Brexit Begins Today

[space otter]

i wonder about this
as all the countries make an effort to close their borders (right or wrong - it just is)
and if history gets written for now and read century/ies from now (if we exist then) will this period be called the second dark ages?




Brexit Begins Today: What an English Seaside Town Thinks About the Looming Divorce
NBC News NBC News
Mo Abbas
4 hrs ago

MARGATE, England — At a traditional tea dance on England's southeast coast, couples glide gracefully across the dance floor seemingly untroubled by the looming Brexit storm.

For many in Margate, a once-prosperous seaside town that is part of a district where 64 percent of voters backed leaving the European Union, Britain cannot go soon enough.

"I'm pleased to be out of the EU. But it seems to be taking an awful long time," Gwen Reeves, 66, told NBC News after the dance.

"I'm not racist but I do think the level of immigration is far too high," Reeves added, raising a touchstone issue in the Brexit debate — the number of foreigners being allowed to live and work in the U.K. "We have so many people that are unskilled coming in, needing resources — they need to address it somehow."

Prime Minister Theresa May is on Wednesday expected to formally trigger a two-year process that will take Britain out of the 28-member bloc. The move could radically redraw the country's political and economic landscape and exacerbate deep divisions among the electorate.

Last summer, 52 percent of U.K. voters supported leaving the EU in a bitterly contested referendum that often pitted family members and friends against each other — as well as the political classes.

Only 80 miles from London, Margate and many other British coastal towns suffered following the advent of cheap air travel in the 1970s. They are now in some ways analogous to the U.S. rust-belt towns that embraced President Donald Trump.

Many in Margate favor Brexit, alleging the EU is responsible for a slew of social and economic problems plaguing the area. But others at Tuesday's dance were downbeat about the impending move.

"I'm really disappointed — very upset," said Sally Vaughan, 69. "I don't think people realize how much the EU has invested in this country."

Janet Mitchell, 66, who attended the event with her husband Andy, added: "We were better off in the EU. I agree there were lots of things that needed negotiating but we are better off in it. The trouble is I think the country voted with their hearts rather than their heads without any real information. That's why you've got this problem of not knowing where to turn."

Immigration and regulation
A key driver for many who voted to leave was immigration. Under EU rules the citizens of other member states have the right to live and work anywhere in the bloc.

This arrangement has been a boon for U.K. businesses seeking highly skilled workers or cheaper labor. But it has also led to complaints from many Britons about competition for jobs, housing, doctor appointments and school places.

In towns such as Margate, with relatively high poverty and unemployment rates, the resentment is especially acute.

"It's making it harder for English people to get jobs. They come here and they get money left, right and center," said Chris Boxall, 35, who is waiting to be accommodated in public housing some two months after leaving prison.

Boxall was sitting with friends drinking before noon in a shopping district in the town center, where many shops are boarded up and a high proportion of the remaining businesses are charity shops and pound stores — the equivalent of dollar stores.

"You've got homeless English people, and they help the foreigners, but not the English. We need to look after our own country," Boxall said.

Kierra Watkins, a 25-year-old tattoo apprentice, told NBC News that she had "no feelings" about the triggering of Article 50, adding that Britons ultimately now had to "deal with it."

"I think people voted 'out' because of foreigners," she said. "I've got lots of foreign friends, but the ones that don't want to learn English hang around in groups and the older generation sees that as a gang ... The elderly are scared. Some are just racist."


Others object to the European Union's rules and regulations.

"The EU has so many different ideas about what we should and shouldn't do. It's not even our own country anymore," said Lynn Palmer, 65, who was out shopping on Tuesday.

Uncertainty over Britain's future relationship with the EU has sent the pound tumbling around 20 percent since the referendum in June, pushing up prices for goods ranging from groceries to gadgets.

Palmer said some elderly people might have to choose between buying food and paying for heating should prices continue to rise, but she still had "no regrets."

European regeneration
Margate was once a premier British holiday destination. Beginning in the 18th century, Britons would flock to its sandy beaches for the health benefits of swimming in the sea and fresh air.

Now many of its handsome Georgian townhouses are crumbling or have been subdivided into cheap boarding houses for unemployed or low-skilled workers.

But the EU has come to the rescue, pumping millions of pounds into revitalizing different parts of the county of Kent, including Margate.
"The whole of the Old Town was more or less lots of derelict buildings and the whole thing was done up through EU funding," said Louise Oldfield, a community activist who also runs a bed-and-breakfast in a carefully restored 18th-century townhouse.

"We have a net benefit in the regions from EU funding," she said.

The U.K. government in London "didn't care," the 46-year-old added. "But because of the deprivation levels, the EU was the one that cared and local people and local communities were able to apply for funds."

The EU has contributed to several projects in and around Margate, including the Turner Contemporary art gallery, which opened in 2011 and has become a major tourist draw.

A crop of quaint cafes and hip shops have since sprung up in the Old Town district, contrasting with the decaying atmosphere of the modern Main Street only a short walk away.

At a nearby bank, Greek priest Vissarion Kokliotis, 44, embodies Margate's opposing views on Brexit.

"I don't believe in the EU. You cannot take 28 different carpets, stitch them together and make a nice carpet," he said, as he helped newly arrived compatriots to open a bank account.

They had come to work in Britain to escape Greece's debt crisis by taking advantage of the EU's free movement of labor, but were now worried Brexit would force them to return home.

Kokliotis said he was confident there would be no major changes in post-Brexit Britain.

"I will be praying for the future of this country," he said.


a bunch of pics mixed in at this link
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/brexit-begins-today-what-an-english-seaside-town-thinks-about-the-looming-divorce/ar-BByZT9a?li=BBnbcA1

[Irene]

We want our country's (US) sovereignty and our citizens respected and not abused. If it takes Isolationism to accomplish that then so be it.

There is nothing Dark Age about putting your foot down and saying you've had enough of the bulls**t that comes with open borders. It's common-f***ing-sense.

[space otter]

ah Irene maybe you should be saying I instead of we  in your statements below since it is your opinion and not fact

just to clarify and not start an argument with you
and i said i was wondering what the future would say when looking back at this time and the question was would some in that far distance think of this as a second dark age..
i did not say it was one

your post oozes anger and pain  wheather it is just that i piss you off or the subject matter that i post. does  ....it (your anger)  doesn't hurt me, but i need to say this to you.. if you haven't already figured it out
the anger and pain you exhibit only acts as nourishment for those you say you are in bondage to..which makes a nasty circle of more pain..
i would suggest that you try and find something that gives you joy in some way
and then  gather something that makes you happy often

i am not your enemy
be good to yourself
hugs

[zorgon]

Immigration is a two edged sword.  No country can maintain its standard of living and way of life if the percentage of immigrants from another culture is too high

Without mentioning names certain nations have ruined their own countries and take that baggage with them.  If you allow large floods of a specific group numbering in the 10's of 1000's there is no way for any country to absorb such and influx especially when those 10's of 1000's have no money or jobs and must rely on the people living in that country to foot the bill  at a time when their own country and jobs is already stressed with an all time low job security and income level

You say Dark Ages?  Well when you open the floodgates without ANY controls and checks in place you will be flooded and things will slip back into the way things were in the dark ages...

It used to be a country opened its doors to people who wanted to ESCAPE a way of life and start a new life in a free civilized country. These people adopted the ways of thei new host home and were proud to be part of it

but today we do not see such a conversion  Today we see illegal aliens protesting immigration waving the flag of THEIR country, demanding we accept THEIR way of life, while stomping on and burning the flags of heir host country

That anyone cannot see the folly in this is beyond me... it leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.  Funny thing though how many of those people saying "let them come!!!" are offering a spare room in THEIR house?

I am getting old... I won't be here to see the outcome of this... (unless they cure old age and I am allowed to partake of that pill ) but mark my words... it is the end of Western Society as we know it

Decline and Fall of the American Empire will be the next movie  (I claim title rights )  I don't think anything can stop it now.

Pimander told us a while back that his home of Nottingham is predominately foreigners now. Old English Pubs are closing in that town and a British Lad was attacked because he was an atheist...

Dark Ages indeed  but at least I have one thing going for me... I and my kids are experts with the Sword...  and my 'support group' is over 40,000 strong, all with sharp swords

So if things get Medieval  we are ready 

[space otter]

well   i think you have both misunderstood  where i was coming from..which anymore,  seems to be normal in my timeline

I am getting old... I won't be here to see the outcome of this... (unless they cure old age and I am allowed to partake of that pill ) but mark my words... it is the end of Western Society as we know it

yeah i'm getting old too and i also agree that it's already past saving  western society
it's pretty much doomed....
and with that i was saying ... i wondered if years later.. if anyone had history then ...would they look upon this as the second dark ages
western society has been a shining star for those wanting to  have a better life with the freedom to work hard for it....that seems to have ended for all the reasons you listed

now do i think all folks are bad.. no i think most folks are good but circumstances have pushed them to being angry and violent and mostly scared

but with what is happening in this and other places the laws  of the lands are going to make it harder and harder to find that cherished freedom we had here
that opportunity to make a  good place for yourself ....
so with that gone and civilization going to monarchs and dictators..would that be looked on as dark ages.. to me it would because  the loss of my freedom would be a mortal blow...
and the fact that my comment  has been jumped on as something it wasn't  kinda proves a point.. i am very sorry to say that but it seems that's where we are now..
drawing swords at comments we misconstrue..very very sad

[Eighthman]

Has anyone ever wondered if Aliens limit or control our reincarnation because they don't want us ending up in their realms?  Like we're just barbarians and that's the last thing they need?

I wonder about weird stuff like that as I observe the jaw-dropping failure of refugees to assimilate into the EU.  So, the Greys show us some light and dead relatives and emphasize karmic guilt and keep us here..... 

Yeah, Empires rise and fall. Folks get tired of the Stoicism that strong nation hood requires ( like Rome). When some people knock my ideas about Russia/China becoming dominant, I can ask, "what makes a strong nation? Could these two become, in effect, the last real nations on earth?".  If elites weaken national culture, spill in refugees who aren't required to integrate and recommend enfeeblement, what's left of a "nation"?  It's just a mob looking for entitlements - which the elites increasingly can't provide.

[Irene]

Okay Otter,

My country is being invaded and its citizens are being grossly abused both physically and financially.

Yes, I'm livid, and I have every right to be. The elected have, for years, sat on their fat a**es and acted almost always in the interests of our enemies and those who invade us instead of for citizens like me.

I want my country back. That's one reason I voted for Trump. The US needs radical change. I see Trump as one man who might accomplish this. He is not a politician in the traditional sense.

Yes, I'M PISSED.

[Irene]

Has anyone ever wondered if Aliens limit or control our reincarnation because they don't want us ending up in their realms?  Like we're just barbarians and that's the last thing they need?

I wonder about weird stuff like that as I observe the jaw-dropping failure of refugees to assimilate into the EU.  So, the Greys show us some light and dead relatives and emphasize karmic guilt and keep us here..... 

Yeah, Empires rise and fall. Folks get tired of the Stoicism that strong nation hood requires ( like Rome). When some people knock my ideas about Russia/China becoming dominant, I can ask, "what makes a strong nation? Could these two become, in effect, the last real nations on earth?".  If elites weaken national culture, spill in refugees who aren't required to integrate and recommend enfeeblement, what's left of a "nation"?  It's just a mob looking for entitlements - which the elites increasingly can't provide.

The entity(ies) in control definitely limit the hell out of us. Intellectually, our talents are strongly suppressed. The intellectual/spiritual levels of shamans are proof of this, as is the war on drugs, which is to limit our access to botanicals that boost our natural abilities to access higher spiritual realms.

Note specifically, the difficulty of reaching higher spiritual levels without pharmaceuticals, natural or otherwise. They are here in our world for a reason, so that we may use them to advance spiritually and intellectually.

I do believe that governmental officials in the military and at the highest classified levels in our government are complicit with this entity or entities in keeping us "down on the ground", so to speak.