Chem/contrail?

[thorfourwinds]

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http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1544.msg111558#msg111558

[thorfourwinds]

Chemtrails Over Las Vegas Reported as Biological Attack « Chemtrails: The Exotic Weapon


Aluminum, Barium, and Chemtrails Explained - JUST THE FACTS | Climate Viewer News

[thorfourwinds]

Join THOR & Sam Turner & the Cactus Cats 6/9 at Rudyards in Houston TX

thornews
Published on Jun 8, 2017
We've got a Strawberry Full Moon & the good energy of Jupiter going Direct, so join me live & in person as Sam Turner & the Cactus Cats kick off the Summer of Love, Romance & Rock n Roll with their LP release party at Rudyard's British Pub in Houston TX from 8pm - Midnight.

[ArMaP]

ArMaP, I note that You did not address My observation that contrails NEVER did that before that late 1980's.  I used to watch the contrails and wish They would stay but they NEVER did.

The fact that you didn't see them doesn't mean that they didn't exist. I was always interested in aeroplanes and I am always looking at the sky, and I remember seeing contrails since I started looking at the sky, both the short-lived as the long-lived ones, although those are still not very common here.

You also didn't address the soil samples.

It means nothing without more information. Does that happen all over the world? How high is the concentration? What other elements appear? Are the concentrations and elements the same in all places?

And the nanoparticulates are small enough to stay in the air a decent while, and eventually do fall to the earth - as the soil samples show.

First of all, the soil samples do not show the source of the nanoparticulates. And yes, the fact that nanoparticulates are small (which is obvious, considering the meaning of "nano") makes them fall slowly, and exactly because of that makes targeting a specific place almost impossible, as the trajectory of the nanoparticulates will be changed by any disturbance in the air currents, from the altitude from which they are dropped (if they are dropped) until they reach the ground. For such small particles even the fact that a flock of pigeons flies above a specific area or not will make the particles move to a different place or not.

As for how the titanium added to that spray would work...  Titanium burns easily in the nanoparticulate form, and VERY hotly.  That's how.

Depending on the concentration of titanium and aluminium particles, I suppose we would get two different reactions, with just a few particles per square centimetre not being enough to make a fire burn hotter, as such small particles burn almost instantly and a higher concentration resulting in explosions, as titanium and aluminium dust burn as fast as gun powder.

But I'm not a fire-fighter and I don't have any real experience with fires, the above is just my opinion, based on what I (suppose) I know.

PS: after some searches on the Internet I found that when titanium reaches 700º C or more, it reacts with water by releasing hydrogen from the water, and the sudden release of hydrogen creates explosions. As they fight forest fires with water (with or without retardant), I suppose that, if there was titanium burning they would notice.

[Amaterasu]

The fact that you didn't see them doesn't mean that they didn't exist. I was always interested in aeroplanes and I am always looking at the sky, and I remember seeing contrails since I started looking at the sky, both the short-lived as the long-lived ones, although those are still not very common here.

How old are You, ArMaP, if I may ask?  I'm 60, and I am here to tell You, living with a clear view (We lived on the top of a hill) of the San Diego airport on one side, and the Miramar area - which is wide and flat - on the other, I could see many, MANY, MANY planes, daily, both low and high, and again, daily watching the sky (I still do that), I NEVER saw a contrail last more that 5 minutes before vanishing completely.  Ever.  For decades.  Now, the chemtrails are all over San Diego.  Daily.

So I'm not buying the "The fact that you didn't see them doesn't mean that they didn't exist" line.

It means nothing without more information. Does that happen all over the world? How high is the concentration? What other elements appear? Are the concentrations and elements the same in all places?

Here is a site that links to a number of places that offer test results.  Seems it's pretty much a planetary thing:  http://www.activistpost.com/2015/07/aluminum-barium-and-strontium-new.html

First of all, the soil samples do not show the source of the nanoparticulates. And yes, the fact that nanoparticulates are small (which is obvious, considering the meaning of "nano") makes them fall slowly, and exactly because of that makes targeting a specific place almost impossible, as the trajectory of the nanoparticulates will be changed by any disturbance in the air currents, from the altitude from which they are dropped (if they are dropped) until they reach the ground. For such small particles even the fact that a flock of pigeons flies above a specific area or not will make the particles move to a different place or not.

Agreed that the soil samples don't point to source, but what might We deduce from samples under houses and just outside them that show radical differences?  Something must be falling from the sky, and given that nanoaluminum is manufactured, We have to presume that these particles were delivered by Humans.  What the delivery system is, I suppose, may be in question.  But I might surmise that the most likely culprit is the trails.  And given that they are metals, no doubt they can be manipulated to a high degree through the 23+ HAARP-capable facilities around the globe.  Small disturbances like pigeons seem unlikely to make any noticeable difference.

Depending on the concentration of titanium and aluminium particles, I suppose we would get two different reactions, with just a few particles per square centimetre not being enough to make a fire burn hotter, as such small particles burn almost instantly and a higher concentration resulting in explosions, as titanium and aluminium dust burn as fast as gun powder.

After months - or even years - of spraying, I would expect a build-up.  Soil samples seem to suggest that is exactly what We get...

[ArMaP]

How old are You, ArMaP, if I may ask?

54.

I'm 60, and I am here to tell You, living with a clear view (We lived on the top of a hill) of the San Diego airport on one side, and the Miramar area - which is wide and flat - on the other, I could see many, MANY, MANY planes, daily, both low and high, and again, daily watching the sky (I still do that), I NEVER saw a contrail last more that 5 minutes before vanishing completely.  Ever.  For decades.  Now, the chemtrails are all over San Diego.  Daily.

I was born in Lisbon and moved to Almada, on the other side of the Tagus river, in 1970, so I have lived all my life near two airports (one civilian in Lisbon and one air force base in Montijo, some 10 km from Lisbon or Almada) and I used to spend my vacations in a place close to Sintra, that is close to Lisbon and has an air force training base close, so I spent all my life watching planes. No mountains in the area, so I have a clear view of the sky. Also, most flights between South America and Spain and between the Canary Islands and the north European countries like the UK, France and Germany fly over this area, so I see many high flying aeroplanes.

So I'm not buying the "The fact that you didn't see them doesn't mean that they didn't exist" line.

So, you are either calling me a liar or saying that my experience is irrelevant? How nice of you.

Here is a site that links to a number of places that offer test results.  Seems it's pretty much a planetary thing:  http://www.activistpost.com/2015/07/aluminum-barium-and-strontium-new.html

Thanks, but from what I could see it's not from all around the world, as I could find mostly tests the US and UK, only a handful of results from Europe, most on uncontrolled samples and mixed air, water and soil samples, I couldn't see any organized data, and I don't have the time to look through it.

Agreed that the soil samples don't point to source, but what might We deduce from samples under houses and just outside them that show radical differences?

I haven't seen those test on the page you linked to, but I suppose it only shows that the source is in the atmosphere. Is it from rain, low atmosphere or high atmosphere? Who knows.

Something must be falling from the sky, and given that nanoaluminum is manufactured, We have to presume that these particles were delivered by Humans.

No doubt that it has a human source, but what is it? From what we know it could be local air pollution.

What the delivery system is, I suppose, may be in question.  But I might surmise that the most likely culprit is the trails.

Why?

And given that they are metals, no doubt they can be manipulated to a high degree through the 23+ HAARP-capable facilities around the globe.  Small disturbances like pigeons seem unlikely to make any noticeable difference.

Think about it. We are talking about nanoparticles, as smaller as common dust or even smaller, supposedly falling from 10 or 12 km altitudes, through all the air layers between that altitude and the ground. Anything can disturb their trajectory.

After months - or even years - of spraying, I would expect a build-up.  Soil samples seem to suggest that is exactly what We get...

Soil samples (if true) point only to an aerial or water source.

PS: yesterday I saw a persistent contrail.


PPS: one thing I noticed, some sites talk about parts per billion. In those cases you should look at the source of that information, as a billion has different meanings in the US and the rest of the world.

[Amaterasu]

So, you are either calling me a liar or saying that my experience is irrelevant? How nice of you.

OR...  I am saying that I had decades to watch high planes, watched them daily, WISHED the trails would last, and I don't buy the IDEA that they existed back then.  I am calling no One anything, nor discounting anyOne.  Whatever.

[ArMaP]

OR...  I am saying that I had decades to watch high planes, watched them daily, WISHED the trails would last, and I don't buy the IDEA that they existed back then.  I am calling no One anything, nor discounting anyOne.  Whatever.

I said that I saw them, you said you "don't buy the idea that they existed", how is that not calling me a liar or discounting my experience?

[Amaterasu]

I said that I saw them, you said you "don't buy the idea that they existed", how is that not calling me a liar or discounting my experience?

We're from different timelines.

[ArMaP]

We're from different timelines.

Suuuuure, that's more likely than you being wrong. 

Typical.

[zorgon]

, and I don't buy the IDEA that they existed back then.

WWII  the last time there were THOUSANDS of planes in the sky. And they were PROPELLER back then



4 propleller engines  4 contrails per plane



B17 Bombers over Europe...



Dog fight contrails Anti aircraft gunners watching as allied and German planes battle in the sky on Christmas day in 1944. Russia.



Contrails created by the airfoils of the propellers



6 proplellers 6 contrails

[Amaterasu]

Well...  They weren't around San Diego from 1960 to the late 1980's.  I wonder if They were spraying things as a war effort - stopped when there was no war, and then started up again when certain compounds were developed, as a war against Humanity.  Hmmm.

But whatever.  I was wrong.

[thorfourwinds]

Former FBI Chief poisoned for saying Chemtrails - YouTube

Published on Feb 19, 2014

Symptoms indicate that Ted L. Gunderson was poisoned.

"The death dumps, otherwise known as chemical trails, are being dropped and sprayed throughout the United States and England, Scotland, Ireland, and Northern Europe. I have personally seen them not only in the United States, but in Mexico and in Canada. Birds are dying around the world. Fish are dying by the hundreds of thousands around the world.

This is genocide.

This is poison.

This is murder by the United Nations.

This element within our society that is doing this must be stopped.

I happen to know of two of the locations where the airplanes are that dump this crap on us. Four of the planes are out of the Air National Guard in Lincoln, Nebraska. And, the other planes are out of Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

I personally have observed the planes that were standing still in Nebraska -- Lincoln, Nebraska -- at the Air National Guard. They have no markings on them. They are huge, bomber-like airplanes with no markings.

This is a crime: a crime against humanity, a crime against America, a crime against the citizens of this great country. They must be stopped.

What is wrong with congress?

This has an effect on their population, and their people, and their friends, and their relatives, and themselves.

What's wrong with them?

What's wrong with the pilots who are flying these airplanes and dumping this crap, this poison, on their own families? Somebody has to do something about it. Somebody in Congress has to step forward and stop it now.

Thank you. I'm Ted Gunderson."


How about this for some kind of evidence?

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml
Trail Research Report

The goal of this research was to determine if there was a type of trail that was inconsistent with normal contrails, especially with regard to increased persistence.

What was found is that highly persistent trails that last for many hours were seen above Houston, TX on a majority (60%) of observable days during the data collection period.

However during this time period none of the 46 Flight Explorer confirmed contrails observed persisted for over 30 minutes and most contrails were under 30 seconds of persistence.

Additionally it was discovered that the jets that were responsible for leaving highly persistent trails that last for hours did not ever appear on Flight Explorer and were documented for 8 separate instances, including one instance with two jets in formation.

These unidentifiable jets were found to produce a contrail that was consistent with confirmed contrails during the periods when they weren't leaving highly persistent trails. Highly persistent trails are often seen in the form of isolated relatively short strips, as well as large areas of cirrus aviaticus clouds, but on rare occasions have been seen in totally unique grid and wheel formations.

It is hoped that others will endeavor to repeat these observations and publish their results. By repeating the basic observations for persistence length and whether the flight appears on Flight Explorer, it will be seen whether or not a trend emerges confirming the existence of a unique category of trail.

Atmospheric differences due to higher moisture and colder temperatures in different locations will produce greater maximum persistence observed for identifiable traffic.

For those in locations with greatest contrailing potential, the task of collecting data on highly persistent trails from unidentifiable flights will be hardest.

In this research I have gone to great lengths to measure and characterize my observations as accurately as possible in order to provide the clearest representation possible given the resources available.
M Steadham

The evidence: http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml

[zorgon]

Whether or not THEY are spraying anything the fact remains that CONTRAILS are also real

Until people learn the difference between a contrail, a persistant contrail due to weather conditions (the same conditions that create cirrus clouds) and ACTUAL trails created by chemical sprays (usually invisible ) No one will ever take "Chemtrails" seriously

So are you people Contrail Deniers?

[zorgon]

Well...  They weren't around San Diego from 1960 to the late 1980's.

1972, From the book Clouds of the World, by Richard Scorer



Well they WERE  It's just that the Chemtrail conspiracy hadn't started yet so no one really paid attention

I wonder if They were spraying things as a war effort - stopped when there was no war, and then started up again when certain compounds were developed, as a war against Humanity.  Hmmm.

Well the problem with that silly idea is that the contrails came from the propellers  So are you saying the propellers had spray nozzles attached? That would indeed be a neat trick.  DO at least try to use logic 

These Windmills  when conditions are right also produce persistent contrails. Are they spraying too? 

But whatever.  I was wrong.

There ya go

1967 – Plate 113 from Cloud Studies in Colour, Richard Scorer and Harry Wexler.  Shows over 30 contrails, some criss-crossing:



1958, San Fancisco airport: Two persistent contrails cross in the sky.