Domestic CCTV Cameras

[astr0144]

Has anyone ever had any issues or concerns with neighbors who may have Domestic CCTV cameras ?

I can see the two main concerns FOR and Against...depending if it is any of us for eg who may want to install one...

or if you were the neighbor who was concerned about seeing your next door neighbors camera. and would either prefer or insist that they take it down. or remove it..
for eg, if you lived in an area where houses were relatively close and your next door neighbor placed a camera
that could be pointing towards your own property in some way.

and you had privacy issues and concerns...This Govt website suggests that they should ask their neighbors permission..

BUT what if the neighbor does not get on  or disagrees and they insist in keeping or using  it.
What if anything would one consider doing ?

I assume there is NO direct LAW in ref to it that is valid ... and calling the Police or Council may not be an option.
Would you put up with it... or maybe consider doing something about it..?

For eg... IF it really annoyed you... you could arrange to have it removed.. either by yourself or from someone else. or even damage it somehow.

As long as you dont face the camera when doing so.. or at least do not show who you are..such as cover up
ones face and wear something to cover you up..

Would one chance doing so..It may depend who you neighbor is... such as IF they are much larger than you or have a large family..It could be a risk if they were to find out..

The neighbor who insisted on using the camera could also move it to a place where its hard to remove or damage.

If the concerned neighbor does not get them to remove it...

Then they may have to do certain things that may annoy their neighbor...

such as, Build a Higher wall  create a form of cover iin the area where the camera may point to ... to make
hard for them to be observed when they want to say go out of their back gate observed or undected..

BUT one may also see it as a form of harrashment..

I was recently made aware of an incident where someone had a debt collection company come into their
back  yard door and tried to open a window...where it could be suggested that they were breaking the law.
as they are are supposed to only enter if the door or window is left open... when in this case they was not.

IF the house own had a camera as such... That was able to record this.... then that could be to their advantage.
or if they did not and their  neighbor  had a camera... depending if you got on with them... Their camera may catch the footage if you did not have a camera  yourself.

BUT if they  did not get on with your neighbor... the neighbor may use the footage against them in some way..
such as if the person being targeted responded, verbally or physically and it got recorded... then...they could have
a problem..

Some of the debt collectors (DC) now wear cameras... so there is more and more surveilance no matter how we look at it... so they also have recorded it also..

These debt collectors are not suposed to contact a debtors neighbors, but they may still do so...
or in some cases if the neighbors  see them turn up and dont get on with their debter neighbor... they may
offer to pass on any info to the DCA ...(Debt Collection Agency)

It could be a  Bit of an awkward situation.

Also these cameras can have microphones on them.

Another suggestion maybe... that the person concerned should also install a similar camera...
and see how their neighbors may respond...!

or maybe try to negotiate and send a letter if one does not want to talk direct with them...
to explain and to say if they wont remove it that you will also have to  install one...
and point it toward their house..

3.2 How your CCTV system affects others

It is important to consider the privacy of others. Ask yourself:

    where will I position the CCTV to minimise intrusion into my neighbours' and other people's privacy?
    will the range of the cameras include my neighbours' property, gardens, pavements or other areas? If so, you could consider systems that can reduce intrusion, such as those which have privacy filters
    how will my neighbours feel about my CCTV?

3.3 Letting people know about your CCTV system

Ensure that you are transparent to those around you when installing your CCTV system. You can do this by:

    informing your neighbour(s) about your system
    putting up a notice informing people that recording is taking place

3.4 Taking responsibility for your CCTV system

If you are thinking of installing a CCTV system on your property, and it records images beyond your private domestic property, you must be aware of your responsibilities:

    it is your responsibility to make sure that the CCTV system is installed correctly
    you are also responsible for all the information that is recorded by your system
    you must make sure that the information is not used for any other purpose than protecting your property
    make sure you read the manual, and if necessary, ask your installer to show you how to operate it and how to export footage if required
    you will need to be aware of individuals' data protection rights and make sure you take steps to allow the people you record to exercise these rights effectively (for example, you will need to respond appropriately to any subject access requests you receive from the people you record)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property?msclkid=d24934ebaddc11ecbe148eceb303d5cd

[ArMaP]

In Portugal we have laws regarding surveillance cameras, and one of the things they cannot do is point them to other people's property.

I suppose the UK also has some laws regarding that.

[Ellirium113]

Get your own camera or fake and mount it pointing directly at their bedroom window with a sign that says "GAME ON!"

[astr0144]

As far as I am aware.. I do not think that there are any Official Laws in the UK, that one could report or ask to
be enforced.

I think that there are just some Guidelines that the Govt suggest. which I had posted a link to.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property?msclkid=d24934ebaddc11ecbe148eceb303d5cd

In Portugal we have laws regarding surveillance cameras, and one of the things they cannot do is point them to other people's property.

I suppose the UK also has some laws regarding that.

Thanks for your thoughts / suggestion E113.

That maybe a worth while option to consider trying.
Another maybe to try to arrange a few anonomous letters.. or short worded notes
as other neigbours across the way may also have concerns.

Ellirium113

Get your own camera or fake and mount it pointing directly at their bedroom window with a sign that says "GAME ON!"

[hurchel]

In the US, in the state I live in order to prove or press charges against a criminal who attempts to break in or has stolen from you, you must have it on camera to pursue charges or a court case.

Debt collectors cannot contact you any other way other than phone, of course if they have obtained a legal civil judgement, they can seize wages, property, i.e. car repossessions...

However a lender can seize his unpaid liened property, without a judgement, then you see car repossession companies that are hired...

Anyway I have A Lorex system, with 4 cameras only for my property, it would be unkosher to point it at your neighbors, but doesn't Britain use CCTV everywhere?

[astr0144]

I note your reply Hurcel,

I can see two side to the Domestic home or General overall CCTV use as there are no doubt times when capturing something on them is to  ones advantage.

and I can certainly accept that people who live in richer  areas or own more expensive  properties   probably consider that they have a better reason to use it. and seem to much more use them from what I have noticed in areas where I live....

From what I think I observe, some areas hardly use them and others area thet are popular.

But in the area for this particular incident it  is more of a Working class area...where  Few people have domestic cameras.also the houses are closer together.

so in this case the person/s who has installed their camera. who used to be I think in the Military and may had been  in security...has  for what ever reason has decided to install one. (But they had lived their a few years without one)

The person next door to them who is concerned...does NOT get on with them, and did have some thing happen a day or two before.when someone had come into their back yard uninvited... and when that happened as far as they was aware their next door (Camera) neighbor was not in at the time either...although there was another neighbor on the other side who was in at the time.

So then a day or so later the person or neighbor who was not in... then has installed a camera.

Was this pure coincidence or was they informed... and has done so valid reason or  for spite .. which the person who has the concerning issues suspects so. there is a bit of a past story to his life where some neighbors may have taken  some negitive view on him..based on just pure hear say.. where Mud can stick. but that was from a long time ago BUT what ever ,does that excuse any who may decide to do something to harrash him.

So NOW the harrasher neighbor can monitor what ever the concerned neighbor may do or detect if they go out of the back of  the house , even if at night...so they could be seen as keeping an eye on him and feeding anything to any of his other past harrashers who live in the area.

Also the Camera is pointing to two other neighbors across the way..who do not have cameras.

The concerned neighbor.. went out at night and used a LONG stick... to be able to  reach across the wall to the other neighbors camera to see  if anything would happen.. and on doing so it lit up and shined a bright light onto
the area where it probably records... and the light was going into his property and onto his back gate...

so if he wants to go out undected , he can no longer do so..Sometimes he does NOT want to go out the front of the house for what ever reason and chooses to go out the back.

He is tempted to knock the camera down...with frustration....but is concerned of the possible consequences.

In situations like that... thats where I do have concerns about such cameras.. as NO should be able to hold others
to ramsom in any sort of way.

He does think however that the camera may not alert the neighbor when he used the stick as there was NO sound made and  the neighbor did not come out... but some cameras do create an alarm or or record maybe when they come on.

Also when the camera light comes on... I assume if the camera owner has the right equipment that it records the time it occurred. BUT it MAY not sound any sort of alarm.

He believes that he can cover the camera up by say placing a black plastic bag over it ... from the long stick.
then may go out at night and then remove the bag when he comes back. But its an hassel fot him to do that..
and if the camera owner was alerted.. anything could happen.

The other option he is considering is to build sort of cover over his back gate area...
maybe even if its just with some sort of camoflauge light weight material...rather than say to
build with a whole wood type cover.

He thinks that the camera is wifi operated...and wonders if there is a way to stop the camera working thru some electronic means. if he say wants to go out undetcted.

I dont know enough about wifi to advise him on that. but I suspect that there maybe  some ways to effect the signal.

When I tried to look up and check what unkosher means, I could NOT easily find a meaning that I would have expected, but can take a guess for now..  (I assume it means something like, Would not point the camera towards a neighbors property  out of respect for others privacy)

In the US, in the state I live in order to prove or press charges against a criminal who attempts to break in or has stolen from you, you must have it on camera to pursue charges or a court case.

Debt collectors cannot contact you any other way other than phone, of course if they have obtained a legal civil judgement, they can seize wages, property, i.e. car repossessions...

However a lender can seize his unpaid liened property, without a judgement, then you see car repossession companies that are hired...

Anyway I have A Lorex system, with 4 cameras only for my property, it would be unkosher to point it at your neighbors, but doesn't Britain use CCTV everywhere?

[hurchel]

I note your reply Hurcel,

I can see two side to the Domestic home or General overall CCTV use as there are no doubt times when capturing something on them is to  ones advantage.

and I can certainly accept that people who live in richer  areas or own more expensive  properties   probably consider that they have a better reason to use it. and seem to much more use them from what I have noticed in areas where I live....

From what I think I observe, some areas hardly use them and others area thet are popular.

But in the area for this particular incident it  is more of a Working class area...where  Few people have domestic cameras.also the houses are closer together.

so in this case the person/s who has installed their camera. who used to be I think in the Military and may had been  in security...has  for what ever reason has decided to install one. (But they had lived their a few years without one)

The person next door to them who is concerned...does NOT get on with them, and did have some thing happen a day or two before.when someone had come into their back yard uninvited... and when that happened as far as they was aware their next door (Camera) neighbor was not in at the time either...although there was another neighbor on the other side who was in at the time.

So then a day or so later the person or neighbor who was not in... then has installed a camera.

Was this pure coincidence or was they informed... and has done so valid reason or  for spite .. which the person who has the concerning issues suspects so. there is a bit of a past story to his life where some neighbors may have taken  some negitive view on him..based on just pure hear say.. where Mud can stick. but that was from a long time ago BUT what ever ,does that excuse any who may decide to do something to harrash him.

So NOW the harrasher neighbor can monitor what ever the concerned neighbor may do or detect if they go out of the back of  the house , even if at night...so they could be seen as keeping an eye on him and feeding anything to any of his other past harrashers who live in the area.

Also the Camera is pointing to two other neighbors across the way..who do not have cameras.

The concerned neighbor.. went out at night and used a LONG stick... to be able to  reach across the wall to the other neighbors camera to see  if anything would happen.. and on doing so it lit up and shined a bright light onto
the area where it probably records... and the light was going into his property and onto his back gate...

so if he wants to go out undected , he can no longer do so..Sometimes he does NOT want to go out the front of the house for what ever reason and chooses to go out the back.

He is tempted to knock the camera down...with frustration....but is concerned of the possible consequences.

In situations like that... thats where I do have concerns about such cameras.. as NO should be able to hold others
to ramsom in any sort of way.

He does think however that the camera may not alert the neighbor when he used the stick as there was NO sound made and  the neighbor did not come out... but some cameras do create an alarm or or record maybe when they come on.

Also when the camera light comes on... I assume if the camera owner has the right equipment that it records the time it occurred. BUT it MAY not sound any sort of alarm.

He believes that he can cover the camera up by say placing a black plastic bag over it ... from the long stick.
then may go out at night and then remove the bag when he comes back. But its an hassel fot him to do that..
and if the camera owner was alerted.. anything could happen.

The other option he is considering is to build sort of cover over his back gate area...
maybe even if its just with some sort of camoflauge light weight material...rather than say to
build with a whole wood type cover.

He thinks that the camera is wifi operated...and wonders if there is a way to stop the camera working thru some electronic means. if he say wants to go out undetcted.

I dont know enough about wifi to advise him on that. but I suspect that there maybe  some ways to effect the signal.

When I tried to look up and check what unkosher means, I could NOT easily find a meaning that I would have expected, but can take a guess for now..  (I assume it means something like, Would not point the camera towards a neighbors property  out of respect for others privacy)

Astro,  have you guys just asked your neighbor why he got the cameras and tell him you would appreciate it if his cameras did not impede upon your privacy?

There is no more personal privacy...

The person was probably robbed in the past...

My cameras are digital, they record sound and motion, they record on a SD card, by date and time, when it gets full I reformat it.

It is kind of paranoid to worry so much, live your life right, people have a right to protect themselves and their belongings.  If privacy is a problem get out of the city....

Don't be poking a mans cameras......

[ArMaP]

Astro,  have you guys just asked your neighbor why he got the cameras and tell him you would appreciate it if his cameras did not impede upon your privacy?

You could also remind him that, because their cameras are pointing outside his property, he is subjected to GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation), with all the possible huge fines resulting from not following it properly.

[astr0144]

Initially and with reasonble whom I think we may get on with, that may have been a consideration,
but in this case. we dont think he installed down what you suggest.

and the two neighbors have some past issues. and they do not speak to each other.
and the guy concerned is a bit of a bully.

Also having trying to  do some reseach, I do not think that you can by any laws win the rights to have it removed,
and it would also be hard to prove if the camera owner did it in spite rather than just security reasons.

Its also a bit tricky as to how and where he has positioned it. Its quite high up, probably more so than it would need to be... and as it points at his gate... the others neighbors gate and back yard / wall is close to that.
IF the camera was at a Height below the Gates highest point or below the wall height... then it may not had been
as bad as a problem....also we dont know for sure if it records sound or just image. BUT listening in to someone next door is also an issue...

and we dont know enough about cameras in terms of say how wide a field it may actually observe or record
BUT I assume it uses motion detection and when alerted a light comes on and you can see where the light shines.
but whether the camera actually can obsevere that same area , I dont know.

Unfortunatley at there is some paranoia involved with the non camera neighbor over something that happened to
him sometime ago that has involved also some people in the area, of whom the Camera owner may well be connected to them and he may have spying for them to inform them or someone else he has some concerns with when he left the house. Its a complex situation.

The other side of the coin on your views maybe, what if you had a neighbor that you did not get on with and
they had a camera looking onto your back gate or entrance.

The non Camera neighbor has been investigating if he can block off the back gate / wall  area from from the camera, which be another option. BUT it will put him to a lot of messing around , time and expense.

YES... I think I read somewhere that the UK may have the most CCTV cameras on the planet.
FOR those who dislike or oppose them, its become a nightmare.

BUT also people are now probably more brain washed into accepting them. they dont have any choice in most cases. others than ones own choice to use of them or not.

Astro,  have you guys just asked your neighbor why he got the cameras and tell him you would appreciate it if his cameras did not impede upon your privacy?

There is no more personal privacy...
The person was probably robbed in the past...

My cameras are digital, they record sound and motion, they record on a SD card, by date and time, when it gets full I reformat it.

It is kind of paranoid to worry so much, live your life right, people have a right to protect themselves and their belongings.  If privacy is a problem get out of the city....

Don't be poking a mans cameras......

Although Data protection has been brought into the UK.. I doubt that one win a case on that basis for camera issues... IT may be worth a try to enquire further into it.

BUT on an article that I posted from the GOVT... although it does refer to suggesting you ask a neighbors permission... I  dont think its an enforced law.

You could also remind him that, because their cameras are pointing outside his property, he is subjected to GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation), with all the possible huge fines resulting from not following it properly.