Pegasus Research Consortium

EU referendum: 25 Tory rebels plot to vote down Queen's Speech as Labour MP caught calling voter 'horrible racist' on campaign trail.


I Thought that I would start a thread on the EU Referendum...and that this maybe a good article to start with..

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/18/potd_queen_elizabeth-large_trans++eo_i_u9APj8RuoebjoAHt0k9u7HhRJvuo-ZLenGRumA.jpg)

No 10 behind 'vicious briefings' against Brexit campaigners
Downing Street 'considered calling police' over leaked EU letter
Cameron faces anger for failing to introduce Sovereignty Bill
Labour MP calls a voter a 'horrible racist'
Former New York mayor warns against Brexit
Jeremy Corbyn launches new business initiative


Labour MP calls a voter a 'horrible racist'

Pat Glass, Labour's shadow Europe minister has apologised after describing a voter she met in Sawley, Derbyshire this morning as a "horrible racist".

According to Radio Derby, she also vowed to boycott his neighbourhood, describing it as "wherever this is".

Ms Glass said later: "The comments I made were inappropriate and I regret them.

"Concerns about immigration are entirely valid and it's important that politicians engage with them.

"I apologise to the people living in Sawley for any offence I have caused."

Tory MP Maggie Throup, whose Erewash constituency includes Sawley, said the Labour frontbencher "needs to understand that the EU referendum is a highly emotive subject with passionate views on each side of the debate".

Jeremy Corbyn arrives at the Senate House with Pat Glass
Jeremy Corbyn arrives at the Senate House with Pat Glass CREDIT: MARK THOMAS / I-IMAGES
Eurosceptic Tories lead Common's rebellion

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/19/z6ba55a0d-b999-4a11-a061-362adef0a1bd-large_trans++CcB5qS0jET7GejOynLCOcQnzFCwXQzvXrWzrsRaKqw4.jpg)

More than 25 Eurosceptic Tories will lead a rebellion which could lead to the first Government defeat on a Queen's Speech since 1924.

Jeremy Cobyn has confirmed Labour will join forces with the Conservative MPs and the SNP in supporting an amendment to explicitly protect the National Health Service from an EU trade deal with the US.

It follows claims that the deal, called the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, could lead to the privatisation of parts of the NHS.

The amendment expresses regret that "a Bill to protect the National Health Service from the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership was not included in the Gracious Speech."

The last time a Queen's Speech amendment was successful was in 1924, when Labour tabled a motion of no confidence in Stanley Baldwin's Conservative Government.

The motion was passed by 328 votes to 251, forcing Mr Baldwin to resign as Prime Minister and Ramsay MacDonald subsequently formed the first Labour Government. 

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/18/98345912_Queen-state-large_trans++eo_i_u9APj8RuoebjoAHt0k9u7HhRJvuo-ZLenGRumA.jpg)
The Queen and Duke Edinburgh
The Queen and Duke Edinburgh CREDIT: STEPHEN LOCK / I-IMAGES
No 10 behind 'vicious briefings' against Brexit campaigners

Downing Street is behind "vicious briefings" against the campaign to leave the European Union,  a eurosceptic Conservative MP has claimed.

In an article for the ConservativeHome website, Steve Baker, the co-chairman of Conservatives for Britain, hits out at the "petty tabloid smears" against those campaigning to leave the EU.

Calling for an end to "personal nastiness", he also warns of "deep divisions" in the Party.

A Downing Street spokesman said: "We don't accept Steve Baker's article.

"All our arguments are rooted in the thought that we are stronger, safer and better off in the EU."


(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/19/europe_3583949b-large_trans++pJliwavx4coWFCaEkEsb3kvxIt-lGGWCWqwLa_RXJU8.jpg)
Union Jack flags fly in front of The Houses of Parliament
Union Jack flags fly in front of The Houses of Parliament CREDIT: JASON ALDEN/BLOOMBERG
Downing Street 'considered calling police' over leaked EU letter

Downing Street reportedly considered involving the police over the leaking of a letter from Rupert Soames, chief executive officer of outsourcing company Serco, to the Prime Minister.

David Cameron is facing intense pressure from within Tory ranks over "shocking" claims he misled parliament following a "stitch-up" with big business over EU referendum campaigning.

In a leaked letter from February, seen by the Daily Mail,  at a time when Mr Cameron said he would "rule nothing out" if he did not secure his desired changes - the head of a multi-national company raises the idea of "how to mobilise corporates" about the risks of leaving the EU.

A Whitehall source told The Times: "It was a letter about prisons. Draw your own conclusions."

Another added: "They were considering calling the police, though they were hoping that it wouldn't come to that and that the Queen's Speech would distract from it."

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/17/cameron-world-economic-forum-news-large_trans++JwcOq3zzVZdXmODgA8vKOedWO2cdTG8UmuNMn-qD6IQ.jpg)

Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron
Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron CREDIT: FRANK AUGSTEIN/PA


4:37pm
What are the Tory rebels doing?
More than 25 eurosceptic Tory rebels have joined forces with Labour and tabled an amendment to the Queen's Speech.

They have tabled a motion stating that the NHS should be explicitly protected from an EU trade deal with the US.

The amendment expresses regret that "a Bill to protect the National Health Service from the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership was not included in the Gracious Speech."

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/04/01/Conservatives_news_EUreferendum_92800556-large_trans++ILc3ZdmL_S5p7GkdnlbdzMJDUeano90_CJ9ZIbDPTok.jpg)
The NHS
The NHS CREDIT: DOMINIC LIPINSKI/PA
What are they concerned about? The MPs fear that the deal will lead to the privatisation of the NHS by paving the way for US healthcare providers in the UK.

Ministers that the NHS will not be affected by the historic trade deal, but Tory MPs are fear it will give US healthcare companies grounds to sue the Government. Why does this matter?

The last time a Queen's Speech amendment was successful was in 1924, when Labour tabled a motion of no confidence in Stanley Baldwin's Conservative Government.

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/18/98346236_Queen-Elizabeth-large_trans++eo_i_u9APj8RuoebjoAHt0k9u7HhRJvuo-ZLenGRumA.jpg)

Queen Elizabeth II leaves Buckingham Palace
Queen Elizabeth II leaves Buckingham Palace CREDIT: DOMINIC LIPINSKI/PA
The motion was passed by 328 votes to 251, forcing Mr Baldwin to resign as Prime Minister and Ramsay MacDonald subsequently formed the first Labour Government.

Parliament's website states: "If the Queen's Speech is amended, the Prime Minister will have to resign."

The Conservative rebels already have the support of Labour, and are likely to garner the support of the SNP.

So will David Cameron have to quit? Probably not.

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/05/17/97899641-PMRegister-Opinion-large_trans++i2ctj82rCJy3QOqq5vOjvbeO_eHYcalK3oh93s0xrHI.jpg)
British Prime Minister David Cameron
British Prime Minister David Cameron CREDIT: REUTERS/WILL OLIVER
He may have to take the unusual step of supporting the rebel amendment, given that the Government does not think that the trade deal will affect the NHS anyway.

There are also suggestions that under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, a successful amendment to the Queen's Speech is no longer regarded as a vote of no confidence in the Government.

However, enough ambiguity remains for the rebels to give the Prime Minister a constitutional headache.

Report from Steven Swinford

4:02pm
Conservative MP condemns 'horrible racist' comments
Tory MP Maggie Throup, whose Erewash constituency includes Sawley, said the Labour frontbencher "needs to understand that the EU referendum is a highly emotive subject with passionate views on each side of the debate".

"Her comments echo those of Gordon Brown's during the ill-fated Labour general election campaign in 2010, and clearly demonstrate just how out of touch Labour still are with a large proportion of British people."

She called on the shadow Europe minister "to make a full apology to my constituent at the earliest opportunity" and to return to the area "to see for herself just how great a place it is to live, work and raise a family".

Maggie Throup MP
Maggie Throup MP
4:01pm
Alan Johnson: Boris Johnson's Hitler comments 'insulting'
He told BBC Radio London: "I don't think Boris is funny anymore when he does things like that... Poland lost a sixth of its population in the Second World War - six million people.

"And for them to hear Boris Johnson comparing the EU - that they're a very important participant in - as being like Hitler is just beyond insult."

2:48pm
Frank Field MP supports Tory rebels
The Labour veteran says: We can't have kangaroo courts, operating only to America's advantage, deciding how we should trade in respect of the NHS."

Frank Field MP
Frank Field MP
2:28pm
MP apologises for calling voter a 'horrible racist'
Pat Glass said MP: "The comments I made were inappropriate and I regret them.

"Concerns about immigration are entirely valid and it's important that politicians engage with them.

"I apologise to the people living in Sawley for any offence I have caused."





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/downing-street-accused-of-vicious-briefings-against-brexit-campa/?ref=yfp

The reasons the Leave campaign are losing the EU referendum.


(https://s.yimg.com/nn/fp/rsz/052316/images/smush/230516_farage_635x250_1464010060.jpg)

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/__6X5M6C4raVak48XMwSHQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/politics.co.uk/56806361a83be16233ae927933e81c48)

The Remain campaign has so far been endorsed by the prime minister, the chancellor, the leader of almost every opposition party, the chairman of the Bank of England, most leading economists, the vast majority of leading businesses and trade unions and the president of the United States.

The Leave campaign has so far been endorsed by one former mayor of London, a handful of disgruntled cabinet ministers, one eccentric former aide to the prime minister, the seven-times unelected leader of Ukip, and the leader of the French National Front.

To say this represents a slightly unfair fight is an understatement on an almost continental scale. In fact so spectacularly mismatched are the two campaigns, it is less surprising that the Leave campaign are losing, than the fact they are judged to still have any chance at all.

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Ygl37bCbYKRYV0ZVAk5Csg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTAyNDtoPTU3NjtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_uk/News/pressass/news-uk-279809-b00aadc1c5c6b4e32cf96ebfe58376f8-d3d954ff-9e3e-4501-8a0d-3316fe0a0687-1.jpg)

And yet if you look at the opinion polls, there is at least a reasonable chance Britain will still vote to leave the EU. Of the last 15 published polls, seven have put the Leave campaign ahead, with most online polls still showing the race neck and neck. Also cheering the Brexit campaign is the fact that most polls show Leavers are significantly more motivated. A recent British Election study of 22,000 voters across the UK found Leave edging ahead once those less likely to vote were excluded. If the Leave campaign can sufficiently motivate their supporters to the polls, there's still a decent chance Britain will head for the EU exit door.

So will that happen? Unfortunately for the Leave campaign it's looking increasingly unlikely. A series of phone polls published over the past week have shown the Remain camp with a lead of between eight and 18 points. This matters, as all the evidence from the recent local and regional elections suggests that online polls (which have so far been significantly more favourable to Brexit) have been over-representing Brexit-supporting Ukip voters.

As a result of these findings, punters are increasingly putting their money on a Remain victory. Bookies currently rate the chances of Brexit at just 22% - the same odds they offer on George Osborne becoming the next leader of the Conservative party and considerably lower odds than they offer on Donald Trump becoming the next president.

Independent analysts agree. Polling expert Matt Singh, who was almost the only forecaster to accurately predict the outcome of the last general election, suggests that Leave has just a 17% chance of winning. He currently forecasts a Remain lead of more than 12 points.

This doesn't look good for the Brexiteers. In previous referendum campaigns, voters have tended to drift towards the status quo as polling day draws nearer. So with just one month to go, victory seems to be slipping away from the Brexit campaign.

So what exactly went wrong? Here are the three main reasons the Leave campaign is losing the argument.

Narrowness of support

One of the biggest weaknesses for the Leave campaign is the impression that it is the cause of a narrow and very right-wing slice of the electorate. The leading politicians in the Brexit campaign are almost all either right-wing Tory or Ukip politicians. Throw in the support of Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump and Leave increasingly looks like a campaign run entirely by right-wing ideologues. So far the most well known left-wing member of the campaign that Leave have managed to recruit, is a man who recently won just one per cent of votes in the London mayoral election.


This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker. If every single Conservative voter in the country was joined by every single Ukip voter in voting Leave, then they would probably win. But the most recent polls suggest that while initially heavily eurosceptic, Conservative voters are increasingly leaning towards Remain. If Leave still has any chance of winning then they need to either dramatically turn that around, or reach out beyond their comfort zone of Ukippers and Ukip-leaning Tories. So far they are doing neither.

Narrowness of message

Polls suggest that dissatisfaction with immigration is the biggest motivator for those wanting to leave the EU. So naturally the Leave campaign is increasingly concentrating on that message. But while this clearly has the potential to maximise the Leave campaign's core vote it also risks putting a limit on the breadth of their support. While scaring voters about millions of Turkish criminals about to storm the English channel may help motivate those already leaning towards Brexit, it also puts off exactly the sort of left-leaning voters the Brexit campaign needs to convince in order to get over the 50% it needs to win.

Hitting your pocket

More than anything else, the Leave campaign's failure to win the economic argument explains why they are losing this referendum. Research suggests that economic arguments are the decisive factor in referendum campaigns. A study earlier this year by YouGov and the political scientist Philip Cowley found that telling voters they will be better or worse off by as little as £10 a week, was enough to alter the outcome of both the Scottish referendum and the upcoming EU referendum. Interestingly, the actual amount of theoretical monetary loss or gain made little difference. All that mattered was the idea that voting one way or another would hit voters' pockets.

The Remain campaign knows this, which is why they have been relentlessly pushing the message that Brexit will cause a recession, decrease house prices, increase food prices and possibly cause you to lose your job. The Brexit campaign have responded to these claims by variously mocking them, questioning their accuracy or even at one point suggesting that such costs were "a price worth paying."

All of this misses the point. For most voters, it doesn't really matter whether Brexit will cost them a tenner a week or £5,000 a year. As long as the consensus view is that leaving the EU will hit their pockets, then a majority of voters will vote to stay in. Simply banging on about abstract notions of 'sovereighnty', or EU regulations on banana bunches, simply won't make any difference. All that matters is the economic argument. Unless the Leave campaign can win that debate, they are doomed to lose.

Can Leave still win?

For this reason, the Leave campaign's claim that EU membership costs the UK £350 million is probably their best card in this referendum. The fact that the figure doesn't take into account either the UK's rebate, or the money received back from the EU, or the wider economic benefits from being a member, doesn't really matter. For most voters £350m sounds like a lot of money and Remain campaigners have always sounded at their weakest when trying to defend it.

There is also still an outside chance that Europe could descend into a new migration crisis within the next few weeks, which in turn could tip the scales towards Brexit. A horrific Paris-style terror attack on UK soil is one other event that could potentially cause a lot of voters to want to raise the drawbridge.

However, as things stand the referendum is the Remain campaign's to lose. So far there's little reason to believe they're going to lose it.

Adam Bienkov is the deputy editor of Politics.co.uk


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/the-reasons-the-leave-campaign-are-losing-the-eu-125442909.html

BREXIT WOULD PLUNGE U.K. INTO YEAR-LONG RECESSION WARNS TREASURY

[img]http://d.europe.newsweek.com/en/full/57382/george-osborne.jpg?w=704/img]


Leaving the European Union would tip the U.K. into a year-long recession and lower Britain's economic growth by 3.6 percent, according to Treasury analysis.

The country would suffer an "immediate and profound" economic shock of its own making, Chancellor George Osborne, who released the study, warned.

Subscribe now - Free phone/tablet charger worth over £54
But Vote Leave's Iain Duncan Smith said people would not believe the Treasury's "deeply biased view of the future."

It comes one month before the vote on Britain's EU membership on June 23.

The Treasury's economic forecasts of the two years following a vote to leave predicts Gross Domestic Product would drop by 3.6 percent and push the economy into recession.

There would also be a sharp rise in inflation and house price growth would be hit by 10 percent, it claimed.

http://europe.newsweek.com/brexit-vote-leave-would-plunge-uk-year-long-recession-462406?rm=eu

                           ==================

Brexit 2016: How staying in EU will affect holiday costs

Brexit 2016: How staying in the EU will affect the cost of holidays.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/video/brexit-2016-staying-eu-affect-154637068.html

                             ================
Tenants hit hard as rents reach record high

Tenants are being hit by record-high rents and the added cost of the Government's stamp duty rise on buy-to-let properties, a report has found.
Rents rose at their fastest rate for six months in April, hitting an average of £793 across England and Wales, according to the latest Buy-to-Let index.
The study from Your Move and Reeds Rains means tenants have seen an increase of 0.3% month-on-month, while rents are also 2.4% higher compared to the same point last year.
The average tenant is now paying an extra £19 a month, with rents reaching all-time highs in the East of England, the West Midlands and the East Midlands, the research revealed.
[READ: London pad covered in 'swimming pool' tiles costs £900 a month]
It added that the average landlord in England and Wales saw total returns of 10.7% in the year to April when taking into account rental income and capital growth.
Adrian Gill, director of lettings agents Your Move and Reeds Rains, said: "Anyone looking for a home to rent may now find the better deals of the winter months are over. Landlords are seeing renewed interest and competition between potential tenants, as the spring rental market accelerates.
"Some of the reasons for rent rises are extremely encouraging. Tenants looking to find a property to rent are more likely to be in work, getting pay rises, and feeling able to pay their other bills. These wider economic fundamentals are shifting on the side of healthier household finances.
"But very little has changed in terms of the supply of homes to let. So for many tenants, it's likely that a large proportion of any earnings growth is swallowed up by higher rents."
The report also said that some tenants could  face higher bills as landlords pass on the cost of the stamp duty surcharge on buy-to-let properties, which came into force on April 1.
[SLIDESHOW: Oliver Reed's English mansion on sale for £4,950,000]
Mr Gill added: "And the Government hasn't helped by imposing an extra bill that someone will have to pay on top of this - in the form of the recent stamp duty surcharge.
"To a large extent it's likely that penalty will be shouldered by those tenants looking for homes to rent, due only to the fundamentals of supply and demand in the British housing market."
A Department for Communities and Local Government spokesman said: "This Government is creating a bigger and better private rented sector, which meets the needs of tenants and landlords, while encouraging record investment.
"The vast majority of tenants across the country are seeing their rents remain stable, and are happy with the service they receive from landlords.
"We are doing all of this without the need for excessive state regulation that would destroy investment in new housing, push up prices and make it far harder for people to find a flat or house to rent."

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/tenants-hit-hard-rents-reach-230101878.html

                  ==========================
EU Referendum: Tories in revolt as David Cameron suggests vote to leave EU is 'immoral'

Britain faces a 'recession of its own making'
Sajid Javid 'privately backs Brexit'
Brexit would be 'very dangerous' for the NHS
David Cameron's former adviser Steve Hilton backs Brexit
Brexit MP accuses Vote Leave of 'cynical distortion'
Conservative Party may have 'mis-declared' expenses
Latest: Tories in revolt as PM suggests vote to leave EU is "immoral"

David Cameron suggested that voting for Brexit was immoral, Christopher Hope and Ben Riley-Smith report.

The Prime Minister faced a backlash from members of his own Government, including threats of resignations, after he gave warning that leaving the European Union would be the "self-destruct option" for Britain, and that the "moral case" at the referendum was to stay in the EU.

Mr Cameron was speaking as the Treasury published an analysis warning that a British exit from the EU would plunge the country into a year-long recession and cost as many as 820,000 jobs in just two years.

The report was criticised by leading Tory Eurosceptics such as Boris Johnson, who said it was a "hoax", and the former Cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith, who said it was "not an honest assessment but a deeply biased view of the future".

David Cameron and Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne deliver a speech on the potential economic impact to the UK on leaving the EU at a B&Q Store Support Office
David Cameron and Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne deliver a speech on the potential economic impact to the UK on leaving the EU at a B&Q Store Support Office  CREDIT: 2016 GETTY IMAGES
Think tanks such as Oxford Economics and Open Europe were also critical, while rumours swept Westminster that two members of the Government – a junior minister and a ministerial aide – were threatening to resign in protest.

The Treasury document said that in the worst case scenario GDP will fall by 6 per cent, house prices by 18 per cent and the deficit will rise by £39?billion. The pound would drop 15 per cent.

Speaking at the head office of B&Q in Hampshire, Mr Cameron said that, given these risks to the British economy, a Remain vote was the "moral" choice for voters.

He said: "The economic case is the moral case – for keeping parents in work, firms in business, Britain in credit, the moral case for providing economic opportunity rather than unemployment for the next generation.

"Where is the morality for putting that at risk for some unknown end? It would be like surviving a fall then running straight back to the cliff edge. It is the self-destruct option."

George Osborne delivers speech on remaining in the EU at  B&Q Headquarters in Eastleigh
George Osborne delivers speech on remaining in the EU at  B&Q Headquarters in Eastleigh CREDIT:  JULIAN SIMMONDS
Mr Osborne, standing next to the Prime Minister, took direct aim at senior Tory Brexiteers for allowing less well-off voters to take the hit of Britain leaving the EU.

He said: "To those fellow politicians who say we should vote to leave I'd say this: you might think the economic shock is a price worth paying.

"But it's not your wages that will be hit, it's not your livelihoods that will go, it's not you who'll struggle to pay the bills. It's the working people of Britain who will pay the price if we leave the EU."

Mr Johnson, the former mayor of London, said during a tour of Yorkshire that there was a danger the pair's "scaremongering" could itself help plunge the economy into recession.

He said the warnings were "totally made up" and there was "no evidence whatsoever" the economy would fall into recession if the country left the EU.

He added: "I am worried that they are starting to talk Britain down quite significantly. I don't think it's necessary."  Tory members of the Government were also critical. One ministerial aide said: "I can't think of a time when a Chancellor and a Prime Minister have actively talked down the economy.

"It is deeply irresponsible to talk down the British economy in this way and it is incredible to me what these people will do to save their careers."  Another added: "The problem going forward is how on earth can these people be believed ever again?

Boris Johnson campaigning for 'Vote Leave' ahead of the EU referendum
Boris Johnson campaigning for 'Vote Leave' ahead of the EU referendum CREDIT: BEN STEVENS / I-IMAGES
"I think it is impossible, absolutely impossible that David Cameron can reunite the party after this. The idea that he can bounce into the next 1922 [Committee] meeting after the referendum and say, 'Chaps well it was a fair fight let's move on'. It was not a fair fight – you behaved absolutely terribly."

The disquiet within the Tory leadership ranks emerged as a former minister claimed a Brexit would put research and development facilities at risk of shutting down.

David Willetts, the former universities and science minister, also said research aimed at finding cures for diseases such as Ebola would be at risk because restriction on movement will mean less co-operation in British labs.

On June 23, 2016 Great Britain will hold a referendum on whether or not the United Kingdom will remain within the European Union,
On June 23, 2016 Great Britain will hold a referendum on whether or not the United Kingdom will remain within the European Union, CREDIT: PHILIPPE HUGUEN
There are already signs that leading academics from abroad are not taking up posts at British universities until they know the results of the referendum next month.  Speaking to The Daily Telegraph, Baron Willetts said cutting ties with the rest of Europe will make it more expensive for Britain to take part in collaborative research.

Ahead of a debate on the influence of the EU on British education, he said: "The argument has been focused too far on the financial returns, though it is true we get more back from the EU research budget that we put in because of the quality of our university research but I see it above all about free movement of students and academics.

He said the position of international companies that have research and development units in the UK, such as Siemens, would be compromised because "the flow of investment in and out of the UK" would be at risk. Asked if that meant some facilities would shut down, he said: "That would be a risk."  He highlighted the European Bio-informatics Institute outside Cambridge and the Culham Centre for Fusion Energy near Oxford as two research centres that would suffer after a Brexit.



Cameron and Osborne attacked over 'propaganda filled' Brexit report

More than 800,000 people could lose their jobs because of the "severe" economic shock of a Brexit, the Treasury has said as it warned that Britain will face a recession as deep as it did in the early 1990s.

Today both the Prime Minister and Chancellor claimed Britain will be plunged into a recession "of its own making" if the country votes for Brexit.

Responding to the report Boris Johnson accused the government of putting out more "propaganda than we have seen" at any time since 1992.

Osborne: Does Britain really want this 'DIY recession?'Play! 01:31
The Treasury said that in the worst case scenario GDP will fall by 6 per cent, house prices by 18 per cent and the deficit will rise by £39billion. The value of the pound, the Treasury says, will fall by 15 per cent.

Eurosceptic MPs have reacted furiously to the report.

Tory MP and Leave campaigner Bernard Jenkin said: "Does not the Government's entire campaign just reinforce the unfortunate impression that today's political leaders will say anything they think will help them get what they want, whether it is true or not?

"Do you not realise that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister are contributing to cynicism about politics, in the sense that voters should not trust their rulers but should make their own choice and their own judgment?"

David Cameron and George Osborne
David Cameron and George Osborne
Sajid Javid rejects claim he 'privately backs Brexit' 

Sajid Javid was forced to deny he secretly supports Britain leaving the EU, after Ian Duncan Smith claimed he privately told colleagues he backs Brexit.

The Business Secretary, who has voiced strong Eurosceptic views in the past, dismissed the allegation as "simply not true".

It came as George Osborne intensified his attack on members of his own Cabinet, accusing them of ignoring the impact on "working people".

Mr Duncan Smith said he was "disappointed" with Mr Javid, who infuriated both eurosceptic and eurohpile colleagues by flirting with Brexit before choosing to join the Remain campaign.

IDS outraged after Chancellor 'fiddled' with Treasury reportPlay! 01:46
Mr Duncan Smith told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I'm deeply disappointed in him, having privately said how much he wanted the UK to leave the European Union he is now on defending this terrible report."

Asked to clarify whether Mr Javid had privately told Duncan Smith that he wanted Britain to leave the EU, he said: "He has."

The comments were instantly rejected by Mr Javid and a Whitehall source hit back: "This is simply not true. Sajid has said no such thing in private or in public."

Mr Javid, who has described himself as a "Brussels basher", last year claimed that the "costs outweigh benefits" when it comes to EU membership.

Sajid Javid, U.K. business secretary
Sajid Javid, U.K. business secretary CREDIT: SIMON DAWSON/BLOOMBERG
David Cameron's former adviser Steve Hilton backs Brexit

David Cameron has slapped down the decision by his friend and former Number 10 strategy chief Steve Hilton to back Brexit.

Steve Hilton, one of David Cameron's oldest advisers, is at odds with the Prime Minister over the EU referendum.

Writing in the Daily Mail, he criticised the bloc's bureaucracy and said it was "anti-enterprise", "anti-market" and "anti-trade" and removed control from the Government because of the constraints it imposed on everything from employment law to family policy.

Steve Hilton has said he backs Brexit
Steve Hilton has said he backs Brexit
Asked if he was "personally offended or disappointed" by Mr Hilton's comments in the Daily Mail and whether they had damaged their relationship, Mr Cameron said: "The thing about a referendum is that everybody gets a vote. You only get one each but everybody has a vote.

"Everybody is entitled to their opinions. What we are talking about today is not the opinion of this person or that person but actually the weight of evidence.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/eu-referendum-david-cameron-and-george-osborne-warn-brexit-would/?ref=yfp

The days finally arrived for Brits to cast their votes to leave or to  stay in the EU..

Lord Monton talks about how he views the issues and says Britain should leave as the Globalists real agenda is to try to make a type of one World Government...and that Britain has a chance to get out and set an example...

Also if they stay in..any votes to do most things will be based on 27 other voters and sometimes only one has to disagree to prevent a agenda that Britain may have believed that the majority may have wanted..

He also believes that Cameron although saying about the 27 other countries that MAY say this or that... is no guarantee..say on decisions like on Turkey..

Immigration is  a main issue and he says that the only way to control it is to be our own countries decisions rather than relying on 27 other countries deciding..on Britain's behalf..

It does NOT however guarantee that who ever maybe in Power even if Britain leave the EU that they may still not place restrictions on Immigration..

so is that a real reason to make such a consideration ?


BREXIT: Independence Day for Britain?

Will June 23 be Britain's 4th of July? The vote on whether Britain will leave the European Union will be held Thursday. Lord Monckton explains why BREXIT is part of the movement against globalist efforts to eradicate democracies worldwide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5tdYj7Gl2I


How the UK could remain in the EU even if it votes to leave

QuoteIf Britain votes to leave the EU on Thursday, it'll be final. Irreversible. Irrevocable. No appeals. No second chances.
"Out is out," European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters Wednesday.
"You can't jump out of the airplane and then clamber back into the cockpit," is how British Prime Minister David Cameron put it in a radio interview a few hours earlier.
But what if a vote to leave weren't really that final or dramatic? Some experts are wondering whether Britain can ever really free itself from the European Union — even if voters strongly endorse hitting the eject button. Others say it's not out of the question that Brits could find themselves going back to the ballot box in a few years' time if buyer's remorse sets in.
"The EU is a bit like the Hotel California in the Eagles song," said Tim Oliver, a fellow at the London School of Economics' IDEAS foreign policy think tank. "You can check out anytime but you never really leave."
Much of the uncertainty stems from the ambiguity about what a British exit, or Brexit, really means. Abandoning Europe could mean anything from a sweeping withdrawal from EU institutions to more limited opt-outs which could leave major pillars of European integration, such as free movement of labor, untouched.
"'Leave' could mean a million different things," Oliver said, giving Britain's political establishment considerable scope to loiter in Europe's lobby as euroskeptics argue over where the exits are.
Experts say there might be even more room for maneuver in the months and years following an "out" vote.
In theory, a two-year countdown goes into effect after a European country formally notifies its partners of its intention to quit the union, but complex international negotiations routinely run on for years and the parties involved could let the deadline lapse as talks drag on, perhaps even past Britain's 2020 parliamentary elections.
What if voters' minds change between now and then? And even if the negotiations over Britain's departure were concluded on time, what would happen if the U.K. were presented with unfavorable terms?
One expert said he could envisage a last-chance referendum asking Brits whether they still wanted to leave the EU under those conditions.
"It is at least legally possible and it might create the political space for a government to back out of an exit," said Gavin Barrett, an expert on European constitutional law at University College Dublin. "I think a case could be made for a second referendum asking, 'Do you really want this?'"
The let's-vote-on-this-one-more-time maneuver has helped bail out the European project before, albeit under different circumstances. After Irish voters rejected EU reforms in 2008, politicians in Dublin won modest concessions from their European counterparts and ran the vote again the following year, this time with a positive outcome. Similar EU referendum do-overs turned an Irish "No" into a "Yes" in 2002 and helped secured a Danish "Ja" in 1993.
But the path to a second referendum in Britain is far narrower, in part because — unlike in Ireland — the political establishment is split over Europe. If leading euroskeptic Boris Johnson takes the reins of the ruling Conservative Party following a vote to leave the EU, the prospect of a final vote will fade further still.
Alan Renwick, the deputy director of the Constitution Unit at University College London, said a do-over would only be plausible "if a party wins the 2020 election on a platform of having a second referendum and trying to go back in."
That seems unlikely given the current political alignment, but he said nothing is completely out of the question when it comes to a potential Brexit.
"You have so many possible long shot scenarios," he said. "If you add up the probabilities of all of them, you end up with a significant chance of something surprising happening, whatever that might be."

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-could-remain-eu-even-votes-leave-194317076--finance.html



Britain votes on EU membership after tight and bitter campaign

QuoteBritons were voting on Thursday to decide the future of their country and Europe in a referendum on European Union membership that has divided the nation and is being nervously watched by financial markets and politicians across the world.

Opinion polls taken before the vote indicated the outcome is far too close to forecast.

Prime Minister David Cameron called the vote under pressure from his ruling Conservative Party and an increasingly powerful anti-EU party, hoping to put to rest decades of debate over Britain's place in Europe and its ties with Brussels.

Most polls put the "Leave" and "Remain" camps neck-and-neck at the end of a campaign that was dominated by immigration and the economy, and shaken by the murder of a pro-EU MP, though late on Wednesday two showed a swing to "Remain".

The "Leave" campaign says Britain's economy would benefit from a Brexit, or British exit from the EU. Cameron says it would cause financial chaos.

Traders, investors and companies are preparing for volatility on financial markets whatever the outcome of a vote that both reflects, and has fuelled, an anti-establishment mood also seen in the United States and elsewhere in Europe.

Finance leaders from the Group of Seven leading economies will issue a statement stressing their readiness to take all necessary steps to calm markets if Britain votes to leave, government officials with direct knowledge of the preparations said.

Britain's AAA credit rating could be swiftly downgraded by Standard and Poor's after a vote in favour of leaving the EU, S&P chief sovereign ratings officer Moritz Kraemer told German daily newspaper Bild. {nL8N19E52V]

Much will depend on turnout, with younger Britons seen as more supportive of the EU than their elders but less likely to vote.

"Go out and vote remain for a bigger, better Britain inside a reformed European Union," Cameron told "Remain" campaigners on Wednesday.

His main rival, former London mayor Boris Johnson, whose decision to support "Leave" galvanised its campaign, told voters this was the "last chance to sort this out".

Sterling rose to its highest so far this year against the U.S. dollar late on Wednesday after one poll pointed to a clear lead for "Remain" and betting markets priced in an 80 percent chance Britain would not leave.

Polling stations for 382 local counting areas opened at 0600 GMT and close at 2100, with most of the results expected between around 0100 and 0300 on June 24.

On Wednesday, campaigners from both sides tried to win over the estimated 10 percent of the 46.5 million electorate who polls suggest had still not decided how to vote.

The "In" campaign took aim at their rivals by saying a Brexit would hurt the economy, security and the country's status. The "Out" campaign said high levels of immigration could not be controlled inside the EU and it was time to bring powers back from Brussels to London.

"If we don't vote to leave tomorrow we will remain locked in the back of the car, driven in an uncertain direction, frankly, to a place we don't want to go and perhaps by a driver who doesn't speak the very best of English," said Johnson, a leading candidate to replace Cameron as prime minister.

FOREIGN LEADERS

The killing of lawmaker Jo Cox last week as she prepared to offer advice to those who elected her in northern England, prompted a pause in the campaign and soul-searching about its tone. Her husband said she had been concerned about the coarsening of political dialogue.

The man charged with her murder, asked his name in a London court, responded: "My name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain".

Opinion polls have depicted a deeply divided nation, with big differences between older and younger voters, and between pro-EU London and Scotland, and eurosceptic Middle England.

That split was reflected in British newspapers' front pages. "Independence Day" was the front page headline of the Sun tabloid, Britain's biggest-selling newspaper, while the Daily Mirror warned "Don't take a leap into the dark".

The issue dominated the news far beyond Britain. In China, the Global Times, published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily, warned Britain would lose its influence globally if voters backed a so-called Brexit.

Whatever the outcome of the vote, the focus on immigration to Britain, which has increased significantly in recent years, could worsen divisions in a country where the gap between rich and poor has also been widening.

If Britain chooses to leave, Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon has suggested Scotland may call a referendum on leaving the United Kingdom.

Even with a vote to stay, Cameron could struggle to repair the rifts in his party and hold on to his job.

Foreign leaders, from U.S. President Barack Obama to Chinese leader Xi Jinping, have called on Britain to remain in the EU, a message supported by global financial organisations, many company bosses and central bankers.

International banks have warned that the value of the pound could fall dramatically if Britain votes to leave the EU and traders expect markets to be more volatile than at any time since the 2008-09 financial crisis.

The "Out" campaign says a fall in the value of the pound would boost exports and has found support among some financial specialists and small businesses. It has urged voters to ignore what it calls the "establishment" which it says has the most to lose from Brexit.

The EU has struggled with migrant and economic crisis and a Brexit vote would boost opposition to it within other member states.

"Stay with us," European Council President Donald Tusk said in Lisbon on Monday, addressing British voters.

"Without you, not only Europe, but the whole Western community will become weaker. Together, we will be able to cope with increasingly difficult challenges of the future."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/britain-votes-eu-membership-tight-bitter-campaign-010440800.html



EU Referendum: What Will Happen After The Result?

QuoteThe result of tomorrow's EU referendum vote is balancing on a knife edge - but one thing we can be sure of is that there will be major ramifications - no matter the outcome.

With Brexiters and Remainers locked in a bitter battle, there has already been political fallouts and open civil war within the parties.

A pro-Brexit vote would provoke the biggest shockwave of changes, with the 24 hours after polling becoming known as Black Friday, or Independence Day, depending on how the decision is viewed.

But what is likely to happen on Friday if either side wins?

* The first reactions will come from the international money markets where the pound is expected to slump on the news of a move to withdraw, and rally on a Remain win.

The pro-Brexit side has already signalled they expect a short-term financial hit, with former London mayor Boris Johnson insisting the pound naturally fluctuates. However, billionaire currency speculator George Soros warns the impact will be bigger than 1992's crash.

View photos
Uncertainty: Boris Johnson insists that the pound will naturally fluctuate after a Brexit vote (Rex)

* The outcome of the vote will be the defining moment of David Cameron's premiership. Publicly, both sides insist he should stay on as PM after a Leave vote, but this is seen as politically unrealistic by many observers.

If Britain rejects the Government's view that the country should stay in the EU, Mr Cameron will probably not go immediately, but announce a slow-motion resignation which would see him hand over power in the autumn.

If the Remain side wins, the Prime Minister faces the likelihood of a vote of no confidence as pro-Brexit Tory MPs should be able to command the 50 signatures needed to trigger such a move.

If Mr Cameron lost such a vote, he could still then put his name forward to be one of the two candidates chosen by Conservative MPs to face each other in a vote by the party membership nationwide.

View photos
Forced out? David Cameron may not be Prime Minister for long, regardless of the outcome (Rex)

Mr Johnson and Justice Secretary Michael Gove have both repeatedly denied they have ambitions to replace Mr Cameron as Prime Minister, but they would be well placed for any leadership bid.

* A major overhaul of Cabinet would follow either outcome of the referendum as the Tories try to heal the deep wounds created by an intensely bitter and personalised "blue on blue" campaign.

Mr Johnson is almost certain to enter Cabinet, while Mr Gove has been spoken of as a deputy prime minister in a post-Remain government.

However, the formerly cast iron position of George Osborne looks uncertain as many pro-Brexit MPs privately insist he cannot stay Chancellor after the way he has used Treasury figures to attack their cause.

View photos
Brexiteer: Michael Gove may play a bigger role in government after the vote (Rex)

* A Leave vote could also provoke a major backlash against Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn from MPs who feel he led a lacklustre effort to keep Britain in the EU.

* A pro-Brexit Britain would formally trigger withdrawal from the EU by invoking article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty which would then lead to a two-year negotiation period on the terms of the "divorce", but pro-Leave campaigners say this does not need to happen immediately as they aim to have the UK out of the bloc by the general election slated for May 2020.

* The negotiations would determine whether the UK remains part of the single market without being in the Union, as Norway currently does. However, this would mean the UK would still have to accept free movement of labour. Other options include a Canadian-style free trade deal, a Swiss-style bilateral agreement, or reverting to the basic terms of commerce offered by membership of the World Trade Organisation.

Poor effort: Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's position may grow weaker on Friday (Rex)

* Remain campaigners say withdrawal would have a massive negative impact on London's global position as a financial centre, but the Leave side say it would thrive outside the EU, as it did after the UK rejected joining the Euro.

* The pro-Leave side have signalled they intend to bring in emergency legislation to try to halt an "influx" of migrants if Britain votes to quit the EU.

* The Remain camp insists prices would rise after withdrawal as tariffs are imposed. Leave supporters warn that if the UK stays in the EU it will be forced into closer integration, such as a European army.

* The truth is no one knows for sure exactly what will happen once the results are in. Asked what would happen the day after a Brexit vote, Ukip leader Nigel Farage said: "I've absolutely no idea."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/eu-referendum-what-will-happen-after-the-result-091924446.html

casting a vote is as futile as casting a spinner into a lake full of dead pike. casting a  patrol bomb into the polling booth , just might make a point or two

funbox

Your description maybe correct Funbox !  :)

Probably would be a waste of time and no idea of the overall outcome if one does vote..

But It is the possible only chance to attempt to vote out if one thinks that maybe a better solution to what we have at present !

Quote from: funbox on June 23, 2016, 11:53:34 AM
casting a vote is as futile as casting a spinner into a lake full of dead pike. casting a  patrol bomb into the polling booth , just might make a point or two

funbox

The point on immigration is that within the EU the UK has no control.

Under the EU, Britain and other nations will cease to exist.  They will become mere aggregations of people with no particular language or culture - bound only by economic interests that their stagnant austerity programs cannot meet.

If the Brits want to help world peace, dump the EU, sign up with the EEU/SCO and push for a Eurasian union , 'between Lisbon and Vladivostok'. 

I think you make a valid point 8thMan...

It does seem many a Culture is disappearing on the basis of just what many may see as economic gain or greed.

It does seem much a Britain as many once new it has been slowly fading away..and it will be that the young generation wont even know what it was once like...

It maybe also depend upon ones view or past experience as to how they may view it barring economics..

But I like the idea of visiting other cultures and seeing that nation having its uniqueness..

I would not want to say visit Africa and see it taken over by Chinese  or visit China and see it overalled by a Muslim or  Black or European white race...

The other side of the coin of course is comparing Europe with the USA.. where the US is more of an overall mix of cultures..

Quote from: Eighthman on June 23, 2016, 03:15:33 PM
Under the EU, Britain and other nations will cease to exist.  They will become mere aggregations of people with no particular language or culture - bound only by economic interests that their stagnant austerity programs cannot meet.

If the Brits want to help world peace, dump the EU, sign up with the EEU/SCO and push for a Eurasian union , 'between Lisbon and Vladivostok'.

*funbox sniffs the air , the cosmic joker tickles an mfb under the chin *

funbox

It appears to be Quite a surprise to the Establishment as relatively early on after the closing of the Polls; just after midnight there were early signs that there were more Votes to leave than to remain..and thru out the night it seems to have more or less stayed that way so far..

So unless there is a last two hour or so change in sentiment by mid morning in the UK, it looks like a leave..

The US stock Market took a huge 860 point decline within a 6 to 8 hr period so far..

The Dow Jones topped around 18130 an hour before (23.15 hrs) midnight and declined to about 17277 by around 5.30 am so far....

Will it go lower come the open of the FTSE and European Markets  from 7 to 8 am ? or recover..

with the British £ Pound making new lows since 1985..

Gold up to new highs since Dec 2015 low.

There is no doubt as much as many Brits may want to leave it could have a bad impact on the not just the UK but also Europe and the World economy..

Need to see what happens after the final results.. It maybe that the market plunged upon very early expectation...and it may have bottomed out come the final results..

But the Market has JUST broken May 19th Lows... that may see a much further decline to come, if not later in the day , within the coming weeks..

But It will be interesting to see what may happen from here on.

It may hold up to the  end of the month  or / into July 4th US Holidays...


There's talk about maybe another election in the next few months. !!!

It has just been suggested on the BBC at about 5 am that there is no way now that the remain can win..

It was showing a 52 % Leave V 48% remain..

That so far was about 17.2 million Leave V 16 Million Remain..at around 7 am UK time..

It was suggested that 48% of the people / Public  did NOT vote.

Its being suggested its an INDEPENDENCE DAY for the U.K.

Quote from: funbox on June 24, 2016, 04:42:54 AM
*funbox sniffs the air , the cosmic joker tickles an mfb under the chin *

funbox

Global Elite Resort to Voter Fraud to Prevent Brexit..

Look at some of the utter crap that some of the Authorities were up to..

bringing in the Police for someone wanting to use a Pen instead of the pencils supplied at the Poll station..

What a LOAD of utter pathetic burucratic nonsense.. 


Published on 23 Jun 2016
Paul Joseph Watson discusses BREXIT and how the elite are desperately trying to hold on to Britain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chTeYqMvU3o

Another major surprise...

Prime Minister David Cameron has resigned ! but will stay in office for a while to sort things out.

Now there is talk of Boris Johnson taking over his position who was recently the Mayor of London..


I did not know much if anything about his  past political background ..

But upon checking he was a MP for about 7 years prior to becoming Mayor..

But it  surprises me that he is being suggested to become PM.

The Weird thing is he is an American born in New York ! and his Grand Father was Turkish ancestry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson

Then what do we see is Donald Trump arriving in Scotland to his Golf Course / Hotel in the U.K early this morning just after the EU Vote had officially been Confirmed..and making a statement.

Watching the TV Coverage flicking thru all the events one after the other , all within a few hours..made it all like a staged event almost..even thou some parts seemed unexpected.

Although it all seems genuine..

I have to question could this also just another set up by the Elites...putting on a show to make the public believe..

Quote from: astr0144 on June 24, 2016, 06:07:36 AM
There is no doubt as much as many Brits may want to leave it could have a bad impact on the not just the UK but also Europe and the World economy.

I have kept out of this topic because I didn't want to intrude into what most people thought was a national problem, but now that this first act is over, I will say what I have been thinking about it.

This whole Brexit idea was a selfish and cowardly idea. If things are wrong with the way the EU works, why not fight to make them right instead of abandoning the ship like rats, ignoring the consequences that may bring to those that have been, for better or worse, their partners for many years? Why run away from a problem that was partly created by the UK in the last 43 years, the years that have seen the bigger changes in the way the system works.

Also, from what I could see on Euronews (the only news channel I watch), it looks like someone "forgot" that the UK is itself an union, and this Brexit thing may also be the end of that union, as Scotland and Northern Ireland preferred to stay in the EU but are forced to leave because they are part of the UK.

As I know nothing about international (or even national) economy, I cannot really comment on that, but to me it looks like living in a global market as we all do now, this decision will have global ramifications. Some may be good, some may be bad, but I'm sure that the people that control (as much as they can) the world economy will , again, be the victors.

PS: for those that were saying that TPTB were doing anything to make the UK remain, what does this result means? Does it mean that TPTB, after all, are not all powerful, or does it mean that what they really wanted was the Brexit and people fell for it?

You make some good or valid comments ArMaP..

I don't have all the answers..but I may also have consider along somethings that you suggest about had they planned to create a exit Brexit ?

and I have been considering this as a possible option during the whole lead up to it...

Are TPTB just playing their Chess Game..?

It maybe time for them to change the Arena / economy in their master plan.

Maybe creating the threat of Immigration, has made many of the Brits consider it a main concern to want to exit the EU if they believe that it will resolve it..and  believed that the EUs plan was to continue increasing it...

I do think this has become a HUGE threat as I had explained my thoughts on it  before..and created a lot more competition in the job and Housing Market etc..after we have had the 2008 economic recession..

FOR many they see it also as an insult.. being replaced by Foreign Workers..and that our own Govt did not have workers best interest..also housing and new rules  were changing British Culture..

or maybe the fact that the Govt ,now know many become more aware of what goes on via the Internet..may have some effects , more so than the Elites  had initially considered..in appearing to expose various issues more..with the parts of the failings in the EU..

or maybe they had created Alex Jones types to paint a gloomy picture of what seems to be going on..to encourage an exit in Brexit !

and maybe that they expected that a majority would vote to opt out..

sometimes it maybe that they use reverse  Psychology..

Its never easy to be sure as such things can be seen in varying ways....but I do think often the Elites think much more different to what the masses ever consider..

There is now talk other EU countries may opt out...
so we may see a chain reaction..over the next year or so..

Is it for the Worse or better ?

I AGREE that one other possibility maybe to have challenged the EU and its problems..rather than opt out..

There is always other options..

BUT it may also be very difficult to negotiate with 27 countries..and some maybe very hard to negotiate with..
or some want more control over others..Germany as an eg..

so maybe opting out if done for genuine reasons maybe a better easier option.. BUT did it have to happen so soon ?

I do think that the EU could have been good if ran the right way..
BUT Overall it appeared to have several flaws and not being done in the best interest  or right ways for certain things in favor to the UK.

IF TPTB are doing it for greed and are intending to crash the economy.. which I believe could be the case ..IF its true that they are doing it for their further gains in some other plan that they may have...

then that maybe their reasoning..

or it may just all be how its all worked out...and it maybe too hard to try to have created such a theory..and maybe the U.K just did not like the idea of many of the things that appeared to be happening..and just wanted to get out at the given opportunity..

But it is all very complex to really determine..

At the end of it all... It was NOT a Great overall majority that created the outcome ... so maybe it seems as unlikely obvious that such possible plans would work out in such a way to create an exit... if it was suggested as being a planned outcome

UNLESS the VOTES were rigged to make it look like a close outcome..and be less suspected as a planned outcome.

QuotePS: for those that were saying that TPTB were doing anything to make the UK remain, what does this result means? Does it mean that TPTB, after all, are not all powerful, or does it mean that what they really wanted was the Brexit and people fell for it?
/quote]

Quote from: astr0144 on June 24, 2016, 11:12:47 AM
Maybe creating the threat of Immigration has made many of the Brits consider it a main concern to want to exit the EU if they believe that it will resolve it..

One thing I found when I looked into UK/England population growth statistics was something I wasn't expecting, that the most spoken foreign language in England is not, like many people want us to believe, Arabic (that's in 6th place), it's Polish, with 1% of the population speaking it. Another thing is that, in the UK, most of the foreign-born residents are, as expected, from countries that were part of the British Empire, like India and Pakistan, but what I wasn't expecting was to see Poland on second place after India, with an estimated population of 790,000 people.

Why is nobody talking about a "Polish invasion"?

QuoteIts never easy to be sure..but I do think often the Elites think much more different to what the masses ever consider..

I think the elites are not as much in control as they wanted to, people do have more control on things than they think, but while they are Alex Joneses making people think they are fully controlled, they act as if they really are fully controlled and become more predictable.

One thing most people appear to forget or not know is that all the European organisations that exist today were the result of two wars that destroyed most of Europe, specially WWII.

As as been seen in many other occasions and places, when people are divided they are easily directed against each other, but when they work and live together they see that we are all the same, with the same desires and needs, and that borders are artificial things that keep us apart and make us look different.

Having cooperation between European countries was seen as a way of avoiding wars between them, turning military wars, at worst, into economic wars, but keeping things as peaceful as possible.

Division is never a good thing among people.

Without trying to study various facts in some detail, its hard to offer specifics..and that also depends if the Info we may use is correct or not..Can the figures be ever trusted..esp if supplied by what maybe a Corrupt Govt !

It may just be that ALL Govts are corrupt to some degree no matter what !...

In somethings one can only try to go of what they seem to recall thru out their life experience...and my view may vary from someone 10 to 20 years older or younger..

But my own thoughts had been that since WW2...during My Parents days.. since they had their children along with all other parents of their day...MOST appeared as White English Citizens .

There had also been later a lot Scottish and Irish people arrive..

Then we did have an influx of Pakistan and Indian and later Black People..which steadily continued to grow..But it did not seem too bad say 20 yrs ago..

In the 1980s... there became an economic crisis and many businesses were closed and many Professions were no longer in demand such as in the Engineering or building trades...

and the workplace began to disappear as it once was with big factories..being replaces by many smaller type wharehouse / computer businesses..many became unemployed and has less children...where as in the pre generation.. populations seemed larger .. more children around.3 to 6 in a average family. in the next generation there seemed many less..

so i believe the origional families had declined.. and since been replaced by foreign workers...

For those who built the UK... and fought the war.. It seems an insult to them..as they cannot look after their own..

House prices soared.. and less could afford to buy a house..
and still lived at home with parents..in later yrs..

Good jobs became hard to obtain..

But since then... there seemed a much larger invasion of such races along with many other Europeans..

There have been issues with Polish concerns. maybe 10 yrs ago..PRIOR to the more recent Muslim concerns..

The Polish were being taken in and were filling a LOT of Jobs that in better times Brits would not take..and later did seem a threat as they often took lower paid work that started to lower wages..But some suggested more employers took them on as also they were prepared to work harder / longer hrs for less.. and this was lowering wages..

in 2008 after the crash Jobs became a concern but were often filled by Other nationalities willing to take lower wages and work longer hrs..so it became harder to even get lower paid work when times became tough....

QuoteOne thing I found when I looked into UK/England population growth statistics was something I wasn't expecting, that the most spoken foreign language in England is not, like many people want us to believe, Arabic (that's in 6th place), it's Polish, with 1% of the population speaking it. Another thing is that, in the UK, most of the foreign-born residents are, as expected, from countries that were part of the British Empire, like India and Pakistan, but what I wasn't expecting was to see Poland on second place after India, with an estimated population of 790,000 people.

Why is nobody talking about a "Polish invasion"?

What you say or suggest may offer  solutions to such issues..

I am sure that it is possible to be ran in a correct and positive way.. but for some reasons.. it seems as if someone or some organisation with in such a potential system.. has not made it work correctly as yet..to overall satisfy the Countries Govt or peoples needs..

I suspect mainly as there is some corruption or unfairness involved. or  not  good enough effective solutions or management to run it for the best..

it maybe too many countries and people / cultures etc create too many problems its hard to really have the right solution..

Quote
One thing most people appear to forget or not know is that all the European organisations that exist today were the result of two wars that destroyed most of Europe, specially WWII.

As as been seen in many other occasions and places, when people are divided they are easily directed against each other, but when they work and live together they see that we are all the same, with the same desires and needs, and that borders are artificial things that keep us apart and make us look different.

Having cooperation between European countries was seen as a way of avoiding wars between them, turning military wars, at worst, into economic wars, but keeping things as peaceful as possible.

Division is never a good thing among people.

Today is a great day because it is a turning point in history.  Today might be the day when the catalytic event of Brexit began a march to world peace. Why? Because the US dominated/strongly influenced EU began to fall apart.  In it's vacuum, a new alliance may arise:

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160605/1040810928/merkel-eu-russia-cooperation.html

A Eurasian free trade zone from "Lisbon to Vladivostok' - that could shut out US warmongers interference.   This was suggested by Putin six years ago and is one big reason why he has to be demonized in western media and why trouble must be stirred up with China. US elites know this could happen and the military- industrial complex President Eisenhower warned about is defeated.

Oh, and has anyone ever thought that if Aliens have approached the US privately at some point in the past, they now could look over our world and say, "Screw these idiots, we're 'picking a new horse in the race".

And that 'new horse' for Disclosure and interface with humans might be...........Russia/China.  Of course, they have to neutralize the US first, to get it out of the way and prevent its interference.  Perhaps that's where we are now. I hope my 401K will survive.

Quote from: Eighthman on June 24, 2016, 03:51:24 PM
Oh, and has anyone ever thought that if Aliens have approached the US privately at some point in the past, they now could look over our world and say, "Screw these idiots, we're 'picking a new horse in the race".

No, I never thought of that, and one of the reasons is that that's an US centred point of view. :)

It's a US centered point of view because US hegemony rules the globe, as China and Russia are painfully aware.  Disclosure cannot take place as long as the US can react by screaming "Invasion!!!"  or creating an Alien false flag - as they did with false flags in Iraq, Syria and Vietnam- for the purpose of continuing their global dominance.  I suggest reading "Confessions Of An Economic Hitman" - a best seller that the NY Times and others refused to review.  When outright war or assassination doesn't work, there are always "speaking fees" or corporate director payments ( for nothing more than showing up occasionally) to control foreign politicians.


If one were to determine which nations would be culturally most favorable to Disclosure, it would be a near match for the BRICS alliance.  And as for my US- centric outlook, I am not favoring its continuance on the world stage.  Russia is right about seeking a multipolar world. We might be on track for Big Things.

What I meant was why would Aliens follow an US centred point of view? Why choose just 4% of the world population?

The US was and (temporarily) is the strongest economic and military power on earth.  In addition, we have an immigrant culture together with leading the world on Civil Rights. So far, so good. And (very importantly) the US had the first A-bomb. 

However, this has 'gone south' because of greed and corruption.  There are better alternatives.

Quote from: Eighthman on June 24, 2016, 08:08:29 PM
The US was and (temporarily) is the strongest economic and military power on earth.  In addition, we have an immigrant culture together with leading the world on Civil Rights. So far, so good. And (very importantly) the US had the first A-bomb.

The US is only a small part of the whole world, so I don't see any of those reasons as good for being considered the only party to be contacted by hypothetical Aliens.

But, although I disagree, I understand what you mean. :)

sounds like a bunch of folks want a re-do....wonder if they'll get it


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/britons-split-after-seismic-eu-vote/ar-AAhBY7D?li=BBnb7Kz
AFP
by David WILLIAMS with Deborah COLE in Berlin
2 hrs ago


More than a million Britons pleaded for a second referendum Saturday as Britain's seismic vote to abandon the EU split the nation after pounding world markets, toppling the prime minister and raising the threat of a breakup of the island nation.
In a sign of the fissures exposed by the June 23 vote, 1.2 million people signed a petition on the official government website by late morning calling for a repeat vote -- more than 12 times the 100,000 signatures required for a proposal to be discussed in the lower house of parliament.

Unprecedented traffic forced the site to be taken out of action at one point, a parliamentary spokesman said.

A parliamentary committee, which can put forward petitions for debate by lawmakers, will consider the proposal Tuesday.

"I am worried, really sick for my children's prospects," said Lindsey Brett, a 57-year-old secretarial worker.

"I was expecting a 'Remain' vote. I did not think we would come out," she said in central London.

Britons, many worried about immigration and financial insecurity, cast aside Prime Minister David Cameron's warnings of isolation and economic disaster and voted 52 percent-48 percent in favour of "Brexit" in Thursday's referendum.

Their decision pounded sterling and global stock markets. Moody's cut Britain's credit rating outlook to "negative", warning of the economic threat to the country.

Cameron announced Friday he would resign by October and let his successor lead the exit negotiations under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which sets out a two-year time-frame to leave.

European powers called for Britain to be shown the door quickly as they grappled with the impending loss of one of the world's top economies, the first defection in the bloc's 60-year history.

Brexit negotiations must take place "quickly and swiftly", EU Commissioner Pierre Moscovici told Britain's Radio 4 on Saturday.

- Quick divorce -
"I do not understand why the British government needs until October to decide whether to send the divorce letter to Brussels," Juncker told German broadcaster ARD on Friday evening.

"I would like it immediately," he added.

"It is not an amicable divorce but it was also not an intimate love affair."

Foreign ministers of the six original EU members -- Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg -- gathered in Berlin for the first in a series of emergency meetings over the next week triggered by Britain's decision.

"We join together in saying that this process must begin as soon as possible so we don't end up in an extended limbo period but rather can focus on the future of Europe and the work toward it," said German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier as he entered the meeting at a lakeside villa.

The Franco-German axis at the heart of the bloc, which was born out of a determination to forge lasting peace after two world wars, will propose "concrete solutions" to make the EU more effective, French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault told AFP.

He, too, called on London to move more swiftly.

EU leaders will open a two-day Brussels summit on the crisis on Tuesday.

In an early sign of the Brexit fallout in Brussels, Britain's European commissioner for financial services, Jonathan Hill, said he would stand down.

"I don't believe it is right that I should carry on as the British commissioner as though nothing had happened," he said in a statement.

Britain faced a historic break-up threat, too, as Scotland stood aghast at the prospect of being dragged out of the 28-nation European Union when more than 60 percent of its people voted to stay in.

"A second independence referendum is clearly an option that requires to be on the table," First Minister Nicola Sturgeon declared after an emergency meeting of Scotland's parliament, which agreed to start to draw up legislation that could enable such a vote once a decision is taken.

- Surprise, regret -

Scotland is seeking "immediate discussions" with its EU partners to try to protect its position in the bloc, she said.

Scots backed staying in Britain in their last referendum in 2014.

The EU referendum, the culmination of an often poisonous campaign, revealed divides across British society, including between what The Independent newspaper called "those doing well from globalisation and those 'left behind' and not seeing the benefits in jobs or wages".

Young people, graduates, and big cities tended to favour "Remain". Elder, less educated people and rural populations were more likely to back "Brexit".

Britain's rejection of the EU is being seen as a victory for the anti-establishment rhetoric of the Brexit campaign, a feature of growing populism across Europe.

"Take a bow, Britain!" eurosceptic newspaper the Daily Mail wrote across its front page on Saturday.

"It was the day the quiet people of Britain rose up against an arrogant, out-of-touch political class and a contemptuous Brussels elite," it added.

The British vote will stoke fears of a domino-effect of exit votes in eurosceptic member states that could imperil the integrity of the bloc.

Dutch far-right MP Geert Wilders and French National Front leader Marine Le Pen immediately called for referendums on EU membership in their own countries.


.................

and then  the first domino yells ..me next!


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/scotland-independence-vote-eu-brexit_us_576e65e2e4b0dbb1bbbaba98?section=


First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said that, following Brexit, it was now "clearly an option."
06/25/2016 07:13 am ET

Britain is broken beyond repair — and the worst is yet to come.

There is no doubt this could become very serious if it leads to further unexpected panic...

what we saw on June 23rd/24th was a much more dramatic effect on the World Markets and Currencies than most would have ever expected..

it was however a gift for those trader speculators who expected it.. as the Market literally sold off just after the Polls ended at 10 pm uk time...  The Markets then close for one hour to 11 pm UK time.. and it topped out at 11.15 pm 23.15 hrs (18.15 hrs EST New York time) and just sold off 860 points on the Dow Jones..for 6 to 7 hrs... they would had made a HUGE profit on that..with very little risk...BUT the Finance markets had increased the value of some of the derivatives or margins to have traded them..

I was amazed how quickly the markets started selling even before 1/4 of the Votes had come out ... then as the results were televised ever time they did an update... and it was showing still in favor of "Leave" the markets sold off again and again..

I thought that there was a good chance the markets would go sidewides or up and down over about 4 hrs ....but it didnt..

There  is already suggestion that Banks maybe under threat and also we have to be careful that they do not bring in restrictions on what anyone can withdraw even as early as this week..especially if the markets go down again between Mid Night Sunday when they open in the USA to before 9 am Monday Morning..

I would advise any one to withdraw enough money to last for at least a month or two just incase..and buy some food stocks...

no one knows what may happen..

My next main cycle comes in Just after the US July 4th Holiday.. so we may see the market recover to then....

if it continues down to then... then it may still be a even worse decline..

(https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/VAjLegZK7TrYgG.dAdfbLQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-GB/homerun/businessinsider.uk/e791cab930a005e4bcfd01570529b651)


Britain has officially voted to tear itself away from the European Union.
Markets are in crisis mode after the revelation that the UK is a broken nation. And the worst is yet to come.
Global stocks are plunging, the pound is getting annihilated, and bank and company CEOs are doing their best not to freak out.
Markets hate uncertainty, and while everywhere from the Bank of England to publicly traded banks had "contingency plans" in case of a British exit from the EU, or Brexit, it seemed that most observers were expecting Brits to choose Remain.
But it is not just the immediate market fallout that Britain has to worry about — it is the future of our sociopolitical landscape. Britain is divided, and the political contagion to follow not only threatens to wreck the European Union as a whole — it could spread across the globe.
First, let's look at how bad the markets will get
Bank of England Governor Mark Carney said the central bank was "ready to provide" more than £250 billion, or $344 billion, of "additional capital to its normal operations." Essentially the BOE is ready to prop up the UK's financial system to protect it from the direct impacts of the Brexit.
The central bank wanted to calm the markets. Just look at the pound: At one point it was hitting a 30-year low and was trading worse than on "Black Wednesday." Though it has slightly recovered, it is still down by 8%:

(https://s3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/vliTaxjszeQs2y28YefDaA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-GB/homerun/businessinsider.uk/c2881c40c7afeebb63571346dd6816e6)
poundvolatility1
Fallout the computer game
At the same time, European stocks are falling off a cliff; it is no wonder the central bank is trying to calm everyone down and say it will be prepared to step in:

(https://s.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/t4PLiac1dU1jkMvKpAf4ow--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-GB/homerun/businessinsider.uk/c12b3396051999b3bd0e8b01a83c92fa)
euromarketseuref
Fallout the computer game
The forecasts were unanimous: Brexit would wreck the economy, according to the UK Treasury, the International Monetary Fund, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, several independent research houses, and the banks.
S&P, the ratings agency, previously warned that a Brexit would hurt the economy and said a Brexit would threaten Britain's AAA rating. The lower the rating, the more expensive it is for the country to borrow money.
The Leave campaign dismissed those forecasts as being part of what it called "Project Fear," which it said was designed to scare people into sticking with the status quo. Usually that works. British referendums in years gone by pretty much always moved toward the status quo option with just days left until voting day.
But not this time, and this is why the results of this referendum highlight just how fractured Britain is.
Underneath the market chaos, we have a shattered sociopolitical landscape
As well as having a prolonged period of market chaos — most banks say the most seismic shifts will happen within six months — Britain can also look forward to an incredibly divided nation.
The results showed some glaring problems. If, say, 70% of the nation voted one way and 30% voted the other way, it would be a true, solid majority vote.
In this referendum, however, the results were startling — Britain is split right down the middle:
Leave: 51.9% with 17,410,742 votes.
Remain: 48.1% with 16,141,241 votes.
The turnout was 72.2% out of 46,499,537 people who were entitled to take part in the vote. This is a record number for a UK poll.
Perhaps most worryingly is the north-south divide. This is what the BBC has on its referendum results page:
UK map divide
Fallout the computer game
A note out Friday by Peter Oppenheimer and his team at Goldman Sachs said: "The domestic political fallout in the UK is likely to be significant. The strength, composition and leadership of the government are likely to be uncertain, at least initially. Such political uncertainties may further complicate how a definitive referendum outcome is translated into a formal procedure."
UK Prime Minister David Cameron has resigned, and his replacement will be selected in an unusual way.
For the first time, Britain's prime minister will not be chosen by a general election, or by MPs, but by party activists — as the New Statesman reported back in February.
cameronresigns1
Fallout the computer gameThe new prime minister will be chosen by a Conservative Party leadership election. This election will have two parts:
First, Conservative MPs elect two candidates.
After these two candidates have been chosen, a postal ballot will be sent out to all Conservative Party members on a "one member, one vote" basis.
The winner of this vote will be the next prime minister. That means 149,800 Tory activists (according to the latest House of Commons Library data) — about 0.2% of the UK population — will choose the next leader of the UK.
This will surely bring about Scotland's plight for independence in another referendum. The most recent Scottish referendum, in 2014, was a close call — 55% voted against breaking away from the UK while 45% voted for independence.
This week Scotland overwhelmingly voted against a Brexit — 62% voting for Remain compared with 38% who voted for Leave — but the country is being forcibly dragged out of the EU because the UK as a whole voted to leave.
Try telling Scottish voters that the country will be ruled by a party and a prime minister they voted overwhelmingly against. It is no surprise that Scottish National Party leader Nicola Sturgeon said the SNP would "begin to prepare the legislation to allow a new referendum to take place" before the UK leaves the European Union.
And what follows? More uncertainty, more political, economic, and legal upheaval, and therefore more financial devastation.
Britain's main opposition party, Labour, is having another crisis in its leadership. Its leader Jeremy Corbyn, who was elected only last year in a landslide victory, is encountering a coup.
Labour MPs Margaret Hodge and Ann Coffey have submitted a motion of no confidence in Corbyn, in a letter sent to John Cryer, chairman of the Parliamentary Labour Party. It will result in a discussion about Corbyn's leadership at the next PLP meeting on Monday. Fifty-five Labour MPs are expected to call for the left-wing leader to quit in the letter, according to PoliticsHome.
Britain's political makeup is at a breaking point.
The Brexit contagion
The political chaos does not stop with Britain. The contagion the EU faces from the British vote for a Brexit could rip apart the 28-nation bloc.
In May, Greg Case and Jackie Ineke at Morgan Stanley put together an intricate table titled "EU Exit Scorecard: Where Might Exit Pressure Emerge Next?" It was designed to show, in order, the countries most likely to pip for an exit from the EU:
exitscorecard
Fallout the computer game
It was not the first time Morgan Stanley had warned of a "Brexit contagion."
In May, Simon Wells and his team at HSBC also released a report saying that while "a UK vote to leave the EU could dampen European economic activity," the real political threat came from "referendum contagion" spreading further across Europe, handing more power to extreme-right, nationalist, and Eurosceptic parties.
Also this week, HSBC warned again that "Eurosceptic opposition parties may become more vocal about the example set by the UK."
"In the UK referendum, the key arguments for the Leave campaign essentially boil down to questions over migration and sovereignty, which are concerns for much of the EU electorate," added chief European economist Karen Ward and chief global economist Janet Henry from HSBC.
So what's next?
So first of all, expect market turmoil to happen for some time. This is mainly because there is uncertainty over what will happen with the UK's Brexit transition. Oppenheimer and his team at Goldman Sachs said:
"Article 50 of the EU Treaties gives the legal framework for withdrawal. And the EU Treaties provide for a 2-year process of withdrawal once Article 50 is activated. But several uncertainties still apply and these are likely to be exacerbated by political upheaval.
"Article 50 sets no timeframe for when the PM needs to notify the European Council of the planned withdrawal — at which point Article 50 would be activated. This is important because (a) notification determines when the 2-year window on withdrawal starts and (b) parts of the Leave campaign wishing to retain access to the Single Market may want to use this procedural uncertainty to extract further concessions from the rest of Europe.
"In our view, the rest of the EU is unlikely to allow the UK to extract concessions from a further renegotiation by exploiting these uncertainties. The domestic political fallout in the UK is likely to be significant. The strength, composition and leadership of the government are likely to be uncertain, at least initially. Such political uncertainties may further complicate how a definitive referendum outcome is translated into a formal procedure."
The referendum itself was advisory, rather than legally binding. Cameron had indicated before the referendum that he would respond to a Leave decision by beginning the legal process of withdrawal.
But above all, it looks as if Britain will be battling to keep itself together, let alone remove itself from the EU and the wave of political fallout could cause huge ramification across the union, the continent, and later the globe.
After all, look at what just dropped into my inbox while I was writing



https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/britain-broken-beyond-repair-worst-125318669.html

Quote
sounds like a bunch of folks want a re-do....wonder if they'll get it



Britons split after seismic EU vote

More than a million Britons pleaded for a second referendum Saturday as Britain's seismic vote to abandon the EU split the nation after pounding world markets, toppling the prime minister and raising the threat of a breakup of the island nation.

From what I understand of the situation, it's even possible that, as Cameron was the one saying that he would follow the referendum's decision, his replacement changes things and, seeing that the referendum is not binding, says that that was a Cameron's decision, not a party decision, and ignores the referendum's results, which will create a different instability.

HOORAY FOR GREAT BRITAIN!! When doing business collectively/EU becomes more about the controlling and the money than about the people who are doing the business, business for the sake of business flounders. Many understood that Brit being in the EU was not a good thing for Brit anyway, and enough of those with understanding voted to make it happen! Good for them!!

It will take a little time for all of the kinks to be worked out, but Britain was doing fine before the EU, and they certainly will be doing even better after the EU exit!

The United States of America could very possibly find itself in the same situation with the United Nations one of these days, and similarly choose to leave it!! :)

Quote from: rdunk on June 25, 2016, 11:03:56 PM
It will take a little time for all of the kinks to be worked out, but Britain was doing fine before the EU, and they certainly will be doing even better after the EU exit!

Then why did they insist in being accepted?

QuoteThe United States of America could very possibly find itself in the same situation with the United Nations one of these days, and similarly choose to leave it!! :)

That's a completely different situation.

Everything That Goes Wrong Will Be Blamed On Brexit

Paul Watson from Infowars comments on his thoughts on the outcome of Brexit and how he envisions attempts by those that were in opposition to attempt to either reverse the decision or create problems and make them blamed on leaving the EU.

He suggested that it was mainly down to the poorer areas & people who have seen their lives badly effected by past things in the past in the various 3 or so recessions that there have been since 1987..2000 and 2007/8...and the Govts decisions to move industries elsewhere abroad and bring in severe immigration..that made jobs even harder to obtain..

Life's decisions are never easy or rarely straight forward..and its hard to try to determine what maybe right , wrong or that maybe seen as forms of attempted manipulation with regards to it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrKhQyL_wgk


                      --------------------------

The Latest: UK lawmaker wants Parliament to overturn EU vote


A British opposition lawmaker says Parliament should stop the "madness" and overturn the result of a referendum calling for Britain to leave the European Union


The Latest on Britain's historic vote to leave the European Union (all times local):
7:25 p.m.
A British opposition lawmaker says Parliament should stop the "madness" and overturn the result of a referendum calling for Britain to leave the European Union.
Labour legislator David Lammy says Thursday's national vote was non-binding and "our sovereign Parliament needs to now vote on whether we should quit the EU."
He says some "leave" supporters now regret their votes and Parliament should vote on Britain's EU membership. He said "we can stop this madness and bring this nightmare to an end. ... Let us not destroy our economy on the basis of lies and the hubris of ('leave' leader) Boris Johnson."
Constitutional experts say Parliament cannot easily ignore the will of the people. Alan Renwick, deputy director of University College London's Constitution Unit, says "in legal theory that is possible. In practice, that is absolutely not possible."
___
6:15 p.m.
Britain's vote to leave the European Union has reverberated through London's boisterous LGBT pride festival.
The flags of European nations flew at the annual Pride in London parade, which ended with a rally in Trafalgar Square.
London Mayor Sadiq Khan told the crowd of thousands that Europeans in London are "our friends, our families and our neighbors."
Khan says "I recognize the huge contribution you make to our city, you are welcome here. I make you this promise as your mayor. That won't change."
Voters in London overwhelmingly supported staying in the EU, but a majority outside the capital voted to leave.
Belgian Georges Peters, who was flying his country's flag at the parade, said he was "very disappointed about the vote. I think this is bad for the economy and it's important that we stand together."
Antaine O'Briain from Ireland said he was "shocked and horrified" at the result of the Thursday's vote.
___
5:55 p.m.
France's economy minister is calling for a new, more transparent plan for the European Union that would be submitted to a popular vote.
Emmanuel Macron is accusing Britain's Conservative Party of taking the rest of the EU hostage with a referendum staged for domestic reasons that now is threatening to torpedo European unity. His unusually outspoken comments came at a debate Saturday at the Institute for Political Science in Paris on how European can cope with Britain's vote to leave the 28-nation EU.
Macron says "If we made a mistake ... it's to have let a member state take hostage the European project in a unilateral manner ... and therefore to have choreographed these last few months the possibility of the crumbling of Europe."
___
4:10 p.m.
Britain's vote to leave the European Union has spurred a surge in interest in obtaining Irish citizenship from people in Northern Ireland.
The Post Office in Northern Ireland says it has "seen an unusually high number of people in Northern Ireland seeking Irish passport applications."
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, but most people born there can also claim citizenship in the neighboring Republic of Ireland — an EU member. While Britain as a whole voted to leave the EU in Thursday's referendum, a majority of voters in Northern Ireland opted to remain.
Irish citizenship has generally been taken up by members of Northern Ireland's Irish nationalist Roman Catholic community, rather than by Protestants who identify as British.
But in a sign of how the referendum has turned politics on its head, one of Northern Ireland's leading Protestant politicians, Ian Paisley Jr., tweeted: "My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one."
___
3:50 p.m.
The European commissioner from Latvia, who is now responsible for overseeing the EU's financial services sector, says his "priority is to maintain financial stability in markets."
The EU's euro commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis says he hopes "to live up to tasks entrusted to me."
Dombrovskis wrote on Twitter that "I highly value the work" of Jonathan Hill, the British representative on the EU Executive Commission who stepped down Saturday, saying he was disappointed by the British referendum result.
European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker immediately transferred Hill's responsibilities to Dombrovskis, costing Britain a key voice in a sector that is hugely important to London, whose status as Europe's financial capital is threatened by Britain's EU exit.
___
3:45 p.m.
Italy's finance minister is urging the European Union to do more than "concern itself only about banks. In an interview with Milan newspaper Corriere della Sera Saturday, Pier Carlo Padoan says it's time to think the "unthinkable."
He says "deep dissatisfaction" over immigration, security and slow economic growth could combine for a further push toward disintegration of the EU bloc. Italy has been pushing for more EU action to encourage economic growth.
Padoan says it's possible Britain's EU exit could cause smaller growth in Italy.
___
3:40 p.m.
Iran's Foreign Ministry says in a statement that the British people's decision to leave the European Union will have no effect on Tehran's approach toward the U.K.
The statement, carried by Iran's English language Press TV on Saturday, said "Iran respects the British people's vote to leave the European Union."
An official in President Hassan Rouhani's office, Hamid Aboutalebi, had called it a "big earthquake" and part of the "domino" collapse of the EU.
Iran's government is still suspicious of Britain over its role in backing a 1953 coup. A British-Iranian woman held by the Revolutionary Guard faces allegations of working toward the "soft toppling" of the government.
___
Associated Press writer Amir Vahdat in Tehran, Iran contributed.
___
3:15 p.m.
French President Francois Hollande is holding exceptional meetings with the leaders of France's political parties, as EU leaders try to keep the union together after Britain's vote to leave.
Far right leader Marine Le Pen called for a referendum on France's EU membership following Thursday's British vote. Hollande's administration dismissed the call, but Le Pen is currently more popular in opinion polls and hopes to replace Hollande in presidential elections next year.
Hollande convened a string of meetings Saturday with his own Socialist Party, former President Nicolas Sarkozy's conservative opposition party The Republicans, the far right National Front, the Greens and parties on the far left and center.
France is a founding member of what is now the EU, but French voters rejected an EU constitution in 2005 that would have enshrined closer unity, and France's heartland has a lot of the same frustration at economic stagnation and migration that drove the British vote to quit the EU.
___
2:25 p.m.
Danish Prime Minister Lars Loekke Rasmussen says Britain's exit "will echo for years to come and change the Europe as we know it."
He says "the EU must stay away from areas where countries do it best themselves" and pay attention to popular skepticism across the continent.
After a government meeting Saturday to discuss the British vote, he wrote on Facebook that the government's priority was "to defend Danish interests in the upcoming divorce."
Loekke Rasmussen said Friday the Scandinavian country that joined the European Union in 1973 at the same time as Britain, has "no plans to hold a referendum on this basic matter."
___
2:15 p.m.
European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker says he regrets the resignation of Britain's EU commissioner, Jonathan Hill.
Hill was responsible for the EU's oversight of financial services — a hugely important industry to London.
Juncker said that "I wanted the British commissioner to be in charge of financial services, as a sign of my confidence in the United Kingdom's membership of the European Union. To my great regret, this situation is now changing."
He said he would transfer Hill's responsibilities to Valdis Dombrovskis, European commissioner from Latvia.
___
2:10 p.m.
The European Union's six founding nations are urging a quick British departure from the bloc and are pledging to address divergent attitudes toward the EU from its 27 remaining member nations.
Foreign ministers of Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg met in Berlin on Saturday and said in a statement that they want Britain to quickly invoke the article in the EU charter allowing it to start negotiations on departure.
Regarding the other members, they said "We have to find better ways of dealing with these different levels" of commitment to closer European unity. Founding nations want to increase political and economic cooperation but some newer nations are wary of giving up more sovereignty.
"We are aware that discontent with the functioning of the EU as it is today is manifest in parts of our societies. We take this very seriously and are determined to make the EU work better for all our citizens," it said.
___
2:00 p.m.
France's foreign minister is hoping Britain can name a new prime minister in the coming days to speed up its departure from the European Union.
That timeframe is highly unrealistic given the political turmoil in Britain. Instead it is likely to take months to name a replacement to Prime Minister David Cameron, who is resigning and wants his successor to handle the departure negotiations.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said Saturday "they must designate a new prime minister, which would certainly require several days." He was speaking in Berlin alongside counterparts from the five other founding members of the European Union, as EU leaders try to keep the project from falling apart after British voters chose Thursday to leave.
___
2:00 p.m.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel says it "shouldn't take forever" for Britain to deliver formal notification that it wants to leave the European Union but is making clear that the matter is in London's hands.
Merkel said Saturday at a news conference in Potsdam, outside Berlin: "To be honest, it shouldn't take forever, that's right — but I would not fight over a short period of time."
The German leader said she is seeking a "objective, good" climate in talks on Britain's exit from the EU and that there's no need to make deterrence a priority.
Merkel said that there is "no need to be particularly nasty in any way in the negotiations; they must be conducted properly."
___
1:55 p.m.
An online petition seeking a second referendum on a British exit from the Europe Union has drawn more than 1 million names, a measure of the extraordinary divisiveness of Thursday's vote to leave the 28-nation bloc.
The online petition site hosted by the House of Commons website crashed Friday under the weight of the activity as officials said they'd seen unprecedented interest in the measure.
Online petitions — which take little effort and are easy to game — are poor measures of popular opinion, but any petition which draws more than 100,000 names must be considered for debate in Parliament.
In the short term, demands for a rerun are likely to go nowhere given that Britain's "leave" camp won by more than 1 million votes in a high-turnout vote.
___
1:50 p.m.
Britain's representative on the EU's executive body says he is resigning because it would not be right to carry on after the U.K. vote to leave the bloc.
Jonathan Hill, Britain's EU commissioner, says he's very disappointed by the referendum result, but "what is done cannot be undone."
Hill says in a statement that he will work with EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker to ensure there is an "orderly handover."
Hill says he started his job skeptical of the EU but leaves it "certain that, despite its frustrations, our membership was good for our place in the world and good for our economy."
___
1:00 p.m.
British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn says Britain must react "calmly and rationally" to the divisive EU referendum campaign.
Corbyn, whose Labour Party backed a vote to stay in the bloc, says the areas that voted most strongly to leave are "communities that have effectively been abandoned" by economic change and the austerity policies of Britain's Conservative government.
He told a meeting in London Saturday that politicians needed to take seriously voters' concerns about immigration, which led many to back a British exit from the 28-nation EU.
Many Labour lawmakers strongly backed "remain" and accuse the socialist Corbyn, a longtime critic of the EU, of failing to rally party supporters behind staying in the bloc. Several are trying to rally support behind a bid to unseat Corbyn.
___
12:55 p.m.
Luxembourg's foreign minister says Britain needs to quickly start negotiations with the European Union on its exit from the trade bloc.
Speaking Saturday in Berlin after meeting with other top European diplomats, Jean Asselborn said he hoped there would be no "cat and mouse" game now and that Britain would invoke Article 50 of the EU charter, which allows for a country to leave.
"There must be clarity," Asselborn told reporters. "The people have spoken and we need to implement this decision."
He added that once outside the bloc, Britain would be a "third country" — the EU term for non-members — in terms of trade agreements but emphasized that was "not meant negatively."
___
12:50 p.m.
Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon says Scotland will launch immediate talks with European Union nations and institutions to find a way to remain in the bloc despite Britain's vote to leave.
Sturgeon says voters in Scotland gave "emphatic" backing to remaining in the bloc. A majority of voters in more-populous England opted to leave.
After meeting with her Cabinet she said "we will seek to enter into immediate discussion" with the rest of the EU.
She says a new referendum on Scottish independence from the United Kingdom is "very much on the table."
___
12:40 p.m.
European foreign ministers are urging quick negotiations on Britain's departure from the EU to avoid prolonged financial and political insecurity for the continent.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said "there is a certain urgency ... so that we don't have a period of uncertainty, with financial consequences, political consequences."
He spoke in Berlin on Saturday alongside counterparts from the other five founding members of what has become the EU — Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. They also spoke of the need for a speedy renegotiation.
He also urged the remaining 27 EU countries to return to "the spirit of the founders" of European unity, forged to prevent conflict via trade after World War II. "It is up to us to recreate this spirit," he said, noting all the European countries that subsequently joined after overthrowing dictatorships and embracing democracy.
___
12:20 p.m.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier says negotiations on British exit should begin "as soon as possible" but adds that "intensive European discussions" are needed.
Speaking after a meeting in Berlin with foreign ministers of the other five founding members of the EU, Steinmeier there is a need to "show the people of Europe that Europe is important, and not only important but able to carry out its work."
He also called for Britain to engage in talks sooner rather than later. He says: "We understand and respect the result and understand that Great Britain will now concentrate on Great Britain," but adds that Britain as a responsibility to work with the EU on exit terms.
__
10:05 a.m.
French President Francois Hollande says the British vote to leave the European Union poses questions "for the whole planet."
Hollande vowed Saturday to maintain relations with Britain, notably concerning migrants crossing between the two countries and military and economic cooperation.
Speaking after a meeting in Paris with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, Hollande said: "For the entire planet there is a question, what will happen?"
He called for an orderly separation between Britain and the EU after Thursday's historic vote to exit the bloc, formed after two world wars to prevent new conflict via trade cooperation.
Hollande, whose country was a founding pillar of European unity, is holding emergency meetings Saturday with leaders of France's political parties as EU leaders try to keep the bloc from unravelling after the British vote.
___
08:30 a.m.
Top diplomats from the European Union's original six founding nations are meeting in Berlin for hastily arranged talks following Britain's stunning vote to leave the bloc.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier says it is critical to see the vote as a wakeup call. He was heading into meetings Saturday with his counterparts from France, Netherlands, Italy, Belgium and Luxembourg.
Steinmeier says EU politicians must listen "to the expectations of the European governments but also to the expectations of the people."
He cautioned against rash decisions, saying that "it's totally clear that in times like these one should neither be hysterical nor fall into paralysis."
Steinmeier's office says the meeting is one of many conversations now taking place, and shouldn't be seen as "an exclusive format."

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-france-says-british-vote-echoes-across-planet-090843248--finance.html

if anyone has a large enough cookie cutter , I know of a certain capitol city that wishes to move to Scotland.

funbox

anyone want to take a guess at why Camron resigned, when he said he would continue, and why he has delayed  initiating article 50 until October?

funbox

o and why his wife was standing 10 feet away in solidarity, whilst he was giving his resignation speech ? :D

*chokes up *

funbox

It maybe  hard to say if Cameron's decision was wrong to do what he did by resigning on the day..I would had thought that maybe he should have at least took the weekend to consider..

The markets had already crashed...so has  his decision helped calm them falling further so soon...

What puzzled me about Cameron is that he had initially seemed to indicate it maybe best to leave the EU.. maybe 8 to 6 months or so to  even 8 weeks ago I think... then he changed his view..

what he said back in Nov 2015..based on his demands to the EU..so it may appear he did make a suggestion to initially indicate it..and maybe it was a genuine statement..and depended how the Other EU leaders reacted to his demands..

I can only assume that they did as in the last 4 weeks leading to it his views had changed..

Quote
November 2015..
David Cameron will issue a dramatic warning to fellow EU leaders this week that he may have to recommend a UK exit from the European Union if they reject his demands for reform.

Turning up the pressure on the other 27 EU heads of state, the prime minister will formally table his list of demands – including a four-year ban on EU migrants claiming in-work benefits after entering the UK – in a letter to European Council president Donald Tusk on Tuesday. It will mark the start of months of detailed negotiations involving senior representatives of all EU governments, ahead of the promised in/out referendum on UK membership before the end of 2017.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/07/david-cameron-exit-warning-eu-reform

I think that alone for many Brits was NOT good enough..There was suggestions that many Immigrants were getting many benefits that even some of the UK citizens could not get..

So I am suspicious of the whole thing at the moment..

Also if there is any chance that the decision could be opposed and changed and he knows that is maybe a possibility..again why would he do it so soon.

UNLESS that maybe what happens next in part of the plan ! and he then becomes reinstated if another referendum does take place and the outcome changes....

IT would NOT surprise me if such a thing is possible that the decision becomes challenged and  then another Referendum  takes place and the outcome changed.

It is being suggested that the outcome is NOT Binding...
if so can it be challenged for a 2nd vote..

Was this one just a tester  to get a idea ..so maybe the experts can spin it again in what ever way they want it to go..

Maybe we will get to know next week if it was a final outcome or not !

QuoteLabour legislator David Lammy says Thursday's national vote was non-binding and "our sovereign Parliament needs to now vote on whether we should quit the EU."

I think we often see Wives of Politicians /P.Ms/ Presidents stand nearby to them  when they make important statements..I think i've seen similar with Blair's and  Obama's Wife.

Quote from: funbox on June 26, 2016, 02:34:11 PM
anyone want to take a guess at why Camron resigned, when he said he would continue, and why he has delayed  initiating article 50 until October?

funbox

Quote from: astr0144 on June 26, 2016, 02:48:39 PM
It maybe  hard to say if Cameron's decision was wrong to do what he did by resigning on the day..I would had thought that maybe he should have at least took the weekend to consider..

very wrong, its a direct contradiction of the things he said he would do beforehand, but  I doubt any  of the things he said were his words or thoughts. this to me was a direct call from above.

in other words ,*for those that aren't familiar with unfamiliar metaphors*, he was directed to resign
maybe the reason why no one has seen Osborne :D

QuoteThe markets had already crashed...so has  his decision helped calm them falling further so soon...

yes , amazing how quickly the fear mongering started mid count wasn't it :D

contrived one feels

QuoteWhat puzzled me about Cameron is that he had initially seemed to indicate it maybe best to leave the EU.. maybe 6 to 8 weeks ago I think... then he changed his view..

again ... that clarity from above ,shaping things..

QuoteSo I am suspicious of the whole thing at the moment..

but are these peculiar behaviours , bread crumbs to make us become so ?

QuoteAlso if there is any chance that the decision could be changed and he knows that maybe a possibility..again why would he do it so soon

from now to October , hmmm , why do I get the impression its a big distraction , I get the feeling something big is happening on the peripheries of the sandstorm

QuoteI think we often see Wives of Politicians /P.Ms/ Presidents stand nearby to them  when they make important statements. I think I've seen similar with Blair's and  Obama's Wife.

hmm maybe, but given the framing of the speech it was overkill to keep her out of shot, for the medium -long shot *angled shot from left of Camron, down street, incorporating the couple* it portrayed distance ,isolation , solitude and an air of repulsion..

poor ole dodgy Dave :D

funbox

I amended some parts of my prior post..you may not had noted.

The one thing that Politicians are expert at is being able to change their views and giving reasons for doing so..or lying.  :)

It could have been a call from "above" or just an expected thing he knew was coming ..and hes just a good actor !

Quotevery wrong, its a direct contradiction of the things he said he would do beforehand, but  I doubt any  of the things he said were his words or thoughts. this to me was a direct call from above.

in other words ,*for those that aren't familiar with unfamiliar metaphors*, he was directed to resign
maybe the reason why no one has seen Osborne :D

We may see a Domino effect between now and October..

anything could happen..

if its genuine... they may not be able to control what happens next..

or it maybe planned..

we may never know !

Quotefrom now to October , hmmm , why do I get the impression its a big distraction , I get the feeling something big is happening on the peripheries of the sandstorm

Yes it may have been part of the plan to have the media / Press  obtain such a view as you describe...

If he is genuine, then maybe poor old Dave !

If D.C is just part of the plan ...then He is probably getting a large pay off ! so it wont be poor Dave ! and maybe he will take early retirement....but more than likely now become a back bencher or take on some other roll like Blair did..

Quotehmm maybe, but given the framing of the speech it was overkill to keep her out of shot, for the medium -long shot *angled shot from left of Camron, down street, incorporating the couple* it portrayed distance ,isolation , solitude and an air of repulsion..

 last-ditch efforts that could stop the Brexit.

Another related article to try to reverse the Brexit decision..

Just three days after a shocking vote to leave the European Union, millions of Britons are asking for a do-over. But is it possible to stop the process?

Technically, yes. While the chances are slim, there are several ways the UK could reverse course.

1) Members of Parliament vote against it

The referendum vote to leave the EU is not binding––the decision must be officially ratified by Parliament, following any legal challenges.

This gives the Members of Parliament, who mostly oppose the Brexit, an opportunity to vote to stay in the EU. However, the people have spoken, and the MPs have a responsibility to represent their interests.

"Opposing the will of the people is not going to help you get elected next time, particularly if you are in a marginal constituency," write James Knightley, Chris Turner and Carsten Brzeski of ING Group.

2) A re-do referendum

Over 3 million UK residents signed a petition on Parliament's site demanding a second vote take place, the largest petition the government's website has ever seen. Parliament must debate any proposal with over 100,000 signatures.

The petition, which launched before the referendum, asked for a second vote on EU membership if support for the remain or leave vote was below 60% with turnout under 75%.

Thursday's British exit vote had only 52% backing on a 72% turnout. While the petition must be considered by Parliament, members do not need to act on it.


3) EU concessions

Before Britain invokes Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, the never-used provision that sets out how a country would leave the union, the EU could negotiate more favorable terms with the UK.

"The EU offered major concessions after Danish voters initially rejected the Maastricht Treaty and Irish voters opposed both the Nice and Lisbon Treaties. It is therefore possible that some members want to keep the EU together at all costs and are prepared to offer the UK more on migration," write Knightley, Turner and Brzeski.

However, given that the free movement of people is one of the EU's central tenets, many EU members will likely oppose further negotiations on this front, add Knightley, Turner and Brzeski. "Getting an agreement to give the UK more power to control EU migration whilst staying in the EU does not appear to be a probable outcome," they write.


4) Scotland and Northern Ireland veto the decision

Per the Scotland Act 1998, the Scottish Parliament would need to approve measures that remove EU law from Scotland, according to the House of Lords report "The Process of withdrawing from the European Union."

The report states that same might be true for Northern Ireland. However, this is simply an interpretation and not the letter of the law. Also, the UK Parliament ratified the Scotland Act, and it's possible they could override a potential veto by amending the Act.

Going forward

"What we do know is that the longer it takes to decide the outcome, the greater the political and economic costs for both the UK and the EU," write Knightley, Turner and Brzeski.

Given that Prime Minister David Cameron has already resigned and many EU members are calling for a quick separation, the path toward a Brexit will likely be difficult to stop.

"It's not an amicable divorce, but it never really was a close love affair anyway," said Jean-Claude Juncker, EU Commission President.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/britain-revote-stop-brexit-081452041.html

Quote from: astr0144 on June 26, 2016, 02:48:39 PM
It is being suggested that the outcome is NOT Binding...

It isn't.

Quote - "That's a completely different situation.

Yes, it is different - like the difference between a Volkswagen Beetle and an 18 wheel MAC truck. But both the EU and the UN are dedicated  to imposing upon all members what is the "group feeling of a few" for what is better for all, come hell or high water! The citizens of individual country members have little/no input into decisions made, and no recourse............except for an in-country vote such as Brexit to GET OUT OF IT

Now we get to watch the socialist left/ELiTES squeal like pigs, and run around the pig pen (Parliament) to try and find someway to deny the vote of the majority of the people. Of course, with most of the money being in the hands of people who "take care of/encourage" the pigs in the pig pen on what to do and how to do it, there likely will be a hard struggle!


                                                                              (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/yesitis-noitisnt.gif)

Quote from: rdunk on June 26, 2016, 05:25:04 PM
But both the EU and the UN are dedicated  to imposing upon all members what is the "group feeling of a few" for what is better for all, come hell or high water!

What does the UN imposes to its members?

Quote from: ArMaP on June 26, 2016, 05:43:48 PM
What does the UN imposes to its members?

the virtual selloff of Greece ? :D

funbox

Quote from: ArMaP on June 26, 2016, 05:43:48 PM
What does the UN imposes to its members?

Gun control and registration of arms! Environmental reqs.! etc etc .........and funding needs for the UN, which is a money black hole!

Funding

CNS News

By Patrick Goodenough | December 27, 2015 | 11:30 PM EST

The U.N. General Assembly just before Christmas approved a regular operating budget of $5.4 billion for the 2016-17 period. (That budget is calculated biannually.) Of the $2.7 billion earmarked for 2016, the U.S. will account for 22 percent, or $594 million.

Of the separate peacekeeping budget – $8.27 billion for the year ending June 30 – the U.S. is liable for 28.5783 percent, or $2.363 billion. Combined, the two U.S. contributions amount to just under $3 billion.

In actual fact the full extent of U.S. funding for the U.N. system will be considerably more than that: The $2.957 billion figure comprises the U.S. "assessed contributions" to the two main budgets, but the U.S. in addition provides much more in "voluntary contributions" to a range of U.N. agencies.

(The last time the administration was obliged by law to provide Congress with a full breakdown, the total for fiscal year 2010 was $7.69 billion. The reporting requirement fell away in 2011.)

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/three-billion-and-counting-us-taxpayers-will-fund-lions-share-un

Why would 2 or 3 million names on a petition make any difference?? millions have already put their names on petitions (votes). More than 30 million people from England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland -- and even tiny Gibraltar -- went to the polls, with 51.89% of them deciding that Britain would become the first country to withdraw from the 28-member bloc.

Would not the people who are now signing petitions be mostly those who voted "Remain" to begin with?? They lost already!! This should not be  "play-it-as-you-go game of cards. They had a vote, and now they need to get on with implementing the results!!

Doncha think it a bit ODD, that people who just voted on a matter and lost are now asking for another vote, or, or asking that the vote of Great Britain be ruled null and void??

Quote from: funbox on June 26, 2016, 08:03:17 PM
the virtual selloff of Greece ? :D

Do you have any evidence?

Quote from: rdunk on June 26, 2016, 08:33:48 PM
Gun control and registration of arms!

Really? Can you show me an example?

QuoteEnvironmental reqs.!

Again, do you have an example?

Quote.........and funding needs for the UN, which is a money black hole!

True, and some years ago I remember reading the US wasn't paying their dues to UNICEF, so they were at risk of shutting down several aid programs.

Quote from: rdunk on June 26, 2016, 08:47:35 PM
Why would 2 or 3 million names on a petition make any difference??

The petition I saw mentioned was started before the referendum, asking for a second one if neither side got more than 60% of the votes.

Quotemillions have already put their names on petitions (votes). More than 30 million people from England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland -- and even tiny Gibraltar -- went to the polls, with 51.89% of them deciding that Britain would become the first country to withdraw from the 28-member bloc.

The problem with that is that the UK is an union itself, so they should not be surprised if those that chose to stay in the EU make their own referendums to break away from the UK. That's the case of Scotland, Northern Ireland and tiny Gibraltar.
The case of London is different, asking for the independence of London is a bit ridiculous.

ArMaP said, "Really? Can you show me an example"?

(http://s26.postimg.org/mwj0bx44p/Screen_Shot_2016_06_26_at_5_10_49_PM.jpg)

Breitbart

by AWR HAWKINS27 Aug 2015

Representatives attending the UN Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) in Mexico this week have set up a structure for future conferences on gun control that include a veto-proof decision making process.

According to Reuters, representatives from 130 countries gathered in Mexico, although only 72 countries have fully ratified the treaty. They determined that Geneva will be "the seat of the permanent secretariat for the ATT" and they unanimously decided that unanimous agreements would not have to be reached on gun control decisions going forward.


More: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/27/un-gun-control-body-supported-by-obama-sets-up-veto-proof-framework/

Yes !

I Wonder however if it would had been seen as so concerning had the markets not crashed..

They are down again on the Late Sunday opening.. But I was suspecting that they will re-rally back up from today..(If the low made in the first 6 hrs holds into Monday)

I think that's the main thing that is putting fear in everyone..which is very understandable..

The thoughts of being put into severe uncertainty after some of the problems that have occurred since the 2007/8 crash..along with another recession..

In such cases.. we know we will have to deal with the changes..and some market concerns...which may not seem as bad if the markets hold up.. but if we see major declines that will create possible big problems..

and some experts had suggested a crash is likely to be coming some time ago even before they came up with  Brexit..

QuoteDoncha think it a bit ODD, that people who just voted on a matter and lost are now asking for another vote, or, or asking that the vote of Great Britain be ruled null and void??

The Arms Trade Treaty is a treaty to regulate international trade in conventional arms. As any other treaty, only the countries that signed and ratified it are obliged to follow their rules, the countries that didn't signed and ratified the treaty have no legal obligation to do any thing.

The countries that signed and ratified the treaty must implement methods to control arms exports, among other things by creating an (or appointing an existing) organisation or governmental body that issues maintains a list of which arms are under export regulation, issues export licences, gives information about the export to the destination country, etc.

The US signed but not ratified the treaty. You can read more about it here (https://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/att/).

Quote from: ArMaP on June 26, 2016, 09:45:51 PM
Do you have any evidence?

no, they do *Greeks* .. how much again do they owe ?they'll be paying debt for the foreseeable generational future

shouldn't you put yourself on recharge for a bit ? :D

funbox

Quote from: astr0144 on June 26, 2016, 03:45:43 PM

If D.C is just part of the plan ...then He is probably getting a large pay off ! so it wont be poor Dave ! and maybe he will take early retirement....but more than likely now become a back bencher or take on some other roll like Blair did..

maybe he climbs the ladder of the masonic, like blair , but as you can see via Blair .. it takes it's toll :D
don't worry Astro , ive not shed a single tear for the puppet

*a chorus of mfb's choke up in unison*

funbox

Quote from: funbox on June 27, 2016, 01:04:31 AM
no, they do *Greeks* .. how much again do they owe ?they'll be paying debt for the foreseeable generational future

The Greek debt has no relation to the UN.

Quoteshouldn't you put yourself on recharge for a bit ? :D

I don't understand what you mean by that. ???

Quote from: ArMaP on June 27, 2016, 01:33:35 AM
The Greek debt has no relation to the UN.

who said anything about the U.N?

QuoteI don't understand what you mean by that. ???

that's because your tired ... get some kip

funbox

forget it ArMaP, I see , but I don't see much differentiation between the acronym agency's , they're all following a  plan based around Cosmopolitanism, but sometimes triangles just wont fit into squares, as was proved last week

maybe the Aliens will be more insistent with humanity, in light of humanity's habitual failings at harmonizing  difference

funbox

doublethink on this page me thinks

(http://i.imgur.com/ZiqLNLo.jpg)

funbox

and the first headline on space weather is about Brexit and what its caused :D

http://www.spaceweather.com/

funbox

Branson says Virgin Group loses third of its value after Brexit.

Captain Birdseye Richard Branson's view on Brexit !

(https://s.yimg.com/nn/fp/rsz/062816/images/smush/280616_branson_635x250_1467127954.jpg)

LONDON (Reuters) - Richard Branson, founder and chairman of Virgin Group, said on Tuesday the company had lost about a third of its value since last week's vote by Britons to leave the European Union, adding he believed the country was heading towards a disaster.
Branson said Britain would fall into recession and that there should be a second vote now that people could see the implications of what exiting the bloc would have on the economy.
"This country is going to go into recession. Two of the worst days ever - banks have been pounded means they are not going to lend money, we're going to go into recession," he told the "Good Morning Britain" TV programme.
"We are heading towards a disaster. I don't believe the public realised what a mess their vote would cost."
The billionaire entrepreneur said his airline-through-finance group had cancelled a "very big" deal since the vote which would have involved some 3,000 jobs.
"We're not any worse than anybody else but I suspect we've lost a third of our value," he said.
Branson called for a second EU membership referendum, saying he believed the public had not been given the true facts by those backing Brexit.
"When Brexiters told the public that people were exaggerating there would be a financial meltdown I think it's been proven they were not exaggerating," he said.
"I think one of the reasons why there should be a second referendum, particularly once the terms are known about what our entry into Europe is going to cost us, the public will then have all the facts."
In separate comments to the Guardian newspaper, he said he had met a group of Chinese businessmen who had invested heavily in England, but who would now stop future investment plans and withdraw those they had already made.
"Business people do not want politicians to completely and utterly wreck the hard work they've done for years and years and that is effectively what happened," he told the paper.
"Thousands and thousands of jobs will be lost as a result of this. Thousands of jobs that would have been created will be lost and the knock-on effect will be so dire."


https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/branson-says-virgin-group-loses-102714237.html


                      ---------------------------------

Could Queen Elizabeth Veto Brexit?

(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/lAY3MBbeQAGW1a6Ebch_9Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3E9NzU7dz02NDA7c209MQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/people_218/56938549bdbdd20e07b341bf8f88dd66)

With her country split almost down the middle following Thursday's Brexit vote to leave the European Union, Queen Elizabeth is likely "saddened" by last week's turn of events.
But as head of state, does the Queen have any power to change the result of the historic vote – including possibly vetoing the move to leave the EU? The answer, in short: No – and here’s why. The Queen’s power lies within the advice and guidance she can give Prime Minister David Cameron in the coming days during their weekly meetings. (In the wake of the Brexit vote, Cameron gave an emotional speech announcing his resignation.)
The Queen calls a prime minister from the largest party in any election to create a cabinet and lead a government. She then leaves it to them, and acts only on the advice of those ministers and the prime minister. "The U.K. has created a system whereby the monarch is not able to exercise power – although all power exists in her person," constitutional expert Alastair Bruce tells PEOPLE. "The prime minister is the holder of all executive power, which she gave him." • Want to keep up with the latest royals coverage? Click here to subscribe to the Royals Newsletter.
"She is an emblematic, human depository of all power but doesn’t exercise it. Arguably, that is how the British monarchy has survived." Like her forebears, the role of the monarch is to "be consulted, encourage and to warn," as Walter Bagheot wrote in the English Constitution in 1867. (This might be especially pertinent for someone with more than 64 years of experience.)
The only possible time she might hold practical power is if she is deciding whom to call to lead a government in a coalition. But, even then, she would do so on advice and only when the politicians have come to an agreement about how they could make a government work.
What Did Queen Elizabeth II Do for the First Time in 63 Years?


Expert Andrew Gimson agrees that it would be "astonishing" for the Queen to intervene over Brexit in any formal way. "A large part of our free press would be jumping up and down about it. It would probably be the end of the monarchy, so she wouldn’t do it," says Gimson, author of Boris: The Rise of Boris Johnson, about the man who led the Brexit campaign.
Political writer and fellow Johnson expert, Sonia Purnell (who wrote Just Boris: A Tale of Blond Ambition), says, "We are so divided now," that she wouldn’t be surprised if conversations were happening at the highest levels in the palace. "Intervening would be an exceptional thing to do and she would be loathe to do it."
One thing is certain: Whatever she has been telling Prime Minister Cameron, or others, it is likely to stay between them. "We're not going to know what she does, what she thinks and how she applies that influence," adds Bruce.



https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/could-queen-elizabeth-veto-brexit-150009181.html