Pegasus Research Consortium

Quote from: Sinny on January 26, 2015, 02:08:05 AM

THE LOST FILES ON THE CONTROLLERS
ROSWELL
Truth and Consequences

http://www.redshift.com/~damason/lhreport/articles/roswell.html

So Martin would have us believe it was drones in 1947 responsible for Roswell.

He is either unaware of or reticent to discuss the extreme level of technology on display that year from thousands of reports across the US, which discount that idea in a hurry.

Remember we need 15,000 mph and 90 degree turns to qualify as culprits for these sightings.

 

Quote from: A51Watcher on January 26, 2015, 05:40:07 AM

Remember we need 15,000 mph and 90 degree turns to qualify as culprits for these sightings.

"So Martin would have us believe".

I think the first barrier lies right there. Martin has offered his own opinion, and in comparison to the efforts of many others in field, I'm sure Martin would have you believe the most probable answer to the UFO question, rather than - for example - propagate and force fairy tales of aliens.

(Your opening statement leaves me wondering why your 'witnesses' didn't receive the same skepticism)

He draws on tangible and logical circumstantial evidence, rather than second hand witness accounts propagated some 25 years after the crash.

Besides that, he didn't elaborate on the specifics of the drone.
Depending on perspective, I'm sure we can forgive any description on an unmanned craft as a 'drone'.

I don't understand why it is so difficult to imagine that .Gov have been playing us like a fiddle all these years..  ???

And in continuation from that it seems there is a stronger campaign against the people who are more willing to look at the military and scientific communities involvement in the UFO field from a more critical point of view, in order to silence them and remove them from view.

Quote from: Sinny on January 26, 2015, 03:21:56 PM
"So Martin would have us believe".

I think the first barrier lies right there. Martin has offered his own opinion, and in comparison to the efforts of many others in field, I'm sure Martin would have you believe the most probable answer to the UFO question, rather than - for example - propagate and force fairy tales of aliens.

(Your opening statement leaves me wondering why your 'witnesses' didn't receive the same skepticism)

Obviously they did from Martin. He slags every researcher and witness tied to the the case up till now, revealing his stance as a debunker.

Quote
He draws on tangible and logical circumstantial evidence, rather than second hand witness accounts propagated some 25 years after the crash.

His premise is full of holes and the answers to his 'questions' are answered with a bit of thought from anyone familiar with the evidence.

Those without could be swayed.

Many of his 'questions' are answered by Haut's affidavit, which he is either unaware of or said opinion was written before it's release. 

The thousands of accounts I was referring to were not 2nd hand. They were all first hand, and still available for all to examine.

-That- is the evidence I referred to that his theory does not fit, let alone all the rest.


And odd that 2nd hand testimony matches the first hand accounts in this case, isn't it?

Quote
Besides that, he didn't elaborate on the specifics of the drone.

Quite lucky for Martin he didn't. Or was it luck? Perhaps he IS aware he would have to deal with the exotic flight characteristics displayed that year.

Quote
Depending on perspective, I'm sure we can forgive any description on an unmanned craft as a 'drone'.

Fair enough. But again, any proposed solution has to be thought through.

You need hardware and technology that matches the first hand witness accounts of that year, along with a plausible culprit country in charge of it.

The Jerries, the Nips, the Ruskies?

You then need motive and opportunity.

Quote
I don't understand why it is so difficult to imagine that .Gov have been playing us like a fiddle all these years..  ???

Because his theory doesn't fit the evidence.

A course we been fiddled for ages. But that doesn't give any theory precedent over another.

Quote
And in continuation from that it seems there is a stronger campaign against the people who are more willing to look at the military and scientific communities involvement in the UFO field from a more critical point of view, in order to silence them and remove them from view.

The strength of a campaign is now something to be quantified and measured to be used in judging their veracity?

By that reasoning Bob Lazar wins hands down.

___

Again, I would point you back to Pimander's premise which shows the most promise in my view.

If they are not E.T.

then they are most likely T.A.

(Terrestrial Aliens)

Quote from: A51Watcher on January 26, 2015, 05:29:53 PM

He slags every researcher and witness tied to the the case up till now

Maybe they deserve it?

Quoterevealing his stance as a debunker.

A different sort to Phil Klass, no doubt.

Quote
His premise is full of holes

Considering there are hole's across the board to be filled..

Quoteand the answers to his 'questions' are answered with a bit of thought from anyone familiar with the evidence.

QuoteMany of his 'questions' are answered by Haut's affidavit, which he is either unaware of or said opinion was written before it's release.

Specifically?

QuoteThe thousands of accounts I was referring to were not 2nd hand. They were all first hand, and still available for all to examine.

Quote-That- is the evidence I referred to that his theory does not fit, let alone all the rest.

I presume you are talking generally and not in regards to Roswell?

QuoteAnd odd that 2nd hand testimony matches the first hand accounts in this case, isn't it?

Not if they have the same purpose..

QuoteQuite lucky for Martin he didn't. Or was it luck? Perhaps he IS aware he would have to deal with the exotic flight characteristics displayed that year.

Perhaps he only comments on what his knowledge permits him to?

QuoteBut again, any proposed solution has to be thought through.

My thoughts exactly.

QuoteYou need hardware and technology that matches the first hand witness accounts of that year, along with a plausible culprit country in charge of it.

The Jerries, the Nips, the Ruskies?

You then need motive and opportunity.

And how many of these have been examined and evaluated by the UFO crowd? Barely any.

QuoteBecause his theory doesn't fit the evidence.

If we actually had any evidence, this would not be a debate.

QuoteA course we been fiddled for ages. But that doesn't give any theory precedent over another.

Of course it does.

QuoteThe strength of a campaign is now something to be quantified and measured to be used in judging their veracity?

Yes.

QuoteBy that reasoning Bob Lazar wins hands down.

Yes, the testimony of Lazar is one thing, the elaborations extended by Lear are another.

___

QuoteAgain, I would point you back to Pimander's premise which shows the most promise in my view.

If they are not E.T.

then they are most likely T.A.

If advanced humans equate to T.A then we might be in agreement.

Well if we are going to slag all 600+ first and second hand witnesses tied directly to the Roswell incident, there is nothing left to debate.

Same goes for the first hand accounts of thousands of citizens that year.


Oh yeah also the researchers who sweated bullets wresting buried information and witnesses, including myself - tyvm.


You have also relegated your own testimony of a sighting to being worthless and unreliable.


Get a grip Sin, your testimony IS worthwhile.

And by inference, so are others.

Quote from: A51Watcher on January 26, 2015, 10:40:02 PM

Well if we are going to slag all 600+ first and second hand witnesses tied directly to the Roswell incident, there is nothing left to debate.

I must be looking at wrong Roswell account... I do not recall over 600 witness accounts, in fact I can barely recall 20.

(I've partaken in your threads, where are they?)

If you can point me to the missing few hundred..

QuoteSame goes for the first hand accounts of thousands of citizens that year.

Thousands of people did not report any ET or TA craft - they reported UFO, I'm sure you are aware of the distinction.

QuoteYou have also relegated your own testimony of a sighting to being worthless and unreliable.

My account of what I witnessed as as much weight as any other testimony in a court of law.
And in any court of Law, my credibility would be the first thing on the stand.

My future ex husband and grand children's accounts however, would weigh less than that.

Besides that,  my account, if proof of anything, only proves that I witnessed UFO.
It holds zero weight on the who, how and why.

(Believe me, I'd love to know!)

There is absolutely no basis for me to conclude that I know the who, how and why.
That would a falsification.

QuoteGet a grip Sin, your testimony IS worthwhile.

I know it is.
But it's still not proof of ET/TA.

QuoteAnd by inference, so are others.

You seem to be neglecting the history of illusion and lies often purported by the Military.

Based on the evidence, or lack of (more appropriately), you yourself have come to unproven conclusions.

A-C having missed B.

Real Investigation into the Roswell Phenomena would include independent Investigation and documentation on  all military operations and factions around that point in time and ruling out the obvious.

Unless I have over-looked this aspect, all you researchers leave a lot to be desired.

Yeah I was told 500+ by Randle and Schmitt in the 90's, and last year it was either Karl or Seeker told me we were up to 600+ now.

What does it matter? From your position it doesn't matter if it's 600 or 6000.


You and Martin apparently know more than the people who were actually there.

Quote from: A51Watcher on January 28, 2015, 03:03:33 AM

Yeah I was told 500+ by Randle and Schmitt in the 90's, and last year it was either Karl or Seeker told me we were up to 600+ now.

What does it matter? From your position it doesn't matter if it's 600 or 6000.


You and Martin apparently know more than the people who were actually there.

Do you always believe what you are told?
I rest my case. The flaws in your logic are laid bare to see.

Says the person who thinks there are only 20 witnesses?  ::)

Quote from: A51Watcher on January 28, 2015, 04:48:40 PM
Says the person who thinks there are only 20 witnesses?  ::)

Produce the missing 580 witnesses..

What did the aliens do? Gate-crash a festival at Roswell?  ::)  ::)

Opening statement - "...hundreds of witnesses..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdi3A8VHkHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdi3A8VHkHc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdi3A8VHkHc)



Ok for those wishing to keep count, just to make sure we're all on the same page, get out a pen and paper and let's all keep count at home shall we?

Let's start with -

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516TVVFMQVL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

and

(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0231/1817/products/The-Truth-About-the-UFO-crash-at-Roswell--Kevin-Randle-_-Donald-Schmitt_large.jpg?v=1381270882)

and

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Vb7yEaPDL.jpg)


and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDJz7wl4ZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDJz7wl4ZI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDJz7wl4ZI)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imSHAVxsQAs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imSHAVxsQAs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imSHAVxsQAs)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2m5S-iwmU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2m5S-iwmU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2m5S-iwmU)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmjiv1EwUw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmjiv1EwUw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmjiv1EwUw)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc_hm3d1zaE

Sc_hm3d1zaE (http://sc_hm3d1zae)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuQXkTdv16g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuQXkTdv16g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuQXkTdv16g)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQUnZgfHME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQUnZgfHME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQUnZgfHME)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXvwJOuv7M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXvwJOuv7M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXvwJOuv7M)

Actually I think Martin's theory is far closer to the truth than most people think. There is corroborating theories and factual evidence in Heiser's thoughts, RedFern's theories, and Scratt's thoughts, and even though at times obsurd Dietrich's version.  US-Japanese PaperClip screw-up using radioactive or biological weapons on high altitude drone craft of captured Axis origin for experimenting to see if US could get a drone craft over the Soviets if necessay. Pilots (1 or 2 at most) if there even were any, were young US Japanese internment camp holdovers or four fingered Japanese war criminals brought here from Imperial Japan's bio warfare lab in China.  They crashed or committed suicide. They also may have spread contaniments in the process. Try explaining to the postwar world and your own citizens that you felt it necessary to continue to detain US ethnic citizens, or criminals, to test Nazi tech by dropping bio hazardous material or radioactive dust on your own people - not going to happen.

I Agree 1963.
As a friend of mine said 'we can go far with the Roswell story without ever having to mention the credulous'.

My main counter to the pro-ET theorists is that 90% of said witnesses aren't credible, they are witnesses of hearsay.

But this all boils down to what people deem as acceptable or not.
Each to their own.

Quote from: Sinny on March 25, 2015, 01:30:18 PM
But this all boils down to what people deem as acceptable or not.
Each to their own.

Well no worries... all the old timers are dying off  von Braun, Ben Rich, dead of cancer just after they retired  Boyd Bushman gone. Linda Brown is a joke Hutchinson became a joke since he met Nancy. Bob Lazar now doing the UFO circuit and not so coherent anymore John is having difficulty with memory due to pain meds

And since there have been no new Flaps (not counting orb and critter sightings) it is likely that aany ET that visited us from the 40's to late 70's have given up on us and stopped coming or they find it to dangerous getting through that debris field we have up there

So in about 10 years or so all that will be left is hearsay evidence that has been completely tainted and the Charlatans who are making a KILLING selling fake UFO artifacts and stories.

People will believe those instantly because guys like Nassim make the women believers swoon... (you can hear it in the audience on all his videos :P )

When I leave this rock  30 days after I am gone this website will likely go POOF  Unlike a book which stays around, a website is soon removed (sure the way back machine saves some pages)   And even books are disappearing  Norm Bergrun's Ring Makers of Saturn is so rare now its getting $2,000ish a copy (Which I had bought a few when I had them to sell in San Jose at $60.00 a pop - who knew)  George Adamski books? All tucked away somewhere and these are only good if you even know what to look for by title

So UFOLOGY is a lame duck. As time moves on now more and more doubters will arise and considering the CIA is clamping down again, and NSA has stated they have 'lost' the unredacted files, won't be long before no more truth is available

Add to that the Muslims trying to toss science out the window, we are fast headed for a new Dark Ages

You cannot fight this level of ignorance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Jp_XCvVto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Jp_XCvVto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g84g2KJcUV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g84g2KJcUV0

When I was a teen I was sure that by this time I would have already taken a tourist flight to the Moon... now even NASA has no spaceship to get to the ISS and must rely on our "enemy" the Russians  (No wonder Putin is laughing :P )

It's been fun... I guess I go back to my rocks while I still can

Z, as much as I suppose and know that you are aware of the hoaxes (via which ever nature they maybe), can YOU point me towads the cases that you actually believe are ET??

I've gone from believer to skeptic, but only because of what I deem to be logical thought processes, I am more than open to having my beliefs and opinions changed AGAIN..

As much as it may not *sound* like it when I post, I'll always take your thoughts on board...

Have at me..??

Or point me to that parts that I missed?

Quote from: Sinny on March 25, 2015, 08:35:05 PM
Z, as much as I suppose and know that you are aware of the hoaxes (via which ever nature they maybe), can YOU point me towads the cases that you actually believe are ET??

I know te question is not for me but here is my "the one" case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoItRp1JsGU

I still want to make a full thread about it... Someday ::)

Quote from: 1963 on March 24, 2015, 10:28:30 PM
Actually I think Martin's theory is far closer to the truth than most people think. There is corroborating theories and factual evidence in Heiser's thoughts, RedFern's theories, and Scratt's thoughts, and even though at times obsurd Dietrich's version.  US-Japanese PaperClip screw-up using radioactive or biological weapons on high altitude drone craft of captured Axis origin for experimenting to see if US could get a drone craft over the Soviets if necessay. Pilots (1 or 2 at most) if there even were any, were young US Japanese internment camp holdovers or four fingered Japanese war criminals brought here from Imperial Japan's bio warfare lab in China.  They crashed or committed suicide. They also may have spread contaniments in the process. Try explaining to the postwar world and your own citizens that you felt it necessary to continue to detain US ethnic citizens, or criminals, to test Nazi tech by dropping bio hazardous material or radioactive dust on your own people - not going to happen.

That names been popping up since you posted it..

Deitrich Vs Lear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXMA-Pw_WNY
(Mainly for my information)

Quote from: Sinny on January 29, 2015, 08:24:17 AM
Produce the missing 580 witnesses..

What did the aliens do? Gate-crash a festival at Roswell?  ::)  ::)

Tom Carey's 2nd answer at 11:04:

After 22 years and over 600 first and second-hand witnesses who have pointed us to an extraterrestrial answer for the event, and none, zero, nada, who have pointed us elsewhere, Sir William of Occam has nowhere else to go.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread969705/pg1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread969705/pg1)

Is there any consistency among skeptics regarding Roswell?   Some seem to say it was all nothing, just hearsay and confabulations - yet others keep trying to come up with some weird tale about Nazi planes carrying Japanese mutants - which would confirm the appearances of the main features of the story.

Which is it?

I am inclined to recall a point from my Christian apologia past in which accounts about Jesus are historically credible because "many spoke against him but their testimony was not in agreement".

Quote from: Eighthman on June 08, 2016, 01:24:01 PM
Is there any consistency among skeptics regarding Roswell?

Why should there be any consistency when we are talking about opinions?

QuoteSome seem to say it was all nothing, just hearsay and confabulations - yet others keep trying to come up with some weird tale about Nazi planes carrying Japanese mutants - which would confirm the appearances of the main features of the story.

I didn't know about that Japanese mutants version, do you have any more information about it?