Time Might Only Exist in Your Head. And Everyone Else's
TIME MIGHT ONLY EXIST IN YOUR HEAD. AND EVERYONE ELSE'S.
(https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/arrow_of_time-2.jpg)
arrow_of_time-2.jpg
WIRED
PAST. PRESENT. FUTURE.
In physics, they are all the same thing. But to you, me, and everyone else, time moves in one direction: from expectation, through experience, and into memory. This linearity is called the arrow of time, and some physicists believe it only progresses that way because humans, and other beings with similar neurological wiring, exist to observe its passing.
The question of time's arrow is an old one. And to be clear, it's not whether time exists, but what direction it moves. Many physicists believe it emerges when enough tiny particles—individually governed by the weird rules of quantum mechanics— interact, and start displaying behavior that can be explained using classical physics. But two scientists argue, in a paper published today in Annalen der physik—the same journal that published Einstein's seminal articles on special and general relativity—that gravity isn't strong enough to force every object in the universe to follow the same past»present»future direction. Instead, time's arrow emerges from observers.
This all goes back to one of the biggest problems in physics, knitting together quantum and classical mechanics. In quantum mechanics, particles can have superposition. That is, one electron might exist in either of two places, and nobody can say for sure which until it is observed. Where that electron might be is represented by probability. Experimentally, this checks out.
However, the rules change when electrons start interacting with many objects—like a bunch of air molecules—or decohere into things like dust particles, airplanes, and baseballs. Classical mechanics take over, and gravity becomes important. "The position of electron, each atom, is governed by a probability," says Yasunori Nomura, a physicist at UC Berkeley. But once they interact with larger objects, or become things like baseballs, those individual probabilities combine, and the odds of all those collective electrons having superposition decreases. That's why you never see a baseball simultaneously disappear into the left fielder's mitt while also soaring into the upper deck.
That moment when particle physics merge with classical mechanics is called decoherence. In terms of physics, it is when time's direction becomes mathematically important. And so, most physicists believe time's arrow emerges from decoherence.
The most prominent theory explaining decoherence is the Wheeler-DeWitt equation. It dates to 1965, when a physicist named John Wheeler had a layover at an airport in North Carolina. To pass the time, he asked his colleague Bryce DeWitt to meet him. They did what physicists do: talk theory and play with numbers. The two came up with an equation that, to Wheeler, erased the seams between quantum and classical mechanics (DeWitt was more ambivalent).
The theory isn't perfect. But it is important, and most physicists agree that it is an important tool for understanding the weirdness underlying decoherence and so-called quantum gravity.
Here's where it gets a bit weirder. Although the equation doesn't include a variable for time (which isn't all that weird. Time is something that can't be measured in terms of itself, in physics it is measured as correlations between an object's location ... over time ... anyway, it's weird). But, it provides a framework for knitting the universe together.
However, the two scientists who penned this recent paper say that, in the Wheeler-DeWitt equation, gravity's effects kick in too slowly to account for a universal arrow of time. "If you look at examples and do the math, the equation doesn't explain how time's direction emerges," says Robert Lanza, a biologist, polymath, and co-author of the paper. (Lanza is the founder of biocentrism, a theory that space and time are constructs of biological sensory limitations.) In other words, those nimble quantum particles ought to be able to keep their property of superposition before gravity grabs hold. And if, say, gravity is too weak to hold an interaction between to molecules as they decohere into something larger, then there's no way it can force them to move in the same direction, time-wise.
If that math doesn't check out, that leaves the observer: Us. Time moves as it does because humans are biologically, neurologically, philosophically hardwired to experience it that way. It's like a macro-scale version of Schrödinger's cat. A faraway corner of the universe might be moving future to past. But the moment humans point a telescope in that direction, time conforms to the past-future flow. ""In his papers on relativity, Einstein showed that time was relative to the observer," says Lanza. "Our paper takes this one step further, arguing that the observer actually creates it."
This is not necessarily a new theory. Italian physicist Carlo Rovelli wrote about it in a paper published last year on ArXiv, an open physics website. Nor is it uncontroversial. Nomura says one flaw is figuring out how to measure whether this notion of "observer time" is real. "The answer depends on whether the concept of time can be defined mathematically without including observers in the system," he says. The authors argue that there is no way to subtract the observer from any equation, since equations are by default performed and analyzed by people.
Nomura says the authors also fail to account for the fact that the entire universe exists in a medium called spacetime, "So when you talk about spacetime, you already talking about a decohered system." He doesn't go so far as to say the authors are wrong—physics remains an incomplete science—but he disagrees with the conclusions they draw from their math. And like time, interpretations of physics are all relative.
https://www.wired.com/2016/09/arrow-of-time/
Now — And The Physics Of Time.
(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/8zOM2thGQ_WXZXKFLJ0f3Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3E9NzU7dz02NDA7c209MQ--/http://slingstone.zenfs.com/offnetwork/64c107c056bc0230249a49c22c9cb717)
Time is elusive and enigmatic. The moment now is ephemeral.
Quandaries and confusion about time date back as far as Aristotle and Augustine, and as recently as Einstein and Feynman.
Physicists understand much about time, how its flow varies depending on velocity and gravity, but they haven't reached any consensus on why it flows at all. If time is simply the fourth dimension, why can we stand still in space but not in time? Progress in this field has been so slow that most scientists simply ignore the question.
Consider the following remarkable statement: You are reading the word "now" right now. I make that statement, despite the fact that I could have no prior knowledge of when you were going to read it. The very concept of the ephemeral now is illusive. Aristotle devoted pages to the subject but became entangled in his own words. Augustine (in the 4th century) wrote, "What is time? If no one asks me, I know; if I wish to explain, I do not know.... My soul yearns to know this most entangled enigma."
Until the 20th century, time was merely the stage on which the laws of physics were performed. Only in the 20th century did Albert Einstein show that we could study the stage itself. He showed that even though he couldn't explain the flow of time, he could derive rules about that flow. He showed that time moves slower in a moving object and that, thanks to gravity, time flows faster upstairs than it does downstairs (a huge effect for GPS satellites). By bringing time into the realm of science, Einstein gave physics the gift of time.
Yet even the great Einstein despaired of understanding the flow of time and the meaning of now. Einstein's quandary was described by Rudolf Carnap:
Einstein said the problem of the Now worried him seriously. He explained that the experience of the Now means something special for man, something essentially different from the past and the future, but that this important difference does not and cannot occur within physics. That this experience cannot be grasped by science seemed to him a matter of painful but inevitable resignation. So he concluded 'that there is something essential about the Now which is just outside the realm of science.'
We've made little progress since Einstein — until now. Some theorists, in their frustration, revert to Augustine's deduction: that the flow of time is an illusion. Although this conclusion doesn't fall within the realm of science (how could you falsify it?), it provides a convenient excuse for ignoring the most salient aspects of time, the flow and the now, the aspects that are at the heart of human experience.
Now, in the early 21st century, it is time once again to examine the meaning of time. In the early 20th century, Einstein tried to "unify" the forces of electromagnetism and gravity, but he failed. We now understand the reason for his lack of success: His work was premature. Unification was only possible when the importance of the weak force (the cause of common radioactivity) was first unified with electromagnetism. Then the strong force (which holds the nucleus together) was unified with them. Only recently are scientists attempting to bring in gravity. Without our current knowledge of all the forces, Einstein's attempted unification was destined to fail.
In a similar way, past attempts to understand now and the flow of time were doomed by our inadequate understanding of quantum physics and cosmology. To put together a coherent picture, you must include the mysterious covert action at a distance of quantum mechanical entanglement. You need to include our modern (far, far different from the days of Einstein) understanding of the structure and expansion of the universe. You need to understand the nature of antimatter, and Feynman's fantastic conclusion that antimatter is just ordinary matter moving backwards in time. What does that mean? Does it imply time travel is possible? What does that imply for our concept of "free will?"
I think that only now can we finally understand the concept of now. In cosmology, we think of the expanding universe as the continuous creation of new space; the universe continues to grow as the space between galaxies increases. That recognition makes it plausible that in the ongoing expansion, the universe is creating not only new space but also new time. Each newly created moment is what we refer to as now. Let's call this the "Now Hypothesis."
This picture may sound philosophical, but it has a solid foundation in physics, and moreover (unlike many current day string theories) it offers an experimental test. If the creation of time and space are linked, then there should be observable consequences when we observe the collisions of black holes, as was recently reported from the LIGO observatories. In their most powerful event, reported just this past February, the combination of two massive black holes should, according to General Relativity theory, have resulted in a massive amount of new space in the vicinity of the final star, amounting to millions of cubic kilometers. According to the Now Hypothesis, this event should have also created a new interval of local time, about a thousandth of a second. Alas, that is just barely too short to be observable in the observed events. But we all expect that the first LIGO event is unlikely to be the strongest; as soon as we see a similar event taking place closer to us, the improved signal strength should be sufficient to test the theory, to confirm it or disprove it.
Now is an exciting time. We are on the threshold of possibly understand both now and the flow of time.
http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/09/27/495608371/now-and-the-physics-of-time
Great thread. Very informative.
My 2¢ -
Time is a human construct. There is no yesterday. There is no tomorrow. There is only now.
Humans invented time as a means to regulate their existence. Time isn't necessary.
I once read a book on, of all things, Tantric art. The book described an interesting view of time...
In the Tantric view of time described there exists only now. Now includes all of the past (as memory, so akashic record in esoteric language) and there is no future. There is only this moment, ever expanding because it contains the past. Everything you can sense is you viewing the immediate past.
There is some evidence for this view that explains the "mystery of the now". If there is no future only the ever expanding now - which contains all of the past - then how physicists view the Universe makes sense.
We can observe the past in physics (e.g. in the form of photographs, memories, fossils etc) because those memories exist in this moment. We cannot observe the future (e.g. we can't photograph the future) because it does not exist.
In this view of time there is no mystery of "now". There is only now. The past is just part of the now. Time is an illusion. It is consciousness perceiving the moment as a flow of events moving into the past.
The 'rising' and 'setting' of the sun is how humans have developed time....a means of ordering their daily lives.
But once you leave this planet and the sun doesn't 'rise' nor 'set' and your 'now' existence is all that matters, the only thing that changes is the deconstruction of your human cells..your left with?
Your soul, which is pure energy which can not be destroyed only diverted...
Sorry just rambling....
8)
I am sorry to say but the last 20 years for me seem to have gone so fast it seems more like a 5 year period.
At times.. I have no idea where time has gone ! ???
I know my body has changed but my mind (other than knowledge and experience obtained) does not seem have altered and to still be almost as it was when I was many years ago (from what it recalls) So many things seem to almost be as if they happened only recently..
Yes there is only the clock and the changing of the seasons and day and night that make one be aware of changes..but they are all so similar or repeating..
There are times when I can be awake for several days without hardly any sleep.. and I cannot understand or recall somethings very well..and it is not always from feeling tired in the mind.. but it seems my conciousness is alert... but when I sleep..I cannot recall..unless I recall dreams..which seems rare these days..
The changes we see happen over longer term.. in our appearance ..from youth..teens to adult to middle age and old age... but I cannot figure out where the years have gone or why those times seem to have passed by so quick..then we look back to try and recall them.
We wonder what this life's journey is all about..and where it may end or if it starts all over again..
which the older i get I consider could be more likely !..
I often wish we did not have to obey the cloak..and repeat so many tasks similar each day..doing so many repeated things..be it bathe, eat ,sleep, go to work doing a repeat type job..
I often wish that I was just created in a way that I could still experience but not be chained to so many regular things we all have to do each day to survive..
why were we made this way ?
If we were pure consciousness..and could either be what ever form we chose and do what we want and not be guided in ways we may not wish to desire...
were also we did not get tired or sleep.. need to go to the toilet or eat..or wash each day...
as all that would not apply if we were say some form of non solid matter..
how would life and time be ?
could we do what we want to do and achieve what we want... as so much in our present existence seems to find too many ways to deny us too many things that few seem to attain !
and would time greatly matter in certain other ways...if we were all more free from its restraints..
That's my rambling for the day !
Quote from: astr0144 on October 08, 2016, 11:56:08 AM
If we were pure consciousness..and could either be what ever form we chose and do what we want and not be guided in ways we may not wish to desire...
were also we did not get tired or sleep.. need to go to the toilet or eat..or wash each day...
as all that would not apply if we were say some form of non solid matter..
If you are conscious but matter and consciousness are indivisible then you must be both.
If there are other consciousnesses in the universe that also have free will then no matter how powerful you are you could not control everything as there are other consciousnesses acting on your world.
I think "Matrix traveller" when he used to post on PRC sort of suggested similar to what you have stated.
Its the physical that appears as some form of Solid matter...in what I usually think of more like in a visual solid type of form...
when one looks at other states of matter.. maybe liquid or gas form... then that maybe considered different..
I would relate Conciousness more closer to matter in a gas state if I was trying to make some comparison in one way...
Otherwise Consciousness may seem invisible in terms of the physical...
But what in our Physical world is seen as invisible ?
What about the Electro magnetic spectrum ?
We can only see Light waves...but not the other types of waves naturally...(at least without certain types of detection items or equipment) Radio, Mirowave's, Ultra violet , infared.."X" rays or gama rays..
and What about Sound waves ?
but we know they all exist in the physical world we all relate to..
So is conciousness a type of wave I wonder ?
QuoteIf you are conscious but matter and consciousness are indivisible then you must be both.
Interesting thought..
What if we all have similar situations in ref to our consciousness... BUT also had individual sides to it.
If we all have to relate to other consciousnesses.. having some form of control over each other..rather than like having what we may think of as gods creation being something that may create those thoughts or obsticles...
What is so weird.. when we are young we know so little as to what controls us psychogically... but when we get older and have had more life experience...
we can become overwhelmed with far too many things that control our freedom..
so much at times it just seems pathetic...
and really restricts our lives so much at times one wonders why we bother to exist..
too many human laws etc stop us doing so much that we should be free to do IMO..
Quote
If there are other consciousnesses in the universe that also have free will then no matter how powerful you are you could not control everything as there are other consciousnesses acting on your world.
All this flippy-flappy about something that is no different than height, length, and width.
Time is just a mutually agreed upon measurement, just like speed. It is an agreed upon scale of measurement. That is all, class dismembered. ::)
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on October 05, 2016, 01:57:01 PM
The 'rising' and 'setting' of the sun is how humans have developed time....a means of ordering their daily lives.
But once you leave this planet and the sun doesn't 'rise' nor 'set' and your 'now' existence is all that matters, the only thing that changes is the deconstruction of your human cells..your left with?
Your soul, which is pure energy which can not be destroyed only diverted...
Sorry just rambling....
8)
Well, isn't most any discussion of the "abstract" pretty much "rambling", for most of us, relative to inputs and outcomes? :)
One thing for sure, we are are generally equal experts on the subject of "time". Certainly we all are not equal on the many many subtilties of time, as there are just no end to their extent.
Just to simply add one other thought to this equation-of-time-reference discussion, "it is written" in the best selling book that.........."time shall be no more"**! So, if time actually can cease to exist, then we should be able to accept for the present that "yes, time must pretty much simply exist in our heads" (and thus in our lives)!! ;)
**Revelation 10:6