Texas Senate Handguns Bill Approved: Open Carry Passes, Drama Ensues
May 24, 2015 | By Garrett Montgomery |
A Texas Senate handguns' bill is causing a heated debate online. The Texas Senate approved a piece of legislation allowing handguns to be carried in public and amended it to make it illegal for Texas police to question or check for proper licensing of people, who are openly carrying handguns despite the recent murders in Waco.
Members of the Texas Senate approved of handguns being carried in public. The senators also demanded that Texas authorities stop harassing people openly carrying handguns.
In a late session, Friday night, elected officials of the Texas Senate passed a piece of legislation allowing people with licenses to carry handguns openly either in a shoulder or belt holster.
The bill eventually passed on a final 20 to 11 vote after six hours of intense debate and the formation of a bizarre coalition consisting of Conservatives, few Tea Party members and a handful of Democrats.
A heated exchange erupted on the Senate floor over an amendment, which made it illegal for Texas authorities to stop and question people solely because they openly carry their firearms in public.
Democrats – Rodney Ellis and Royce West – who supported the handgun open carry bill, claimed it will help prevent racial profiling.
"I have a long history of opposing open carry legislation and a strong record of supporting sensible reforms to reduce gun violence and keep firearms out of the hands of criminals," Ellis, who knew he would be under fire for his position, said in a statement after the Senate vote. "But if open carry is going to become law, law enforcement shouldn't be able to circumvent constitutional rights and detain someone solely because they are open carrying in compliance with the law."
However, gun control advocates, police, and even few Republicans have fiercely spoken against the bill. They cited last week's fatal Texas shootout between Waco biker gangs armed to the teeth and police that left nine men dead and 18 injured.
Sen. Joan Huffman, a Republican, who was against the amendment, stated:
"This is just a backdoor to constitutional carry because really any person could just carry a gun without a license because they know the police can't inquire of them if they have a license."
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When asked if the handgun open carry bill would have led to more deaths in Waco, Texas Governor Greg Abbott replied by saying:
"Well, the shootout occurred when we don't have open carry. So obviously the current laws didn't stop anything like that."
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The Republican governor plans to sign the bill after it gets a final vote in the House. A similar bill allowing concealed handguns in college classrooms is also going to be signed into law before the end of summer.
What are your thoughts on Texas' open carry bill?
http://www.thespreadit.com/texas-senate-handguns-open-57045/
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and if that isn't enough.. read this....yipes..
omg it's omg
oh my god .. it's outlaw motorcycle gangs
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/22/atf-report-warned-military-government-membership-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs/
Exclusive: Leaked Report Profiles Military, Police Members of Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
By Jana Winter and Jordan Smith
Nuclear power plant technicians, senior military officers, FBI contractors and an employee of "a highly-secretive Department of Defense agency" with a Top Secret clearance. Those are just a few of the more than 100 people with sensitive military and government connections that law enforcement is tracking because they are linked to "outlaw motorcycle gangs."
A year before the deadly Texas shootout that killed nine people on May 17, a lengthy report by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives detailed the involvement of U.S. military personnel and government employees in outlaw motorcycle gangs, or OMGs. A copy of the report was obtained by The Intercept.
The report lays out, in almost obsessive detail, the extent to which OMG members are represented in nearly every part of the military, and in federal and local government, from police and fire departments to state utility agencies. Specific examples from the report include dozens of Defense Department contractors with Secret or Top Secret clearances; multiple FBI contractors; radiological technicians with security clearances; U.S. Department of Homeland Security employees; Army, Navy and Air Force active-duty personnel, including from the special operations force community; and police officers.
"The OMG community continues to spread its tentacles throughout all facets of government," the report says.
The relationship between OMGs and law enforcement has come under scrutiny after it became known that law enforcement were on site in Waco bracing for conflict.
The 40-page report, "OMGs and the Military 2014," issued by ATF's Office of Strategic Intelligence and Information in July of last year, warned of the escalating violence of these gangs. "Their insatiable appetite for dominance has led to shootings, assaults and malicious attacks across the globe. OMGs continue to maim and murder over territory," the report said. "As tensions escalate, brazen shootings are occurring in broad daylight."
The ATF report is based on intelligence gathered by dozens of law enforcement and military intelligence agencies, and identifies about 100 alleged associates of the country's most violent outlaw motorcycle gangs and support clubs who have worked in sensitive government or military positions.
Those gangs "continue to court active-duty military personnel and government workers, both civilians and contractors, for their knowledge, reliable income, tactical skills and dedication to a cause," according to the report. "Through our extensive analysis, it has been revealed that a large number of support clubs are utilizing active-duty military personnel and U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) contractors and employees to spread their tentacles across the United States."
The report predicted that six dominant OMGs — Mongols, Hells Angels, Outlaws, Pagans, Bandidos and Vagos — would continue to expand, with escalating violence. The groups are known as "one-percenter" clubs, a moniker they proudly use to denote their outlaw status. The report identifies the most violent as Bandidos and Hell's Angels support clubs — the same groups involved in a deadly shootout in Waco, Texas on Sunday.
The deadly confrontation involved the Bandidos and a rival club, the Cossacks MC, who are backed by Bandidos' arch rivals, the Hell's Angels. The shootout was part of a ongoing turf battle: Without permission from the Bandidos, Cossacks members have begun wearing a patch on their vests that claims Texas as the club's territory — a figurative thumb in the eye of the Bandidos, long the state's dominant motorcycle club. Nine people were killed and more than 170 bikers were arrested in the noontime showdown.
On Wednesday, law enforcement in Texas confirmed to several media outlets that one of the bikers arrested in the massive post-shootout sweep was a former San Antonio police detective, who joined the Bandidos after retiring from the department after 32 years.
The ATF report identifies the Bandidos as the dominant and most violent of the motorcycle gangs in Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi, and identifies a staff sergeant instructor in the United States Air Force, currently stationed at Keesler Air Force Base, as the president of the local Pistoleros chapter, a Bandidos support club. According to the report, he routinely hosts parties for active duty military personnel.
In response to questions about the report, an ATF spokesperson said, "This was supposed to be solely a law enforcement tool to help fight violent crime. It was not supposed to be out there in the ether for general consumption." The Intercept, after consulting with ATF, has redacted some portions of the report.
In an interview, Edward Winterhalder, a former high-ranking member of the Bandidos who left the club in 2003, said that while military veterans have long been involved in motorcycle clubs — many of the current outlaw clubs were formed in the wake of World War II — current-duty military or law enforcement members are not generally involved in the most violent gangs.
According to Winterhalder, biker clubs not associated with the violent one-percenters have many government employees — current military, law enforcement and firefighters — as members. Indeed, some clubs have emerged that pointedly disavow any connections to violence or lawlessness, or that specifically bill themselves as a LEMC — law enforcement motorcycle club.
Among those are the Iron Circle LEMC, a Texas club formed in 2006; the Arizona-founded Roughnecks Country MC — for the "99 percent ... that gives a shit about society and the laws that govern the world we live in"; the Iron Order MC, a fiercely independent club that strongly rejects the ethos of the one-percenters; and the Protectors LEMC, which requires a criminal background check for prospective members.
Nonetheless, the report documents extensive involvement of current-duty military and government personnel in the outlaw groups, and does not mention LEMCs.
The report is a testament to how seriously law enforcement takes the issue of outlaw motorcycle gangs, detailing extensive surveillance; the document includes copies of military or government identification photos, some gained from traffic stops, and information from what appears to be close monitoring of military and government officials who attend the groups' gatherings and activities across the country.
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A copy of the report was obtained by The Intercept.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2085684-omgs-july-2014-redacted.html
That is odd I always thought Texas WAS open carry?
Dang looks like not according to the list on Wikipedia. Have a look here see all the states that DO have open carry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States
The constitution says we have the right to bear arms... If you can't carry those arms what is the point? :P
Nevada has unrestricted open carry and we still have machine guns legally, yet you rarely see anyone packing heat on the streets.
Out on the range? yeah even John's wife packs a colt 45 :P
There was a recent case in Reno where the local Sheriff thought it was ILLEGAL to open carry in Reno. That is the problem... the cops assume it is illegal to carry and harass you.
Here in Vegas there is a sign on the doors that specifically state you can'y bring your gun inside, though they have never stopped us with the swords :D (they did question the Bow and Arrow though but that was only the newbies :D )
The Bundy Ranch incident showed that the Old West is still much alive out here. Arizona also has open carry. Those Federal hired goons did stand down in the end and not one shot fired :D When the Las Vegas Metro police arrived people thought it would get ugly but they were in support of the Ranchers
Open Carry States
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Idaho,Kansas Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine. Michigan (restrictions), Missisippi, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, Washington,West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming All those states are permissive (no license to carry required)
Utah: A license is required to openly carry a loaded firearm (e.g., a live round of ammunition in the firing chamber of the weapon). No license necessary when the weapon is unloaded and exposed.
Connecticut: Open carry with a valid pistol permit is legal statewide. Connecticut is Shall-Issue, with Limited Discretion for granting pistol permits.
California: Open carry legal in rural counties with local ordinances allowing open carry. Some of these counties issue a permit for open carry.
Oklahoma: This one is interesting. Residents of permitless carry states may openly carry without a license with a valid ID from their home state.
well this made me think... I do know you have to have a license for a concealed weapon and I was sure you couldn't just wander around wearing a gun...although hunting season is another story around here
so , of course I had to look it up...
hummmmm very surprised at what I have found...
thanks for posting Z.. you made me learn more about where I live
http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/open-carry/
Open Carry in Pennsylvania
While Pennsylvania has a specific law that requires a License To Carry Firearms for the concealed carry of a firearm, and the carry of firearms in vehicles, the law is silent on the legality of openly carrying a firearm in other situations, making it de-facto legal.
There is however a law that requires a License To Carry Firearms to carry either way in "cities of the first class", which as defined by law is only the city of Philadelphia.
18 Pa.C.S. § 6108: Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia
No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless: (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
(2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
To summarize, open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a License To Carry Firearms except in "cities of the first class" (Philadelphia) and vehicles where a License To Carry Firearms is required to do so.
With that said, we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:
1. Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement.
2. Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation.
3. Being arrested either improperly or for other charges like disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance.
While this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to.
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Pennsylvania Firearm Laws
Being knowledgeable of firearms law is a key part of firearm ownership
In this section of the website we have done our best to collect and organize information on all of the many laws that regulate firearm ownership. Our goal is to provide a resource where current law is explained in plain, easy to understand language with references to the appropriate statutes and court cases where applicable.
Frequently Asked Questions
Owning Firearms
1. Do I have to register my firearms in Pennsylvania?
No, in fact in Pennsylvania it is actually illegal for any government or police agency to keep a registry of firearms per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms). If you legally possess bring your firearms into the Pennsylvania or come into possession of the firearms legally, no further action is required.
It should be noted however that all transfers of handguns in Pennsylvania are required to go through the Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) and as such the Pennsylvania State Police keep a "Sales Database" of all handguns purchased within the Commonwealth. While almost any casual observer can see that this database clearly violates the spirit of 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms), in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court agreed with the Pennsylvania State Police that because the database is not a complete record of all handgun ownership (as people bringing handguns into the state do not have to register them), it does not.
2. How old must one be to possess a firearm?
Per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6110.1 (Possession of firearm by minor), the minimum age to possess a firearm is 18 with two exceptions:
1. The minor is under the supervision of a parent, grandparent, legal guardian, or an adult acting with the expressed consent of the minor's parent or legal guardian and involved in lawful activity.
2. The minor is lawfully involved in hunting or trapping activities.
Carrying Firearms
1. Do I need a License To Carry Firearms carry a concealed firearm in Pennsylvania?
In Pennsylvania a License To Carry Firearms is required to conceal a firearm, or to carry a firearm in a motor vehicle.
For more information please see our Concealed Carry page which goes further into the issue.
2. What states honor Pennsylvania's License To Carry Firearms?
For an up-to-date list of the states that honor Pennsylvania's License To Carry Firearms and what states concealed carry permits we honor, please see our Pennsylvania concealed carry permit reciprocity page.
3. Is my License To Carry Firearms honored in Philadelphia?
Contrary to many rumors that have been floating around for years, a Pennsylvania License To Carry Firearms issued anywhere in the state is good anywhere in the state. Pennsylvania's Uniform Firearms Act provides a pre-emption statute which prevents anyone other than the state legislature from regulating the carry of firearms among other things. At one point in time Philadelphia had attempted to ignore this, but it has long been resolved.
4. Do I need a License To Carry Firearms to openly carry a firearm in Pennsylvania?
In Pennsylvania a License To Carry Firearms is only required to conceal a firearm, or to carry a firearm in a motor vehicle. The law is silent on the act of openly carrying a firearm while not in a vehicle making it de-facto legal. It must be noted however that due to 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia) a License To Carry Firearms is required to carry a firearm in any manner on the streets or public property of a "City of the first class" (Philadelphia.)
For more information please see our Open Carry page which goes further into the issue.
5. If I have a Pennsylvania License To Carry Firearms, can I work as an armed security guard?
No. If you wish to carry a firearm for the purpose of employment you must receive a license in compliance with Act 235, or the Lethal Weapons Training Act.
Sheriff Claims Open Carry is Illegal in Reno (Anonymous Submission)
(http://nvcopblock.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Reno_Open_Carry_Shirt-300x300.jpg)
Open Carry is Completely Legal and Unrestricted in Nevada
This was recently received, via the submission form, from an open carry advocate in Reno who wishes to remain anonymous. It recounts his encounter with a member of the Reno Sheriff's Department during a traffic stop. More importantly, it addresses some questions that arose by the fact that this particular police officer was under the impression that openly carrying a gun in Reno is illegal (spoiler: it's very legal). Additional comments and reaction is included below.
http://nvcopblock.org/188/sheriff-claims-open-carry-illegal-reno/
I do not see anyone walking down the street with a holster on even though we CAN :P
The problems start when the COPS don't know the law. You might get shot before you can explain it to them
There was a recent test with a white guy and a black guy carrying a rifle openly in a state that allows it. The cops were called (thanks to some citizen who called it in) The white guy had no problem the black guy was tossed to the ground arrested and gun confiscated I will try to find the YT video
As stated earlier, it is very much legal to open carry in Nevada, which of course includes Reno. I regards to Reno law taking precedence over state laws, nothing could be further from the truth. The first problem with that idea is that there aren't any Reno statutes prohibiting open carrying of firearms. The second flaw (and the reason for the first one) is that the State of Nevada specifically restricts local jurisdictions from passing gun laws that impose more severe restrictions on gun rights than those imposed by state law.
The LAW in Nevada A Maverick State
NRS 244.364, NRS 268.418, and NRS 269.222 state that the legislature reserves to itself the right to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and that no county, city or town respectively may infringe upon these rights. (emphasis added)
In relation to the Constitution, we're unfortunately at the mercy of whoever is interpreting it and in the case of gun laws the Supreme Court interpreted it to mean that states have a right to restrict how and where citizens may exercise the Second Amendment . Which is why there are varying degrees of legality for openly carrying firearms throughout the different states.
Fortunately for those of us living in Nevada though, our state has one of the most liberal (in the literal sense) applications of gun laws. In fact, with the exception of the requirement to register guns in Clark County, there are no restrictions on open carry within Nevada.
Farm boys always used to have rifles in the pickup trucks Usually a visible rack in the rear window Even in Canada which has strict gun laws for hand guns, rifles are permitted
Getting a concealed weapon permit is not that hard even in New York IF you have a profession that needs it say a jeweler carrying gems for example Sure you need an extensive back ground check (7 years last time they ran me) but today you have to pay for it :P
Nevada and Arizona requires no permit to carry but Clark County requires guns are registered. I can live with that.. at least they know I have them before they stop me :P
But I am more likely to sling a sword than a pistol :D
Re Bikers
Not counting the few renegades that are into illegal stuff... most of the big biker gangs are extremely patriotic and will jump to the defense of any cause.
You need a protest on Washington? call the bikers :P
B.A.C.A.®, Bikers Against Child Abuse®,
http://bacaworld.org/
And this..
(http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/9/13/10/enhanced-buzz-20042-1379084069-13.jpg)
Oddly enough while the Muslims got a permit, the bikers were denied one
Welcome to the New Amerika :P
you left out georgia, z; tis open carry here, and i do have a concealed carry permit 8)
seeker
Quote from: the seeker on May 25, 2015, 03:35:33 AM
you left out georgia, z; tis open carry here, and i do have a concealed carry permit 8)
Sorry Wikipedia has Georgia as "Licenses granted on a Shall-Issue basis." The list I made were states with no permits required to open carry :D Maybe Wiki is wrong :P
Quote from: space otter on May 24, 2015, 07:30:43 PM
With that said, we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:
1. Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement.
2. Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation.
3. Being arrested either improperly or for other charges like disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance.
THIS is what is causing all the trouble. The constitutions says we can have guns. The laws for the most part say we can open carry guns with or without permit. We can get concealed carry permits. We can get permits to carry in a vehicle...
Its all LEGAL
Yet the Cops will hassle you, seize your gun and or license and arrest you. No wonder its a war....
QuoteWhile this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to.
That make it clear just WHO the enemy is. Law enforcement violating the law, your rights and the Constitution
I suddenly feel the urge to do some shopping... >:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sUdijlomfw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sUdijlomfw
::)
(https://scontent-6.22773.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1966933_436177833182067_1338422224_n.jpg?oh=02ba60235fe74164bde30a543480dd4c&oe=55C34FE3)
the biker other side
we're still in 3D so there is still another side..
Thousands of bikers gather in Washington to honor vets
(http://img.s-msn.com/tenant/amp/entityid/BBkcwqQ.img?h=486&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f)
© REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst People watch from the back of the Lincoln Memorial as riders take part in the Rolling Thunder First Amendment Demonstration motorcycle run on Memorial Day by crossing the Memorial Bridge leading from Arlington...
One week after a gathering of biker gangs in Texas that resulted in nine deaths and 170 arrests, thousands of motorcycle riders roared into the nation's capital Sunday to honor military veterans, prisoners of war and soldiers missing in action.
Rolling Thunder, an annual event that has been bringing motorcyclists and spectators to the National Mall in downtown Washington since 1988, started the "Ride for Freedom" at the Pentagon in Virginia, crossed the Potomac River over the Memorial Bridge and circled the Mall.
Organizers estimated that more than a million bikers and spectators attended, making it the largest one-day motorcycle gathering in the world, Rolling Thunder spokeswoman Nancy Regg said.
There were no reported criminal incidents at the event, Regg said.
"They're not here to party and get drunk," she said of Rolling Thunder, named after a 1965 bombing campaign against North Vietnam. "No fights. No attitudes."
Crowds cheered and waved as bikers throttled their engines and waved back. Many bikers rode with U.S. or Prisoner of War flags. A few rode with Confederate flags.
Bikers and veterans could be found scattered throughout the National Mall. Many gathered at the Vietnam and Korean War memorials. Some relaxed in the shade and drank beer.
A stage below the Lincoln Memorial hosted speakers and musicians, including former Wisconsin Governor Tommy Thompson, singer Nancy Sinatra and actor Robert Patrick.
"I thank you for your service and I thank you for my freedom," Patrick told the crowd. "Each and everyone of you are the real deal."
Throughout the day, at the edge of the stage, a scrawny, bearded man in tattered fatigues sat locked in a bamboo cage holding a sign reading "Never Forget."
Sunday's ride was part of a weekend of events that included a "blessing of the bikes" outside the National Cathedral and a day-long barbecue hosted by motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson.
There were several other biker events across the country planned for the Memorial Day weekend. Rallies were held in New Mexico, Mississippi, Missouri and South Carolina with heightened security, according to media reports.
Last Sunday, 170 people were arrested in connection with the shootout among rival bikers that left nine dead and 18 wounded and turned a Waco, Texas restaurant into a blood-soaked crime scene. (Reporting by John Clarke in Washington, D.C.; Editing by Mary Wisniewski and Eric Walsh)
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/thousands-of-bikers-gather-in-washington-to-honor-vets/ar-BBkcA4u
(http://img.s-msn.com/tenant/amp/entityid/BBkcocs.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f)
© REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst
U.S. Air Force veteran James Cloyes of Columbus, Ohio, salutes riders taking part in the Rolling Thunder First Amendment Demonstration motorcycle run on Memorial Day by crossing the Memorial Bridge
(http://img.s-msn.com/tenant/amp/entityid/BBkcwqX.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f)
© REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst
Riders take part in the Rolling Thunder First Amendment Demonstration motorcycle run on Memorial Day by crossing the Memorial Bridge leading from Arlington Cemetery into Washington May 24, 2015.
(http://img.s-msn.com/tenant/amp/entityid/BBkcwr4.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f)
Motorcyclists riders make a crayon rubbing of a name on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall on Memorial Day weekend in Washington May 24, 2015.
© REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst
I dare you to go near this monument without bursting into tears..
(http://img.s-msn.com/tenant/amp/entityid/BBkcwr8.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f)
© REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst
Riders take part in the Rolling Thunder First Amendment Demonstration motorcycle run on Memorial Day by crossing the Memorial Bridge leading from Arlington Cemetery into Washington May 24, 2015.