reads in part.


Later, the statement suggests that the compromised KKK account contained evidence that could potentially unmask some Klansmen and is currently being disseminated by hacktivists. Anons say they want to ensure they identify those individuals with utmost accuracy, though, adding "It would be against everything Anonymous does if we publically released information of the innocent."



Published on Nov 15, 2014
In the light of threats made on protesters #opKKK has been initiated to target all internet media and leaking all information and profiles to public #opferguson


East Coast Anonymous on Twitter: "Anonymous around the world are Ddos'ing (KKK) servers seen here on this digital attack map. @OpFerguson #OpKKK http://t.co/trkNN5vk73" (https://twitter.com/EastCoastAnony/status/534179622087163905/photo/1)


Published on Nov 15, 2014
In the light of threats made on protesters #opKKK has been initiated to target all internet media and leaking all information and profiles to public #opferguson


Charlie Dench on Twitter: "@EastCoastAnony @AnonUKRadio @OpFerguson @NorseCorp Here's a cooler map... http://t.co/FkdpRuHWjJ" (https://twitter.com/DHS420/status/534518370734202880/photo/1)


Published on Nov 19, 2014
Anonymous have hacked the KKK's Twitter and other KKK websites in what is being hashtagged as #OpKKK.

The cyberattack was in response to death threats issued by the KKK against any potential protesters in Ferguson. This is all leading up to the St. Louis grand jury decision on whether or not Police officer Darren Wilson will be indicted in the shooting death of teenager Michael Brown. We look at the free speech issue associated with the #OpKKK, in this Lip News clip with Mark Sovel and Jackie Koppell.



'We will hunt you down': KKK threatens to shoot Anonymous 'n***** lovers'

A bitter war of words between hacker collective Anonymous and the Ku Klux Klan risks spilling over into real violence, with the right-wing hate group allegedly threatening to shoot dead activists wearing the Guy Fawkes mask in southern Missouri.

Earlier this week, Anonymous sent out a tweet relating an alleged interaction between Frank Ancona (https://www.linkedin.com/pub/frank-ancona/57/49b/5a9), the self-described "Imperial Wizard of the Traditionalist American Knights," and a fellow KKK member.

In the missive, Ancona allegedly said those wandering around rural Missouri in a Guy Fawkes mask could "accidentally" find themselves in a hunter's crosshairs.

"Its deer hunting season here in southern Missouri, it's really easy to see how a hunter could mistake someone wearing one of those gay anonymous masks for the hind-end of a whitetail deer. Boom!!! Oops sorry it was an accident," the message reads.


Frank Ancona has now threatened to shoot anyone wearing Guy Fawkes mask in response to #HoodsOff #OpKKK

The masks really come off in the next message attributed to Ancona, with unveiled threats of violence and racist invective directed at the hacker collective.

The message claims the names of several Anonymous members have already been obtained, including that of "Commander X," described as "The Grand Wizard Of Anonymous," and another member operating under the handle @TrezSec.

"You pathetic n***** lovers are going down, we're NOT HIDING. WE'RE NOT ASHAMED OF WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE REPRESENT. THE INVISIBLE EMPIRE CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE OVERTHROWN, [sic]" the message signed with Anacona's name read (http://pastebin.com/3PuA4eS5).

"We will hunt you down and tear those masks from your face. You'll be strung up next to the chimps. On display for the whole world to see. The Klan is to be feared, not threatened."

On Wednesday, individuals claiming to be affiliated with Anonymous sent a video to News2Share saying they took the the statement as "a direct threat on our lives" that they would not stand for.


The video continued that hacktivists would employ every means necessary to defend themselves.
"If you attempt to aid the police [in the event of further civil unrest in Ferguson], just know that there are more of us out there than there are of you. But you will not know who we are. We are everywhere. We are among the protesters and we are even among you. Your violent ideology will not prevail in this fight."


They further told the police of Ferguson that if they responded to protesters in the city with violent tactics, they should know that they are "being watched very closely."

"You men have the guns and badges, but when you are on the side of the KKK, history will not look back on you kindly.

Take our warning. To the KKK and police, be peaceful, or you will face the consequences."

The two groups with a penchant for face-covering apparel began engaging in a perhaps unequal "cyber war" after the KKK threatened to use "lethal force" against protesters in Ferguson, Missouri.

On Sunday night, Anonymous listed the KKK websites it had taken offline on its Twitter feed, with reports of the attacks accompanied by the hashtag #OpKKK.


Even FarceB00k got into the action by removing this photo...apparently they chose the KKK over Anonymous... :P


The group also said (http://rt.com/usa/206651-anonymous-opkkk-klan-statement/) that information garnered from the seized Klan websites and Twitter accounts could help them unmask several KKK members, likely sparking the "we're NOT HIDING" triad.

On Thursday, Anonymous released a video claiming they had information from a whistleblower which they say would link the KKK to the Ferguson Police Department. The group will not release the information, however, saying its specificity would ultimately reveal the source. Instead, they vow to "hold this information until we can connect the dots ourselves."



Greetings Citizens of the world, we are Anonymous.

Many of you are already aware that anonymous has declared war on TAK KKK and other KKK organizations due to threats of violence in Ferguson by Grand Wizard Frank Ancona.

We will not stand by and let peaceful protesters be threatened by the likes of the KKK. In response to this threat we have exposed many of the TAK KKK members, taken down their websites, and seized control of their twitter accounts. Our message has been heard.

Our goal is to protect the protesters of Ferguson, and our fellow Anonymous from possible harm. Through our efforts Frank has agreed to step back, and let the protests continue unabated. He has given his word, and in response we have given ours.

Anonymous will ceasefire on TAK KKK and Frank's associates provided he stays true to his word.

We are always watching, and should the need arise, we are prepared to unleash the nukes.

We are anonymous
?we do not forgive
we do not forget?
Frank and TAK KKK if you do not hold up your end of the agreement
Expect us... Again.

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 27, 2014, 04:42:12 AM
"Its deer hunting season here in southern Missouri, it's really easy to see how a hunter could mistake someone wearing one of those gay anonymous masks for the hind-end of a whitetail deer. Boom!!! Oops sorry it was an accident," the message reads.

Hmmmmm

(http://robinfollette.com/wp-content/uploads/whitetail-flags.jpg)

meanwhile... in other News...

Justin Bieber seen in Anonymous mask

(http://cdn.eteknix.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/bieber_anonymous_mask.png)

The Anonymous Guy Fawkes mask is a symbol of resistance, the Hacktivist movement and online cyber-protest as well as sometimes even cyber-crime. But what does it become when "teenage pop sensation" Justin Bieber starts wearing it? Well evidently it doesn't become anything positive because Anonymous are already calling people to go after Justin Bieber for "making a mockery" of the Anonymous mask.

"Greetings citizens of the world we are Anonymous! It has come to our attention that Justin Bieber has made mockery of Anonymous. We now unite and make it known to Justin that Anonymous are not to be taken lightly"

In the event created by Anonymous they have pledged to "go after" Justin Bieber's Facebook page(s), his Twitter page(s), his PR companies and any personal email addresses they can find. "#OPButtHurtForBieber" as the campaign is called intends to show Justin Bieber that he should never be seen in public again wearing the Anonymous mask.

Do you think it is fair that Anonymous have targeted Justin Bieber?

http://www.eteknix.com/anonymous-hackers-target-bieber-for-wearing-their-mask-major-embarrasment/


Sigh.....

Quote from: Sinny on November 26, 2014, 10:58:50 PM
I do not care if the the dead individual is a criminal, or even a evil human being - the fact of the matter is, cops have no authority to decide that on the spot without due cause.
(Please don't make me expand on the phrase 'due cause')

I overwhelmingly agree with this.  Due process is the main difference between a civil society and the law of the jungle.  I was particularly horrified by the Judge Dredd-inspired approach that was taken with Christopher Dorner.

QuoteNot one single other person in this thread mentioned the possibility of Psy-Ops for the most recent events in Fergy - which is always a given in todays fascist society.

I personally doubt that Ferguson was planned, but you've probably heard the saying to never let a good crisis go to waste.  As such, the end result is probably the same.

QuoteHow small minded even the open-minded have become.

I hope this is not directed at me.

Quote from: petrus4 on November 27, 2014, 12:08:28 PM

QuoteHow small minded even the open-minded have become.

I hope this is not directed at me.

Has to be :P or it would be directed at me  8)

LOL Usually when comments like that appear it's time to move to a new thread, because it shows that the speaker has already dismissed anyone else's opinion as having no value

::)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 27, 2014, 04:42:12 AM
"Before going any further, we'd like to address our idea of freedom. After exposing Klan members and seizing the Klan's websites and Twitter accounts, Anonymous members faced much criticism regarding freedom. Anonymous stands for freedom, so why would we strip someone of his or her freedom of speech? The Ku Klux Klan is a terrorist group. The blood of thousands of human beings are on the hands of Klansmen. In most of Anonymous' member's eyes, the KKK no longer has the right to express their racist, bigoted opinions,"

In other words, Anonymous endorses and defends freedom of speech, unless the people exercising said right, are people who Anonymous have decided that they do not like.  In response to this, I am reminded of Ben Franklin's statement that the entire purpose of the right of free speech, was to protect unpopular speech.  The entire concept of "hate speech," is a fascist subversion and violation of the right to free speech, which is why I will never acknowledge it as a legitimate concept.

The Klan are disgusting.  They are an absolute obscenity.  I have never disagreed with that, and I never will.  There are times when I have felt that I would be willing to literally tear off my white flesh, if changing my own skin colour were possible, rather than continue to share anything in common with those animals.  I know them better than most of you.  I have spent hours in furious arguments with people from Stormfront on 4chan.  When a friend of mine converted to the religion Asatru, which is the worship of the Norse Gods, I was likewise invited to do so, and white supremacy is part of the reason why I refused.

It is here, in fact, that we come to another part of the reason behind my avatar on this forum.  Avatar is a valid analogy for the developmental process which I went through in the years leading to that film's release; said process is a big part of the reason why I live in Nimbin today.  White supremacists can not call me a race traitor, however, because while I may be white, I have never been one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A71gopP1SsY

Yet my point here, is that while they disgust me, I will still not condone the removal of their right to speak.  The reason why I will not, is because if their right to speak is taken, then it creates a scenario where it becomes acceptable for anyone else's right to speak to be taken as well; including mine.  If free speech does not exist for all of us, then it exists for none of us.

Our integrity is neither defined nor judged by how we treat angels, but how we treat demons.  If we do not recognise the rights of those we despise most, then said rights do not exist at all.

For the record, Thorfourwinds, it is also here that I formally shake the dust from my feet, regarding Anonymous.  You may consider them to still be worthy of your attention, but after this, I do not.  Anonymous are no longer the group that I once admired.  They have been hijacked by the Marxist useful idiots that I have described elsewhere.

Quote from: petrus4 on November 27, 2014, 12:08:28 PM
I hope this is not directed at me.

Nope.

Quote from: zorgon on November 27, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Has to be :P or it would be directed at me  8)

Both are wrong.

Quotebecause it shows that the speaker has already dismissed anyone else's opinion as having no value

Assumptions..

 ;) ;D

Is it all a Sandy Hook, a psyop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5X0KETO78

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5X0KETO78


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYqOlUlFcWY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYqOlUlFcWY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5f0CFLR8Rk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5f0CFLR8Rk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jayJ4Wq8lbI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jayJ4Wq8lbI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGkqqGeUnWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGkqqGeUnWc


It surely has all the earmarks...

Some very pertinent questions posed throughout those video's ...

Quote from: Amaterasu on November 27, 2014, 05:26:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jayJ4Wq8lbI

The stuff about Erica Artz is particularly amusing.  She's the usual evil, photogenic blonde with a perfectly symmetrical face and jawline.  Reminds me of Wellaware1's coverage of Seal Team Six. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45w9GlL7deU

Go and watch this if you haven't already.  It outlines the entire strategy that these clowns keep using; they've been doing it over and over again.  These sociopathic jokers are always extremely physically attractive, with very strong facial symmetry, and often with features reminiscent of either Prince Charles or his father.  Makes me wonder whether there is some truth in Ben Stewart's or David Icke's talk about the "bloodline," after all.

I made another thread (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5738.0) here a while ago about the trend of sociopathic models being used and regularly sighted during false flag/psyop events, as well.  If you look into it, you'll find that it is disturbingly common.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtXOVKNazYU

Quote from: zorgon on November 27, 2014, 05:30:34 AM
meanwhile... in other News...

Justin Bieber seen in Anonymous mask

(http://cdn.eteknix.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/bieber_anonymous_mask.png)

The Anonymous Guy Fawkes mask is a symbol of resistance, the Hacktivist movement and online cyber-protest as well as sometimes even cyber-crime. But what does it become when "teenage pop sensation" Justin Bieber starts wearing it? Well evidently it doesn't become anything positive because Anonymous are already calling people to go after Justin Bieber for "making a mockery" of the Anonymous mask.

"Greetings citizens of the world we are Anonymous! It has come to our attention that Justin Bieber has made mockery of Anonymous. We now unite and make it known to Justin that Anonymous are not to be taken lightly"

In the event created by Anonymous they have pledged to "go after" Justin Bieber's Facebook page(s), his Twitter page(s), his PR companies and any personal email addresses they can find. "#OPButtHurtForBieber" as the campaign is called intends to show Justin Bieber that he should never be seen in public again wearing the Anonymous mask.

Do you think it is fair that Anonymous have targeted Justin Bieber?

http://www.eteknix.com/anonymous-hackers-target-bieber-for-wearing-their-mask-major-embarrasment/


Sigh.....

Idiots.  ::)

Zorgon posed this question to me earlier in this thread:

'Spacemaverick.... when was the order given that "We the people..." are now the enemy and no longer need the "Serve and Protect" moniker on the squad cars?'

You may think this stinks but some departments take a certain ruling by the US Supreme Court literally.

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=341&issue_id=72004

Chief's Counsel

No Duty to Protect: Two Exceptions

By L. Cary Unkelbach, Assistant County Attorney Representing the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office, Centennial, Colorado


Law enforcement generally does not have a federal constitutional duty to protect one private person from another. For example, if a drunk driver injures a pedestrian or a drug dealer beats up an informant, agencies and their officers usually would not be liable for those injuries because there was no duty to protect.

Nonetheless, agencies need to be aware of two exceptions, referred to as the special-relationship and the state-created danger theories, which, if pled and proven, may establish a constitutional duty to protect by police. While plaintiffs who are harmed by third parties often raise both theories when they sue police, the state-created danger exception appears to be litigated more frequently than the special relationship exception, which often is more easily analyzed and defined.

Since its 1989 holding that a duty to protect generally does not exist, the U.S. Supreme Court has not directly spoken on the two exception theories that have since evolved.1 Instead, many federal courts have analyzed, defined and applied these exceptions to a variety of fact patterns. Not all of these lower court decisions are consistent with one another. Agencies, in reviewing their policies, should be aware of the approaches taken by the federal courts in their circuit. This article gives a brief overview of the different judicial approaches to a federal due process claim but does not address whether a failure to protect action could be brought under state law.

This is not the whole article...the rest is at the link...suggested reading on the duty to serve and protect...there is not a constitutional duty to protect.  (can you believe it?0

CASE LAW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The decision, with an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia and dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed.

For hours on the night of June 22, 1999, Jessica Gonzales tried to get the Castle Rock police to find and arrest her estranged husband, Simon Gonzales, who was under a court order to stay 100 yards away from the house. He had taken the children, ages 7, 9 and 10, as they played outside, and he later called his wife to tell her that he had the girls at an amusement park in Denver.

Ms. Gonzales conveyed the information to the police, but they failed to act before Mr. Gonzales arrived at the police station hours later, firing a gun, with the bodies of the girls in the back of his truck. The police killed him at the scene.

The theory of the lawsuit Ms. Gonzales filed in federal district court in Denver was that Colorado law had given her an enforceable right to protection by instructing the police, on the court order, that "you shall arrest" or issue a warrant for the arrest of a violator. She argued that the order gave her a "property interest" within the meaning of the 14th Amendment's due process guarantee, which prohibits the deprivation of property without due process.

more at the link above

I could go on and on.  I will say this...most of the police dept.'s in my area serve and protect...but the main duty of law enforcement officers according to the SCOTUS (US Supreme Court) a Law enforement officer is constitutionally bound to enforce the law but not constitutionally bound to protect.  They are to serve the public at large.  This is not my opinion but comes from our Supreme Court.  Zorgon...I hope this answers your question adequately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOuECDOfa5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOuECDOfa5g

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 27, 2014, 09:03:31 PM
I could go on and on.  I will say this...most of the police dept.'s in my area serve and protect...but the main duty of law enforcement officers according to the SCOTUS (US Supreme Court) a Law enforement officer is constitutionally bound to enforce the law but not constitutionally bound to protect.  They are to serve the public at large.  This is not my opinion but comes from our Supreme Court.  Zorgon...I hope this answers your question adequately.

To me that sounds like the result of the suing mentality in the US, so they made that decision to avoid the police being sued for not protecting everybody.

God I had to put my glasses on ,
Not really ,
I remember a time when Peggy could see things in a more all seeing light.
Why bicker about what was inevitable.
GUns and coppers and people who need more than they have.
It's never going to end up well.
If you create an underclass , your gonna have to try and regulate it.
It's always gonna bite ya.
And here is ferguson .
Here we are.

Quote from: ArMaP on November 27, 2014, 09:13:18 PM
To me that sounds like the result of the suing mentality in the US, so they made that decision to avoid the police being sued for not protecting everybody.

Just my opinion but I think you are quite correct.

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 27, 2014, 09:03:31 PM
This is not the whole article...the rest is at the link...suggested reading on the duty to serve and protect...there is not a constitutional duty to protect.  (can you believe it?0

Yes I CAN believe it.  So basically it appears that each individual force has the option to choose whether to protect the citizens or harass them :P

But "We the people..." make a general assumption...

We have a MILITARY that is supposed to defend this country and its citizen's from attack by our 'enemies' whomever they may be. As far as I can tell that is how it is written in the Constitution

We have a MILITIA that is supposed to protect us citizen's in times when Gov Goon Squads get out of control (to wit  the Bundy Ranch case)

We have a POLICE force to uphold the laws that "we the people..." SUPPOSEDLY have put in place to protect us from those who would abuse us

THESE are the basic assumptions of "We the people..."  And I know MANY in the military and on the police force that do actually understand this... even if it's not clearly written down as a 'duty'

When you hire a security guard it is resonable to expect that the guard will do his best to protect you.

Do "We the people..." not elect our Sheriffs and pay the police to protect us? Maybe it's not a 'duty' but it certainly is in the job description

::)

Quote from: petrus4 on November 27, 2014, 12:44:58 PM
In other words, Anonymous endorses and defends freedom of speech, unless the people exercising said right, are people who Anonymous have decided that they do not like.

Ran into the same thing back in the Hippy Era...  The hippies were preaching free love and do your own thing. Well at the time MY own thing was having a brush cut, wearing a trench coat and getting a PI license...

So because MY thing was not THERE thing... I was OBVIOUSLY a conformist

Today my hair is long since I MY thing became the Renaissance thing.... today I get accused of being an old Hippy who never grew up

THAT is the message I am seeing from anon...  Freedom of speech and expression so long as you "Do as we say, do as we do...

The Justin Bieber case above is just one prime example of this in action

QuoteIf free speech does not exist for all of us, then it exists for none of us.

The BIGGEST issue with FREE SPEECH that people constantly ignore is that ANY freedom comes with a caveat...   You are free to do or say as you wish SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT impinge on another's freedom

Let's apply it to THIS case of the Mask vs the Hood...

Anon has 'outed' several people FALSELY as being Klan members.

Now under your thinking Anon was okay to say that? Even though it's a false accusation?  A public accusation like that can ruin lives

Take for example some kids stating "My teacher molested me..." The teacher did NOTHING... yet once that is repeated by the 'freedom of the press's right to publish' that teachers life is ruined

The point is there HAS to be limitations on the freedom of speech... you are not nor should you be able to, spout lies and threats against another.

A long time ago the Wiccan Rede stated "An 'ye' harm none, do what ye will"

THAT is true freedom... whether you like it or not

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 27, 2014, 09:03:31 PM
I could go on and on.  I will say this...most of the police dept.'s in my area serve and protect...but the main duty of law enforcement officers according to the SCOTUS (US Supreme Court) a Law enforement officer is constitutionally bound to enforce the law but not constitutionally bound to protect.  They are to serve the public at large.  This is not my opinion but comes from our Supreme Court.  Zorgon...I hope this answers your question adequately.

It does yes...

I agree that MOST cops still serve and protect...

I aslo have no problem interpreting that as to serve the public at large as opposed to an individual. Enforcing the law.... that is GOOD

But more and more we are seeing officers both individually or in groups stepping out of bounds.

That shooting in Arizona of that homeless guy...  four cops and one attack dog.... what LAW were they enforcing exactly?

Last I heard there is no law against camping or sleeping on BLM land.  Certainly not an exectution level infraction

Last I jeard there is no law against roaming on BLM land exploring for rocks or fossils. In fact it is listed by BLM as a Recreational Activity and they even list state parks that allow it... so what LAW was that cop enforcing when he harrased the rockhound with a helicopter?

If these were only isolated cases... if these obvious infractions were dealt with by their superiors... I would not even discuss it...

But more and more we are seeing this type of stuff. It got worse since Homeland Security came to be. I have personally had two incidents against me (though not serious yet) that were definitely violations of my rights

So yeah "Houston we have a problem"

The BIGGEST fear of "We the people.." is that cops will simply follow orders when their bosses say such and such a community is in violation of some law.  Though we have a supposed right to protest... the Bundy fenced of "First Amendment Area" is a glaring red beacon

(http://www.reviewjournal.com/sites/default/files/field/media/web1_bundy_040114JL_09_6.jpg)

What part of that image above has ANYTHING to do with "enforcing the law"?

Back in Germany... there was a Police Agency  - Schutzstaffe

This police force started as a small security agency to protect meetings. Schutzstaffe translated is "Protection Squadron"or "defence corps"...

As they grew they literally became the Homeland Security of Germany... ultimately answering to Hitler and his top staff

Yes "Schutzstaffe" is the now notorious SS

So WHO exactly does DHS answer to? Even on TV shows they seem to lord it over even the FBI...

We just had to renew our Resident cards.... every 10 years...

Last time we went into the office of INS... took 20 minutes to pay the fee, get a photo and out the door with a temp card  full card arrived in about two weeks like a drivers license

THIS time...

It is now run by DHS...  you have to make an APPOINTMENT to even ask information. When you arrive you cannot even enter the building before a guard asks you your business. Then you go through an airport level security check

You pay your fee and then schedule an appointment  That takes 30-45 days... if you miss the appointment you have to pay again

You then go in for fingerprints and photo... you now get a temp sticker on your old card and they say "5 to 9 months to get your new card"

So the writing is on the wall... I just hope the vast majority of cops and military will NOT just shoot citizens because they are "following orders and enforcing the law"

We all know how that ended up last time in Germany... well at least my parents do... they lived through it

Quote from: zorgon on November 27, 2014, 11:13:58 PM
Yes I CAN believe it.  So basically it appears that each individual force has the option to choose whether to protect the citizens or harass them :P

But "We the people..." make a general assumption...

We have a MILITARY that is supposed to defend this country and its citizen's from attack by our 'enemies' whomever they may be. As far as I can tell that is how it is written in the Constitution

We have a MILITIA that is supposed to protect us citizen's in times when Gov Goon Squads get out of control (to wit  the Bundy Ranch case)

We have a POLICE force to uphold the laws that "we the people..." SUPPOSEDLY have put in place to protect us from those who would abuse us

THESE are the basic assumptions of "We the people..."  And I know MANY in the military and on the police force that do actually understand this... even if it's not clearly written down as a 'duty'

When you hire a security guard it is resonable to expect that the guard will do his best to protect you.

Do "We the people..." not elect our Sheriffs and pay the police to protect us? Maybe it's not a 'duty' but it certainly is in the job description

::)

I think you have the idea.  There was a private security force helping some gun shops and they are bound by contract to serve their clients without stepping outside the law.  These private contractors do not come cheap depending on who you hire...some are former military special forces and the like.  After I retired I became an armed security officer at a lower level than these (by choice) but I am bound by contract to serve the client.  Basically if you really want protection you either hire some or learn how to protect yourself.  Like I said...in my county the officers do the best to protect and serve...I guess we are still some of the old guard but this is gradually being changed in the academies.  A good number coming out of the academies now are much younger and have been taught to kick butt legally.  Another reason I got out....

Petrus, I just spent the time watching all three in the series of the wellaware1 work.  Most was stuff I had seen before, but there was more than a few gems I had not.  Though I have My doubts about Ed Chiarini - another gatekeeper, no doubt - the info that seems demonstrably true is enough to make clear that Ferguson is a farce.  The depth of the psychopathy on this planet is far greater than most can come to grips with.

I find it interesting that this work was an interweb mini-phenomenon a couple of years ago, and then Chiarini kinda quit and His work slipped below awareness on any large-ish scale.  I'm sure the donation link still works, I'm betting.

Another side of the never-ending story...



#KKK & #Anonymous find common ground over soda pop at clandestine #Ferguson, Missouri "Steak & Shake" burger joint meeting - Nate Thayer - Journalist (http://www.nate-thayer.com/kkk-anonymous-share-soda-pop-common-ground-at-clandestine-ferguson-missouri-steak-shake-burger-joint-meeting/)

November 23, 2014
While the country is all atwitter over racial strife in Ferguson, there is remarkable common ground being found between extremist antagonists on the ground.

The Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and 7 members of the anarchist group Anonymous sat down at a local Steak & Shake burger joint and agreed on issues of constitutional rights of free speech and militarization of the police over soda pops on the eve of a grand jury announcement on the shooting death of a black teenager by a white cop in Ferguson, Missouri.

The KKK and Anonymous met today at a local Missouri burger joint and began a discussion to bridge what some might find impossible differences.

"I feel my true calling in life is seeking the truth and exposing corruption...yes I would say we are finding common ground...and that this conflict is all but over, but as you said we have no central leader so our process will not be as swift as the KKK,"

said an Anonymous member, who asked to remain–well, anonymous– who reached out to the Ku Klux Klan after other Anonymous members hacked the KKK websites and took over their Twitter account earlier this week.

the rest of the story (http://www.nate-thayer.com/kkk-anonymous-share-soda-pop-common-ground-at-clandestine-ferguson-missouri-steak-shake-burger-joint-meeting/)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 28, 2014, 01:51:19 AM
Another side of the never-ending story...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/kkkanon6.png)

Yeah I think Zorgon posted the video of that conversation back on page five

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7179.msg107072#msg107072

8)

Quote from: Amaterasu on August 22, 2014, 08:53:55 AMWhen a child dies of starvation, I CANNOT believe it was merely the child's choice.

Riddle me this then...

WHY would the PARENTS of that child, who are living in abject poverty facing starvation themselves...  then bring a child into the world KNOWING that the child would starve?

WHY would these parents do that?

You are correct... in that case the child has no control, no choicee..

But the PARENTS DID have a choice... they could have chosen NOT to have a child that they knew would never survive

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/10440967_385866774906020_5645151560701913621_n.jpg?oh=45590ea4ad33bb21018d86cd8f17020a&oe=54D2B29D&__gda__=1427774543_0594a97716c3b65a5ef4ceb18744e666)

Quote from: zorgon on November 28, 2014, 08:58:30 AM
Riddle me this then...

WHY would the PARENTS of that child, who are living in abject poverty facing starvation themselves...  then bring a child into the world KNOWING that the child would starve?

WHY would these parents do that?

You are correct... in that case the child has no control, no choicee..

But the PARENTS DID have a choice... they could have chosen NOT to have a child that they knew would never survive

Various situations such as rape and lack of contraception...

Quote from: zorgon on November 28, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Yeah I think Zorgon posted the video of that conversation back on page five

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7179.msg107072#msg107072

8)

Yes, Zorgon did...with this observation... :P

QuoteSo now Anon is making deals with the KKK?  Oh GOOD GRIEF

That's why the link for the text.

Understanding the adversary is not to be contrued 'deal making.'

Quote from: zorgon on November 28, 2014, 11:48:24 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/10440967_385866774906020_5645151560701913621_n.jpg?oh=45590ea4ad33bb21018d86cd8f17020a&oe=54D2B29D&__gda__=1427774543_0594a97716c3b65a5ef4ceb18744e666)

Dubose opened her shop in June, shortly before Brown was shot in August. The riots after the shooting almost shut down her fledgling business. For two weeks after the shooting, reports the Washington Post, not a single customer entered her shop.

This time, as she returned to board up her shop and see what she could do, white racist America came to her aid with two GoFundMe campaigns raising more than $90,000 to help Dubose repair her shop.


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112614-728166-natalie-dubose-cakes-and-more-vandalized.htm#ixzz3KNeEDRKD

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 28, 2014, 04:14:23 PM
Dubose opened her shop in June, shortly before Brown was shot in August. The riots after the shooting almost shut down her fledgling business. For two weeks after the shooting, reports the Washington Post, not a single customer entered her shop.

This time, as she returned to board up her shop and see what she could do, white racist America came to her aid with two GoFundMe campaigns raising more than $90,000 to help Dubose repair her shop.

That is certainly the kind of story to feel good about and shows the better nature of our people. Thanks for sharing those additional details!

Unsure of the purpose as to why Thor highlighted 'White Racist America'..

Most of US are not racist, the policy makers ae however.

If I was on PC, here I'd insert Eminems 'White America'.

Quote from: Amaterasu on November 28, 2014, 01:15:00 AM
Petrus, I just spent the time watching all three in the series of the wellaware1 work.

Good.  I hope others here do likewise.

QuoteThe depth of the psychopathy on this planet is far greater than most can come to grips with.

Deep, but simple.  There is universal law, and there are those who, for various reasons, do not abide by it.  The psychopaths rule within the breach.  While I do not wish to put words in his mouth, I think Zorgon would agree with that.  You have said before, that said disobedience is largely due to ignorance, which is sometimes true, but not always.

QuoteI find it interesting that this work was an interweb mini-phenomenon a couple of years ago

The memory hole is also deep, and acts quickly, on myself as well.

Quote from: zorgon on November 28, 2014, 08:37:29 AM

Yes, Zorgon did...with this observation... :P

QuoteSo now Anon is making deals with the KKK?  Oh GOOD GRIEF[/color]

That's why the link for the text.

Understanding the adversary is not to be contrued 'deal making.'

The KKK and Anonymous met today at a local Missouri burger joint and began a discussion to bridge what some might find impossible differences....there is remarkable common ground being found between extremist antagonists on the ground.

Sir Merriam-Webster says:

Deal:

2. To behave in a specified way toward another or others; have transactions: deal honestly with competitors.

5a.  An agreement, especially one that is mutually beneficial.

::)

Quote from: zorgon on November 28, 2014, 07:22:11 PM
The KKK and Anonymous met today at a local Missouri burger joint and began a discussion to bridge what some might find impossible differences....there is remarkable common ground being found between extremist antagonists on the ground.

(http://i.imgur.com/TqT8iKM.jpg)

This should not be as surprising as it seems to be.  As mentioned, I've spent a fair amount of time conversing with members of the white supremacist far Right on 4chan.  They really aren't as irrational as most people claim, as long as you remember the core points that govern their view of reality.

a}  They are exceptionally strong believers in scarcity and the Zero Sum Game.  In their minds, hard resource limits are very real.

b}  In the end, racism is not really anything other than a rationalisation which they use, for claiming why they should get said scarce resources themselves, instead of blacks or members of any other ethnic group.  The idea is that because there is not enough stuff to go around, killing people will mean that said dead individuals no longer need their share of said stuff, which in turn means that you can have it yourself.  Unless an individual is psychopathic, however, some form of dehumanising rationalisation is necessary, before they can start killing people.  This is what motivates the claim that blacks (or members of whatever other group) are animals, or that they are less intelligent, or uncivilised, or whatever.  It all serves the purpose of rationalising their murder, and subsequent theft of their resources.

While rare exceptions do exist, you will find that white supremacy almost always clusters with poverty and lack of education.  White supremacists are keenly aware of, and paranoid about, the idea of members of other ethnic groups having more food or other resources than they do. 

This, by the way, is another big part of the reason why I am an advocate of provisional post-scarcity; because I know that if the average Klansman has as much food or whatever other resources as he needs, he is going to cease to care about other ethnic groups, or about lynching them.

c}  There is a very strong belief (which to a certain extent genuinely was present in Sparta, of course; but not to the degree that the usual stereotypes imply) that war or conflict is the only valid crucible for human development that exists.  This belief is much more difficult to challenge or remedy than the above resource scarcity issue; and even more disturbingly, since 9/11, said belief has been creeping into (at least American) mainstream thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-M-hB75BZ4

Hating, fighting, or excluding the Right is not the appropriate way to deal with them.  Violent conflict is an inherent part of their worldview, so apart from anything else, if you try and engage in it with them, they are likely to be better at it than you.  This will also have the effect of seeming to validate their beliefs, and will therefore reinforce said beliefs in their own minds.

The way to end racism is to ensure that racist individuals have sufficient resources themselves, that they no longer need to feel insecure about what anyone else has.  Plunder was, after all, the primary motivation behind the old Viking raids, and their contemporary descendants are no different. 

Their belief in the developmental value of war is more of a problem, but given our current technological level, it also does not really need to be.  Sufficiently violent virtual scenarios should be more than capable of meeting that need, without anyone having to genuinely get killed in the process.

So is it safe for me to find a 501c3 Anglo-Saxon organization yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2yFmgK4Loc

I apologise if this is one of the vids that Amy linked, but even if it is, I think it's one that needs special emphasis.  This is some footage from our guardian angel Wellaware1, and it's a bombshell.  He's got what looks like some fairly convincing footage of Oprah Winfrey in the protest crowd at Ferguson, along with Corinne Fox.

I think we can say at this point that the cat is officially out of the bag, kids.  Prepare for things to get interesting.  Subscribe to the channel this video is from, as well; dallasgoldbug.  I know I have.

Could somebody link me to the above video please

Quote from: Sinny on November 29, 2014, 02:25:23 PM
Could somebody link me to the above video please

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2yFmgK4Loc

:)

(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5457fc87e4b01c74d3bc0f09/5477a29ee4b0680f8d636dd8/5477a46ce4b053a861be7add/1417127042822/untitled-5500.jpg?format=1500w)

Peace among protest: A Portland police officer noticed a 12-year-old boy holding a sign that read "Free Hugs" during a Ferguson demonstration in Oregon. The officer started talking to the boy about the demonstration, school and life. When they were done talking, the officer asked if he was going to get a hug.

The boy teared up — and obliged

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/11/29/photo-cop-hugging-protester-portland-oregon-viral-social-media/

Ferguson police say Michael Brown was suspect in robbery



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-say-michael-brown-fit-description-strong-arm-robbery-suspect/

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152406568111336&fref=nf

Comments...

Pedro Gonzalez - Always an innocent, gentle young man, outstanding member of the community and society.. until the security footage appears.

Eddie Moore - Wow.. that is a big "boy" as opposed to the pictures of the 5-10 year old they keep posting...

Jason Waddell - Started off his day stealing cigars then tried to step it up to stealing a gun. My question to all the cop haters. Had he got the officers gun and killed the officer, would all of the citizens come to defend the slain officer as they did for the criminal? Probably not!! Thank god the officer wasn't hurt.

Craig Huffman - He's a big dude and a bully. Stealing the cigars doesn't mean anything. The fact is he is a violent person with no regard for others and the law. When you attack a police officer, you have to accept the consequences... I'm sure the cop didn't know if the dude was armed or not... I know if some one that size attacks me, I'd be afraid for my life and use whatever means necessary (including shooting him) in order to make it home to my wife and kids.

Interesting development   8)

Quote from: zorgon on November 29, 2014, 08:17:03 PM
Interesting development   8)

Nothing new, as you can see by the article's date, but it looks like it was forgotten.  ::)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 30, 2014, 03:41:38 AM
Agent provocateur, Al Sharpton's boy, or just another loud mouth thug from the hood?  ;)

You only say that because he is not wearing the right mask.  :P

Just food for thought in what people seem almost determined to forget here...

St Louis received (and very much earned) the dubious honor of "U.S. Murder Capital" for more than one year in recent times. The St Louis area is among the most dangerous and unforgiving metro areas in our nation, and in trucking, I've literally seem all of them for context to compare. Most, many times over. St Louis has a unique blend of racial hate on open display, with a collective guilt also visible to the fact the racism exists at all.

It makes for a unique blend of dysfunction which St Louis wears like a badge.

Added to that though, is the criminal element that is second to none for ruthlessness and viciousness that plain and simple numbers show to be true through the Uniform Crime Statistics kept locally and reported federally for all to view at their pleasure.

Alex Jones and others are lucky they aren't being robbed outright and left without so much as a camera to record it with once they leave the 'pack' ....as a UStream citizen journalist DID have happen to him this past week. One of two streams on Monday night went down mid-evening...because some scumbag stole the camera phone right out of his hands. (sigh)

Welcome to the St. Louis Metro area. It's a rough place. No Government agitators required (and they'd be killed without ceremony if discovered by the scum they'd be trying to imitate around them).

Quote from: ArMaP on November 30, 2014, 12:27:30 PM
You only say that because he is not wearing the right mask.  :P

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/ilndksgc.gif)

Quote from: ArMaP on November 29, 2014, 04:52:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2yFmgK4Loc

:)

Thanks

Excessive Force backfires...   8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jagvYIMJyzU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jagvYIMJyzU

Perhaps this will be a more common response on the streets soon

Quote from: zorgon on December 07, 2014, 12:59:57 AM
Excessive Force backfires...   8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jagvYIMJyzU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jagvYIMJyzU

Perhaps this will be a more common response on the streets soon

Don't forget that those were Portuguese fans. ;D

http://www.smokeegyrl.com
@Bassem Masri

This guy is obviously embedded with the protestors
and extremely vociferous, actually leading many of the chants...
this is not impartial journalsm...yeah, this be RAW !

These people are attempting to instigate a riot...
and we have 'our' cameraman in the thick of it    8)

If they don't give us our shit
We'll burn down Dunkin Donuts

FTP
Fork the police

What do you want?
Justice
When do you want it?
Now

Pigs in a blanket
Smells like bacon

No Justice
No Christmas

"Unlawful assembly just declared by PD..."

This is incredible.  People in Gaza are sending tweets to people in Ferguson teaching them how to deal with tear gas.

Gotta LOVE the propaganda machine...


THIS in NYC. From today's march in NYC against racist police terror.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10347168_883126041721878_3574832112521726799_n.jpg?oh=069e3da14ee8dac560af3d35c6b1a625&oe=553C913C&__gda__=1425931396_2280fadf75d4e677f36ab5b0ef6065c4)

Then on the same page...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn2eDyaq3mQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn2eDyaq3mQ

Meanwhile...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwwB9P_0PQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwwB9P_0PQ

The girl filming this is worse than the thug  She keeps egging him on to do more.


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10405383_397245157118700_6767785992721096661_n.jpg?oh=7a44b61180271af056544fd6342d3dcb&oe=54FF5438&__gda__=1430017152_152684aed7d16868101cac222046b372)

Hell just shoot em all - dang porch monkeys   8)

Oh wait  that's racist :P

RONALD MCMAHAN CHARGED IN SHOOTING DEATH OF LANSING GIRL, 17
December 5, 2014


(http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/wls/images/cms/424629_630x354.jpg)
Ronald McMahan, 19

Friday, December 05, 2014
LANSING, Ill. (WLS) -- A suspect was charged Friday in the shooting death of a 17-year-old south suburban girl.

Ashley Scott was killed while sitting in a car with three other teens in Gary, Ind. on Wednesday.

Ronald McMahan, 19, now faces murder and attempted robbery charges.

Scott's family, friends and neighbors held a vigil Friday night in Lansing, where she lived.

Scott was a student at Thornton Fractional South High School.

http://abc7chicago.com/424624/

Funny how THIS story barely made it to main stream news

Zorgon - You're straying from the much beloved "Cops bad - young men misunderstood" meme that the Peggy left loves.

Quote from: WarToad on December 16, 2014, 02:15:40 PM
Zorgon - You're straying from the much beloved "Cops bad - young men misunderstood" meme that the Peggy left loves.

"Peggy left"?  ???

Quote from: ArMaP on December 16, 2014, 02:23:38 PM
"Peggy left"?  ???

An attempt at labelling some of our members opinions as either leftist or rightest I'm presuming.

color me stupid, I guess, because I have never understood the left and right thing.....sigh
and what I thought I knew about conservative and  liberal gets changed so often by
those stating their opinions
makes me go back to a debate team instruction of
define your terms and then argue
:P

Quote from: WarToad on December 16, 2014, 02:15:40 PM
Zorgon - You're straying from the much beloved "Cops bad - young men misunderstood" meme that the Peggy left loves.

LOL not really  We try to show both sides of the coin to achieve BALANCE. I have been saying that for a very long time  :P

Quote from: space otter on December 16, 2014, 04:03:30 PM

color me stupid, I guess, because I have never understood the left and right thing.....sigh

What color is 'stupid'?   :P

Hu-mons have two half of the brain  a left and a right. Those who use ONLY their left side will behave a certain way, support certain beliefs etc. Left Brainers tend to be more literal minded while Right Brainers are the creative ones

(http://www.myshrink.com/images/left-right-brain-280.jpg)

So as I said its all about BALANCE... you need to use BOTH sides as one :P

Oddly enough in Medieval Times Left has always been evil :P Even in Heraldry Left is Sinister  (Wikipedia Sinister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinister))  so left handed people are sinister :P

So I guess saying "Peggy lefts" is calling some people evil :D

Too bad we don't have a political party that walks the center line :P


and what I thought I knew about conservative and  liberal gets changed so often by
those stating their opinions
makes me go back to a debate team instruction of
define your terms and then argue
:P
[/quote]

Quote from: zorgon on December 16, 2014, 08:57:53 PM
LOL not really  We try to show both sides of the coin to achieve BALANCE. I have been saying that for a very long time  :P

One of the college level courses I received from the department I worked for was called "Crisis Intervention Training" in dealing with various people in various situations.  This training dealt with mentally ill people and others in various states of under the influence of substances.  It was the most valuable training I ever received.  The added plus to this training were people who actually had the maladies and the problems which they now have under control.  These people under the guidance of mental health counselors and other counselors told us how they acted off their meds or under the influences of substances.  It was a good combination but unfortunately training monies are put into other areas.  It's sad because in my 20 years of various training I received this was probably the most important.  My thanks to my commander for sending me to this school.  It was and still is a valuable tool in the field of armed security in which I presently work.  What I learned actually had us verbalizing rather than going right to physical force.  But we did have to be ready if the force from a potential suspect suddenly escalated.  Our uses of force actually became reduced.  Wish they offered more of this type training.  It was a 40 hour course and worth it.

Too bad we don't have a political party that walks the center line :P

That would require someone to use both sides of their brain.  Boy this could be a discussion within itself.   :P

Good idea :D

Quote from: zorgon on December 16, 2014, 09:08:51 PM
Oddly enough in Medieval Times Left has always been evil :P Even in Heraldry Left is Sinister  (Wikipedia Sinister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinister))  so left handed people are sinister :P

That's probably from Latin, as "sinistra" means "left", as it does in Italian.

yeah yeah.. I know about the brain stuff...only left handers are in their right minds..ha ha
and about bar sinister in heraldry

I was claiming totally being lost on the political  right and left crap....and on who is liberal and who is conservative

every time I think I have the definition correct I read an article that is calling folks this or that and it's not what I had it figured as..or what they were listed as before...

if you tell me your political views are left or right you may as well not speak..

:-X

Quote from: zorgon on December 16, 2014, 12:34:53 AM
Gotta LOVE the propaganda machine...


THIS in NYC. From today's march in NYC against racist police terror.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10347168_883126041721878_3574832112521726799_n.jpg?oh=069e3da14ee8dac560af3d35c6b1a625&oe=553C913C&__gda__=1425931396_2280fadf75d4e677f36ab5b0ef6065c4)

Then on the same page...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn2eDyaq3mQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn2eDyaq3mQ

Greetings:

Thank you for sharing.

Check this out:

Revolution News - Time Lapse Video Shows the Massive Size of Millions March NYC (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=422549091231992)

Dozens of cities took to the streets in huge numbers coast to coast in solidarity to protest against
systemic police violence on the black, brown and poor communities in the United States.

facebook: #MillionsMarchNYC (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/millionsmarchnyc).


And some say that's not the Ferguson Michael Brown.   ::)

For example: (http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/shawnspall.asp)
"This is not 'the' Michael Brown. This video was filmed at Woodland City,
a large apartment complex in Dallas, and it was originally posted to YouTube in 2012.
Michael Brown, who would have been 16 at the time, has never lived in Texas."

Quote from: space otter on December 16, 2014, 10:39:56 PM
if you tell me your political views are left or right you may as well not speak..

I have only ONE political view...

Politics ----  Poly = many  Ticks = Blood sucking vermin

8)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on December 17, 2014, 01:44:44 AM
And some say that's not the Ferguson Michael Brown.   ::)

It doesn't matter... the Propaganda Machine has done its work