Police - America, YOU are the Enemy

[zorgon]

Police - America, YOU are the Enemy

Disclaimer:

This is not meant as a 'Bash the Police' thread. In most cases the LEO's treat people fairly and they do have a lot of danger to face in the line of duty.

That said, I would HOPE that any decent dedicated LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) would be just as, if not more so, outraged at the ones who cross the line and treat the American public as the criminal.

We could just remain silent, and chalk up the cases to a few bad apples in the bunch. But if we become complacent and just allow it to continue, then we only have ourselves to blame when our freedoms are taken away.

There are many videos and stories around the internet. Some naturally are biased and one really needs to look at both sides of the case before making judgement... but some are clear cut and just plain WRONG

So I will start off with the latest one I saw today..

Police Handcuff NBC Chicago Photojournalist


A Chicago Police Officer handcuffs two members of the media outside Mt. Sinai Hospital, warning their First Amendment rights can be terminated.

Chicago police took two members of the media into custody Saturday, including an NBC Chicago photographer.

Photographer Donte Williams and WGN Reporter Dan Ponce were detained as they attempted to cover the story of a 6-year-old girl who was shot and killed. Crews were standing on a sidewalk outside Mt. Sinai Hospital, where the girl had been taken.

The hospital apparently called police, complaining of trespassers. The news crews, at the request of police officers, said they had already moved from a public sidewalk directly in front of the hospital, to a median halfway across the street.

But police disputed that, saying hospital security guards told them news crews had tried to get past them into a secure area of the hospital. Reporters say they did not go into the hospital.

"I went over to the hospital with community activist Andrew Holmes and went up to the front door of the hospital. Family members were there and they were obviously upset," said NBC Chicago Reporter Christian Farr. "I stared right at security guards who stared right at me and never said anything to me. I never went into the hospital."

Police Handcuff NBC Chicago Photojournalist - NBC News Chicago

Police held Williams and Ponce for about 10 minutes. The officer who handcuffed them is recorded on camera warning members of the media that their First Amendment rights could be terminated.

"Your First Amendment rights can be terminated if you're creating a scene or whatever," the officer said.

When asked how they were creating a scene, the officer said, "Your presence is creating a scene."

Statement by the Police;

Williams and Ponce were released without any charges. The Chicago Police Department's media relations office, known as News Affairs, later released the following statement:

    "The Chicago Police Department did not charge anyone with criminal trespass in connection with yesterday's incident, which involved the unfortunate and senseless loss of a young child. We removed two individuals from the hospital at the request of hospital security guards, who asserted that the individuals had tried to go past them into secure and private areas of the hospital. The security guards declined to press charges and the individuals were released.

    Our members were attempting to protect and respect both the grieving family members of the child, and the memory of the child herself during a very stressful time for all parties involved.

    As always, we will carefully review the allegations in the event further action is warranted."

We all know the media can be vultures at times but watching that video... sure looks to me like that cop went overboard.

This is the part that concerns me..

"Your First Amendment rights can be terminated if you're creating a scene or whatever," the officer said. When asked how they were creating a scene, the officer said, "Your presence is creating a scene."

[thorfourwinds]

Journalist Assaulted By Trayvon Martin Protestors - YouTube

Published on Jul 15, 2013
Journalist Christian Hartsock is seen on camera talking to police about his assault at the hands of a pro-Trayvon Martin rally in Oakland Sunday July 14th, 2013.


Police retreat from cars surrounded by protestors.

"It's unknown who gave that command."

What a crock!

ALL traffic on police and fire bands is recorded, PERIOD.

Everyone on the radio would have known who in authority gave the command to retreat, or they (hopefully) would not have abandoned fellow human beings to the mercy of the mob.

What if one of those cars just happened to contain a half-dozen police wives on their way to the weekly hospital visit to children and were beset upon by the angry mob, torn asunder and their car set on fire?


Enough is enough.


SpaceMaverick, please weigh in here with your thoughts.

IMHO, that order-giver must be brought up on charges and made an example of so that it does not happen in the future.

And the order-taking police sheeple should be ashamed and resign before someone gets killed as a result of their cowardice and obvious lack of morals and empathy.


We always question authority.   

tfw
Peace Love Light
Liberty & Equality or Revolution

[spacemaverick]

I am currently headed to work in about 30 minutes.  I wish to definitely weigh in on all this and perhaps give a background of the culture I dealt with for 20 years and how that culture has changed, its affect on the public.  Perhaps a thread on police culture could be started.  However caution needs to be thrown to the wind as different departments in different areas have different cultures.  I may be able to weigh in on Thursday.

[The Seeker]

There are good cops and bad; chicago is a cesspool... one big issue I see is the numbers of Ex military becoming LEO's; they are not in combat now and joe sixpack is not the enemy...


Seeker

[spacemaverick]

I would like to address Zorgon's entry above.  I went to the page but could not the video going to see the whole story.  So I will try to make an educated guess on what I think may have happened based my my experience in the law enforcement field.  I spent 20 years in the field of law enforcement and have a son that has spent 15 years in the same field.  Police say that they removed the reporters at the request of the security people because they tried to get into the hospital.  It doesn't say if the sidewalk was on hospital property or not.  If it was on hospital property then the hospital has every right to ask them to leave.  If they are obstructing a public sidewalk that is also a problem but all I saw in the picture one cameraman and one reporter.  Didn't seem like a problem to me.  Yes the reporter is in cuffs but they were held for only 10 minutes and you need only cuff a person if they present a danger to you as an officer.  You can actually hold someone for a reasonable amount of time 30 minutes for a field investigation.  I am going to throw a flag on this one and say the police could have handled this one much better.  If they were on private property then I would have suggested a public area for them to stand and contacted the hospital community relations dept. and ask them to maybe come out and talk with the reporters and let the community relations people tell the reporters that they didn't want to let them in.  It sounds like the police just took the word of security (unless they had video showing the trespass) and the police acted on word alone.  It could have been handled better.  I don't know what the intention of the comment about terminating first amendment rights was but you cannot silence first amendment rights but it can be moved off private property.  If it's a public hospital, that can be a different story.  It could have been handled way differently.  I say an over zealous security force and over zealous police.  You also have to look at the culture of the police force also.  Different departments have different cultures and this influences the way they work.  Not saying it is right, just stating a fact.

[spacemaverick]

Thor,  You are correct about they didn't know about who have the order to retreat.  With radio systems now days when you key up a radio in this digital age (if you have kept up with technology) it will show a logical which identifies a radio which is assigned to a certain officer or supervisor.  Calls are recorded!  Those drivers should have had protection.  The police should have stood against this lawlessness.  A supervisor may have retreated his people because they were overwhelmed by numbers to maintain their safety until he or she could get reinforcements.  That is a judgement call for the supervisor.  The job of a police officer is as basic as you can get.  Protect and serve the public.  You don't do that, then you need to take off that badge and find a different line of work.  Is there a criminal charge in which the ORDER GIVER can be brought up on for giving a retreat order.  I don't know their laws or their policies.  I cannot address that issue.

The protestors, I have no problem with protests but when you break the law to do it, then you have crossed the line.  Obstructing public roadways, looting, beating up people...lock'em up.  Do your job!  You are supposed to be protecting the general public and that means everyone.  If I had been in one of those cars and I knew that these protests were going on, I would have avoided the area as a citizen but then I would wonder, why isn't the police at least trying to quell what is going on.  I suspect they didn't want to cause any more problems (police).  Cowards!  Do your job!  You should not law breakers continue to break the law, you should be protecting the people.  That is your oath!

[spacemaverick]

To the seeker:  You also hit the nail on the head.  I fell victim to that type of attitude when I first went into law enforcement where I thought I was hot stuff.  My military training was that I was trained to kill the enemy and criminals were the enemy and I changed my direction early on because something inside of me told me I was to treat people differently.  Guess it was my upbringing and watching other jackwagons treating people like crap.  I said that was not for me.  (personal decision).  3 academies I went through.  Worked corrections I did.  I was stern with the criminals but treated everyone like a person.  You cross the line and break the rules or the laws then I brought the weight of the law down on you.  You need medical attention or whatever, I'm there for you.  Try to take your emotions out of it and just do your job.  This doesn't always happen but you can try.

The transition from one of Uncle Sam's ex-hired killers to police officer or corrections officer is not an easy one but can be made.  Right now, the services are using private companies to bring police officers who want to go to war zones and make big money into the fray because most have been trained to actually question prisoners/enemy combatants because most are highly trained in this area.  I am not talking about torture techniques either.

Different departments, different police cultures, different responses, not right but just fact.

[spacemaverick]

A little treat for everyone.  The Conservative Treehouse has received documents from the Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman case via FOIA and you will find them here:

http://www.scribd.com/thelastrefuge/documents

This includes texts from Martin and on and on.  I bookmarked this so I could go in a look over the documents.  Very interesting read.

[zorgon]

The protestors, I have no problem with protests but when you break the law to do it, then you have crossed the line.  Obstructing public roadways, looting, beating up people...lock'em up.  Do your job!

THIS is exactly the problem... police that do not understand the difference

Protesters:  "Obstructing public roadways..."

Rioters: "looting, beating up people..."

There was once a time when you could be arrested for gathering on a public street... then came the CONSTITUTION. The RIGHT to assemble peacefully.  The United States Constitution explicitly provides for 'the right of the people peaceably to assemble



"Obstructing public roadways..." is about the only way a large mass of people can protest. as you are not allowed on private property

These days a peaceful protest is treated the same way as a riot. "looting, beating up people..." yeah arrest them... but shooting rubber bullets and tear gas into crowds of peaceful protesters?  That is a sure way to turn a protest into a riot and nest time I might bring a gun

You are supposed to be protecting the general public and that means everyone. If I had been in one of those cars and I knew that these protests were going on, I would have avoided the area as a citizen but then I would wonder, why isn't the police at least trying to quell what is going on.

Were they looting or beating up anyone? or exercising their constitutional right to protest on public property?

[zorgon]

I have had many run ins with police in my life... (mostly as an effect of my Rally car that tended to want to go faster   ) and most of the time the encounter worked out peacefully. In fact back then police in general would talk to you like a citizen and not assume you were a criminal automatically. They would even be polite and say sir...

Now I realize that today here in the US many people they stop will act like assholes, but that is no excuse.

I had two incidents here in Las Vegas that demonstrate the new attitude

1) Dropped my daughter off at work... she was late so I had left my wallet in the house.  As I drove home a cop was behind me on the last few blocks. I saw him, but he put on mo lights and I had done nothing wrong so I didn't pay attention. I turned the corner onto my street and made a uturn to park in front of my house as I always do.  At this point  as I was half way in the uturn he nearly rammed my car (still no lights) drew his gun and told me to turn off the engine. WTF?

Well he came up and asked for the license... I said I left it in the house but could just go get it as I was in front of the house. Well he didn't like that and called it in He told me he thought I was turning on him to run when I did that uturn... Ummm really? you never turned on your lights to let me know you were stopping me.

In the end he apologized when it came back that my plates were from that house. I didn't report it... I probably should have.

Why did he stop me and pull a gun on me?

My TAIL LIGHT was out....

2) We were sitting in the living room with friends... just came in from the pool...  suddenly there was a helicopter and several cop cars in the area...   a few minutes later there was a cop in the yard...  We had put the dogs into the garage for the night and heard them bark so my wife goes into the garage to check... gets a flashlight in the face, guy says he is a cop and she is told to go back inside. He was in the garage with a canine. Fortunately our dogs were in their cages for the night or they might have been shot.

I went out to the cop in the back and was told they were searching for a gang banger with a gun that was reported to be jumping fences

NO ONE knocked on the door to ask to search or tell us what was going on. NO ONE explained why he was in my garage until I called in the next day. I wasn't about to do anything with all these GOONS invading my property with guns drawn.

So then the next morning before I called to find out WTF was going on... I get a knock on the door and two detectives wanted to know about the Meth Lab in my garage...  Now these two were very polite and explained what had happenedd last night... that the cop that was looking for the perp had seen my side door to the garage open and decided to check if he was hiding in the garage.  He saw my mineral assay lab and immediately assumes it must be a meth lab.

Okay so since it was easy proof I showed the detectives and that issue was solved. I also told them I was pissed at the intrusions and got the captains number.  In the end I got a written letter of apology and verbal apologies from the cop and did not pursue it.

But that is two strikes... they have used up their credit... next time I will sue their ass

And then we see THIS in the local news... Note the first we heard of this was when it went to COURT in the law suit. Never heard it when it happened

Police Commandeer Homes, Get Sued - Courthouse News Service

"On the morning of July 10th, 2011, officers from the Henderson Police Department responded to a domestic violence call at a neighbor's residence," the Mitchells say in the complaint.
     It continues: "At 10:45 a.m. defendant Officer Christopher Worley (HPD) contacted plaintiff Anthony Mitchell via his telephone. Worley told plaintiff that police needed to occupy his home in order to gain a 'tactical advantage' against the occupant of the neighboring house. Anthony Mitchell told the officer that he did not want to become involved and that he did not want police to enter his residence. Although Worley continued to insist that plaintiff should leave his residence, plaintiff clearly explained that he did not intend to leave his home or to allow police to occupy his home. Worley then ended the phone call.
     Mitchell claims that defendant officers, including Cawthorn and Worley and Sgt. Michael Waller then "conspired among themselves to force Anthony Mitchell out of his residence and to occupy his home for their own use." (Waller is identified as a defendant in the body of the complaint, but not in the heading of it.)
     The complaint continues: "Defendant Officer David Cawthorn outlined the defendants' plan in his official report: 'It was determined to move to 367 Evening Side and attempt to contact Mitchell. If Mitchell answered the door he would be asked to leave. If he refused to leave he would be arrested for Obstructing a Police Officer. If Mitchell refused to answer the door, force entry would be made and Mitchell would be arrested.'"
     At a few minutes before noon, at least five defendant officers "arrayed themselves in front of plaintiff Anthony Mitchell's house and prepared to execute their plan," the complaint states.
     It continues: "The officers banged forcefully on the door and loudly commanded Anthony Mitchell to open the door to his residence.
     "Surprised and perturbed, plaintiff Anthony Mitchell immediately called his mother (plaintiff Linda Mitchell) on the phone, exclaiming to her that the police were beating on his front door.
     "Seconds later, officers, including Officer Rockwell, smashed open plaintiff Anthony Mitchell's front door with a metal ram as plaintiff stood in his living room.
     "As plaintiff Anthony Mitchell stood in shock, the officers aimed their weapons at Anthony Mitchell and shouted obscenities at him and ordered him to lie down on the floor.
     "Fearing for his life, plaintiff Anthony Mitchell dropped his phone and prostrated himself onto the floor of his living room, covering his face and hands.
     "Addressing plaintiff as 'asshole', officers, including Officer Snyder, shouted conflicting orders at Anthony Mitchell, commanding him to both shut off his phone, which was on the floor in front of his head, and simultaneously commanding him to 'crawl' toward the officers.
     "Confused and terrified, plaintiff Anthony Mitchell remained curled on the floor of his living room, with his hands over his face, and made no movement.
     "Although plaintiff Anthony Mitchell was lying motionless on the ground and posed no threat, officers, including Officer David Cawthorn, then fired multiple 'pepperball' rounds at plaintiff as he lay defenseless on the floor of his living room. Anthony Mitchell was struck at least three times by shots fired from close range, injuring him and causing him severe pain." (Parentheses in complaint.)
     Officers then arrested him for obstructing a police officer, searched the house and moved furniture without his permission and set up a place in his home for a lookout, Mitchell says in the complaint.
     He says they also hurt his pet dog for no reason whatsoever: "Plaintiff Anthony Mitchell's pet, a female dog named 'Sam,' was cowering in the corner when officers smashed through the front door. Although the terrified animal posed no threat to officers, they gratuitously shot it with one or more pepperball rounds. The panicked animal howled in fear and pain and fled from the residence. Sam was subsequently left trapped outside in a fenced alcove without access to water, food, or shelter from the sun for much of the day, while temperatures outside soared to over 100 degrees Fahrenheit."

Wednesday, July 03, 2013Last Update: 10:27 AM PT
https://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/03/59061.htm

So they won't be selling ME any more tickets to the policeman's ball

[Somamech]

Although this is not in America but for the most part The Colony's law's seem to reflect each other regarding right to protest. (apart from the legal ownership of a trunk load of weapons compared to the illegal ownership of Boot load of weapons LOL)

I was at this protest back in 1998 on a PUBLIC ROAD, and may be in the video somewhere... Police were in general ok, but I did witness a few occasions where the mounted police (Cops on stolen Peggys/horse's) let loose on the crowd who were peaceful.  The goal of that protest was to blockade the building so the person in question could not enter.  Achievement unlocked.  Sadly the media reported that night on the news that we were violent, which was far from the case as I was standing only a few meter's from the footage they used of one of the people who we were blocking who was A supporter of the Polytick's we were blocking. This guy started swinging punches at someone that was speaking calmly, and got a right good old ham sandwich in reply     End result though was that the media portrayed people protesting as evil, and facist's as the victim



EDIT: Now I see why roads are being privatized  

[spacemaverick]

Things are really changing.  That's one of the reasons I got out.  I don't like what the new recruits are being taught.  Hell, I'm a law enforcement retiree and I can't get any love my own either.  My record is spotless.