http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/cockpit-voice-tape-studied-in-airbus-crash-nyt-says-pilot-locked-out/ar-AAa0la6
Cockpit voice tape studied in Airbus crash; NYT says pilot locked out
SEYNE-LES-ALPES/PARIS, March 25 (Reuters) - Investigators have retrieved cockpit voice recordings from one of the black boxes of the German Airbus plane that crashed into the Alps, killing everyone onboard, officials said on Wednesday.
The New York Times reported that evidence from the recordings showed that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not get back in before the flight went down.
"The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer," an unnamed investigator told the Times, citing the recordings. "And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer."
"You can hear he is trying to smash the door down," the investigator added.
The retrieval of the recordings came as French President Francois Hollande, Germany's Angela Merkel and Spain's Mariano Rajoy travelled to the crash site in a remote French Alpine region to pay tribute to the 150 victims, mostly Germany and Spanish.
While Hollande promised that authorities would not rest until the causes of the crash were known, France's BEA air incident investigation bureau said it was still far too early to draw meaningful conclusions on why the plane, operated by the Germanwings budget arm of Lufthansa, went down.
"We have just been able to extract a usable audio data file," BEA director Remi Jouty told a news conference at its headquarters outside Paris.
More at the above link......
Well we have the mysterious MH 370 where we don't know what happened. Then we have MH 17 and it was downed either by a missile or another aircraft. Still early on this one. Guess we wait on the flight data recorder and see what was going on with the aircraft. No mayday, no radio traffic in the last minutes and 150 people gone. The largest part of the aircraft about the size of a car. Obliterated in the Alps.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3011235/Germanwings-pilots-REFUSE-fly-s-revealed-doomed-jet-grounded-faults.html
Germanwings pilots REFUSE to fly as it's revealed doomed jet was grounded over faults just 24 HOURS before fatal Alps crash
One Germanwings flight cancelled because pilots 'didn't feel able to fly'
Passengers stranded at UK airports yesterday after crews refused to work
One theory is that the windshield may have cracked or popped out, leaving the pilots without oxygen. If found to be true, somebody is in big trouble.
I doesn't sound good for the technicians if the plane was grounded 24 hours earlier. Someone is in hot water most likely.
Germanwings co-pilot appears to have crashed plane deliberately – prosecutor
http://rt.com/news/244265-a320-crash-deliberate-pilot/
This is what the MSM, radio news, is saying here in N America. That the co-pilot was to blame.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4db_1427364135
https://youtu.be/ixEHV7c3VXs
Airbus cockpit access procedure.
I sure would like to know the background on the co-pilot. As Sinny pointed out with her link there is a possibility that the co-pilot dove the plane into the ground. The reason(s) unknown.
Aircrew Mental Health - Self monitoring?
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/03/26/germanwings-mental-health-screenings-pilots/70479010/
A French prosecutor revealed Thursday that the co-pilot of Germanwings Flight 9525 intentionally crashed the commercial passenger plane on March 24 in the French Alps.
Officials have not called the deliberate act by co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, 28, one of suicide, but they did say Lubitz passed his medical tests.
However, airlines both domestic and abroad largely rely on "self-monitoring" when it comes to tracking the mental health of pilots.
Each country's civil aviation authority has their own rules for health screenings, according to a statement from Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Alison Duquette.
More at the link....
http://news.yahoo.com/official-1-pilot-locked-crash-plane-cockpit-072049706.html
......The prosecutor said there was no indication of terrorism, and did not elaborate on why investigators do not suspect a political motive. He said they are instead focusing on the co-pilot's "personal, family and professional environment" to try to determine why he did it......
.......Andreas Lubitz's "intention (was) to destroy this plane," Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin said, laying out the horrifying conclusions French investigators reached after listening to the last minutes of Tuesday's Flight 9525 from the plane's black box voice data recorder......
......Airlines in Europe are not required to have two people in the cockpit at all times, unlike the standard U.S. operating procedure, which was changed after the 9/11 attacks to require a flight attendant to take the spot of a briefly departing pilot.....
.....Europe's third-largest budget airline, Norwegian Air Shuttle, announced Thursday that it plans to adopt new rules requiring two crew members to always be present in the cockpit......
Excerpts from the article
This is the first I've heard of the co-pilot theory. I thought perhaps the pilot in the cockpit had a medical emergency that prevented him opening the door. A sad situation in any case.
Shasta
Absolutely amazing. :-/
Quote from: Shasta56 on March 26, 2015, 07:50:51 PM
This is the first I've heard of the co-pilot theory. I thought perhaps the pilot in the cockpit had a medical emergency that prevented him opening the door. A sad situation in any case.
Shasta, the door can be opened from the outside using a code only the pilot and cabin crew know. However, to prevent terrorists entering the cockpit you can activate a 5 minute lock but only from inside the cockpit. The co-pilot must have done that and therefore was deliberately locking out the pilot. Also you cannot activate descent easily or accidentally. This appears to have been deliberate.
Very sad. God knows what the motive was?
The last time I was on an airliner was 1985. I confess to being unaware of how things work in a cockpit. As a nurse, my first instinct on anything like this is that a medical problem occurred. Thank you for the information.
Shasta
You should read the NASA Airline Safety Study report. NASA suppressed it because it was so bad would scare people. Congress made them release it. I have a copy somewhere on the Livingmoon
NASA Airplane Safety Report Stalled
Oct. 23, 2007
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3765351
Members of Congress have now demanded that the data be preserved and presented to lawmakers.
"If the data shows that there are problems with safety, then we need to know that and we need to fix it," Rep. Brad Miller D-N.C., said. Miller, who chairs the House Science and Technology investigations and oversight subcommittee, said, "We shouldn't just decide not to release (the information) rather than have people worry about it."
In a statement, NASA administrator Michael Griffin said, "As a general practice, I believe that NASA research and data should be widely available."
The administrator has now taken steps to make sure the safety survey data is preserved and the agency is looking into whether it can release it. A NASA spokesman told ABC News the data is still being analyzed, and that an analysis won't be finished until the end of the year.
The other links I had are all removed and I can't find the actual paper but I know I have it somewhere
I want to know why the increased frequency in all these 'plane' headlines?
Coincidence?
If the increase of frequency were not mere coincidence, what could the underlining significance possibly be?
http://www.37000feet.com/
Browse and Search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS)
The Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS) is a repository of voluntary safety related reports submitted by pilots, air traffic controllers, flight attendants, mechanics and dispatchers. Its aim is to collect safety related incidents and suggestions from aviation personal in a confidential manner. The system provides a foundation and learning opportunity for improving aviation safety.
ASRS reports are collected, disseminated and administered by NASA. The reports are public information available from NASA's ASRS website. This site improves on NASA's by offering convenient search and quick browsing. NASA presents all reports in uppercase abbreviated text, which is difficult to read. This site converts report text back to its normal non-abbreviated upper/lowercase.
Found the site interesting indeed. Zorgon, you may find this an interesting site. I didn't know this even existed. Ran across it by accident.
Will be glad when they find and interpret the data on the Flight data recorder. Was the auto-pilot re-programmed by the co-pilot...was the aircraft system hacked, did the co-pilot lose his mind, had he been taking anti-depressants during his small hiatus from flight training and now was in withdrawal stage...did he have an un-diagnosed mental condition. So many questions. All avenues must be examined before reaching an intelligent conclusion....IMHO.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/27/more-questions-than-answers-after-report-that-germanwings-pilot-locked-out/
The autopilot on the doomed Germanwings plane that crashed into the Alps was abruptly switched to descend to 100 feet, according to a new report Thursday.
FlightRadar24, an online tracking service that uses satellite data, found evidence the autopilot was adjusted to its lowest setting before the plane started its steady fall from the sky, Reuters reported.
French prosecutors said Andreas Lubitz, the 28-year-old who officials say locked the pilot out of the Germanwings cockpit and then calmly slammed the plane into a mountainside at 430 miles per hour. He reportedly battled burnout and depression in 2009, while training to realize his dream of flying.
FlightRadar said its review of data showed the autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 feet to 100 feet and 9 seconds later the aircraft started to descend, probably with the "open descent" autopilot setting, the firm's CEO Fredrik Lindahl said. The plane slammed into a mountain at 6,000 feet, killing 150 people.
Lindahl said FlightRadar24 shared its findings with French crash investigators.
Video available at the link....
I can't get over how the plane disintegrated into so many little pieces.
Latest on this story
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam (http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam)
Co-pilot was a recent convert to radical Islam.
Quote from: starwarp2000 on March 27, 2015, 04:26:31 PM
Latest on this story
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam (http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam)
Co-pilot was a recent convert to radical Islam.
Good find....I wondered about that small hiatus he took when in training. This is not good. Will it cause people to be afraid to fly? Another terror tactic.
QuoteHe reportedly battled burnout and depression in 2009, while training to realize his dream of flying.
I don't think this means much, how many people suffer bouts of depression and this was years ago? Looking at what we have on his life he does not seem the type to take others with him if he wanted to die.
Clearly I can't know but it looks that way to me.
Quote from: Dyna on March 27, 2015, 05:47:45 PM
I don't think this means much, how many people suffer bouts of depression and this was years ago? Looking at what we have on his life he does not seem the type to take others with him if he wanted to die.
Clearly I can't know but it looks that way to me.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/world/europe/germanwings-crash-andreas-lubitz.html
Co-Pilot in Germanwings Crash Hid Mental Illness From Employer, Authorities Say
DÜSSELDORF, Germany — Andreas Lubitz, the pilot at the controls of the Germanwings jetliner that crashed into the French Alps on Tuesday, had a mental illness but kept the diagnosis hidden from his employer, the authorities said Friday.
A psychiatric diagnosis might explain why Mr. Lubitz, a 27-year-old German, did not disclose his full medical record to Germanwings and its parent company, Lufthansa, as is company policy. Certain conditions could result in a pilot's losing his license........
More at the link.....new twist....
Ok this is just weird. Coincidence??
An Oscar nominated film to be released in the UK today showing member of aircrew locking himself in cockpit to crash a plane and kill everyone on board
http://www.thebigwobble.org/2015/03/an-oscar-nominated-film-to-be-released.html
Film fans raise chilling similarity between Wild Tales and Alps disaster First scenes of movie show madman crashing jet to murder his enemies Acclaimed Argentinian film released in UK today and is out in America Controversial movie was released in Germany and Spain last autumn An Oscar-nominated film will still be released in the UK today despite its disturbing similarities to the Alps air disaster. Argentinian film Wild Tales features a mass killer who locks himself in the cockpit of a passenger jet and crashes it in to the ground to murder everyone on board. In terrifying scenes the fictional passengers panic and one tries to smash his way through a door to get to the controls in chillingly similar circumstances to the ill-fated Germanwings Airbus A320 flight. The fictional killer invites his enemies on to the flight, including a lover who jilted him and a colleague who was hard on him at work, so he can kill them. Despite protests the highly-acclaimed movie will be shown in British cinemas from today, however, it was released in Spain and Germany last year although it is not known if Andreas Lubitz had seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3sKO5OInrM
Quote from: starwarp2000 on March 27, 2015, 04:26:31 PM
Latest on this story
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam (http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam)
Co-pilot was a recent convert to radical Islam.
What that guy says is that "all evidence point to", he does say it was.
And I don't think I will accepted some unknown guy's theories as truth.
Quote from: spacemaverick on March 27, 2015, 07:41:47 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/world/europe/germanwings-crash-andreas-lubitz.html
Co-Pilot in Germanwings Crash Hid Mental Illness From Employer, Authorities Say
DÜSSELDORF, Germany — Andreas Lubitz, the pilot at the controls of the Germanwings jetliner that crashed into the French Alps on Tuesday, had a mental illness but kept the diagnosis hidden from his employer, the authorities said Friday.
A psychiatric diagnosis might explain why Mr. Lubitz, a 27-year-old German, did not disclose his full medical record to Germanwings and its parent company, Lufthansa, as is company policy. Certain conditions could result in a pilot's losing his license........
More at the link.....new twist....
From the article...
QuoteThese documents "support the preliminary assessment that the deceased hid his illness from his employer
QuoteA psychiatric diagnosis might explain
QuoteA German hospital said it had evaluated Mr. Lubitz twice in the past two months but added that he had not been there for assessment or treatment of depression.
It sounds as though they do not have the nature of his recent illness even if he were "depressed" many years ago and did not report that.
Quote from: ArMaP on March 27, 2015, 09:16:01 PM
What that guy says is that "all evidence point to", he does say it was.
And I don't think I will accepted some unknown guy's theories as truth.
It is impressive how, after 9/11, much of the world's population, is conditioned to think of terrorism when a plane crashes.
We are all Pavlov's dogs now.
(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/83/e2/83e2924f43130667f47844a7461ed7fb.jpg?itok=jj60uQ4i)
Quote from: RUSSO on March 27, 2015, 10:50:58 PM
It is impressive how, after 9/11, much of the world's population, is conditioned to think of terrorism when a plane crashes.
We are all Pavlov's dogs now.
(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/83/e2/83e2924f43130667f47844a7461ed7fb.jpg?itok=jj60uQ4i)
I guess you are right....even I have jumped to conclusions and we are conditioned, or we don't recognize that we have been conditioned....in some cases of former military...hyper-vigilance or conditioned to look for certain actions that may indicate terrorism. Sometimes it is what it is right in our face. Russo, thanks for the reality check!
Quote from: spacemaverick on March 27, 2015, 10:58:23 PM
I guess you are right....even I have jumped to conclusions and we are conditioned, or we don't recognize that we have been conditioned....in some cases of former military...hyper-vigilance or conditioned to look for certain actions that may indicate terrorism. Sometimes it is what it is right in our face. Russo, thanks for the reality check!
I do not think you have any fault as you are doing an excellent job reporting on this terrible event.
What bothers me is to see how easy it is to disseminate any kind of information when it is related to a concept already indoctrinated by the population. Dangerous.
The co-pilot deliberately piloted this airplane with passengers in an 8 to 10
minute decent into a mountain while hearing the passengers screaming..He
may or may not have been a moslem, but was a terrorist. My personal
thought is that he was a moslem terrorist, and my thoughts do not mean
much. Just my opinion..
rubicon
Quote from: 08rubicon on March 28, 2015, 02:10:06 AM
The co-pilot deliberately piloted this airplane with passengers in an 8 to 10
minute decent into a mountain while hearing the passengers screaming..He
may or may not have been a moslem, but was a terrorist.
That not makes him a terrorist, that makes him a mass murderer.
QuoteThe FBI defines mass murder as murdering four or more persons during an event with no "cooling-off period" between the murders. A mass murder typically occurs in a single location where one or more people kill several others.[2][3] Many acts of mass murder end with the perpetrator(s) dying by suicide or suicide by cop.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murder)
Although terrorism is a word of wide use and difficult to specify and perhaps for this very reason, has been strategically chosen, being used when you expect a certain reaction of a target audience.
For the purpose of disambiguation, I will stand with the use of the most common, which is the one who is perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal and in this case, i see no reason to call him a terrorist unless some new fact proves that he acted with this purpose.
QuoteTerrorism is commonly defined as violent acts (or the threat of violent acts) intended to create fear (terror), perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal, and which deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g., neutral military personnel or civilians). Another common definition sees terrorism as political, ideological or religious violence by non-state actors. Some definitions now include acts of unlawful violence and war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism)
Quote from: ArMaP on March 27, 2015, 09:16:01 PM
What that guy says is that "all evidence point to", he does say it was.
And I don't think I will accepted some unknown guy's theories as truth.
He probably doesn't accept your theories either!
Quote from: RUSSO on March 27, 2015, 10:50:58 PM
It is impressive how, after 9/11, much of the world's population, is conditioned to think of terrorism when a plane crashes.
We are all Pavlov's dogs now.
Isn't it great how that 'fear' has caused us to cringe from reality! We call the Ford Hood attack "Workplace related violence", even as the perpetrator screamed 'aluha ackbar', and was a 'soldier of Allah'! We, like Obama, will not call ISIS Islamic, even though everything they do is from the Koran!
It is time to call it what it is, Terrorism!
Time to remove our heads from the sand and face reality!
If he was a convert to Islam, then it was done in the name of Allah, and it is 'Terrorism'!
Heaven forbid if somebody states the truth!
Quote from: spacemaverick on March 27, 2015, 04:24:44 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/27/more-questions-than-answers-after-report-that-germanwings-pilot-locked-out/
The autopilot on the doomed Germanwings plane that crashed into the Alps was abruptly switched to descend to 100 feet, according to a new report Thursday.
FlightRadar24, an online tracking service that uses satellite data, found evidence the autopilot was adjusted to its lowest setting before the plane started its steady fall from the sky, Reuters reported.
French prosecutors said Andreas Lubitz, the 28-year-old who officials say locked the pilot out of the Germanwings cockpit and then calmly slammed the plane into a mountainside at 430 miles per hour. He reportedly battled burnout and depression in 2009, while training to realize his dream of flying.
FlightRadar said its review of data showed the autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 feet to 100 feet and 9 seconds later the aircraft started to descend, probably with the "open descent" autopilot setting, the firm's CEO Fredrik Lindahl said. The plane slammed into a mountain at 6,000 feet, killing 150 people.
Lindahl said FlightRadar24 shared its findings with French crash investigators.
Video available at the link....
Mav, isn't it ironic that FlightRadar could monitor this flight from sat data, but not MH370?
or am I missing something?
seeker
Quote from: starwarp2000 on March 28, 2015, 03:29:09 AM
Isn't it great how that 'fear' has caused us to cringe from reality!
Thats the point.
QuoteIt is time to call it what it is, Terrorism!
Based on what?
QuoteTime to remove our heads from the sand and face reality!
Thats the point again.
QuoteIf he was a convert to Islam, then it was done in the name of Allah, and it is 'Terrorism'!
Thats a very simplistic and poor view about how a complex human being works. Not to mention the fact that it is in a big conditional sentence and it smells like:
(https://odessablog.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/minstry.jpg)
Ironically and interestingly, this time there is no indications of a government engaged in the propaganda. Then this ministry should be of a different nature.
QuoteHeaven forbid if somebody states the truth!
What truth?
The only FACT i know is that the guy had psychological problems.
QuoteCo-pilot in jet crash said to have had depression.
German authorities said they have found documents that show Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, who allegedly crashed his aircraft into the French Alps, was receiving medical treatment. (Reuters)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/report-co-pilot-on-doomed-flight-had-psychological-treatments-in-past/2015/03/27/b1818c48-d40b-11e4-8b1e-274d670aa9c9_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/report-co-pilot-on-doomed-flight-had-psychological-treatments-in-past/2015/03/27/b1818c48-d40b-11e4-8b1e-274d670aa9c9_story.html)
It did monitor 370 but had disappeared when transponder was turned off but later was found someone had either manipulated the figures or there was a glitch. I will have to find that for you.
http://www.flightradar24.com/F2TH/5dc086e
This is something I just pulled off on my state. You have to click on a plane to get the information to come up on the left side of the screen.
Be right back in a few minutes and I will see if I can find the 370 flight track...DAHBOO7 on you tube brought that up if I am not mistaken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JpbZZKqxy0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JpbZZKqxy0
Here you go seeker.....
For Seeker, this is a problem with Flight tracker...this is for MH 370....do we believe Flight Tracker?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toRr_9dfbyA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toRr_9dfbyA
Quote from: micjer on March 27, 2015, 07:57:50 PM
Ok this is just weird. Coincidence??
An Oscar nominated film to be released in the UK today showing member of aircrew locking himself in cockpit to crash a plane and kill everyone on board
http://www.thebigwobble.org/2015/03/an-oscar-nominated-film-to-be-released.html
Film fans raise chilling similarity between Wild Tales and Alps disaster First scenes of movie show madman crashing jet to murder his enemies Acclaimed Argentinian film released in UK today and is out in America Controversial movie was released in Germany and Spain last autumn An Oscar-nominated film will still be released in the UK today despite its disturbing similarities to the Alps air disaster. Argentinian film Wild Tales features a mass killer who locks himself in the cockpit of a passenger jet and crashes it in to the ground to murder everyone on board. In terrifying scenes the fictional passengers panic and one tries to smash his way through a door to get to the controls in chillingly similar circumstances to the ill-fated Germanwings Airbus A320 flight. The fictional killer invites his enemies on to the flight, including a lover who jilted him and a colleague who was hard on him at work, so he can kill them. Despite protests the highly-acclaimed movie will be shown in British cinemas from today, however, it was released in Spain and Germany last year although it is not known if Andreas Lubitz had seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3sKO5OInrM
Predictive programming, perhaps?
It is strangely weird to say the least Amaterasu. I also wonder if there is a common thread among these crashes...don't know...just a strange feeling.
When the pilot Andreas Lubitz plunged the plane to 100ft
he made the mental decision to terrorize and deliberately kill
150 people. No doubt he had thought this over, that would
make this premediated mass murder.
It was an act of terrorism regardless of any political correct
label not applied. If this is not terrorism, nothing is.
imo of course
BTS, you are correct. Not only did he terrorize the people on that aircraft...I am sure it will have a profound affect on the traveling public for awhile. I remember how I felt getting on board an airliner after 9/11 and the USS Cole incident but I did it anyway. I had to face that fear to conquer it. No matter if it is Muslim related or not, it terrorized people.
SM, there will be a profound effect left on many...as you have said
travellers and also pilots, those who work in air travel etc.
I understand that "terrorism" has been propagandized...yet at some
point then that can be used by the media in reverse to deny what
is actually truth.
Also as Seeker said, odd the discrepencies ...
Something bad afoot.
And to further illustrate the case:
Airbus A320 crash a 'criminal, crazy, suicidal' act, says French PM
QuoteTHE former girlfriend of German co-pilot Andreas Lubitz has broken her silence about the tormented man who killed 149 people and himself in the Germanwings plane crash on Tuesday.
The woman, who remains anonymous, told the German newspaper Bild that Lubitz would wake from nightmares screaming "We're going down".
"When I heard about the crash, there was just a tape playing in my head of what he said, 'One day I will do something that will change the system and everyone will then know my name and remember me'," she said.
"I did not know what he meant by that at the time, but now it's clear."
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/airbus-a320-crash-a-criminal-crazy-suicidal-act-says-french-pm/story-fnizu68q-1227282147886 (http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/airbus-a320-crash-a-criminal-crazy-suicidal-act-says-french-pm/story-fnizu68q-1227282147886)
Quote from: RUSSO on March 28, 2015, 07:28:47 AM
I think this generalization of the word "terrorist" serves a very specific objective.
I would agree with you on that.
QuoteNot to mention this causes a growing confusion in the population minds, which in my view, is intrinsically related to why they choose and use it in the first place to connote attacks to a government generating fear in the population.
Yes, again here I would agree.
Quote
You may say, but this event made more people fear to flight comercial flights. To this I say to you, only if you believe that this was terrorism. Remember that there is crazy people driving busses and cars too.
Here is where the meaning of "terroism" becomes politicized, yet at the
same time if a government minimizes such a horrific act as this, it really
makes me wonder what they are hiding.
It is very early on in the investigation, much more will come about
as time goes on. As with MH 370, we will likely see many cover the
truth for many different reasons.
Yet in this instance, we know the act of mass murder was deliberate.
Quote from: burntheships on March 28, 2015, 07:41:23 AM
Here is where the meaning of "terroism" becomes politicized, yet at the
same time if a government minimizes such a horrific act as this, it really
makes me wonder what they are hiding.
What you mean by minimized? The guy will be ever known as a mass murder. He is tainted, his family is tainted forever.
We need to be more careful or else we will end seeing people calling his ex girlfriend a terrorist accusing her to be the cause of this madness. ::)
QuoteIt is very early on in the investigation, much more will come about
as time goes on. As with MH 370, we will likely see many cover the
truth for many different reasons.
Check my last post above yours.
QuoteYet in this instance, we know the act of mass murder was deliberate.
Yes... but it does not make him a "terrorist" in the political sense we are used to understand it.
Quote from: Amaterasu on March 28, 2015, 06:05:29 AM
Predictive programming, perhaps?
That reminds me of the Aurora Theater shooting. James Holmes reportedly had a fascination with The Joker. It's possible that he had a psychotic break that precipitated his actions. From what I've read in the newspaper, it sounds like the co-pilot might have had a psychotic break that precipitated his actions.
Shasta
Quote from: starwarp2000 on March 28, 2015, 03:20:13 AM
He probably doesn't accept your theories either!
That's the best thing to do, nobody should accept anyone's theories just because they support their own point of view or just because that person is somewhat famous.
So here we go again with several different stories coming out.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/psych-medicine-found-at-home-of-germanwings-copilot-20150328-1ma51z.html
Actual evidence here: A search of one of the homes of the French Alps crash co-pilot Andreas Lubitz has reportedly found medicines for psychological illness.
A German newspaper said investigators made the discovery in the Duesseldorf home of Lubitz, who is suspected of deliberately crashing a passenger jet into the French Alps.
It also said personal notes showed the Germanwings co-pilot was suffering from being overstressed and was severely depressive.
A person close to the investigation said Lubitz was suffering from a psychosomatic illness, and was being treated by several neurologists and psychiatrists for his sickness.
Lubitz sought treatment for vision problems that may have put an end to his career as a pilot, The New York Times reported, citing two officials with knowledge of the investigation.
One of the people said authorities have not ruled out the possibility the sight problem may have been psychosomatic. Neither police nor prosecutors could be reached by Bloomberg for comment on the report.
Psychosomatic disorders are physical diseases that are thought to have mental reasons such as stress and anxiety.
German prosecutors believe Lubitz hid an illness from his airline and had been written off sick on the day of the air disaster, which killed 150 people.
Police have started questioning those close to the first officer on the flight to try and understand what may have caused him to deliberately steer the plane into a mountainside, Ralf Herrenbrueck, spokesman for the Dusseldorf prosecutors office handling the case, said by phone Saturday.
Investigators are focusing on the 27-year-old's mental health after they found a doctor's note among torn-up medical documents certifying him unfit for work on the day of the crash. Authorities said he hadn't told Germanwings about his medical condition.
He wanted people to know who he was:
http://www.euronews.com/2015/03/28/one-day-the-world-will-know-my-name-germanwings-co-pilot-lubitz-declared/
Andreas Lubitz wanted to "change the system" and said "one day everyone would know his name", an ex-girlfriend
of the 27-year-old has told German tabloid Bild.
An investigation is underway into the co-pilot believed to have deliberately crashed the Germanwings Airbus A320.
A torn up doctor's note, recovered from one of his residences, indicates he could have been excused from work for medical reasons on the day of the disaster.
Dumped by girlfriend the day before the crash
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/28/germanwings-co-pilot-dumped-by-girlfriend-day-before-crash-being-treated-for/
The co-pilot Andreas Lubitz who steered an airline with 150 people on board into a French mountainside had been dumped by his girlfriend the day prior to the crash and was undergoing treatment for depression from a doctor, according to reports Saturday.
The Wall Street Journal reported that Lubitz was under the care of a neuropsychologist for depression. The doctor gave Lubitz a note excusing him from the work the day of the crash but he ignored the advice and reported to work, the paper said, citing a person familiar with the investigation.
more at the link on the girlfriend....plus a video...
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/germanwings-co-pilot-s-non-existent-muslim-conversion_901589.html
Blogs and social media has been abuzz with talk of a supposed "German news report" indicating that Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525, was a Muslim convert. In fact, there is no such report. The rumor that Lubitz converted to Islam got started on the German site Politically Incorrect. In the American blogosphere, Politically Incorrect is being cited as a "German news website." It is not a news site, however, but rather is an overtly anti-Islamic blog/forum. The confusion apparently arose from the site's url: www.pi-news.net.
Given the orientation of the site and reports that Germanwings 9525 was intentionally crashed by the co-pilot, it is hardly surprising that commentators on Politically Incorrect would speculate about whether Lubitz was a Muslim. Reference was made in particular to a blog post by a site regular named Michael Mannheimer. Mannheimer's post contains no evidence that Lubitz was a Muslim convert, but just more speculation. Mannheimer's conjecture is based on such apparently suspicious details as the fact that Lubitz did flight training in Bremen and Bremen is also home to a mosque known for its radicalism. In fairness to Politically Incorrect, it should be noted that several commentators on the site have themselves rejected the speculations in Mannheimer's post as unfounded, including one who remarked that he "must have been very drunk" when he wrote it.
So far this is the only source that reported that he was a Muslim convert.
**********This post was realocated because a problem when triyng to split the post.***********
QuoteQuote from: burntheships on March 27, 2015, 11:51:41 PM
It was an act of terrorism regardless of any political correct
label not applied. If this is not terrorism, nothing is.
So a man that beats his wife is a terrorist, a bigger guy that bully a weak person is a terrorist, a cop that use his power to make someone feel intimidated is a terrorist, a thief that uses a weapon to rob a group of people and terrorise them is a terrorist too.
I think this generalization of the word "terrorist" serves a very specific objective. Not to mention this causes a growing confusion in the population minds, which in my view, is intrinsically related to why they choose and use it in the first place to connote attacks to a government generating fear in the population.
You may say, but this event made more people fear to flight comercial flights. To this I say to you, only if you believe that this was terrorism. Remember that there is crazy people driving busses and cars too.
Politically loaded and emotionally charged as it is, one day you may find yourself called a terrorist because you fought your neighbor or something banal like this due the trivialization of the meaning it have.
Originally posted by Zorgon.
Quote from: RUSSO on March 28, 2015, 07:28:47 AM
So a man that beats his wife is a terrorist, a bigger guy that bully a weak person is a terrorist, a cop that use his power to make someone feel intimidated is a terrorist, a thief that uses a weapon to rob a group of people and terrorise them is a terrorist too.
Well we used to call them THUGS :P
Thug: a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer. "Thug" is derived from Thuggies or Thuggees.
The Thugs traveled in groups across India for six hundred years. Although the Thugs traced their origin to seven Muslim tribes, Hindus appear to have been associated with them at an early period. The Thugs would join travelers and gain their confidence. This would allow them to then surprise and strangle their victims by pulling a handkerchief or noose tight around their necks. They would then rob their victims of valuables and bury their bodies.
Sounds like 'terrorists" to me :P Odd that they have a Muslim origin... I always thought they were from India
QuoteI think this generalization of the word "terrorist" serves a very specific objective. Not to mention this causes a growing confusion in the population minds, which in my view, is intrinsically related to why they choose and use it in the first place to connote attacks to a government generating fear in the population.
Generalization is a human nature. Look at the way all Masons Rosicrucians ets are all "Illuminati" and all government are evil Cabal (yet none of those people could survive a week without the government :P )
Flying has been relatively free from the highjackings in recent years. They mostly stopped when we bombed Kadafi's house and killed his family (though he was living in a tent and they missed him) No more safe haven for high jackers.
Now we see a new rash. You would THINK the airlines would take steps to fix it. We wanted to go to Japan before Fukushima Still do Okinawa is safe and that is the place to go... Plane fare was 3.000.00ish It is now down to 600-800.00 round trip. So prices are effected because people are afraid to fly, whether terrorists, TSA goons molesting you and stealing your stuff, or natural disasters
Well its a moot point I can't afford to fly much these days :P
QuoteYou may say, but this event made more people fear to flight commercial flights. To this I say to you, only if you believe that this was terrorism. Remember that there is crazy people driving busses and cars too.
True but most people I talk to fly only when they need to. Its getting to be too much of a hassle on top of the fear
QuotePolitically loaded and emotionally charged as it is, one day you may find yourself called a terrorist because you fought your neighbor or something banal like this due the trivialization of the meaning it have.
If you believe that 9/11 was done by the US Cabal... you are already a terrorist :P
What if...the co-pilot did not fly this airbus into the mountain...The idea of
blaiming every crime on depression and possible psychological problems is
beginning to worry me..It seems as if someone is trying to find most of the
human race psychologically unfit to exist. Most psychiatrist might find that
most of us are somewhat depressed or unfit to do the normal things like,
voting, owning a firearm, having children,getting married, or driving a car.
I read someplace that a military jet squacked 7700 just before the
germanwings went down...could an accidental air strike have brought this
plane to destruction? Have you heard anymore of this emergency traffic?
Afterall, I am a conspiracy nut, which would put me in with the undesirables
rubicon
Quote from: 08rubicon on March 28, 2015, 10:01:05 PM
What if...the co-pilot did not fly this airbus into the mountain...The idea of
blaiming every crime on depression and possible psychological problems is
beginning to worry me.
Yesterday I was talking with my sisters about it, and as we all are affected by depression in different levels we all know a little about what we were talking about, and we all agreed that, depression or no depression, if the co-pilot was able to board the plane and talk to the pilot without raising suspicions then he was not under a great depression, and if he had suicidal intentions he had mostly a big disregard for other people's lives.
Neither I or my sisters remembered any case of someone suffering from depression and having suicidal thoughts that thinks/thought of killing himself/herself in a way that would also kill other people.
one online site huffs out the correct headline
THE SPECULATION GAME
Quote from: 08rubicon on March 28, 2015, 10:01:05 PM
What if...the co-pilot did not fly this airbus into the mountain...The idea of
blaiming every crime on depression and possible psychological problems is
beginning to worry me..It seems as if someone is trying to find most of the
human race psychologically unfit to exist. Most psychiatrist might find that
most of us are somewhat depressed or unfit to do the normal things like,
voting, owning a firearm, having children,getting married, or driving a car.
I read someplace that a military jet squacked 7700 just before the
germanwings went down...could an accidental air strike have brought this
plane to destruction? Have you heard anymore of this emergency traffic?
Afterall, I am a conspiracy nut, which would put me in with the undesirables
rubicon
I agree and his life did not seem to be the life of a person who would take hundreds with him to die. IMO
They said his treatment was not for mental illness according to his Dr who wrote the note it could have been anything even the flu and he decided to go to work and not use the Dr excuse note.
Many years ago he was depressed, depressed like 3/4 of the world and now people who don't know say he has "a mental illness". He is being hacked apart and cannot answer to the accusations. What happened to "someone else, a stewardess could have gone into the cockpit? Now some Ex Girlfriend comes forward and tells her story and they now find pills which were never mentioned when they found the note.
Looking over the parts of his life that we do know it is very difficult for me to think he was the type to take hundreds to their death and he did not SEEM to be living life like a radical muslim for instance living with his girlfriend would have been prohibited.
QuoteAfterall, I am a conspiracy nut, which would put me in with the undesirables rubicon
:) Yeah me to I guess sometimes in these case I think back to the newscasters who started speaking gibberish on the air. Sound effected brain control. ;D
Quote from: space otter on March 28, 2015, 10:23:52 PM
one online site huffs out the correct headline
THE SPECULATION GAME
That's all it is until all the facts are in.....
Depression is being pushed in the UK media a lot, in fact to ridiculous proportions, ever since Robin Williams... I think big Pharma saw it as a marketing opportunity.
They wanna dope us all.
Another update:
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/29/germanwings/70626170/
The co-pilot of the doomed Germanwings flight repeatedly suggested that the captain leave the cockpit, then locked him out and stymied his desperate efforts to return, according to media reports Sunday.
Flight 9525's captain, Patrick Sondheimer, screamed, "For God's sake, open the door!" when he realized co-pilot Andreas Lubitz had essentially jammed the cockpit door, according to data recorder transcripts obtained by the German newspaper Bild................The Bild transcript, translated by London's Daily Mail, describes a tranquil cockpit after takeoff where Lubitz suggested Sondheimer go to the toilet, noting that Sondheimer had not done so in Barcelona. About 20 minutes later, Lubitz says, "You can go now."
Two minutes later the pilot says, "You can take over," and apparently leaves the cockpit. The plane begins its descent almost immediately, at 10:29 a.m. local time.
Within minutes, Bild describes a loud bang as someone attempts to enter the cockpit, then Sondheimer yells, "For God's sake, open the door!" Passengers are heard screaming.
At 10:35 a.m., more banging, and less than two minutes later the pilot is heard yelling "Open the goddam door!"
At 10:40 a.m., the right wing of the jet clips a mountain and the last sounds are those of passengers screaming. Bild reports.
German newspaper Die Welt reported that Lubitz was suffering from a "psychosomatic" illness and that investigators found prescription medication in his Duesseldorf apartment. Other German media reported Lubitz apparently suffered from depression. According to Bild, Lubitz was being treated for vision problems that he feared could jeopardize his career.
The pastor of the Lutheran church in Lubitz's hometown of Montabaur said Sunday that the community stands by him and his family.
"For us, it makes it particularly difficult that the only victim from Montabaur is suspected to have caused this tragedy," pastor Michael Dietrich told the Associated Press. "The co-pilot, the family belong to our community, and we stand by this, and we embrace them and will not hide this, and want to support the family in particular."
Philip Bramley, whose son Paul, 27, a Briton, died in the crash, said such an incident "should never happen again."
He said: "What happened on the morning of 24 March was the act of a person who at the very least was ill," Sky News reported Saturday.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd0_1427617812
Speculation continues and still no flight data recorder....where is the FDR? All we know is that an aircraft flew into a mountain...having the FDR would lessen speculation as to what happened in detail in the cockpit regarding control or lack thereof in the cockpit.
Link above also has a video....
Speculation continues to surround Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot believed to have deliberately crashed Germanwings flight 9525, particularly about his mental health at the time the Airbus A-320 flew into a mountain.
When questioned by AFP, French and German investigators declined to confirm or deny reports suggesting Andreas Lubitz had been treated by neurologists and psychiatrists.
Some of the speculation is based on apparently leaked information.
Germanwings pilot Frank Woiton is from the same German hometown of Mountabaur as Lubitz.
"I flew with that colleague three or four weeks ago," he said, referring to Lubitz. "I had quite a normal notion of him. He even had future plans. He said that he is happy to fly for Lufthansa that he wants to fly long distance. He wants to become A380-pilot."
Meanwhile, Evan Cullen, president of the Irish Airline Pilots Association said he was not happy with media coverage of the crash.
"We still don't know exactly what happened," he told broadcaster Marian Finucane during an interview on RTE Radio One. "We have no technical report and we certainly don't have a report from qualified accident investigators according to the international rules."
When Finucane said it seemed "a little unfair" that Lubitz had been "found guilty more or less overnight," Cullen explained: "Where I have the difficulty is that a country such as France, which signed up to the international conventions on accident investigation and doing it properly and scientifically, has allowed a magistrate jump to this conclusion without any technical report, without any sign-off from a technical expert. They have done all of this in the absence of the flight data recorder."
"I'm flying airplanes 26 years," Cullen said. "I never ever recall an accident such as this where a determination has been made by an authority in 48 hours in the absence of the flight data recorder. It is an extraordinary thing that's happened."
A chief French investigator said on Saturday it was too early to rule out other explanations for the crash.
"There is obviously a scenario that is well known to the media and which we are focusing on," French investigator General Jean-Pierre Michel told French media.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd0_1427617812#K7kAwdEBmZZATfQd.99
"Flight 9525's captain, Patrick Sondheimer, screamed, "For God's sake, open the door!" when he realized co-pilot Andreas Lubitz had essentially jammed the cockpit door, according to data recorder transcripts obtained by the German newspaper Bild................The Bild transcript, translated by London's Daily Mail, describes a tranquil cockpit after takeoff where Lubitz suggested Sondheimer go to the toilet, noting that Sondheimer had not done so in Barcelona. About 20 minutes later, Lubitz says, "You can go now."
This article speaks of data recorder transcripts and the other article does not....well did they find it or not...back to digging. Looking back...it is the transcript of the voice recorder and not the FDR...so the made an error in reporting. FDR not found yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ4A_XtkS_o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ4A_XtkS_o
American victims of Germanwings crash identified / Germanwings Flight 9525
Published on Mar 25, 2015
New details have emerged about two Americans that were killed when Germanwings Flight 9525 crashed. They were identified as a U.S. government contractor and her daughter.
Yvonne Selke worked for Booz Allen Hamilton. Betty Thompson, an executive vice president with that consulting firm, described Yvonne as "a wonderful co-worker and a dedicated employee" in a statement to The Washington Post. Yvonne Selke's daughter was with her....
Booz Allen Hamilton....hmmmmm...same place Edward Snowden worked...what's up?
Quote from: Shasta56 on March 28, 2015, 03:28:13 PM
That reminds me of the Aurora Theater shooting. James Holmes reportedly had a fascination with The Joker. It's possible that he had a psychotic break that precipitated his actions. From what I've read in the newspaper, it sounds like the co-pilot might have had a psychotic break that precipitated his actions.
Shasta
I'm going to guess the incident in Aurora was much more highly controlled than that. He looked like He was drugged to the hilt and shoved into place at His cue. Has anyOne gone and seen Him in His cell?
The probabilities mount, and after Sandy Hook, so sloppily done and with Noah getting killed in that skirmish in the middle east... I start with the premise it's false and see how convincing the evidence is, and ask Myself if there could be any profit/control motive involved. Most often that approach explains well what I see.
Quote from: Amaterasu on March 30, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
I'm going to guess the incident in Aurora was much more highly controlled than that. He looked like He was drugged to the hilt and shoved into place at His cue. Has anyOne gone and seen Him in His cell?
The probabilities mount, and after Sandy Hook, so sloppily done and with Noah getting killed in that skirmish in the middle east... I start with the premise it's false and see how convincing the evidence is, and ask Myself if there could be any profit/control motive involved. Most often that approach explains well what I see.
Poor James, I'd bet both my legs on him being Brainwashed and used by the American Agencies.
I keep meaning to follow up his story.
They unconstitutionally drugged him at his last court date.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c63_1427715000
The German airline Lufthansa says it fears the flight data recorder from the Germanwings disaster may never be found.
A manager has told a German television station that damage might have been too serious on impact.
Most of the Airbus A320, which was carrying 150 passengers and crew, was shattered into small pieces.
Recovery of the debris is expected to take weeks.
Investigators have already retrieved information from the cockpit voice recorder, apparently confirming the plane was deliberately crashed into the mountains.
Officials trying to confirm the identities of remains found at the crash site say so far almost 80 different types of DNA have been recovered. Not one single body was found intact.
Because of the rugged terrain, emergency teams are building an access road to the site, to make it easier to remove debris and remains.
Video available at the link.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW8e78WdFdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW8e78WdFdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkpptZ0gDWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkpptZ0gDWw
Distress call from airliner? Speculation continues!
This does not ring well for the airline:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/world/europe/lufthansa-germanwings-andreas-lubitz.html?_r=0
Lufthansa Now Says It Knew of Co-Pilot's Previous Depression
By NICHOLAS KULISHMARCH 31, 2015
DÜSSELDORF, Germany — The co-pilot at the controls of the crashed German jetliner had informed Lufthansa in 2009 about his depressive episodes when he was seeking to rejoin the airline's flight school after a months-long pause in his studies, the company said in a statement Tuesday.
Lufthansa said that it had shared with prosecutors email correspondence between the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, and the flight training school, which included medical records about a "deep depressive episode."
French prosecutors said that Mr. Lubitz apparently crashed the Airbus A320 jet of Germanwings, a Lufthansa subsidiary, into the French Alps intentionally on March 24, killing all 150 people on board. Prosecutors in Germany said Monday that that he had been treated for suicidal tendencies.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/germanwings-flight-9525-final-seconds-captured-in-video-according-to-media-reports/
Report: Video shows final seconds before Germanwings crash
This has been reported by 2 sources so far. From what I understand...it came of a memory card in a device that was found in the rubble.
There is no video placed on the Internet yet.
A video allegedly found at the crash site of Germanwings Flight 9525 captures the terrifying moments inside the passenger jet before it slammed into a mountain in the French Alps, two media outlets reported Tuesday.
French magazine Paris Match and German newspaper Bild am Sonntag reported that they viewed the short cell phone video that was provided to them by a source close to the investigation. Paris Match reports it is difficult to identify people in the video but that the sounds of screaming passengers can be clearly heard as well as cries of "Oh my God" in different languages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6BHX0eSswQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=121&v=N6BHX0eSswQ
From Israeli News...Check out the notes under the video at the youtube site...I cannot copy and paste it...interesting but true. Is this something like TWA 800?
The only thing is one of those reporting this information to him seems to be Sorcha Faal...(red flag)...but still worth the listen.
When I Googled the subject I came up with different sources...I will get back with you all tomorrow when I dig further.
I wonder if anyone has looked into the background of the passengers? Just a thought. Or am I just stirring the conspiracy plot. ;D
Quote from: Pimander on April 01, 2015, 09:03:07 AM
I wonder if anyone has looked into the background of the passengers? Just a thought. Or am I just stirring the conspiracy plot. ;D
Good question...The only thing I found was there was a passenger on board that worked for Booze Hamilton as an NSA contractor. You find this early on in this thread.
Authorities are now saying there was no video found like was reported by 2 publications. I am finding if authorities want to hide something the truth will usually come out in the end. Unfounded conspiracies will usually be found out during the course of an investigation. Sometimes the most obvious is our answer but I don't know in this instance. We shall see.
Anyone willing to steal a dead mans camera memory, and sell it to a news
organization is not to be trusted.The news organization and the memory video
may not legitimate.Could be from a simulator with the family members posing
as passingers.A leak is never a good thing, be it, water,oil,gas,or information.
rubicon
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/03/world/europe/german-aviation-officials-look-at-safety-changes-after-germanwings-crash.html?_r=0
QuoteFrench Investigators Find 2nd Black Box From Germanwings Crash
PARIS — Investigators in France have found the second so-called black box from the German airliner that crashed into the French Alps last week, killing all 150 people on board, an official with knowledge of the inquiry said Thursday.
It is hoped that the second device, known as the flight data recorder, will help investigators to clarify an initial finding, based on cockpit voice recordings, that the plane's co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, intentionally flew the Airbus A320 into a mountain.
The discovery of the device came as a team of German aviation experts and industry representatives planned to examine whether to introduce changes to cockpit door controls and to the medical assessment of pilots in the wake of the crash of Germanwings Flight 4U9525, Germany's transportation minister said Thursday.
Good news.
Thanks Wartoad...just saw this on Yahoo news. Maybe we will get more information now that they have found the Flight Data Recorder. The more information we have the better it is as far as knowledge of what happened is concerned. Right now everything is speculation based on circumstantial evidence. Physical evidence is always better but I think the authroities may have gotten this correct. My views could change if the FDR points to something different.
Just a wild idea on my part; We have Flight data Recorder and Cockpit audio recorder...I think they should incorporate video into the system like they do on buses and other forms of transportation. The feed would go into the Cockpit voice recorder...2 cameras from the cabin could also be incorporated to feed into the recorder. Well...any opinions on my wild idea?
Good idea, video cams are everywhere. Would give an added perspective.
rubicon
Quote from: micjer on March 27, 2015, 07:57:50 PM
Ok this is just weird. Coincidence??
An Oscar nominated film to be released in the UK today showing member of aircrew locking himself in cockpit to crash a plane and kill everyone on board
I was already thinking, "Manchurian candidate," in response to this, and the above more or less confirms it, as far as I'm concerned. The article linked earlier about the pilot's Islamic conversion, also called this, "Germany's 9/11."
The whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point, I think everyone here needs to become familiar with the Monarch Mind Control Program (http://www.whale.to/a/monarch1.html). It utilises extreme trauma to induce Multiple Personality Disorder, which can then be used as a means of programming/controlling victims to carry out assassination and other missions.
I offer a warning that this is raw and potentially troubling material; but once you know about it, virtually none of these sorts of incidents will seem mysterious.
Petrus;
I have thought for many years, that mind control was being used to
implement many destructive events, to control public opinion.The timing
of shootings and other acts of violence, could not just be accidental.
rubicon
Quote from: Pimander on April 01, 2015, 09:03:07 AM
I wonder if anyone has looked into the background of the passengers? Just a thought. Or am I just stirring the conspiracy plot. ;D
That is always the first question I ask myself : ""who was on the plane? , train , ocean liner etc..."
Quote from: hoss58 on April 03, 2015, 05:03:26 PM
That is always the first question I ask myself : ""who was on the plane? , train , ocean liner etc..."
Earlier in the thread I indicated their was a Booz Hamilton contractor for the NSA on board along with her daughter...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/flight-9525-s-second-black-box-confirms-view-on-cause-of-crash-1.2164478
Flight 9525's second black box confirms view on cause of crash
Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz accelerated for maximum impact on descent
The second "black box" of Germanwings flight 9525 has confirmed not only that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz deliberately crashed the Airbus 320 on March 24th, but that he increased the speed as the plane descended to achieve maximum destruction on impact.
"The initial readout [of the flight data recorder] shows that the pilot present in the cockpit used the autopilot to put the aircraft into a descent towards an altitude of 100 feet, then, on several occasions during the descent, the pilot modified the autopilot setting to increase the speed of the descent," the French investigation and analysis bureau BEA said in a statement.
The flight data recorder was discovered in a ravine on the crash site on Thursday by Alice Coldefy, the only woman from the mountain gendarmerie unit based at Chamonix. Coldefy was digging by hand in an area that had already been searched.
"It was in a pile of clothes," she said. "We were moving debris down the slope when I discovered a box the colour of the black gravel in the zone . . . It's a huge relief for everyone working in the zone."
The surface of the recorder was charred and misshapen, but it nonetheless delivered its secrets.
"With the information we received today," Mr Serrat said, "it's 99.9 per cent. We know this was someone who not only managed his suicide in a horrible way, but that it was premeditated and prepared in advance. The most frightening thing is [Lubitz's] calm, to the very end."
The flight's captain had left the aircraft on automatic pilot when he left to go to the toilet.
"Lubitz turns a small button to 100 feet, that is to say well below the ground altitude of approximately 1,500 metres," Mr Serrat said. "The plane starts going down at a rate of 1,000 metres a minute. He's controlling the speed, because . . . as it descends, a plane tends to slow down. Not only is [Lubitz] bringing the plane down, but he takes the cold, deliberate decision to accelerate the speed to the maximum before impact."
More at the link.......
Now I guess we need to look more at the background of the co-pilot with a fine tooth comb....
Quote from: spacemaverick on April 04, 2015, 02:09:07 AM
The most frightening thing is [Lubitz's] calm, to the very end."
I'm reminded of the account of how they ensured obedience in the original
hashisheen, or assassins. A monarch would drug the people he wanted to use as assassins; and the assassins would wake up in a closed, walled garden which contained the proverbial 72 virgins, and various other forms of luxury. After being allowed to spend a few hours in this sumptuous environment, the assassins would be drugged again, and told when they awoke that they had essentially had a Near-Death Experience; that they had been to heaven. They were then told that if they willingly carried out a suicidal assassination mission, then they would return to the walled garden on death.
The interesting thing is that said walled garden actually exists, within astral space. Back in 2005, when I was initially learning to astrally project, that was one of the environments I visited, and on recounting it in the projection forum I was a member of at the time, I was told that my account was very similar to that written by Emmanuel Swedenborg, more than 200 years previously. As one of the great religions, Islam has its' own
astral complex, or set of heaven and hell constructs, just as the other religions do.
So even though the intention was deceptive, it is entirely possible that that pilot will genuinely get his virgins after death, or so it will at least appear to him; although such an astral construct is not a place where I would want to spend my Afterlife. A lavishly appointed, sensual prison is still a prison; and that is exactly what that construct is.
It is not a reward; not really. The astral Heavens and Hells are traps; as Patanjali wrote, there is ultimately only a single eternal reward, and that is freedom. The soul ideally achieves Maha Samadhi, transcends all duality, and merges with the unknowable Divine itself. In comparison with that, this false Islamic heaven with the virgins is nothing more than a juvenile fantasy; it is the equivalent of a pornographic peep show.
Sex is no less a trap and an illusion than any other; in fact, it is a particularly sticky and insidious trap, precisely because in the moment it can be so enjoyable. Yet in the end, the outcome can never be anything other than pain; lovers leave, partners age and die, beauty fades, and disease and children come.
Joy, real love, and the serenity which leads to freedom are real; ultimately, nothing else is.
There are dozens of types of mind control already developed. Some are touted as being created for other medical purposes but we all know if it is a product military can use it will be studied for their use.
Example:
QuoteTwo teams of scientists have developed new ways of stimulating neurons with nanoparticles, allowing them to activate brain cells remotely using light or magnetic fields.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/neurophilosophy/2015/mar/24/remote-control-brain-activity-nanoparticles
So are you all saying that the co-pilot was or may have been under some sort of mind control? Just curious.... And who might have been controlling their mind? It very well could be a possibility or it may be what it appears to be...a very depressive episode.
It just gets stranger...I cannot verify this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1_hnBEt0E
Breaking co-pilot Andreas Lubitz,was not onboard the plane he was found dead in the trunk of his car
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1_hnBEt0E)
Published on Mar 30, 2015
source ;Les vidéos des caméras de surveillance de l'aéroport de Barcelone n'ont jamais été diffusées, ainsi, cette dernière info concernant le copilote Andreas Lubitz prend une nouvelle dimension: Etait-il simplement dans l'avion puisque selon plusieurs médias, dont CBS news2, il aurait été retrouvé mort dans le coffre de sa voiture à l'aéroport de Barcelone le jour du crash de l'Airbus 320 de la Germanwings ?
La question maintenant, qui a pris sa place aux commandes ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YMMsSiaU7A
Germanwings co-pilot depression: Andreas Lubitz suffered mental illness during flight school (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YMMsSiaU7A)
Published on Mar 27, 2015
The co-pilot that deliberately crashed a Germanwings airliner into the French Alps on Tuesday killing all 150 people on board had suffered from depression forcing him to take a break from his training in 2009, it has been revealed.
Quote from: spacemaverick on April 04, 2015, 06:05:27 PM
So are you all saying that the copilot was or may have been under some sort of mind control? Just curious.... And who might have been controlling their mind? It very well could be a possibility or it may be what it appears to be...a very depressive episode.
Yes it could well be just what they are saying but I simply feel wrong about it.
They at first said his Dr. told them he could not say the nature of his Dr visit but that "it was not for mental health reasons". They were very quick to come up with the copilot having mental illness all based at that time on an episode of depression many years ago, clearly he overcame that depression and finished his training. Depression does not turn you into a mass killer.
They made a big thing of the sick note from the Dr. but the workers at my husbands business get them whenever they feel ill and want an out from work...flu whatever, you can use it or decide to go to work and toss it. They did not say it was about mental illness and the Dr had already said it was not.
It is best for the airline to be able to blame this one person and quickly. I know that people who run and do marathons are usually very into life, they release the wonderful brain chemicals which keep you balance by running.
Being depressed in any way is far from being a mass murderer. I went through an extreme time many years ago and attempted suicide. It is a very difficult thing to do and I can't see how you could appear totally normal to a coworker who knows you (on his previous days flight).
I don't like how an appears and tells of weird conversations and dreams. I don't see being a suicide him not putting the plane in a fast steep dive, because if you don't do it fast you will change your mind.
I find it strange they say his laptop he searched suicide...why surely he knew he could die in an airplane crash would this come up in a search? He supposedly searched airliner cockpit doors why? He worked and was trained on an airliner, surely he knew how the door works?
But maybe he was just a nut.
Quote from: thorfourwinds on April 04, 2015, 07:27:48 PM
It just gets stranger...I cannot verify this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1_hnBEt0E
Breaking co-pilot Andreas Lubitz,was not onboard the plane he was found dead in the trunk of his car
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1_hnBEt0E)
Published on Mar 30, 2015
source ;Les vidéos des caméras de surveillance de l'aéroport de Barcelone n'ont jamais été diffusées, ainsi, cette dernière info concernant le copilote Andreas Lubitz prend une nouvelle dimension: Etait-il simplement dans l'avion puisque selon plusieurs médias, dont CBS news2, il aurait été retrouvé mort dans le coffre de sa voiture à l'aéroport de Barcelone le jour du crash de l'Airbus 320 de la Germanwings ?
La question maintenant, qui a pris sa place aux commandes ?
I have a hard time believing this one. Just like the video inside the cabin. I would say to the person who published this...show me the evidence.
Dyna....perhaps un-diagnosed bi-polar disorder and he went into a depressive state. It's really hard to tell unless his treatments come out in the open but everything is a possibility. Most all of this for the most part is circumstantial. We know how circumstantial evidence is because people can be convicted with it and then years later be exonerated with real evidence. We see a lot of that now happening here in the states. Then you have the company trying to hide stuff and possibly the authorities. MH-370, MH-17 and now this oone have a lot of unanswered questions.
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pilot-depression-20150405-story.html#page=1
Aggression, not just depression, led copilot to crash plane, experts say
Mental health experts say that it was aggression — not just depression — that would have driven 27-year-old Andreas Lubitz to deliberately crash a Germanwings airliner into a mountainside, the copilot breathing evenly as passengers screamed and the plane's frantic captain pounded helplessly on the cockpit door.
Unless investigators recognize the toxic role of aggression and hostility in some patients' depression, they say, such troubled individuals will continue to elude detection — to the public's peril.
More at the above link.....
I can believe the story in this link. If this co-pilot had either undiagnosed or untreated bi-polar disorder, he would have manic or depressive episodes. If this is true then he could have just dove it into the ground during a manic episode. I am not an expert but in my years in alw enforcement I have seen people off their meds...some were not diagnosed and some just plain not treated...and it was mis-underrstood at the time. Later on we were given instructions and classes by those with the dis-orders and experts on how to recognize and handle people with the various mental health dis-orders. This was a great help but only a few of us received this training. The area of training is sorely under funded in most sectors in the business world. This class was known as Crisis Intervention Training and was very good.
This article was really very good and more enlightening!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGsxwAdJTwA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGsxwAdJTwA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23VflsU3kZE
San Andreas - Official Trailer 2 [HD] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23VflsU3kZE)
Quote from: spacemaverick on April 04, 2015, 08:30:03 PM
I have a hard time believing this one. Just like the video inside the cabin. I would say to the person who published this...show me the evidence.
I guess that video is gone and the only link I could find doesn't work
proxy.fikri.my/wn.com/Alexander_Doyle
I have a hard time believing the 'official' conclusion
rubicon
Quote from: 08rubicon on April 11, 2015, 10:21:29 PM
I have a hard time believing the 'official' conclusion
rubicon
I have issues with the official conclusion also but also remain open to it is what it really is.....
It's a sad situation, whatever the cause. I know from personal experience, that depressed people can suddenly become violent. Fortunately, I was wearing plastic framed reading glasses when a depressed patient suddenly became violent and hit me in the face. Nothing on a par with taking a plane down, but psychotic breaks do happen.
Shasta
Now it comes out in the open:
Hundreds of planes flying commercially today could be vulnerable to having their onboard computers hacked and remotely taken over by someone using the plane's passenger wifi network, or even by someone on the ground, according to a new report from the Government Accountability Office.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/politics/gao-newer-aircraft-vulnerable-to-hacking/
more at the link...an ah ha moment!
At the present time there is nothing new to report.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/germanwings-pilot-practice-run-crashing-plane-30837998
Practice run earlier in the day for suicide mission? New report.....should pilots ever be alone in the cockpit?
http://www.wsvn.com/story/28992825/germanwings-co-pilot-tried-slow-descent-hours-before-crash
http://www.todayonline.com/world/germanwings-pilot-rehearsed-descent-previous-flight-bea
http://www.voanews.com/content/investigators-germanwings-co-pilot-tried-controlled-descent-before-the-crash/2751007.html
How do the airlines make sure this does not happen again?
Quote from: spacemaverick on May 06, 2015, 10:01:37 PM
How do the airlines make sure this does not happen again?
AI Robots? But then you know that story....
The wonders of A.I., We live now in a reality where nothing can go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...
Quote from: RUSSO on May 06, 2015, 10:19:59 PM
AI Robots? But then you know that story....
The wonders of A.I., We live now in a reality where nothing can go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...
Love that injection of humor, humor, humor.....