Nice.
Wonder material could harvest energy from thin air
Membrane technology
The latest discovery makes graphene attractive for possible uses in proton-conducting membranes which are at the core of modern fuel-cell technology.
Fuel cells work by using oxygen and hydrogen as a fuel, converting the chemical energy produced by its input directly into electricity. However, current membranes that separate the protons necessary for this process are relatively inefficient, allowing contamination in the fuel crossover.
Using graphene membranes could boost their efficiency and durability.
The team found the protons passed through the ultra-thin crystals with relative ease, especially at raised temperatures and with the use of a platinum-based catalyst coated on the membrane film.
Harvesting hydrogen
The most surprising aspect of the research, however, found the membranes could be used to extract hydrogen from the atmosphere. The scientists said such harvesting could be combined with fuel cells to create a mobile electric generator fueled simply by hydrogen present in air.
"When you know how it should work, it is a very simple setup. You put a hydrogen-containing gas on one side, apply small electric current and collect pure hydrogen on the other side. This hydrogen can then be burned in a fuel cell.
(http://graphenereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/perf1.jpg)
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/tech/innovation/tomorrow-transformed-graphene-battery/index.html
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/PEM_fuelcell.svg/2000px-PEM_fuelcell.svg.png
Wouldn't it be nice if they could grow the graphene directly on a platinum substrate? A one step graphene and catalyst membrane that will produce hydrogen? These types of membranes could be the future of energy generation.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/PEM_fuelcell.svg/2000px-PEM_fuelcell.svg.png)
Cosmo
Very interesting, Cosmo 8) keep us updated...
seeker
How about a car that extracts the hydrogen from the air with that graphene membrane and burns it in an internal combustion engine??? That would be cheaper than a fuel cell I think and we could make the industrial adjustments a little easier that way. Also, the product of internal combustion of hydrogen would be water, so, with all the cars they drive in California, they may be able to alleviate their water shortage by driving! I've lived in California and I know they would love that idea!!! Rivers of cars on the freeway producing water. That would be an unexpected, yet pleasing picture of the future! :D
So..they already make porous platinum electrodes...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775313008136
Cosmo
If your Suggestion may be a better solution to just the fuel cell concept.. shame that you are not able to benefit from your idea.
If I recall, they do have cars that run on Hydrogen, (Such as Bob Lazars)that you can fill up from vessels at fueling places or maybe one can purchase it for home storage in containers or cylinder tanks..but maybe at the moment its not a concept being used widely, but I am not sure if maybe it would be a better alternative to diesel or petrol cars / engines.
I think in theory it has good advantages.. but that there was also concern with the resulted exhaust gas. That they also said would be a concern to the environment if done on a major scale.
If this fuel cell or your suggestions result in the exhaust being just water... then that would seem an ideal solution.
The concept of the fuel cell, looks interesting...but somethings maybe a bit difficult to understand unless one understands some of the chemistry behind it in relations to say for eg.. is there a reason why a Platinum catalyst is used as a way to split the hydrogen into positive ions. and create negative charged elections .(Could other metals be used or is there a specific reason as to why its Platinum..) and also what / how the ions and elections / protons work in relation to the whole concept. The Membrane Polymer PEM only allows the positive ions to pass thru to the Cathode side of the Cell. The negative elections have to travel on an external wire to the cathode to create a electric current.
Then at the Cathode.. both the positive ions and neg elections combine with the Oxygen to form water.
It shows Hydrogen I assume being pumped thru one of the plates that go to the anode side of the Cell and the Oxidant flows thru a plate on the opposing side to the cathode
It shows the resultant (exhaust)of the Oxidant reaction in the cell (described as oxygen OR air) as being water.
Water is H20 and air is a compound of mainly nitrogen and oxygen.
QuoteAir is mainly composed of nitrogen, oxygen, and argon, which together constitute the major gases of the atmosphere. Water vapor accounts for roughly 0.25% of the atmosphere by mass.
QuoteHow about a car that extracts the hydrogen from the air with that graphene membrane and burns it in an internal combustion engine??? That would be cheaper than a fuel cell I think and we could make the industrial adjustments a little easier that way. Also, the product of internal combustion of hydrogen would be water,
Hi Astro,
Here is some tech that I think would transfer quite well to membrane construction.
Big range of behaviors for tiny graphene pores
Karnik reasoned that graphene would be a suitable material in which to create artificial ion channels: A sheet of graphene is an ultrathin lattice of carbon atoms that is one atom thick, so pores in graphene are defined at the atomic scale.
To create pores in graphene, the group used chemical vapor deposition, a process typically used to produce thin films. In graphene, the process naturally creates tiny defects. The researchers used the process to generate nanometer-sized pores in various sheets of graphene, which bore a resemblance to ultrathin Swiss cheese.
The researchers then isolated individual pores by placing each graphene sheet over a layer of silicon nitride that had been punctured by an ion beam, the diameter of which is slightly smaller than the spacing between graphene pores. The group reasoned that any ions flowing through the two-layer setup would have likely passed first through a single graphene pore, and then through the larger silicon nitride hole.
The group measured flows of five different salt ions through several graphene sheet setups by applying a voltage and measuring the current flowing through the pores. The current-voltage measurements varied widely from pore to pore, and from ion to ion, with some pores remaining stable, while others swung back and forth in conductance -- an indication that the pores were diverse in their preferences for allowing certain ions through.
"The picture that emerges is that each pore is different and that the pores are dynamic," Karnik says. "Each pore starts developing its own personality."
New frontier
Karnik and Jain then developed a model to interpret the measurements, and used it to translate the experiment's measurements into estimates of pore size. Based on the model, they found that the diameter of many of the pores was below 1 nanometer, which -- given the single-atom thickness of graphene -- makes them among the smallest pores through which scientists have studied ion flow.
With the model, the group calculated the effect of various factors on pore behavior, and found that the observed pore behavior was captured by three main characteristics: a pore's size, its electrical charge, and the position of that charge along a pore's length.
Knowing this, researchers may one day be able to tailor pores at the nanoscale to create ion-specific membranes for applications such as environmental sensing and trace metal mining.
"It's kind of a new frontier in membrane technologies, and in understanding transport through these really small pores in ultrathin materials," Karnik says.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151005132731.htm
So, use an ion beam to punch holes in your platinum substrate and then vapor deposition to layer on the graphene...and there's your hydrogen producing membrane. Hey Astro...how much is that idea worth? ;D
Or maybe use the porous platinum manufacturing used in the link in my previous post and create sheets of porous platinum(may have to machine them...determine mean void diameter in porous platinum and make sheets thin enough to allow hydrogen to pass) and then use vapor deposition to layer gaphene on that for a membrane.
Graphene...membrane technology, energy storage/super capacitors, solar tech...is there anything it can't do?
Oh yeah..superconductor when doped with lithium. 8)
A car made from graphene would be amazing!
And you can make it at home!
Cosmo
QuoteHey Astro...how much is that idea worth
Cosmo, with the way things seem to progress around free energy and
anything that will influence the grip of big oil, I daresay it might be the same price that James Allen paid... or Stan Meyers...
just food for thought
8)
seeker
Quote from: the seeker on October 06, 2015, 06:17:28 PM
Cosmo, with the way things seem to progress around free energy and anything that will influence the grip of big oil, I daresay it might be the same price that James Allen paid... or Stan Meyers...
just food for thought
8)
seeker
Looks like the cat is out of the bag.(and it's not Schrodinger's cat) There are all kinds of youtube videos on how to make graphene and even graphene super capacitors. You can also buy commercial graphene capacitors now.
And...more good news! We don't even need the very expensive platinum.
Could moly sulfide be the key to cheaper hydrogen production?
(http://img.gizmag.com/molysulfide-1.jpg?fit=crop&h=594&w=1060&s=72e42667b459912969e51d59350e67eb)
A moly sulfide nanocluster on a graphite surface form the electrode that allows it to form hydrogen through electrolysis (Image: Jakob Kibsgaard)
Chemical engineers have found a 30-year-old recipe that stands to make future hydrogen production cheaper and greener. The recipe has led researchers to a way to liberate hydrogen from water via electrolysis using molybdenum sulfide – moly sulfide for short – as the catalyst in place of the expensive metal platinum.
Enter moly sulfide. Since World War II, moly sulfide has been used by petroleum engineers in the refinement of oil. It was thought to be inefficient for the electrolysis of hydrogen from water due to the molecular structure at its surface.
That was until Stanford Engineering's Jens Nørskov, then at the Technical University of Denmark, noticed this structure differed at the edges of the crystal lattice. Around the edges, hydrogen production was possible as the structure has only two chemical bonds rather than the three seen elsewhere in its structure. This meant moly sulfide was capable of electrolyzing hydrogen, if only at the edges.
Next came the Eureka moment, when the researchers uncovered a 30-year-old recipe for double bonded moly sulfide. Using this recipe, nanoclusters of double-bonded moly sulfide were synthesized and deposited on an electrically conductive sheet of graphite to form a cheap electrode alternative to platinum.
Initial tests show the new technology to work at an efficiency approaching that of platinum. Early cost predictions for factory-scale production range from $1.60 to $10.40, which at the lower end would be competitive with current methane-based methods.
http://www.gizmag.com/moly-sulfide-catalyst-hydrogen-production/30762/
So, moly sulfide and graphene membranes should be relatively inexpensive to make. And even cheaper since you can burn candles for the graphene! lol
New research shows candle soot can power the lithium batteries in electric cars
(http://cdn.phys.org/newman/csz/news/800/2015/12-newresearchs.jpg)
Burning a candle could be all it takes to make an inexpensive but powerful electric car battery, according to new research published in Electrochimica Acta. The research reveals that candle soot could be used to power the kind of lithium ion battery used in plug-in hybrid electric cars.
In the new study, Dr. Chandra Sharma and Dr. Manohar Kakunuri found that because of the shape and configuration of the tiny carbon nanoparticles, the carbon in candle soot is suitable for use in bigger batteries. What's more, because the soot could be produced quickly and easily, it is a scalable approach to making batteries.
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-candle-soot-power-lithium-batteries.html#jCp
Cosmo
Hi Cosmo,
Sorry for delayed post, and thanks for your further info.
It does all look very interesting and impressive.
Nano Pore technology...one atom thick...
its another type of eg of reduced technology.. similar to the micro chip technology...smaller and smaller and more effective.
QuoteKarnik and Jain then developed a model to interpret the measurements, and used it to translate the experiment's measurements into estimates of pore size. Based on the model, they found that the diameter of many of the pores was below 1 nanometer, which -- given the single-atom thickness of graphene -- makes them among the smallest pores through which scientists have studied ion flow.
With the model, the group calculated the effect of various factors on pore behavior, and found that the observed pore behavior was captured by three main characteristics: a pore's size, its electrical charge, and the position of that charge along a pore's length.
QuoteSo, use an ion beam to punch holes in your platinum substrate and then vapor deposition to layer on the graphene...and there's your hydrogen producing membrane.
What potentially your idea could be worth is very hard to say without knowing more details....but I would think would you or whoever could mass produce it on the right scale would make one very wealthy. be it if you were able to act on it either alone or with a trusted source who could fund it
And if you have thought of a step ahead of the people involved then one wonders what one would do in such a situation .
Can one approach an existing Trusted Company who is in the business and risk offering your idea to them in exchange for them to fund and produce it.
or is there a way for an individual to start up..which I suspect will be less likely and would require a lot of capital.
It would be annoying if you had a brilliant idea no one else had thought of .. in relation to such a invention / product...that could be developed further or used in a way with another related , associated product connected to the Free Energy product.
QuoteHey Astro...how much is that idea worth? ;D
Or maybe use the porous platinum manufacturing used in the link in my previous post and create sheets of porous platinum(may have to machine them...determine mean void diameter in porous platinum and make sheets thin enough to allow hydrogen to pass) and then use vapor deposition to layer gaphene on that for a membrane.
Its hard to say what the likes of the Govts or Oil Barons would make of this to them.
There have been egs as Seeker indicates as to what happened to past Free energy Inventors.
If a large company got involved ...would they be Free from such threats or will the powers that be still have control over them and or find ways to prevent the creation of free energy devices. or still take out the leaders or inventors.
Will there become a time or Company that has the power to stop such intervention..
or should such things be done on small scale...or something sold to certain persons in the know...
Does the fear behind considering the possible negative consequences keep it suppressed ?
Will it take overcoming Govt / Big Business corruption before we can be free to have such technology ?
Just added....
Having said all that from what your lastest post suggests... the technology seems to becoming on the open market..
I assume this is another similar idea to the original one you posted.
maybe even more advanced or efficient. or that may need to be further researched.
QuoteLooks like the cat is out of the bag.(and it's not Schrodinger's cat) There are all kinds of youtube videos on how to make graphene and even graphene super capacitors. You can also buy commercial graphene capacitors now.
And...more good news! We don't even need the very expensive platinum.
Could moly sulfide be the key to cheaper hydrogen production?
Quote
So, moly sulfide and graphene membranes should be relatively inexpensive to make. And even cheaper since you can burn candles for the graphene! lol
New research shows candle soot can power the lithium batteries in electric cars