Undo's Super Gripe

[undo11]

Okay, I think it's time I made a thread on the subject of religion so that other members can understand my position on it, and perhaps think a moment before saying something.

My first really big gripe is, i see all this negative press and the constant complaining about religion and religious people, as a lead up to a massacre of "biblical proportions".   Don't, not even for five seconds, think that while you're saying you care about me and what happens to me, and then turn around and say the exact opposite, that i'm not paying attention.  I am.   I know the difference between "We love ya man," and "We think we're better than you because you're religious." 

Also, since we're on the subject, what's with all the finger pointing at religion every time a religious person does something stupid or against their own rules?  IT'S THEIR RULES, NOT YOURS. sheesh, cripes all mighty.  Haven't we learned FROM THE MISTAKES OF RELIGION, that micromanaging everyones screw ups and demanding they behave more appropriately (so loosely defined that it's a craps shoot whether your version of what's okay will even remotely resemble someone else's), is an exercise in tyranny?  I have my own brain, thank you.  don't you??

   The religion a person has,  has nothing to do with their poor decisions.  If a person's entire world view, could be blamed for their day to day behaviors, we'd all be up sht's creek without a paddle (and yes, i said a potty word. alert the press, for crying out loud).  Also, since when is it fine if other religious or non religious people have money, but not christians?  Somebody wanna explain that to me?   Pretty much anybody else on the planet can have money but give a christian some moolah and it's OH MY GOD blah blah blah.  Who cares? 

Regardless of how bad human beings behave from time to time, what gave anybody the idea that religious people are not also humans and  just as capable as the next guy to do normal human things, like have sex, have money, etc?  Everyone else gets a pass but not religious people? Why ?  That's illogical.

If you want to see a repeat of nazi germany and stalin's genocides, just keep it up but let's drop the pretense of pretending like you actually give 2 plugged nickles, about me or my family, who are all "christians." 

le mew, le sigh, le aggravation 

[Amaterasu]

Beth, I don't get it.  Many here have no respect for religious institutions and see how they are used to manipulate People.  Just because there is contempt for religion as a whole does NOT equate to holding any believers in contempt, and that includes You.

You take it so personally.  I watch as comments are made about religion in general and in You pop with, in essence, "SO You really DON'T like Me."  That is so far from the truth.  We like and care for YOU.  Not You religion, necessarily, but YOU.

We like a lot of religious People - at least I can say *I* do.  Just because I don't think Their religion holds anything, dogma-wise, does not mean I don't see the spiritual essence come forth in Them.  I'm quite comfortable to agree to disagree.

So.  My recommendation is to stop thinking We are attacking You personally when We say things disparaging religious dogma.  Because when You do that, at least speaking for Myself, I get embarrassed for You and uncomfortable.  I nearly chose to just let this slide, rather than responding.  But, because I care, I felt I had to show where You are wrong in Your assessments of Our thoughts towards You, personally.

[undo11]

Beth, I don't get it.  Many here have no respect for religious institutions and see how they are used to manipulate People.  Just because there is contempt for religion as a whole does NOT equate to holding any believers in contempt, and that includes You.

You take it so personally.  I watch as comments are made about religion in general and in You pop with, in essence, "SO You really DON'T like Me."  That is so far from the truth.  We like and care for YOU.  Not You religion, necessarily, but YOU.

We like a lot of religious People - at least I can say *I* do.  Just because I don't think Their religion holds anything, dogma-wise, does not mean I don't see the spiritual essence come forth in Them.  I'm quite comfortable to agree to disagree.

So.  My recommendation is to stop thinking We are attacking You personally when We say things disparaging religious dogma.  Because when You do that, at least speaking for Myself, I get embarrassed for You and uncomfortable.  I nearly chose to just let this slide, rather than responding.  But, because I care, I felt I had to show where You are wrong in Your assessments of Our thoughts towards You, personally.

you know how frustrating it would be for you, if your world view was held up under the magnifying glass that religion, particularly christianity, has to go thru, based on things like, oh let's say someone who also read and agreed with the premise of the terra papers went out the next day and cheated on his spouse. no one would care.  why?  who the flip knows but i think it's because it has nothing to do with the belief in the terra papers.

now considering the terra papers are essentially the same thing as the bible, historically speaking,  discussing the same cast of characters and even suggesting by its criticisms and praises, which part of the behavior of enlil and company, we should emulate and which part we should not, does it not seem rather logical that just because yoU BELIEVE IT'S TRUE, does not mean that the behavior of somebody else who believes its true, should be used as an excuse to say it isn't true nor to say that it somehow reflects on your intellect,  if someone else who believes it, does something dumb..  suddenly the terra papers are dumb because someone who believes it, had a theory that turned out to be invalid, scientifically.

i know you know this!  and it irks me to no end that so many people have become so comfortable with this bizarre way of dealing with each other's world views.

you should acquaint or reacquaint yourself with how hitler managed to get the approval of the german people, to do what he did to jewish people.   

what part of I DON'T WANT TO DIE, don't you get?

[rdunk]

Undo, it is late here in Texas, so this will be short for now, but I will have more to say, tomorrow.  You said a lot, and I understand your feelings. For you, I say, just "know" and remember, "we are in the World". As  a Christian, you should know what that means for us, in terms of what to expect. Nothing you said is a surprise to me, for we see it plainly , in some fashion, almost every day.

So, just know that the peace that passes all understanding is there for you, in and through the Comforter that lives in you. So quit worrying, relax, and put Him first. Then all else will take on the right perspective!

Good night! More comment tomorrow! 

[Amaterasu]

I can only speak for Myself, but from My perspective, there are as many paths as there are Conscious Beings in relating to the spirit within.  Though dogma runs common in many groups, and I'm talking any dogma, be it Wiccan, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Shinto, or (to steal from National Lampoon) Cosmic Muffin, any who take the common principles of caring for One anOther, trying to maintain honesty and dignity, acceptance and Love...  Those are the Ones whose path is righteous.

There are Those who would condemn Me for failing to believe the dogma They carry, who would not treat Me as They would have Me treat Them, and They are Ones I don't much like, but I do not take it personally.

There is a difference between feeling contempt for the machinations of Those who would control Others through dogma, and wanting the believers put to death.  There is a great spiritual awakening, and though some hate groups are out there, most of Us are learning tolerance for Others, regardless of the dogma carried.  As long as the basic spiritual principles are held, acceptance and Love are given.

Yes, Hitler used religious beliefs as a way to divide and conquer, but We are aware now, more than ever, and will fight that should it come forth with any power at all.

[undo11]

it already did come forth. it's been coming forth since the time of jesus.  i was just reading what is happening and has been happening to the sudanese christians.  holey rusted metal batman, it's bad.  if the female christians refuse to denounce their religion, they are gang-raped, their breasts cut off and then they are left to die.   in one example, an entire group of christians were herded into a tent at gun point, and then the tent was run over by a 50 ton russian tank.

millions, perhaps billions of people have died either as a result of their religion or lack thereof, or as a result of refusing to give up their religion.  this stuff is still happening today, in fact, it's happening all the time, with increasing frequency as the time nears the "depopulation plan."

if you survive it, just mark and remember my words:  once competing groups have done the dirty work of killing off their rivals, they'll be blamed and executed next.  this is how it will go down.

[Littleenki]

First of all, Beth, any comment made by myself is never aimed toward you, and I heartily respect your position on Christianity.
As it is also very noticeable for anyone who is here at Prc, that you believe what you believe for all the right reasons.
You, and Rdunk I presume are two shining lights in a sea of darkenss, and if more Christians were like you two, this thread would be moot.
As Amy said, any comments here are not directed at or pertaining to your level of faith, and never will be.

Now, as this thread is about religion, it is a proper posting place for a few facts about religion.

Naming names, or pointing fingers at any single individual in the process of defining a GOOD Christian isnt necessary, as a GOOD Christian is obvious. They are balanced and kind with a great deal of control and forgiveness for others. They will generally be a bit meeker than the rest of folks out there, yet that is a strength in itself.
Some will join others in a church environment or a group setting, and thats where it goes wrong. Our opinions of what created us, based on whatever study and reading weve done on the Bible proper, are effectively challenged and changed through the law of averages.
If a group of different minded individuals is presented with differing theories over a period of time, they will all end up believing the final result, without realizing why.
Eventually, after sermonns aplenty, the person who had a unique idea, is averaged in with the others.

That is why the religions of the world exhibit HIVE mentality, and pounce upon the ones who disagree with them.

That is why most other religions dont agree at all, as it would be paramount to saying their's is wrong.

That is why any independent thought is typically discouraged in certain religions and a solid doctrine is induced.

To define the word hypocrisy doesnt require a dictionary or such.
Hypocrisy is when someone says or believes something as doctrine, and then goes out and violates that very doctrine with impunity.

It's what makes a mouse out of a man, and turns every person's effort at that church into a waste of time. Any furtherment of the spirit has been effectively canceled out by the offending action, and Hypocrisy is defined in the context of religion.

That is why they invented forgiveness.
For even one mistake to be made in Jesus' time was dangerous at best, and the fanatics were rampant at all levels of religion, yet today, one can do unspeakable acts within the confines of the very church itself, and walk free after confession.
In a nutshell, this is absurd and ludicrous and strikes at the very core of a Christian heart. A heart that starts out good, and is clouded by peer pressure and many other bad inputs, creating a religious person who is able to sin, and get a patch done from the church.
No human should have that power to decide for any other human, and thats what religion does, is tell you what to do, believe, how to act, and where to put the tithe money.
So, we come to money.....something that never has affected religious views....yeah right! Enough on that, as I could type all day!

Typically, the religious folks have also been the basis of many wars and atrocities in the name of their "god"
When you look at many of our own patches and symbolic military decals, there is the in god we trust phrase, that defines hypocrisy again. As we drop bombs and murder innocent people in the name of whatever reason it is this time, we do it with the firm belief that God is watching and approving.
NOT!
The middle east is a perfect example of this violent dysfunction that pervades ALL religion,and is the magnet for our aggressions.A reason of the day to kill and violate the very commandments we supposedly live by.

Christianity in the mainstream is just another tool for them to control those who will follow like so many sheep.
Of course Christianity is based on goodness and forgiveness, so it is the least offensive of the worlds religions, or is it?

I, as a person of sound whatever, put people into two catagories.
Those who follow, and those who lead, and any effort put into someone elses doctrines or decipherments of the bible's words is a waste of time.

Heres the thing, Undo...YOU have put that effort in, and so has Rdunk I presume, and I find both of you to be very, very clear in your beliefs without pushiness or attempts to convince me of anything.
Both you guys get my deepest respect for your new approach to Christianity, and I have to say, kudos to you both!

I will continue to believe there was a universal creator at some point in our lifeline, and leave it at that, while trying to live up to Jesus true teachings, and not some convoluted version of one of the million offshots of Christianity there seem to be today.
My mind-My understanding-My belief
Thats the holy trinity that defines us all as life beings!

Thanks for the ear, and thanks for being who YOU are, Undo, a very cool gal, who is very high on my list in every way.
And a TRUE Christian, as well!
Cheers!
Dave

[undo11]

LE,

well from what i can tell the universe itself was created by super massive black holes. but your dna was created by enki, i'm pretty sure.  he was one of these

see three attached photos

and i think he was jesus, for several reasons, starting first with jesus referring to himself as the serpent raised on moses' staff to bring healing to the people.

this is kinda corny, has the church piano music in the background, but the guy is talking about enki's handiwork and doesn't even know it.  specifically a protein called laminin, which apparently plays a role in holding our bodies together.

[undo11]

here's a pic (scientific diagram) of laminin (see attached. click on it to enlarge)

[Littleenki]

Very cool mind candy, Undo! Ill be going at that info later, and yes, I believe Jesus was Enki, and did what you say, thats why I named my screen avatar Littleenki, as I try to follow his wonderful teaching s as closely as I can.
Cheers, andhappy sunday!
Le

[undo11]

an even better example
(click on attached image)

[undo11]

Very cool mind candy, Undo! Ill be going at that info later, and yes, I believe Jesus was Enki, and did what you say, thats why I named my screen avatar Littleenki, as I try to follow his wonderful teaching s as closely as I can.
Cheers, andhappy sunday!
Le

did you watch the video?  kinda interesting, although typical sermon cadence and atmosphere, if you listen to what he's saying and not necessarily how he says it.  we get hung up on our perceptions and prejudices.   i should know. i use to think ancient wisdom teachings were evil personified, till i found out that ancient wisdom is not ancient mystery.  just some folks decided to hide it.  according to zorgon, the rationale for hiding it is that if everyone knew, it would be horribly abused, and the whole place, planet and all its critters and people, would've self-destructed a long time ago.

[undo11]

btw , this example (see and click on attached pic) is from ancient mesopotamia!

..........  

not sure how anyone could see this stuff and not at least ask the question, "how did ancient mesopotamians know this stuff, thousands of years before "modern" medicine?"

[undo11]

the word that creates all living things:


in the beginning was the word and the word was with god, and the word was god.  the word was made flesh and dwelt among men.  (that's a verse from the new testament, talking about jesus). 

far from being an ancient book for prejudice old geezers, in fact, it's proving to be a scientific manual in medical, quantum physical, metaphorical and spiritual languages.

[undo11]

note the date on this. warning:  video of nigerian christians, men women and children, burnt to death, hacked to death, shot, and otherwise murdered.  also, quite a bit of suffering being vocalized by the people who have lived to endure the loss and inhumanity of it.  i realize people are frustrated with religion and/or christianity, but good freakn' grief people. this is over the freakin' top.