Roswell's Unanswered UFO Questions.
Another Roswell Article....
There is a link on the webpage that you can click on to listen to the interview it refers to.
LISTEN: ROSWELL'S UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3146908/images/n-ROSWELLALIEN-large570.jpg)
Something crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, 68 years ago. The first military authorized press release stated, "RAAF (Roswell Army Air Field) Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch In Roswell Region." That's right, the military was the first to indicate it was a flying saucer.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/676970/thumbs/o-ROSWELLHEADLINE-570.jpg?9)
Then, they quickly said that was a mistake. It was just a weather balloon. But UFO researchers were never satisfied with that answer, even decades later, and the controversy only grew.
The military later revealed that this wasn't a simple weather balloon, but an aircraft used for clandestine purposes -- part of the Army's top secret "Project Mogul"-- to monitor atomic weapon testing in the old Soviet Union. The military also claimed that crash test dummies may have been mistaken for ETs. But that explanation only stirred the controversy.
The central figure surrounding the events of the 1947 Roswell UFO issue was Maj. Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell Army Air Field. He was assigned the initial task of going out to the debris field to collect some of the material, described as shiny wreckage, including pieces of rubber, super-resistant tinfoil, wooden sticks and metallic-looking I-beams.
Here's an excerpt from a 35-year-old interview conducted by this writer with Marcel, when he finally felt comfortable talking about the Roswell case more than 30 years after it happened:
QuoteWe went out to the scene of where the crash was and started picking up the debris. It's almost indescribable. It's not the kind of material I'd ever seen in my life, nor have I seen it since. There were various types of materials which I couldn't identify. There were little members that looked like they were made of wood, but it wasn't wood and it had some kind of writing or hieroglyphics that I couldn't decipher and nobody else could. It was flexible, but you couldn't break it and you couldn't burn it.
Also, I found a piece of metal which was about the thickness of the foil in a pack of cigarettes. But the amazing part about it was you could put it on the ground, hit it with a sledge hammer and you couldn't even put a dent in it. That astounded me and I knew it was nothing from here. I was convinced it was not from anywhere on Earth and I'm still convinced of that.
I had brought a counterintelligence man with me in a staff car plus a pickup truck. We got everything we could into that and I sent the agent back to the base. Then I filled up my car with stuff. By the time I got back home, my wife said, 'What happened to you? There's been a bunch of news reporters out here, wanting a picture of you.' And I said, 'For what?' And there had been a public relations officer with them. He said, 'From what happened, your husband will be very popular by tomorrow morning.' So that's how it all started.
What amazed me most of all was the weightlessness of all this material -- it weighed nothing. I found one piece of metal -- supposedly metal -- which was about a foot wide and about two-and-a-half feet long. When I got back to the base, we [Marcel and several enlisted men] brought it all into a briefing room and set up a whole lot of tables there. One of the men said, 'Let me see if I can put some of those parts together, to see what the thing might have looked like.' He came back later and said [he tried but couldn't do it].
I consulted my CO [commanding officer], who said, 'You better fly the thing to Wright-Patterson Air Field [Ohio]. So, we loaded up the whole thing -- which was not a whole lot of material -- onto a B-29. We had only picked up one small fraction of what was out there. It was scattered over such an area about three-quarters of a mile long and several hundred feet wide. We'd been there all day, picking up the fragments.
I asked my CO if it was a better idea to stop at Carswell [Air Force Base] at Fort Worth and consult General Ramey and he said, 'Yes, you better do that.' When I got to Fort Worth, I talked it over with the general, and he told me, 'Don't open your mouth to the press. Put some stuff on the floor and let them take a picture of it.' But I was careful not to put out anything with detail on it. So they took pictures, and one picture appeared in the papers. (See image below)
Gen. Ramey told news reporters this was nothing but a crashed weather balloon, but I do know this: later on, Ramey wanted to cover his statement up, because he didn't know, himself, what it was. I went back to Roswell to resume my duties, but what they did at Carswell was to make a mock display with a battered weather balloon and they let the press take pictures of that. The whole thing was a cover-up to begin with and that was the last I heard of it.
I know it was not a weather balloon and I'd swear it on the biggest bible. It wasn't a missile or any part of an aircraft that we know of.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3146966/thumbs/o-JESSEMARCELDEBRIS-570.jpg?7)
To mark the crash anniversary, Michael Donovan of OuterPlaces.com joined us on the HuffPost Weird News Podcast to discuss Roswell's unanswered questions.
Two years ago, Donovan was standing in the Roswell crash debris field along with Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr., a highly decorated military flight surgeon.
"It was a moving experience because we're out on the site and this large thunderstorm was moving toward us -- you could see lightning flashing -- and he's standing there with his Iraq war veteran hat on and said, 'This is amazing. Sixty-six years ago, my father was standing on this very site,'" said Donovan.
"His father had loaded debris into his car, drove back to Roswell, stopping at his house, and showed his wife and son, Jesse Jr., the material after spreading it out on the kitchen floor," said Donovan. "Here's a guy -- a doctor, a flight surgeon -- why would he make up an experience he had in the middle of the night when he was 11 years old? So, when we were standing there at the crash site, I asked him, 'When they loaded that plane up and flew it to Fort Worth, what happened to it?' And he said, 'You know what? I don't know.' But he said the base commander's secretary, a few years ago before she retired, showed somebody a box of stretchy stuff that, if you crushed it, it would pop open. Jesse Jr. said to me, 'I think that stuff must still be somewhere around, in the military's possession.'"
Donovan says his belief in UFOs and a possible cover-up surrounding the Roswell UFO incident never gets in the way of his work -- which includes co-designing the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library.
"No, not at all. It goes back to the idea of being on a quest, being a problem-solver, and that's what designers do. We solve problems. In the reading of science fiction, you begin on a path to discovery. That's what we do every day and it's really that kind of interest -- learning new things -- that put me on the path that I'm now on, relative to OuterPlaces.com.
"In my own mind, I keep trying to create some kind of balance between what I think is a certain appropriate level of secrecy. We're adults in this country, by and large, and I think the government owes us as much information and let us make up our own minds."
Here are some unanswered questions that continue to surround the 1947 Roswell UFO crash incident:
1) What exactly crashed there in 1947? Was it a weather balloon, high altitude spy device, extraterrestrial craft?
2) Did the military switch materials that Maj. Marcel brought back from the debris field and, instead, allow the press to take pictures of an actual battered weather balloon?
3) If the crash site debris wasn't really a weather balloon, where did the real stuff end up?
4) Why would the military decide to even issue a press release about a captured flying saucer?
5) Related to the above question, why would the military suddenly change the story from flying saucer to weather balloon?
6) Why did the military hire a local Roswell mortician to make child-sized caskets following the UFO debris retrieval?
7) Why did Jesse Marcel Sr. wait more than 30 years before finally revealing his part in the Roswell UFO events?
8) If true, why would the U.S. government want to cover up such a monumental event as the crash of an alien ship?
This weekend's 20th Roswell UFO festival takes off full blast today with speakers giving their presentations at different locations simultaneously. If lectures don't fit your fancy, there's always the alien pet and alien costume contests and a UFO festival light parade to check out.
It's fair to say that something happened outside Roswell in 1947 that literally put the town on the map. The debris is long gone, but the reverberations have never stopped.
Whatever it was, after almost 70 years, it still depends on whom you ask or what you read, and whether you believe them.
A 1997 CNN-Time poll showed that 80 percent of Americans think the government is hiding information about the existence of alien life forms, and nearly two-thirds of the poll respondents believed that a UFO crashed outside Roswell in 1947.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/02/roswell-ufo-crash-unanswered_n_7716828.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
Visiting Roswell is on my bucket list. I think it would be fun to see, whether the reported events are true or not.
Shasta
May I point out the Maj. Marcel was the intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group, the only Atomic bomb wing in existence at the time, a position that would not be occupied by a Forest Gump type or below average intellect...
as to why would they change the story? Ever heard of Orson Welles and his 1939 "War of the Worlds" broadcast that damn near caused utter chaos and pandemonium?
seeker
Until you mentioned about MaJ Marcel being a IQ officer for the 509th Bomb group and it being Atomic related...I had not known that fact. The Roswell Wikipedia article does refer to the 509 bomb group.
I often find it hard to recall the more likely Roswell facts with there having been so many versions on it and without the right info in front of me to relate to, I can only try to recall some things that are in my memory.
The Article suggests it was the Military who reported the Roswell incident as being a crashed UFO. They later then changed their story.
It was not long after the end of WW2...
Did they have issues with or Were they at the time thinking about hoaxing the Russians with a story that they may have obtained advanced technology for those who may suggest that is why they said it was a UFO..
If they did have such issues with them at that time.. then Maybe I would consider them trying to kid the public and Russia about such a story.
But at that time I think id be surprised if that was the case.
I would have thought that maybe the USA and Russia may have had closer relations just after 1945...being on the same side in defeating Germany during WW2.
And for them later to change their story...Maybe that would help deal with the public...but why tell them that it had been a UFO in the first place. certainly if it was real....I would think they would cover it up and not mention a UFO at all.
If they released the story as some form of Hoax..
to both Russia and the public.. then changed the story... it seemed to calm things down with the public for some time. but did it leave that wonder with the Russians ?
At the same time if it was a crashed Saucer , As I believe it was discovered by a land owner / Farmer... who was said to take 3 days before reporting it... Would they have been able to shut him up from telling the story ? without doing certain things.
Then another story suggest there was more than one crashed Saucer...
I can see that it would have been in the interest of the Powers that be to cover up the story..be it either a secret project or on what would be a much more important issue if it was a real crashed UFO, to avoid mass panic.
I see even the Wikipedia article on Roswell now initially even refers the incident as a Surveillance balloon or later ...After an initial spike of interest, the military reported that the crash was merely of a conventional weather balloon.
QuoteIn mid 1947, a military Air Force surveillance balloon crashed at a ranch near Roswell, New Mexico prompting claims alleging the crash was of an extraterrestrial spaceship.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident
QuoteMay I point out the Maj. Marcel was the intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group, the only Atomic bomb wing in existence at the time, a position that would not be occupied by a Forest Gump type or below average intellect...
Hope you get to visit Shasta and can tell us of your journey and experience.
I also would like to one day visit it..as long as you can get to certain areas and are not restricted.
I wonder if other members have been to visit it ?
QuoteVisiting Roswell is on my bucket list. I think it would be fun to see, whether the reported events are true or not.
Shasta
Quote from: astr0144 on July 04, 2015, 11:44:42 PM
Roswell's Unanswered UFO Questions.
The military also claimed that crash test dummies may have been mistaken for ETs. But that explanation only stirred the controversy.
Crash test dummy program was not created until over a decade after the Roswell event.
Quote
The central figure surrounding the events of the 1947 Roswell UFO issue was Maj. Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell Army Air Field. He was assigned the initial task of going out to the debris field to collect some of the material, described as shiny wreckage, including pieces of rubber, super-resistant tinfoil, wooden sticks and metallic-looking I-beams.
Mac Brazel also showed his neighbors a (what we now know as plastic) beam fragment that appeared as balsa wood and demonstrated how "it could not be whittled or burnt".
His neighbor "allowed as how that was pretty dam odd Mac!"
Quote
Here are some unanswered questions that continue to surround the 1947 Roswell UFO crash incident:
1) What exactly crashed there in 1947? Was it a weather balloon, high altitude spy device, extraterrestrial craft?
With thousands of flying disc reports for 1/2 the year that year displaying "super technology beyond our means" (as mentioned in one of the mini EOTS being passed around by the brass) it appears quite likely that what all the witnesses (civilan, military, private and commercial pilots, police) claimed, is indeed what crashed.
Quote
2) Did the military switch materials that Maj. Marcel brought back from the debris field and, instead, allow the press to take pictures of an actual battered weather balloon?
Corroboration of this comes from testimony by a young lieutenant at the time who was ordered to crash a weather balloon and burn part of the rubber balloon, pack it up and deliver it to Ramey's office.
Quote
3) If the crash site debris wasn't really a weather balloon, where did the real stuff end up?
In that big warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. :P
Probably at Wright-Pat until they got the S-4 facility arranged.
Quote
4) Why would the military decide to even issue a press release about a captured flying saucer?
Good question. That type of behavior is certainly not in their nature now is it?
It turns out the reason for the press release was to divert attention from the crash site and instead focus attention on the debris field, rumors of which were already circulating among civilians. One primary goal was to keep Russian spies away from the crash site.
Quote
5) Related to the above question, why would the military suddenly change the story from flying saucer to weather balloon?
Once the crash site had been recovered and the debris field cleaned, it was time to torpedo the entire story.
Coincidentally, the number of sightings peaked right after this event -
(http://www.ufosnw.com/history_of_ufo/1947sightdt.jpg)
Were they frantically hunting for one of their missing ships perhaps?
The locations and times of these mass sightings after the crash are quite interesting as well.
I imagine the military were quite nervous during this time.
Quote
6) Why did the military hire a local Roswell mortician to make child-sized caskets following the UFO debris retrieval?
Cause body bags don't keep dry ice from melting very well, and it sticks to your tongue if applied directly. :P
Quote
7) Why did Jesse Marcel Sr. wait more than 30 years before finally revealing his part in the Roswell UFO events?
Because of his security clearance, his devotion to country, and believing his boss when Gen. Ramey told him in the map room (during the switch of debris) to say nothing to the press, and that when this all came out in the future, he would be made a hero.
It probably ate away at him all those years, being the fall guy for that weather balloon excuse.
And now all these years later everyone involved in the event were either dead or soon to be, and still no "when all this comes out" word from the Government clearing his name and reputation, and no sign that it was ever going to happen anytime soon.
Quote
8) If true, why would the U.S. government want to cover up such a monumental event as the crash of an alien ship?
The military potential of this technology is beyond belief.
Quote
Whatever it was, after almost 70 years, it still depends on whom you ask or what you read, and whether you believe them.
I tend to go with the people who were actually there.
By and large, most of these people had to be pried from the woodwork and cajoled into telling their stories, they did not voluntarily come forward.
All were still hesitant about breaking their security oaths and the specific warnings they were given about this event.
Astro -
The 509th was the ONLY atomic air wing at that time. And Marcel was the intelligence officer assigned to it. So... like everyone else assigned there, he was the cream of the crop, the best of the best.
Walter Haut and Col. Blanchard were both assigned to the 509th together during WWII as bomber pilots over Germany and became close friends.
Hence the reason Blanchard allowed him to see the bodies and craft.
Glad that you commented on the thread A51...
I was tempted to write a few answers or suggestions to those questions but would not have done it the same justice as you have with the quality of your answers and with your much more indepth knowledge and memory of the facts on the incidents story .
It seems such a lot to take in with the story and all the variations...& trying to recall what is more likely the more likely true facts.
As one sees the various articles of the story more times, parts start to sink in a bit more each time..hopefully !
I note your comments on Marcel..
If it was a for Real crashed Alien Saucer...
Why need the Military mention anything at all that it was a UFO if they wanted to keep it so secret.
If the Land owner did speak out... maybe they could have persuaded him to keep quiet or if he had informed others..that they would invent some story and lead it to being a Balloon or some other story..
if some of the locals were more aware before the Military arrived... then that would have been much more difficult to try to cover up. I am not really sure whether the land owner had informed the locals before informing the military..
As the story suggest it was 3 days after the crash..
and I am not sure if other locals claimed to have also witnessed it in one way or another and on what scale ... ie as it passed over before , or the noise made as it crashed. Although It seemed in quite a remote area away from main population of Roswell town. So it may not have been heard by many people.
if it had been kept quite by the landowner...and he only told one or two others before informing the military... Then I would have thought that they could have persuaded who ever to keep quiet. and NOT inform anyone..
If Others were aware.. I wonder if anyone had a camera and took any photos that we have not as yet seen !
Quote4) Why would the military decide to even issue a press release about a captured flying saucer?
Quote
Good question. That type of behavior is certainly not in their nature now is it?
It turns out the reason for the press release was to divert attention from the crash site and instead focus attention on the debris field, rumors of which were already circulating among civilians. One primary goal was to keep Russian spies away from the crash site.
Again...somethings I just assumed with the Roswell story....
I either had not realised or noted on some past things that I have read or seen in video.
and some of what some may say were major facts.Sometimes I miss what may be seen as most well known or obvious.
I did not know the Crash test dummy program was not created until over a decade after the Roswell event.
Prior to this, they had been said it was the Surveillance or a weather Balloon ...
So had that lasted 10 yrs...then they came out with the Crashed Dummy suggestion. or was that said much later ..and they said that was the case back in 1947...
and there fore very few people would be unlikely to check those facts..
QuoteRoswell's Unanswered UFO Questions.
The military also claimed that crash test dummies may have been mistaken for ETs. But that explanation only stirred the controversy.
QuoteCrash test dummy program was not created until over a decade after the Roswell event.
I had some how not noted or took in or realised the fact that it was 30 years before Jesse Marcel Sr told his story !
I had assumed that he had been a major
KNOWN part of the early investigation in the early stages back in 1947.
or was it he had said something early on but only came forward again 30 yrs later with some other important facts..
Quote7) Why did Jesse Marcel Sr. wait more than 30 years before finally revealing his part in the Roswell UFO events?
I just was watching the end of a Program on Roswell.. and one point made at the end was that if it had been a UFO...with so many involved..it could not have been kept fully secret for so long without some more clear evidence being released.
Another point was the program said that the actual crash site could not be determined...
so if it had really occurred..and had crashed somewhere more remote... Could they have kept it more secret.
There is still some things that are tricky to comprehend.
Here's a rundown on the details of Walter Haut's official affidavit to be released only after his death.
The only clue I can recall him giving us early on (as to why he withheld these stunning facts), was an interview he gave in which he states "If you were a serviceman of my vintage, you learned to keep your mouth shut and do as told, especially if your monthly pension depends on it."
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.msg2604#msg2604 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=329.msg2604#msg2604)
Quote from: astr0144 on July 05, 2015, 05:56:19 PM
Again...somethings I just assumed with the Roswell story....
I either had not realised or noted on some past things that I have read or seen in video.
and some of what some may say were major facts.Sometimes I miss what may be seen as most well known or obvious.
I did not know the Crash test dummy program was not created until over a decade after the Roswell event.
Prior to this, they had been said it was the Surveillance or a weather Balloon ...
So had that lasted 10 yrs...then they came out with the Crashed Dummy suggestion. or was that said much later ..and they said that was the case back in 1947...
Crash test dummies were included in the Air Force's 3rd try at an official excuse in the 90's.
and there fore very few people would be unlikely to check those facts..
I had some how not noted or took in or realised the fact that it was 30 years before Jesse Marcel Sr told his story !
I had assumed that he had been a major KNOWN part of the early investigation in the early stages back in 1947.
or was it he had said something early on but only came forward again 30 yrs later with some other important facts..
No in 1947 he did as told and said nothing more about it until 30 years later. Upon seeing his story now appear front page in the supermarket tabloids, Pappy Henderson decided it was time to tell his wife this story was true and he was the pilot who had flown the bodies and wreckage to Wright field.
I just was watching the end of a Program on Roswell.. and one point made at the end was that if it had been a UFO...with so many involved..it could not have been kept fully secret for so long without some more clear evidence being released.
Another point was the program said that the actual crash site could not be determined...
so if it had really occurred..and had crashed somewhere more remote... Could they have kept it more secret.
There is still some things that are tricky to comprehend.
I can't be bothered to compose a case for the 'psy-op' explantion which I support; although, James Carrion is currently working on his expose of Roswell; which will hopefully be completed within the next year. I excitedly anticipate his work, which I expect to shed some illumination on many of these unaswered questions, astro.
Questions which are avoided or ill-explained by the pro-ET supporters.
I'll be sure to present the piece at the first available chance.
Thanks for your comments Sinny.
I hope that you manage to obtain and post the report and that it may answer certain questions..
There is so many possibilities and angles on this topic, I think it will be something very hard to prove.
Maybe since those recent awaited images appeared and have been ridiculed..many are jumping to write reports once again to doubt it further.
Some also are trying this with the Bob Lazar story.
There is no doubt there is much validity that could suggest Roswell was a Major Hoax...and no real proof that I am aware has as yet come forward.
But there is still other UFO related topic like with Bob Lazar story that for me still could have connection to keep possibilities of there being some truths.
A51s work , has certainly made me aware of things that I never new about both with Roswell and Bob Lazar..along with his videos.
That to me still suggests truth in Bob Lazars story.
But whether it and Roswell is ET related is still questionable.
I just did a quick check to see when the Cold War started.. with the USA and Russia at conflict...and to my surprise it was straight after WW2.. somewhere between 1945 & 1947...
I wonder if some of the fall out was when the USA took many of the German Scientists..and the Russians new that they could have be creating UFOs and would give that technology to the USA.
So I could understand that yes the USA may have come up with the Roswell story back then to make Russia believe that they had advanced technology.
even though later they changed the story.. probably to calm down the public...
But with all the other evidence that suggested that there had been so much what seemed like UFO incidents at that time... I am amazed it they were all Manmade craft. and many suggested to be doing things beyond human technology expectation.
It is surprising if an ET craft was involved that they have managed to keep certain things not being released to prove it.
We become aware of numerous various people involved in the story we get to read about..Some have made claims to witnessing ETs..Nurse for eg..some who soon after became deceased..
It may also have been they could have had two things going on....One small group who took the Craft and ETs away to a secret location..
and then do a false set up.. where it seemed that they had brought in bodies to a hospital ordered caskets etc and took parts of a what seemed like a craft and seen to have taken it away etc ..
From a Program that I watched earlier.. it said that no exact true location/s was given in the surrounding area where the Saucer / Saucers was said to have crashed..
Yet if the Land owner found them... one would think he has said exactly where...
but the program suggested several possible locations.. and the area seemed quite remote..when it showed an aerial view of some of the area.
its hard to know how these people think, who would have been involved in dealing with a real crashed UFO or creating an incident if it was a hoax..and what extremes that they may go to..
QuoteI excitedly anticipate his work, which I expect to shed some illumination on many of these unaswered questions, astro.
Questions which are avoided or ill-explained by the pro-ET supporters.
I'll be sure to present the piece at the first available chance.
One of my dad's coworkers was at Trinity in 1945. I really wonder about one thing following another. To my mind, the atomic testing would likely have drawn the interest of more than just our fellow terrestrials. Of course, I may have formed that impression from years of watching Star Trek.
Shasta
That is maybe a major point that some people forget or does not get strongly stated enough...and could certainly be a reason why we may have had such a lot of UFO activity back at that time.
Maybe that is the main reason.
If so I wonder if the USA Govt had already obtained ET UFOs prior to Roswell ?
Or if not when they created, tested and exploded the Nukes... they just got a series unexpected ET UFO visitors arriving to see what all the Noise was about !
Another thought if it was designed as a hoax to make out that the USA had obtained ET advanced technology..
I don't suppose they had suggested that they had obtained a fully functional Saucer Craft... They were suggesting they had a crashed craft...
Was it suggested broken or non working I wonder...
If so..Then I don't suppose they could make out that they had one in fully working order and that they could use it as an immediate threat / weapon if they wanted to...
So they may have waited some years... and then used the Bob Lazar story to then suggest that now we have fully functional operation craft that we can use..
Bob may have been genuinely set up and led to believe what he described as real.
The US then claim that they have the craft and can operate them.
An other alternative maybe that they really did obtain a crashed craft at Roswell...maybe took 30 to 40 yrs to work them out and create or make one fully functional.. and maybe what Bob describes was / is genuine truth.
Quote from: Shasta56 on July 06, 2015, 02:40:39 PM
One of my dad's coworkers was at Trinity in 1945. I really wonder about one thing following another. To my mind, the atomic testing would likely have drawn the interest of more than just our fellow terrestrials. Of course, I may have formed that impression from years of watching Star Trek.
Shasta
A51,
Can you explain how they now suggest it was plastic.
After such a long time...!
Your comments suggests it looked like Balsa wood..
but I thought that the beams or some of the other similar things looked metallic ... The article refers to metallic looking beams.
I assume these metal looking samples being the beams that may have had some Writing or HIEROGLYPHICS on ..
I assume that the were not of the so described memory metal samples..?
I do not recall coming across that suggestion before.
Must have missed it.
Was there other issues that you know about with any of the other materials that they said were collected ?
I can see here that it does refer also to Balsa beams.
I need to read it...seems a very detailed website on Roswell.
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/debris1_beams.html
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/index.html
A51
QuoteMac Brazel also showed his neighbors a (what we now know as plastic) beam fragment that appeared as balsa wood and demonstrated how "it could not be whittled or burnt".
His neighbor "allowed as how that was pretty dam odd Mac!"
QuoteJesse Marcel, the intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell Army Air Field. He was assigned the initial task of going out to the debris field to collect some of the material, described as shiny wreckage, including pieces of rubber, super-resistant tinfoil, wooden sticks and metallic-looking I-beams.
astro -
Loretta Proctor:
"The piece he brought looked like a kind of tan, light-brown plastic...it was very lightweight, like balsa wood. It wasn't a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe just larger than a pencil." "We cut on it with a knife and would hold a match on it, and it wouldn't burn. We knew it wasn't wood. It was smooth like plastic, it didn't have real sharp corners, kind of like a dowel stick. Kind of dark tan. It didn't have any grain...just smooth."
Quote from: A51Watcher on July 06, 2015, 06:39:56 PM
Loretta Proctor:
"The piece he brought looked like a kind of tan, light-brown plastic...it was very lightweight, like balsa wood. It wasn't a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe just larger than a pencil." "We cut on it with a knife and would hold a match on it, and it wouldn't burn. We knew it wasn't wood. It was smooth like plastic, it didn't have real sharp corners, kind of like a dowel stick. Kind of dark tan. It didn't have any grain...just smooth."
Does the underlined text mean that they could cut it?
1. WOOD-LIKE TAN STICKS
Loretta Proctor: Neighbor of rancher Mack Brazel; hard, uncuttable, unburnable balsa woodlike dowel.
"Nowadays we would call it plastic, but back then we didn't have any idea."
eta:
According to Loretta, it was a small pencil shaped stick and, "I would say it was kind of brownish tan but you know that's been quite a long time. It looked like plastic, of course there wasn't plastic then but was kind of what it looked like" (Randle and Schmitt , UFO 148).
This "dowel stick" as she referred to it was very difficult to damage. According to Randle and Schmitt, Loretta describes Mac and her husband trying to mark it: "Floyd tried to whittle on it with his knife but couldn't make a mark. Brazel held a match up to it to show that not only wouldn't it burn, it wouldn't even blacken" (Randle and Schmitt , Truth 32).
Thanks, A51Watcher, that's the quote I remembered, I got confused with your previous quote. :)
It sounds like a hard ceramic to me. Difficult to burn or cut.
Quote from: Pimander on July 07, 2015, 01:09:41 AM
It sounds like a hard ceramic to me. Difficult to burn or cut.
I was the facilities and maintenance manager at a plastics recycling company for several years; I had two Vortec shredders that would annihilate 2" rebar like it was toothpicks, yet there are several plastic compounds that are nearly impossible to granulate even in the Vortec, ripping teeth out of the drum and locking up the machine; these same compounds have a very high melting point and tensile strength...
these materials were sent to us by several companies that were aerospace fabricators and the finished product returned to them under closed contract; I can see the piece Mac Braswell had as being plastic, but also would bet that it was not a material being produced in 1947 in the public domain...
seeker
You could be right. I said ceramic as most plastics bend and ceramics mostly don't. If only Brazel kept a sample to show us.
Quote from: Pimander on July 07, 2015, 01:09:41 AM
It sounds like a hard ceramic to me. Difficult to burn or cut.
Once upon a tyme....
NASA wanted to stick a man into a tin can and launch him on a rocket. The man said... I will do it but I want a WINDOW
So NASA found some plastic that was tough enough to make a window out of. There was a photo back in the day of a white Kitten sitting on a thin piece of this plastic with a raging Bunsen burner underneath... The Kitten did no feel a thing...
It was said that if you made a coffee cup of this plastic and put a hot coffee into a deep freezer, the coffee would till be hot 100 years later.
Now where did this amazing plastic suddenly appear from?
I cannot find the Kitten photo right now but there is another plastic that does the same thing. only it is light and flexible and has been nick named "solid smoke"
Same test as Kitteh but using a flower... seems too many people were worried Kitteh would get roasted :P
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Aerogelflower_filtered.jpg)
The material would not happen to be Aerogel would it?
(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag316/SerpUkhovian/Aerogel_zpsqz4uhhvd.jpg)
A product from our friend over at United Nuclear, or was it a product from Germany during WWII?
Quote from: SerpUkhovian on July 08, 2015, 10:36:00 AM
The material would not happen to be Aerogel would it?
Seeing that the image Zorgon posted is called Aerogelflower_filtered.jpg, I suppose it was. :)
QuoteA product from our friend over at United Nuclear, or was it a product from Germany during WWII?
According to the Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel)from where that image came, it's older.
On the 68th anniversary of the reported crash of an alien flying saucer in Roswell, New Mexico, nuclear physicist and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman tells Newsmax that he has no doubt that it really happened.
"There's no question that the real truth is that the United States Army Air Force recovered a crashed flying saucer, recovered alien bodies and has covered them up very successfully since that time," Friedman told Ed Berliner on "MidPoint" on Newsmax TV on Wednesday.
"It's one of the biggest stories of the millennium and it's not surprising. Many other important stories have been covered up for very long times [when there is] national security involved," he explained.
Story continues below video.
Watch Newsmax TV on DIRECTV Ch. 349, DISH Ch. 223 and Verizon FiOS Ch. 115. Get Newsmax TV on your cable system – Click Here Now
"We don't want anybody else to learn what we learned from examination of the wreckage and the bodies. That gives us a top dog slot," he said. "Who knows how many others have crashed."
Friedman said that even though none of the evidence has been released, he believes that the government still has the artifacts.
"They'd be utterly ridiculous to destroy the bodies or the wreckage because you get new analytical testing capabilities as time goes on," he explained.
Friedman is the author of "Flying Saucers and Science: A Scientist Investigates the Mysteries of UFO's."
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/Stanton-Friedman-UFO-Roswell-crash/2015/07/08/id/654115/
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=8460.msg116173#msg116173
I would like to add a few Unanswered UFO Questions about Roswell myself -
- Why did Ramey's Chief of Staff Colonel Thomas J. DuBose (who is pictured with Ramey in two of the weather balloon photos) sign a sworn affidavit in 1990 attesting to switching the balloon wreckage for the genuine material? "It was a cover story . . . to get the press off of Ramey's back."
- Contrary to Ramey announcing to reporters the weather balloon explanation along with his cancellation of debris being flown to Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio, why did the FBI refute the General's claims in a telex which was sent at 6:17 p.m. CST the same day of the press conference on July 8? "...But that telephonic conversation between their office and [Wright Field] had not borne out this belief. Disc and balloon being transported to Wright Field by special plane for examination."
- Why did a special photo team from Washington, D.C., under the command of Col. Anton Hansen, arrive at Roswell to photograph the recovery and record the subsequent events? Against standard operating procedure, the 3rd Photo Lab at the Roswell base was never called in to photograph the crash site or the material.
- Why were two Secret Service agents by the names McCann and Devinnes dispatched from Washington to represent the president in Roswell during the incident?
- Why were there unknown doctors and nurses observed at the Roswell base hospital at the time of the incident as noted by nurse Rosemary McMannis?
- If the recovery was of nothing more unusual that a Mogul balloon, photographed in Ramey's office by the news media on July 8, why did the military, on July 9, tour the various news media in Roswell retrieving copies of Walter Haut's press release? If there was nothing to the story, why did the military search radio station KGFL, taking everything that related to the crash, including the documents that newsman Frank Joyce tried to hide?
- Why did the U.S. military, like a scene from a 1950's sci-fi movie, surround the Roswell Sheriff s Office just to retrieve a small box of debris that Brazel had left there days earlier?
- There was reportedly talk at the base during the recovery concerning "bodies" involved in the crash. Rumors circulated through the town of Roswell about one of the crew still alive. One day after the first press release, the Army and Navy, as reported by the Associated Press, moved to "Shut down the rumors." The Air Force now maintains that no such "talk" concerning bodies took place. Why?
- Secrecy oaths would not have been required for the recovery of a weather balloon, or any other conventional device, unless it was a highly classified subject. Why were the men involved taken into a conference room in groups of 10–12 and verbally sworn to protect the truth concerning what actually happened? Others at Roswell and Fort Worth were ordered not to discuss it, or ever bring it up again.
- Ed Reese, in charge of the now declassified Project Blue Book files at the National Archives, told us that he too was surprised that Roswell is not included in the Blue Book system with all other explained reports. Why is the most highly publicized UFO case of all time strangely absent?
- There are two, possibly three sites involved with the crash at Roswell. First is the debris field. Thirty miles to the southeast where the remains of the craft and crew were located is the second. A few miles to the northwest of the debris site was apparently a touchdown point of baked soil and fused sand which was first seen by Chaves County deputies and then by Lewis R. Rickett and Dr. Lincoln LaPaz. How is it possible that a balloon and array train could be responsible for sites such as these?
- Pieces of small wreckage Brazel's son Bill Jr. had managed to collect were confiscated by the military in 1949. Why was the military still monitoring the situation two years later? This was almost two years after Mogul had been declassified. Why were search teams still dispatched from the base at Roswell through the end of 1947, through 1948, and into 1949 to recover remaining debris at the sites specifically after heavy rainfalls as described by Major Charles McGee?
- If the Roswell device was nothing more than a weather balloon, why bring in LaPaz, a noted expert in the discovery and recovery of meteorites? LaPaz had worked on dozens of classified government projects, including the ultra-classified Manhattan Project. If it was nothing more unusual than a balloon, why would the Pentagon assign him to determine the speed and trajectory of the downed device two months after the crash?
- In 1952, Major Ellis Boldra, an engineer stationed at Roswell, discovered a one-foot-square section of debris locked in a safe in the engineering office. It displayed the same extraordinary characteristics described by 1947 witnesses including the memory capabilities. Why did Washington D.C. dispatch a special courier to retrieve the material immediately after news leaked out about its discovery in Roswell?
- At our request, retired Navy Seal officer Charles Mascovich submitted the names and documented series numbers of over two dozen military personnel stationed at Roswell in July 1947 to both the Defense Department and the Veteran's Administration for further confirmation of military service. The list included Charles E. Hanshaw, James W. Hundley, William J. Cardell, Lee J. Mulliner, Melvin E. Brown, Ernest O. Powell, Clyde M. Robertson, Cecil T. Yoakum, Harold T. Hastings, Edward M. Sager, and Donald E. Carroll. Why does neither the Defense Department nor the Veteran's Administration have records of any of these men when we can document that each served at the Roswell Army Air Field?
- If there was nothing to the Roswell case other than a misidentification of a weather balloon, why have witnesses, on their deathbeds, denied that? Melvin E. Brown spent the last four days of his life telling his family that it wasn't a weather balloon. Why was the dying archaeologist/geologist at St. Petersburg Hospital in Florida telling the nurses she had seen the bodies and then warning them about government reprisal? Roswell base Provost Marshal Edwin Easley, base Adjutant Patrick Saunders, and 393 Squadron pilot O.W. "Pappy" Henderson also gave deathbed testimony confirming the "flying saucer" crash and the recovery of bodies. And there are others more recent.
- The unusual qualities of the material described to date by two dozen known eyewitnesses are consistent in every detail. In appearance, tensile strength, apparent weightlessness, memory characteristics, uninterpretable symbology, fiber-optic and plastic-like, metallic composition, its physical make-up would be difficult to duplicate even by today's standards. Why do none of the first-hand witnesses describe common materials from a weather balloon? And more importantly, why were none of these individuals interviewed by the Air Force for their 1994 Roswell Report?
- In an unprecedented reaction by then Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, why did he refuse to respond to three separate letters of request for the release of the Roswell files from Congressman Steve Shiff of New Mexico in 1993? Why did Congressman Shiff also receive denials from the Air Force, the Pentagon, and the National Security Council for similar requests?
- And if Mogul was as highly classified as the Air Force maintains, which evidently led to the misidentification in Roswell, how is it that they invited the press to photograph this missing, top-secret balloon in Ramey's office and promote the publication of seven different pictures in practically every major newspaper throughout the country? And why would they blow the entire project (with pictures) in the Alamogordo News of July 10, 1947?
- Concerning the 1997 Air Force book titled Roswell Report—Case Closed that proposed the "crash dummy" explanation, given that the very earliest such tests took place six years after the 1947 incident, why didn't the Air Force consider that none of the first-hand witnesses to the bodies remained in the service or were still in New Mexico at the time of such crash-dummy tests?
- Each description of the bodies by the witnesses from Roswell is consistent. Interestingly, they do not resemble what have been commonly described by witnesses in reported UFO occupant cases as well as the alleged abduction accounts. This would tend to rule out contamination from such sources. And why were none of these witnesses ever interviewed by the Air Force for any of their recent reports?
- Why would the United States military resort to gross civil-rights violations, i.e., physical intimidation and death threats to such civilians as
Frankie Rowe,
Tommy Thomson,
Frank Joyce,
Judd Roberts,
Walt Whitmore Sr.,
Pete and Ruben Anaya,
John McBoyle, and
George Wilcox?
And why were their threats extended to even the witness's children to insure their silence about the recovery of simply a weather balloon? Project Mogul was declassified within two days of the reported balloon explanation on July 10, 1947; still the threats continued for years after the incident.
- And finally, why do retired members of the military today in 1999, years after the Air Force Project Mogul and Crash Dummy Reports, still refuse to break their oaths of secrecy concerning the Roswell incident?
Above questions from ufoevidence.org
QuoteAt our request, retired Navy Seal officer Charles Mascovich submitted the names and documented series numbers of over two dozen military personnel stationed at Roswell in July 1947 to both the Defense Department and the Veteran's Administration for further confirmation of military service. The list included Charles E. Hanshaw, James W. Hundley, William J. Cardell, Lee J. Mulliner, Melvin E. Brown, Ernest O. Powell, Clyde M. Robertson, Cecil T. Yoakum, Harold T. Hastings, Edward M. Sager, and Donald E. Carroll. Why does neither the Defense Department nor the Veteran's Administration have records of any of these men when we can document that each served at the Roswell Army Air Field?
Special Operations? They were real special ops personnel serving under a fake name.