Pegasus Research Consortium

Ancient Civilizations => Ancient Civilizations => Topic started by: zorgon on November 28, 2016, 11:31:38 AM

Title: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: zorgon on November 28, 2016, 11:31:38 AM
Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru

(https://scontent.flas1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15253569_10207578994300720_1637679949540718896_n.jpg?oh=5019675aa668ae4aefcc4021a64644f3&oe=58BA88C5)
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: astr0144 on November 28, 2016, 02:36:57 PM
Another thread with ref to Puma Punka..and its Precision  cut rocks.
with more images.

Anti gravity or gravity reduction?

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=9695.msg127937#msg127937

Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on November 28, 2016, 09:07:23 PM
That doesn't look precise.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: The Seeker on November 28, 2016, 11:46:02 PM
Quote from: ArMaP on November 28, 2016, 09:07:23 PM
That doesn't look precise.
Armap don't let looks fool you; the majority of the blocks at Puma Punku are precisely machined within 1/1,000th of an inch tolerance; not just cut, machined...

Seeker
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on November 29, 2016, 12:05:44 AM
Quote from: the seeker on November 28, 2016, 11:46:02 PM
Armap don't let looks fool you; the majority of the blocks at Puma Punku are precisely machined within 1/1,000th of an inch tolerance; not just cut, machined...
Did you measured them?
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: The Seeker on November 29, 2016, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: ArMaP on November 29, 2016, 12:05:44 AM
Did you measured them?
I haven't personally but quite a few qualified personnel have, done  using laser plotters...

so, yes, the artifacts have been checked in quite precise detail and documented  8)

Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on November 29, 2016, 01:09:37 AM
Quote from: the seeker on November 29, 2016, 12:12:55 AM
I haven't personally but quite a few qualified personnel have, done  using laser plotters...

so, yes, the artifacts have been checked in quite precise detail and documented  8)
Well, I suppose they didn't check the one from the opening post, as that one is far from a precise cut.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Irene on November 29, 2016, 03:59:20 AM
Quote from: ArMaP on November 29, 2016, 01:09:37 AM
Well, I suppose they didn't check the one from the opening post, as that one is far from a precise cut.

That picture looks like a lintel to me, carved in an arc.

I'm sure you've seen the other blocks at Puma Punku. I've seen video of researchers and engineers checking them with those 90° square thingies. I'm not sure what they're called. The angles are perfect or near perfect.

I have also seen an interview with a master stone mason who said we don't have the means in the present day to make the cuts made on those stones.

Similar examinations have been made on blocks in Egypt. Same conclusions, perfect or near perfect angles and we lack the tech to do what they did BC.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on November 29, 2016, 09:26:09 AM
Quote from: Irene on November 29, 2016, 03:59:20 AM
I'm sure you've seen the other blocks at Puma Punku. I've seen video of researchers and engineers checking them with those 90° square thingies. I'm not sure what they're called. The angles are perfect or near perfect.
I've seen some of those too, and "near perfect" implies "not precise".

QuoteI have also seen an interview with a master stone mason who said we don't have the means in the present day to make the cuts made on those stones.
I was born above a stone mason workshop and lived there until I was 7, and loved to see the men work the stone. I have also seen a block of marble that was being cut into slabs by Roman workers in a small town that has been living from exporting marble since the Roman empire times, and their work was as good as the one made by the workmen at the stone mason workshop I knew.

Time and patience are great things.  :)

PS: Some of those Puma Punku stones appear to have some kind of cement covering them to make them look smooth.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Eighthman on November 29, 2016, 12:53:00 PM
As I recall, didn't some blocks suggest tentative cuts attempted?  That looked straight, neat and inexplicable?
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 29, 2016, 04:53:30 PM
It's easy to look at something with 20th century eyes. But remember the ancient people found ways of doing things that seem by today's standards as impossible without a higher intellect. I've also seen a website that purported to show the actual tools found at the site but are cleverly left out of reports. Seems fishy. But who's to say really. Maybe the Aliens did help? No one knows and all else is speculation.

Rock
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Irene on November 29, 2016, 06:05:43 PM
Sarge,

You've pointed out something very important. The only tools we ever find are very primitive. I don't believe these blocks were fashioned using copper tools.

ETA, I don't think they were moved with ropes and logs either.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 29, 2016, 08:35:11 PM
Quote from: Irene on November 29, 2016, 06:05:43 PM
Sarge,

You've pointed out something very important. The only tools we ever find are very primitive. I don't believe these blocks were fashioned using copper tools.

ETA, I don't think they were moved with ropes and logs either.

But how do you know?

edit:
I found the video debunking all of this Ancient Alien stuff:

https://youtu.be/Fn4AoAZMRqM
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Irene on November 29, 2016, 09:27:40 PM
Sarge,

Of course I don't know for sure, but based on what I've seen and read I believe as I posted above.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 29, 2016, 11:09:15 PM
Quote from: Irene on November 29, 2016, 09:27:40 PM
Sarge,

Of course I don't know for sure, but based on what I've seen and read I believe as I posted above.

Did you watch the video? I think it explains it very well. But to each his own.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Irene on November 29, 2016, 11:37:47 PM
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 29, 2016, 11:09:15 PM
Did you watch the video? I think it explains it very well. But to each his own.

I watched part of it. I'm not an "AA" fan. I think it's sensationalist and lacking in science. I don't have much time for the "debunking" either.

People are too quick to dismiss the idea that people thousands of years ago may have been far more advanced than we are today. I think there is a great deal we don't know about ancient humans.

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that rocks and sand were responsible for what we're seeing in the megaliths and monoliths.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 29, 2016, 11:46:54 PM
Labor intensive to say the least, but according to the video, AA left out a lot and misrepresented a lot of important info.

I'm not a fan of AA or debunking sites either, but in this instance it's pretty impressive.

Rock
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on November 30, 2016, 12:01:47 AM
Quote from: Irene on November 29, 2016, 11:37:47 PM
People are too quick to dismiss the idea that people thousands of years ago may have been far more advanced than we are today.
People are also too quick to dismiss the idea that just because they don't know how things are done it doesn't mean it's difficult. :)
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Irene on November 30, 2016, 12:07:23 AM
Quote from: ArMaP on November 30, 2016, 12:01:47 AM
People are also too quick to dismiss the idea that just because they don't know how things are done it doesn't mean it's difficult. :)

I'm not in the habit of wallowing in ignorance.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on November 30, 2016, 12:26:29 AM
Quote from: Irene on November 30, 2016, 12:07:23 AM
I'm not in the habit of wallowing in ignorance.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that.  ???
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Eighthman on November 30, 2016, 01:31:20 AM
If you believe it was done without extreme difficulty, you are free to demonstrate how. Otherwise, it's just untethered  skepticism.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Littleenki on November 30, 2016, 02:40:23 PM
As for the technology used to make the stones of Puma Punku, what sets it apart, is that these shapes and forms, appear more like parts of an engineered structure with some mechanical, or hydrological purpose, not just a decorum of Pharaoh heads and such, or a stack of slabs, alike Stonehenge...these were built for a specific purpose, and were likely part of a very modern appearing feature of the local culture, which was also wiped out by the cataclysm which has been suggested around the time of 9800 BC.

Moving them is a non issue, as they could easily find methods of cutting and transporting them from quarries, as ArMap said, what these masons could do was amazing.

So why do they appear as if some sort of pieces to a larger device or complex?

The Incas, Peruvians of recent times, and their forefathers all were adept water wizards, creating aqueducts and canal systems to rival the best seen in any region of the planet.

The shape of the image in the OP itself, smacks of some hydrological purpose, and anything that interlocks, like those h blocks, is often built with a reason towards engineering rigidity and a good resistance to linear, or multi-linear forces.

Ive always said, if it was built before the cataclysm of 9800 BC, it was most likely built to be a part of a much more water oriented society..say..like Atlantis perhaps?

Peruvian and Colombian prehistoric artwork and later glyphs show a propensity for squarish forms, and geometric interlocking features, so it wouldnt surprise me if those were a way to remember the technology, albeit in artistic renderings, instead of massive hydrological works.

Archetypes..how do they shape our memories and thoughts? Look to the water...your god.

Cheers!
Le

Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Irene on November 30, 2016, 03:43:52 PM
For Sale: Bridge . . .
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Pimander on November 30, 2016, 08:22:42 PM
Did the Peruvians cut using iron, steel or something else?
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: zorgon on November 30, 2016, 09:19:12 PM
Quote from: Pimander on November 30, 2016, 08:22:42 PM
Did the Peruvians cut using iron, steel or something else?

No idea yet... I hear talk of copper and bronze chisels like in Egypt  but I have tried that  Doesn't work to good on granite  and some of those peruvian stones are Andesite  VERY hard

Iron and Steel has a hardness of 4 to 4.5

A tempered steel file can be 6.5

Copper and Bronze  3

Quartz is 7  Glass is 5-7  Glass can scratch steel

So for people like ArMap saying they could have done it back then  I have one challenge

Cut me a 1 foot CUBE out of granite with 90 degree angles and smooth faces using only a copper chisel and wooden malet

Funny though how NO ARCHAELOGIST EVER accepted that challenge
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on November 30, 2016, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: zorgon on November 30, 2016, 09:19:12 PM
Cut me a 1 foot CUBE out of granite with 90 degree angles and smooth faces using only a copper chisel and wooden malet
Give me a block of granite and the tools and I will try it. :)
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Pimander on February 06, 2017, 03:41:17 AM
Quote from: zorgon on November 30, 2016, 09:19:12 PM
Cut me a 1 foot CUBE out of granite with 90 degree angles and smooth faces using only a copper chisel and wooden malet
That is pointless because that can't be how they did it.  ::)

I'd use andesite hammers to smash the basic shape then smooth the block with something.  I'm not sure what would be the best for smoothing/finishing granite though.

Or I'd use sonics to finish the stone.  They had thousands of years to refine the technology so it isn't impossible.  You can also use sonics to drill so probably also to cut.  Different frequencies will effect different materials in different ways so.... :)
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: ArMaP on February 06, 2017, 01:20:29 PM
Quote from: Pimander on February 06, 2017, 03:41:17 AM
I'm not sure what would be the best for smoothing/finishing granite though.
Granite. :)
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Littleenki on February 06, 2017, 02:46:30 PM
Anyone ever think about molding the blocks, but not from a slurry or aggregate, but by growing them into specified forms or shapes, through some technology we havent determined yet?

We are all worked up as to how someone used a hammer or chisel..but could it have been as simple as transmuting the existing stone, from a useless boulder into a perfect form somehow through crystallization or densification within some sort of fluid or immersion tank?

Ever plated metal, from one solid, to another, through a fluid as the intermediary?

Regarding the Great Pyramid...What was the GP anyways? what went on in there, how could the obvious features of the GP be used in such a system of stoneworking..or were they at all?

Do we see pyramids and odd chambers in nearly all megalithic constructions?

Yes.

PiezoElectricity, water, a connection with an aquifer full of dispersed minerals and materials needed to actually make stone...seems like a good clue to me.

There are sawmarks (big ones)on stones in Egypt, so we know they used saws..and the stones at Puma Punku have obviously machined features (drill holes etc.) incorporated into them, but how were the basic forms made..since the PP stones seem to be exact to the eye, but actually arent exactly the same, could nature have been asked to fill in for typical hamfisted hammering and chiseling in some manner, using water as a tool?

"Alien concrete technology" is a better suggestion than hammers and chisels here, as weird as it may sound...and if one is familiar with cymatics and the behaviour of mass within fluids, water in specific, we can see how using sound (as some here have suggested) comes into play..fluid dynamics, vibrational forces within those fluids..growing stones to near perfect dimensions and detail...using available piezoelectricity to power such an apparatus...now thats a real good path to go down if you ask me.

Imagine the corn starch in a transducer(speaker)experiment which I will assume most here have seen, could they have found a way to reconstitute the stone from solid, into a fluid, then back into a solid again, but within a certain form like concrete, and with a far better dispersion and integration of dissimilar stone ingredients?

Maybe not at Puma Punku, but this methodology has been used somehow I would reason, since geometry and sound is mentioned in nearly every esoteric and religious mysticism throughout history, however veiled.

Food for thought..
Cheers
le
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Somamech on February 06, 2017, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: ArMaP on November 30, 2016, 09:51:16 PM
Give me a block of granite and the tools and I will try it. :)

Good to see you again ArMap!

I would love to give you some Granite Rubble that would suit the purpose!

The only problem is that for the last 5 odd year's I keep seeing a pile of Granite Rubble which came about due to a massive water pipe project the state government carried out, and I become frustrated as I would like to use them for creating microclimates. 

I look at those rock's everytime I drive past them and shudder to think of the effort required, and cost to move that innocent pile of boulders LOL

BTW Granitic soil sucks during the wet season if you want to move heavy equipment.. the structure is like quick sand :)

 
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Pimander on February 06, 2017, 04:13:41 PM
You don't need aliens to have lost technology.  Someone was clearly (in my opinion) navigating the globe supposedly before the invention of the clock (therefore unable to calculate longitude).

There is some interesting info out there on the use of ultrasonics I will try to find if I get some time.
Title: Re: Precision Cut Rocks at Puma Punka Peru
Post by: Shasta56 on February 06, 2017, 07:01:44 PM
What if they communicated with the stone, and asked it to grow in those formations?   The Earth is a sentient being.

Shasta