George Carlin On Mad TV - NASA Moon Landing.

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

"How was the Manhattan Project kept secret?"

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To a very large measure, the secrecy was maintained by compartmentalization. In other words, the project was broken into many isolated sub-projects. Most of the people managing each sub-project knew nothing about the other sub-projects. They would report to a superior, who would provide the information they needed. Within any particular sub-project, workers knew only enough to do their jobs. Only at the very top of the project were there people who knew about the Manhattan Project as a whole.

Outside the project, only very limited number of government officials knew about the Manhattan Project, and they didn't know any details. It's worth noting that even Harry Truman knew nothing about it until he assumed the Presidency after Roosevelt's death in 1945.

War-time security certainly helped. People accepted the need for limitations on what they could be told, and accepted that there were places they couldn't go. I'm sure it bothered people, but attributing things to "the War Effort" went a long way then. One of the popular signs of the times, posted at war factories, military bases and such, read something like, "What you do here, what you see here, what you hear here -- when you leave here, let it stay here." That sort of thinking was quite widespread.

There were security operatives who kept track of people in sensitive jobs. I've read accounts of people on leave (and even civilians in sensitive jobs were limited in what they could do on their time off) being chatted up by friendly, somewhat nosy people asking about their jobs. If you said too much about what you shouldn't have been talking about, you were going to end up having to explain yourself to some not so friendly people when you got back to work. If you were lucky, you might continue to have a well-paid job. I don't know what the worst result might have been, but I suspect it might have involved making license plates in some rural location with a lot of barbed wire fencing.

Yes all of that was true, but we were in a 'World' war at the time and it was understandable for the secrecy. Yet how did the Russians get those 'secrets'? It has been reported that even the Japanese were working on their own Atomic Bomb...so it's not unheard of. But the Apollo project were using many, many private contractors and I find it hard to believe that 50 years past someone, somewhere let the cat out of the bag.
Just my opinion BTW..

Rock 

[ArMaP]

Russo, you do realize that George Carlin is a comedian, and not exactly a source for anything besides laughter???

And even that is debatable.

[RUSSO]

And even that is debatable.

Ok, you may not find him funny. I can see why some people cant have a laught with lots of the important things he touches. Or maybe you actually think he's not that funny because uou disagree with him. Fair enought  in both cases. Tbh i like Bill Hicks more.

[ArMaP]

So, ArMaP and Seeker, can you explain away the sound, orange juice Van Allen Belt controversy?

There's no "orange juice" controversy, the guy in the video states that what we see in the photos is orange juice but:
1 - he doesn't show any evidence that what he says it true;
2 - if it was orange juice they just had to wash the photo to remove it.

As for the "Van Allen Belt controversy", what are you talking about, I didn't see any reference to it in the video.

[ArMaP]

Ok, you may not find him funny. I can see why some people cant have a laught with lots of the important things he touches. Or maybe you actually think he's not that funny because uou disagree with him. Fair enought  in both cases. Tbh i like Bill Hicks more.

I just don't find him funny, like I don't find funny most of what passes for humour in the US.

I don't have any idea of who Bill Hicks is.

[ArMaP]

Too bad ArMaP won't take the time to back up his opinions about the moon landings NOT being a hoax and dissect this video and prove the things presented are not true - or take his usual position that "I don't do videos...".

6 hours of video? I would need to do nothing else with my free time (the time I use to, among other things, to read this forum) during three days to be able to watch those videos.

[ArMaP]

Well, that's all depends on your mindset. You can call that thing below a rock or a weather balloon powered by swamp gas...

I call it a hill, what do you call it?

In the end it all comes up to whom narrative you decide to believe or accept. Some people give credit to government agencies, other people can see more truth in the words of children, like I do, for exemple, in the Ariel school kids event.

I accept all the stories and analyse their supporting evidence. In the case of the Moon landings I haven't seen any evidence that they didn't happen that is stronger than the evidence that they did happen.

[ArMaP]

Most than a simply comedian he was a social critic, spoking it regardless of the taboo of its subject (e.g. government, business, children, religion, death, the human body, human nature, science, celebrity, etc.).  He "reality checked" people, among other things, to see the biggest secret of being human: That being human isn't special or important at all in the grand scheme of things.

The problem I have with people like that is that they present their version as the real one and everything that is not in accord with their version is a lie.

They are just acting like the people the accuse of manipulating the information: believe me and ignore everyone else. That's not critical thinking, critical thinking is taught, not presented as a fact.

[RUSSO]

I call it a hill, what do you call it?

I call that not a hill. Maybe some machine from the guys that visited those kids at Ariel school event (as followed my post you quoted).



I really cant understand how there is still people that still deny alien presence in this planet. But i know how hard is to have their reality shaked.

I accept all the stories and analyse their supporting evidence. In the case of the Moon landings I haven't seen any evidence that they didn't happen that is stronger than the evidence that they did happen.

As Zorgon used to say, It was ever the mindset here that we have gone to the moon. The question ever was if the footage they showed at the time were real or not. I Think they showed just only what it's convenient to them.

[RUSSO]

The problem I have with people like that is that they present their version as the real one and everything that is not in accord with their version is a lie.

And that it HIS disciplined thinking that is clear, rational, open-minded, and informed by evidence he had. What is yours? I did not say you lied. Share what your line of thought that oppose what he saying here:


"Governments don't want a population capable of critical thinking, they want obedient workers, people just smart enough to run the machines and just dumb enough to passively accept their situation.You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They've long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear."

They are just acting like the people the accuse of manipulating the information: believe me and ignore everyone else. That's not critical thinking, critical thinking is taught, not presented as a fact.

I dont agree with you. Per definition critical thinking is the objective analysis of facts to form a judgment. The subject is complex, and several different definitions exist, which generally include the rational, skeptical, unbiased analysis, or evaluation of factual evidence.

So thats HIS judgment from HIS critical thinking on that subject, includes HIS commitment to using reason in the formulation of HIS beliefs, in which, btw I fully agree with him.

[ArMaP]

I call that not a hill. Maybe some machine from the guys that visited those kids at Ariel school event (as followed my post you quoted).

A machine? Why? Even ignoring the fact that it looks like the other hill we see on the video (the original, I din't watch the YouTube video), we don't see any signs of moving parts to call it a machine.

I really cant understand how there is still people that still deny alien presence in this planet. But i know how hard is to have their reality shaked.

I don't deny it, I just haven't seen any clear evidence of it.
And no, I have no problems with having my reality shaken, I'm always prepared for that.

[ArMaP]

And that it HIS disciplined thinking that is clear, rational, open-minded, and informed by evidence he had. What is yours? I did not say you lied. Share what your line of thought that oppose what he saying here:

Who said my point of view is opposed to that quote? In that quote he presents his opinion of, I suppose, US governments and how they control everything in the US, but what I do not like (I'm not opposing any thing, it's just my opinion about his opinion) is when he says "they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear". Not because I think it's not true (I do think it's true, up to a point), but because I think that that way of presenting things makes a division between "they" and "him", with "they" being the bad guys and "him" the saviour that shows the ignorant masses how things are.

So thats HIS judgment from HIS critical thinking on that subject, includes HIS commitment to using reason in the formulation of HIS beliefs, in which, btw I fully agree with him.

What I was saying is that, to me, obviously, critical thinking should be taught, not presented as a fact (or, better explained, the results of critical thinking should not be presented as facts, as they are still just opinions), by teaching how to think critically you allow other people to make their own opinions, by just presenting your opinion you are trying to make them your followers.

[RUSSO]

A machine? Why? Even ignoring the fact that it looks like the other hill we see on the video (the original, I din't watch the YouTube video), we don't see any signs of moving parts to call it a machine.

So ArMaP, if you look at some object like the tic tac, is there any mechanical parts you can see? I dont think so, that's the same logic to me, i consider the tic tac alien as i totally believe what commander fravor reports.



So back to the moon object, looks round  shaped, non natural, alien look ship to me. What else it could be? Does not look like a hill to me at all. Call that a hill sounds like mike west calling the tic tacs seagulls, but that's just my opinion.

And by the way, I know you dont watch videos and thats make a lit bit harder to show you a best point of view as there is so much information that you may be missing by not seeing the report, explanations and implications of what Commander Fravor points out. Even tho, i will post his last interview from yesterday (i know the 4 letter is there but its a minor participation and I thanks to the universe for that) for the other people that may be interest.



Fravor says among other things, there were 5 other objects in a V formation. He accounts of a friend who told him of an event where an USO-type object "sucked in" a torpedo and went under the sea. They never recovered the torpedo, etc...

I don't deny it, I just haven't seen any clear evidence of it.
And no, I have no problems with having my reality shaken, I'm always prepared for that.

Thats good, most people cant deal with paradigm shifts, maybe thats one of the main troubles about public disclosure right?

[RUSSO]

Who said my point of view is opposed to that quote? In that quote he presents his opinion of, I suppose, US governments and how they control everything in the US, but what I do not like (I'm not opposing any thing, it's just my opinion about his opinion) is when he says "they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear". Not because I think it's not true (I do think it's true, up to a point), but because I think that that way of presenting things makes a division between "they" and "him", with "they" being the bad guys and "him" the saviour that shows the ignorant masses how things are.

I understand your point of view but I never see Carlin pointing himself as a savior, only the messenger. And if you think about it he is showing things that at that time way less people were aware of. And regarding as how you present the information, i think its his way of make that more "didactic" and "funny", not to you as i now know, but for people that actually find his way to pass the messages funny. In other words, its his way to make comedy.

"What I was saying is that, to me, obviously, critical thinking should be taught, not presented as a fact (or, better explained, the results of critical thinking should not be presented as facts, as they are still just opinions), by teaching how to think critically you allow other people to make their own opinions, by just presenting your opinion you are trying to make them your followers."

But the mere fact to presenting your critical opinion makes people start to think about a subject. Its not his job to teach a person how to think critically, His job was (or at least what i think he was trying to achieve) to create awareness so people could start to look at it critically. At least, that is my view on this

[ArMaP]

So ArMaP, if you look at some object like the tic tac, is there any mechanical parts you can see? I dont think so, that's the same logic to me, i consider the tic tac alien as i totally believe what commander fravor reports.

That wasn't one of my best answers, most machines today do not show any moving parts.

So back to the moon object, looks round  shaped, non natural, alien look ship to me. What else it could be? Does not look like a hill to me at all. Call that a hill sounds like mike west calling the tic tacs seagulls, but that's just my opinion.

Round? It's as round as the hill closer to the camera.

Fravor says among other things, there were 5 other objects in a V formation. He accounts of a friend who told him of an event where an USO-type object "sucked in" a torpedo and went under the sea. They never recovered the torpedo, etc...

And that's completely irrelevant to what we were talking about.